1998 Olds 88LS Starting Problem

My Olds 88LS didn't start for my wife the other day. Then I went out to check it and it started just fine for me. It's been working just fine for a few days now, so I let my son take it out and the darn thing wouldn't start for him at the shopping center. He left it there and got a ride with a friend.

Can someone tell me where the starter solenoid is located on this car? Is it in a location that I can get at it easily if I pick one up and go there to replace it right in the parking lot or is it mounted on the starter motor (which I believe has to be changed by removing the right front wheel; I wouldn't want to be doing that in a parking lot, lol)? They have both told me that there is no clicking when they try to start the car so I think it is the solenoid that's acting up.

Thanks.

QC

All guess work here, first does the security lite stay during the no start, second are the battery terminals clean and tight, 3rd when it will not crank is there power to the solenoid, I don't think you will change this starter in the parking lot, if needed. BTW starter is on the l/s front of the engine.

Don't know the answers to your questions as the car has not misbehaved on me, just on the other two members of the family.

I am going down to the shopping center to check cables, etc. and try to get it going so I can work on it in the garage; I was just wondering about the location of the solenoid before I go there. I'll look for it - sounds like it's somewhere between the battery and the left side of the engine near the front, then. If I find it, I'll try the screwdriver trick to get it home.

Thanks

QC

It is mounted on the starter.

Thanks again, maxwedge. I suspected that was the case. I like when they install the solenoids on top near the battery like on some Fords, it's really easy to get at them.

I've looked at the car and can now answer your questions.

The security light goes out as normal during the no start. I took the battery over to get it tested and it tested OK (I suspected the battery because it is a five year old replacement with a six year warranty, but it was OK). I suppose that also rules out the alternator, right, since you need the alternator/generator to charge it?

The cables/battery terminals are clean and tight. I don't know if there is power to the solenoid, but am almost sure that if there is, there is no power to the starter motor, lol. The solenoid does NOT click at all.

So this leaves the solemoid and/or starter motor, or even, God forbid, a wire fault somewhere.

I had a quick look at the bottom left side of the engine compartment at the parking lot and it looks like I need to remove the plastic undercover to get at the starter motor, so I will have the car towed (the sucker wouldn't start at all) and do the job at home.

QC

Alright I am making some headway.

I've called all parts suppliers in my area and most wanted to sell me a starter motor/solenoid rebuilt combo. I did find one that sold me just the solenoid. If I also need the motor I can buy that when and if required. The solenoid is $15 and the motor $185 !!!

I went to remove the solenoid and got as far as disconnecting the electrical wires. Then I found out I need a torx socket wrench set to remove the three small bolts holding the solenoid in place. I am having difficulty finding one such set. I took one of my torx driver male tips and tried to compare it to the bolt heads and it appears that they are T25 in size (.173" outside tip to tip). The nearest torx socket size to that appears to be E5 (.18" inside tip to tip). See here http://www.wihatools.com/Marketing/torxspec.htm. Also the space in which to work to remove these bolts is very small. Can anyone, who has done this job, tell me what tool kit and size to buy to get these bolts out?

Wow, it's amazing the lengths automakers go to ensure that do-it-yourselfers have an awful time doing the work !!!

QC

Get a cheap set of torx, really the only way to buy them

Get a cheap set of torx, really the only way to buy them

I have a set of torx bits - those are easy top find. What I need is a set of torx sockets - the females - those aren't so easy to find - most hardware stores don't carry them. I've talked to to a few auto parts stores and nobody has them. They have to order them from pictures and no one seems to know much about them!

Never had a problem, both Napa and Carquest get them in 1 day!

Tried them, they were only able to order me a socket e-6 size and up!

I've ordered a whole set online that includes a bunch of torx sockets starting at e-4. In the meantime the car sits there on jacks, lol.

I also was NOT able to find any type of ratchet that would let me remove the solenoid alone because of the small 3/4" clearance between the mount and the heads of these little torx headed bolts!

So, this $15 solenoid replacement will require removal of the plastic undercover (done), removal of a heavy steel bar across the bottom (to get at the starter motor), and removal of the entire starter motor/solenoid set (to get at the solenoid)! Like someone at one of the shops said, GM does not want us to be backyard mechanics !!! I wonder if they design this complexity on purpose to soak us at the repair shop!

QC

Most cars built today you cannot remove the solenoid without removing the starter, this has nothing to do with a "GM design".

I'm glad I've got other vehicles to drive while this one is up on stands, lol. This starter motor/solenoid is quite a challenge!

I now have a torx socket set that I ordered online which includes the E-5 size.

The bolts holding the large bar across the bottom of the car won't budge - they're rusted in too badly and I don't have a torch to loosen them. But it looks like I'll be able to remove the starter without removing that, if....

