no bus and breaking down in '99 Durango

I have a '99 durango with ~45000 miles. Recently it has been breaking down on me. I feel it lose power until it dies all together. After about 20 minutes it will start again. This has happened 5 times. When it happened today, I was going about 30 mph, when I felt it lose power. The speedometer went to '0" - the 'check engine light came on', the 'fuel pump' light came on (like it does when you run out of gas), then I had this odd message on the odometer that said "NO BUS". This time I had it towed to Pep boys w/o trying to crank it with the hopes they can get a code. I told them about the "no bus" message but they did not seem to know anything about it. I have found this metioned on a few bulletins boards but not with much info. I think perhaps a Service Bulletin from Dodge said something about this. Does anyone have any ideas as to what "no Bus' means and perhaps if this is the cause of me breaking down. What can I do to get it fixed ? Please help. .Thanks!

Yesterday, Pep Boys said they were not able to get any codes from it. They are at a loss. Somewhere I read it was a loose wire harness somewhere..........but where? Where do I begin. Please help.

Take it to a Dodge Dealer and have them check the PCM (Power Control Module). Mine started going out at 30,000 with the same symptoms. PCM's are covered under the 8yr/80,000 mile drivetrain warranty which is a good thing because the part runs about $700 but only takes 20-30 min to replace. Keep in mind, PCM's are very difficult to diagnose. The only way my mechanic could get it tested was to run it idle for 30 minutes and wiggle on the PCM for it to do the exact same thing with losing power and NO BUS in the odometer. Some might say something about voltage from the battery to the PCM which is erroneous because of the alternator passthrough, if voltage were an issue you'd be losing electric windows, radio and trip console electrical as well, which mine never did.

i also had the same problem ..Very had to find...What we did find was that the circuit board in the pcm was getting hot and warping and breaking a circuit causeng the vehicle to shut down...didn't care how fast or how big of a hurry ( my broke going to lunch with my wife on our 20th anniversary) as a temp. fix I learned that I could wiggle the connections at the pcm and hear the fuel pump click back on..

good luck

I had the same issues with my 99 Durango (52K miles, purchased April 03) - truck died at stops and stop lights, especially when it was over 90 degrees and the A/C was on. Took it in to the Dodge dealership (thinking my purchased extended warranty would cover me). $650 dollars later....I had a cracked PDM (covered by 8/80K emission warranty) and a dead BCM (not covered by any warranty).

Good luck.

I also have a '99 Durango with 50000 miles. Recently it has been breaking down on me. I feel it lose power until it dies all together. After about 2 to 20 minutes it will start again. This has happened 25 times. I have taken this vehicle to two shops one being Tom Madsen Dodge in Auburn Washington who claims to be a "five star dealership" They assured me they would take care of this problem so I left it there only for them to tell me that they could not fix a problem that does not exist. I realize that intermittent problem are hard to fid however given all the information pertaining to the problem how is it that they have never heard of such a thing?? Today I was traveling at about 60 MPH and I lost all power. Tach and Speedo went to zero. When I tried to restart I noticed that there were no reading on any gage and the "no Bus" message appeared an this time I cant restart so I open the hood and gently wiggle the connections at the PCM and I hear relays kick on and then my vehicle runs again. This is a serious problem and I am not amused by this situation. I had it towed to my office w/o trying to crank it. When I got there it was like nothing was wrong. Does anyone have any input as to what’s next .Thanks?

1999 Dodge stratus No Bus Code
tried to drive through a flooded street stalled out got the same code and thats what lead me here to see what it meant. Thank You For The Info. Great car other than operator error (Flooding)
76+k no real problems Love my dodge.

most of the time this problem is caused by a crank shaft sensor that is shorting.
what happens is the crank sensor shorts the 5volt supply to ground causing the computer to shut down.
the no bus error occurs because the dash does not see the bus data line from the PCM.

there are 4 sensors that can cause this, the TPS, MAP, cam and crank sensor.
i have never seen anything but the crank sensor short.
most of the time the computer is replaced in error.
the crank sensor is located near the freze plug at the rear of the block.
if you have this problem, spend the $55 and replace the crank shaft sensor........Shango

most of the time this problem is caused by a crank shaft sensor that is shorting.
what happens is the crank sensor shorts the 5volt supply to ground causing the computer to shut down.
the no bus error occurs because the dash does not see the bus data line from the PCM.

there are 4 sensors that can cause this, the TPS, MAP, cam and crank sensor.
i have never seen anything but the crank sensor short.
most of the time the computer is replaced in error.
the crank sensor is located near the freze plug at the rear of the block.
if you have this problem, spend the $55 and replace the crank shaft sensor........Shango

I replaced my crank shaft sensor and my 99 durango ran perfect for two or three months but is now stalling again. What would be causing the crank sensor to go out so soon? Thanks for your input.
Tracy :confused:

I changed the IAC valve today, it stalled once but started right back up, drove it around for awhile and it's ran great since. Time will tell I guess. It's difficult when your check engine light doesn't come on, you have a lot of guess work. My 99 Durango was losing all power and just dying. After about 5 or 10 minutes would start like nothing ever happened. I hope this fixed the problem. Good luck. :iceslolan

What is an IAC valve?

IAC is the Idle Air Control. Good luck.

I posted a reply to wireman today with the history, final fix and temporary workarounds of how I dealt with the "no bus" failure of my D, FYI, Joe.
Wiremans post was about 5.9l. D stalling.

I posted a reply to wireman today with the history, final fix and temporary workarounds of how I dealt with the "no bus" failure of my D, FYI, Joe.
Wiremans post was about 5.9l. D stalling.

Could you re-post this? I cannot find where its posted. We recently purchased a very nice 99 dodge durango for my daughter but, after driving it only a few days it started stalling. Of course it never will at the mechanics. He did replace the Crank Sensor but, today after picking it up it stalled after about 10 minutes of driving. It started again right off but, its dangerous and we don't want to replace a bunch of unneccesary stuff. HELP!!!!

