2004 Grand Am transmission trouble

hey guys

2004 grand am, 3.4L

iv search and searched, had the dealer look at it, its under warrenty, pulled some bull tsb about the throttle body whistling

my good mechanic said he thinks it might be the transmission but not sure, told to go to this tranny specialist friend to see if he's heard it before

when ever the car is in gear and only during acceleartion (load) i hear this whinning/howl coming from the front end, its rpm dependant, sometimes it does it, sometimes not, usually between 1500-2200 rpm, can hear it really loud going up hills

on the highway its fine, higher speeds nothing, its only during light/moderate acceleartion

i had the tranny fluid+filter changed at 130 000km it now has 160 000km, im not absolutely sure but it seems to be getting worse and noticably more frequent

i know its hard to diagnose sounds over the net but have found a few posts about this sound here on this forum

if anyone can help me out it would be amazing, if anyone has resolved this issue etc, i have warrenty until 175000 km and want to get this fixed before then

thanks

peac
JP

Welcome to AF.

Your post has been moved.

Please look at the dates before posting in outdated threads.
We dont need to bring up threads older then 3 months!

On the trany noise, hard to say but it's probly not good.
The trans specialist find anything ?
Any trouble codes ?

Sorry about that jackpot !
It appears I closed your thread on accident, its reopened!

:sorry:

hey guys

sorry it took so long to reply, dont frequent these forums much as the GAOC.

This issue is still persiting and I only have 10k km left on my warranty.

I had a trans specialist shop drop my pan and have a look, said everything looked clean, no metal flakes, filled it up with new fluid and a new filter, so thats 2 fluid/filter changes iv had in 30k km lol

I have no SES light, had another place plug in a scanner recently, said there were no codes (not sure if their reader, reads everything, like codes that dont give a light)

the dealership that looked at in months and months ago, before the trans specialist, tried to say it was a throttle body whistle, im like yea right guys, they didnt want to look at it anymore saying thats what is is and its not covered under warranty, BS its the throttle body,

the sound is coming from the drivers side near the wheel, obviously the tranny, two other mechanics, one being the trans specialist said its the tranny, however they arnt sure if its going to fail but the noise is coming from there regardless for sure.

sometimes when im going up a hill its really bad, sound travels across my entire front end and sounds like its gonna fall apart, the whine/howl vibrates at such a frequency that all these different pitches of sound are produced.

that other thread that you said was too old for myself to post in had a TSB about our 04 grand am/alero's build from jan-july i believe, having the tranny chain/driven sprocket be 5/8 inch opposed to 7/8

thanks

peace
JP

Your troubles with the noise and hill surge is partialy from the valve body defect(s). The pistons start to wear the bore and cuase excess build up thus causing fluctualting trans pressure, making it surge. ;)

As far as the differential chains, I pretty certain the 5/8 was used 97-03, then was up graded to the 7/8". The pump shaft and turbine was also upgraded(enlarged) in 2003 sometime.

I just rebuilt one of these not to long ago, now both my 99 GA's have 2003 tranys.
I destroyed my differential damaging my trans case, so I upgraded to a 2003 case .... plus a few othe rminor modifications. :naughty:

Have a scanner tool ran while you are driving up some inclines, should be able to see the line pressure drop or fluctuate irraticly.

At $4000 for a new transmission , the stealership will NEVER admit the troubles unless you broke it and it wasnt driveable. :2cents:

Good Luck

If xeroinfinity's answer was still not the problem it sounds exactly like what my problem was on my growl and blah blah blah after a water pump changed. I got my answer yesterday and posted there but will post here too. Check the flywheel. Not sounding like I know anything but my sounds were doing something similar. Idle was horrible, highway it was clean and beautiful, between first and second I would hear it, and over powering the motor or letting off the gas I heard it. Went through gears fine. Have them check the flywheel or have some buddy check it before you take it to them. You cna never know with a dealer, maybe they will take out the transmission and find the flywheel is broke, laugh and chnage that $50 part only and clean up the transmission and tell you you have a new one and all good to go.

your thread has been re-reopend. :lol:

At $4000 for a new transmission , the stealership will NEVER admit the troubles unless you broke it and it wasnt driveable. :2cents:

(Hint, hint; nudge, nudge; wink, wink) :biggrin:

lol neutral drop the auto

I would be very upset for them to say it was caused by abuse and void the warranty

even tho obviously it wasnt caused by abuse

wouldnt it be noticable.....maybe some tips through pm lol

peace
JP

:lol:
Yeah they'd know a neutral drop it would probly break thing pretty good , and it might not be driveable.

