P0107: MAP/BARO Circuit Low Input

I have a '97 Lesabre that is running great, but had an engine code recently. The code is P0107, MAP/BARO Circuit Low Input. The car runs fine, but the code has registered twice. Has anyone seen this code before in a Lesabre? Thanks.

Typically a P0107 DTC is a bad MAP sensor located at the right hand side of the UIM over the PCV. The PCM module has detected either a constant short to low or an open either in the signal circuit or the MAP sensor itself. It won't hurt to check the PCM 5 volt low reference signal at the input wire of the electrical connector first to make sure it is getting the reference signal. Easy part to replace or control substitute with a known good one but may be up there in cost.

You'll also want to inspect the bushing which seals the MAP sensor stem to the intake plenum. If the bushing is deteriorated and leaking, the MAP reading will be consistently low.

Actually for that respective DTC to set it is just not low as far as actual manifold absolute pressure but way off electrically via either an open or short. The PCM module is alot smarter than we are. :eek:

Signs of a bad MAP accordian seal is oil dripping from the plastic forked holder and the PCM detecting actual low or out of range MAP per what is programmed in since it has to look at the desired values. In other words other DTCs should be present if that were the case, the most notable is the EGR valve flow test will fail generating a P0401 DTC.

Here is an old MAP sensor out of a Series II 3800 engine that I saved in my bad parts bin. Incidentally, it generated a consistent P0107 DTC.

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y186/lizzywiz/DSC05798.jpg

Actually for that respective DTC to set it is just not low as far as actual manifold absolute pressure but way off electrically via either an open or short. The PCM module is alot smarter than we are.
:iagree:
Conditions for Setting the DTC
The MAP sensor voltage is less than 0.10 volt for more than 4 seconds.
Based on the above, I agree that this is much more than a vacuum leak!
If reference voltage checks OK, time to replace the MAP sensor. :iceslolan
http://img147.imageshack.us/img147/2295/mapmt2.jpg

And I agree with you Bo......:uhoh:.......:lol:

Of course we die hards would run an engine vacuum test just to be sure. As far as basic performance on this MAP sensor and voltage on the output to the PCM module about 2.0 volts at deceleration closed throttle - high engine vacuum and 4.0 volts at WOT low engine vacuum. And I forgot to mention when that accordian seal seen in the pics really gets bad you'll see low engine vacuum on the vacuum gauge (0-30 in-hg) type and around the MAP sensor area may hear this hissing or buzzing sound. Best part is this DTC is not a bad one to have since it doesn't affect driveability but should be corrected nonetheless. PCM just reverts to default values and other engine parameters. Like I said earlier smart!

The bushing is coming apart. It is probably time for a new sensor. Thanks.

Try a new seal first, then see if the PCM is smarter...

I'll wait.

I thought it was a bushing. :lol:......:rolleyes:

The seal is an integral part of the MAP sensor based on the way it is manufactured and not available separately therefore the MAP sensor must be replaced in it's entirety. The way it mounts in the plastic bracket and inserts into the top of the PCV valve precludes any vacuum leaks and it is an accordian seal so it compresses.

And it is not the cause of the P0107 DTC. As suggested the OP needs to check the PCM 5 volt low reference signal first at the electrical connector input. If that is good then the MAP sensor is the next likely possibility. But the output of the MAP should be checked and it must be greater .1 volts. If the MAP doesn't resolve the issue then the problem is wiring to the PCM module or the PCM module itself.

My MAP Sensor went out. I ordered from the internet. Mine came with OUT a rubber piece (Local Parts store called it a "grommet").

The picture from the site showed the rubber grommet but when I emailed them back, they told me the picture was for "illustration purposes only."

I used the one from my old one just to get it to fit in, but it is in very bad shape. Plus, I used a grinder to grind off the end plastic piece and grinded the rubber.

Any suggestions on what I can do? I was wondering if anyone had one out there that they could give me? What can we do to work out for me to get it?

Please give this a thought,
Thank you,
Chris.

My MAP Sensor went out. I ordered from the internet. Mine came with OUT a rubber piece (Local Parts store called it a "grommet").

The picture from the site showed the rubber grommet but when I emailed them back, they told me the picture was for "illustration purposes only."