Leah

It seems to be that whatever is causing this should be addressed by Dodge. There's to many Durango's with this problem. No one should have to play a guessing game and replacing parts that don't need replacing. I ended up trading my Durango in for a new car. I'll be leery of buying a Dodge vehicle again. Good luck to everyone with this problem and please post here if you find the fix. It'll benefit a LOT of people. Thanks.

Tracy

It seems to be that whatever is causing this should be addressed by Dodge. There's to many Durango's with this problem. No one should have to play a guessing game and replacing parts that don't need replacing. I ended up trading my Durango in for a new car. I'll be leery of buying a Dodge vehicle again. Good luck to everyone with this problem and please post here if you find the fix. It'll benefit a LOT of people. Thanks.

Tracy

wouldn't it be nice if Dodge did address this problem. It seems they do not care. The problems i've read about address changing these things.

fuel filter
fuel pump
02 sensor
crank sensor
computer

You would think with it happening to so many people even on the new ones they could narrow down this problem to one fix.

Leah

http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=406260

I finally broke down and paid the $800+ to have PCM replaced. That was definitely it. Not long after that water pump cracked so I had to buy pully tool to replace pump. Everything ok for now.

I went ahead and bought a new/remnufactured one from ecu direct.com for $434 and it fixed it. But the trucks being repoed soon. So Ill be pulling the good one out and reinstalling the bad one. So anyone that wants to get rid of their "no bus" problem for good make me an offer and Ill let it go. My email is Custnam@aol.com Thanks
http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/images/statusicon/user_online.gif

The only post in this thread worth reading is the one by Shango. I've seen more shorted 5 volts causeing no bus than any other issue. Its easy to diagnose if its actually broken when testing. Next time you get a no bus message unplug your TPS and measure your 5 volt wire. If it shows 0 volts then check for continuity to ground. Most likely that is what you will find, a short to ground. Then its a matter of unplugging 5 volt sensors one at a time and seeing when and if the short goes away. When the short dissapears then thats the shorted sensor. If you unplug all your 5 volt sensor and still have a short to ground then you need to check the wiring. I have had one Durango that had a shorted wire on top of the trans near the connector for the trans solenoids.

I had this exact problem for a couple of months where it would break down and I checked this website and they gave me some excellent advice.

For starters....if the durango dies, pull over, pop the hood, and wiggle the Power Control Module (pcm). Thats what worked for me. The part is available through NAPA for $289.00. But you have to find someone who knows what you are talking about. I live in Tillamook Oregon and I had to get the information from the Battle Ground Washington NAPA. Schucks and Carquest didn't even know the part existed, they told me my car didn't even have a pcm. Get a Haynes manual and look up how to take it out. It is so easy, it literally pops out. Then you will take it in to Napa and they will send it in to be rebuilt. Then when you get it back to make sure your grounded and pop it in.

I replaced mine about a month ago and I haven't had any problems since.

I have a 99 Durango with 82K on it. Haven't had this problem but now that i've read up on it I'll be aware of it if the car suddenly dies on me. Thanks for the info.

As far as Dodge not caring, that is right on. I had this car for two months, brand new when the fuel pump died. The dealer couldn't get a pump for two weeks because apparently a lot of cars were having this problem and they didn't have enough pumps to go around. They wouldn't give me a loaner because I didn't get the extended warranty, like it was my fault they can't stock a problem part. I even called their headquarters and they told me tough luck. That is why I won't buy another dodge although this one has served me well. They can't even spell customer service, let alone practice it.

I had this exact problem for a couple of months where it would break down and I checked this website and they gave me some excellent advice.

For starters....if the durango dies, pull over, pop the hood, and wiggle the Power Control Module (pcm). Thats what worked for me. The part is available through NAPA for $289.00. But you have to find someone who knows what you are talking about. I live in Tillamook Oregon and I had to get the information from the Battle Ground Washington NAPA. Schucks and Carquest didn't even know the part existed, they told me my car didn't even have a pcm. Get a Haynes manual and look up how to take it out. It is so easy, it literally pops out. Then you will take it in to Napa and they will send it in to be rebuilt. Then when you get it back to make sure your grounded and pop it in.

I replaced mine about a month ago and I haven't had any problems since.


I fixed mine, and am 100% certain what the problem was (at least on my '99 Durango).

I too had the same problem, and read everywhere about it being the crank sensor, idle air controller, ignition switch, as well as the horror stories of replacing the PCM etc and spending thousands of dollars and still having the problem.

I did replace the IAC and still had the problem, and was about to replace the crank sensor, but what didn't make sense is why would it stall, and then reset itself if the sensor was bad. I decided it must be the PCM and ordered a new PCM. A shipping screw up happened, and it didn't get shipped, so I cancelled the order and decided to take some time and diagnose the problem, and I'm glad I did. Read on..

The problem was stalling (usually after the engine is warm. Gauges all go to zero, sometimes it says NO BUS, and won't start for 5 to 20 minutes. Then it starts just fine.

What I did find out was that when I left the key on, and wiggled the middle wiring harness to the PCM I would hear a relay click, and the gauges would come up, and the engine would start first time. I also noticed that if I just opened the hood, and let some heat out, it would do the same thing.

Of course once it cooled and made a connection, I couldn't duplicate the problem again, and had to wait until the next time it died to narrow down the problem some more. (This could be entitled how I spent my summer I guess!). Anyway, in preparation for the next time I took the covers and tape wrap off of the middle harness, suspecting that it was a broken wire.

The next few times it happened I narrowed it down to one of five wires near the front of the middle harness. I could even wiggle the wire bundle at the connector and make it die a couple of times before it cooled down. So by this time I was 100% sure that the PCM was NOT the problem, but the wiring harness was. And I knew I could get it started again.