I got the bolt on the starter motor towards the front of the car off, but can't get the other one (towards the back) off because of a piece of plastic that covers it. I removed a piece of plastic immediately behind the one I can't remove which covers the sprocket that the starter motor drives (it was held on with two easily visible bolts). However, there is this other piece of plastic just in front of the one I have removed that appears to wrap around the starter and covers up the other bolt head. Does anyone know how this piece of plastic comes off without breaking it off?

Since I believe there will be some that will benefit from a write up of my experience and how I got the car starting again like new, here it goes:

This is for a 1998 Olds 88LS. I thought the solenoid was at fault, but found that I had to remove the starter motor to get the solenoid off of it. To remove the solenoid from the motor, I had to order a set of torx wrenches online. The solenoid is attached to the starter motor with 3 T-25 bolts which require an E-5 torx socket to remove. As it turned out in my case, the motor was looser than a 90 year old woman, so I had to replace the motor (which came with a solenoid attached for $185 after core credit. The solenoid alone was about $13 after core credit). As it turned out I did not need the torx socket, but will probably come in handy one day.

Now to remove the starter motor:

1) Remove the plastic undercover across the front underside of the car.
2) Remove the two plastic parts near the starter motor - one wraps around the motor and the other is immediately behind the first. The one behind is easy to remove (two 10 mm hex bolts underneath). The one that wraps around the motor covers the back bolt retaining the motor and is itself attached with a single 10 mm hex bolt located just above the U-channel bar in front of the motor. You will not see it without an angle mirror. I removed mine with a 10 mm open end wrench by feel (it's a bugger to get it out and put it back in). You cannot fit a socket to it because of the tight clearance. Good luck with this one. Once the bolt is removed you need to wiggle the piece of plastic off - it's rather tricky but it will come. Ditto to put it back in.
3) Once the plastic parts are removed, you can remove the two hex bolts holding the motor/solenoid assembly in place quite easily with a socket wrench. Make sure to disconnect the electricals before removing the motor bolts.
4) Put everything back in reverse order.

Hope this helps. I wish I had this information before I started mine. That would have saved me a lot of aggravation and a bit of money.

QC

That is why to do repairs at home requires prior experience and/or the proper tools and access to some tech info or at least a basic shop manual. What happens in many cases people get so far into a repair and find out they are in over their head, not saying this was your case, then they seek help either here or any source they have access to. Steps are missed, issues are misdiagnosed, online it is impossible to see these situations and as a result both the poster and the people replying find the whole process can be frustrating. Good job getting to the root problem.

That is why to do repairs at home requires prior experience and/or the proper tools and access to some tech info or at least a basic shop manual. What happens in many cases people get so far into a repair and find out they are in over their head, not saying this was your case, then they seek help either here or any source they have access to. Steps are missed, issues are misdiagnosed, online it is impossible to see these situations and as a result both the poster and the people replying find the whole process can be frustrating. Good job getting to the root problem.

Thanks for your posts maxwedge.

Unfortunately this site was of very little help to assist me with my problem. And, isn't that what this site is supposed to do for its members? Fortunately I received much more beneficial and quick help over at ***LINK REMOVED BY MODERATOR***, which really helped me out. In return, I've posted here a how-to for the benefit of others.

I have been doing mechanical work on my dozen or so vehicles since 1977 and find that, with each new model, it is getting harder and harder to fix anything on all makes of cars that I've had. This Oldsmobile has been the biggest lemon I've ever owned, by far, bar none, domestic or import. If the extremely general comments I've been offered here were the only help I got I'd still be working on it. In reality I think I would have been better off having borrowed a Chilton's repair manual, covering about ten model years, at my local library than asking any questions here.

The work I do on my cars is typically one of a kind repairs as I do it on my own vehicles and not for a living, so having prior experience with any one job I undertake is not an option. Every job is new. I may have done a starter motor before but this one was different from anything I'd ever seen in every way. I may have replace a fuel tank, done brakes on various cars, replaced a blower motor on this one, etc. etc., but every single job is different so a little help dealing with the speciffic job at hand is what I look for when I post about a problem I have. Generalized information is of precious little value.

I have lots of tools for all sorts of jobs, but it seems that every time I turn around to do a job, the manufacturers have gone out of their way to introduce new wrinkles in tool requirements, such as a hard to find torx wrench socket that was not available anywhere near a major city and foreign metric sized bolts on a vehicle made in the USA! There is no need to defend the automakers. Sometimes I wonder if they don't spend more time making things difficult than actually designing the freaking car (and of course all at out expense - both capital and maintenance).

QC

Keeping in mind everyone here has a job and normal day to day responsibilities and are volunteer participants, I feel in general, based on vague issues/improper diagnostics and repair techniques that we get into and cannot see, for the most part, we are doing a good job. Sorry you think that we are not as supportive as we could/should be, but you have other options as you know.

:rolleyes:.................:shakehead


Sorry but ranting time is over. This thread has been closed.