The Great Debate

I change my oil today and I have to add to the debate of how much oil the 3800 takes. A lot people and sources say 4.5qt. I say 5qt and my owners manual says the same thing. When I changed my oil I put 1 gallon (qt) of oil in first turned the car on to get the oil circulating and then a turned it off and let it sit for a while. Went and read the oil dipstick and it was under the add mark. So I added qt of oil and it filled it up all the way but not past the cross hatches. Maybe the changed some things. I do have one of the few 3800's that burns oil though.

Here's what it says in my manual

http://i538.photobucket.com/albums/ff346/dee1538/manuel.jpg

5 Qts. and my level is dead on the full mark.

What debate? As always, fill it until the dipstick is satisfied.

What debate?

:werd:

I don't care what GM car it is with the L36 or L67 SII 3800 engines but 5 quarts is too much and it is over the max mark/lines on the dipstick meaning it is overfilled. Sounds like someone may need glasses. :shakehead

The most important part if there is any debate is the oil filter. I no longer recommend or will use AC Delco PF47 oil filters. Poorly designed anti-drainback valves. Now made by Champion for Delco based on the crappy Ecore design. Stick with Mobil 1 or WIX brands. Mobil 1 oil filters are made by Champion too but based on a performance design.

BTW - Does this PA have the VIN "L" or VIN "K" 3800 engine?

I use and have always used 5 Quarts, at the same time I use the PF52 Equivalent Filter which is a hair longer than the PF47... So 5 quarts is what I fill with on all of my 3800's due to the filter size..

With most all 3800's over the last 20+ years you will be most likely to use 4.5 Quarts... Fill it to the top of the cross hatch as stated...

C Man

Don't feel bad... I have had 2 L36's that use a little bit of oil... And one that never used any at all...

it's a vin K and I use a Pureolator filter. The emission people made me mad today. The said my car had blue smoke when I pushed the gas pedal. Passed inspection with flying colors since I had the car and to make it worse I slammed on the gas pedal harder than I did when I was at the inspection place and no smoke. :mad: And I sat in the line for and hour and a half.

it's a vin K and I use a Pureolator filter. The emission people made me mad today. The said my car had blue smoke when I pushed the gas pedal. Passed inspection with flying colors since I had the car and to make it worse I slammed on the gas pedal harder than I did when I was at the inspection place and no smoke. :mad: And I sat in the line for and hour and a half.

Ahhh... Mine used to do that too a little... And only once in a very blue moon.. I almost think the 96-96 L36 May have been a tad looser than the 97-05 series II engines..

My Cousins 95 Burned a little oil like mine did.. The Current 96 engine Burns a little as well... But the 99 Motor I had didn't burn a drop...

Mine made it to the 161k mark... You should get further than I ever did..lol

it's a vin K and I use a Pureolator filter. The emission people made me mad today. The said my car had blue smoke when I pushed the gas pedal. Passed inspection with flying colors since I had the car and to make it worse I slammed on the gas pedal harder than I did when I was at the inspection place and no smoke. :mad: And I sat in the line for and hour and a half.How long did the engine idle while you were sitting in the line?

The engine was idle in the line for 1.5 hours. I probably should have revved it a little to clear out any oil seeping past the valve seals. Usually I only have to wait in the inspection lane for about 15 minutes but I went when it was busy instead of the morning like I usally do.

I probably should have revved it a little to clear out any oil seeping past the valve seals. You hit the nail on the head (first swing)! :grinyes:

:werd:

I don't care what GM car it is with the L36 or L67 SII 3800 engines but 5 quarts is too much and it is over the max mark/lines on the dipstick meaning it is overfilled. Sounds like someone may need glasses. :shakehead

The most important part if there is any debate is the oil filter. I no longer recommend or will use AC Delco PF47 oil filters. Poorly designed anti-drainback valves. Now made by Champion for Delco based on the crappy Ecore design. Stick with Mobil 1 or WIX brands. Mobil 1 oil filters are made by Champion too but based on a performance design.

BTW - Does this PA have the VIN "L" or VIN "K" 3800 engine?

I won't use AC Delco filters anymore either after an incident I had 3 years ago.
I changed my oil and filter as usual, and found my oil pressure was all over the map! Never steady.
I took the AC filter I had installed off and compared it to the old one I took off and the new one looked to be of lesser quality.
I put the old one back on until I could resolve the issue.
I contacted AC Delco about it because I thought it may be a counterfeit part.
Turns out the old filter which seemed to be of better quality was a Mexican made filter, and the new filter was made in the USA by Delphi.

I would post pics or a link to my thread on v8 buick.com where I posted photos of both filters and the reply I received from AC Delco, but not sure if any linking to photos or other boards is allowed here.
If it is ok, I will post them.

I only go with NAPA Gold filters now which are made by WIX.