I tried to duplicate the problem in the driveway by heating the wires with a hair dryer, but couldn''t duplicate it. I removed the PCM and looked at all of the connections with a magnifying glass, and could see that they were all intact, no fractures showing (these are gold contacts). The interior of the PCM is gell filled, so the board is held pretty solid.

I checked on the price of a wiring harness from the dealer, sit down, $1180.00. That wasn't going to fly.

The next few times it happend, I narrowed the problem down to three wires, but realized that the problem was AT the connector, and not the wire. But when it stalled, I could wiggle the wires, and get it to start immediately, so I knew it wasn't the crank sensor or the PCM.

So I was 100% certain that the problem is a connection from the wiring harness to the PCM. The connectors in the harness are aluminum, connecting to a gold plated connector at the PCM. The problem is that heat/moisture etc causes a bad connection, or causes the female connector in the wiring harness to spring open slightly, and make a bad connection.

Cool it down, and you get a connection again. So now that I was sure of what the problem was, I had a choice of spending $1180 for a new wiring harness, building a new harness, replacing the connector, or figuring out a way to get a better connection.

Well the solution was simple. I use some of the Ideal NoAlox electrical joint compound in my boat trailer plug to get a good connection, and keep those connectors from corroding. You get this stuff at Home Depot and other places in the electrical department. It is a thick paste with aluminum filings in a grease, and is used for ensuring good electrical connections in your home power panel.

Anyway, to make a short story long, I removed the middle connector from the PCM, and put a SMALL drop of NoAlox in each of the female ends of the connector. Then I wiped off ALL of the excess so the only spot any of the NoAlox was showing was in each connector. You don't want to put too much and risk shorting any of the PCM pins.

Before adding the NoAlox I could tell when the engine was going to stall, or when it was at risk, because I could see the Tach drop a few hundred revs, then catch itself, and no it was getting close to happening again. After the NoAlox, it has NOT failed or stumbled, not even once!

:)

Thank you Steve for all of your valuable research. I have to agree, you've hit the nail on the head. I too suffer from this lousy engineering issue. As you directed, wiggling the center wiring harness absolutely gets things going again. I just gave mine a little tug and heard things click back on again.

I would like to point out three things that may help others:
1) Where is the PCM? I had a hard time finding it. Basically, if you are standing in front of your durango looking under the hood, look above the left wheel well. There is a rectangular box looking thing with three wiring harnesses plugged into it. On mine, the center harness has a white cap, the other two have black caps. The center one seems to be the issue, as steve pointed out.
2) To get this off, don't remove the "cap" from the wiring harness plug, you have to remove the entire plug.
3) I tried the Nolux, but getting it into the holes isn't easy. The tube has a hole the size of a pencil, and the harness has holes the size of pencil lead. More specifically, the size of a jumbo paper clip. That's what I used to get the Nolux into the holes. I first tried dabbing just a little into each hole without pushing it down deep. I was hoping the pins would then get lightly coated when I plugged it back in. Didn't work. The car died again about a week later. I just now added more Nolux by dipping a jumbo paper clip into the goop, then pushing it down in each pin hole. Seems to be a perfect fit. (note, not every hold in the harness has an electrical connector behind it). you'll notice this if you use the paper clip, because some holes will just feel big and empty, while others obviously have the female half of the connector. Again, don't know if this will fix it this time. i'll post again if it once again dies.

Again, thanks to Steve for finally pinpointing the source of our woes. This is certainly a DANGEROUS issue as it just flat-out dies. Which means your wife could be going 45 mph down a windy mountain road and loose power steering, brakes, etc... Dodge should recall this immediately. Someone is going to get hurt.

same problem, "no bus" durango 99...scanner says its the IDLE (code p0505)but my car wont start at all, so I think I need to replace the PCM or try to do what steve98055 and durango 1000 did!?!? hey steve98055 and durango 1000 is the car running good still?
Heres the thing...my car starts and no "no bus" message when a scanner (the ones used to tell you whats wrong)is plugged in!!!

Well, it didn't work. It broke down again. I even tried spraying contact cleaner into both the plug and the PCM pins, drying off with compressed air, and reconnecting. It still sporatically dies. If I reach under the hood and pull up on the center plug, it usually starts right up though. So, I am convinced that the problem lies with this area, but I'm beginning to think perhaps there is some kind of crack on the circuit board of the computer itself. this would explain to my why applying force on the plug may re-establish a connection, yet not be permenantly fixed by thoroughly cleaning the contacts. I don't know. I'm at a loss and very frustrated at Dodge. What's more frustrating, is that the local dodge dealership knows nothing about this issue, so of course they simply want to replace the computer and/or wiring harness. You'd think there would be some kind of "mechanics bulliten" that goes out to certified dealerships with troubleshooting tips when these things start popping up.

Thanks Durango1000 and Im very frustrated 2, I see that everyone has this "no bus" and transmission problem. I had the trans rebuilt a year ago (over $2000) and now the 2 gear wont shift unless I take my foot off the gas. Replaced the coil ignition 2 months ago ($400), and the gas mileage killing me...especially cause Ive got offroad oversized tires and lift, it looks good only 80k now. Going back to the "no bus" problem, my car didnt even start anymore, untill it started with the scanner connected, so Ive been driving like that for about 3 weeks now, I am trying to find a computer at a junk yard, if dont find one I will go to the dealer, either way ..once fixed I will sell it.

I had this problem exactly a year and 2 months ago. My 1999 Durango had 180000 miles on it. I had the PCM replaced and the problem went away.....

But now I have a similar problem but quite the opposite. Now the car doesn't shut itself off, it wont turn on. I go to start it and you wont hear the fuel pump and there are no gauges, then the NO BUS will light up on the odometer. I am leaning towards the PCM again but I am not 100% positive. This is all just frustrating. The $700 I paid for the dealership to replace the PCM a year and 2 months ago is now down the drain and they only warranty the computer for one year.


BS, I will NEVER get a dodge again.

