SVT5.0 posted a link on the mustang forum where they compared the new Mustang Cobra and a 35th Ann. Camaro SS. The best they got out of the Cobra was something around a 12.8 and the Camaro ran 13.1 at best. If thats what the Camaro and Firebird are capable of with ram air, what the hell is the Firehawk capable of?

Quickest stock trim LS1 F-body was a 12.92 so they're ever quicker than that:D But then again that's extremely rare and very unlikely. 13.1 is definitely obtainable though:)

Originally posted by DeViL
SVT5.0 posted a link on the mustang forum where they compared the new Mustang Cobra and a 35th Ann. Camaro SS. The best they got out of the Cobra was something around a 12.8 and the Camaro ran 13.1 at best. If thats what the Camaro and Firebird are capable of with ram air, what the hell is the Firehawk capable of?


Probably slightly better... i'd assume a Firehawk Trans Am and a SLP SS Camaro would hang with a Cobra. It'd be close i know that.

Which is really strange to me. The Trans Am and SS aren't that far off from the best they managed with the 03 Cobra. I bet people can do better with the Cobra but that isn't saying everyone will do better.

Is the 200 lbs extra the Cobra has for weight, making that much of a difference that the Firehawk would be close? There has to be more to it right?

Originally posted by DeViL
Which is really strange to me. The Trans Am and SS aren't that far off from the best they managed with the 03 Cobra. I bet people can do better with the Cobra but that isn't saying everyone will do better.

Is the 200 lbs extra the Cobra has for weight, making that much of a difference that the Firehawk would be close? There has to be more to it right?

Im pretty sure the firehawk would beat the cobra's 12.8 time... especially if the best stock time for the LS1 is 12.92, the ram air gives around 10-15 on a grand prix gt. im sure it would make an even bigger difference on a LS1. If you wanna find out, im sure there are firehawk sites out.

Ram Air didn't make that much of a difference on the Firebird though.

Firebird Trans Am Without Ram Air - 310 hp, with Ram Air - 325 hp. 15 hp difference.
What stock LS1 has ran a 12.9? I might believe that if it were a stripped down Formula or Z28, but I don't see how an SS or Trans Am would run that. They usually come with a lot of the options which is going to make it heavier.

How the hell does that even work anyways? I mean if thats the best time a Firebird or Camaro has done, then whats going on is it capable of beating a Corvette? I know that new Cobra can beat just a regular Corvette now, and the Corvette is supposed to be faster then the Firebird and Camaro, even the Firehawk.

While, I have no desire to own one, it is a shame the Trans Am has gone the way of the Dodo. It was truely a beast on the road.

Not positive, but if I remember right it was a Ram Air Formula that ran the 12.9 time.

does the new cobra of whatever that can supposivly beat the corvette use a supercharger? I also believe it uses the air scoop on the hood for ram air just like the firehawk

Originally posted by pontiactrac
does the new cobra of whatever that can supposivly beat the corvette use a supercharger? I also believe it uses the air scoop on the hood for ram air just like the firehawk

Yes, it's supercharged and 390hp. It can take C5 Vette's, but not newer Z06s

Of course there are quite a few stories of 03 cobras taking z06. I guess anything is possible.

Originally posted by 94svt5.0
Of course there are quite a few stories of 03 cobras taking z06. I guess anything is possible.

so EVERY svt cobra 02-03 is supercharged? i have to wonder if a cobra motor is that much diff, than a gt for this year, i was wondering how it got 390. Or were you guys only meaning that one year cobra came with a supercharger? Just for the record, im talking about the present generation, not the uncovered one.

There was no 02 cobra only a 99, 01 and 2003 for the new edge body style. The 2003 is the only cobra with a supercharger. The engine is a bit different then the GT motor, coming with a 32 valve version of the 4.6L The 03 cobra come with a cast iron block with heavy duty internals to handle the boost. While it makes 390hp and the GT is making 260hp for the same model year.

Originally posted by 94svt5.0
There was no 02 cobra only a 99, 01 and 2003 for the new edge body style. The 2003 is the only cobra with a supercharger. The engine is a bit different then the GT motor, coming with a 32 valve version of the 4.6L The 03 cobra come with a cast iron block with heavy duty internals to handle the boost. While it makes 390hp and the GT is making 260hp for the same model year.

Ok... thanx for the clear up

Originally posted by pontiactrac
does the new cobra of whatever that can supposivly beat the corvette use a supercharger? I also believe it uses the air scoop on the hood for ram air just like the firehawk

I believe that the new Cobra's hood is not for 'ram air', but more for looks and engine bay cooling.

