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Lots of problems


DB Coops
12-29-2009, 12:58 PM
Hey guys, new here. Been checking out the site for a couple days trying to figure out whats wrong with my car. Lots of good info.

The biggest problem I have right now is my car won't start. I've tried jumping it, didn't work. We checked the battery and it was running around 130-140 amps if I remember right. When I turn the key, it either clicks a couple times or "growls" and dies out. Before it died, when I would be driving down the road my headlights would dim, as would all the dash lights. Also every once in a while (once every couple weeks) it would take about 5 minutes of turning the key to turn the car on. No clicks or anything, electrical stuff worked, just wouldn't fire up.

I read that the alternator could be the problem, but my mechanical abilities are limited to changing the oil. I just ordered this alternator
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/OLDSMOBILE-INTRIGUE-ALTERNATOR-V6-3-5L-214-1999-2000_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem3a4c76b415QQitemZ2 50390950933QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAcc essories#ht_1508wt_939
and will try and replace mine with the help of my buddy and his garage.

Question is: Could the alternator be the problem? Or is it the ignition switch? Any help would be very appreciated.

edit: 2000 Intrigue GLS, 155000 miles, 3.5 V6
Thanks
Dan

mustanger999
12-29-2009, 02:09 PM
It's gotta be the alternator. It's also very easy to change.

carbon02
12-29-2009, 06:22 PM
DB Coops-- How old is the battery? I had similar dimming issues for over a year, and just assumed it was a common issue with the electrical air pump pulling down the battery. Just replaced the battery, and the positive terminal was corroded to the point where it pulled out of the battery.

"Battery tested at 130-140 amps?" That's a bad battery when it's rated for 770CCA, that would be my concern.

Clicking a few times when trying to start the car I believe is the starter relay clicking, but at either case I'd guess your starting at low voltage. The alternator isn't contributing anything yet, on a cold start.

The alternator on a 3.5L isn't that easy of a job, especially now in a Minnesota garage, unless your talking about a garage that has more than a space heater!

I don't know if there's any tricks, but alternator removal requires battery, and battery tray removal, draining of the cooling system, removal of the thermostat, and removal of the cooling system fan assembly to get enough room.

If there's any doubt about the battery I'd personally try that first. I don't think the alternator is beyond your capabilities, but it's not on top like the 3.8L and won't be a really fast swap.

steffenk
12-29-2009, 07:39 PM
One easy check is the positive battery cable. Every 4 yrs, mine builds up enough corrosion to cause starting problems. Last winter, I had dimming headlights while driving (esp. w. engine under bigger load). One morning, the car would not start - just a click. The interior lights/dash lights/door locks all worked; I think the door chime was weak. I had to pull the battery to get at the positive cable and pull the cable out of its protective rubber sleeve. I soaked it in water/baking soda mixture and cleaned with a wire brush. This fixed the starting problem, which has not come back.

LittleHoov
12-29-2009, 08:01 PM
I dont see how a bad alternator could cause a car not to start, that just doesnt add up.

Id lean toward a battery, poor cable connections, or as you stated the ignition switch could be a culprit.

The clicks and growls would seem to indicate that the starting circuit is being completed, just that there isnt enough juice there to make things happen.

Do you have a flashing Security light when it wont turn over?

Easiest thing you can do is just what steffenk said, pull your battery cables off, push out that center bolt and slide the boots off, make sure its clean, then make sure everything is tight. Heck make sure everything is tight to begin with.

Word of warning though, the battery cable bolts have a really small head on them which strips easily, make sure you have something you can use as a backup if the head strips off. I use a pair of channel lock pliers and get ahold of the whole bolt myself as mine were stripped out many moons ago.

I would make sure you can return that alternator, start with the simple and free stuff then work your way up. Simple/free things would be the battery cables and having the battery load tested (should be free at most chain auto parts stores). A new battery is a much cheaper and easier install than an alternator, and have a sneaky feeling its probably not the alternator, because correct me if im wrong but once your car starts running it stays running until you turn off the key right? You mentioed the dimming headlights and dashlights and sadly thats considered normal for these cars, mine does it on occasion, as does probably every car here with a 3.5 and stock alternator.

DB Coops
12-30-2009, 10:27 PM
Thanks for the replies.

We did try to clean the terminals a few days with the soda / water mix and wire brush. The terminals were a little dirty, but nothing too bad. It didn't help. The battery can't be more than 3 years old either. If it was the battery, wouldn't jumping it have worked?

I keep my car stored outside all winter. Being in college and living with 2 other guys and no garage, means she has to gather snow all winter. I suppose I could tow it to my buddies heated garage and let it sit for a while and then try jumping it again.

The alternator does have a 14 day return policy, made sure of that, just in case it isn't the alternator. Not too worried about the install, my buddy with the garage has been putting small race cars together for a few years and knows his way around cars.

So you think its either the battery or the alternator then? Not the starter or ignition?

Thanks,
Dan

LittleHoov
12-30-2009, 11:10 PM
Well as for the battery, its not that difficult to remove, you can take it and have it load tested. I had a battery fail that was less than 3 years old also. It needs to be load tested to really be sure that its not a problem.

I suppose you also can't overlook the fact that it could be the starter thats causing your starting problems.

