Hey everybody, I'm new here. I own a 77 dodge Power Wagon, but am looking at buying a 89 Dodge Daytona ES with the 2.5L turbo. Now I know this is a good engine with lots of power from the factory, but I was wonderin if someone could give me a list of parts or mods for more power. Also include price and where I can find the item please.
Thanks to everybody that replies.

And heres a pic of my dodge if anybody is interested.

Well the first thing I would do is swap the head from your 2.5L with a 2.2L for more power. You will also want to find and intercooler from a Turbo II motor. There are plenty of mods but I need to know if you plan to stick with the 2.5L.

Why? whats the matter with the 2.5? I know you can't rev it as high, but what else? I didn't buy the car, I was looking at it because its for sale and I was wondering if it is a good car to modify. So should I find one with a 2.2L? I'm not really sure yet, but I'm also looking at a 1973 Duster I might want to buy instead. I got the perfect engine built for it sitting in my garage, but I wouldn't mind the fuel economy of a 4 banger for a change. I'm used to getting around 5 MPG, so with 20+ that would be heaven for me. LOL

I know the feeling, I went from a Jeep to my GTC with the Turbo II. I got an average of around 25 - 30MPG with the GTC. You could expect around the same. That is unless I decided to get happy with the gas.

As for the 2.5L engine, there is nothing wrong with it. The engine you have in that Daytona is a called the Turbo I. It has a 2.5L I4 with a non intercooled Garrett T3 turbo. It produces 150HP and 200 ft/lbs of torque. The 2.2L was an I4 as well except it had an intercooled Garrett T3 and produced around "a said" 174HP and 200 ft/lbs of torque. I have found differently though. Just check my sig for info on that of the LeBaron info thread in this forum.

The 2.5L is the same block as the 2.2L. The onjly differece is the head. They are both great engines to modify. If you do plan to modify it you will want to get your hands on either the A-555 or A568 tranaxle. Lert me know what you plan to do and I can load you down with info on modding your Daytona.

:)

So I need a head from a older 2.2? Like 84-86? Are the 2.2 heads less restrictive? And also, if you know, could you tell me the stock valve sizes please.
I passed up a deal for a 86 Chrysler Laser Turbo 1, are those years better than 89-90?
What is an A-555 or A-568 tranaxle?

1. You will want the 2.2L head off of a Turbo II engine. Best would be to find one from 88-89. You can get them off any Chrysler, Plymouth, or Dodge with the Turbo II.

2. I am not sure of the valve sizes. I have never machined my heads. I'll ask around for you though.

3. The Laser with the Turbo 1 is mechanically identical to the Daytona you are looking at. An 88-90 would be better years. If you can find them.

4. The A-555 and A-568 are two different manual transaxles. They are racing transmissions that came stock on any Turbo II "A-555" or Turbo VI "A-568" car from Chrysler. They were designed by Chrysler and built by Getrag of Germany. They are heavy duty and reinforced.

1. Cool, I can get one from a junkyard then
2. Thanks
3. OK
4. So those tranny's will drop right in if I find one? Axles too?

Thanks again

1. Yes, but you take a chance of getting a bad head. Who knows how the person took care of the car. You can find them online, or if you want to pay an arm and a leg you can get them from the dealership.

4. It should, is the car an auto?

Originally posted by Polygon
1. Yes, but you take a chance of getting a bad head. Who knows how the person took care of the car. You can find them online, or if you want to pay an arm and a leg you can get them from the dealership.

4. It should, is the car an auto?

Hmm, thats true. I've seen them online, I guess online is the best way to go.
Yeah its a manual, I hate auto! LOL
So can you give me some kinda list saying what stuff to get, where to get it, and how much?
I wanna be somewhere around atleast 200 WHP, or however much you can get out of the stock shortblock. But I do wanna stick with the 2.5L.
Thanks

You can get A LOT more 200 WHP out of that engine. I'll work up some stuff once I get back from vacation.

Originally posted by Polygon
You can get A LOT more 200 WHP out of that engine. I'll work up some stuff once I get back from vacation.

