I am stumped.
I am still having this humming noise at around 50 mph, it will go away around 60mph and then again it starts around 70mph.

So i wanted to update every one on what's going on with this car:

It is a 2000 toyota camry 5S-FE, and has 95,000 miles on it. I've changed both the drivers side and passengers side bearings. When i took off the knuckle hub assembly and had Napa change out the bearings, I also took a look at the dust cover to see if maybe it was rubbing against the rotor, and it seemed fine. Nothing else was obstructing the front axle. In addition to the humming noise, my steering wheel shakes slightly when i'm driving at higher speeds, and i noticed one day going over the bridge in st. pete that my car kinda goes up and down bobbing only very slightly, and also swaying side to side, but very slightly. I've also changed my tires after noticing the humming and put brand new tires on. I up with balance and rotation, i've also had an alignment; but the humming noise is still there. I read my haynes manual about the swaying and bobbing and haynes suggests that i look at the stabilizer bar, stabilizer linkage bar, bushings, shocks and struts. Although i don't believe any of these things are causing the humming, i did a thorough look at those parts today on my car.

I took a few detailed photos and posted them in a slideshow. Please take a look. I checked the struts for leakage, looked at the bushings, but i didn't remove the bracket. Now i realize that the bushings are not infront of the bracket but rather inside the bracket. I also looked at the stabilizer bar linkage on both wheels, and the stabilizer bar doesn't look bent. I'm curious about changing the struts but it's pretty expensive, however, i have also heard sounds when i go over bumps. the passengers side wheel makes a few hollow quiet thumps when i go over a bump. kinda like something is creaking around the passengers wheel. I'm stumped about the humming and thumping.


Here is the link to the slideshow. Please let me know if you see anything unusual.

http://s138.photobucket.com/albums/q254/kewallal/suspension/?albumview=slideshow

you may want to check the strut springs around the struts and see if one is broken. by the way what kind of tires did you put on it? but sterring wheel going back and forth sounds like a tire you can get brand new tires and they look good but they could be out around with sterring wheel going back and forth and a tire can sing i call it going down certin roads. but still it sounds like you have loose parts on front causing your steering wheel going back and forth. only other thing i can think of is the rack but it don't sound like rack. can you take it to another place and get alignment checked because they may find your problem?

good luck......

The tires are BF Goodrich i bought at walmart, they also put them on. The alignment was done by a friend of mine who works at a dealership, he hooked it up to the computer and he printed out the report which said that my car didn't need any adjustment. it had all the specs about the toe and camber results. my friend at the dealer was wondering if it could be the rack.

i will check the spring to see if it is broken tomorrow evening.
have you ever heard of a bearing in the rear going bad? The NAPA guy said that sometimes you may think the bearing in the front is going bad, when it could be from the rear.

Another piece of info that is important is that this humming started happening after my uncle took a look at my car and it fell off the jack. I had another fella at Just Brakes stick a pry bar in between the rim and the dust cover to straighten it out. The scratching scraping noise went away but humming did not.

Some Camrys around that vintage had trouble with the front strut mounts. I am not sure if the 2000 vintage had the problem in some of the cars or not. The symptoms were noises like you describe when you go over a bump.

See the following post in the FAQ thread:
http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=3202784&postcount=19

Thanks Brian R., i read the post in the FAQ thread below and the rattle is exactly as described in the post. I will be sure to look into changing it.

I am a bit confuzed at the bottom of the post under "Hints for the Wise" the poster talks about how the problem is most likely the strut mount and not the bearing. Now looking at the suspension diagram at the top, i don't see "strut mount" ... which part is he referring to? Does he mean suspension support?

Well, i looked the part "strut mount" on autopartswarehouse.com and it costs about $75.00 for both the strut mount and bearing (comes packaged together). The only problem is that the parts are sold by "their location on the car", front left or front right. i don't know which side the passengers side is. Is the passengers side a front right, or front left?
http://www.autopartswarehouse.com/search/?N=1725%2B4294965391%2B11784&Ntt=strut+mount



One problem solved, now the humming is still left to fix.

