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Promocom Toy group Ferrari 126C2 scale 1:8


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tony126c2
12-23-2009, 03:42 PM
A year ago I transferred $4500 for the purchase of the 1:8 model of the FERRARI 126C2 to the bank account of Berardo Oliviero Manzoni (also known as Berry Manzoni) from Brescia Italy. He is the owner of Promocom Toys Group of Italy.

This model is a “model builders heaven” and a top-notch kit: more than 2100 individual pieces. The chassis is machined from aluminium billet. The under tray and body are genuine carbon fibre. Wings, wheels, shock absorbers, and exhaust are machined metal. Many smaller metal parts are in brass, nickel silver and copper. There are hundreds of precision photo-etched metal parts in brass, nickel silver, stainless steel, aluminium and the brake air scoops are moulded in fibreglass.

http://albums.modelbrouwers.nl/coppermine/albums/userpics/10860/engine.jpg
http://albums.modelbrouwers.nl/coppermine/albums/userpics/10860/DSC_0182%7E0.jpg
http://albums.modelbrouwers.nl/coppermine/albums/userpics/10860/126c2_10.jpg

A couple weeks after transferring the money Berry Manzoni wrote: “give me a couple of days to assemble the kit”. However days became weeks and weeks became months but at last in January 2009 the kit arrived.
After checking the kit it appears that from the 50+ building stages over 30% of the bags were incomplete or complete bags were missing. A lot of these parts are big, vital pieces: gearbox, suspension, wing strut etc.
The response of Berry Manzoni was: “give me a couple of days to check this”. I was not surprised that days became weeks and weeks became months.

In the last year I wrote Berry Manzoni zillions of emails with almost no response. When he responded it were all empty promises (from “in …weeks you get them” to “ I have already send you the parts” etc.) I did not get one firm date about delivery of the missing parts …the only thing he was firm about was the price and the data of his bank account.

I really don´t expect to see one single part so with the help of other customers who send me pictures, drawings (and even parts) I started scratching the missing parts.

I started with gearbox the most completed part to reproduce. Red are the missing parts of the gear house

http://albums.modelbrouwers.nl/coppermine/albums/userpics/10860/gearbox-missing.jpg

The shapes of the parts are rather complicated so I started with a drawing based on pictures.

http://albums.modelbrouwers.nl/coppermine/albums/userpics/10860/DSC_0439.jpg

Also I made my first scratched part: the cover of the gear house. The white plastic is a bit faded :)

http://albums.modelbrouwers.nl/coppermine/albums/userpics/10860/DSC_0440.jpg

As a kind of preparation before the real build I will successively replace the missing parts with my "own work" :D

regards

Ton

Tim25
12-23-2009, 04:01 PM
Wow. For that kind of money I would be talking with a lawyer! That said, the build looks fascinating, can't wait to see more.

TIM

CrateCruncher
12-23-2009, 04:47 PM
Man, I hate hearing about stuff like this but you are wise to just move on. Don't let that jerk kill your love of the hobby. The same thing (albeit on a much smaller scale) happened to me a few years ago. I really really wanted an 1/8th Vincent Black Shadow Motorcycle kit from RAE so I rang 'em up in the UK and asked where I could get one. "Oh, we'll put one together for you and ship it right out to you." Great! I thought. I always inventory my kits the minute they arrive and this one had 3 frames, no rear cylinder and was missing numerous pieces. It's like they just threw whatever they could find in a box until it weighed enough! Geez!

I remember this kit from a build someone did years ago. It really looked like fun. I'll enjoy watching your progress Ton.

tuned.by.twenty
12-23-2009, 05:43 PM
It takes a lot to be able to keep a positive attitude in a case like this, but I think seeing the completed model will make it all worth-while.

star21
12-23-2009, 11:57 PM
Ouch! Sorry to hear that. A definite learning lesson for us all. This is why I'm glad money orders and wire transfers are getting second fiddle now to payment services like paypal.

I concur with a previous post; I'd definitely be consulting with a lawyer, though I'm not sure how things would really pan out.

Good luck with your build. I'll definitely be posted as this looks like one cool build. Too bad the engine didn't actually run though. That'd be awesome! :iceslolan

tony126c2
12-24-2009, 03:30 AM
Thanks guys for your kind words. Of course I considered legal action .....but by that time you got all the parts you can buy a real one from the lawyers fee :) I contacted the police, embassy etc but they can´t help you. So you got to help yourself :)

512BB
12-24-2009, 07:34 AM
The engine looks magnificent but the price is also......:banghead:
It's shame that there are so many missing parts for a beauty like this, but glad to see that you are capable of scratch building them. Keep up your good work, I'll stay tuned!

Noddy
12-24-2009, 09:11 AM
I wouldn't bother with the lawyer angle - too costly and no prize at the end. I'd opt for a personal visit with a cricket bat in my luggage. Much more satisfaction.

tony126c2
12-24-2009, 09:51 AM
I wouldn't bother with the lawyer angle - too costly and no prize at the end. I'd opt for a personal visit with a cricket bat in my luggage. Much more satisfaction.

:grinyes: :grinyes: I often used a verbal cricket bat :icon16: :icon16:

Ton

lovegt40
12-24-2009, 10:09 AM
I wellknow that model.
Saw it some years ago when it was presented here in Milano and it look very very welldone (mostly for the machining).