I mean from the stock short block - no rebuild either.
Thanks, no rush

Hey Polygon, I came across an 87 Pacifica Daytona today. It has 2.2L turbo 1, is this better than the 89 with the 2.5L T1? Anyway, this 87 is in much better condition so I think I'm going to get this one instead.
One other question, what will going from the stock 7 PSI, to 12 PSI do horsepower wise? Like how much gain? I was looking at FWDperformance.com and they have a lot of cool stuff. I was thinking of getting this stuff-
Full 2.5" exhaust, incuding downpipe, cat, and dynomax muffler
ECU upgrade stage 1
KN filter
Magnicore plug wires
Champion plugs
Bigger injectors
and a 190 LPH fuel pump (or will the 255 be better?)
How much power will all these mods make it, since stock is 146 HP i'm thinking atleast 170, maybe 180.
Also, will I need a BOV with the 12 PSI? Is there a stock one?
Thanks for all your help, I really appreciate it.:)

Uh oh, nevermind. I did a CarFax report on that 87 Pacifica, the car had 185,000 miles in 2001 when it was changed to the 7th owner! Thats too bad cuz this car is in like mint condition outside and interior. I'm sure it's much over 200K miles now. It's a digital speedo and it was tampered with so it said 0 miles. This car also has like every available option possible besides auto trans, power everything, and it had a boost gauge which I never saw on any Daytona either.
I still would like to know about all those mods for the 89 Daytona I was talking about earlier, only 3" exhaust instead of 2.5.

The 2.2L would have been the better way to go, but with that many miles you are better off with the Daytona. You would have to rebuld the engine, plus, odometer tampering. I wouldn't trust those people as far as I could throw them.

I'll get that list of sites up for you tomorrow. There are a lot of people out there that are more experienced at this than I, they would be far better to ask, besides they are the people that I've learned most of this stuff from.

Originally posted by Polygon

I'll get that list of sites up for you tomorrow. There are a lot of people out there that are more experienced at this than I, they would be far better to ask, besides they are the people that I've learned most of this stuff from.

TIA for the list.
Well, no one else is replying to my post but you, so I'll pick your brain for now!

Hey I test drove that 87 and it was mechanically great. No smoke whatsoever when it started up - I stood at the back when the guy started it up - it was cold and not warmed up.
It needs CV joints or something cuz it wobbles off the line and makes a clunk sound when you hit a bump. But I made him a rediculously low offer and he actually considered it for a second, so I gave him my number and said call me if you don't sell it.
My brother is a mechanic and he said watch for smoke when he starts it up cuz of the turbo seals going out or something like that. He works on Caterpillar Diesels so it's the same thing only a much smaller scale turbine. He also rebuild the engine in my Power Wagon, my dad's pickup, and my dad's van - so he works with gas engines too not just Diesels. He knows his stuff. He also hates the 2.2's and 2.5's, he said the head gaskets go out every 40K miles. Well, I know the car probably has over 200K on it cuz the carfax I did reported 185K when the title was transferred to its latest owner. And the guy at the dealership sounded ownest, like he said when he got the car the digital display didn't light up at all. So he sent it out to try to have it fixed, but he had to get one from a junkyard. And he was pretty upfront in saying he didn't know much about the car, it was pretty easy to tell that he didn't without him saying it too.

Oh and one other thing, I was watching the boost gauge and it never went past 5 PSI. I'm assuming the wastegate is opening early? Is this just a vacuum problem or something else more serious?

Well, any bi-metal engine will be prone to head gasket issues because the head will expand faster than the block. My head gasket blew at around 140,000 miles. It all depends on how the car was taken care of. I still drove the car pretty hard but she was taken care of, so don't worry about the head gasket.

As for the boost, it sounds like it is probably a simple vacuum leak, but I can't be sure. The turbo has an internal wastegate to bleed the boost pressure.

Oh it has an iron block? I thought it was all aluminum.
The car was very well maintained, the interior is almost mint condition. The headliner is falling a little and the drivers side door panel pulls away from the door a little when you close it cuz of the screw is stripped out thats supposed to hold the panel on.
yeah i figured it was a vacuum leak. Isn't there someway to increase boost to like 9 PSI or something? I think it's called boost bleed off. How is this done?
One other thing, how much boost can the stock cast pistons handle?

Hey guess what, the guy called me today and accepted my offer. He wanted to dicker a little but I said I wasn't giving any more, and he still finally said OK. Looks like I'm buying an 87 Dodge Daytona!

OK I've had it for a couple days, and I love it! This car is awesome. It has so many power options I forget where some of them are half of the time. Buttons, buttons, buttons, everywhere! Oh and I found out one other thing, the backing behind the boost gauge needle was stopping it from moving past 5 PSI, so it's fine and has full boost. This car is very powerful for a 4 cylinder, but I'm used big block V8's, so what are some things I can do to make it faster? I'm planning on first getting a KN filter, then I want to do do that solenoid bleed thing- how is this done? It increases boost a couple PSI, I guess by putting a check valve in the vacuum line.?