I used the one from my old one just to get it to fit in, but it is in very bad shape. Plus, I used a grinder to grind off the end plastic piece and grinded the rubber.

Any suggestions on what I can do? I was wondering if anyone had one out there that they could give me? What can we do to work out for me to get it?

Please give this a thought,
Thank you,
Chris.

:confused:

What internet site or supplier did you purchase the MAP sensor from? That doesn't sound right. :grinno:

You may have been short changed. I know for a fact the OEM AC Delco and aftermarket Wells/Duralast (Autozone) MAP sensors come with the seal or grommet, whatever we desire to call it. That is a one of a kind or unique part. Even Dorman doesn't market just the seal and I don't recall it being available from a GM dealership or AC Delco supplier separately.

The MAP sensor seal I posted in my pic is serviceable and probably in better shape than yours. Just send me a PM message with your mailing address . I'll remove it and mail it to you by first class USPS. Reminder: No not post private info in a post.

I recall you had alot of issues with your LeSabre. How did you determine you have a bad MAP sensor and what was the odb-ii DTC, if any?

When we changed the U & LIM, when taking the MAP out, it broke in half. After that, when I started it, it ran at a high idle and wouldn't go back down.

Your right, you can't buy the rubber piece anywhere. That's what makes me mad.

The place I ordered it from was, "Global Automotive" on eBay motors.

They kept my money for two weeks before they shipped. I was waiting all that time not being able to drive. When I finally got it, I couldn't use it. I had to search around the stuff in the (friends) garage and was glad to find it before we cleaned up and through stuff away.

My very reliable car, isn't running right now. Turns over but doesn't start.

Na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na, nothing. Befroe it did this, when driving slow, sometimes it would intermittently sputter and slow down to a crawl. Once I got back up to speed it would go OK for a while.

Waiting to find someone with a fuel presser gage to see if I have fuel presser.

Someone told me to switch the wires on the fuel pump and run it in reverse for a few seconds. that cleans and makes them work again. I am a frade to do that. I'm not about to switch wires on the gas tank and turn it on for a few seconds.

Thank you,
Chirs.

And if Mr. Naylor's gracious offer of his spare bushing isn't the correct fit, I have another spare which is 0.227" I.D. and fits a 0.437" bore, if that will help you. It's still reasonably pliable.

Sorry if I "jinxed" you by all this talk of seals, grommets, and bushings, but it seems that's the case.

I picked up a new MAP sensor today. The parts store said they listed 3 different numbers for a MAP sensor for a 97 Buick. I didn't have the OEM number on me, so I looked at the 2 they had in stock. They looked identical. I wrote down the 2 numbers for the ones in stock and bought one of the sensors.

I am home now and neither of the 2 numbers match the number on the original sensor. The sensor looks just like the one in the car though, although the new one is by BWD.

Does anyone know why they list 3 numbers? What's the difference? I am wondering if this one will actually work. I can return it, but not if I have installed it. I have looked at some on-line auto parts stores and they only show one MAP sensor listing for a '97 Lesabre.

They did not sell the rubber grommet separate from the sensor.

Not sure on the MAP, but I do know in the middle of 97 they changed somethings so an "early" has one part and a "later" has another.

Like I said, not sure what's going on with the MAP #, just that there IS some things on a 97 I've ran into that's split in the year.

The place where you bought it should be able to tell you what the difference is, or what one you need. How could they not know what part you need at a place that's selling you a part.

If not, try another place, ask them to see what they say. If they list only one, ask back at the (3) place that no one else does that.
Hope this helps in any way. Sorry if it doesn't.
Chris.

Chris,
When you purchased yours on-line, did they ask you for the OEM off the old sensor? I was wondering if you needed to provide a specific # to get the right one for your '97 Lesabre.

I will give O'Reilly's a call tomorrow morning and see if they can order the one I need. The one I bought was $60. He said if I needed the one they didn't have, it would be $12 more. Thanks.

The parts store said they listed 3 different numbers for a MAP sensor for a 97 Buick.
Does anyone know why they list 3 numbers? Listed below are six (6) different MAP sensor brands (part numbers) and they all fit the 97 VIN (K). Notice they may have different part numbers; however, they all perform the same function.