I just didnt agree about the carbon fiber used for the body, cause the real 126c2 dint had it at all, and just used some minor parts done in carbon fiber (this was told me by Mauro Forghieri in person, so think I can believe him)

They told me, the idea to use carbon fiber was for international delivering by plane, cause other materials will be damaged during the expedition :eek7::sly:.

I wanted the model (actually I wanted to have 2 of theme) but suspect all the idea collapsed under too many production problems.
The also asked me for an account I never gave (thanks god)

Also I think if I ever would have missing parts...I surely will give a call to my lawer to have my money back.
Good luck for the building, consider at today no real 126 c2 exist.
There is only one replica in Paris in FIA offices.
The surviving ones were all modified into the following c3.
There is also very few cool documentation about her,btw if u need some infos, try ask.

I love this car, cause was Gilles last one...too important for me.


Consider all the project is now owned by this company:
http://www.scaleautoworks.com/Ferrari126C2.html

maybe they can help u, even if the responsability for all the mess missing parts is only from "Berry", that also took the money in a couple of days..;)
Hope this help.

CrateCruncher
12-24-2009, 10:11 AM
There's little one can do once this has happened except badger the producer to make your parts. Unfortunately the reason the castings are missing is likely because the molds or masters were misplaced or damaged.

From my experience the only way we can protect ourselves from these crooks is to expose them when it happens and AVOID buying the last of a run of expensive model kits. Being a Bugatti fan I was intrigued by an eBay seller in France (Art Collection Auto) who was offering 1/8th T35's in kit form called "Challenger Series" for $3500. The guy did a run of built-ups and when that petered out he began selling the kits. The workmanship looked beautiful but I ultimately passed because I felt they were too expensive and too pre-fab for the kind of building I like to do. Recently I ran across this:http://cgi.ebay.com/Bugatti-T-35-1-8th-scale-Art-collection-Auto_W0QQitemZ280436923290QQcmdZViewItemQQptZAU_To ys (http://cgi.ebay.com/Bugatti-T-35-1-8th-scale-Art-collection-Auto_W0QQitemZ280436923290QQcmdZViewItemQQptZAU_To ys_Hobbies_Model_Kits?hash=item414b57db9a)_Hobbies _Model_Kits?hash=item414b57db9a (http://cgi.ebay.com/Bugatti-T-35-1-8th-scale-Art-collection-Auto_W0QQitemZ280436923290QQcmdZViewItemQQptZAU_To ys_Hobbies_Model_Kits?hash=item414b57db9a)
It's a listing of one of these "Challenger Series" kits that is missing parts. He probably got shorted just like Ton and I and couldn't look at it anymore. It sold cheap but no telling what vital parts are missing.

tony126c2
12-24-2009, 12:00 PM
@Paolo

Thank you very much for all this information :biggrin: especially about the carbon fibre. It would have been more realistic if they had moulded it from aluminium like the monocoque.

btw if u need some infos, try ask.
If you have some more information/pictures etc. please sent me a PM because I only have one booklet from the Meri collection.

Consider all the project is now owned by this company:
http://www.scaleautoworks.com/Ferrari126C2.html maybe they can help u,To my knowledge Brady Ward has nothing to do with Promocom Toy group. I have had contact with him but he was also one of the people who waited a long time for missing parts. BTW he got these parts but I didn´t !

@Mike

AVOID buying the last of a run of expensive model kits.I fully agree with you ...until now I have heard nothing more than troubles...but it is such a temptation :runaround::icon16:

It's a listing of one of these "Challenger Series" kits that is missing parts. He probably got shorted just like Ton and I and couldn't look at it anymore. It sold cheap but no telling what vital parts are missing.I spotted this model also years back ( I had not even restarted with modelling) and I was flabbergasted. Now I can tell you that the ebay Bugatti you were referring to is mine now :biggrin: the parts that are missing are rather easy to reproduce. I know a guy nearby my hometown who owns the kit also so that will no problem.

regards

Ton

rallymaster
12-24-2009, 07:32 PM
There's little one can do once this has happened except badger the producer to make your parts. Unfortunately the reason the castings are missing is likely because the molds or masters were misplaced or damaged.

From my experience the only way we can protect ourselves from these crooks is to expose them when it happens and AVOID buying the last of a run of expensive model kits. Being a Bugatti fan I was intrigued by an eBay seller in France (Art Collection Auto) who was offering 1/8th T35's in kit form called "Challenger Series" for $3500. The guy did a run of built-ups and when that petered out he began selling the kits. The workmanship looked beautiful but I ultimately passed because I felt they were too expensive and too pre-fab for the kind of building I like to do. Recently I ran across this:http://cgi.ebay.com/Bugatti-T-35-1-8th-scale-Art-collection-Auto_W0QQitemZ280436923290QQcmdZViewItemQQptZAU_To ys (http://cgi.ebay.com/Bugatti-T-35-1-8th-scale-Art-collection-Auto_W0QQitemZ280436923290QQcmdZViewItemQQptZAU_To ys_Hobbies_Model_Kits?hash=item414b57db9a)_Hobbies _Model_Kits?hash=item414b57db9a (http://cgi.ebay.com/Bugatti-T-35-1-8th-scale-Art-collection-Auto_W0QQitemZ280436923290QQcmdZViewItemQQptZAU_To ys_Hobbies_Model_Kits?hash=item414b57db9a)
It's a listing of one of these "Challenger Series" kits that is missing parts. He probably got shorted just like Ton and I and couldn't look at it anymore. It sold cheap but no telling what vital parts are missing.

