well its not the battery. i brought that into auto zone the other day nad head them charge it. figured the battery had a dead cell (starter was making the "machine gun" noise) now i got the battery in and i turn the key and i hear a solid thunk from the starter, but engine wont turn.

just got this car from my best friend for free. he says he was driving down the highway and all of the sudden the engine revved and then it died. he managed to start it once more and get it to a parking lot and as soon as he put it in park it died again. hasnt cranked since. i talked to the guys at autozone and i got told it could be anything from the solenoid/starter to the timing chain. im pretty sure its the starter(hoping its just the solenoid since i cant afford a new starter) desperatly praying its not the timing chain...

any ideas as to what it might be?

Bad starter isn't gonna make it die on the highway.

Timing chain break is rare on these, unless it's got 150,000 miles or something.

I'd try to rotate the crankshaft by hand and see if the motor will even turn over. Could be the oil pump drive broke and he locked it up or something. Starter hits hard but won't turn the motor over sounds suspicious...

well it does have like 130k miles on it...

umm how do i test to see if its the oil pump locking up the motor?

keep in mind that im not quite car stupid, but im still learning. i had a hell of a time just finding the starter, and still couldnt get the damn thing off...

is there any other things it might be? i have to get this car running. i have no transportation at all. im desperate and will try anything, but i dont have much oney so mechanic is out of the question. i do have a neighbor at my apartment that is a mechanic but he's a drunk and i dun like asking him stuff...

oh and i did try to rotate the crankshaft by hand(the botom wheel on the belt??? the only one with a nut on it...) but it wouldnt budge

oh and i did try to rotate the crankshaft by hand(the botom wheel on the belt??? the only one with a nut on it...) but it wouldnt budge

I hate to break the news to you, but if you couldn't get the crank pulley to turn the engine over, then you probably have something broken internally in the engine jamming it up. I think some of the 3100 engines around your model year had camshafts that were suspectible to breaking. Is this what your car has, the 3100 engine?

i dont think so but im not sure...

how can i tell?

i dont think so but im not sure...

how can i tell?

I previously told you how you can tell. You should be able to turn the engine by the crank pulley with a long ratchet or breaker bar. If it won't turn over then you have something locking the motor up inside. Or are you aking how can you tell if you have a 3100 motor? It should say right on the top "3100".

what do you mean long ratchet or breaker bar?

all i have is a regular ratchet...

and it doesnt say 3100 on the top

well it does have like 130k miles on it...

umm how do i test to see if its the oil pump locking up the motor?

keep in mind that im not quite car stupid, but im still learning. i had a hell of a time just finding the starter, and still couldnt get the damn thing off...

is there any other things it might be? i have to get this car running. i have no transportation at all. im desperate and will try anything, but i dont have much oney so mechanic is out of the question. i do have a neighbor at my apartment that is a mechanic but he's a drunk and i dun like asking him stuff...

oh and i did try to rotate the crankshaft by hand(the botom wheel on the belt??? the only one with a nut on it...) but it wouldnt budge

Yes the bottom one is the crankshaft. It's not easy to turn, but should be able to rotate it with a socket wrench with a pipe on the handle or a breaker bar. I can usually grab the serp belt and turn a motor by hand, but it's not easy, some folks can't do that.

But at any rate have someone tap the starter while you watch the crank pulley. If it barely notches or doesn't move at all, but you can hear the starter whining silently while engaged, chances are the engine is seized. You'll burn the starter out doing this too much if that's the case.

I have heard a few engines break oil pump drives, and when it happens it acts kinda like you described...the engine seems to race momentarily because it is suddenly free of the load of pumping oil, which takes a significant amount of horsepower...then without lubrication they begin to get tight and stall out quickly. If this was the case, and he was able to restart it and drive it off the road, it's probably toast now.

But that's just a guess...could be any of a number of other things.

But first thing is to determine without a doubt if the crank is free to rotate, and if not, you probably don't need to pursue it any further...because the repair is going to be both beyond your mechanical ability and/or budget...sorry....just being realistic here...

But if the crank will rotate, we might be able to walk you through what to do next...

what do you mean long ratchet or breaker bar?

all i have is a regular ratchet...

and it doesnt say 3100 on the top

Just a regular half inch drive ratchet or breaker bar like he said should turn the crankshaft pulley. If you couldn't get it with your ratchet then don't even worry about a breaker bar because you should be able to turn it with the ratchet, they aren't that hard to turn, usually a breaker bar is used just to break the bolt loose if you have to change the pulley.

Just for the fun of it though, take your belt off then try turning the pulley with your ratchet, maybe lucky and something else locked up and you can't turn it because of the belt. If the crank pulley does turn then check all of your other pulleys and see which one doesn't turn, alternator, water pump, power steering, etc. just whatever you have on there. I really doubt that though because I think the starter should have enough power to turn the motor over and that if something else was locket up the belt should just rub over it.

Oh, a breaker bar, has the same plug that a ratchet has that goes into your socket, just doesn't have any ratcheting action like a ratchet, just a long bar that has that on the end. Try this too just for the heck of it if the crank pulley still doesn't turn, make sure the motor has plenty of oil, may even spray some wd-40 down in where the oil cap is. Let it sit over night, then go back and try to turn it again, with a long breaker bar this time, and if you get it, just keep turning it around and around for a bit. Then put everything back together and try to start it up again.