See I don't get how the new Cobra is supposed to smoke a Corvette but yet the Firehawk probably runs times close to the 03 Cobra. The only thing that would make sense is the Firehawk is faster then the Corvette and the Trans Am is just as a fast as a Vette.

Originally posted by fatninja19


I believe that the new Cobra's hood is not for 'ram air', but more for looks and engine bay cooling.

Actually i read differently, for one, i meant the Mach1, and yes, they are for looks and cooling on the past and present gt's and cobras. But i reciently read that the Mach1 is making the hood operational for the first time in a while. Not sure if they did it ever in the muscle decade though. Im pretty sure the Mach1's will use it though, that's one of the things that gives it's individualism from the cobra and of course gt.

Originally posted by pontiactrac


Actually i read differently, for one, i meant the Mach1, and yes, they are for looks and cooling on the past and present gt's and cobras. But i reciently read that the Mach1 is making the hood operational for the first time in a while. Not sure if they did it ever in the muscle decade though. Im pretty sure the Mach1's will use it though, that's one of the things that gives it's individualism from the cobra and of course gt.

Wow, I for one thought you were talking about the cobra too. No idea where the mach 1 came into play. The real reason for the hood on the 03 cobra is that the original style hood wouldn't fit with the supercharger bolted a top the motor. There for a new hood was designed to accommodate the higher stance of the motor, and was made to functionally vent air as well.

Originally posted by HiFlow5 0


Wow, I for one thought you were talking about the cobra too. No idea where the mach 1 came into play. The real reason for the hood on the 03 cobra is that the original style hood wouldn't fit with the supercharger bolted a top the motor. There for a new hood was designed to accommodate the higher stance of the motor, and was made to functionally vent air as well.

Holy crap, my bad... I am getting two different threads confused. I thought this was the 03' mustang concept thread. But i am still pretty sure the mach1 uses it, and no not the cobra. Sorry for the mixup

Eh....this is supposed to be about the 2003 Cobra not the Mach I.

I'm partial to believing that a Firehawk and an SVT Cobra 'Stang can hang together at the strip. The new blown SVT's might have the edge if everyone here has their facts straight. (I don't follow the current gen of Mustang, I tend to think it's hideous)

But my favorite Mustang/F-body comparos aren't from this generation. Nope. Here's two for consideration.

War of the small blocks: 1969 Boss 302 Mustang versus 1969 Camaro Z-28. or if you want to keep this Firebird-Mustang fight. Firebird Trans-Am versus 428 Cobra Jet.

Turbo Battle: Mustang SVO (2.3L Turbo four) versus Trans-Am GTA Turbo V-6. Why have these two ultra-fast muscle cars been overlooked? The GTA Turbo is still the fastest Trans-Am in the quarter mile from the factory.

War of the small blocks: 1969 Boss 302 Mustang versus 1969 Camaro Z-28. or if you want to keep this Firebird-Mustang fight. Firebird Trans-Am versus 428 Cobra Jet.

Eh didn't the Z-28 have around 400 hp and the 302 was crap?

Mustang SVO (2.3L Turbo four) versus Trans-Am GTA Turbo V-6. Why have these two ultra-fast muscle cars been overlooked?
I knew the Turbo Trans Am is the fastest but I thought the 4-cylinder Mustang was a joke?

Quick Chevy 302 history... Courtesy of Musclecarclub.com


"In 1967, Chevrolet quietly created a Z/28 option for its new Camaro. Specificaly designed to compete in the Club of America Trans Am racing series which placed a 305 cid limit on its entries, the Z-28 was available to the public solely to qualify the car for racing. What you got was a unique 302 cid small block that was created by taking the 327 block and installing the short-stroke 283 crank. Advertised horsepower was listed at just 290bhp, which was not very impressive until one hooked it up to a dyno and got actual readings of 360-400bhp. The Z/28 Camaro proved to be difficult to launch on the street because its high reving engine was lethargic under 4000rpm and worked best when it was shifted at 7500rpm (!)."


The Chevy 302 was not crap by anymeans hehe.. the Chevy 305 was the one that was kinda Blah.

I was talking about the Boss 302. I knew that Z-28 was a fast little bastard.

I'm sure that some stock 03 Cobra has ran quicker than a 12.8. I think that a z06 would be just a tad quicker than the Cobra. It is quite rare that a STOCK LS1 F-body run a really high 12, but it has been done by a few people.... some folks are just lucky to get crazy cars from the factory like that(while others get lemons).

Originally posted by DeViL
I was talking about the Boss 302. I knew that Z-28 was a fast little bastard.


