Any way to change all the fluid in Transmission 1997

I have a 1997 Lesabre, I have been told and shown my fluid is "burnt" and needs to be replaced ASAP.
Not sue of the exact amount, but was told that if I drop the pan, change the filter, that will get rid of 4 of about 12? quarts.
If I take it to the trans shop, I will have to get the the filter service, plus fluid exchanged. I need to get this done soon but am low on money.
On a 97, is there a way to get all the fluid out/replace without a transmission shop doing it?
Thanks for any tips,
Chris.

Before we can respond to your questions, we need to know how many miles on the car and has the fluid ever been changed?

Thanks for the reply. I can't find my book at this moment, but my dad maintained this car immaculate. Did everything as scheduled.
It has 151,000.
Another person told me if you change the fluid in a transmission like mine, it will go out in 6 months. Fluid is pretty bad. I would rather have it go out with good fluid then to run it with old stuff and have it go out.
Chris.

A typical 4T60/65E takes 7 quarts with a filter replacement. Counting what is left in the bottom half of the torque converter and what remains in the transmission and trans oil cooler, that over half the total fill. If you install a clean filter and refill it with that much clean, correct oil, it can help immensely.

There is a reasonably sound argument that any vehicle with higher mileage which has never had a fluid change should NOT have all the trans oil changed at once. Providing enough clean oil to lubricate and cool without removing all the suspended particles can make the difference between the clutches actually grabbing or slipping and ruining the trans.

Incidentally, despite what any shop will tell you, there is NO WAY to completely flush a transmission. Some of the oil will remain trapped in servoes, accumulators, spools and other parts of the transmission. The only way to actually change it all is to completely disassemble the trans.

In your case, remove the pan and filter, clean up all you can, and install a pan drain plug:

http://www.wwdsltd.com/files/4T60EPanPlugged.jpg

Refill it and run it for several thousand miles, then drain and refill it again (sooner if/when it starts to look dark). You won't need to pay for a flush, and can cleanly and easily change the trans oil from that point forward. Use a ½-20 jamb nut and Dorman 65202 oil drain plug (about $4 total) as your plug. Tack weld the nut in a few spots to retain it, and you're all set.

Blue Bowtie,
That is just way to cool!!!
Sounds like a good way to go with what you said.

Could you post a closer shot of the drain plug?

Why did you tack weld it?

I placed mine with the magnet where it should be. Works like champ.


http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y186/lizzywiz/DSC00018.jpg

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y186/lizzywiz/DSC00023.jpg

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y186/lizzywiz/plug_01.jpg
Dorman Part Number 091-048

That's a very good point, and the compression type kit works as well. The only potential problem is for some leakage at the compression joint. The drain plug kit can leak in three places. The standard plug can leak only in one place. If you don't keep a MIG handy, the kit is a very good alternative.

Having a magnet installed is a good idea. The location is not really critical, since the contamination tends to go about everywhere in the pan:

http://72.19.213.157/files/4T60EPanInterior.jpg


Could you post a closer shot of the drain plug?

http://72.19.213.157/files/4T65-ETransPanPlug.jpg

It works wherever there is room for a plug (even Fords):

http://72.19.213.157/files/AXODPanConversion.jpg

And BMWs:

http://72.19.213.157/files/4L30-ETransPanPlug.jpg

Simply locate a safe place for the plug, drill the correct hole, and install the plug kit.

That's a very good point, and the compression type kit works as well. The only potential problem is for some leakage at the compression joint. The drain plug kit can leak in three places. The standard plug can leak only in one place. If you don't keep a MIG handy, the kit is a very good alternative.

Having a magnet installed is a good idea. The location is not really critical, since the contamination tends to go about everywhere in the pan:

The ready all in one drain plug kit works fine for me. I've installed it on 4 GM cars with a 4T65E autotransaxle in the past 3 months. No leaking from what I can see. Just an easier DIY alternative method without having to use special shop equipment to install it. Cost was around $5.00.

Basically all a tranny drain plug does is make it convenient and less messy to drain the ATF. To do the job right you should still drop the pan and clean it out.