ORIGINAL GM PART # 12569241 MAP SENSOR

ACDELCO PART # 213796 #09359409} (MAP) SENSOR

STANDARD MOTOR PRODUCTS PART # AS59 {MAP SENSOR}

BWD AUTOMOTIVE – (MAP) SENSOR PART # EC1636

GP SORENSEN SENSOR (MAP) PART # 77911558

NIEHOFF IGNITION (MAP) SENSOR WITH OEM # 16187556; PART # FE1636

How about adding a 7th Bo? :wink:

Wells/Duralast SU1078 available at Autozone. Around $45.00.

BTW - This brand does not having any identifying numbers just a specially sealed top with potting compound supposedly eliminating the need for a cover which is claimed to protect the internal electronic circuitry better against thermal and mechanical shocks.

Thanks Bob, normally I don't buy AZ parts, but this looks like a good price and warranty. They must be cheaper in your area! :thumbsup:
About this product: Part Number: SU1078 Warranty: 2 YR Note: O.E.M. #16187556 Pricing: $53.99

http://img87.imageshack.us/img87/6284/map2gg6.jpg

You're welcome. Yeah Bo I know what you mean. I'm not a fan of Autozone either but in a bind I'll consider buying parts from them. Interesting how AZ's prices vary nationwide. :eek: Cost here is $44.99 to be exact plus state sales tax.

A good friend of mine that works at the nearest one by me let me take a picture of the sensor. Now you can picture the sealed top I was referring to. May be a good alternative MAP sensor but who knows for sure. :dunno:

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y186/lizzywiz/DSC06021.jpg

I have the BWD EC1636, which is the right one from what I have read. Thanks! The guy at O'Reilly was giving me numbers from other brands (apparently). The other part in stock was 9359409, which also would have worked. I'll install it tomorrow.

It is hard to find domestic built parts for your American built car nowadays! Even Borg Warner (BWD) has a sticker attached identifying place of origin. Notice: “Made in Mexico” is applied to all BWD parts. :screwy:

Thanks Bob for taking the time to snap a pic and post it! Personally I am aware of what you were talking about when you said "specially sealed top with potting compound supposedly eliminating the need for a cover", however, for those who could not visualize this, I will provide a close-up and edited version (digital magic) of your pic for better viewing. :iceslolan

http://img441.imageshack.us/img441/751/map6yp9.jpg

I got mine for $20. I think it's been figured out now, but different brands would have different part #.

Before you start replacing parts make sure your oil level us correct. The engine was overfilled by 1/16th inch on the dipstick. It caused the bottom of the PCV valve to get oily and stick due to the oil's surface pressure. As soon as I dropped out about a cup or so of engine oil and cleaned the PCV the P0107 went away. I have a 1997 Buick LaSabre. It took a while to figure this out, but I finally put 2 and 2 together and viola. Hope it helps someone.:banghead:

I seriously doubt that....the fact that you had to remove the MAP to wipe the PCV valve, it could have been the connection at the MAP, o-ring out of place, sticking PCV, etc......

Sorry, but have seen the oil overfilled many times on that engine and not cause that problem....

I seriously doubt that....the fact that you had to remove the MAP to wipe the PCV valve, it could have been the connection at the MAP, o-ring out of place, sticking PCV, etc......

Sorry, but have seen the oil overfilled many times on that engine and not cause that problem....

I respectfully disagree. I changed oil on 1/7/2013 and my daughter uses this car to go to college. She's been back 4 times since and I erased that code 4 times. I replaced the PCV valve 2 weeks ago helped for about 5 minutes until the oil got hot. Today I dropped that oil out a bit and she just drove back 170 miles to college with no code showing up. That was it.

I was beating my head against the wall over this. Tried vaccum testing, checked connections, nothing. I replaced that MAP sensor 3 years ago couldn't believe it would have gone bad again.

Thanks Bob, normally I don't buy AZ parts, but this looks like a good price and warranty. They must be cheaper in your area! :thumbsup:
About this product: Part Number: SU1078 Warranty: 2 YR Note: O.E.M. #16187556 Pricing: $53.99
http://img87.imageshack.us/img87/6284/map2gg6.jpg

A friend once bought a part cheaper at Autozone, took off the sticker and underneath was the more expensive brand. Of course, not everything is like that but some times it's the same part "re-branded."

Chris.