OK, so most of you know that the Le Mans series BMW M3 is now a V-8 powered M3 GTR (I couldn't find a dedicated thread for the GTR so I'm placing this update here). Porsche is upset with their failing performance of the GT3s and has noted to the Le Mans regulations committee that BMW does not produce a production version of the M3 GTR. Brushed aside at first with BMWs announcement of a future V-8 powered production M3, the committee has now ordered a tighter air restrictor for the GTRs. Their lenience with BMW's intentions has expired and are now acting with this new power-reducer.

Cheers for Porsche; cheating is wrong in any serious or mild form. And cheers for BMW, IF they draw out a production V-8 M3 soon enough.

i thought it was a v-12? Or...maybe that was the hamann laguna seca one....uh..

Not exactly sure what type of Bimmer that one is. But the shot below is the ALMS M3 GTR.

This from Speedvision's site:

"In accordance with the regulations of the Automobil Club de l'Ouest (ACO), which also organizes the Le Mans 24 Hours, BMW Motorsport will be building a limited-production run of M3 GTRs in addition to the race version. This vehicle is primarily intended for customer racing. Depending on national homologation regulations, however, it can be distributed with road licensing. Detailed technical specifications and prices are to be released at a later date."

I suppose BMW hasn't been living up to their promise and the regulations committee has mandated the stricter power-killer.

Already knew that next generation M3 is V8 powered long time ago.

I scanned this from the Navembe issue of NZ Driver magazine.
I think it sums it all up. :D

http://wsphotofews.excite.com/008/54/Su/zd/0i32504.jpg

"BMW has no plans to bring it here anyways."

Well damn, not ever going to see a GTR I guess. I dont know if I would pay $230,000 for one anyways.

I hope they make the M3 CSL, (and bring it to the US!!!) I think they could sell them in the $70-80,000 range. The CSL would really enforce BMW's performance image. A 911 turbo killer for less? Sounds good!

-Ian

Yeah, it looks like BMW finally brought out the M3 GTR. I must say, it's really a dissapointment. As a car, it's awesome, but a standpoint from a wider perspective seems to show that BMW only created this car to obey ALMS homologation rules solely to beat out Porsche. Le mans has always been about real-world cars doing unreal things, but in this case, it almost looks like cheating. The car is to be produced starting February 2002, and only in really measly numbers at the astronomical prices mentioned earlier. The FIA forces WRC cars to be homologated in high volume, thereby forcing the production prices down to a level where average people can purchase them. With expectations predicting that the majority of the GTRs will go straight back to the tracks nearly reverses the goal of homologation. To make things worse, it's missing 100 hp from the ALMS version and will be detuned to 350 hp (yes, it's in order to make it streetable, but doesn't that defeat the purpose of the massive V-8?).

IMO, the CSL (if ever produced) will be a better choice, at a much better price. You also get the ultra-cool SMG II gearbox.

Below: Press release shot again, larger

Mispost; here it is:

Originally posted by ian840
"BMW has no plans to bring it here anyways."


ummm, that here is my here, which is New Zealand. :cool:

If you look closly you'll notice that the GTR in the pic is LHD, which means its for the European and possibly the American market. If the car passes the US crash tests etc then I see no reason why a few won't make it stateside. :)

But I know the only way Ill ever see one is If someone buys me a plane ticket.

Originally posted by ian840
"BMW has no plans to bring it here anyways."

Well damn, not ever going to see a GTR I guess. I dont know if I would pay $230,000 for one anyways.

Not like Porsche wants to sell the GT3 in America.
Maybe a few "Porsche fans" will disagree with me on this, but I'm tired of hearing of all the bullshit about the M3-GTR being "to fast", or "to quick". Hell, just to make it shorter, with out the M3 it would be all porsches.
IMO, a "Porsche GT3-R(S) Cup" would get a little dull after a little. :)
-Nick

Originally posted by nick6_lmr
but I'm tired of hearing of all the bullshit about the M3-GTR being "too fast", or "to quick".

I don't know who says the GTR is 'too' anything, but one thing BMW should not have done was pretty much make the street variant follow the race model like trailing paperwork. Plus it just bluntly looks like a case of bad form, seeing how they brought out the street V-8 with too little, too late for the homologation rules, and it really showed, when Automobil Club de l'Ouest mandated the air restrictor change. So it's not just a couple of Porsche fanatics who see it this way; it's the whole organization.

Well, it looks like the air restrictor change isn't really affecting the GTR's performance, with consistent wins following. I wonder if Porsche has anything up their sleeve.. Perhaps the upcoming Cayenne 8-cylinder engine with twin-turbos? I don't think they would use the Carrera GT's V10; they should be saving that for the LMP class.

Porsche did the same thing with one of their cars... I don't remember which model ( have to go back to the books to find that one out) but they produced a bunch of cars to sell which never went to a dealer they just sat behind the factory to comply with the rules.

Homologation rules need to become more strict in Le Mans, and need to be enforced by the ACO, just like the heavy regulations in the FIA World Rally. Great sports car racers are for the people, the fans, NOT just for wins. Therefore, the race models should have better compliance with the public, and we should see more of the street versions on the road, in better numbers. Just as the FIA mandates several thousand of each rally car to be sold each year (thereby keeping the price low for these production cars), the ACO needs to do something of the sort.