Any ideas? I searched up "front end noise hum" and read a similar thread on a Chevy Blazer, and it was diagnosed with a bad right lower ball joint, idler arm, and wheel bearing assembly. . I already had the bearing changed, however would you suggest replacing the ball joint and idler arm? I thought you could only tell if the ball joint was bent. How can you tell if a ball joint is bad?

Some Camrys around that vintage had trouble with the front strut mounts. I am not sure if the 2000 vintage had the problem in some of the cars or not. The symptoms were noises like you describe when you go over a bump.

See the following post in the FAQ thread:
http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=3202784&postcount=19

Well, i looked the part "strut mount" on autopartswarehouse.com and it costs about $75.00 for both the strut mount and bearing (comes packaged together). The only problem is that the parts are sold by "their location on the car", front left or front right. i don't know which side the passengers side is. Is the passengers side a front right, or front left?
http://www.autopartswarehouse.com/search/?N=1725%2B4294965391%2B11784&Ntt=strut+mount

The passenger side is the right side of the auto.

One problem solved, now the humming is still left to fix.

Any ideas? I searched up "front end noise hum" and read a similar thread on a Chevy Blazer, and it was diagnosed with a bad right lower ball joint, idler arm, and wheel bearing assembly. . I already had the bearing changed, however would you suggest replacing the ball joint and idler arm? I thought you could only tell if the ball joint was bent. How can you tell if a ball joint is bad?

Fix the strut mount before you do anything else, then continue if you still have another unrelated problem. There is a reasonable chance the humming is related to this problem and will disappear when you replace the strut mount. Good luck. You are doing a great job.

Fix the strut mount before you do anything else.
So i'm having a few problems with compressing the spring to replace the strut mount. The spring compressor i have from autozone has such a long post. And it's giving me a hard time because the long post is hitting the top of the frame. I'm not sure how much i'm supposed to compress the spring. I took some pics and would appreciate it if you could give me some feedback.

And yeah, i put one spring compressor on a certain way, and the other spring compressor on a different way (upside down). i'm not sure which is better. Ugh. When i'm compressing the spring, it's making a creaking sound and it's starting to make me uneasy and uncomfortable. Can you please tell me if that sound is normal?

Here is a link to the photos i took:http://s138.photobucket.com/albums/q254/kewallal/strut/?albumview=slideshow

The creaking is normal. If you grease the compressor tongues and threads, you should not have much noise. The sound is that of the spring twisting as it compresses. If something breaks, you will likely not get any warning.

The only time I had to compress my springs I removed the wheel and placed a block under the suspension arm and put the weight back on the spring. Then I installed the compressor with the spring compressed by the weight of the car. Jacking up the car took the load off the spring and I didn't have to actually tighten the compressor. Position the compressor tongues to grab as many of the coils as possble. I don't know if this is possible with your vehicle, but if you can, it will save you time.

In all honesty, I would advise you to bring it to a mechanic for this work. It is dangerous and I can't advise you to do it yourself, even if you are competent. I would feel very bad if you hurt yourself doing this job with me advising you over the internet on how to do it. Either that or get someone experienced to look over your shoulder as you work with the compressed spring. This is a bad job to learn on by yourself.

Be careful.

The creaking is normal. If you grease the compressor tongues and threads, you should not have much noise. The sound is that of the spring twisting as it compresses. If something breaks, you will likely not get any warning.

The only time I had to compress my springs I removed the wheel and placed a block under the suspension arm and put the weight back on the spring. Then I installed the compressor with the spring compressed by the weight of the car. Jacking up the car took the load off the spring and I didn't have to actually tighten the compressor. Position the compressor tongues to grab as many of the coils as possble. I don't know if this is possible with your vehicle, but if you can, it will save you time.