Sorry for being out of topic with what follows but...
I live 25 kms away from the Bugatti manufacter (located in Molsheim, eastern France), I know several collectors or people involved close or far into what can be called a Bugatti collection (including 1/1 scale cars :runaround:), and if I can be usefull feel free to ask if my help/translation/contact for you etc can help you, especially in trying to know who is/can be an Ebay french seller or/and a model brand.
I'm also member of an adult Lego bricks collector association, for our second show/meeting opened to public, we built a... T35 1/1 scale !! :grinyes:
PM me if you want some links to it.

rallymaster
12-24-2009, 07:36 PM
Waow, 4500 dollars !!! :yikes: :yikes: :yikes:
I would NEVER spend in a scale model almost enough money to get... a REAL CAR !!!!
But I also must admit this scale model looks like more to a real one than to a scale model one...

tony126c2
12-25-2009, 07:42 AM
Hallo Philippe,

Thanks for your offer on the Bugatti info. I will keep it in mind :)

I would NEVER spend in a scale model almost enough money to get... a REAL CAR

If someone had predicted an odd 25 years ago that I would spent that kind of money of A MODEL.... I would have taken the person gently to a nearby institution where an adequate psychological treatment could start :iceslolan :iceslolan

Say NEVER NEVER :nono: :grinyes: :grinyes: :)

rallymaster
12-25-2009, 06:56 PM
Hi Tony,

in fact the Bugatti info was for the previous poster :icon16: but of course if you need some help, too... :biggrin:

I say never because I know I really would never buy such price models, it's a question of sens for me. Buying some hobby items that cost 3 months of french minimum salary is not something I would do... knowing some people will never get this money to simply live ! As I would never buy 15000 euros shoes or a 1500 euros shirt...! :shakehead Even if I was billionair. :nono:
That's why I can and do say never, I know that it's true and will always be, depending of my personal living philosophy and not only on the money I have.
I think that things have a limited cost, according to what their prices can allow modest people to buy with...
But that said, thinking to it, buying one exceptionnal very expensive jewel model or buying dozens of normal price ones... :screwy: :sly:
End result is quite the same, and I also spent this price diluted in several models whereas I would never have spent this price in one model...
Question of ethics and personal living philosophy, but surely not a kind of criticism to the ones that pay such price.
I was simply saying I would never do that myself, and I know I would, and also know why I said that. :wink: :)

It will be a real pleasure and enjoyment to follow the build of such a model though. :grinyes:
Really impressive realism for what we could see of it now.

Twowheelsrule
12-25-2009, 08:23 PM
Buying a expensive model is no different that buying a Bass boat or hunting gear when it would cost a lot less just to go to the store and buy your food there.

It is a hobby and it is going to cost money. You just have to figure out what you are willing to spend to reach your goals. To each their own on what that means to them.

That being said this Ferrari model is probably the most detailed model I have ever seen.

Mark

bmwmech1
12-25-2009, 11:31 PM
Ton, you know how envious I am of you that you have this kit to build, but I will follow this thread with anticipation and offer any help you might need to complete it. It is a shame Barry has not come through for you, but you will be fine nonetheless... I will wait for more updates...:biggrin::biggrin::biggrin:

Happy Holidays to you and yours, my friend,

Garey

tony126c2
12-26-2009, 03:55 AM
Question of ethics and personal living philosophy, but surely not a kind of criticism to the ones that pay such price.No problem my friend ...I respect you philosophy for life :) But it is not as expensive as it looks :wink: E.g I build the Pocher F40 with the transkit by Autograph. I spent 650 hours building and probably half of that time studying how to build this model. The prize of the car and transkit was €1800. The costs per hour were......€2.77 :grinyes: When I play tennis or golf ...or go skiing I probably spent more than € 2.77 an hour :) and I could sell it for € 5000/6000 euro´s (which I will not do !)

@Garey

offer any help you might need to complete itThanks Garey much appreciated! I probably need the help of your resistance soldering device :grinyes: How is the F40 coming along?

Happy holidays

Ton

rallymaster
12-26-2009, 07:56 AM
Buying a expensive model is no different that buying a Bass boat or hunting gear when it would cost a lot less just to go to the store and buy your food there.
Hi Mark,
Ok, but just notice that buying models isn't as much necessary than buying food !! :sly:


It is a hobby and it is going to cost money.
What doesn't mean it inevitably has to cost "too much money" compared to all people who even can't have any hobby or what such a price represent for most of the people...

Reading you and some others here and there (and myself as much when I see what I sometimes spend) I'm really wondering if some of us still consider and realize that we are a kind of privileged ones being able to spend hundreds of dollars/euros in such a hobby... :headshake :rolleyes:
That's what makes me questionning about the sens of my hobby sometimes (as when I read the price of that model), and may have I to be punished for that :sarcasm1: I did the mistake to share my own introspection...