PS, make sure that when you are turning the bottom pulley you are turning it clockwise.

Just for the fun of it though, take your belt off then try turning the pulley with your ratchet, maybe lucky and something else locked up and you can't turn it because of the belt. If the crank pulley does turn then check all of your other pulleys and see which one doesn't turn, alternator, water pump, power steering, etc. just whatever you have one there. I really doubt that though because I think the starter should have enough power to turn the motor over and that if something else was locket up the belt should just rub over it.

.

Good thought, I didn't think about that. Could be a locked up A/C bearing or something...that would be great news for him :grinyes:

When I was a kid, my mom and I were driving through Death Valley in her 1972 Datsun 510 wagon...it was 118 degrees...and the car suddenly stalled and stopped. The starter wouldn't turn it over.

Towed to a shop in town, the mechanic said the motor locked up. Completely despondent, mom called her ex, who drove all the way from Denver to come get us.

When he got there, he looked under the hood, had her try to crank it....took out his knife....and cut the belt off the smog pump...and it started right up! :lol:...smog pump had seized up, and that little motor didn't have the power to turn the belt that wouldn't move!

Hope he gets lucky like that...but I agree, it's a long shot. A V6 will usually slide a serp belt over a locked accessory or break the belt...a little more torque than an anemic early 70's Datsun 1.3L :tongue:

Before we go any further, lets figure out what engine you have as each engine offered in your car has it's own set of inherent flaws that could cause your problem. The upper plenum or plastic engine cover should have the displacement on it, but if that's not readily visible, the 8th digit of your Vin# denotes what engine it has.
If it's the letter K, you have a 3800
If it's the letter J, you have a 3100

From what you're describing, I would put my money on a serp belt driven pulleyaccessory failed/locked up, so try starting the engine with the belt removed. If it starts, you found the area you need to check more thoroughly. A locked up accessory like an A/C compressor or water pump can keep the engine from starting and/or cause it to stall.

From what you're describing, I would put my money on a serp belt driven pulleyaccessory failed/locked up, so try starting the engine with the belt removed. If it starts, you found the area you need to check more thoroughly. A locked up accessory like an A/C compressor or water pump can keep the engine from starting and/or cause it to stall.


Just want to say that I've seen a motor turning over with someone else in the vehicle with the key where a pulley was locked up(didn't budge from start up). The motor was turning but not fast enough to crank the engine and it had a serp belt and it was wearing the belt down, the belt had good tension on it. His problem wasn't it cranking, he said the motor wouldn't turn at all. Even knowing that I told him already to take the belt off and check anyway just incase. So there is no reason to repeat what someone has already said pretending to be some genious that knows everything.

Just want to say that I've seen a motor turning over with someone else in the vehicle with the key where a pulley was locked up(didn't budge from start up). The motor was turning but not fast enough to crank the engine and it had a serp belt and it was wearing the belt down, the belt had good tension on it. His problem wasn't it cranking, he said the motor wouldn't turn at all. Even knowing that I told him already to take the belt off and check anyway just incase. So there is no reason to repeat what someone has already said pretending to be some genious that knows everything.

Man you got balls snapping on Rich like that....:cwm27:

1. He is a genius, and he does know nearly everything.

2. You spelled genius wrong, genius.

3. There's no room for attitudes here, we're all just trying to help the guy. Settle down....

Man you got balls snapping on Rich like that....:cwm27:

1. He is a genius, and he does know nearly everything.

2. You spelled genius wrong, genius.

3. There's no room for attitudes here, we're all just trying to help the guy. Settle down....

Who cares about spelling on these things anyway alot of people spell things wrong on the keyboard, and in my case it was probably wasn't a typo I just misspelled it. Who cares. But either way I already told the person to do the same thing pretty much, once someone already gives a person one option to look at give them another idea or wait till they come back and let you know what happened when they tried whatever and go from there.

Who cares about spelling on these things anyway alot of people spell things wrong on the keyboard, and in my case it was probably wasn't a typo I just misspelled it. Who cares. But either way I already told the person to do the same thing pretty much, once someone already gives a person one option to look at give them another idea or wait till they come back and let you know what happened when they tried whatever and go from there.

Really? Because it sounds like you just wanna run the show.

You missed things I wrote...rich may have missed things you wrote. No need to be calling people out over it.

You really wanna get in bad with two moderators over stupid shit like this?

Really? Because it sounds like you just wanna run the show.

You missed things I wrote...rich may have missed things you wrote. No need to be calling people out over it.

You really wanna get in bad with two moderators over stupid shit like this?

No and I probably I guess owe an apology so I'm sorry. But there have been some threads I've tried to read before where like 10 people have said the exact same thing and it just takes extra time to go through and read everything because of it but yeah that was outta line so I'm sorry.

No and I probably I guess owe an apology so I'm sorry. But there have been some threads I've tried to read before where like 10 people have said the exact same thing and it just takes extra time to go through and read everything because of it but yeah that was outta line so I'm sorry.

