Transmission ?

I've been reading the transmission post in the Lesabre forum on the 4t65e. So I have a question about the 4t60 transmission in my 95' park avenue. I have 139,000 on my car. I don't know how to tell if transmission fluid is burnt unless its black. But I want to change the fluid in my transmission. Its the same color as fresh motor oil. Is that bad or just due to age because it was red when I first got the car. Should I change my transmission fluid or leave it in. If I do change it should I use seafoam transmission cleaner to clean the gunk out or would that do more harm than good? And do they have shift kits for the 4t60?

If its the same color as the oil.... Are we talking Tan... Brown as brown gets? Or honey colored like oil?

There are shift improver kits that help and will give you a solid shift for the 60-E but it involves a bit in the valve body... You may also be able to get an Adjustable Modulator and turn up the line pressure a hair for a more firm shift..

Both of My 60-E's have an adjustable Modulator so that I can get the line pressure where I want it... A firmer shift... No bangs.. Just a firmer shift..

It's honey colored like oil

That might be a good thing of sorts... The additives in the Trans fluid may simply be used up... Might be due for a pan drop..:)

That's good to now. I'm kinda scared to do a pan drop because I might not like what I see. They say what u don't know can't hurt you. I've abused my transmission plenty of times. It still shifts pretty smoothly just shifting the first gear its kinda hard alway has been more noticable,but that may be due to the big the big drop in gearing ratio from first to second. But I'll go head and change it soon. I'll probably do the seafoam thing I saw in the lesabre fourm.

Remove the trans pan, remove the old filter, and clean up the interior of the pan, exposed areas of the transmission, and the magnet. Install a new filter and new pump intake seal (it comes with the filter) and refill with new trans oil. If you use SeaFoam or some other kind of trans cleaner/treatment, you can post back in a few months and we'll advise you where to purchase your new parts and friction kit.

Just change the fluid. If you don't trust me, I couldn't blame you since you don't know me. I'm not asking you to trust me. However, if you trust SeaFoam based solely upon what only THEY tell you about a product THEY want to sell, you are on your own. I'm not asking you to trust either, but to do some research other than what is posted on internet forums. Read a factory transmission service manual and/or talk to HydraMatic about transmission additives. Talk to Raybestos or Red Eagle about why SeaFoam or any kind of solvent is NOT good on your bonded pistons in the forward or 3-4 clutch servos, or the band servo, and why it is not good for the adhesives used on the facings of ALL of your friction plates.

You can take the testimonial advice of a handful of people here and in other forums who "got away" with using it once or twice in their transmissions with no apparent damage (and likely no improvements), or take the engineering/scientific advice of those who know something about that with which what they are working. Only then can you decide if you want anything other than Dexron III or IV in your trans.

I think I'll take your advice. I'm scared of just changing the transmission fluid. I have close to 140k miles now and when I go to the junkyard most of the park avenues, lesabres, and bonnevilles have around 170k miles, so I'm assuming that thats around the mileage the transmission goes out. I do see a couple of 200k+ cars, but for the most part they seem to die around 170k miles. But i want mine to last past that, so I'd rather take the risk of changing the trans fluid.

Like stated, just change the fluid and filter...

We have seen people change the fluid( It was really really bad to begin with ) and have the trans go out... They changed the fluid knowing something wasn't right... and some blamed the new fluid... If the trans was messed up to begin with it was going to go out either way you look at it...

Being that your trans still shifts good, and is smooth.... Do the trans fluid and filter... It will get even better than it is now... I have a Buddy with a Park ave that did a fluid change at about 150,000 he is near 200,000 now... They put a lot of miles on that Park....

I am at 171,000 on my 4T60-E

If you don't trust me, I couldn't blame you since you don't know me. I'm not asking you to trust me. However, if you trust SeaFoam based solely upon what only THEY tell you about a product THEY want to sell, you are on your own. I'm not asking you to trust either, but to do some research other than what is posted on internet forums. Read a factory transmission service manual and/or talk to HydraMatic about transmission additives. Talk to Raybestos or Red Eagle about why SeaFoam or any kind of solvent is NOT good on your bonded pistons in the forward or 3-4 clutch servos, or the band servo, and why it is not good for the adhesives used on the facings of ALL of your friction plates.

You can take the testimonial advice of a handful of people here and in other forums who "got away" with using it once or twice in their transmissions with no apparent damage (and likely no improvements), or take the engineering/scientific advice of those who know something about that with which what they are working. Only then can you decide if you want anything other than Dexron III or IV in your trans.

:rolleyes:

Nah! Is that fact, from personal experience or sheer speculation on your part about Seafoam? To start it is a misunderstood product and I don't care what any one says it works for its intended purpose. It is a petroleum based product intended as a flushing agent when transmissions are neglected, i.e failure to properly change out ATF at the prescribed intervals or used when the transmission on the last leg and used as a last ditch effort before spending the big bucks at which time it probably won't do any good using it anyways.