Yeah it is quite obvious the magnet is ineffective. You can place it on the outside of the pan for the good it does. :lol:

Hey Blue, I like that magnet in the BMW pan! :iceslolan GM should take notice! Back in the days when I was drag racing as a full time sport, one of our cars ran a 840 hp big block (465 cu in) with a powerglide & 5200 stall converter in the 9.90 et class. Even then, I used an industrial magnet 1/4 X 2" X 3" inside the pan. The magnet was strong enough to literally pick-up a 5-lb sledge hammer. Of course, we changed the fluid after every 100 runs, but I was amazed at the crap the magnet would catch, even with an external filter installed. As far as pan drain plugs, I think they are a good idea if you plan on keeping the car and doing your own trans service. My next 96-PA Ultra trans service, will include the drain pan plug installed (as shown in BNaylor’s post) along with a large internal magnet and an larger external cooler with the addition of a remote oil filter mounted in the front grill area. The PA Ultra comes with a small (undersized) external cooler, hence the planned upgrade. Of course, the OEM internal filters are totally inadequate and that becomes obvious when you drop the pan! :eek7:

Speaking of OEM screen filters Bo. The expensive AC Delco TF304, pn: 25313825 for the 4T60/65E transaxles is actually made by SPX/Filtran. If you go with Filtran direct or other suppliers cost is only around $9-$10 versus the GM dealers and Delco authorized parts stores. :rolleyes:

You're fortunate you have the M13 4T60E. Otherwise I would consider getting a 1-2/2-3 accumulator shift kit and switching over to the new Dexron VI.

I don't have a pic readily available but on my GTP I installed the MSP aluminum trans pan several years ago. It has the drain plug built-in, the cooling fins and an extra 1/2 qt capacity.

Thanks for the reply. I can't find my book at this moment, but my dad maintained this car immaculate. Did everything as scheduled.
It has 151,000.
Another person told me if you change the fluid in a transmission like mine, it will go out in 6 months. Fluid is pretty bad. I would rather have it go out with good fluid then to run it with old stuff and have it go out.
Chris.

When you drop the pan and replace the filter, you will have 42% of the old fluid left. That's enough new good fluid with fresh additives to clean up any problems over a few thousand miles.

If the transmission was changed regularly this will be enough to help clean up any areas without shocking something loose. If it wasn't changed until 100,000 miles (the book recommendation), it's not going to do a drastic quick cleaning and cause a problem.

Then the new change at 10,000 miles would leave 17% of the original dark fluid. If you do a third change at 20,000 miles, you have about 7% of the original left.

If there's an internal problem causing the darkening due to heat, it may not make much difference. On the other hand, the gentle slow cleanup may extend the life the most of the choices. Just use regular Dexron III replacement fluid.

A question for those who have taken one apart...
is the cooler inside the radiator prone to clogging and reducing flow so that it makes the transmission overheat in some cases?

I have a 1997 Lesabre, I have been told and shown my fluid is "burnt" and needs to be replaced ASAP.

Chris.

Is the fluid a dark, dark red and just smell burnt? Dexron has a smell.

Or is it a brown.

Here's a page about transmission fluids.
http://www.aa1car.com/library/atf.htm

Brown.

Hot Z - The trans in that BMW was a GM HydraMatic 4L30E. I guess they DO build a decent vehicle sometimes...

If the transmission was changed regularly this will be enough to help clean up any areas....

Not necessarily. :grinno: Put some Seafoam in (at least 8 oz) and run it for a few weeks before doing the pan drop service and see how the Dex-III looks.

Just my opinion but I think it is a good idea to run Seafoam through before doing the pan drop service. You want the crud like old clutch pack material out of the system.

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y186/lizzywiz/DSC00109.jpg


http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y186/lizzywiz/DSC00001-1.jpg

I placed mine with the magnet where it should be. Works like champ.


I thought the original magnet location was under the main fluid return drain. That was it captures the magnetic particles in any of the fluid returning to the sump.

I thought the original magnet location was under the main fluid return drain. That was it captures the magnetic particles in any of the fluid returning to the sump.

This was a 4T65E not 4T60E for demonstration purposes. On a 4T65E that location is where the magnet is placed at delivery. It really doesn't make any difference where the magnet is placed because as we pointed out it is ineffective. For example much of the clutch pack material is non metallic so the main defense is the screen filter.

I remember watching a friend try to get a trans pan off. It was stuck on pretty good. Any good advice on how to get one off?

Thanks for all the posts,

Chris.

So you guys know all this stuff about a transmissions, but can't tell me how to get the pan off if it's stuck on?
I watched a guy use a screwdriver on his car and he gouged the bottom of the transmission. I don't want to do it that way. What do I do if it doesn't come off easy?

