Ok so here is the deal. I have a 94 firebird and its given me nuthing but problems, ive gobe through 2 transmissions, 2 rear ends, 3 water pumps, blew my power steering and now the pully that held the pump on completely fell of and fucked up my belt, my car is stranded at my girlfriends house. I just bough a Pontiac 5.0 carburated from the 80s, and a 700r4 trans, it all is in very good condition and i picked it up for 150$ froma family friend.Whati need to know is basically everu thign i will need to be able to put this iin my firebird. i do not want to go fuel injected again and i want to completely get rid of the engie computer. i think illneed a new radiator, drive shaft, rear end, and engine mounts. But i dont know exactly what all i will need for this conversion. if any one knows of what all i will need andwear to find it please let me know as soon as possible thanks.

There is a sticky ("important" or whatever) on this subject, and I see you've posted in it, so you should have at least skimmed it. Most everything you need is in there. A word of advice, and this is pretty strange comming from me, the guy who does everything the hard way for fun: waste of time. Sell the thing as-is to some sucker, and use the proceeds plus a small loan (if needed) to obtain a grade-a mint low miles late 80's IROC Z. Get one with t-tops, t-tops are cool. Have the 305 "freshened up" at a local engine shop and keep it as a spare should you require a rebuild on the 5.7 TPI. The TPI system swaps over to a 5.0 just fine. Now you have a cool Camaro with a V8, posi, high performance suspension, and t-tops, so you can pick up a new girlfriend. The old one will probably dump you and your busted up 4th gen for a guy in a Integra. (just kidding!)

I admire your spirit, though, and if you really want to pull it off here are some important details in a short list, just to make it easier on you.

Front springs: must buy new or obtain good used for a 4th gen v8 car

X member/mounts: you need a v8 crossmember. that's any easy boneyard part. Motor mounts, buy new. They are cheap.

AIr bag and ABS: I haven't done anything on 4th gen Camaros, so I can't really tell you if pulling the old motor and ECU will effect these. Being pre-obd II I assume not. But it could cause issues. Research this FIRST!

Speedo and tach, other gauges : Will need replacing. Get aftermarket universal types, with an electronic programmable speedo. Don't try and splice in a 3rd gen gauge set.

ECU and wiring harness: remove from vehicle, try to make it neat. Good luck.

Carb: the carb on the 305 is computer controlled, it needs an ECU to adjust the fuel mixture, or it will run rich 24/7. Throw it away. Buy a holley street avenger 570cfm four barrel.

Intake mainfold: throw it away, buy a weiand stealth, edelbroch performer, or something similar. Go non-EGR.

Exhaust: buy a complete header back system. Get Summit racing headers from under $100. Good deal.

Transmission: the trans in your car is a 4l60, it is the same as a 700-r4, only a little modernized(yours has a v6 bell housing . and isn't interchangable with v8's) t's not "that" bad of a tranny. Whatever you were doing to it, stop, or the 700 r-4 will puke also. Early 700-r4's (84-85) are worse then all the others. Stay away from them... period. If you insist on beating the snot out of the car 24/7, get a rebuilt turbo 350 and deal with the bad gas mileage. If you have untold wealth you may opt for a $2200 gear vendors unit to give you 2 more gears plus overdrive. (yes, that'd be a 6 speed auto) You'll need to get some kind of adapter mount for the torque arm when using a 350.

Forgot something? yea, I probably did.... Lucky the other members on AF are happy to chime in.

Yup, just remembered:
Rear end: get a 10 bolt from a junkyard. Rear disc brakes are your friend. Still gotta research the ABS stuff prior to buying the rear end.

Emissions: do you have testing? If you do, you're fucked! a 305 four barrel, even with working EGR and a working (did they ever actually "work"?) computer controlled quadrajet you have no chance passing a 1994 standards test. In fact, if you live in CA, Governor Arnold is probably heading over in his Hummer H3 Hybrid to terminate you as I speak.

Thanks alot no i live in illinois so emisions aint a problem, but the trans problem wat happend was when i bought the car 2nd was fried, then the so called "car dealer" out another in but fucked up when he did it and the whole trans droped out from under the car while i was on my way home. so ihad my buddys dad Jerry Vanderlindy put in a new 4l60E. Hes the guy that built the red with white strpies mustang, thhats virtualy invincable in the nmce. Since then ive had no problems witht he trans. what is this 6 speed auto you were talkin bout? this in more ways than one caught my attention.

4l60-e transmissions came about starting in 94 (I was thinking 95 earlier)
It's still the original 700-r4 design but has a computer controlled valve body. Electronic shifting transmissions are impressive stock performers - now. Back in the 94-95 intoduction, the programming was full of bugs that only show up when real people drive real cars on real roads , not when engineers drive prototypes on test tracks. A cooked out 2nd was pretty common on 4l60-e and front drive 4t60-e versions.