You're not supposed to dump 8-16 oz of it in and then forget about it or go about your merry way. I see no problems with running it in conjunction with a pan drop service. You can add it before you plan on doing it a day or even up to a few weeks before the service. You'll be surprised what garbage it will pull out of the tranny that we all assume a regular pan drop service handles. Short term use of it will not kill your tranny and I'm still waiting on the alleged failures mentioned. I've used it in both 4T60E and 4T65E autotransaxles.

On the Dex-VI issue there is no Dex-IV. Plus I would be careful about suggesting to use it in a 4T60E or even mentioning it unless you have personal experiences using it and can report no known issue(s) based on your experiences.

Just did a tranny filter and fluid change. The oil was dirty than I thought, it looked like my motor oil after 4,000 miles. I didn't see and metal peices just the shavings attached to the magnet. I was expecting the worse because I can be abusive to my transmission sometimes.I didn't change out the the pump intake seal.I had a tuff time just getting the filter loose. It was tight. I used Vavoline maxlife transmission fluid. and a fram transmission filter because it was more than half the price of the ac delco filter. Total cost $48, messing up my clothes and smelling like trans fluid; priceless. All I can say is that its like night day,my transmission shifts so much much smoother, like it did when I first got my car. Plus it doesn't sound as loud at idle either. So I'm very happy with the trans fluid change.

Happy to hear that you have changed the fluid... Its a good thing to do..

The noise you were hearing( A bit of a growl may be a better word ) means that the Filter was clogging up and starving the pump, Really the pump was having to work hard to pick up the fluid.. The seal you were talking about is a Rubber Metal flange seal... I replace these, but its not always required... Should we replace them every time we replace the filter... The answer to that is yes.. But in a lot of cases you can get away with reusing it..

I would make a suggestion... For a large car with a 4T60-E, its almost a good idea to add a Trans cooler and run it in tandem with the internal heat exchanger.. This will help keep the trans cooler and extend its life for years to come..

If the fluid came out looking like 4000 mile oil from a Tuned Port 3800, in my eyes that means the trans has been overheated a few times.. You would be amazed what a decent cooler can do for the trans..

Glad that you got it done..:)

You're right I actually remember when it turned colors. I was doing some very aggressive driving in rush hour traffic. I knew I had been hard on the transmission so I checked it and it was no longer red. But it wasn't black and I wouldn't be able to tell if a trans overheated other than really.
I have a question though about the trans cooler. Is there anything special u have to do besides putting adding it to the the trans lines and where would it mount? I've always wanted to attach one. Is it a difficult job. If it requires welding or something like that it would be out of my league. sorry for all the :confused:

You're right I actually remember when it turned colors. I was doing some very aggressive driving in rush hour traffic. I knew I had been hard on the transmission so I checked it and it was no longer red. But it wasn't black and I wouldn't be able to tell if a trans overheated other than really.
I have a question though about the trans cooler. Is there anything special u have to do besides putting adding it to the the trans lines and where would it mount? I've always wanted to attach one. Is it a difficult job. If it requires welding or something like that it would be out of my league. sorry for all the :confused:

Do I remember right that the pink color of new changes to clear with some heat deterioration and then starts changing to brown tones with more heat deterioration? So if pink has turned clear, that means time to start thinking about coolers, changing fluid, driving style, etc.

The problem is the Dexron VI that I put in this time was almost impossible to see on the dipstick after mixing with the 45% Quaker State Dexron III/Original fluid mix that was in it originally.

Do I remember right that the pink color of new changes to clear with some heat deterioration and then starts changing to brown tones with more heat deterioration?

Trouble shooting is an excellent way to determine if the filter and fluid may need changing. The following are signs that can indicate a filter and fluid change is overdue:
The fluid has changed color from red to brown or yellow
A change in smell that ranges from a sharp, pungent smell to a burned-rubber odor
Rough shifting
Varnish on the transmission dipstick
New or unusual noises
A clicking or buzzing sound that may be indicating fluid starvation due to low fluid level

I realized your second point. When I smelled the fresh transmission fluid it had a repulsive odor. My old transmission fluid didn't. The only thing about the pan drop is that the fluid is still brown. So I'll use the smell method to check my fluid unless it get really dark.

Does anyone have a suggestion on the best way to remove the pump intake seal? I've pulled mine once and I felt sure I was going to either tear up the seal or the transmission. There must be some tool that can be adapted to get it out easier. There's just not much to grab a hold of.

Thanks for the help!

A special hooked shape seal puller will do it, but they are in tight, you can damage the bore getting aggresive with a screwdriver or such.