In all honesty, I would advise you to bring it to a mechanic for this work. It is dangerous and I can't advise you to do it yourself, even if you are competent. I would feel very bad if you hurt yourself doing this job with me advising you over the internet on how to do it. Either that or get someone experienced to look over your shoulder as you work with the compressed spring. This is a bad job to learn on by yourself.

Be careful.

Yeah i put a big brick under the ball joint, and i have a jack under the control arm. I'm so close, yet i don't want any mistakes to happen. Is there going to be any problems if i uncompress the spring when i take the spring compressors off in trying to get everything back on and seated properly?

In all honesty, i thought i could do this job fairly quickly because i watched a video on replacing a spring on the advanced auto parts website:
http://www.advanceautoparts.com/english/youcan/mediaplayer/mediaplayer_clinics.asp

I clicked on the shock and strut replacement video at the top left menu. I also read my haynes manual, which said that when the spring is compressed, i should be able to wiggle and jiggle it up and down. I'm not sure how to proceed... I have an idea about putting 4 spring compressors on it, maybe that might be safer?

I have just called my friend who works at the dealer to see if he will watch beside me while i work on it.

Any advice? or tricks that can help me out are appreciated.

From the repair manual, you don't have to compress the spring to remove the strut (p. SA-35). You compress the springs with the spring compressors while holding the strut in a vise once the strut is removed from the car. Then you can disassemble the strut safely.

Don't you have a copy of the repair manual?

Don't you have a copy of the repair manual?

yes, i used my repair manual while fixing this.

i was confuzed because my 2 sources said contradictory steps about the compressors. the haynes repair manual said to remove the strut and then compress it, where as the advance auto parts video said to compress the spring before removing it.

I ended up removing the strut and then compressing it. i had such a hard time removing the stabilizer bar link from the strut, but eventually i wiggled and it came out. I changed the strut mount, and test drove the car and the rattling on the passengers side is gone, however the humming has not.

p.s. i called my friend who is a mechanic and got some advice in deciding how to proceed.

any ideas of where the humming is coming from?

What I meant was: Don't you have a copy of the Toyota FSM which is stickied at the top of this forum?

Does the humming occur when you are coasting or while you are under power or both? What about on curves? What conditions make it worse or better?

Another piece of info that is important is that this humming started happening after my uncle took a look at my car and it fell off the jack. I had another fella at Just Brakes stick a pry bar in between the rim and the dust cover to straighten it out. The scratching scraping noise went away but humming did not.
When you say you had a mechanic stick a pry bar in between the rim and the dust cover to straighten it out are you talking about the brake rotor and the dust shield?

Also you mentioned you had the front wheel bearings replaced. Was this done before or after the car fell off the jack? Most likely there is something that was damaged as a result of the car slipping off the jack and hitting the ground.:frown:

Regards,
JOET/CAMRY

When you say you had a mechanic stick a pry bar in between the rim and the dust cover to straighten it out are you talking about the brake rotor and the dust shield?

Also you mentioned you had the front wheel bearings replaced. Was this done before or after the car fell off the jack? Most likely there is something that was damaged as a result of the car slipping off the jack and hitting the ground.:frown:

Regards,
JOET/CAMRY
Yes immeadiately after the car fell off the jack, i noticed a humming sound and a loud screaching noise. Then, a mechanic stuck a pry bar in between the brake rotor and the dust sheild which fixed the loud screaching sound. A humming noise kept happening though. The humming happens around 50-55mph and again at 70-75 mph. Every speed in between those it sounds fine. I've received advice that it might be the wheel bearing, so i had both front wheel bearings changed out in the last 6 months. The humming noise still didn't go away. Yesterday i also changed out the strut mount on the passengers side (for an unrelated problem). The humming didn't go away.