My 99 Durango SLT 4x4 5.9l started having this problem about a month ago, but it's getting worse as it gets hotter here in Texas. Today it did it twice, the first time in heavy traffic while pulling la loaded horse trailer. It also seems to be taking longer to reset. After reading all the posts in this thread, I have several observations about my own case:
1) wiggling the PCM harness/cables makes absolutely no difference
2) the PCM case gets pretty hot
3) I've only seen the "no bus" message once out of the dozen or so times it's shut down.

I'm trying the approach of buying a refurbished PCM from http://www.autocomputerexchange.com (http://www.automotiveforums.com//http://www.autocomputerexchange.com) since they'll reprogram it to my VIN and mileage. $314 with shipping. I'll reply back in a few months and give an update on my success or failure.

Received the new brain from Auto Computer Exchange, 8 days after I ordered it. Re-installed it, went for drive, no problems on the 7 mile test drive.

I have a 99 Durango with pretty much the same symptoms everyone else was having. No Bus error. Sporadic shutdowns. 2-20 minute restart.

It is a nasty little problem to troubleshoot given its sporadic nature. Since time was short for me as I didn't want my kid's in an unsafe situation (eg, the car dies on the bridge with no shoulder) I figured I would try replacing the crankshaft sensor first because it was cheap and if that didn't work I would change the PCM. This was a risky approach because the problem could be something else and then I would be out $450. However, I talked to a GM Service Center and when I explained the systems the mechanic said without hesitation - "sounds like your pcm is bad".

I replaced the sensor and that didn't fix the problem. It is a bit of a pain getting at the sensor but it isnt too bad (I removed the front right inner wheel well). So, I ordered a PCM from ecudirect for $400 ($300 if you have the time to send in your current unit to be fixed) and it arrived a couple of days later. It is very easy to replace and even someone with little to no automotive experience can replace it (saves $400-$600 to do the 10 minute job yourself).

The new PCM fixed the problem and I haven't had a problem since.

Thanks wylieSteve (http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/member.php?u=517665) and keep us updated please.

Hey J utah are you in salt lake?

I have a 99 Durango 5.9L, 105k with the same problem.

Is the Power Control Module the same thing as the Powertrain Control Module?

To file a complaint go to:
http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/ivoq/

We broke down several times with the same problem on our 99 Durango after going 150 miles into our vacation. It was crazy trying to get off the freeway, no steering/brakes and an 18wheeler bearing down on us! Needless to say we had to come home, but at least we made it home safely. I certainly don't want others to be in the situation we had to endure.

Well, I just found out that if the car is over 8 years old, they are not required to do a recall...bummer!

Received the new brain from Auto Computer Exchange, 8 days after I ordered it. Re-installed it, went for drive, no problems on the 7 mile test drive.
After a longer drive, discovered that this provided no joy, the car still died. Bought a Crank position sensor and finally got installed. Drove the vehicle about 2 hours, and the problem happened again. So, still no joy. :banghead:

Spent the weekend following carefully the diagnostics for each of the sensors on the 5 volt bus, but none are shorting, and I can't find a short in the wiring either. I cleaned the contacts on the PCM connector pins for the 5 volt bus (pins 4 and 17) with DeoxIT and now I can cause the problem when the vehicle is hot by wiggling the PCM connector. The problem still never happens when the vehicle is cold.

I've ordered another product from CAIG called DeoxIT Shield that is a contact enhancer. Conceptually I think it's similar to the NoAlox mentioned in a previous post. When it arrives and I get it put in, I'll follow up again.

We tried a product similar to NoAlox from I.C.E. that is a conductive anti-oxidant with aluminum filings. It didn't help. Haven't tried switching out the pcm yet...I guess they don't make new ones anymore, just the reman's according to the dealership. Also, heat/warping could still cause problems on your replacement part in the future.

To temporarily fix the problem until our pcm part arrives, we re-routed the windshield washer fluid over the pcm with small holes to spray fluid on the pcm while driving to cool it down. I know it sounds redneck but we drove it for 500 miles roundtrip without an incident here in Arizona where the temps can be brutal. We are still replacing the pcm and considering installing a fan or air vent to help control the problem in the future.

Thanks for the info everyone and keeping us posted!:)

After my last post and the extensive diagnostics of everything on the 5v bus as mprtech and shango recommend, I was still having the problem, but none of the sensors on the bus tested bad.

I took it in to my regular mechanic, who put it on their diagnostic machine and said they didn't have sophisticated enough diagnostics to determine what was wrong, told me I'd have to take it to Dodge.

Took it to McKinney Dodge who spent several days trying to diagnose the problem and then reported that the central timer module was bad. I let them replace it. They called me after they had replaced it and told me that the vehicle still died, but the "no bus" message was fixed. Skeptical, I went to the dealer and showed them that the "no bus" message still appeared when the vehicle died, and they agreed to replace my original central timer module ($500 part).

They did a bunch more diagnostics, including repairing one of the PCM connections. I had removed the connector so many times that the locking tabs had broken off. The tech replaced the connector and re-taped everything - really looks nice. After 2 more days of diagnostics costing $340, they came back and said the PCM was bad. I told them I had already replaced the PCM and was skeptical of that diagnosis. I asked if they would put on a PCM but remove it if it did not solve the problem. The answer was no. After some haggling, they were really convinced that it was the PCM.

I sent the PCM with the results of Dodge's diagnostics back to the folks I got the refurbished PCM from, and they cheerfully replaced it with another refurbished PCM. This PCM solved the problem. We drove the vehicle Labor Day weekend on about a 5 hour trip to Arkansas fully loaded with kids, dogs, bikes and cartop carrier with no problem. We've driven it around town a lot with no problem, and over the weekend I pulled the horse trailer about 45 miles round trip with no problem.

Before it was fixed, the problem became very easy to replicate. The vehicle would die if idled in the driveway for 15 minutes or so with the A/C on high. Anything that causes underhood temperatures to climb, but I never saw the engine temperature climb over 210 so it's not really an overheating problem.