I'd say the noise is probly normal pressure hiss coming from the pump on the drivers side. :dunno:

Does that common valve body problem cause pressure loss? I wonder if a pressure loss could cause the clutches to slip? :dunno:

so tommorow might be my day

I recently called GM, oooo what a time I had with them, went right off the deep end, didnt yell at the guy on the phone but spoke my opinion very strongly, very dissatisfied etc

One thing I think I got em on, the dealership in town (I was there to have my a/c done under warranty) and asked to have the guy come with myself, he said that noise is coming from the tranny but they dont have any tranny guys at this dealership in town but he's training a guy

I said but your not a tranny guy and your training someone

He says yup

Im like, ooook

so much for taking the car to any GM dealership with my warranty, said this to the guy on the phone and that basically voids the warranty.

regardless at the end of the convo the guy said, no prob sir we will get your tranny fixed for you

I was very happy

Went out to my local mechanic, auto trans specialist, told him the good news, im going out there tommorow so they can call GM with myself and my car there

Since they will only pay to have the worn components replaced and since most the labour will be paid for, droppy/cracking/reinstalling the tranny, I figured mine as well do a complete rebuild at the same time (pay extra whatever to have it done, 400-500 im thinking)

Is there anything I can "beef" up at the same time or do you guys think I should just have it rebuilt to OEM etc. I dont "plan" on running boost (however I would love a turbo). At most just an exhaust, intake etc, about to lower the car.

Really I would like the tranny to last a while, best it can, any input appreciated

Buddies out at the tranny shop quoted myself originally at 1500 for a rebuild, I asked generally what that inquires, seals and so on, said the most expensive part is the TCC and thats about 250, without that its not really a rebuilt, their words, not sure if that includes a pump, would hope so. if I can get GM to pay 1000bux atleast ill be happy and believe im rightfully entitled as my tranny is having problems and I did pay more than that for a warranty (stupidly I know, should have put it in a shoebox lol)

will let you guys know how it goes

Peace
JP

Sounds good !
I dont know if the GM dealer would use anything other then OEM, but raybestos blue plate clutches are the best , and worth the extra $$ IMO.

Actualy the TCC isnt that expensive, the torque converter is about $350 and is something that would get changed with a full rebuild.

The stealership will most liky take it apart and repalce/fix the problem(s) and wont want to mess with a full rebuild.
A lot of them around here dont even open them. They just send them away and wait for a rebuild one to arrive. :rolleyes:

Hopefuly this will solve your issues, keep us posted & Good Luck !

thanks for the reply man

What I meant by my long post is that a private transmission mechanic in town (the only tranny guy in town) is who will most likely be doing the job, I talked to them about getting it rebuilt at the same time and they seem down with doing it and charging GM for most of it and the rest of the cost to rebuild id pay from my pocket.

The dealership in town doesnt even want to deal with my problem, their loss I figure, rather not deal with them anyway, dont like the one in my town for their customer service

Thats why I asked about anything I could get done that would be a good idea to inquire about, thanks for the tip about the clutch plates\

peace
JP

Well, I had an insurance adjuster come by and look at the car today, everythings a go, we have the authority from GM to rip into the trans

Right now its being determined weather they want to just replace the worn components or send an entire new trans

Either or im happy with, if they are going to replace the worn components then a rebuilt trans is alright, would prefer a new one but we'll see what happens.

Will try to determine what component was the cause of this whine

peace
JP

Thats great !
I personaly, would probly prefer a rebuilt one because the "new" trany could hav simular issues/problems.

I'd say the whine is something with the pump & valve body. :2cents:

hey guys

so update on the trans, my car is still in the shop, been about 2 weeks now...currently were waiting for another adjuster to come by to see the parts laid out

it seems GM will probably be replacing the worn parts oppoased to a new trans (fine by me), however at this point were not sure what parts they will replace, all of them (full rebuilt) or some or whatever no idea

if they decide to only replace some parts would I be a fool not to have him fully rebuilt it at the same time while its open (would cost myself out of pocket at that point for the parts a few hours labour etc)

he says visibly there is little wear, he is going to try to get them to cover everything so a full rebuilt wouldnt cost myself anything, would rather not have to pay more than the deductible if I dont have to

my questions a little vague but you know what I mean? lol

Thanks

so its been over a week waiting for this adjuster, i call GM and express my frustration, they call the adjusters and I get them to tell them to call my mechanic

next day I call my mechanic, he says, good news, we got approval, for everything, full rebuild? he quoted them at $3500, they got em down to $3300 lol

very happy

cant wait to get my car back!

got a brand new SLP exhaust to throw on it and whole new suspension, eibachs, gr-2s and all new mounts

Sounds like you hit the jackpot! :lol:

Did he say how long it would take to rebuild a week or two ?

lol thanks man, I know, I was a little worried at first, wondering what if anything additional this will cost me, then very pleased to hear im told its all covered, he got them to go for everything, he said he wants to replace ANYthing that could make noise so this beach doesnt whine anymore

he said, after almost 4weeks! that i should most liekly have it back next week, he thanked myself for my patience (as i havent been riding him, also he got into an accident recently, ok, and also dealing with custody shit in the city) i thanked him for being on my side the whole time and helping me get what i deserve out of these guys

i tell ya it wasnt easy, took almost 6months from the time i made the complaint (maybe even longer) until i actually got my tranny dropped.