Does the humming occur when you are coasting or while you are under power or both? What about on curves? What conditions make it worse or better?
The humming occurs while i am coasting exactly at 55mph and also when i am coasting at 70mph. It also occurs under power (if i'm accelerating past 55mph it will hum while going through 55mph then stop around 60mph. if i keep accelerating, the humming will start at 70mph and end at 75mph). The same happens when i decelerage (if i let off the gas at 80 mph, when the odometer drops to 70mph it will start humming, then the hum will go away below 70mph, and if the speed keeps dropping the car will hum again at 55mph. On curves it still hums at 55 and at 70mph. As far as conditions that make the hum worse or better, I really hear the loud hum more when I decelerate (let off the gas) around 70 and 55.

Today i asked my friends sitting in the car if they could pinpoint where the noise was coming from. The passenger said she thinks it hums from her side. the rear passenger sitting behind the drivers side said she thinks the hum is on her side. I, the driver, always think the hum comes from my side.

When your car fell off the jack, was the wheel and tire on the car or off? Which side of the car fell (or both?) Was there any parts removed or loosened from the suspension or drivetrain when the car fell? Does it hum louder if you brake from 80 to 40 mph?

Lower srtut boots look pretty bad. Any chance the coil is cutting through the rubber touching metal?

Lower srtut boots look pretty bad. Any chance the coil is cutting through the rubber touching metal?

yeah, the rubber was worn pretty thin and was tearing at some parts where the spring could possibly touch metal.

When you take apart a strut, what would you normally replace while you have the whole thing taken apart.

When your car fell off the jack, was the wheel and tire on the car or off? Which side of the car fell (or both?) Was there any parts removed or loosened from the suspension or drivetrain when the car fell? Does it hum louder if you brake from 80 to 40 mph?

great question!


when my car fell off the jack the wheel and tire was off of the front drivers side. The front drivers side was jacked up with a sissor jack. the parking brake wasn't applied and the car rolled forward as my uncle pulled off the caliper from the rotor. when the car rolled forward, the (front driver side) rotor hit the pavement.

There were no parts loosened from the suspension or drivetrain. The only part taken off was the wheel on the drivers side. My uncle was trying to pull off the caliper without removing the 2 bolts. he's an idiot.

And when i brake from 80 to 40, it hums louder, but only at those 2 invervals (at 70 and 50 mph).

Just upper and lower rubber shells and of course upper stut Bearings. Hope that may be it for every dam bushing can cause a funny sound. Good luck

"when the car rolled forward, the (front driver side) rotor hit the pavement."

Have you ever checked the rotor for warpage or simply replaced it?

Mike

Don't no Mike, never happened to me, if the rotor touched the ground, you lost your wheel, or your rotor just cracked and fell out, WHILE PARKED. Wayne just adad and gran dad.

"when the car rolled forward, the (front driver side) rotor hit the pavement."

Have you ever checked the rotor for warpage or simply replaced it?

Mike

No i have never checked the rotor for warpage and i haven't replaced it either. A few months ago i didn't do my brake job in time and it scored that same rotor that hit the ground, so i plan on replacing the rotor eventually. Since it scored the rotor i've been having the pedal pulsate when i press the brake; so i know the rotor is now warped.

Do i have to replace the rotor in "pairs" or can i just replace that one that hit the ground.

And since the rotor hit the ground, do i have to replace the rotor or can i simply get it machined.

You can replace just one rotor if the other one is fairly similar. If it is in bad shape or machined down to the limit, then I would replace both. Replace the driver's side one, don't machine it.

I don't think that damage to the rotor is what is causing the humming. I bet that there is hidden damage to part of the drivetrain, like the splines of the driveshaft, hub, or outer CV joint. I would put my money on the hub. Check the straightness, length, and threads on the hub bolts. If one is stretched or bent, that may be the problem and it's an easy fix.

You can replace just one rotor if the other one is fairly similar. If it is in bad shape or machined down to the limit, then I would replace both. Replace the driver's side one, don't machine it.