In Buying the AC Delco Filters, from what I understand the PF47 with a sticker is the real deal... The PF47 with the Painted on label is not the one used BY the dealerships, and sold at auto parts stores... I have to date had 0 issues with the Sticker PF47 Filters..

Bob the 1995 Park Avenue has the L36 Vin K in it..

Its funny tho, at the same mileage Cman has mine started to do the little smoke thin once in a while on a warm start...

I think I had piston and ring issues tho.. And had developed more and more piston slap towards the end of my engines life...

Bob the 1995 Park Avenue has the L36 Vin K in it.. In order to help clarify the quote above for other members; the 1995 PA came equipped with both the L67 Vin-I, and the VIN K, depending on which option you have. The Ultra had only the Vin-I the Series I in 1995. C man, you have a valve stem seal problem!

BTW, Wix filters are made by Affinia Group, which continues to outsource production to China, India & Mexico! Good luck, especially if you get one “Huncho in Mexico”!

I Kinda figured that when I first got the car because I did research and found out that the seals for the 94-95 years were prone to faliure. Plus the fact that I burn a quart of oil ever 1200-1400 miles with no oil leakage on the ground drew me to this conclusion. My question is how hard of a job is putting in new seals and is it worth it. I kinda want to do it but don't know if it beyond my level or worth it or if I will do more damage than harm.

Of course, the valve covers will need to be removed first. Bring the first cylinder to TDC (with both valves closed). You will now need an air compressor and a hose to screw into the spark plug hole to apply the compressed air to the cylinder to keep the valves in place. Remove the rocker arms, one @ a time and use a valve spring compressor to remove the spring & keeper. Once the spring & keeper are removed, the valve stem seal can be replaced. Do not use the original “O-ring seals”, use an improved “umbrella” viton seal available @ ZZPerformance.com. Click Here (http://www.zzperformance.com/grand_prix/products1.php?id=125&catid=104)

If you feel like this is more than you can handle, get some estimates from several trusted shops. Get the viton seals first! It is about a 4-hr job from start to finish!

I can see myself doing the front side but I'm worried doing the rear side Is it much harder?

Yes, of course the back side is more difficult, but not that bad. The front seals can be changed in about 1-1/2 hr and about 2-1/2 hr on the rear. The rear is just more difficult to reach.

Here is the link to my thread.

http://www.v8buick.com/showthread.php?t=76424

In Buying the AC Delco Filters, from what I understand the PF47 with a sticker is the real deal... The PF47 with the Painted on label is not the one used BY the dealerships, and sold at auto parts stores... I have to date had 0 issues with the Sticker PF47 Filters..



Don, what I found out is the AC Delco oil filters such as PF47 and the PF52 we are getting all this negative anecdotal info on are the ones with the affixed label not the painted on ones. The filter is blue with an affixed label. The part numbers match to include the 8 digit GM part number. Says Product of USA on the painted top of the filter. These you will find at the auto parts stores like Pep Boys and Advance and Walmart which exactly matches what the GM dealers have which are supposedly the bulk fleet ones. To the best of my knowledge GM/Delco no longer makes any of their oil filters and the plants in Mexico and the US were shut down. These are now all outsourced by GM to primarily Champion Labs. The design is now based on the Champion Labs Ecore design which has a questionable re-designed anti-drain back and bypass valve.

Symptoms about a year or more ago were erratic oil pressure readings. The most current complaint is after doing a routine oil change and using a AC Delco oil filter such as PF47 owners with SII 3800 engines are getting a dry start condition. The engine clatters and makes noises at cold start up after the car has sat for a period of at least 8 hours or more. Also, you may hear lifter tick for up to at least two minutes. I had the same issue a few months ago and thought maybe it was a fluke but good thing there was no engine damage from what I can see. Some of the local GM dealers had similar issues and submitted WTF info to GM/Delco. Just to be safe until this is all sorted out or corrected I stopped using AC Delco oil filters in any of my GM cars. Better safe than sorry.

On the latest tests by these guys that have the time and resources AC Delco oil filters are no longer recommended. Updated info effective around Jan 2008. See links below.


http://www.knizefamily.net/minimopar/oilfilters/opinions.html

http://www.knizefamily.net/minimopar/oilfilters/index.html

Very good info and thanks Bob..

I will heed that warning... The AC Delco Filters I have left I bought a couple of years back and have had no issues with... I think I bought a couple of cases at the time and still have a few left.. My Other choice for an oil filter is Puralator... :)

I've only used Puralator filters since I had my car, specifically Premium Plus filters, but downgraded to the regular Puralator Pure One filters, because I see no justification of me paying almost double to filter out 3% more contaminants.:disappoin

I've only used Puralator filters since I had my car, specifically PURE ONE filters, but downgraded to the regular Puralator filters, because I see no justification of me paying almost double to filter out 3% more contaminants.:disappoin

I use the havoline filters.... Made By Puralator.. I use the longer filter as I do have the room for them on all of the 3800's I have..