Oh and one more thing, when I take off it feels like the wheels are wobbling and sometimes when I hit a bump I hear a semi-loud thud/crack-it's kinda hard to explain and it only happens on the passenger side. My brother says its the wheel bearings, and he thinks the CV joints are OK. I also get a rumble at higher speeds, like 50-60 MPH.

Yeah, back then they didn't use all aluminum because it was to weak to use as the bottom end of the engine, but it worked fin for the head. A lot of cars are still bi-metal engines.

I would suggest getting a K&N air filter simply so you don't have to keep buying new ones, but I like the Apex-i cleanable air filter better.

As for the wobble and clunking. It could be the wheel bearing, it could be the CV joint, or it could be the strut. It could be any one of those. You can check the CV joint and wheel bearing to see if they are bad. If they aren't then you have a bad strut.

Well, here are those sites I was telling you about. The first one will tell you about that solenoid bleed, the second has performance upgrade options, and the third has a lot of cheap things you can do to get more speed.

This first site is the Dodge Garage. They guy who created and runs the site owns a Plymouth Reliant that runs 10s in the 1/4. See the sidebar for all the links to hop up ideas that you'll need. He also has some fun stuff you can buy.

Donovan's Dodge Garage. (http://www.thedodgegarage.com)

This next site is called Forward Motion. They specialize in upgrade stages to make you FWD Mopar go really fast.

Forward Motion Inc. (http://www.forwardmotioninc.com/)

This last one is created and run buy a guy I know personally that owns an Omni GLH that he calls the Omnivore, he also makes 12 second mini-vans. His site has a lot of things you can do for a low cost to make your car faster.

Dempsey Bowling's Homepage. (http://www.xmission.com/~dempsey/)

Hope those help you out.

Thanks

Question: How much gain will there be per pound of boost? And what is the max non-intercooled boost I can run with 93 octane pump gas? I plan on adding an intercooler, so also how much intercooled boost can I run without detenation on pump gas?

OK I took my car to the garage I go to, they said it was the wheel bearing. So thats cool, a lot cheaper than if the CV's went out or the strut needed replaced. So it's gettin fixed tomorrow.
How about those questions I asked before? By my calculations another pound of boost will give me about 5-7 HP, does that sound right? And how much can I run on 93 octane, non-intercooled and intercooled?
Oh and one other question, why did I read on one of those sites that if you wanted to intercool and pull through, you need to get a push through style intake manifold and throttle body? Why does that need to change? Can't I just run a line to a FMIC and back to the intake manifold? I don't see why you would need to touch the throttle body, unless to take it off cuz it's in the way, then put it back on.:confused:
Thanks for your help again.

For each pound of boost you run you can expect a 5-10 HP gain, anywhere inbetween there. As for the intercooler, I wouldn't run over 10 PSI until you get the intercooler installed. I forget, did this one come with the 2.2L Turbo I or the 2.5L Turbo I?

Originally posted by Polygon
For each pound of boost you run you can expect a 5-10 HP gain, anywhere inbetween there. As for the intercooler, I wouldn't run over 10 PSI until you get the intercooler installed. I forget, did this one come with the 2.2L Turbo I or the 2.5L Turbo I?

It's the 2.2L.
Only 10 PSI? The chip that I was planning to get that is "stage 1" ups it to 12 PSI.
So why do they say to change to a turbo 2 intake and TB if you want to intercool a pull through design?

I am not too sure about that. You might want to e-mail Dempsey Bowling about that. The only difference between your Turbo I and the Turbo II is the intercooler. It is the same turbo running less boost and no intercooler. I don't see why you would need to change that and have never heard that you have to.

Originally posted by Polygon
I don't see why you would need to change that and have never heard that you have to.

Thats good.
I heard that the radiators were different to make room for the IC. So just getting a factory IC from a T2 wouldn't fit. So I was thinking of getting a FMIC from spearco, and a universal install kit.
So you don't think I can run 12 PSI on 93 octane? What if I put in octane boost till I get the IC? I really want to get that ECU so it will give boost below 3000 RPM. It sucks off the line, as would any turbo car, but this more so cuz the computer doesn't allow boost before 3K RPM. I really want the extra power too:)
I was also going to get the KN cone filter, what do you suggest I can use to make my own custom tubing? I was also going to just cut off the muffler and put a straightpipe in temporarily to free up the exhaust until I get money to get full 2.5" exhaust.

Well, the problem with running high boost with no intercooler isn't the octane of your fuel, it is a problem with heat. The air is just so hot that it causes detonation. Running 120 octane won't help you there. I wouldn't run over 10 until you get the FMIC.

