4T65E Trans Shift Hard, P1811 DTC

I always pop the axle out with a pry bar......

Better jack that vehicle up quite a bit, you are going to have to lower that cradle quite a bit......

Thanks for the tip Tech Il. I'll take some measurements to see how much I'll have to drop the cradle to clear the upper frame "rail".

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Make sure to disconnect your intermediate shaft. If it were me, I would use an engine support as opposed to a jack underneath. If you do use an engine support get one for a transverse engine, should have 3 legs. You tube has or did have some vids of people who replaced the PCS by dropping their sub frame. with the engine support not only does it hold from above , you can drop the engine trans down or crank it back up

I always pop the axle out with a pry bar......

Better jack that vehicle up quite a bit, you are going to have to lower that cradle quite a bit......

You make it sound so easy, "pop the axle out with a pry bar...."

Just how easy should it come? I tried prying, rotating the axle, then prying again. I was at it for over an hour.

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You have to remember, I've always done this on a lift.......every time I tried it, it popped right out(may have had to rotate the axle).....the proper tool is a slide hammer with a u shaped attachment that goes around the end of the axle.....

I noticed in some pictures of others prying the axle out, there appeared to be over an inch between the transmission and subframe just below the axle. I have maybe 3/4 inch. Is 3/4 inch typical? It's on a 99 Lesahre.

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I go sideways, parallel to the subframe.....

OK,tried that. There's not much room for the prybar. I tried placing it behind the inner CV joint then hit the prybar sideways with a hammer. I've got a friend with a slide hammer who should be able to get it out for me. I can't believe I'm the only one who has this trouble. I can feel about 2 mm endplay as it slides against that inner snap ring, but it will not budge past that. Mind you, I don't have a long prybar either, not that a longer prybar would fit sideways as you suggested.

We got the axle out. I think it's a worthwhile note for anyone attempting the PCS replacement that the axle needs a fair bit of leverage to get out. There's not much room when the car is on jackstands to put a decent lever underneath. Even from sideways, like Tech II suggested, to squeeze yourself between a garage floor and the underbody, AND get enough leverage requires you to be a contortionist. I'm sure it can come out fairly easily for some but don't be surprised if it isn't as easy as they say.
Remember, Tech II had a lift.

Thanks Tech II, I appreciate your help.

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the driver side is a lot harder to remove the axle than the passenger due to the sub frame I bought the Kent Moore GM special tool that bolts up to a 5lb OTC slide hammer. I think that is the trick though at getting the axle out. it is not pressure it is a sudden forcefull "shock". Here is my vid I made. Pleas note. I also replaced a wheel bearing and a ball joint, so a lot more was removed than what would need to to remove the CV AXLE, although if u are replacing the PCS, it will look familiar.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FK5S51dJQho

BTW Seems the tie rod ends threaded shaft spin freely and will need to be replaced if the nut is loosened and separated.

Thanks.

You have some nice tools, including the lower ball joint tool. I used a hammer on the stud housing and they came free quite easily, with a little shifting of the lower control arm and hub.

However, for all those neat tools, I'm surprised you didn't get this:
http://www.oem-tools.com/products/show/27037

Maybe I'm paranoid, but hitting the end of the axle shaft to pop the hub off may damage the CV joint, from what I hear. I do realize, however, you were replacing your axle making that point moot in your case.

Just a copule of points regarding your video (nice video, BTW):
1) For those of you doing the job yourself, he didn't show removing the cotter pins from the castle nuts of the ball joint and tie rod ends. the lower ball joint cotter pin was a real pain to remove. It probably took me a 1/2 hour to get out. And that was the cotter pin only.
2) Don't expect the strut to knuckle bolts to come out as easily as they did in the video. I had one that was quite stubborn.
3) removing the caliper may require that the caliper piston be compressed a little, if the rotors are worn any.

You made everything look easy, and to many it probably is. Murphies law dictates that I will experience every difficulty at every step.

I am about to lower the sub frame tomorrow. I've got the car supported on the frame supports (in between the rear sub frame mount and pinch weld seam... check your own service manual to verify safe support points). In general I don't trust pinch weld seams to support the car. I've got a couple of 3 ton jacks so that I can lower the sub frame inch by inch.

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Too much is being removed...you do not have to disconnect the outer tie rod.....do not have to mess with the stabilizer link....do not have to remove steering knuckle(certainly do not have to remove it from the strut)....