After reviewing the wiring diagrams on alldata and the diagnostic information available on other websites for how to test the sensors, I believe this problem could be caused by any of the sensors on the 5v bus (crank, cam, throttle, MAP, trans), the wiring or the computer. There does seem to be a problem with the computer, probably with a circuit trace pulling away from the board when it gets hot. In my case, it was the PCM, but might be something simpler and cheaper, you just have to check them all.

Hope this helps someone. I'm glad to have my 'rango back, we were without it all of June, July and August.

after reading many posts, we went to our mechanic and had him replace the pcm because our 99 started stalling too with nobus in odometer. PCM replaced...... have had no problems in several months. Dont go through all the other sensor replacemnts and such that they suggest it could be.... pcm should be your fix. If you have any questions let me know.... neilandkari@msn.com

I have had this same problem for a month. I took it to my local mechanic twice, and he said there were no codes in the computer and he could not diagnose it. I then took it to the dealer, who claimed there was a code in the computer for a faulty IAC. They changed it to the tune of $409.

As you know from prior posts, that was NOT the problem and the car still stalled and showed "No Bus" in the odometer. I took it back to the dealer, who could not re-create the problem and could not diagnose it. I then Googled the symptoms and several websites came up indicating this problem. Taking all of your good peoples' advice, I ordered the PCM through Auto Comptuer Exchange, changed it out and -- car works fine.

I went back to the dealer to get my money back, but they refused and claimed this is not a common problem, that they never heard of it and that "the internet is not a diagnostic tool" (I love that one -- seemed to work pretty well for me).

Anyway, I'll still pursue them, but all's well that end's well. It is the PCM. You can change it out yourself with minmal time. Entire cost was $314. Thank you for all the comments and especially the follow ups which set us straight.

Hi. I have the same problem. I like to know if you check over heat in your previous PCM and if the new PCM does not heat. Regards

Cruzsalinas: I have not had a repeat of the problem since changing out the PCM. However, I have not checked on whether the new PCM overheats. I am going to guess that, over time, this problem will repeat as the heat begins to warp the motherboard in the PCM, but that is just a guess. Others on this board and elsewhere have stated that the problem is heat and subsequent warping of the motherboard, but I can't verify that and I don't know of a way to verify it. We'll have to see. My Durango has about 105,000 miles on it and I just want it to get to 150,000 before I get a new car. I'll post if I have a problem, but the car is running great now. Thanks for your question.

I made a few modification to the vehicle to allow fresh airflow over the PCM, rather than hot air in the engine compartment cooling the PCM.
It's really fairly simple:
Cut a hole in the plastic that is located behind the grill and next to the passenger side headlight. This now lets cool air into the area between the engine compartment and outside fender wall.
I installed a screen from an old screen door to keep the bugs and rocks out. Then, I installed a home-made duct out of thin sheetmetal to move the fresh air onto the PCM.
If you look at the body there is an opening near the PCM, so if you build a small duct to feed the fresh air to the PCM.
So, the fresh air enters through the screen, along the body (between the engine compartment and fender) exits through the opening into the duct.

At one time I had a fan in the duct, but didn't feel that it made much difference. Simply allowing the motion of the vehichle propel the air onto the PCM.

I have a 99 Durango 5.9 and the PCM was replaced less than a year ago with a reman. and it started to die again. I can move the wires on the middle connector and then the gas guage will work and I can here the relays click then it will start and run for a little while then die again.
Has anybody tried to puill the middle connector apart and adjust the female end of the connectore(i.e. smash them a little)?

The problem is actually where the connectors solder to the circuit board. And yes, I attempted repairing and just wound up destroying the surface mount components on the board. The problem is that they fill the entire module with muck that is impossible to remove.
You'll have to replace the entire module. Look at my previous post, there are some modifications you can do to keep the module running cooler.

If you purchased the reman from chrysler, it should still be under warranty. If not from Chrysler, it might be worth checking with the company to see what warranty is.

I have a 200o Dodge Durango that had the same problem, it would stall and then say "No Bus" on the odometer. It did it a couple of times, and then not once over the Winter. Once it started warming up outside it happened all the time. I tried replacing the Crank Shaft Sensor, as this in one possible fix, but it did not fix the problem. In the mean time, I decided, that because it didn't ever happen during the Winter I would pack a bag of ice around the computer to keep it cool, and it worked! I would buy a bag of ice from a gas station, open it and pour some ice out right around the computer (the bag won't fit or let the hood shut if it is full), then I would reseal the bag, and pack it in around the computer itself. This temporarily fixed my problem, however I knew that it wasn't a final fix so I called the dealership for the price of a new computer. They quoted we just under $600 for the part, and $85 dollars for labor. I didn't have a spare $685 dollars so I called AutoZone. They charged me $276 plus a $65 core fee (which I got back when i returned the old computer of course). I took the thing home and put it in myself. It was the easiest fix I have ever done on a car and I am not a mechanic. It literally took me about 5 minutes to disconnect the battery, removed the 3 bolts that hold the computer in place, disconnect the 3 electrical connections on the computer, and then do the same thing in reverse. If you aren't sure it's the computer, try the "ice fix" and see if it helps. If that does it, DON'T go to a dealership and pay the high price unless you can afford it. Order if from AutoZone. They will ask you for the VIN, the milage, and a few other things. They have to order it over the phone, and give the company they call the info you supplied, and download all the info for your vehicle to the new computer. It is then delivered to AutoZone via Fedex in about 2 days.

OK - I guess after reading 5 years worth of essentially the same issue - I'm going to add my own dilemma.

My Wife has a 99 Durango 5.9L 4X4 with 175,000 miles. About a year or so ago it started jerking around when you tried to keep the vehicle running at a steady 50 MPH - At times it would almost seem like the motor was going to rip itself out. Accelerate to over 60 MPH and no problems - let off the gas and no problems. We took it to several shops AND dealerships and NO ONE could give us a straight answer (ranged from everything from transmission to the vehicle computer). Anyway - Wife said forget about it she would deal with it until something else happens.