Spearco makes good intercoolers, I would suggest a air to water if you can afford it. As for the air filter, I would go with the K&N, but I really like Apex-i's cleanable filer as well. More money, but I feel it is better.

As for your exhaust. I would get a full 3". Turbos just love to breath, and a straight through would help a lot.

Originally posted by Polygon
I would suggest a air to water if you can afford it. As for the air filter, I would go with the K&N, but I really like Apex-i's cleanable filer as well. More money, but I feel it is better.

As for your exhaust. I would get a full 3". Turbos just love to breath, and a straight through would help a lot.

Where can I get an air/water intercooler - never seen one for sale.

I was going to get a KN cone filter, but what can I use for piping that will bend so I can make it a cold air intake?

2.5" straightpipe isn't enough? 3'' just seems rediculous to me, maybe it isn't?

Originally posted by PWMAN


Where can I get an air/water intercooler - never seen one for sale.

I was going to get a KN cone filter, but what can I use for piping that will bend so I can make it a cold air intake?

2.5" straightpipe isn't enough? 3'' just seems rediculous to me, maybe it isn't?

Spearco makes one but it is close to $2,000. It is what I am putting in the GTC project. Since water has better heat tranfer the air will be cooler. Ait to air is good and it costs a lot less as well. I just prefer air to water.

You would have to find a kit. Most people just take the stock air cleaner off and put the filet on the end of that. Doesn't make for a true CAI. You would have to either find a kit that you could use or have someone make one for you.

It might seem that way but it is ideal for a turbo to have a full 3" exhaust. It just lets it breath sooo much better. That is what I am going to do on my GTC project car.

Originally posted by Polygon


Spearco makes one but it is close to $2,000. It is what I am putting in the GTC project. Since water has better heat tranfer the air will be cooler. Ait to air is good and it costs a lot less as well. I just prefer air to water.

You would have to find a kit. Most people just take the stock air cleaner off and put the filet on the end of that. Doesn't make for a true CAI. You would have to either find a kit that you could use or have someone make one for you.


Yeah I think air/air is good enough for me. I don't forsee going past 14 PSI. Going past 14 PSI melts the stock pistons anyway.

Before the airbox, along side the fender there is a another box the air passes through with a bunch of wires connected to it - What is that and what will happen if I disconnect it to put the KN filter on? I think it's like the stock CAI kinda thing but it looks like it's some kinda air temp sensor. ???

Got another question, I'm planning on changing to a 180 thermostat. Will this help with the heat issue, by lowering the temp of the entire engine? It sure does get hot under that hood. I know the fan will still not kick on until 195, so it will technically ''overheat''(but not really, thats what it was originally) until the fan kicks on or I get moving again.
Putting this thermostat in won't crack the head will it? I mean, if it's up to about 200 and that cold water comes rushing in cooling the head down at a rapid rate. I know it's bad to have something cool down quickly, a vice versa heating up causes metal to crack. But will only 20 degrees do that? I thought it was only extreme changes in temp cracks things, but tell me if I'm wrong. I'm not in stopped traffic very often at all, but I'd like to know anyway. That ECU i'm going to get says ''revised fan schedule for better cooling'', does that means it will kick the fan on sooner? Cuz that would be great if it does. Thanks.

As far as the air box goes, does the engine bay look like this?

http://images.cardomain.com/member_img_a/220000-220999/220444_3_full.jpg

And for the thermostat, it shouldn't be a problem. That water won't be cold when it comes rushing in. The difference in temperature isn't that much to cause a problem. I think it would be a good idea to have the fan kick on sooner. You don't want the engine to run too cold though, you want it running in the normal operating temperature, but 185 should be fine.

No my air box doesn't look like that. It's grey in color, and only has a pipe connected to the side of it - not in the front to get the cold air induction. If you hang on about 20 minutes I will go outside and take some pics, and post them. Be right back.

OK here we go. On the left is the airbox, to the right is the CAI box thingy I was talking about.

Yeah OK I didn't know it was going to turn out that huge of a picture. Oh well, heres a pic of my baby.

OK I made a custom intake from an Integra short ram. I hacked about 6 inches off so it would fit. It sounds good. I haven't really noticed any peformance gains, must only be a couple HP. I guess cuz it gets so hot under there. Well, maybe it will be a little better once I install the 180 thermostat. Next major mod is the exhaust. Actually, I need new CV's, axles, and struts. So that first before I break down and need towed. I'm actually thinking of getting those MOPAR motor mounts, they say that helps not breaking the axles, is this true.