You just have to figure out what you are willing to spend to reach your goals. To each their own on what that means to them.
Precisely ! And that's why some people can't understand (and they probably are right) why some of us can spend 3 months of salary for a scale model !! :confused: :screwy:
I'm not trying to make people feel guilty of their hobby and purchases, that's just the fact that some values given here and there tend to put things back to their places in my mind...
I think (and I really say "I" :iceslolan) that such prices aren't reasonable regarding to what such a value represents for most of the people...
I was only giving my opinion, I don't want to convert anyone, I also spent a lot of money (and feel enough "guilty" for that when I think to what else I could have done with...), but I simply refuse, to be in peace with my consciousness and personal living philosophy, to spend 3 months of french garanted minimum salary (and just to precise it and erase any doubt in what I'm sauing by chance and a lot of work I earn several times more... So it's not to me a question of "buying power") in a scale model or any kind of hobby item. That's what I call "To each their own on what that means to them" applied to myself. :wink: :grinyes:


That being said this Ferrari model is probably the most detailed model I have ever seen.
Mark
For sure this model worse the money.


No problem my friend ...I respect you philosophy for life :) But it is not as expensive as it looks :wink:
:yikes: :yikes: :eek7:
That's here that our points of view are different... :grinyes:
I don't see the time rate, I see the price ! :runaround::lol:

E.g I build the Pocher F40 with the transkit by Autograph. I spent 650 hours building and probably half of that time studying how to build this model. The prize of the car and transkit was €1800. The costs per hour were......€2.77 :grinyes: When I play tennis or golf ...or go skiing I probably spent more than € 2.77 an hour :) and I could sell it for € 5000/6000 euro´s (which I will not do !)
I understand what you want to show (number of hobby praticing hours such price represents), but I also see it by another sight: in this case, no matter what the time you spend is, price paid still is the same, it doesn't change, and what it could allow to buy still is the same too...
Moreover such a time rate comparison will be more correct IMO if you consider buying the finished model. But this is a kit, so the time doesn't reduce the price but increases it because it's your time needed to build it ! :naughty: :icon16:
I hope you see what I mean myself, cos' once more it's not a kind of criticism or discreditation or polemic, only a kind of too loud expressed personal introspection reacting to the price given. :screwy: Probably my humane fibre that regularly makes me feel guilty to have a so expensive hobby... :rolleyes:

And where I agree with you though, is that there are many other hobbies (like skying for example :banghead:) that cost much more per hour if you make the time rate comparison.
And of course, if you consider the number of practicing hours a $4500 scale model kit will give you compared to a $4500 skying week or rallying... You're right then ! :icon16:


Anyway, expensive or not, too much or not (what finaly is a question of personal opinion), this model really seems to worse the money :thumbsup:
And sometimes I'm wondering if a limited number of such ones wouldn't be better than dozens of other ones (if only they all ended being built once - another problem that) which finaly cost quite the same... :rolleyes:

CrateCruncher
12-26-2009, 09:23 AM
I think in the US we are trained by our television commercials to hyper-consume before we're old enough to walk. I was at a Paris hobby show a few years back where I picked up a bunch of things not available in the States. I was having a great time. But late in the day, as I was walking through the crowds of people, I suddenly realized I was the only person carrying anything purchased! Heck, when I go to shows in the States I have to fight my way in against a crowd of guys piling out of the building with stacks of kits to store in their cars so they can go back in to buy more! Weird huh?

I think it's only when we spend time outside our native culture that we realize how much it influences our attitudes and behavior.

Twowheelsrule
12-26-2009, 09:46 AM
Sorry to continue to jack the thread but, I just wanted to say I respect and enjoy everyone's opinions.... Rallymaster you are OK by me, I was just stating my opinion towards the hobby. I do get buyers remorse sometimes just buying Tamiya stuff the way the prices have went up.

Mark

tony126c2
12-26-2009, 10:13 AM
Hi Phil,

in this case, no matter what the time you spend is, price paid still is the same, it doesn't change, and what it could allow to buy still is the same too...

OK Phil I understand your point ...but we probably would have had the same discussion about buying a car, a boat and other necessities we don´t need primarily in life. My philosophy is that (without going to the details) no matter what you spend on yourself ...never, never forget people who are much less privileged as you are :smile:

@Garey

I think that in Europe we learned "consuming" also :rofl:

Ton

rallymaster
12-26-2009, 01:55 PM
I just wanted to say I respect and enjoy everyone's opinions.... Rallymaster you are OK by me
Mark
Don't worry, either do I ! :cool:


At the end, after reading all posted comments and reactions, it seems that our way to practice hobby isn't much different than any consuming behaviour...
I was a bit afraid that with the use of buying (+ or - trained to consume :evillol:) some of us even don't react anymore to what prices paid and money spent represent...
I'm pleased to see that I'm not the only one to question myself about it, I've been the only one to react so loud in the middle of a thread that wasn't made for this, so sorry if sharing my point of view made this thread take another way that the original expected, but It is nice to share more than builds to me, as finally we are all concerned by the same things (money, time, etc), with different ranges and point of views perhaps, but core of our hobby is the same.

bmwmech1
12-27-2009, 01:33 AM
Thanks Garey much appreciated! I probably need the help of your resistance soldering device :grinyes: How is the F40 coming along?

Happy holidays

Ton

I have still not started building, yet... too many things going on to get into my workshop just yet, but soon! I have played around a little with the Pocher Porsche GT2 project and have been collecting resources and materials for another project, which I may or may not start... we'll see. I do look at the F40 almost everyday and think about the next steps in the build, so it is on my mind, for sure... just have not had the time...