Thank you for any advice,

Chris.

Is yours stuck or are you speculating?

I have never heard of a GM FWD Trans Pan being stuck on... The 60-E and 65-E are 20 bolt pans... Are all of the bolts removed? And if so, you may need to give the pan a light tap( Never had to do this before )...

I have a 4T60-E, With a Large Trans Cooler... I run this cooler as I live In Florida and it does get pretty hot here in the spring and summer.. Easy enough for the Trans to easily spike to 230F.. The Cooler keeps the Trans temps at about 160F, I do see spikes to 180F when i am in stop and go traffic..

But after almost 2 years, and about 20,000 Miles this is what the fluid looked like when I pulled the pan
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v294/Jr3800/THM%204T60-E/HPIM1183.jpg

Before I added the Cooler I used to change the Fluid( Coastal Dexron III ) Before the hot season and after the hot season.. So the Trans has stayed clean.. This trans from the pic above is currently at 171,000 not so friendly driven miles:smile:

That trans looks good for 171,000!
I am getting ready to do mine. It's wasn't a GM Trans Pan I watched. It was a Honda or Toyota, I think.
Makes me feel good to hear GM's are not like that.

Sure wish I could find another person/place that says, "over half the total fill" will be replaced if I change the filter/pan. Other places say very little is changed of the whole system if you just do a pan. Seems like Blue Bowtie knows what hes talking about tho.

Thanks for the reply's,
Chris.

Before I added the Cooler I used to change the Fluid( Coastal Dexron III ) Before the hot season and after the hot season.. So the Trans has stayed clean.
Did you pull the pan each time you did it? I don't see a drain plug on yours.

Still debating on weather or not to do the plug or just drop the pan each time. Seems like the plug kit will leave 1/4 inch of fluid on the bottom of the pan. The most important stuff to get.

Chris.

That trans looks good for 171,000!
I am getting ready to do mine. It's wasn't a GM Trans Pan I watched. It was a Honda or Toyota, I think.
Makes me feel good to hear GM's are not like that.

Sure wish I could find another person/place that says, "over half the total fill" will be replaced if I change the filter/pan. Other places say very little is changed of the whole system if you just do a pan. Seems like Blue Bowtie knows what hes talking about tho.

Thanks for the reply's,
Chris.

Well you will be at 12-13 Qts from Bone dry... But when changing the fluid and filter, you will most likely remove half the fluid.... You fill will be in the 6-7 Quart area after the filter and pan gasket change( if you have an original pan gasket in good shape, reuse it and toss the one in the kit to the side )

I have heard a lot about how the 4T60-E and 4T65-E don't overheat too bad... I think that this depends a lot on the climate you are in.. No matter how its controlled the Torque Converter will develop heat... I have seen a battery of the 4T60-E's burn up down here... Fluid that looked like it was fried... That would mean the clutches and seals were destroyed from heat as well....

I installed a 4T60-E that My Buddy and Myself rebuilt.. When I drained the fluid from the original Trans it was fried... Its no wonder the trans was shot..

Same goes for a 2001 Chevy Astro we worked on.. The trans was cooked... And it was cooked so bad that the steels were damaged... The friction plates were broken in 2... It was really bad..

Even on these cars, with the 4T60-E, 4T65-E I would strongly recommend at the very least servicing the trans once a year, The trans will thank you in the long run:smile:

Did you pull the pan each time you did it? I don't see a drain plug on yours.

Still debating on weather or not to do the plug or just drop the pan each time. Seems like the plug kit will leave 1/4 inch of fluid on the bottom of the pan. The most important stuff to get.

Chris.

I dumped the pan each time... No drain plug.. I just use a small 3/8 air ratchet or a 3/8 impact and take the bolts out( Let me repeat that, I only remove the bolts with the air, they bolts go back in by hand )... And I let it drain into a large cheapie Sterlite Container( I think they are a little over $4 in the housewares department at Wally World ) I find they work better than an oil catch pan as they are large enough to contain the trans fluid... Saves a lot of messes for $4...

Yeah I am not sure of the drain plug either, but it would make it easier for me to drain it for pan removal... I may just do without the Plug tho.. With the Coolers I use, I tend to go a little longer between fluid changes now.. I prefer to yank the pan and clean everything out of it and then reinstall it..