Converting a TH350/400 to a six speed (also the Mopar Torqueflite 727/904 and Motorcraft C4/C6, Chrysler/Ford Transmissions not applicable here) Involves adding a Gear Vendors under/over drive unit. Gear Vendors are compact units that bolt in place of the tailshaft housing, adding an additional gear that can be used at will, adding 1 to 3 gears depending on your preference. Here's how it works:
start off in first gear. Instead of allowing the transmission to shift to second, activate the gear vendors. This is what gear vendors calls "first - over" a speed higher then first yet lower then second

Wind out in first-over and deactivate the gear vendors, shift into second and wind out once again

Rather then going from second right to 3rd (1:1 or "direct drive" ) re-activate the gear vendors for second-over, yet another in-between gear.

Kick out the gear vendors yet again for your shift into regular 3rd. With a regular 3 speed, you'd be stuck winding out to 3,000 rpm plus (this varies by rearend gear) to hit 65mph. This is one huge reason the engines in old cars that saw lots of highway use hardly turned 100,000 mi before needing a rebuild. Long term high rpm use kills motors quicker.

Not so with a gear vendors, activate one more time for overdrive Cruise at 65-70 mph at 2000 rpm! (once again, depends a lot on rear end gear)

A standard gear vendors is out-of-the-box customizable, you can set up full automatic shifting or bring it on-line manually. You can even get a shifter with thumb buttom and control it like that. Fully automatic, auto-manual and full manual are all possible. You might decide that first-over or second-over aren't helpful, so you can eliminate the use of one or both.

The electronics are simple, color coded wires plug into color coded connectors - it doesn't take an electrical genius to do it.

Gear Vendors boasts their units can handle 1,000+ hp

There is no cutting, welding, or fabricating involved.

The cost of a gear vendors is around $2200, plus a few bucks at a machine shop to shorten the driveshaft and install the special yoke. A decent performance TH350 will cost about a grand or so. a decent torque converter runs about $250-400 depending on what you want for stall. You'll need a lockup control, $160, to handle a lockup torque converter. This is essential for overdrives. Total cost? about $3500-4000
A REAL performance 700-r4 will cost at LEAST $2500. Don't expect a true high performance torque converter for under $800. Bare minimum you might squeak by for under $3500. With the engine computer gone, you still need a $160 lockup control. So, for about the same cost of an upgraded 4 speed, you can get a gear vendors with a 3 speed and enjoy 2 more gears. You can expect the 350 to be good for 600 hp or so. The 700r4 will last to maybe 450. Someone might point out that a 700r4 when built right can handle 800,900 perhaps even 1000 hp... that's true. Expect those to run $4000 or so, plus a $1200 torque converter.

My transmission price estimates are for units built in real transmission shops that know what the fuck they are doing. DO NOT EVER buy a tranmission off a website or a catalog. a $1300 so-called street/strip 700-r4 might hold up for 100,000 miles - in grandpa's Caprice Classic! Put it behind a mild 250-300hp small block, do a nice burnout, and watch it melt 2nd gear into mush. Beware of anyone who uses Alto "red eagle" clutches. MY local tranny shop has pulled apart plenty of "high performance" units to find the friction material FALLING OFF the backing. that's real performance!!

So that's a basic gear vendors 101, with a little 700-r4 tech thrown in.

Ok so, the reaserch i have done shows that the front springs for the V-6 and the V-8 are suposedly the saime. So for this engine swap i am goin to need a V-8 cross member= YET TO FINDS ONE, V-8 radiator= $223, engine mounts= 34 a peice. Also to freshen up the 5.0 ui wil need a gasket set, oil pump kit. Grand total includeing the 5.0 and 700r4 is $ 527. The 5.0 Cam out of an 80s pontiac Parasene station wagon. It is deafly obvius by look that some thins such as the fan will need to be repalced in order to fir this 5.0 under the hood of my firebird. But i do not know exactly what will need to be replaced, i hope that the engine mounts will move the engine back a little bit that way it will be slightly easyer to get things to fit but i realise that is very doubtfull. i am also thinkin that the 700r4 may not be the best to combine with this engine but i do not know any other alernatives because i would like to keep overdrive. the gear vendors sound very nice but since i am 17 and on a pritty limited budget i cant afford that right now. If any one has any more alternatives to this project of mine feel free to let me know but please if your idea is for a bigger engine that the 305 better known as the 5.0 please dont suggest it, i have considerd a 400, 350, 327, 454, and all that GOOD STUFF but realised that if i did that id modify them to much and have horrible gas milege (granted the v-8 will get bad gass anyway) I would also probably do to much to the engine and give it to much power for me and do something to stupid and hurt myself. if any one knows weasr i can get a cross member for the 94 firebird V-8 please let me know, other than the locla junk yard, i know that would be cheaper but i want to do this the right way. Would any one also happen to know aproximatly how many work hours this swap would take? I know others have done simmilar but i dont know if they went carburated or fuel injected. If any one has any advice, hints, tips, or anythign that will halp me to make this go smoother please let me know thanks.