Oh well then...


The '70 Boss 302 290bhp @ 5800rpm, 290lb-ft @ 4300rpm

:bloated:

digressing a bit,

LS1 SSs and Firehawks(Z28s and WS6s too) are as fast in the 1/4 as base C5 vettes. The base C5 Corvette uses the same LS1 w/ different intake and true dual exhaust. The stock HP for all of the above is approx. the same (300-320 RWHP). Eventhough the vette is 200 lbs lighter than the SSs and Firehawks, its Independant Rear Suspension is not as efficient as the F-bods live rear axle at transferring power to the ground. The cars are so evenly matched that it really comes down to driver.

03' Cobra vs 02 SLP SS or Firehawk,
the F-bods weight advantage doesn't make up for the difference in HP.
The best stock time (I've read about) for the 03 Cobra is
12.67 at 110.11 (Muscle Mustangs and Fast Fords 08/02).
The best an Fbody (1999 Z28) has done is
12.89 at 108 (GM High Tech Performance 07/99)

Originally posted by DeViL

I knew the Turbo Trans Am is the fastest but I thought the 4-cylinder Mustang was a joke?

The 4cyl is a joke, I have one. Good everyday car though. The SVO turbo 4cyl on the other hand. That's a pretty nice, rare car. I've seen those into the mid 12's with the edition of an intercooler. Makes for a good sleeper!

Originally posted by RedNeck383



Oh well then...


The '70 Boss 302 290bhp @ 5800rpm, 290lb-ft @ 4300rpm

:bloated:

Well, the Boss 302's were just as underrated as the Z28 Camaros. (didn't want to steal any of the big block's thunder)

In actuality (especially when equipped with the optional inline four barrel carb that was banned by the SCCA) the Boss 302's were making 360 to 390hp themselves, and had much more power lower in the rev range. They weren't nearly as radical as the Z-28 302, but they had enough grunt to give Camaro drivers a hard enough time.

The SVO turbo 4cyl on the other hand.
Never even heard of it? Whend did they make those?

84 1/2 to 86 If I'm not mistaken...

Originally posted by RedNeck383
84 1/2 to 86 If I'm not mistaken...

That's exactly right.

The SVO made 175hp at 4400 rpms in 84. Jumped to 205hp at 4400 rpms in 85, and 205hp at 5000 rpms in 86. This car was making the same if not more hp is some cases then the GT's of those years. I just found that info interesting.

Originally posted by danno_SS
digressing a bit,

LS1 SSs and Firehawks(Z28s and WS6s too) are as fast in the 1/4 as base C5 vettes. The base C5 Corvette uses the same LS1 w/ different intake and true dual exhaust. The stock HP for all of the above is approx. the same (300-320 RWHP). Eventhough the vette is 200 lbs lighter than the SSs and Firehawks, its Independant Rear Suspension is not as efficient as the F-bods live rear axle at transferring power to the ground. The cars are so evenly matched that it really comes down to driver.


The base c5 should make just a tad more power than the F-bodies, but what makes the fbody as quick as the c5 in the 1/4 is gearing along with the different rear ends.

Time to be schooledchildren

i' have an engineering degree nd have definitely studied the LS! in detail

first of dyno's don't lie for evey year and small upgrade the Ls1 has dynoed within a +/-3 % in evey type of car they are in..
second fact most Auto's are faste.

3rd act why would you buy a c5 knowing it as fast or slower than a car that20-25k less and still looks great.. a

4th only T/A have real ram air the ws6 and hawk wich run identical.. the ss is a coll air circutous pathe backto the intake.. ss are typically slower than WS6..... no they are

5th the Cobra is a highly technicals/c v-8 the Ls1 in old tech pushed to its orbital limit andstill going

6th personally stock my AUTO ws6 ran 13.08 in 80 degree weather bone stock

7th i've sen Evan smith do his thing and guy with an off the lot Auto Ws6 they ran 13 flat everytime while Evan strugled t get on or 2 sub 13's


a Cobra running in cold weater tested in a different altitude may do better than a Ls1 above sea level on a hot day...

Finaly if the absolute bestyou can come up with is a .2 second advantage for a car they have been planning to take out the LS1 since 97.. and to use a s/c to do it... d i really have to say which car is superior..


oh sory lastly on a track the Cobra's will be eaten alive by a regular c5 or Ws6 or ss... not so much te 2 latter but the c5.. its so close in 1/4mile and is a better car period.. just like the real ram aired T/A and to a lesser extent SS

Can't have the ss and vettte doing the same performance .. who'd buy the Vette


lesson complete...LS1's in 01 and 02 trim with their ls6 trickle down components are still king of the stock pony car hill.... live with it

Sorry but I just have to say this.