Did you pull the pan each time you did it? I don't see a drain plug on yours.

Still debating on weather or not to do the plug or just drop the pan each time. Seems like the plug kit will leave 1/4 inch of fluid on the bottom of the pan. The most important stuff to get.

Chris. Chris, I think you have missed the point and purpose of the drain plug. It is not installed as an aid to quickly drain the fluid and install more fluid. The real purpose is to help facilitate the removal of the pan without making such a mess. If you use the plug to drain the majority of the fluid before dropping the pan, the job becomes much easier and less chaotic. GM thought that by not installing a drain in the pan, it would make the owners change the filter, along with trans fluid service. Basically, if you change the filter, you have to drop the pan and add more fluid!

The OEM gaskets used on the 4T60E and 4T65E, are silicone impregnated rubber, so therefore, they will not stick to the trans. They simply drop down with the pan when the bolts are loosened. I think Jrs3800 fluid change schedules are somewhat overkill and he must be a glutton for punishment, however, he does know what a rebuild cost and would rather be safe than sorry! BTW, never install the cork gaskets that come with most filters on the trans pan. If the old one still looks good and not leaking, reuse it. If it was damaged, or leaking, replace it with OEM quality only! :grinyes:

Bo I do agree with everything you have just said.. Yes the way I changed my fluid was overkill... And I sure am a punishment box...LOL

After looking over the Drain Plugs that have been used, I am seriously considering using them in my cars... It would save a lot of messiness for me...

My main concern for changing the fluid like I did was to avoid future problems and keep the trans happy for a long time to come... Little did I know the car would be on the 3rd motor, but the trans was still with me... And the original motor got Mobil 1 for its oil changes and still went south( part of that my own fault, I admit I drive them hard )

The pan in my pic did have the Cork Gasket and was leaking a bit when I yanked the pan and it was also the reason I removed the pan, As I can't stand to have an engine or trans that leaks( Drives me insane )...

I wish I knew what happened to the original pan gasket... But I started getting the filter / gasket kits from advance... At the lease they have a rubber gasket as opposed to the cork, and for the most part I have had good luck with those and no leaks until I change the fluid and filter..LOL

If at all possible I do recommend that when you do replace the filter, inspect the original pan gasket, if its in good shape reuse it as it is the best gasket out there...( Most of the Dexron III Transmissions were designed to be sealed for life ) But on the 60-E you had a 50k or 100k interval according to the owners manual... I have felt that 30k may have been a better number..

I think I am somewhat off topic,

But, How many people actually replace the Metal/Rubber Flange Seal in the pump inlet bore?

The reason I ask this is that I know a lot of people that don't replace this and are nervous to do so... I replace mine every time I do the service...

Not knowing a lot about transmissions, it is a SHOCK to think of not replacing a gasket, just using the old one.
Sounds reasonable, just find it different from what I thought it would be.

Getting ready to do it any day now. One last question. If I jack it up, put it on Jack stands, the front is higher then the back. Will that prevent some fluid from coming out that normally would?

Also, Seafoam sounds good, except on my situation. I need to keep some of the crap in and not clean it all out. That's why I'm not exchanging all the fluid.

Chris.

Getting ready to do it any day now. One last question. If I jack it up, put it on Jack stands, the front is higher then the back. Will that prevent some fluid from coming out that normally would?NO, in fact it might help get more out!

I was thinking if I have to buy 6-7 quarts of fluid, plus a filter, how does that compare with the transmission shops price of just doing a pan/filter (not flush).

The guy at the transsmission shop said a pan/filter will get rid of 4 quarts. I told him not on mine, it's more like 6 or 7. He said nope. He's owned the shop for almost 20 years and it's only 4 quarts.

I thought, great, now I have the guys on the forums saying one thing, and a transmission shop owner saying only 4.

On the way home, I stopped at the Buick Dealer and asked the service Dept. He said in a 97 Buick LeSabre it is 4 Quarts.

Maybe just a pan drop and filter with only 4 quarts might not be enough.

I don't want to do the drain plug thing. Maybe I should and use it just to change the fluid at close intervals to get the old fluid out?

Chris.

Buy 7 Quarts...

When you refill, see what it takes to bring it to the center part of the crosshatch....

After that, you'll be saying so much for 4 quarts

The guy at the transsmission shop said a pan/filter will get rid of 4 quarts. I told him not on mine, it's more like 6 or 7. He said nope. He's owned the shop for almost 20 years and it's only 4 quarts.