Garey

tony126c2
12-27-2009, 04:16 AM
I do look at the F40 almost everyday and think about the next steps in the build, so it is on my mind, for sure.

Than you are vitually building ....gives the best results :)

tony126c2
01-05-2010, 06:59 AM
In the last couple of weeks I made a nice progress on reproducing the missing parts of the gearbox. It is not finished yet but there is enough to show :D

On this picture all the reproduced parts are shown. The part in the middle is the "collar" between engine and gearbox housing. It is made out of plastic for the right measures but will be reproduced in brass because of the weight on both sides. The blue square show the parts from the kit which are the reference for reproducing the missing parts

http://albums.modelbrouwers.nl/coppermine/albums/userpics/10860/DSC_0441.jpg

A dryfit is shown from the reproduced parts and the picture in the left corner shows the original without missing parts :evil:

http://albums.modelbrouwers.nl/coppermine/albums/userpics/10860/DSC_0442.jpg

regards

Ton

cinqster
01-05-2010, 12:26 PM
Hi Tony,

Great build so far & really looking forward to seeing the rest of the WIP.

How are you going to make the "collar" piece in brass? Cast or machined? I guess machined, as brass is an absolute pig of a material to cast - if you need some help to cast it give me a shout, and I'll probably put you off the idea!:screwy:

I'm intrigued by Rallymasters posts about the initial cost. I must admit that $4500 would just about get you enough workshop equipment to reproduce this kit at a lower price (I think of all kit prices nowadays in terms of useful workshop equipment!). I'd be tempted to do such a thing just to give that Berry guy the kick up the ass he deserves, if he treats customers like this!

Good luck with the build, but bare in mind if you make too good a job, you'll be promoting that idiots products!:nono::iceslolan

tony126c2
01-05-2010, 02:24 PM
Thanks Cinqster for your kind words


How are you going to make the "collar" piece in brass? Cast or machined? I guess machined, as brass is an absolute pig of a material to cast - if you need some help to cast it give me a shout, and I'll probably put you off the idea!:screwy:I am going to solder it, I have a "mould" for the engine side and one for the gearbox side...brass tubing in the middle en than closing the piece with brass or plastic ??

I'm intrigued by Rallymasters posts about the initial cost. I must admit that $4500 would just about get you enough workshop equipment to reproduce this kit at a lower price (I think of all kit prices nowadays in terms of useful workshop equipment!). I'd be tempted to do such a thing just to give that Berry guy the kick up the ass he deserves, if he treats customers like this!But you need a lot of skills: casting, milling, making photo etch, work with carbon fibre etc. I think that is the reason why it went wrong with Promocom: to many participants and to little coordination. But the engine would be a nice project.

Good luck with the build, but bare in mind if you make too good a job, you'll be promoting that idiots products!:nono::iceslolanLOL just buy from Autograph or Brady Ward and you don´t have any problems:p

regards

Ton

tony126c2
01-14-2010, 03:43 PM
Some progress again :D Last time I stopped at the point were I had to make the brass connection point between the engine and gear housing. I used a plastic mould which I showed earlier to fabricate the brass connection.

http://albums.modelbrouwers.nl/coppermine/albums/userpics/10860/DSC_0443.jpg

At the left you see the plastic mould and the big picture shows the brass connection. The next picture shows the ready connection were I used copper plating to close the voids.

http://albums.modelbrouwers.nl/coppermine/albums/userpics/10860/DSC_0444.jpg

And here the gearbox housing is ready: plastic, white metal and copper/brass are painted and dry brushed to get all over metallic look.

http://albums.modelbrouwers.nl/coppermine/albums/userpics/10860/DSC_0445.jpg

On the next pictures you see the supports assembled for the complete suspension/wheel setting. I received a spare part of the suspension from another owner of the Promocom 126C2 so I only have to reproduce its counterpart.

This is my goal for the next update and probably I will make the wing strut too!

http://albums.modelbrouwers.nl/coppermine/albums/userpics/10860/DSC_0447.jpg

http://albums.modelbrouwers.nl/coppermine/albums/userpics/10860/DSC_0448.jpg

http://albums.modelbrouwers.nl/coppermine/albums/userpics/10860/DSC_0449.jpg

tony126c2
01-29-2010, 10:52 AM
Another update: a few parts less are missing now :D This update concerns two vital parts: the wing strut (orange) and a part of the suspension (blue). The wing strut is completely missing and I have the other suspension part as an example.

http://albums.modelbrouwers.nl/coppermine/albums/userpics/10860/DSC_0452a.jpg

After a failure in brass and aluminium sheet I decided to use plastic. The aluminium wing is so light that the structure has almost nothing to support. Here the inner parts are shown

http://albums.modelbrouwers.nl/coppermine/albums/userpics/10860/DSC_0453.jpg

Here the strut is almost finished

http://albums.modelbrouwers.nl/coppermine/albums/userpics/10860/DSC_0454.jpg

And here it is ready and assembled to the gearbox. The photo etch part is the mount for the wing.

http://albums.modelbrouwers.nl/coppermine/albums/userpics/10860/DSC_0455.jpg

The next part is the suspension part which gave me a considerable headache. As you can see nothing is straight but all these angles need to be united in one piece.