Remove caliper, and hang with something, so no stress on the rubber hose.....if brake line is attached to strut, disconnect it, so it is free of strut.....remove the axle nut and drive the center of the axle back just so it loosens from bearing....

Remove cotter pin from castle nut.....remove nut....special tool I use is a large cold chisel.....I wedge it between the bottom edge of the knuckle(away from the boot), and one of the pop rivets of the lower ball joint...give the chisel a few whacks, and it releases the ball joint....using a pry bar, I lower the control arm, remove the ball joint from the knuckle and pull the knuckle/strut assembly outward and to the rear(while pushing the axle inward), and I now have the end of the axle free....now just pop the axle out of the tranny....I recommend a new axle seal, when doing a job like this....

If you are not strong enough, it helps to have someone pull the strut outward towards the rear(while turning the strut assembly like a left turn), while you grab the axle and pull it inward to disengage it(remember, the axle has to be driven loose from the bearing before doing this)....

The issue with the axle removal is when prying on it you are cocking the axle which makes it difficult to get past the snap ring, if possible use 2 pry bars opposite from each other.

I forgot to mention that I'm replacing struts too. It makes sense to do it at the same time. I'm kind of glad I loosened the stabilizer link, for myself. It makes it easier to pry the control arm down, and I discovered the bolt inside the stabilizer link was rusted out.

I can see, though, that it is possible to do the job without removing the stablizer link.

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How many of you who have removed the side pan on a LeSabre/Bonneville/88 had to separate the sub-frame? I cannot seem to get it out between the valve body and sub-frame.

I just checked again... I think I'll get yet. The top is hung up on the brake lines. Tech II really means it when he says you have to drop it really low. Keep in mind, I had to remove the frame bolts on both sides.

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ok, I will not be able to remove the side pan without separating the left side of the cradle from the engine. At least, on this car, there is not enough clearance between the side pan and cradle to slide it out. I could probably change the solenoids out now, but I'd feel much better with the new side pan gasket I already have, plus the ability to clean things up before re-installing.

Now I have to locate a 3 arm engine support.

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For those of you considering doing the shift and PC solenoids on a Lesabre, get a 3 point engine support bar and two lengths of 5/16 grade 70 chain. This will allow you to raise or lower the engine independently of the subframe. For some years, makes, or models you may be able to do this job by lowering the engine and sub frame together, but not on mine.

I got the two shift solenoids, pwm solenoid, and the PCS all done. I've got the side pan back on and am working at getting the engine and sub frame back into place.

On a side note, for those of you who are crazy enough to drop the sub frame, paint a little POR 15 on the frame where the sub frame mounts. This may slow corrosion.

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Hi , I have a 2000 buick century 2000 with about 54000 miles .A couple of days ago we were in the mountains driving 4up fairly quickly with no problems . After returning home and having dinner we decided to go out to eat . We drove on the interstate and after a few miles the car starting shifting really hard . We pulled off the interstate and stopped for about an hour. Once we started again the car shifted normally . I had the trans fluid changed ( fluid only no filter ) a couple of weeks ago . Since then no problems .Researching I came across this thread . Should I go the shift kit route ,or is this appear to be a once of event . Thaks . Rod

l tried the shift kit and it didn't help. For others, it did. I suppose it's worth trying, but be prepared to replace the solenoids.

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you all can replace all that stuff fluid, solenoid valve, shift kit, or whatever.
But the problem is in the tranny .

The2nd gear clutch is bad in most of these. if your dipstick has some black on it. It is from the 2nd gear clutch pack wearing out

NHTSA has a service bulletin out # 10020766
1st -2nd shift shudder replace complete 2nd clutch assembly :frown:

and info on valve body recon bulletin #10025065 for harsh shifting or slipping

FWIW, I haven't had a single shudder since I replaced the solenoids.

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I have to say I was experiencing harsh shifts after running awhile and maybe 2 - 3 times a month a thump like the trans was shifting when starting out. My downstream ox sensor failed ( CEL on with code) I installed a new one, a lot of the harsh shifting and random thump went away. I cleaned the other ox sensor with sensor safe TB cleaner. Now the trans works perfect. Maybe the downstream ox just needed cleaning. Glad I kept it, will try sometime. No codes or pending codes, only when the downstream ox failed I got a code.