I thought, great, now I have the guys on the forums saying one thing, and a transmission shop owner saying only 4.
Chris.

I just drained mine and replaced filter. It's 6.5 quarts in my case.

You can go to Advance auto parts and get a filter at about $15 IIRC. Then stop at Walmart and pick up the Walmart brand of fluid: two 4 quart containers of DexronIII-Mercon for under $2 quart or you can pick up 7 quart bottles of Dexron III-mercon at about $2 per.

Or you can use the newer Dexron VI at $2.97 quart. Pick up 7 quarts. I used the newer Dexron VI because it's a little thinner. I wonder if it has some synthetic in it.

Reuse the original gasket.

Reuse the original seal around the neck of the filter where it swedges up into the case.

... The guy at the transsmission shop said a pan/filter will get rid of 4 quarts. I told him not on mine, it's more like 6 or 7. He said nope. He's owned the shop for almost 20 years and it's only 4 quarts.

Tell him you'd like to change it in his living room, and you'll use a one gallon catch pan. See how sure he is of himself then. Better yet, avoid the place. If he's forgetting about half of the volume of the torque converter draining, I wonder what else he forgets about on a routine basis? Meh, maybe he was thinking of something else. Every 4T60/65 I've done drops at least 6 quarts if it's even close to being filled. I've done one or two.

BTW - HotZ covered it, but the plug is really only intended to make draining easier so you can drop the pan (with no mess) to change the filter. Just like a drain plug on an axle (some have them) making it easy to drain, but you'll still want to pull the cover for a close look.

Or you can use the newer Dexron VI at $2.97 quart. Pick up 7 quarts. I used the newer Dexron VI because it's a little thinner. I wonder if it has some synthetic in it.

It is a synthetic blend. Anyone else using it other than me or imidazol97?

Also, when I do a pan drop I pull the 1-2, 2-3 accumulator. You'll be surprised how more old ATF you can get out of the system. :grinyes:

fyi,
I went to two other places and asked, just out of curiosity. One said 4 quarts, the other said, 4.5. The 4.5 guy I asked, 'are you sure?" He said he's done nothing else but transmission fluid changes all day for 8 years. "4.5 to 5 max" he said.

Can't believe every shop in town doesn't know much oil is needed.

Chris.

If we're wrong, you'll have a couple quarts left over. If we're right, you'll be walking to the store to get two more. It's your call, but I know I've drained seven, and a few others are saying the same thing.

I have no interest in selling you any more trans oil, but they may have an interest in selling you a transmission.

Yea, I didn't post to mean people here are wrong, just what I hear when I asked around today.
I'm going to get 6 to start out. I can always get more.
What is a "1-2, 2-3 accumulator?"
Chris.

An accumulator is an enclosed chamber used to hold a volume of a fluid under pressure.

In your transmission, there are accumulators constructed around the valve body separator plate which are used to supply an additional volume of oil to quickly and completely actuate the servo(s) when a valve spool is shifted. The accumulator merely retains a reserve of oil under spring pressure against a piston to expedite the shift and prevent slippage.

If there were no accumulators, the 2nd (band) servo would actuate more slowly as the necessary volume of oil from the oil pump was allowed to flow past the valve spool t fill the servo chamber. The same system is used to quickly complete the actuation of the 3-4 clutch for the 2 to 3 upshift.

An accumulator can also be used in just the opposite manner, to cushion the hydraulic force when a valve spool is shifted, allowing a slower pressure rise in the hydraulic circuit. This is done in some transmissions on the low/reverse clutch when shifting from neutral to reverse or drive. AFAIK, the 4Ts don't have an auxiliary reverse valve or accumulator to soften the initial engagement, but rely on the calibrated sizes of valve spools and oil passages to control the application speed of the low/reverse clutch and either the reverse input or forward clutches on initial engagement.

Why do you ask? Is someone suggesting a problem with your accumulator(s)? Clean oil can also insure their proper operation, since they can be a real trap for debris.

I think his reply is in reference to my suggestion about accumulators not that he has any issues. :grinno:

Anyways, a pic is worth a thousand words. (56K WARNING)


http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y186/lizzywiz/DSC00014-1.jpg
1-2, 2-3 Accumulator


http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y186/lizzywiz/DSC00005.jpg
1-2, 2-3 Accumulator Removed

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y186/lizzywiz/DSC00007-1.jpg
1-2, 2-3 Accumulator Partially Disassembled

fyi,
I went to two other places and asked, just out of curiosity. One said 4 quarts, the other said, 4.5. The 4.5 guy I asked, 'are you sure?" He said he's done nothing else but transmission fluid changes all day for 8 years. "4.5 to 5 max" he said.