http://albums.modelbrouwers.nl/coppermine/albums/userpics/10860/DSC_0455a.jpg

How do you get these parts together? On the next picture you see the different stages. I took the original (upper part) and I replaced the virtual lines on the previous picture by brass tubing and soldered them together. This gave me a template ( middle part) with the right angles to make a base frame for this part (lowest part)

http://albums.modelbrouwers.nl/coppermine/albums/userpics/10860/DSC_0456.jpg

Because of its stiffness I used plastic to cover the base frame instead of brass

http://albums.modelbrouwers.nl/coppermine/albums/userpics/10860/DSC_0458.jpg

And here it is finished

http://albums.modelbrouwers.nl/coppermine/albums/userpics/10860/DSC_0461.jpg

Another two parts are from the list and rest is work for the lathe. I will finish the aft part as far as I can get and than back to the TR 250

:mrgreen: Ton

cinqster
01-29-2010, 12:45 PM
Great looking progress tony...who needs telly with this many 1/8th builds going one!:licka:

bmwmech1
01-29-2010, 07:26 PM
Great looking progress tony...who needs telly with this many 1/8th builds going one!:licka:

Exactly... nice progress Ton, you're really getting a workout with this thing!:iceslolan:iceslolan:iceslolan

Garey

tony126c2
01-31-2010, 09:51 AM
Thanks guys! It is a real 1/8 pest over here :)

tony126c2
02-05-2010, 03:30 PM
Another "missing part" fixed. A part which I cannot give a name but on the last picture you can see the location.
It was not necessary to work from a drawing: one of the two parts was delivered . So it was a rather easy job.

http://albums.modelbrouwers.nl/coppermine/albums/userpics/10860/DSC_0462.jpg

The difference is less when it is painted

http://albums.modelbrouwers.nl/coppermine/albums/userpics/10860/DSC_0463.jpg

After fixing this part I finished the whole sub assembly of the engine. The orange glow is caused by the lamplight

http://albums.modelbrouwers.nl/coppermine/albums/userpics/10860/DSC_0464.jpg

http://albums.modelbrouwers.nl/coppermine/albums/userpics/10860/DSC_0465.jpg

Ton

cinqster
02-05-2010, 04:34 PM
Tony, I can't believe you re-manufactured that part...you nutter! :)

That would have been so easy to mould two part with silicone and reproduced in resin, unless it's handed? Lovely job though!

Drop me a PM if you want some UK addresses for casting materials in case you have similar parts to make.

OMG...just realised it is handed! I'd have still taken a mould of the piece for tweaking though.

Enzoenvy1
02-05-2010, 04:40 PM
You are indeed a kind person. If I had paid anyone that much and did not receive what I was promised I would literally fly to his doorstep. I can promise you that I would leave with either my money or a complete kit. You are a nice person, lol.

Other than that, great scratch building you are doing. Sad to see what you have to do but maybe it is fun as well. Keep her comin.

tony126c2
02-06-2010, 06:32 AM
Tony, I can't believe you re-manufactured that part...you nutter! :)

That would have been so easy to mould two part with silicone and reproduced in resin, unless it's handed? Lovely job though!

Drop me a PM if you want some UK addresses for casting materials in case you have similar parts to make.

OMG...just realised it is handed! I'd have still taken a mould of the piece for tweaking though.

LOL practically you are right....but as long as I can do it myself I will do it :iceslolan I am not afraid to ask but I don´t like to bother other people with my problems as long as I can solve them myself. Luckily there are people who want me to help with the lathe-made objects....something I cannot do myself.

BTW it is not handed ...I made it so because I think the manufacturer took the short route :wink: :nono:

Enzo ...I am more realistic than nice. In Holland there is a proverb which says: it is difficult to pick feathers from a frog. So I am using a verbal base bat from time to time :icon16:

Ton

ScratchBuilt
02-06-2010, 02:21 PM
I'm liking this a lot - it's going to be difficult to spot the scratchbuilt bits from the kit bits, at this rate!

The wing support is a great example of how to create an odd shape using simple methods - a box frame core, a thin skin to cover it, and - I'm assuming - some filler and fettling. Then you have the contrast of the inlet manifold plate - some very delicate strip-work, small pieces of tube, etc. Lovely.

Can't wait to see the engine and gearbox brought together!

SB

bmwmech1
02-06-2010, 04:14 PM
You're right, SB! It will be hard to tell the kit parts from the hand made ones! I'm liking the level that everyone seems to be working at... there is no "it's good enough"... if it doesn't look exactly like the real thing, then it just won't do... I mean, using a file for pedal texture? That's just brilliant and it takes things to a whole new level...