BTW, I found out that that thing in the intake is called the ''power module''. IT controls a few things like the fan.

This is a solution that in computers we know and they have started to do this in cars. Find and use a copper headgasket. Copper is the cheapest and most effective way to transfer/displace heat. They may have them around for the 2.5/2.2l 4's in your car. I used to own a 2.5l dodge shadow ES. Here is the difference in the 2.2 and 2.5. The 2.2 has a shorter stroke thus it is more tuned for a preformer. The 2.5l has a higher torque curve cause it is a long stroke high torque engine that can and has been used in trucks too. IE: The dodge dakota 4cyl. That is the difference and it is all in the head for the models in either 87, 88, or 89 - 94 (can't remember first year put in) when chrysler went to the common block which worked with all heads. before that they had a 2.5 that had a tall block but same head as the 2.2l so remember early engines had different block. later engines had different heads. Me I have the mitsubishi engine SOHC right now in a dodge shadow ES 1994 I bought after I wrecked my 1992 dodge shadow ES 2.5l. The mitsubishi is the same bottom half that sits in both the 3000gt and the dodge stealth (the 6G72). My 5 speed transmission is the Getrag A543 and I want to find the Getrag A568 or A555 to see if it will match up to this engine considering both these transmission have sat in the same types of cars 4 cyl or v6. I need these either one of these transmissions for my project cause they are the only ones I can think that can handle what I am going to do. I am going to make my engine the same as the Mitsubishi 3000gt vr 4's, twin turbo! either that or I may go with the 3000gt's 6 speed transmission in recent years. but I'd rather have the getrag. I need some help locating this transmission. Can someone help?

Thanks

I've heard the 568 is much easier to shift, and shorter throws too. But it is a pain in the ass to install. The 555 is probably stronger, but I'm not positive about that. I just know that when someone gets into making serious power with the 2.2 or 2.5 turbo cars, they go with the 555. You can find them on EBAY every now and then, but the go for a lot of $$$. Otherwise, a 568 you might be able to find in a junkyard, it's a lot easier to find then a 555. I am waiting, very patiently, for a 555. I will only buy when a good opportunity comes up. IMO keep the Getrag, not the stealth tranny. Getrags were made for serious power, and it would take too much fabrication to put a stealth tranny in.

You have whats commonly called the suck through intake design (early TI '84-'87). Meaning the turbo sucks air through the throttle body. As opposed to the blow through late TI and TII style. Where the turbo blows through the throttle body. To intercool the suck through design requires comstom modification of the intake. And even then is inferior because it flows less and stacks boost at 16 psi. Best to convert to the blow through design if you want to intercool.

There are only two turbo dodge heads used on these cars (not including DOHC). The G head 84-85 and the 782 86-up. The G head flows a little better, 6-7% i believe, therefore makes a little more power. The 782 however makes more torq. I say stick with the stock head and get a 88-up roller tbi cam and roller follwers. More agressive cam and much smoother than the slider cam.

14 psi is not a problem on a non-intercooled set up. Never had probs with my old suck through design. If you wanna be cheap, ditch the custom cal idea, and go for the manual boost controller instead(about $20). If you want boost past 14 psi, look into a water/alcohol injection setup. One can be made VERY cheap. Or the always better solution, convert to the newer style intake and intercool.

Your car also should have the A520. Basicly a A555 without the hardend gears. Get a chrome moly end plate and it will be plenty stout.

Enjoy your new found power,

Bob

The A-568 is exactly the same as a A-555. It simply has a different shift pattern, shifter, and better syncros. They are both designed by Chrysler and built by Getrag of Germany. I am sticking with the A-568 for my GTC project. I might have an A-555 from my 89 GTC if you guys are interested.

Also the A-555 and A-568 were only used on the 2.2L and 2.5L never on the V6. Also don't waste you time with the twin turbo setup. The Stealth's twin turbo setup is flawed and twin turbos on a four cylinder would be very inefficient. Stick with a large single turbo like a T03/T04 hybrid.

Originally posted by Polygon
I might have an A-555 from my 89 GTC if you guys are interested.



How much do you want for it?
And are you willing to ship to PA? I don't know where you live, if not too far I could drive.:confused:

I'm in Alpine Utah. It is between Provo and Salt Lake City. I have no problem shipping, you would just have to pay for it. I don't have the transaxle right now, but I plan to buy my engine from the salvage yard my 89 GTC is at. I just want to make someone wants the transaxle before I buy it back. I'll call them on Monday to see how much it will cost.

how much does an A555 tranny go for?