Can't believe every shop in town doesn't know much oil is needed.

Chris.

Maybe that might be the case with a 4L60-E, but not a 4T60-E...

Trust me when I say on any THM440-T4( 4T60 ), 4T60-E and 4T65-E you will need 6-6.5 Quarts...

I have no idea where they are getting 4 - 4.5 quarts.... That would be slip city for any of the transmissions I listed.... I am just amazed

JRS - I trust you, since I have experienced the same results.

And for reference, the 4L60s will drain a lot more than 4 quarts, too, even the shallow-pan versions.

Say, Mr. Naylor, that was very accommodating of you to disassemble your transmission just to demonstrate a point. ;) I see that you also found evidence of goo and debris in your accumulators. Further (graphical) reason to change the oil regularly.

Of course maximum ATF capacities between Buick models vary but you'll get at least 7.5 qts out of a 4T65E and replacing or draining the screen filter. Providing it was filled properly in the first place. And that is without dropping the accumulator. I've got so much old Dexron-III sitting in my garage that I need to get it to a recycle place soon.

Say, Mr. Naylor, that was very accommodating of you to disassemble your transmission just to demonstrate a point. ;) I see that you also found evidence of goo and debris in your accumulators. Further (graphical) reason to change the oil regularly.

File footage. :lol:

Best way to get any possible goo or debris out of the accumulator is to remove, disassemble and clean it out. Plus inspect all parts like the springs, pistons, seals, etc. for serviceability.

JRS - I trust you, since I have experienced the same results.

And for reference, the 4L60s will drain a lot more than 4 quarts, too, even the shallow-pan versions.

Say, Mr. Naylor, that was very accommodating of you to disassemble your transmission just to demonstrate a point. ;) I see that you also found evidence of goo and debris in your accumulators. Further (graphical) reason to change the oil regularly.

Yeah I wasn't 100% on the 4L60-E... But thanks for the info.... I haven't heard of many GM FWD Transmissions that will only drain 4 Quarts..

We removed a 4L60-E from a Chevy Astro and had it rebuilt... It was fried... Fluid was black.... And it took a bit to get the Internal cooler flushed out...

From Bone dry I had told my buddy that it would take at least 1 case of Dex III to fill it... I think it may have been 13 quarts... He thought I was nuts... We used that whole case and more...lol

I am just dumbfounded that he's being told by these shops its only 4-4.5 quarts.. LMAO

Straight from the owners manual of a 92 PA with the 4T60E the same as used in the 92-97 LeSabre. Of course, the LeSabre did not get the 4T65E until 1998. We have been taking about both in this thread!
http://img90.imageshack.us/img90/2745/capicitydf1.jpg

Of course, the LeSabre did not get the 4T65E until 1998. We have been taking about both in this thread!


Well, duh Bo! I was aware of that. :lol: I think they both got intermingled back somewheres on the first page around post #4. No big deal. I qualified all my posts. :grinyes:

And I would not assume other Buick models with the same autotransaxle have the same total system capacity or amount of ATF pulled on a pan drop which includes typically the screen filter.

For example in the 1996 Regal owner's manual in which they were equipped with the 4T60E autotransaxle it says 7 qts. :runaround: But that data is irrelevant to this year LeSabre.

Also the OM to include FSM specify approximate capacities.

Back to the OP's dumb situation it sure sounds like the inbreds in his area have confused engine oil and filter capacity with tranny capacity. :2cents:

'Scuse me, but does that read "4 quarts" on that label? I'm thinking that asking a guy who sells transmissions instead of transmission oil might not be the best idea. There is likely a bit of a conflict there.

I knew what Mr. Naylor was talking about, since he made the distinction early on. I also knew the refill capacity 4T60E. Good to see that someone went to the trouble to find the info in the FSM. :thumbsup:

Incidentally, it's a darned good thing we're not doing this oil/filter change for flat rate - We'd have lost our shirts by now.

'Scuse me, but does that read "4 quarts" on that label? .