Great job Ton,

Even though your F40 is stunning, I think this one may top it and I would guess it might even be more satisfying when done, since you had to overcome so much just to build it! Keep on keepin' on, my friend!:):):)

Garey

cinqster
02-06-2010, 05:02 PM
I mean, using a file for pedal texture? That's just brilliant and it takes things to a whole new level...
Garey

You aint seen nothing yet Garey! Divised a new method of keeping very toxic chemicals air tight in the workshop yesterday:

http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb224/cinqster-photo/Airtightchemicalstoragesmall.jpg

:rofl:

Sorry to go OT tony, but it made me laugh, at least! BTW, the mug is of stylish French design and origin - purchased at a Le Mans hypermarket - so has some racing ancestry!:smokin:

bmwmech1
02-06-2010, 08:12 PM
You aint seen nothing yet Garey! Divised a new method of keeping very toxic chemicals air tight in the workshop yesterday:

http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb224/cinqster-photo/Airtightchemicalstoragesmall.jpg

:rofl:

Sorry to go OT tony, but it made me laugh, at least! BTW, the mug is of stylish French design and origin - purchased at a Le Mans hypermarket - so has some racing ancestry!:smokin:

Nice Cing... I usually use the nitrile gloves for shower caps, though, lol! :smile::smile::smile:
I will not offer a photograph of me wearing one, however... too funny!

Garey

tony126c2
02-07-2010, 04:50 AM
Sb, Garey thanks for your kind words...this scratching is a good warming up before building the kit. :) And I like the scratch building very much !

tony126c2
02-16-2010, 10:25 AM
Here is the last update of my part of the reconstruction of the missing parts which were not delivered by Promocom. The rest ( 2 hubs and 2 suspensions) is lath- and milling work and is done by someone else. The help and support out of the community in this kind of projects as fantastic!!! He finished already the exhausts

http://albums.modelbrouwers.nl/coppermine/albums/userpics/10860/DSC_0465a.jpg

After all this has been done there are still some bits and pieces but these will be made during the build.

Well here are the last pieces: a piece of the suspension which needed some solder work.

http://albums.modelbrouwers.nl/coppermine/albums/userpics/10860/DSC_0466.jpg

...and a calliper

http://albums.modelbrouwers.nl/coppermine/albums/userpics/10860/DSC_0467.jpg

One was delivered so I had an example. Its shape makes it a difficult part to reproduce. I decided to use slices

http://albums.modelbrouwers.nl/coppermine/albums/userpics/10860/DSC_0468.jpg

...and glue these together

http://albums.modelbrouwers.nl/coppermine/albums/userpics/10860/DSC_0469.jpg

Than you glue all kind of parts to the calliper, put some paint on it and than this is the result

http://albums.modelbrouwers.nl/coppermine/albums/userpics/10860/DSC_0470%7E0.jpg

http://albums.modelbrouwers.nl/coppermine/albums/userpics/10860/DSC_0471%7E0.jpg

Not a 100% copy but I am satisfied :D

Ton

tuned.by.twenty
02-16-2010, 02:54 PM
Not bad, not bad at all.

tony126c2
03-06-2010, 07:54 AM
Factual this update is the start of this build :D

I started with the engine. This collection of white metal parts is the engine block.

http://albums.modelbrouwers.nl/coppermine/albums/userpics/10860/DSC_0472%7E0.jpg

The fitting of the parts is really bad. Hours of sanding and filing results in this :?

http://albums.modelbrouwers.nl/coppermine/albums/userpics/10860/DSC_0473.jpg

A check to see if my self made gearbox is still fitting

http://albums.modelbrouwers.nl/coppermine/albums/userpics/10860/DSC_0477.jpg

This kind of detailwork I like very much: approx 1 cm by 1 cm :D

http://albums.modelbrouwers.nl/coppermine/albums/userpics/10860/DSC_0479.jpg

Here is the exhaust some else made and .......everything fits :D

http://albums.modelbrouwers.nl/coppermine/albums/userpics/10860/DSC_0479a.jpg

The block is heavy: more than 500 grams metric. It is also awkward to handle

http://albums.modelbrouwers.nl/coppermine/albums/userpics/10860/DSC_0481.jpg

This is the solution

http://albums.modelbrouwers.nl/coppermine/albums/userpics/10860/DSC_0482.jpg

http://albums.modelbrouwers.nl/coppermine/albums/userpics/10860/DSC_0483.jpg

http://albums.modelbrouwers.nl/coppermine/albums/userpics/10860/DSC_0485.jpg

an engine stand which can be turned. Here are some pictures of the current state of the engine

http://albums.modelbrouwers.nl/coppermine/albums/userpics/10860/DSC_0486.jpg

http://albums.modelbrouwers.nl/coppermine/albums/userpics/10860/DSC_0487.jpg

http://albums.modelbrouwers.nl/coppermine/albums/userpics/10860/DSC_0488.jpg

http://albums.modelbrouwers.nl/coppermine/albums/userpics/10860/DSC_0489.jpg

http://albums.modelbrouwers.nl/coppermine/albums/userpics/10860/DSC_0490.jpg

Next step is the build of several sub assemblies of the engine

Ton

bmwmech1
03-06-2010, 09:53 AM
Looks awesome, as realistic as it can get. Great idea with the stand that rotates... I'm making a rotisserie for the Cobra chassis, so I can rotate it as I work on it... same idea as yours! Now the build truly begins, right? Hard to tell your self made gearbox is self made, it looks right at home bolted up to the engine!

Garey

tony126c2
03-06-2010, 04:52 PM
Looks awesome, as realistic as it can get. Great idea with the stand that rotates... I'm making a rotisserie for the Cobra chassis, so I can rotate it as I work on it... same idea as yours! Now the build truly begins, right? Hard to tell your self made gearbox is self made, it looks right at home bolted up to the engine!

