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Transmission Problem (No OD)


Terminator840
10-10-2007, 09:47 PM
Hi I am new here my wife has a 2000 Intrigue GL. I have a couple of problems, first the transmission problem. The transmisson seems fine, but it will not shift into 4th OD. Now lets say I am doing 75 mph on the interstate I have the shifter (http://www.oldsmobileforum.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=1479&TPN=1#) in D, but the car is running in 3rd gear and the engine RPMs are about 3000 at that speed. If I let off the gas and coast the engine RPMs go all the way down to idle speed and its like the car is in neutral, and if I hit the gas it free revs up until 3000 rpms then it catchs 3rd gear. If I down shift into 3, the car acts normal in that if I let off the gas the gear slows the car down. I've had the trans serviced and flushed and I also added Lucas Oil trans fix with no luck. The car has a little over 100K and is not showing any codes on OBD. Is this a serious problem or something minor?

The car runs fine, but I hate driving it on the interstate now, with such high RPMs the gas mileage is terrible.

BNaylor
10-10-2007, 10:19 PM
Based on your symptoms you have more of a serious problem than minor. Classic symptoms of stripped 4th clutch shaft splines. This is a common problem on the GM 4T65E autotransaxle. Tranny rebuild/overhaul time.

mjadamczyk
10-22-2007, 06:16 PM
I have the same problem. But first it was idleing high, I change the Throttle postion sensor, a 5 minute job and a 20 dollar part. That fixed the high idle. But i am still missing overdrive. I bought a transmission shift selonoid. It was 26 bucks and i just have to find out where it goes. Good luch with yours and if you figure out what the problem is tell me cause our symtoms are exactly the same. Thanks

BNaylor
10-22-2007, 06:28 PM
I have the same problem. But first it was idleing high, I change the Throttle postion sensor, a 5 minute job and a 20 dollar part. That fixed the high idle. But i am still missing overdrive. I bought a transmission shift selonoid. It was 26 bucks and i just have to find out where it goes. Good luch with yours and if you figure out what the problem is tell me cause our symtoms are exactly the same. Thanks

Welcome to AF. Illustration below shows where the solenoids are located in the 4T65E autotransaxle. Also, keep in mind that it is not one specific shift solenoid such as the 1-2 or 2-3 that gives 4th gear - OD but both work together as a logic gate. For 4th, 1-2 is on/energized and 2-3 is off/de-energized.

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y186/lizzywiz/valvebody2.jpg

mjadamczyk
10-22-2007, 06:39 PM
Hey thanks! That will help me alot. So do you think i should change both sensors? It is only 26 more dollars which is much cheaper than taking it to a garage. Also, The check engine light comes on and it is the code #742 (i think) which states torque converter circuit stuck on. Do you think that these sensors are my problem?

BNaylor
10-22-2007, 06:50 PM
Hey thanks! That will help me alot. So do you think i should change both sensors? It is only 26 more dollars which is much cheaper than taking it to a garage. Also, The check engine light comes on and it is the code #742 (i think) which states torque converter circuit stuck on. Do you think that these sensors are my problem?

According to the DTC the TCC is detected as stuck on. It could be the electrical portion or hydraulic valve portion at the valve body. It refers to the TCC-PWM solenoid. When the DTC sets it will command TCC ON at high capacity and may even disable 4th - OD in Hot Mode. I would change all shift, the TCC and PCS solenoids. At the 20 way electrical connector you can ohm out the solenoid coil. Pins T-E. Reading around 10-15 ohms depending on the temperature.

When was the last tranny service - ATF and screen filter?

mjadamczyk
10-22-2007, 07:00 PM
The car has around 111,000 miles, I changed the fluid and filter I around 102,000. The first time it had problems I was driving down the highway and it would not shift out of overdrive. Then I manually downshift, and it never would shift back into OD. That was probably three weeks ago. I have been driving it since then. 95% of the time it will shift normal, just without overdrive. Then every once in a while, while slowing down to a stop sign. It will almost want to stay in a higher gear. Then after stoping, and accelerating it will shift hard. This usually only last for a few minutes. If I turn the car off and then back on, it will usually shift normal again, minus OD. When it shifts hard, the check engine light turns on, but as it goes out as soon as it starts shifting normal again.