Flash forward to about three weeks ago. She calls me up and says her check engine light is on and the truck sounds like its missing (yes - I am blessed with one of those rare Wives who ACTUALLY KNOWS something about vehicles). No problem - I get home - hook up my handheld scanner and it reads a misfire in cylinder #7. So, I figure its as good a time as any to go ahead and do a tune-up. New plugs, new wires, new cap & rotor. Replaced everything and I'm feeling pretty good . . . UNTIL I start it up after the tune-up - It sounding 100 times worse than BEFORE I tuned it up. I hook up the handheld and now I'm getting multiple misfires and a "P1391 (M) Intermittent Loss Of CMP Or CKP Loss of the cam position sensor or crank position sensor has occurred" error code.

I recheck everything and use the scanner to reset all of the trouble codes on the truck. Next thing you know - everything is running fine and there are no error codes registered.

Next day my Wife drives the truck and calls me later in the day and says it stalled at a stop sign but fired right back up and is driving fine. OK - maybe a fluke but then it happens again the next day and the Check Engine light comes on. So, I hookup the handheld again and this time I only read the 1391 error code.

So I do a little checking and figure the easiest place to start is the Camshaft position sensor and so I get a new one and hook it up. NO CHANGE IN CONDITION. So I then (agonizingly) change the Crankshaft position sensor (again - what a complete pain in the ass to change that thing) and start it up - clear the codes - recheck and all is well. I walk into the house and tell my Wife all is done and she goes down to the truck and starts it up and it sounds horrible. By this time the truck is revving erratically and stalling out in park.

So now I'm searching the forums and DUH!!! - I forgot to disconnect the negative thereby resetting the vehicle computer. So next day - do out and disconnect the battery . . . for an HOUR!!. Hook it back up - start it up - and ALL IS WELL!! I now have to buy new clips for the inner fender well (which you have to take off along with the passenger side tire to change the Crankshaft position sensor in all of about 3 inches of space between the back of the block and the firewall - again - real pain in the ass) so I drive to the parts store (about 5 miles away) and it stalls right in the parking lot.

By now - I'm pretty ticked off (except for the fact that up until that point the two fixes cured the initial problem at 50 MPH) - I go in and buy the clips and limp the vehicle back to the house where it sits in the driveway right now.

I've gone through multiple forums and I'm now at my wits end. I have all of the same symptoms as everyone else WITH THE EXCEPTION of the NO BUS code . . . I DO NOT have that issue. So I'm left with changing out the vehicle computer . . . I Think?!

3 Questions:

1) Lots of talk about PCM and ECU are these the SAME thing?

2) It has been suggested that if you replace the ECU (nothing about the PCM - if they are the same then that is strange) then you should also replace the IAC - is this true or am I just giving away more money?

3) Does the fact that I am NOT getting the "No Bus" signal indicate that I have a different problem?

Thank you for your time and patience and ANY advice will be extremely appreciated. I can be contacted at rick@mttlaw.com

Thanks,
Rick

PCM and ECU refer to the same thing. But I think the proper term is PCM for these chassis dodges.
I don't know why you would need to replace the IAC (Idle air control unit) when replacing the PCM. I didn't, no problem.
The no bus is one symptom of the failing PCM. But it can also show up with stalling / missing. The PCM can also cause the security system to engage, which shuts down the fuel delivery, and ignition.

One thing to consider, a low battery can cause strange fuel delivery problems with these vehicles, because the if the voltage that is fed to the PCM is low, the PCM acts up.

So, I would recommend taking the vehichle somewhere that they can check out the battery and alternator under loaded conditions. AutoZone, Pep Boys, Checker all do it for free.

If the battery and alternator are OK, then consider replacing the PCM.

OK - now I'm ticked . . . see post above for issues . . . replaced plugs, wires, cap, and rotor . . . replaced Camshaft Position Sensor . . . replaced Crackshaft Position Sensor (again - what a pain in the butt!!!) . . . checked battery, connections, and Alternator . . . replaced PCM . . . total cost around $425.00 . . . STILL HAS SAME PROBLEM!!!!

Will someone please tell me what to do next???

Besides blow it the ____ up!!!!

OK People - Listen Up - FINALLY got the stupid Durango running - please make a note and DO NOT REPEAT MY MISTAKES.

First off - the ONLY thing wrong with my truck was the CAMSHAFT POSITION SENSOR.

All of the other parts - Crankshaft Position Sensor, PCM, etc., were not necessary replacements . . . why???

Because what no one tells you is that if you replace EITHER the Camshaft Position Sensor OR the Crankshaft Position Sensor then you have to reset your PCM to FACTORY DEFAULTS and RELEARN the PCM to your particular vehicle's setup. The Camshaft PS and the Crankshaft PS are out of sync when you replace one or the other and when that happens the PCM will TEMPORARILY reset it's self to factory defaults but then revert to the previous settings thereby causing the vehicle to act all retarded again.

A few side notes - 1) Don't ask me how to reset the computer because I have no idea. I bought a new one and that didn't work either and I guess that SHOULD'VE already been reset - but whatever. I had a local mechanic look at it after I was at my complete wits end and wanted to use the stupid truck for AR-15 target practice. 2) The Crankshaft Position Sensor either WORKS or it DOESN'T. There is no "in between" or "intermittent" fault with this sensor. If you have an intermittent problem the Crankshaft Position Sensor is not the problem. 3) NEVER, NEVER, NEVER, EVER . . . move the Distributor. Apparently these stupid things are lined up just so and if you move them the Camshaft Position Sensor won't work right - stupid, I know. 4) Once you reset the PCM to factory - it will run crappy - not crappy as in not working but crappy as in a little higher RPM and a little lower MPG. This will level off as the vehicle relearns it's self and settles down - usually within 50 to 100 miles.

