95 Bonneville 3.8 wont run right no power

Okay i am beginning to real upset with this car. The water pump had went and leaked on the crank sensor and that sent a code to the computer. We were told to fix the water pump first because if coolant leaks on the sensor it will send that code. It has been running a little better since we fixed that but it still back fires once and a while, it shakes trying to idle and will die every once and a while. Someone told me that the cat might be plugged could that be the case???

Someone told me that the cat might be plugged could that be the case???No, a plugged cat will cause a loss of power, but will not cause the engine to stall. :disappoin You may need to replace the CKPS.

What exactly is the CKPS??

What exactly is the CKPS??Crank Position Sensor.

Okay still back fires once and a while, it shakes trying to idle and will die every once and a while. ???

Make sure all 6 cylinders are firing to the plugs, not just the coils. Check for any loose connections on everything, ICM,PCM,SENSORS,ect... You also mentioned that you pulled a code, what code did you get?

Yes i did get a code it was crank sensor error or something like that plus spark reference lost im not sure i have it written down ill find it and post it on here tmrw...

If I'm not mistaken, the crankshaft sensor is only activated for 3 seconds at start-up, then it switches over to the cam sensor for the accurate timing while running.

Actually, both sensors are used all the time after the engine starts. The crank sensor is used for spark timing and the cam sensor is used for injector timing. The engine will even run without the cam sensor connected (with injectors firing out of time) but the engine will not run without the crank sensor connected.

Hmm, I guess I was mistaken!!! (sorry) That info. will come in handy for me 1 day, thanks for the correction HotZ28

Alright thanks for the help guys...im gonna hook it up to the scanner tmrw and get all the codes and when i do ill post them back on here to see if you guys have any input on them thanks

sorry for the wait if anyone was watching...

the current codes its giving are
p0321-Spark Reference Lost
p1361-Ignition Control Toggle Error

history codes are
p0112-Intake Air Temperature Sensor Low
p0321-Spark Reference Lost
p0341-Camshaft Crank Error
p0401-Exhaust Gas Recirculation Flow Error
p1361-Ignition Control Toggle Error

and ideas of how to fix it would be appreciated!! thanks

have you checked to make sure no wires are grounding out, ckeck for power & ground on the crank position sensor, check all the wiring around the ignition control module, trace them to make sure the wires are in good shape & no shorts. It is possible to have a faulty PCM, but you want to be sure you check the obvious first.

yes i have thought of the PCM being bad but before we even bought the car the guy that had it before us replaced that cause he thought it was bad...but i just remembered that we wired in a new plug for the coil pack because the one on there was bad, so maybe those wired we wired in are not sealed right or something....could be right

does anyone have any ideas or guesses?

Those codes could point to a bad signal from the cps, or a bad icm.

I'd hit up a junkyard & get the wiring harness that runs between the ICM, CPS, CKPS & PCM. Get one from the newest car possible. Install the harness, clear the codes & see if any of the codes return.

Depending on their return policy, you might want to pick up another PCM while you're there.

ok so are we talking about maybe a bad camshaft position sensor? or both the cam and crank shaft position sensors?

There's a good chance it's not the cam or crank sensor. IIRC it works something like this:
The crank sensor is a dual sensor that reads two signals (3x & 18x) from the harmonic balancer. During cranking the 3x signal is used by the ignition control module to determine ignition timing. Once the engine starts then the PCM sends a signal to the ICM & the ICM then allows the PCM to control the ignition timing. If this doesn't happen then code P1361 is thrown & the ICM keeps control of the timing so the engine doesn't quit.

So the most likely scenario is that you have problem with the PCM, ICM or the wiring in between. Normally I'd say the ICM is the most likely suspect out of the three but you mentioned having to repair that wiring harness so let's move that into the #1 spot followed by the ICM & then the PCM. I'd get all three from a junkyard & then return what you don't need.

well i just found out the other day that when we put in the new plug it was done correct by soldering it and heat shrink around it sooo thats still good...right now the engine is only running spark reference lost so i am going to test the coils tmrw and see if any are bad..

The problem won't be with the coils. It could be the 18x portion of the crank sensor is bad. Do you know if the 94 PCM's will give a code P0336?

i really have no clue...and i had the car hooked up to a $10,000 computer and the only codes that came up were spark reference lost and a misfire code....

I'm afraid you're just going to have to pick something & change it. There's no way we can tell you whether the crank sensor is bad, if the wiring is bad or if the ICM & PCM is getting the signals but not able to switch from the 3x to 18x signal.

do u think that there is a possible chance that putting in new plugs that the car would run better or is that not likely?