BNaylor
10-22-2007, 07:34 PM
Based on what you are saying you may have some flaky solenoids starting with the TCC-PWM and possibly the PCS. In contrast to the OP that first addressed the issue with 4th - OD. Hard to say but yours doesn't sound mechanical like the 4th clutch shaft. Reason why is symptoms don't match. The prevalent symptom on a bad 4th clutch is the engine rpms going to zero or to idle and it will feel like it is in neutral. It doesn't stay in a higher gear.

Doing the solenoids is not exactly a DIY job since the tranny/engine is dropped down intact on the subframe to get the side cover off. Some shop equipment will be required.

As I mentioned earlier best to replace all of them.

unhappyoldsowner
07-17-2009, 02:15 PM
I have the exactly same problem as described in the first post (2001 Intrigue, everything normal except won't go into 4th and drops to idle if take my foot off the pedal at speed).

I took it to a shop that said if it was a hard part (like the 4th clutch shaft), they could do the job for around $800 (i.e., wouldn't require a complete rebuild).

Shop opened up the tranmission and surprise, they say it needs a full rebuild for $2,500: forward & direct clutches, torque converter, EPC solonoid. They insist there are no hard part problems (other than solonoid), but that the EPC solonoid was causing low line pressure, which damaged the clutches (4th worse than the others). They insist there is no damage to the 4th clutch shaft splines (says there is no such thing as a 4th clutch shaft, it has a hub). I recently (after noticing the problem) had the fluid and filter replaced, and was told the fluid was fine (not burnt and no evidence of metal). I was also told there were no codes.

1) How likely is it that these symptoms are caused by either low line pressure or a worn 4th/od clutch?

2) If he tells me that the clutches are worn and need to be replaced, should I believe him?

3) He clearly doesn't know whether the torque converter is damaged, he's just assuming it was because other things "overheated"--if I let him do the rebuild, should I let him replace the torque converter?

4) If I ask him to forget about it and just put it back together, what are the odds that it'll drive the same as before (i.e., I'll have 1-3 but not 4/od)?

5) Was there really any possibility that they could replace the 4th clutch shaft without doing a $2000 rebuild?

Thanks

mjadamczyk
07-17-2009, 04:50 PM
I have the exactly same problem as described in the first post (2001 Intrigue, everything normal except won't go into 4th and drops to idle if take my foot off the pedal at speed).

I took it to a shop that said if it was a hard part (like the 4th clutch shaft), they could do the job for around $800 (i.e., wouldn't require a complete rebuild).

Shop opened up the tranmission and surprise, they say it needs a full rebuild for $2,500: forward & direct clutches, torque converter, EPC solonoid. They insist there are no hard part problems (other than solonoid), but that the EPC solonoid was causing low line pressure, which damaged the clutches (4th worse than the others). They insist there is no damage to the 4th clutch shaft splines (says there is no such thing as a 4th clutch shaft, it has a hub). I recently (after noticing the problem) had the fluid and filter replaced, and was told the fluid was fine (not burnt and no evidence of metal). I was also told there were no codes.

1) How likely is it that these symptoms are caused by either low line pressure or a worn 4th/od clutch?

2) If he tells me that the clutches are worn and need to be replaced, should I believe him?

3) He clearly doesn't know whether the torque converter is damaged, he's just assuming it was because other things "overheated"--if I let him do the rebuild, should I let him replace the torque converter?

4) If I ask him to forget about it and just put it back together, what are the odds that it'll drive the same as before (i.e., I'll have 1-3 but not 4/od)?

5) Was there really any possibility that they could replace the 4th clutch shaft without doing a $2000 rebuild?

Thanks

I posted the 2000 intrigue where I lost overdrive around 111,000 miles. I have been driving it that way since then, I just haven't had the time or money to fix. Im at 132,000 now. I would like to fix it, but think I have a leaky head gasket too, (uses oil and antifreeze, but leaks nethier...). So I hate to put money into it , then have my head gasket go bad a shortly there after. Im just gonna drive it till she dies.

Mike

harmankardon35
07-17-2009, 09:37 PM
the filter does a good job at catching the metal after the 4th gear hub strips...change the fluid and filter and drive in 3rd gear....my grand prix went years like that! not great gas mileage but not bad

Crazace
07-27-2009, 07:39 PM
mjadam, the 3.5 just uses oil. I don't have any leaks at 127,000 miles, but it still uses a quart or two every 3000 miles. I notice more oil use the harder the engine is run. (winter is bad when I'm on it to get it out of snow and spinning the tires)

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