This illustrates the necessity for proper diagnosis. A harsh shift is not necessarily caused by a bad clutch, but it could be. I'm glad la1's was easy to fix. I figure I went as deep into a tranny as I'd want to, so I'm kind of lucky too.

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well maybe I might have been too quick to judgment for the harsh shifting. It is still cold here and my version of harsh shift usually happened during a long drive in hot weather. I could get it to go away by merely turning off the ignition and back on again. The harsh shifts did happen rarely around town. The ones around town disappeared so far. The main plus was the false shift after going a few feet was gone. I clean my MAF and all the sensors...never did the OX though till now. My sister has a Nissan( 3 cars since the one above) that 60% of the time the car would start off in second gear . I cleaned her MAF with sensor safe TB CLEANER. problem alleviated. Her MAF was one of the clear film types. I always thought the harsh shift on 4T65E's was due to the PCS leaking fluid past. The PCM would see a drop in line pressure and command higher pressure to save the clutch pack. The higher pressure causes the harsh shift.

What is the brand name of the shirt kit (if you don't mind BNailer) and can I drain the Tq. converter on my 4T65E transaxle?

UPDATE, While trying to find the source of an oil leak ( either LIM or oil pump drive/distributer blank) I removed my TB ( throttle body) the 2 bolts were real loose and the gasket was like a sheet of plastic and showed signs of leaking. Really improved performance and have not had any harsh shifts , just good clean trans action. here is the link to the vid I made
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OLS_Y_MDnJE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OLS_Y_MDnJE

Wow, what an informative thread. Thank you so much. I sure wish I had read this before I put $1800 into a rebuilt trans for my 1999 Silhoutte, which had a bad slipping problem since bought it from my Uncle. He was unable to get the Olds shop to deal with it, since it came and went. Rbuilt unit .... same problem. So the shop that sold me the rebuild put another rebuild in .... same problem. They then told me to go away and not come back, that the problem was sensor related somehow, told me to try an electrical shop. (Jesse Lewis was the shop, they are good, just not as smart as the experts on this thread!)

Anyway, now my 2001 Silhoutte is acting up, albeit more violently. Not slipping like the 1999 is wont to do, but rather shuddering at 40-45 mph, on the upshift, feels like it might come apart! My brother thought it a broken motor mount (no), my dad a half shaft (dont think so) the guy who sold me tires thought it wheel bearings (changed out perfectly fine bearings) and another tire mechanic said "bent rim." Nope.

SO ... I will soon try the Sea Foam and Dex IV. I am a half way (or is it half assed) DIY er ..... should I attempt the shift kit changeout? Can I buy one from the local autoparts stores? Should I just try the Dex 4 and Sea Foam first, and then, if that is not enough, go for the shift kit attempt? I do have a wrench twisting brother who bails me out if (when) I get in over my head.

Advice?

Thanks! Bryan

Doesn't anyone ever go for a test drive, with a Tech II in snapshot mode anymore?

Doesn't anyone ever go for a test drive, with a Tech II in snapshot mode anymore?

Eh? I do not follow?

Doesn't anyone ever go for a test drive, with a Tech II in snapshot mode anymore?

That would make diagnosis too easy and quick. They wouldn't make as much money on customers coming back a dozen times to solve a problem. I'm not sure what it's like elsewhere, but I have yet to find a shop that can find regular normal problems quickly through systematic diagnosis. I'm a DIY, not a pro, so I'm not exactly systematic either. But I'd expect some one with years of training, experience, and tools I can only dream of owning, they can diagnose better and faster than I.

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Shuddering has begun again.

I'm also dealing with water leaks in the HVAC intake, flakey grounds, ... I think I'm done with GM. My 92 Grand Marquis, while not perfect, has stood up better and still going.

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I've owned many 4t65e transmissions. And I am MAST ASE cert

If you keep these boxes cool you will get 300k out of one but here's the thing!
Get yourself a Scangauge2 and enter the transmission code to monitor your fluid temp asap!

In a car. Buick Chevy. With a little cooler you should be at 170-180 with 95 f ambient temp. Don't worry about winter months as it will get up to 140f with no problem.

In a heavy loaded van. Venture etc. you will need a big cooler! Or maybe two normal sized coolers just to keep the temp at 170-180f because of the oversized Torque converter.

remember trans fluid only lasts 30 mins at 280f.
At 220 trans fluid starts breaking down.
OUCH!