I think the Parasene died prior to the comming of the second generation 700-r4, and a first gen is the WORST choice for a tranny. There is a cheap alternative and I will have to consult an old Hot Rod article on the 700/4l60 for more details. What I'm thinking is the entire geartrain from the 4l60-E swaps into the 700-r4 case. From there you can upgrade a few things in the valve body ("e" valve bodies are a whole nother ballgame and have no matching parts with it's big brother, the 700 and 4l60) and get a good overdrive tranny out of it for around $200 more. The tailshaft on the 700, being out of a non-f body, will need to be swapped for one with a torque arm mount. The 4l60-e tail doesn't work in this case, electronic transmissions have no governor provisions, and old school trannys don't function without a governor. You should be able to haggle a deal on a tailshaft at a junkyard or a local tranny shop that hoards old parts.

The only overdrive transmissions available for GM iron block V8 rear drive cars are the 700 r4 and 4l60, so you have no other options. Even if you had an LT1, the ?6L80? six speed is WAY out of price range!!

ok so i need a new tail, and i can maybie sawp the gear houseings of the two transmissions then, if i cant would a trans rebuild help? I have a friend that reabuild transmissions and he does some high quality work with them and always instals shift kits, and i think he ports the valve bodys. would this be a better option besided swaping the gears?

There are at least several parts in the 4l60 that swap over. The 700-r4 sun shell and both planetary gearsets are both common failure items, and both will interchange with the 4l60. A plain stock rebuild isn't going to fix the failure prone hard parts. A shift kit would actually make them break sooner. (still looking for that old mag so I can review the whole deal on 700 upgrades)

By the way, you mentioned cooling fans. If that 305 has a clutch or flex fan, it won't fit. You'll have to go electric on that one. Coversion is easy, requiring only shorter bolts, if that.

after very much though and consideration, ive opted to drop in 3.8. I figure that since the 3.8 is a firebird engine, it will be asyer to get the stuff for. Plus then i wouldnt need engine mounts, sprins, rear end, radiator etc. But the one thing i despreratly need to know is if my ecu for the 3.4 will work with the 3.8. i have actually just bought the 3.8 and a new 4l60E, i plan on droping in the engine trans, and putting in a new rear end gear. Yes i know that my spedo will be off a few mph but i can always get a new one and re calibrate it if i need to. jerry from sutton performance said that a new rear gear will reawaken the beast in the car and make it feel like a diffrent car. So far this is my easyest and cheepest option. Like i said the ecu is my only fear if any one knows if it will work please let me know.

after very much though and consideration, ive opted to drop in 3.8. I figure that since the 3.8 is a firebird engine, it will be asyer to get the stuff for. Plus then i wouldnt need engine mounts, sprins, rear end, radiator etc. But the one thing i despreratly need to know is if my ecu for the 3.4 will work with the 3.8. i have actually just bought the 3.8 and a new 4l60E, i plan on droping in the engine trans, and putting in a new rear end gear. Yes i know that my spedo will be off a few mph but i can always get a new one and re calibrate it if i need to. jerry from sutton performance said that a new rear gear will reawaken the beast in the car and make it feel like a diffrent car. So far this is my easyest and cheepest option. Like i said the ecu is my only fear if any one knows if it will work please let me know.

Will need different k-member no matter what AFAIK. And the ECU will not work.

And drop the carb 5.0 idea completely, you'd be slower.

Found that article... if that 700-r4 was made before 1984 it's got so many issues it's not worth upgrading. But on to new things...

A 3.8 is just as much a pain as a v8 is. FYI, the 3.8 is actually a Chevrolet designed engine that spawned from the old Buick odd-fire v6's. The only Pontiac motor division designed engine that's been built in the last 25 years is the 2.5 L "Iron Duke" in-line 4 cylinder. Backwards from that would be the 400 last used in second gen Trans Ams. I still say sell all this stuff and by an IROC. If you insist on pure Pontiac, (and I can appreciate that, firebirds have a wickedness all theri own) go for a 88-92 Formula and fly (t tops, still cool!). We just had one sell in my area for $2800. It had 70k on it and was freekin immaculate. If the less gas with a v6 thing has got you smitten, buy a 98 or so bird.

BTW, a buddy of mine is selling his 2004 T/A WS6 should that interest you. It's priced similar to a small house - lol.