I don't think that damage to the rotor is what is causing the humming. I bet that there is hidden damage to part of the drivetrain, like the splines of the driveshaft, hub, or outer CV joint. I would put my money on the hub. Check the straightness, length, and threads on the hub bolts. If one is stretched or bent, that may be the problem and it's an easy fix.

Do you think the hidden damage is on the same location that hit the ground? or do i have to take off all 4 wheels to look at every hub.

if it's just looking at the drivers side, i can easily take a look this week.

No, but rotors are cheap. Unless your racing do them both, teust me.

Do you think the hidden damage is on the same location that hit the ground? or do i have to take off all 4 wheels to look at every hub.

if it's just looking at the drivers side, i can easily take a look this week.

It almost has to be the wheel that hit the ground.

hi brian,

i'm going to take a look at the hub next week and i wanted to go over a few things with you. I just took a look at the FSM suspension and axle. I see why you suggested the humming could be coming from either the hub, splines of the driveshaft, or cv. So next week when i take off the drivers side wheel, i'm going to check to see if the hub bolts are bent or damaged, and if they are, i should get a new hub assembly pressed in. I will also buy a new rotor, since the current one hit the ground.

But what if i don't see any damage to the hub bolts? Are there any tricks to knowing whether the splines on the driveshaft are damaged other than the obvious--- look and see if the grooves are damaged?

Do you think its smart to just replace driveshaft anyway? while i have everything removed with enough clearance. Napaonline.com has it refurbished for $47.89/core$11.00
i think the driveshaft is the part with the splines and the inner cv as well, correct me if i'm wrong.

Lastly, the third thing you suggested was damage to the CV. I haven't heard any clicking while driving/turning, and the last time i looked at it, the hard outer boot was in great shape (no cracks). Should i automatically rule out the CV?

my gut tells me it may be the splines on the driveshaft and the boots, because when i saw the car fall off the jack, the rotor was still on the hub. it didn't move at all, it was probably still rusted on. (everytime i replaced the wheel bearing the rotor is always rusted on, and it's a pain in the neck to take it off).

Well i'm moving to New York next week, and i will be driving my car from florida to new york. I will shoot myself if i have to hear humming during the entire drive.

hi brian,

i'm going to take a look at the hub next week and i wanted to go over a few things with you. I just took a look at the FSM suspension and axle. I see why you suggested the humming could be coming from either the hub, splines of the driveshaft, or cv. So next week when i take off the drivers side wheel, i'm going to check to see if the hub bolts are bent or damaged, and if they are, i should get a new hub assembly pressed in. I will also buy a new rotor, since the current one hit the ground.

But what if i don't see any damage to the hub bolts? Are there any tricks to knowing whether the splines on the driveshaft are damaged other than the obvious--- look and see if the grooves are damaged?

Do you think its smart to just replace driveshaft anyway? while i have everything removed with enough clearance. Napaonline.com has it refurbished for $47.89/core$11.00
i think the driveshaft is the part with the splines and the inner cv as well, correct me if i'm wrong.

Lastly, the third thing you suggested was damage to the CV. I haven't heard any clicking while driving/turning, and the last time i looked at it, the hard outer boot was in great shape (no cracks). Should i automatically rule out the CV?

my gut tells me it may be the splines on the driveshaft and the boots, because when i saw the car fall off the jack, the rotor was still on the hub. it didn't move at all, it was probably still rusted on. (everytime i replaced the wheel bearing the rotor is always rusted on, and it's a pain in the neck to take it off).

Well i'm moving to New York next week, and i will be driving my car from florida to new york. I will shoot myself if i have to hear humming during the entire drive.


I don't know any way of determining what shape the splines are in without inspection. I may be wrong, but I believe in general, splines are pretty difficult to damage in your situation. It is more likely that there is a crack somewhere in the area of the splines, rather than visual damage to the splines themselves. This is just a guess since your situation is unique. If you find damaged lug bolts, just replace them all. They are easy to press out and pull in from the rear with some washers and the lug nuts.