I REALLY REALLY REALLY hope this helps someone else because - Lord knows, I could've used this info 3 weeks and $450.00 ago. Thanks for all those that did help and I'm sure I'll be back.

one thing to check is the ground wires next to the ac comp. looking under the hood left of the ac comp. 2 black wires one connector small wire not making connection would now start unless code reader was hooked up untill i hooked the ground back up still have the no bus and the idle air control system code still checking into it

In my case you are exactly right with your description of the problem. My 2000 Durango was having this problem two years ago. After replacing the PCM we disassembled the old one, scraped out all the muck, and examined the connector pins under a magnifier. Sloppy soldering... ring cracks existed around several of the pins with one almost completely around the middle 5v pin that others here have traced the problem to. Probably the heat caused the board to warp and break contact at the crack.


The problem is actually where the connectors solder to the circuit board. And yes, I attempted repairing and just wound up destroying the surface mount components on the board. The problem is that they fill the entire module with muck that is impossible to remove.
You'll have to replace the entire module. Look at my previous post, there are some modifications you can do to keep the module running cooler.

i have a 1999 dodge durango and the check engine light went on. the odtemter stop working and when i hooked it up to the tester it told me that the vehicle speed sensor wasn't working. so i replaced the sensor and the promblem are still there so what could be the promblem and also how do I reset the vehicles computer?

I'm betting Mohawk55a has found the most common root cause. Another blogger engineer reported it was an internal manufacturing defect. All the other bloggers seem to be guessing (here and everywhere).

My "no bus" problem appeared 8/07 less than a month after I installed shorty headers and a 180 T-stat, both of which help to heat up the engine compartment. Problem appears when hot and is affected by wiggling connectors.

I didn't fix mine, since I wasn't sure what to spend precious $ on. I did waste time though re-soldering all my connector females. So I rigged a forced air cooling fan/duct/enclosure for the PCM; bathing it in outside ambient air. This did the trick, except when I stop the engine the fan stops and the PCM starts heating up from residual heat. If I soon again start up, then I might see the problem appear.

Question for Mohawk: Do you think I could re-solder my pins without undue trouble, and get the PCM back up? Would I have to pull the board out of the case? Or could I do the job from the front? I'd like to fix this darn problem once and for all, but I surely am not gonna buy a new computer because of a stupid lousy solder joint!

mzdeal,

The problem would be getting through the potting goo that they fill the inside of the PCM case with. If you or someone else knows an effective way of removing enough of that to work with, it should be no problem. We found the goo to be very stubborn and frustrating... since I already purchased and installed a refurbished PCM myself, I wrote off the old one and dug out the board without regard for putting it back together again. I don't think I have the patience to consider it "undue trouble". :)


I'm betting Mohawk55a has found the most common root cause. Another blogger engineer reported it was an internal manufacturing defect. All the other bloggers seem to be guessing (here and everywhere).

My "no bus" problem appeared 8/07 less than a month after I installed shorty headers and a 180 T-stat, both of which help to heat up the engine compartment. Problem appears when hot and is affected by wiggling connectors.

I didn't fix mine, since I wasn't sure what to spend precious $ on. I did waste time though re-soldering all my connector females. So I rigged a forced air cooling fan/duct/enclosure for the PCM; bathing it in outside ambient air. This did the trick, except when I stop the engine the fan stops and the PCM starts heating up from residual heat. If I soon again start up, then I might see the problem appear.

Question for Mohawk: Do you think I could re-solder my pins without undue trouble, and get the PCM back up? Would I have to pull the board out of the case? Or could I do the job from the front? I'd like to fix this darn problem once and for all, but I surely am not gonna buy a new computer because of a stupid lousy solder joint!

I suppose its worth another look. I pulled the case apart once before, but went no further once I saw that goop. If you can remember, are the pins soldered on the "top side" (cover side) or the "back side" (toward the cast casing)?

It would be a lot easier if I don't have to pull the whole board out of the goop. If I could just dig out enough goop from the front to get in there and work the joints, that would be well worth a morning try.

Pulling the whole thing out to get to the back seems like trouble. Might be easier just to cut an access whole out of the back, if possible.

In my case, I'll have to be careful so as not to damage anything.

Milt

ARGH! Our 2000 Durango is experiencing the same lug/surge, stalling issues I am reading about here. Additionally, it will stall as I am driving along - last night at 45 mph. The code said it was the cam sensor - which we replaced, and today it still was acting up, code said the crank sensor - so we are replacing that too. BUT...we just replaced these parts about four months ago. AND, we replaced them about a year ago.

What would make the cam &/or crankshaft sensors fail repeatedly?
Thoughts? I am out of money and feeling pretty hopeless - with 16 months left to pay on this thing. Sigh.

I can't comment on those sensors except to say that you should be able to "test" them to see if they are working properly. It is unlikely that these devices actually have failed repeatedly.

As the weather warms up this problem is resurfacing ("no bus" shutdown) in my '99. I have cool air blowing on my PCM, so when it stalled today at a light I just popped the hood, wiggled the the middle connector till I heard the automatic shutdown relay click (other side of engine) and it started right up.

If your problem is the same, you should see a "no bus" in your odometer screen. It usually happens when it gets hot, and results from an intermittent connection problem at the PCM and the middle harness connection. Also the gauges all shut down. Cool down or wiggling this connector usually restores normal function.

If you're electro-mechanically inclined I'd recommend some trouble-shooting before buying parts. In my case it seems I'll need to resolder the PCM circuit board connector pins, which will be a hassle. Or, I can get a "rebuilt" PCM off e-bay (in Florida) for under $200 flashed.

Check all your connections.

Milt

im also having the no bus problem i have been disconecting my battery for a minute or so and then it rerstarts fine i hate the thought of buying a pcm

:licka:

Mine was easy to fix. It was the connections to the PCM. I had a friend with a Jeep that had the same problem. Here is what I did to fix it with just a few bucks and a 20 minutes of my time, 15 of them are waiting.