If your running a 195f engine thermostat replace it with a 180f!
Keep the underhood temps as low as you can get it this is where the scan gauge tool shines!

I've had codes 1811
It's Not a worn out trans! It's bad fluid and heat!

Long shift times etc and made the trans-should ft kit my self with bushings from a local hardware store for 6 dollars. The kit is 30 online. Accumulator spacers!

bottom line take care of the fluid every 30k. And keep it cool! I like 175f after an hour of driving! They are great transmissions with very a sensitive PCM! Any shift that is longer then .75 of a second it will set your trans code! fluid thickness plays a big part when it's super hot! It's like water so takes longer to build pressure as with cooler fluid! Spend the few bucks and time now and your transmission will take care of you.

I've a 2006 SS Impala. The first 4T65E trans failed just after the GM warranty period! Of course!!! It cost me $3200.00 to replace it with a 'Factory Certified' ( from Star Chevrolet in Greensburg, PA ) rebuilt one. They told me there were no 'new' ones. BS! (FYI Do not take your car there!) :mad:

Anyway, a couple of weeks after the replacement was installed... it started slipping between 1st and 2nd, and 3rd and 4th. It would slip... then SLAM into gear. Took it back to the shop (Star Chevrolet in Greensburg, PA) and left it there for a week ( and I know I shouldn't have ) where they put over 60... 60 miles on my car, and told me nothing was wrong with it. :jerking: I don't have to say, I WAS PISSED! As I pulled out of their parking lot, of course, the transmission slipped going into 2nd and then slammed into gear!

The little shop where I have general maintenance done on my car told me to put half a bottle of 'Lucas Transmission Fix' in it, and that it was amazing stuff. I did.

After driving the car several times after adding the Lucas, the slippage happened less and less. It stopped slipping completely after about 2 weeks and hasn't shifted weird since. In fact, I believe the transmission actually shifts smoother and faster than before.

I agree with my local mechanic. I love the 'Lucas Transmission Fix'! It worked! :bigthumb:

(I do not work for Lucas, by the way.)

I have been researching like crazy to find a solution, I stumbled upon this and I hope someone can help. I have a 2005 chevy impala with the p1811 code. Driving uphill is a pain I will be cruising at 60 mph and once I start going uphill the mph goes down to about 40 and I have to really give it gas to make it go. I have changed the catalytic converter, new plugs, wires, fuel filter. All made a difference from when I first bought it. I have a shift kit in the garage but I'm not sure if installing it will help. Can someone please for the love of baby Jesus give your thoughts!!!

Yeah, well. What you describe can be anything from a flat tire to a faulty TPS.:sarcasmsign:

Funny
... not...

I've a 2006 SS Impala. The first 4T65E trans failed just after the GM warranty period! Of course!!! It cost me $3200.00 to replace it with a 'Factory Certified' ( from Star Chevrolet in Greensburg, PA ) rebuilt one. They told me there were no 'new' ones. BS! (FYI Do not take your car there!) :mad:

Anyway, a couple of weeks after the replacement was installed... it started slipping between 1st and 2nd, and 3rd and 4th. It would slip... then SLAM into gear. Took it back to the shop (Star Chevrolet in Greensburg, PA) and left it there for a week ( and I know I shouldn't have ) where they put over 60... 60 miles on my car, and told me nothing was wrong with it. :jerking: I don't have to say, I WAS PISSED! As I pulled out of their parking lot, of course, the transmission slipped going into 2nd and then slammed into gear!

The little shop where I have general maintenance done on my car told me to put half a bottle of 'Lucas Transmission Fix' in it, and that it was amazing stuff. I did.

After driving the car several times after adding the Lucas, the slippage happened less and less. It stopped slipping completely after about 2 weeks and hasn't shifted weird since. In fact, I believe the transmission actually shifts smoother and faster than before.

I agree with my local mechanic. I love the 'Lucas Transmission Fix'! It worked! :bigthumb:

(I do not work for Lucas, by the way.)

Lucas is good!
I had a 02 Alero, Got the tranny pretty hot one day/ lots of stop and go.....
Had to turn around, Put it in drive BAM!!!!! Put in reverse BAM!!!!!!
Turning the car off never dropped the pressure. Bottle of Lucas, and a week later!!!!!
Perfect till I got rid of the car. About 5 years at least!!