cant wait to hear my exhaust, so lucky to grab the last 3 off pfyc (3 he randomly found in the warehouse after being discontinued forever), have an intake coming too, not a full cai but the one that sits in the engine bay (not gonna say wai cause...) tb replacement pipe, but i have the dimensions for the dr speed cab heatshield im gonna make one of those to help performance but keep it easy to change the filter

peace

here's some pics of my car before it got in the shop

http://i311.photobucket.com/albums/kk449/westcoast_ga/HPIM3293.jpg

http://i311.photobucket.com/albums/kk449/westcoast_ga/HPIM3291.jpg

http://i311.photobucket.com/albums/kk449/westcoast_ga/HPIM3271.jpg

http://i311.photobucket.com/albums/kk449/westcoast_ga/HPIM3277.jpg

http://i311.photobucket.com/albums/kk449/westcoast_ga/HPIM3309.jpg

http://i311.photobucket.com/albums/kk449/westcoast_ga/HPIM3290.jpg

http://i311.photobucket.com/albums/kk449/westcoast_ga/HPIM3284.jpg

Looks great!
I love the color and that rear wing, isnt that the sct wing?

yea it is, have been asked that so much its crazy, no idea how it got there, bought it like that, no hood, but yea guess the guy liked the wing?! lol

not sure if id get the hood, kinda like it flat like that, maybe if even a hood with a single scoop off center

thanks for the props man, take care

well I got my car back, tranny shifts so smooth (gotta get my mpracing PCM now and firm those shifts up lol), goes into D like butter, downshifts and shifts much more appropriately, very happy with the work and the outcome

however!

the car still whines!

either it is normal tranny noise or the noise isnt coming from the tranny lmao

my mechanic heard some strange noise around the PS pump area, is there any possability that this whine could be coming from my PS pump, even though it doesnt whine in N and only whines in D while under load?

really kind of a piss off that its not my tranny, kinda awesome I got a rebuilt one at 165k km tho lol, but its annoying, I just want my car not to whine like a beach!

Yeah these power steering pumps are known to whine when the fluids dirty(black) or the pumps getting ready to crap out.
Look at the power steering fluid on a white paper towel if its brown/black I would try draining and a small flush then add some new fluid and see if it doesnt quiten it down.
I have a procedure in the Tips and Maintenance (http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=2148)sub forum for this.

I thought I mentioned this in one of my earlier posts...

also that trans device you mentioned could void your warranty on your new trans.
The DHP PCM would be best for improving shifts and performance, and probly cheaper. :grinyes:

well I had the PS fluid flushed a while ago and I was noticing this the other day checking the level that the fluid looks really brown/black for being changed little less than a year ago, I thought it was a little low but I double checked cold and I dont think im loosing any fluid, it is very dark tho.
I can hear a slight noise around the PS pump just at idle, not the same howling whine as when im driving, im almost starting to think im hearing it come from the passenger side in the engine bay when im driving, so hard to pin point
Do you think maybe taking some fluid out and putting some high quality PS fluid conditioner would help?

I bought mpracings PCM tune when it was on sale for his birthday so I got a good deal, my warranty is with a small shop mechanic on the trans I doubt he would mind but I know what your saying. Im gonna tell him that its my DD so I dont want too much changed but would like the car to be more responsive.

Do you know of marks PCM tunes from mpracing? Do you think it will cause any harm/damage to my new trans or other components? I'm planning on having it tuned for my 2.5'' exhaust and intake too.

If you PS fluid was just flushed and its dark again you might need your hoses replaced. They break down over time and the fluid kinda eats at them causing it to become dirty and noisy. I wouldnt use any conditioners it could cause more problems from eating the hoses.

These pumps are a little noisy anyway, if it starts growling or any high pitched squeals its dying and not easy to change on these engines.

On the MP Pcm I didnt realy know they sold them, just checking it out now... I guess its kinda like the DHP(digital horse power) PCM. I wouldnt think it would damage your trans, but you sure could by abusingplaying more. :D

I'd rather be able to tune it myself, though if one doesnt have the tools and knowledge then it would be a good Mod for the price. :2cents:

by replacing the hoses and fluid would it possibly cease this whine or is that more a preventative deal so there is less wear on the pump?

its strange the noise is only while in D, there must be some type of load put onto the pump/bearings that isnt when the engine is just reved?

I suppose if it the bearings or something the pump would have to be replaced for this noise to stop, kinda annoying cause it works lol, is there any danger in leaving it, what would happen when it goes or does it just kinda go more and more

maybe i should start a new thread about this? really happy about my trans tho, thing is much better now than it was OEM from GM im sure, its nice to feel it shift!


iv looked into getting a tune for a while, havent had any need until lately tho, atleast an exhaust and intake is some modification ya know lol, im not even close to beginning to know how to tune my own pcm however, either was looking at the DHP as you mentioned or one from MP racing, lots of GA owners rave about marks tune tho
I decided to pay the core charge so I could keep my PCM and have another one, that way i could go back to stock and or switch them and send the one in for further tuning
now i just gotta find someone in town that can do a case learn (preferably someone besides the dealer, have yet to ask this shop i use if they can do it), that and get the serv # off my pcm, iv already prepaid for it at mp, was just waiting to get my car back, do some mods and get the serv #