You'll see the difference... Not a great pic for many reasons but gives you the general idea..
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v294/Jr3800/oilfilter.jpg

:werd:

There is nothing wrong with Purolator oil filters. I've used both the Premium Plus and Pure One versions with good results and no issues. Obviously better than AC Delco and Fram. I started using WIX filters due to being above average and the cost is not bad. I get a discount from one of the local auto parts stores that carry the WIX product line. However, I use solely Mobil 1 oil filters in my high performance vehicles along with synthetic motor oil.

However, I use solely Mobil 1 oil filters in my high performance vehicles along with synthetic motor oil. :bigthumb: The same combination I use on all my vehicles, except the Roadmaster! The only reason I don't use synthetic in it; is because the original owner used Pennzoil 10-W-40 from day one and @ 100K it don't burn a drop, so why mess with a good thing. :)

BTW, Wix filters are made by Affinia Group, which continues to outsource production to China, India & Mexico! Good luck, especially if you get one “Huncho in Mexico”!

Yup, definitely part of Affinia now. :uhoh:.........:lol:

Well Bo, I can safely say that all WIX filters are made in the good ole USA. Gastonia, NC to be exact. Also, has the "Nascar Performance" label on them.

One other reason why I like WIX is the oil filter has a silicone anti-drain back valve versus the old nitrile type. For any one interested the oil filter part number for the L36/L67 SII 3800 engine is 51040 and retails for around $10.40. I get the oil filter for $6.31. Visit www.wixfilters.com for a distributor near you and specs.

Where can I get an air hose adapter for the spark plug hole(s)?

:feedback: Could someone please answer my question. I going to borrow an air compressor from someone. do I need an adapter or fitting for the spark plug wells. so I can keep the valves up. If so were can I buy it. Plan on doing the job Saturday and need to get the materials tomorrow. I don't really know anything about air compressors.

Try Mac tools or A Snapon Dealer.That is where I got mine.

I solved my own problem. I went to O'riley and found the spark plug hose adapter. Its amazing I live half-a-mile or less from 3 major autoparts stores:Advance Auto, Autozone, and O'riley. Never went to O'riley much but I will now. They have compentent people and good customer service. I hate autozone even though there headquarters are located were I live. Now only if a NAPA was close by.:biggrin:

I hope you have a torque wrench and know how to use it when you reinstall the rocker arms. Do you have a FSM or Chilton’s manual? If so, follow the torque specifications for the rockers and valve covers. Be sure to install new valve cover gaskets. BTW, what kind of valve stem seals did you get?

I have the Haynes manuel. I have acess to a torque wrench. I probably pick up some gaskets tommorrow. Do I need any extra sealant with them? The valve stems that I got were from Advance Auto Parts. They were Labled Fel-pro. I didn't want to buy them at first because they were only like $14.50 so I thought they wouldn't be high quality but I did since i didn't want to wait for stuff to arrive. Turns out that they are actually Viton seals, says so on the box. :naughty: So I guess I got some good seals for a very good price.

I probably pick up some gaskets tommorrow. Do I need any extra sealant with them?

For the valve covers? No extra sealant. However, stick with the FelPro valve cover gaskets kit which should come with the valve cover bolt grommets/seals.

:swear:Did some of the valve stem seal job. I'm only going to do one side. This is one of those if it wasn't broke don't fix jobs. I lost the keeper for one valve and I will have to go to the junkyard tommorrow since they're only special order everywhere. It's currently being held in place by vice girp pliers. It took me all day to do it. and it was a pain in the butt. The only easy thing was getting the valves stem seals off which I found out are actually metal seals. I think I want too :chair: myself.

Just being curious... How much oil were you using in 3000 miles?

Well It burns a quart about every 12-1300 miles. I do an oil change every 4000 miles. I put in 5qts initially and have 3-3.25 quarts left and I put a quart in in between changes so I guess i use about 2.5 quarts or so every 3000 miles and 3 between oil changes.

Yeah that is a bit on the high side... Thats actually a lot of oil for a 3800...

But I think towards the end I was doing better than 1 quart for 2000 Miles... My motor was piston slapping so bad I gave up on it and pulled it... I think the bushing in the rod and the wrist pin wore a bait and cause more piston rock and beat up the pistons and the rings.. I always did have some oil burning tho... In the early days it was like 1/2 - 3/4 of a quart in 3000 Miles... Over a year ago I was putting oil in it every 1000 Miles.. The funny thing is 90% of its life was with Synthetic oil... But when you drive them like I do I expect them to wear out..

My Old series I has been great on the oil front...

Not sure to tell you weather or not your issues are all valve stem seal related as the series II engines are not known for beating the Valve Stem seals..