Have you checked the voltage at the battery with the car both off and running? This is easy to do with a multimeter, voltage should be between 12 and 13 with the car off...usually closer to 14 with it running, there are exact specs floating around somewhere Im sure.

bsansa
12-31-2009, 12:02 PM
New batteries can develop a bad cell at any time. I would have it load tested and not just the quick and dirty test that places like Wal-mart will do. You need to know if the battery you have will take and hold a charge. If you don't do that first then you're throwing money at it and it's going to cost you.

Tobey
01-01-2010, 03:38 AM
Ok, if you install a new alternator, I can guarantee you'll be exactly where you are now. It isn't going to do a damn thing if the car won't start in the first place. It should have started when you jumped it, unless your battery has something so horribly wrong that it's shorted and drawing all the power.

I'd try someone else's battery first (doesn't even have to fit-- just have the same terminals). If that didn't work, I'd move onto the starter. The growling sound could be sign it's got a bad solenoid and not engaging with the engine properly.

Could also be the ignition switch or neutral safety switch, but you should be able to rule those out by bypassing the relay at the starter (search google for "starter motor test").

Ruley73
01-02-2010, 02:01 AM
I'd first check your battery cables. Make sure all connections are tight/clean. The dimming lights (if it was a gradual dimming from bright to dark; not intermittantly darker or brighter than normal - discussed further in next paragraph) and subsequent slow/no cranking do seem to indicate a classic alternator failure. A bad alternator obviously wouldn't be charging the battery like it should so that's why you'd be having trouble starting the car.

Dimming lights are only normal if they dim temporaily when a relatively high load is suddenly applied to the electrical system and otherwise should not occur often under most conditions on most cars. A particular condition does cause dimming of the lights on these cars, but an alternator with a revised design was installed after mid-2001 to prevent that from occurring.

When you say that you think the battery was running around 130-140 Amps this doesn't make sense. A typical automatic battery load tester (such as those used at the parts stores) usually performs a load test that monitors the voltage of the battery when it is subjected to a series of predetermined loads based on the battery's CCA rating (and sometimes battery temperature depending on the tester) for a predetermined amount of time. The load is usually applied 2 or 3 times for about 10 seconds each time. Generally speaking if the voltage remains steady and above ~10.6V during these load tests the battery is usually considered good by the tester.

The amperage output is usually only measured when load testing an alternator. The 130-140 amps does sound like what the amperage output of the alternator should be for your car. It is a little higher than the alternator's 125 Amp rating, but this is not bad and it is possible for the alternator to test a little above its rating. Assuming the diode pattern and output voltage was good, an automated load tester would likely consider this a good alternator. If that is the case your problem lies elsewhere within the electrical system. AutoZone can also benchtest an alternator if you remove it.

It would be wise to recharge the battery with a battery charger before installing a new/remanufactered alternator. AutoZone also recharges batteries for free within an hour or two hours if the battery is cold.

If you end up needing a new battery too, get one with a rating of 690 CCA (OEM battery rating) or higher.

Good luck

DB Coops
01-02-2010, 03:49 AM
Finally got it started. Can't thank you guys enough.

Load tested the battery. Couldn't hold a charge, so I trashed it and got a new one. Car started right up. Haven't noticed as much of the headlight / dashboard dimming, but it's still there, just not as bad.

Should I send the alternator back once I get it? Or would it be smart to replace the old one? I'm thinking I'm just going to send it back since the car runs and I need to pay for the battery. :headshake

Thanks again for the help.
Dan

panzer dragoon
01-03-2010, 05:48 AM
Keep that alternator (if it is new and is updated) and replace it this summer -your battery is working harder and failing early due to the alternator not working good enough.

Load testers = $20 Harbor Freight and maybe double that at Sears etc.

There is an updated part number for the alternator that took issue with the field collapse of the old part number. =Don't buy used old part # Intrigue alternators unless you still want the field collapse issues.

Renegade2k
01-16-2010, 06:37 PM
You may want to install that alternator if the battery failed early, but if the battery was old anyway, I would get my $300 back.

You mentioned cleaning the terminals did not help. keep an eye on them, if the corrosion reappears, it is a sure sign that it is inside of the wire. When I replaced my alternator, I replaced the starter/alternator wire. I decided to use a chunk of it for my motorcycle and found that the corrosion had traveled 2 ft up the wire. It was about $50 from GM

To remove the alternator you have to remove the battery, battery tray, support brace above the battery. I moved the fuse box aside. Plan before you do this, you can replace just the thermostat housing seal, but they are not usually in stock.

HERES THE TRICK!!!!!

You DON'T have to remove the radiator fans. Looking at the new alternator you will see a hole that does not completely capture the bolt. This bolt does not have to come all the way out, just loosen it. This my save you a lot of trouble.

rhaigh08
01-18-2010, 04:41 PM
Yea I would deffinately keep the alternator especially if it's still the original. I have 2 Intrigues both are 3.5L's and in the 99 the alternator was replaced with a new one once, rebuilt twice, and replaced with a new/rebuilt one once. And Guess what it is going again. The alternator on my 01 just started giving me trouble too. So I would deffinately keep it just in case. That way you dont have to wait around for it to ship. Just gotta get it in.

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