I agree, they could make enough M3 GTR's to get the price at LEAST under $150,000. I dont think that is asking too much considering cars out there like the Ferrari 360 Modena in that price range. To me $230,000 for any M3 is just absurd, even as the M3 fanatic that I am. Just my two cents...

-Ian

Originally posted by ian840
I agree, they could make enough M3 GTR's to get the price at LEAST under $150,000. I dont think that is asking too much considering cars out there like the Ferrari 360 Modena in that price range. To me $230,000 for any M3 is just absurd, even as the M3 fanatic that I am. Just my two cents...

-Ian

No one said BMW had to sell the GTR, maybe that's what they are up to, they don't WANT anyone to buy the GTR.

- Speedi

ya i believe Le Mans rules dictate that one hundred GTR's must be sold in order for them to allow the V8 M3s to race this year and well thats a hell of a lot GTRs to sell before feb.

Yeah, that's not going to happen. Actually, in the scheme of things, the Hartge M3 is not all that impressive. 0-60 drops 3/10's of a second and quarter mile drops 0.5 seconds and 6mph, MAYBE, for $120k???

I don't know if my figures are correct, but I remember Motor Trend getting 0-60 of 4.8 and quarter mile of ~13.6x at ~107mph... for $46k base MSRP. I think the Hartge M3 is cool, but I just don't see how ANYONE can remotely justify spending $70k MORE for a car that gets minimal performance gains.

OTOH, once you get to this level of performance, I think you need LOTS of horsepower to push the vehicle beyond these statistics.

Well it has happened. To some, answered prayers, to others, worst nightmares. BMW has withdrawn from the 2002 season of Le Mans in order to recuperate with the newly drawn ACO rules for the GT class. Formerly (and BMW really took this to the extreme letter) GT class vehicles were allowed to race if at least one homologation special was created for the public. Following these guidlines, BMW drew up the M3 GTR, which did end up dominating the entire season of 2001, leaving Porsche in complaint. And the Automobile Club l'Oueste heard the pleas and rewrote the book in Bimmers (essentially aimed at them), requiring at least one homologation special to be made once a week. If the manufacturer could not comply to this rule, a heavy air restrictor and weight ballast would need to be placed in the contender. Furthermore, from this point on, all GT class vehicles must use engines based on the high output production engine, with risk of the same weight and air penatlties (meaning no more V-8s for BMW). The folks at Bimmer decided a withdrawal from the entire season would be much more fitting than losing every race of 2002 that they led during 2001. As it seems, Porsche got their wish of retaining vehicles to the "spirit" of the rules.

It's hard to imagine that after all the conundrum, there is yet one fanatic to respond to this thread. Tell me there is another thread that I am overlooking.

In any case, I suppose the season of 2002 will be an all-Porsche affair. This is really shameful to hear as many know, without competition, there is no growth. BMW could have redrawn their inline-6, but I'm sure they have their "reasons" for leaving the field.

It has been recently stated (prior to the new rulebook) that Porsche could have altered their 996 GT2's mechanical design to accomodate a mid-engined powerplant. The task would simply require a loss of the rear-seat compartment, and a 180 degree mounting of the turbocharged flat-6. This could possibly yield better weaving and cornering, for the lack of brute power against the M3 GTRs, at the sacrifice of burying age-old rear-mounted Porsche tradition. At one point, the Boxster was even suggested as a formidable platform for the GT-class, but was firmly denied by a Porsche head and other officials (--breath of relief--).

Future thoughts? Although a turbocharged inline-6 powered M3 might be a drastic final swing, it could be BMW's only hope. Of course, this would mean a high production turbo M3 for the public! What to do... Will BMW abandon the GT-class entirely, and reintroduce itself to the LMP-class to give Audi some well-deserved competition? Or will we see some depth defying 10 grand rpm plus n/a action? Let's sit tight and see...

Porche produced the 911 GT3's which dominated on the courses. The car was built solely for racing in mind, with a $200,000+ price tag, who would argue. Porche threw a punch with the GT3, BMW had to respond. The M3 GTR was built and it beat the GT3. But now, the ALMS are calling it, and many others, are calling it "cheating almost", well, if that were true then wouldn't Porche be guilty of the same crime? And the ALMS complained to BMW ONLY AFTER porche had whined about their losses and the new M3 GTRs. When the GT3 was made, BMW accepted the challenge, and just came back with an even stronger automobile. This is what a true racing car company is all about.

Originally posted by SuperRice
...When the GT3 was made, BMW accepted the challenge, and just came back with an even stronger automobile...

If your definition of a "stronger automobile" is one with a massive engine with more cylinders stuffed in, well that's your opinion (this is the same "bigger is better" approach of American automakers that failed to allow them to be world competitors in motorsports). But the way I see it, BMW Motorsports could have done a number of other things before resorting to the V-8, including the aforementioned forced induction. High performance V-8s can even touch into GT-S territory. Porsche really went a bit far with their pricey homologation special, but BMW simply went overboard. A man would feel closer to the GT3 in his Turbo, than an M3 owner relative to a GTR.

what was the specs of the M3 GTR?...LM version

Although i would love to see the M3-GTR race in the GT series, it is about time the rule makers realised that road homolagation take the piss. It used to be so easy to get around them, and every time the FIA realised this, they would change the damn rules (case in point being the CLK-GTR-no car like that will ever be built again after FIA realised wot a joke it was for them to have to build only 25 of the things). Now they have some half decent rules they should stick by them