I appreciate that....and I understand what you are saying...

But it just happens. Some people don't read the entire postings or jump the gun before reading it all...

I do understand the importance of keeping the person working on the car on a linear track in diagnosis...you are correct there.

No harm, no foul. As you were :iceslolan

Ctwright you gave some good advice. You got to understand sometimes people repeat what others said not to take away credit from the person who post the same info first. Sometimes you get to typing and you simply type up the same likely causes. It really just reinforces the first person's advice.

I tend to agree with you that the starters and batteries on a V6 would usually slip the serpentine belt at least some if a pulley was locked up. It would likely slip it while the engine was running too. A running V6 under load can even shred a belt.

But, maybe he has a weak battery and starter so like you and Rich said unhooking the belt and checking the pulleys would be a good idea. Rich gave some good advice for the guy to check what engine he had so we could get a better idea of what the problem might be. The 3100 was susceptable to broken camshafts somewhere around this year.

I simply figured the most likely scenario based on the guy's description. I was betting that the engine was probably siezed up and is probably a 3100. The original poster is not giving very good info. Now it seems he might have a 3800. No offense intended to the guy but if a person doesn't understand things like where the crank pulley is, a long ratchet, and breaker bar, they really should do some more reading before trying to fix cars IMO. I mean most guys with basic knowledge could tell a 3800 from a 3100 at a glance 10 feet away.

Anyway, on the 3800 Gen II (?) the engine's oil pump is driven off the crank I believe and it's less likely it would break and seize up. Even if he has a 3800, something could be siezed up though. The 3800 engines also has a balancer shaft.

ok so i do have a 3100 engine, according to the 8th leter on my vin.


now i cant even crank the damnable thing, security light flashing and when i turn the key brakes light comes on?!

how do i reset the anti-theft crap?

ok so i do have a 3100 engine, according to the 8th leter on my vin.


now i cant even crank the damnable thing, security light flashing and when i turn the key brakes light comes on?!

how do i reset the anti-theft crap?

This car should have passlock II so it won't disable the starter even if the theft security sets. It will reset its self with the key in ON for 10 mins.

left key in ON for well over 30 minutes (forgot about it...) and still flashing security light

left key in ON for well over 30 minutes (forgot about it...) and still flashing security light

Did you check if the motor will turn over by hand yet? Several posters went through the trouble of explaining all that. I'm starting to think you are clowning around. The things you are saying don't really add up. Forget about the theft light for now. As I said it, it won't keep the starter from cranking the engine anyway. Find out if the engine will even rotate and if it it sound in the first place.

ok so i do have a 3100 engine, according to the 8th leter on my vin.


now i cant even crank the damnable thing, security light flashing and when i turn the key brakes light comes on?!

how do i reset the anti-theft crap?

Please explain what you mean by you can't crank the thing. Do you mean by hand or by turning the key to start? Threads like this are very frustrating because you the OP won't directly answer any of the advice, so everyone keeps speculating.

Ctwright, thanks for the apology, although you may want to watch how you address a moderator's response in the future. Not all mods are as easy going as me, luckily I don't take myself too seriously. My advice was mostly reiterating what you had said (except I suggested trying the starter where you said to roll it by hand) because the OP hadn't responded. I have seen many a locked up serp belt driven accessory stop the starter from turning the engine over, and that is what I was getting at.

ok well i dont have a 1/2" driver (what my niegbor, a mechanic, said id need to turn the engine by hand.) so fa this is where im at.

batter has been fully charged, serp belt is off, and anti-theft is engaged (triggered?)

cranking by key : security light blinking, turning key causes "brakes" light to come on, no sound at all from engine.used to make a solid click from the starter.

im not kidding around, i've just been very busy recently, im struggling to get by as is. and i need this car working, but im starting to think its a lost cause...

hmmmm, i cant think of too much else to put in here.

i did try connecting the ignition and the soliniod wires with a pair of pliers, and the starter whirred loosly for about 3 seconds, is that bad?

I think your security light issue is what is keeping the starter from turning with the key. Most GM vehicles 99-newer disable both the fuel pump and starter circuits when the security is tripped.

If you pull the spark plugs out, you should be able to easily roll the engine over by hand with a regular ratchet. With the plugs in, you're fighting against engine compression and would need a 1/2" drive breaker bar.

When you jump the starter solenoid, you have to jump from the big battery post to the small "s" terminal. If you jump from the battery post to the wire that comes out of the end of the starter motor, the drive won't engage and all it will do is spin.

i own a 98 lumina and i somtimes have the same problem with the security light if it is blinking the car will not start it is part of the pass key system if the light is blinking it is telling the starter and the fuel pump to shutdown so try going in your fuse box and removing the anti theft fuse for like 5 mins and then re install it that may help your problem and for it not wanting to turn over the other guys here are right if the harmonic balancer will not turn with a breaker bar then it is internal as for the cam shaft they are also right ...as i have snapped mine once already bad news is if that is the case and your freind kept driving it you might as well pull the engine and get a used one cause he would have made the camshaft journal spin and make the engine worthless Sorry