I am surprised that you have replaced the wheel bearing repeatedly. Is it possible you didn't preload the bearing correctly and a bad bearing is the source of the noise?

If you replace the half-shaft (which is probably a good idea since you don't yet know the source of the noise), don't forget that you can leave the portion of the half-shaft inside the differential and only replace the CV joint and outer part of the half-shaft. Getting the inner part of the shaft out of the differential can be a serious problem if it is the original. I doubt the CV joint is the source of the noise, but that doesn't make it a sure thing.

I am surprised that you have replaced the wheel bearing repeatedly. Is it possible you didn't preload the bearing correctly and a bad bearing is the source of the noise?


well i actually replaced both the drivers side and passengers side wheel bearing. I took off the knuckle with the hub and brought it to Napa and had them do the press work with new bearings (a few napa stores actually have a shop where they do stuff like presswork). the guys in the shop are really old fellas. they looked experienced, so i assumed they would have done the pre-load. the humming noise was still there after all that work.

You said the damaged lug bolts are easy to press out. I don't have a press, but you said i could use some washers and lug nuts? i'm trying to visualize how to press them out, but i don't understand where the washers and lug nuts are used. would a c-clamp or caliper compressor with a pad work?

And i always have problems getting the old rusted rotor off. i usually spray it down with PB, but even then, its still a killer to get it off. any ideas about getting this rusted rotor off. (when i take it into the shop i usually bring the knuckle w/hub and rusted rotor)lol.

so here's a recap since this thread deals with different problems:

when my uncle was looking at my brakes the car fell off the jack. the drivers side wheel/tire was off and the rotor hit the ground. now when i'm driving there is a loud humming noise at 55mph and 70mph. In between those speeds the humming goes away. This happens when i'm driving straight. No humming specifically when i'm turning right or left. When i brake at 70mph the humming slows down a bit, but it still hums and it will eventually go away when the speed gets way below 70mph. If i'm driving at 70mph and i let off the gas and coast the humming is noticably louder as the car naturally slows itself down until the speed gets way below 70mph, then the noise will disappear.

I've had an alignment, tire balance, and when the tires were worn out, i had tires changed. the brakes are good, however my rotor that hit the ground is warped which i'll be replacing next week. i've changed the hub bearing on both the drivers side and passengers side, but the humming is still there. It's a loud hum, i have to talk louder to speak to the person next to me.

Be sure that you rent or buy all the instruments you need to check clearances and backlash tolerances as you disassemble the hub and driveshafts. You might find something that is out of spec and it may be invisible to your eye. Check everything as in the Toyotal FSM removal, disassembly and assembly procedures. The appropriate measuring tools are pretty cheap as long as you don't opt for aircraft engine quality dial indicators and micrometers, etc. :)

do you remember what the pre-load on the bearing should be?

I want to call the shop guys to ask if they pre-load the bearings before they press them into the hub. Last night when i was driving on the interstate, i heard the loud hum at 70mph, and the hum sounds like something is spinning as fast as the wheel is moving.

Sorry, wrong word, not preload, backlash - measured while the hub iis assembled to the axle. The backlash and hub deviation are both 0.05 mm max. See page SA-10 of the FSM.

Sorry, wrong word, not preload, backlash - measured while the hub iis assembled to the axle. The backlash and hub deviation are both 0.05 mm max. See page SA-10 of the FSM.


so when i went to take off the caliper, i noticed the caliper bolt was still sticking. i lubed it up with Permatex Anti-Seize- it is silver. it's the same packet i used to put on my spark plug threads.

is that the right stuff to use?

Some people use antiseize compound, some use a high temperature synthetic brake grease, and I have been told by a few techs that they prefer a product called Sylglide. All three are good choices. Just make sure the bolt itself isn't rusty. If it is, it needs to be replaced and the hole inside the mounting bracket needs to be cleaned of any internal rust.

Mike