1. Disconnect the battery and wait 15 minutes. Dealer Recommends this to make sure all capacitance is discharged.
2. Pull the three wire bundle connection to the PCM off, you may even notice one was not fully seated, as I did.
3. Spray out connectors on cables and on PCM with QD Electric Cleaner. You may notice that there is dirt, corrosion, etc in there. Do you best to get it all out, but do not overspray. It is better to spray a little at a time and let it air dry before spraying again.
4. Reconnect everything, including your battery.

Thats it! It fixed my problem and my friends Jeep Problem. His was caused by red dust he gets in Moab Utah while 4WD. He finally had to wrap his with tape to keep the dust out.

Mine was caused by some dirt that got in a connection that was not fully seated. It was probably pulled and not reseated by the Jiffy Lube guys trying to replace the Air Filter sitting next to these connections.

Symptoms: Random Dash Board meters going out. Check Engine Light. Battery not always getting charged. All Dash meters going out. "NO BUS" words showing on the dash board. Intermittent fixing itself and then bad again.

The problem described here sounds like a classic micro-fretting problem. One of the guys out there described the connector (free hanging connector) to header (board-side) in the following way: board-side gold, wire-side aluminum. Since there are no aluminum connectors that I know of, what he probably saw was tin plated female receptacles and may be the heart of the problem. If the receptacles are truly just tin plated which may be difficult to determine, as the mating connector may have gold flashed areas that come in contact with the gold header pins which are probably not visible. If not, mating header/connector surfaces, as a rule, should be of the same material, ie., tin to tin and gold to gold. The problem with gold to tin connections is that the gold side is very hard (more on that later) and the tin side is very soft, so vibration from the vehicle operation causes the connection to vibrate fore and aft and to and fro, which results in micro galling of the tin surface. With each micro-gall, more tin oxide is allowed to form which eventually builds up and results in a resistive connection that cannot support proper operation.

The reason the gold surface appears harder (counter intuitive) is that to plate gold to most metal surfaces, nickel must first be plated. The nickel is very hard and the gold is very thin (usually only a few tens of micro inches thick), so the hardness of the nickel dominates and causes micro-fretting.

The solution is a contact lubricant that is stable across a wide temperature range and is non-conductive. That lubricate is Nyegel 760G. Nyegel works by preventing oxygen from reaching the tin surface, thus preventing tin oxidation and eventual connection failure.

For low mileage connections, you can liberally apply the Nygel to make sure all pins of the header are wetted by the gel and then de-insert and insert the connector a few times to ensure properly thin wetting of the mating surfaces.

For suspected oxidized connections, use a common pencil eraser to remove any grayish looking material on the header pin surfaces that you can and then flush the connector receptacles and header pins with Isopropanol (common rubbing alcohol) until thoroughly clean of debris or any other lubricants. Use a tooth brush to scrub the area if necessary while keeping it flooded with the above alcohol. Use a hair dryer to blow away and evaporate the alcohol while being careful not to melt either the header of connector housing ---- be patient!

Next, insert and de-insert the connector at least 10 times, wiggling it as much as possible during each insertion and de-insertion. Then thoroughly coat the header pins and connector receptacles with the Nyegel lubricant. Use a clean toothbrush to ensure total coating of all connecting surfaces and the re-mate the connector and header several times.

According to a well know connector company, this field correction procedure was used on well over 200,000 vehicles in the field for the same type of problem. (not Chrysler, one of the other two)

Nyegel 760G is readily available on the Internet.

BTW, I am not a Nyegel employee, just an engineer who solved a similar problem in another industry through the help of a connector company field application engineer and Nyegel. I suggest you read more about Nyegel 760G and its development on the internet. And yes, it was for the automotive industry.

Oh yeah, my Durango is setting in the shop with the same problem tonight as I write this. Guess what I am going to be talking about tomorrow with the shop foreman.

Mine is actually a 2000 Durango with about 137,ooo Miles

Problem started end of last summer - No Bus.

Replaced the PCM with one from autozone - truck ran fine all winter

Problem started again at the beginning of summer - Replaced the PCM again with a warranty replacement from Autozone.

Now I'm having the probelm again - this time took it to the dealer. They wanted $800 to replace the PCM. Since I was still under Autozone warranty, I replaced with the autozone (Rebuilt by CARDONE).

Now I'm afraid to drive. Want the dealer to do a thorough check, but they tell me that because I replaced the PCM, that there is no info in the PCM to analyze.

Any suggestions ???????

This was all great advice from everyone. I wanted to add that I bought my 99 Dodge durango used in 2004 and just today Ran into the issue with the No Bus error. I have plenty to look forward to as far as getting this issue fixed. It soulds like I might just replace the PCM and Ill explain why.
About 4 years ago, my ABS light started comming on and I took it to a dodge dealer. When driving off the lot, it came back on. I was going on a trip and never got back to fixing it. About 2 years ago, I noticed about once a month or so, I would start the car and my gas gage would read no fuel (yes I had plenty of fuel). Even the information control center would read that I had 0 miles DTE (distance till empty). I would turn off the car and back on and this would fix it. From time to time my ABS would work but quickly the idiot light would come back on. About 6 months ago, my cruise control went out. Then of corse today my car stalls a couple times and the last time I noticed the "no bus" alert with the gages not responding and the ICC (Information control center) with no info on it. After walking home and comming back with some ideas in mind I was able to start it and get it home. (thus being the 5-20 minute cool down period)
All these items (i believe as I have seen on other sites searching for this issue) are controled by the PCM and I think that I have had an issue getting worse over the last couple years. I will see about getting it replaced and I will definatly add some sort of ventalation to keep it cooler. Your info was very helpful and I hope anyone else reading these entries will see some of the other issues I have been getting leading up to a bigger problem.