I truly don't believe you have any degree period, the way you talk is unbelievable. I can't even figure out half of what you were trying to say because it is so poorly written.

What they do on a track I'm not concerned about it is what times they can pull off at a drag strip. That being the 03 Cobra and the 02 Firehawk. I believe I've found my answer however. Cobra's I think might average out a best of 12.6 or 12.7 standard, and the Firehawk can probably manage a 12.8, maybe a 12.75 if lucky.

Originally posted by DeViL
Sorry but I just have to say this.

I truly don't believe you have any degree period, the way you talk is unbelievable. I can't even figure out half of what you were trying to say because it is so poorly written.

What they do on a track I'm not concerned about it is what times they can pull off at a drag strip. That being the 03 Cobra and the 02 Firehawk. I believe I've found my answer however. Cobra's I think might average out a best of 12.6 or 12.7 standard, and the Firehawk can probably manage a 12.8, maybe a 12.75 if lucky.

Well unless you've actually ran the Cobra, and more importantly, the Firehawk, u cannot really come to any definate conclusion.

Hence why I said "I think". Given what the Trans Am is capable of 13.1, or a very basic Firebird Formula 12.9, a Firehawk probably does either as fast as the Formula or .1 second faster. I think you can order a "Firehawk Formula", if thats just as basic as a Formula then it could be capable of a 12.7.

Is the Firehawk the firebirds replacement:confused:

Originally posted by RACER D12
Is the Firehawk the firebirds replacement:confused:

The firehawk was not really a replacement of anything. It was created by a company called SLP and has been used on a few firebird fbody styles. It was made for those who wanted utmost performance from trans ams or camaro ss's. Ram air package was added on each. It was said to be firebird's final effort, and it was a good one.

Spyk: Did engineering agree not require any type of typing and/or spelling and/or grammatical skills? hehe... I disagree with your statement that the ws6 has true ram air. I'm pretty sure that hood is for function only. Manual transmission F-bodies generally dyno with less drivetrain loss, and I do believe the reason you say that an auto is faster is because auto's are more idiot proof... no missed shifts, less technical launching, etc.


RacerD12.. A Firehawk is a fixed up version of the Firebird. Similar to what the SLP Camaro SS is to the z28.

Originally posted by fatninja19
Spyk: Did engineering agree not require any type of typing and/or spelling and/or grammatical skills? hehe... I disagree with your statement that the ws6 has true ram air. I'm pretty sure that hood is for function only. Manual transmission F-bodies generally dyno with less drivetrain loss, and I do believe the reason you say that an auto is faster is because auto's are more idiot proof... no missed shifts, less technical launching, etc.


RacerD12.. A Firehawk is a fixed up version of the Firebird. Similar to what the SLP Camaro SS is to the z28.

I see alot of faulty logic in here... first of all, the SLP camaro ss would be a step up from the standard camaro ss (which has been around for over 30 years not by slp), not the z28. And i do hope you didn't mean the ws6 NOR the firehawk hoods use real ram air. The firehawk's ram air is as real as you get on any vehicle, pontiac literally invented the concept with the old GTO's and firebirds. Ill let that go since i think you were only refering to the ws6 though. And by the way you said the hood is for "function only" contradicts what you previously said about it not being for ram air.

For the sake of the hood scoops argument.

Firebird Trans Am
http://www.andyklein.com/images/KleinSalesFloorc.jpg

Firehawks
http://www.noels.com/03-18-02_02_RED_FIREHAWK_RFimage.jpg
http://auto.consumerguide.com/images/autoreview/lrg/02129181990003LRG.jpg

Notice the sizes of the ram air scoops, it's almost like the Trans Am is cut in half. The thing I like about the Firehawk is how the hood is less bulgy compared to the Trans Am.

Originally posted by DeViL
For the sake of the hood scoops argument.

Firebird Trans Am
http://www.andyklein.com/images/KleinSalesFloorc.jpg

Firehawks
http://www.noels.com/03-18-02_02_RED_FIREHAWK_RFimage.jpg
http://auto.consumerguide.com/images/autoreview/lrg/02129181990003LRG.jpg

Notice the sizes of the ram air scoops, it's almost like the Trans Am is cut in half. The thing I like about the Firehawk is how the hood is less bulgy compared to the Trans Am.

Yea, personally i like that but that's only me. There are hoods you can bye on just about any firebird with the bulges. I think i even seen some firehawks with the hood bulges and of course without the trans am middle nostril plate which is standard on the firehawk.