Garey

Thanks Garey both the same idea :) I hope this rotating stand makes the work a bit more easy ...both hands are free now:iceslolan

Ton

jaykay640
03-06-2010, 05:09 PM
Very cool! Good to see you actually get to go on the build itself :-)
The stand for the engine is a nice touch. Taking the time to make it nice and paint it is real nerdy...i like it :-)

cinqster
03-06-2010, 06:01 PM
Yep, that stand really looks the business. Did Ferrari ever make one like this - if not, I'm sure it would have looked like that if they had!

In hindsight, what do you think about the mechanical parts being cast in white metal? I only ask because I'm playing with the idea of casting some of my parts in pewter. Do you think it's worth the hassle to get the right look, and have you painted it anyway? Looks like a right pig to assemble just for that cast finish, rather than have the builder use his/her skills with paint. The colour/texture of the pic on the scales look particularly good - did you media/vapour blast it at this point?

tony126c2
03-07-2010, 07:59 AM
Taking the time to make it nice and paint it is real nerdy...i like it :-)

Thanks Jaykay, .......I know a guy from Hannover who is doing a Jordan..... :iceslolan :icon16: you always know where you start ..but never know where you end..and that is true modelling :biggrin2:

Thanks cinqster for your nice comments. I have seen pictures somewhere of the stand but I don´t know if it was Ferrari :)

Personally I would cast in resin: I have a couple of engines still on the shelf partly WM and partly resin and the latter is the better quality. Details are less rude and the fit is better...although I have seen warped resin casts.

I painted the engine with a brush ..that gives the texture and the colour is Titanium silver from Tamiya.

Ton

tony126c2
03-13-2010, 08:24 AM
This small update shows some pictures of engine parts like the fuel pump, distributor etc.

http://albums.modelbrouwers.nl/coppermine/albums/userpics/10860/DSC_0493.jpg

a front and side view on the engine with the parts assembled

http://albums.modelbrouwers.nl/coppermine/albums/userpics/10860/DSC_0494.jpg

http://albums.modelbrouwers.nl/coppermine/albums/userpics/10860/DSC_0495.jpg

Ton

Scalemodelfanatic
03-13-2010, 04:15 PM
WOW, this project is looking great and your scrachtbuilt parts to replace those missing are superb, is a shame that a kit with so much engeneering and detail was sold with missing parts and no effort what so ever was made by the manufacturer to replace the parts...no wonder you don't see this amazing kit built anywhere!!

You are doing a magnificent job and this truly is going to be a masterpiece in scale, can't wait to the next up date.

tony126c2
03-14-2010, 04:57 AM
WOW, this project is looking great and your scrachtbuilt parts to replace those missing are superb, is a shame that a kit with so much engeneering and detail was sold with missing parts and no effort what so ever was made by the manufacturer to replace the parts...no wonder you don't see this amazing kit built anywhere!!

You are doing a magnificent job and this truly is going to be a masterpiece in scale, can't wait to the next up date.


Thanks!

Ton

360spider
03-14-2010, 11:19 AM
Awesome!

kans0002
03-15-2010, 03:41 PM
looking really great so far!

Stuart

tony126c2
04-20-2010, 03:28 PM
I had a few weeks off from building this kit: sometimes it is nice to do other things like reading a book :D Also I have prepared a space were I can use my airbrush ( which I bought a year ago :shock: ) Despite this "weeks off" I kept on building slowly :D

Here is were we stopped last time: just the engine block.

http://www.modelbrouwers.nl/albums/coppermine/albums/userpics/10860/DSC_0495.jpg

The engine block is build up with turbo´s and exhaust manifolds. Here are a few parts shown.

http://www.modelbrouwers.nl/albums/coppermine/albums/userpics/10860/DSC_0496.jpg

and here they are assembled

http://www.modelbrouwers.nl/albums/coppermine/albums/userpics/10860/DSC_0497.jpg

http://www.modelbrouwers.nl/albums/coppermine/albums/userpics/10860/DSC_0499.jpg

engine parts in the a base coat

http://www.modelbrouwers.nl/albums/coppermine/albums/userpics/10860/DSC_0500.jpg

After some experimenting with the airbrush this is the result on the exhaust manifolds

http://www.modelbrouwers.nl/albums/coppermine/albums/userpics/10860/DSC_0502.jpg

pressure valve ???? assembled

http://www.modelbrouwers.nl/albums/coppermine/albums/userpics/10860/DSC_0504%7E1.jpg

and the exhaust manifolds

http://www.modelbrouwers.nl/albums/coppermine/albums/userpics/10860/DSC_0505a%7E0.jpg

http://www.modelbrouwers.nl/albums/coppermine/albums/userpics/10860/DSC_0505%7E1.jpg

http://www.modelbrouwers.nl/albums/coppermine/albums/userpics/10860/DSC_0506%7E1.jpg

http://www.modelbrouwers.nl/albums/coppermine/albums/userpics/10860/DSC_0508%7E1.jpg

Next step is finishing the engine

Ton

f40
04-22-2010, 10:59 AM
WOW nice work.This motor looks great. Beautiful details:smokin:

CrateCruncher
04-22-2010, 11:54 AM
You are making one very impressive looking model Ton. Keep up the great work and those nice pictures coming.

tony126c2
04-22-2010, 01:55 PM
Thanks guys I will keep them coming!

Ton

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