Yup, we covered that issue already in some other thread in the very recent past....right Bo? Discrepancies in the GM documentation which was later corrected....or eventually. :runaround: I'd hate to see another rehash.


For refresher see link below:

Click here (http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=897896&highlight=capacity)

it sure sounds like the inbreds in his area have confused engine oil and filter capacity with tranny capacity. :rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:http://www.websmileys.com/sm/happy/540.gif:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

The bottom line is what does the dipstick indicate and you have to use common sense on this issue.http://www.websmileys.com/sm/happy/604.gif (http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/%5Bimg%5Dhttp://www.websmileys.com/sm/happy/604.gif%5B/img%5D)
I think with all the information provided in this thread we have more than answered the OP's original question and he should now realize that the 4T60E & 65E both hold more than 4-qts.:grinyes: Hey Bob, did you ever think about putting this and the "oil change" thread in the ‘Buick Tips & Maintenance’ section. If this ever comes up again, it would be easier to reference that section.

1 more silly question.

I've been reading this thread and I actually think I might try the pan drop myself now. Very interesting.

My question is (now it may be a doozy (stupid)). with the pan off what would happen if I turned the car on and put it into gear for a few seconds. would the transmission pump shoot out a bit more fluid?

I'm talking about a few seconds so no damage can be done due to friction.


No I'm not a mechanic from Happydog's town. And stop laughing at me, I can hear you all.

That wouldn't be advisable. The pump will try to draw air, possibly making it more difficult to draw clean oil once the transmission is refilled. Running with no oil pressure, even briefly, could cause bushing damage. The small amount of additional fluid you might displace would not be worth the risk of damage. Just drain it, remove the filter (whereupon more will drain), clean out the pan, clean the magnet, and wipe all exposed surfaces with paper towels or lint-free cloths. You could go to the extent of removing the lower cover and cleaning the accumulators and exposed surfaces, but simply getting clean oil in the trans should be a benefit.

The pan can be removed fairly cleanly if you only loosen the bolts only slightly. Fluid should start to drain from just one place before the entire thing lets go. If you place your drain pan under the trans pan, be ready to move it to the appropriate location, and remain patient while the fluid drains, you should be able to "steer" the draining fluid by alternately loosening and snugging the various pan bolts. As a precaution, it would be a good idea to spread old newspaper or some other absorbent/protective material on the garage floor before you begin.

Get it done soon - The longer we discuss it, the longer you run on dirty oil.

The pan can be removed fairly cleanly if you only loosen the bolts only slightly. Fluid should start to drain from just one place before the entire thing lets go. If you place your drain pan under the trans pan, be ready to move it to the appropriate location, and remain patient while the fluid drains, you should be able to "steer" the draining fluid by alternately loosening and snugging the various pan bolts.



Man, I feel compelled to post some more file pics. :naughty:

Just my opinion but the best place to start the drain is at the narrow part of the pan located towards passenger side. Minimal catch pan steering. :grinyes:

(56K WARNING)

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y186/lizzywiz/DSC09996.jpg


http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y186/lizzywiz/DSC09998.jpg

No I'm not a mechanic from Happydog's town. I finally found a pic of "Happydog's" trans mechanic (on the right) and dealer service person (on the left)! :rofl:

http://img362.imageshack.us/img362/8797/brotherscx4vm9.jpg


it sure sounds like the inbreds in his area have confused engine oil and filter capacity with tranny capacity.

Got finished with the transmission. It was easy. Took 4 quarts.

Just kidding. I had so much trust in 6 quarts, I put the 6 in and when I checked, it was way low on the stick. Not sure how full it was when I started, but I put in about 7 quarts.

Thank you for the replys. U gave me confadence to do the job.

Thanks for the pictures as well.

Chris.

Thanks for the feedback Chris! We did have some fun in this thread and we appreciate your not taking any of it personal. We were just having fun with the ones who gave you poor advice. Good thing that you did not just put 4-qts in and start driving, or you would be replacing the trans in a few days! Maybe that was the motivation behind the dealer and trans shop telling you to put only 4-qts in? $$$$$$

I finally found a pic of "Happydog's" trans mechanic (on the right) and dealer service person (on the left)! :rofl:

http://img362.imageshack.us/img362/8797/brotherscx4vm9.jpg


:rofl:

Sort of reminds me of the mutants in "The Hill Have Eyes" or "Texas Chainsaw Massacre". Be careful where you break down. :lol: