Ok so I sold my evo8 and am researching my next purchase. Dont get me wrong I loved my evo and felt like it was fairly easy to drive and handled very well, but it just wasnt as confidence inspiring as I would like. Now there is a large possibility that a couple suspension mods could take care of that but Im wondering what my other options are. Whatever I get Im not looking to go super crazy with it just sways, coil overs, and some sticky tires. Given my driving style I am much more comfortable with oversteer so I am leaning towards something rwd. the things I have considered are: s2000,350z,m3, m-coupe,01-02 z06, sti, fd rx7. I plan to do some autox and I dont live very far from thunder hill so my goal is sub 205's at thunder and being able to drive there and back(about 60-70 miles).

GTO with LS2 is your best bet for a cheap powerful RWD car. Doesnt handle so well, but you can improve on it.

maybe I should have said "fast around a track" straight line power isnt as important to me as a well balanced package. To get a gto to run low 2's around thunder would take a crap load of money and Im not sure how easy it would be to push it to do that.

You mentioned it above, but E36 M3s are fairly good with pricing right now, and with the E92 M3s comming out this September, even the E46s have really come down in pricing. Also the M coupes. Handle well, don't need that much to handle even better, and if you go with an E36 M, you can get one for fairly good money, with good cash left over for extra power and handling bits.

350Z and stay N/A if you plan on going AutoX. Basic BPU's and suspension treatments are ideal for it. Or you can go with the SRT-4 ACR package if you can find one. But, I opt for the 350Z.

Solstice GXP or Saturn Sky Redline.
You wanna auto cross thats the car to do it in. They are small, light, powerfull and can be modded up the wazzu.

RWD, Light, and handles crazy? = Any Miata FTW

Since you are looking at used, how about a 2003-04 Cobra. They are extremely quick from the factory and the supercharger gives that thing some serious potential.

I don't think Jason has crossed the $30k mark.

http://forums2.freshalloy.com/showthread.php?t=163184&highlight=j-rho

As you said, you don't want to go crazy, so you don't need everything he has (CCW's with crazy wide Hoosiers, ect). His car makes right under 400whp on a stock internal KA24DE just like mine. I'm just a little more power hungry.

RWD, Light, and handles crazy? = Any Miata FTW

I agree, a first or second gen Miata would be perfect. It has a near 50/50 front to back weight so handling is great. You get one at a pretty good price and then they make a supercharger for them. As light as they are that would make plenty of power to come out of those corners and straight aways.

They even made one with a turbo I'm pretty sure that would be in your price range...

how 'bout a mid-late 90's Acura NSX?

This is easy.

C5 Z06.

I would imagin that the z06 would be the most capable but I was also thinking that it would be fairly hard to drive also.

Everyone will say you should buy whatever car they have. S2000.

This is easy.

C5 Z06.


I like that idea.

I'd hate to say it, but he sold the car that is one of the most capable.

EVO's are no joke...

But I'd say, if you've got the cash, C5 Z06. Just don't complain about the interior... it's a definate step down from the EVO.

^^^me too.

I'd hate to say it, but he sold the car that is one of the most capable.

EVO's are no joke...

But I'd say, if you've got the cash, C5 Z06. Just don't complain about the interior... it's a definate step down from the EVO.


Woo, you ain't kidding about the interior. My buddy just picked up an 02, and the interior is pretty close to my dads cavi. The thing will scoot tho...

Miatas everywhere are getting thier asses handed to them by Solstice and Skys non-turbo.
Gotian went to a recent autox and the guys in the Miatas (who have been owning the course for years) where admitting to getting manhandled by the new base model solstice. Imagine what the GXP with light mods and heavy suspension set up will do!

Evos are my fav cars but he did say "easy" to mod. It takes allot of money, equipment, tunning and parts to mod Evos. They arent exactly plug-and-play.

bro just get an Ariel Atom with the new Ecotec engine. Problem solved.

Miatas everywhere are getting thier asses handed to them by Solstice and Skys non-turbo.
Gotian went to a recent autox and the guys in the Miatas (who have been owning the course for years) where admitting to getting manhandled by the new base model solstice. Imagine what the GXP with light mods and heavy suspension set up will do!

Evos are my fav cars but he did say "easy" to mod. It takes allot of money, equipment, tunning and parts to mod Evos. They arent exactly plug-and-play.

bro just get an Ariel Atom with the new Ecotec engine. Problem solved.

I have heard those Soltices/Skys were supposed to be damn good autox cars. I wonder how well they will stack up to Miatas in the long run. Miatas have a sterling history in autox with huge aftermarket.

ok
1) where is there a z06 for under 30k, all the one's i c are 35+(well good one's neway)
2) the solstice has 2 suspensions, one is stock and the other is an option that is made for racing just like the miata.
3) vr4/stealth tt, 300zx, supra, rx8, rx7, 350z, trans am 93+/z28/ss 93+, sti, srt4, evo(its a good car to start with), v8mustang(the new gt is loaded at 28g), some older vettes, i could find u 2 porsche 911's with awd for 30ish-g, 240sx, boxster s, mini cooper, civic si, 04-06 gto, i'm probably forgetting some but o well.
4) like it looks above, there are lots and lots of options for race worthy cars for under 30g. most cars cost 25-40g these days, so 2-3yr old cars are down to 30g or lower

5) depending on what u like more import or domestic, u could use 30g as a down payment on a nissan gtr for 2008, it would probably dominate nething on a track

I have heard those Soltices/Skys were supposed to be damn good autox cars. I wonder how well they will stack up to Miatas in the long run. Miatas have a sterling history in autox with huge aftermarket.
In the long run they should completely overwhelm the Miatas.
The Ecotec engine on the GXP and Redline is an amazing motor. According to Jay Leno its "the biggest small motor GM has ever made." Leno is the man responsible for getting said motor into the American produced Ariel Atoms.
This motor has ran out past the 200 MPH mark at the nevada flats. It went 227 I believe and its the first 4 cyl to do it on stock internals in history.
The RMR Solstice GXP that Rhys Millen drives at Formula-D is making over 500hp which proves just how tunnable they can be.

Trust me dude, the Solstice and the Sky are sick cars. Miatas are a complete thing of the past.

^^except when they are jacked up prices for them in your area. they both start around 27k(sky), 28k(soliste), and 32k for the turbo sky or solicse gxp, and are hard to find. can you say, PT Crusier?

In the long run they should completely overwhelm the Miatas.
The Ecotec engine on the GXP and Redline is an amazing motor. According to Jay Leno its "the biggest small motor GM has ever made." Leno is the man responsible for getting said motor into the American produced Ariel Atoms.
Stock this motor has ran out past the 200 MPH mark at the nevada flats. It went 227 I believe and its the first 4 cyl to do it on stock internals in history.
The RMR Solstice GXP that Rhys Millen drives at Formula-D is making over 500hp which proves just how tunnable they can be.

Trust me dude, the Solstice and the Sky are sick cars. Miatas are a complete thing of the past.


While I can not agree with you more that the Ecotec is one stout 4 cylinder it is going to take a lot more than just hp numbers and top speed records to compete with the Miata in autox. Mazda has a big loyal fan base and as I have said, Miatas have proven themselves to not only carve through the track but be able to with stand the abuse that is thrown at them. I am not saying it is not possible but I think the Sky/Solstice have their work cut out for them since they have everything to prove.

Get a R32 or R33 Skyline... :icon16:
But wait, there is no way to title the Skylines here in the U.S anymore, is there?

With all seriousness, the Z06 sounds like it'd be your best bet. And like everyone else said, don't pay attention to the interior, just enjoy the ride.
I had an C5 Vette, though true it wasn't a Z06, but the interior is the same in both, and I honestly thought Chevrolet could've done a MUCH better job on the interior design on the C5s...

Each car will have its own advantages and disadvantages. The FD RX7 is a great car, but unreliable. The S2000 handles wonderfully, but is a little short on power and torque. The BMWs are fantastic all around cars, but parts are expensive. Corvettes are very very very fast, but for some reason I've never really liked any of the ones I've driven, I've also heard that they arn't really very great Auto-X cars. And the list goes on...

Really you should just go try out some of these cars and figure out which ones you like.

what does the interior matter, most auto-x driver have no interior in their car when it comes to luxery.
the solstice and sky will prove their worthyness to outpace the miata, the miata is almost 20yrs old, looks the same(except lights and length) has decent power, and upgrades, but it could use some work.
the solstice and sky around here gxp/redline are 27/28g but the wait is over a yr, and for 30g(all said and done) the name SATURN does not allow me to wait a yr for it, maybe a ferarri would.
i wanted to buy a redline last yr during the summer. the dealer told me they were getting 8 2007 models, i had to reserve it now, they would b delivered every other month, so on that pace, since i would get car order #6 i would wait 12months

http://www.florida3s.com/forum/showthread.php?p=70633

F*ck the ecotec.... how about you just marry and LS-1 and a Miata like that guy!! that way you get a light miata body and the power of a vettefor $24,000!!! FTW!!!

http://www.florida3s.com/forum/showthread.php?p=70633

F*ck the ecotec.... how about you just marry and LS-1 and a Miata like that guy!! that way you get a light miata body and the power of a vettefor $24,000!!! FTW!!!

WOW... LS1 in a Miata... Now, you don't happen to see that very often...
All that power, and that little weight... Well, there goes the traction...:icon16:

^^ There was someone (I forget where I saw it) who managed to shove a LS7 into a Fiero.

^^ There was someone (I forget where I saw it) who managed to shove a LS7 into a Fiero.

LOL, I think he needed a little more than a push to make that one happen...
Vaseline anyone? :banghead:

I didn't see that but I did see somebody put an LS2 into a SKY or the pontiac version. It was a very professional job. It had a plastic air box and everything, looked like it came from the factory that way.

Straight from a bunch of miata guys who were at the autocross this past weekend was that "the miatas get their asses kicked by the base model solstice, the only miata thathas the ability to hold its own is the MS Miata and the new MX-5, the ones who's chasis is based off the RX-8. But even then you have to be a reaaly good driver to just hang with an average driver in a solstice"

And there is a downside to dropping an LS1 in a miata and that is that you have to spend thousands of dollars on suspension mods to make up for the lack of traction you just now created if you wanna go autocrossing. With that much power you would tear up the LSD so that is a bad idea for autocrossing, which is why when you go to autocrossing events 99.9999999% of the time the miata motors are basically stock and the suspension is upgraded.

Hijack
BTW I will be posting up about the Autocross shortly, im just at work right now and i dont have the time. Im gonna have pics and info and guess what, Musashi competed too! We have individual results but not overall placement so when that comes up we will get to see how well (or poorly) me and musashi really did.

Also on june 2nd & 3rd im going up for the weekend to compete in another autocross with our friend who has an STi, he join us this weekend as well. So yeah, later tonight you will see the post

/hijack

I didn't see that but I did see somebody put an LS2 into a SKY or the pontiac version. It was a very professional job. It had a plastic air box and everything, looked like it came from the factory that way.


Mallett does a conversion where they put the ls2 into a solstice for 20k.

1/4 12.8 @ 113
0-60 4.4
skidpad 1.02g

Personally I would just buy the gxp and supe it up rather then shelling out 20k for a swap

Actually, there is a local guy to me in Florida that was running MAYBE 1-2 seconds behind CCW/hoosier C5's with a turbocharged miata.

they're making a carbon fiber hardtop available to racers in the sky/solstice.

LOL, I think he needed a little more than a push to make that one happen...
Vaseline anyone? :banghead:

Lol, I am drunk so I am just going to say it, you are extremely giddy aren't you killakam. lol, I'm kind of the same way lolz.

Now personally I dont really care for any of the cars in question. Just not my thing, but Sky/Solstice replacing the Miata? I highly doubt it and its WAY to soon to tell. The Kappa platform is still new so lets wait and see how things shape up overtime. Also you guys make it sound like Mazda is has stopped making Miatas. All this will do if the sky/soul have the same staying power as the Miata has had (which it seems like they could) is make Mazda step up their game. Dont forget Mazda has been been making the Miata for a very long time now and have faced many a foe and are still are going strong. And I dont think they are quite ready to surrender yet either. And no offense but I'll take Keiichi Tsuchiya's opinions of the cars over some local autoxers. And he didnt seem to have a hard time running almost identical times in both cars. The soul did beat the Miata around the track and he DID like the soul very much but the times were very close and each car had their pros and cons he said.


Besides for the price of a new soul or miata you could buy a used Boxster and clean house:bananasmi

~sorry Porsche Nazi since 05~

I am with you D12, I will be highly surprised if the Solstice/Sky takes over the Miata. I just can not see that happening. The future will tell, but I highly doubt it.

im not talking about just local autoXers there is a guy who competes nationally with his miata and he is getting rid of it for a cooper S because the miata isnt "a competative vehicle anymore" I was like WTF? selling a miata for a cooper s? I would rather keep the miata, but then he went into the whole costs of racing and stuff saying the cooper S is a more cost effective car and that it is the best competitive car and crap like that, then he went on to say that the miata is too outdated and that even he new ones are still outdated.

Besides for the price of a new soul or miata you could buy a used Boxster and clean house:bananasmi

~sorry Porsche Nazi since 05~


Minus the fact that Boxters aren't that great to begin with... not for the price anyways. Pay too much for the Porsche name, and for half the Porsche performance.:2cents:

ok just to let u know wat ur getting when u pay 45g for a porsche boxster. 250hp, and 240ish tq. mid engine rwd, with a great suspension
this is wat u get from a redline/gxp at 30ish-g 260hp/260tq, a car that has been proven to b quicker in 0-60, quater, and around some tracks than the previously mentioned boxster.
of course u can up the porsche to the S, but then still u only get 295hp and 290tq. o and that costs around 15g more. so lets make this brief shall we:
15g equates to a big amount of mods to a redline/gxp plus then the starting price difference.
like u said u pay 50%name 50%performance with all porsches(72g for 325hp out of a base 911) my stealth can keep up
mazda is going to have to step up its game, i dont even like the design of it, it's nice but to roundish(kinda girly) the sky(i love em) is boxy, edgy, manly, it simply says get the hell out of my way, or i'll move u myself
o and for those that think i hate porsches, trust me i love em with 90% of my heart(other 10 is my stealth) porsche knows wat it's doing, but 45g for a base car is lil much for me, not for only 250hp, i'll go spend 33g and get 300 out of a 350z

Minus the fact that Boxters aren't that great to begin with... not for the price anyways. Pay too much for the Porsche name, and for half the Porsche performance.:2cents:


Oh dont be a hater the Boxster is Porsche through and through and in some ways a better Porsche (MR). And now that you can get them for well under 20 they are definitely worth looking at. Its only half the performance because Porsche held it back like they do all their good designs so it dosnt surpass the 911 example 914, 951, 968, Boxster, Cayman. But thats way we have aftermarket right?

But yes its not the best bang for the buck but hey it wouldnt be a porsche if it was:lol:

Fuck...you guys are all going down the wrong path...



C...R....X....B18C1......bolt-ons....suspension mods....pocket 15+K. Fuckin amateurs....that simple.

is there a way to tell him without getting banned that a civic is a suk ass car, and should not have even been mentioned(a civic and crx are basically the same thing) the Si is the only respectable thing Honda has ever done with it.
neways, i hear what ur saying bout the 986/987 that they r going down in value very quickly. wait 1 or 2yrs and a 96 and 97 will b like 15g. in 5yrs. they'll b some highskoolers first car(an average income highskooler).
i think the best porsche for auto-x would b a 951 or 924S only cause they have decent power, a lot of things u can upgrade, and they r quick(much more so than a civic of the same yr)
i just thought about it to, ucould get a ferrari 308gtsi, they are under 30g, most go for 20-25g. 200hp the name and probably a very good suspension.
pontiac feiro wouldnt b the worst of idea's either. a gt had over 200hp i believe, and the stock gearbox is capable of holding the tq and power of a new vette engine. plus u can pick up 5 of em for less than 20g in decent condition(5 if u went into racing seriously and needed parts)

is there a way to tell him without getting banned that a civic is a suk ass car, and should not have even been mentioned(a civic and crx are basically the same thing) the Si is the only respectable thing Honda has ever done with it.


I've been on here for nearly 4 years now...and every year I manage to always get the one kid that doesn't catch on to my sarcasm...:disappoin

And to answer your question, there is no way of telling him that a Civic is a suck ass car. Saying the SI is the only respectable thing Honda has done with it is kind of ignorant (not knocking on you)...did you forget the Type R? Not much more different, other than RHD, a bump in HP, interior upgrade with Recaro seats I believe, and a few other cosmetic details. But no much more different. Then there is the slew of aftermarket. 1000's of swaps and combo's to fulfil your needs for whatever type of racing you plan to do. So no, there really isn't a way to say a Civic is a suck ass car. Basically just a budget mans race car. Same pretty much goes for the CRX...plus the bonus that it's about 300lbs, if not more, lighter than a Civic.

I've been on here for nearly 4 years now...and every year I manage to always get the one kid that doesn't catch on to my sarcasm...:disappoin

It's only roughly about 3 years Civ (Unless you've been here under a different name, or didn't sign up 'till later on - then I appologize) :icon16:
Sorry, didn't mean to burst your bubble... Just don't ban me, lol... :grinno:

key word....nearly :lol:

ok well the type r isnt made i dont think at this point. u can still go out and buy a brand new Si. tho i did see the concept for the new type r 3dr/hatch(whatever u prefer to call it)
and dont u think the crx, tho light, would b a little bit of an aero disadvantage and on top of that a little old on the tech tree. it might weigh less, but i'd rather have a newer suspension than have to pay for a better one on an older car

is there a way to tell him without getting banned that a civic is a suk ass car, and should not have even been mentioned(a civic and crx are basically the same thing) the Si is the only respectable thing Honda has ever done with it.


I raced a 97 Civic with a turbocharged Y8 engine and a good tune, the son of a bitch hung with me from every starting roll, even when we went from a dead stop he was never far behind. Dont underestimate those little hondas.


I'm going biased on this and saying my car, this thing might not handle as good as some of the newer ones, but i can take 90 degree turns at 45 mph with out braking and the thing feels like it wants to go faster. STi's have a little understeer but it's still a great out of the box car for anything.

It's only roughly about 3 years Civ (Unless you've been here under a different name, or didn't sign up 'till later on - then I appologize) :icon16:
Sorry, didn't mean to burst your bubble... Just don't ban me, lol... :grinno:

You know what...I think I signed a few checks for the year 2008....oh fuck...

Guess I'm a year ahead of myself.


:lol:

i'm not saying honda's are worthless cars, but they rnt the greatest cars for continuous racing. they rnt the best out of the box cars u can get 4 30g or less. are they good, i guess, they're still used for racing in the scca.
tte sti's are very good cars out of the box, but u also gotta look at what they're based on...rally cars. the biggest advantage they have over anything including an evo, is awd matched with a 6spd and not a 5spd. that and technology has come very far in the last 5yrs for awd cars, that they can weigh just as little as a car of the same power without awd. i think a z weighs 3250 and an sti weighs 3375 or something like that

C5 Z06, preferrably a 2002 model, as it has better algorithms for the traction control system. You'll absolutely love it's handling. You probably won't have to mod it that much either.

You know what...I think I signed a few checks for the year 2008....oh fuck...

Guess I'm a year ahead of myself.


:lol:

Hehe, it's all good.

Hey Civ, how's that deal on the R32 coming through? Any updates?
I'm dying to find out what's going to happen! :banghead:

Hehe, it's all good.

Hey Civ, how's that deal on the R32 coming through? Any updates?
I'm dying to find out what's going to happen! :banghead:

PMing you, let's try not to hijack this thread?:)

lol this thread got hijacked two pages ago.

lol this thread got hijacked two pages ago.

ok as long as i'm not the only one who noticed

neways, i thought we already said a vette is not the best thing for auto-x type racing. parts are too much

i) the new civis type r has been on sale for quite a while now.
ii) don't the two previous generations of civic type r count?
iii) vette is not best for auto-x because of cost of parts? So parts for a ferrari 308 are cheaper?

i think the original poster wanted new car's neways.
i didnt relize that the type r was on sale in the usa already, my bad
as for iii, yea i see ur point, but there are many other cars that handle just as well as a vette and cost a bit less. the vette is not the greatest car in the world, sure it's "cheap" in comparison to a porsche turbo or a ferarri 430 or lambo, but it's still got classic signs that it's more american muscle than euro exotic(other than it's a corvette).

i think the original poster wanted new car's neways.
i didnt relize that the type r was on sale in the usa already, my bad
as for iii, yea i see ur point, but there are many other cars that handle just as well as a vette and cost a bit less. the vette is not the greatest car in the world, sure it's "cheap" in comparison to a porsche turbo or a ferarri 430 or lambo, but it's still got classic signs that it's more american muscle than euro exotic(other than it's a corvette).


Right up untill you get to the C6 Z06... but that's slightly out of the 30k price range.:wink:

Right up untill you get to the C6 Z06... but that's slightly out of the 30k price range.:wink:

Yea, slightly
:icon16:

mustang gt......

mustang gt......

You must be kidding...
No way :screwy:

It's under 30k by a good amount, and with the left overs you could make it pretty nice.

I saw a Mustang GT in the paper today, brand new, was going for about 23k... that's not bad for 300hp and rear drive.

It's under 30k by a good amount, and with the left overs you could make it pretty nice.

I saw a Mustang GT in the paper today, brand new, was going for about 23k... that's not bad for 300hp and rear drive.

Yea, it must be the envy I got for all Fords... :disappoin

slightly, a guy down the road just bought a brang new zo6 it was 80g, a lil more than the 70g that's advertised

He over paid, if you let the dealership mark it up then you get screwed.

They shouldn't go for more than what they sticker at now days, the rush to get them when they first came out has passed.

Just have to shop around.

not exactly new but if you could find a 1st or 2nd gen viper for 25 or30 it might work

Pontiac Solstice with a LS7. Actually that would probably be a little bit more than $30k but there is a guy in town who brought one to the a car show this week. It was so well done, the LS7 actually looked like it came stock inside it......A+ work to say the least.

HotRod did that when the Solstice came out, and they said it cost more to do the LS7 Swap into the Solstice with all the super trick parts than it would to buy a Z06. Not to mention the Z06 still handled better.

There's a limit to the amount of useable power that can be used in such small cars.

the 1st gen vipers, arent ment to go thru turns, they r ment to go striaght and thats it

^^Wrong agian.

the 1st gen vipers, arent ment to go thru turns, they r ment to go striaght and thats it


:lol:

Yeah, okay.

ok difference between a vette and a viper, a vette is designed now more than ever for twists and turns so that it not only apeals to americans as an "american dream" but also to europeans as a good car for racing around the circuts that they have over there.
the new vipers are ment to go more around turns than they have been in previous years, but if u remember the first gen didnt go racing, not untill 96 wen the gts was produced did they go racing, and that was the second generation. the viper was introduced as one thing of many, but mostly to offer something to the american public from an american company other than the corvette, as a top spec go against porsche, ferrari, and lambo.
in the early 90's there was no esperante, no sky, no soltice, nothing but the viper and the vette, hence the reason for them always being against each other in magazine comparisons.
do i believe that the viper can make turns, yes, it's proved it with the gts-r, but out on the street my bet would b that a stock vette can make corners than a stock viper, for the 92-95 model years.
i love the viper i would not bash it in any way, but like every car it has a flaw, and wen a car makes that much tq and power as they did back then(wen the vette had all of 220hp base and 375hp for zr1). and i relize that the viper is a good track car, but lets c here, didnt he also say that he wanted to drive it from track to house and house to track. if so then i think a sky or something cheap to begin with would b the better bet
i hate acura/honda, but i will say the rsx-s is a very good thought, 201hp, very light, aftermarket galore for racing, cheaper parts than the viper or vette. and to make a rsx-s even better(tho used) would still b under 30g in copmarison to getting a brand new car, voiding ne warrenty on it, and uping the suspension/power to get a good track car.
plus the rsx can still b used on the rd

Anyone that "hates" a certain car probably didn't put it together correctly.

And as a car enthusiast, if you buy a car and leave it stock, you are not an enthusiast. You are a hobbyist. Performance cars are designed to be a platform for you to build on, therefore, any one car is designed to be run in whatever condition you build it to be run in.

I leave comparing cars, stock to stock, to car and driver so all the people who don't have the know-how to modify cars can simply pick apart the flaws of stock automobiles rather than improving them.

You should really search on a certain individual who goes by "Torquenstein," and his adventures in a Viper.

& plz st"R"t t"I"png rite so wi can stand/X u, kthXbye!!11 :rolleyes:

And as a car enthusiast, if you buy a car and leave it stock, you are not an enthusiast. You are a hobbyist. Performance cars are designed to be a platform for you to build on, therefore, any one car is designed to be run in whatever condition you build it to be run in.

So, say I buy an Enzo, and I leave it stock, I'm not an enthusiast? Or what if I take a classic muscle car, and want to return it to a state to exactly as it was when it left the factory (stock), then I'm not an enthusiast? This is like that argument that if you go for an SMG/DSG/Semi Auto gear box, you aren't a true car guy. Its bull shit. If thats the argument, then I say if your car doesn't have a choke and has any form of convience/comfort/non racing part on it at all, then you aren't a true enthusiast.

i like cars, i'm an enthusiast, a hobbyist is just someone who take's care of their car, does oil, washes it and waxes it.
a person who buys a car other than a sport car is more likley to b a person who just needs a car to get from a to b, not an enthusiast and not a hobbiest, just a normal everyday driver.
i bought a dodge neon for my first car, i was excited and washed it every wk, but left everything on it stock, does that mean i'm just a person who owns a car, no it just that i relize with only having 21k on it, i'm going to resell it, and by modding it, ur taking away from the possible buyers market, no 80yr old trying to go to church on sunday is going to want it, only the 18-25yr old that wants to come up to a stop lite and race that vette sitting next to him/her(that's right girls race just as much as guys, and get away with it too)
o and no i'm not going to change how i type so u can read it better, use phonics u'll figure it out, or have u forgotten the basics of reading

learn to spell properly please; it makes you look less of an idiot.

besides, all of your definitions are wrong.
Freddie Hunt, son of James Hunt drives a Daewoo Matiz.
It's not a sports car by anyone's definition but he is more of a car+driving enthusiast than any of you.
The thing that defines what you are is your passion for cars and for driving and the related.

So he became such an enthusiast by only ever owning that car?

.....

Yea, because if you never switch to better tires to improve your driving abilities, or switch to a better flowing air filter, or adjust the car to support your driving style, then you probably aren't using the Enzo to pursue your interest in cars or driving. Same applies for the muscle car. You bought/built a show car. Being able to drive what you own and being able to improve on is part of being a car enthusiast. Pursuing improvement in driving/performance of the machine and yourself.

as far as i know, freddie hunt who is only 19 has only ever owned the matiz.
he does race a lot though.
The point is, he hasn't done a single thing to that car but i'm pretty sure there aren't many people who can drive one like he does.
You mention modifiying a car to get the best out of it.
My point is, how about taking any car, be it a shopping car or a super car and getting the best out of it unmolested?

Extreme example time:
guy 1 who buys an integra type-r but can't drive for shit. Buys a shitload of mods that make it potentially super race car and because it has more power he wins most races by out powering them
guy 2 has a bog standard IT-R but races it regularly and knows it like the back of his hand.
Who is the enthusiast or whatever you want to label them?

So he became such an enthusiast by only ever owning that car?

.....

Yea, because if you never switch to better tires to improve your driving abilities, or switch to a better flowing air filter, or adjust the car to support your driving style, then you probably aren't using the Enzo to pursue your interest in cars or driving. Same applies for the muscle car. You bought/built a show car. Being able to drive what you own and being able to improve on is part of being a car enthusiast. Pursuing improvement in driving/performance of the machine and yourself.

99.9% of all vehicle improvment comes from the driver, not what ever turbo kit you decided to buy, or the tires you use. An enthusisast is someone who gets excited over cars, who has a passion for them in a form that is appealing to them. It doesn't make them a non enthusiast, it makes them an enthusiast in a different field. But hey, next time you run into Schumacher or one of those guys lucky enough to lay claim to an FXX, tell them they aren't really enthusiasts because they didn't modify it :rolleyes:

Oh, and verctorspecialist...hooked on fonix wurked fore mi!
Type like a normal human being, you look like a fucking retard.

Yea.. If you drive a car at the limit, parts break. You are left no option but to upgrade them if you don't want them to break again.

I guess if you intend on keeping a car stock the entire time you own it and bragging about how quick you can make it go, then you are more of a driving enthusiast than a car enthusiast. Either way, you are going to lose to people that have shittier driving abilities than you, and I don't know many people that care to do that. At the end of the day, you are comparing your abilities in your car to somebody else's vehicular package, run what you brung. What you drive and how you drive both make you the car enthusiast you are.

ok... I guess it is pretty fair to say that I am a driving enthusiast as much of my driving when it's quiet at night is about how many secondss I can shave off a drive home or how fast i can take a particular corner on my journey.

On the other hand I love cars as complete/finished objects.
To me, there is something amazing about how a lotus elise is put together just as there is something strangely fun about how a Yaris seems to be lean so much onto it's springs and not topple over just as there is something amazing how you can just keep going higher and higher in an S2000 just as there is something that makes me smile in how you feel a TVR cerbera is nearby before you see it.
In my mind, there is something almost sacraligious in changing something in certain cars.
On the other hand, I can also see that there is something about knowing your car so well that you know exactly what needs to be done to make it better.

If I had the money, time and skill, I'd have two of every car I like:
one for keeping absolutely stock and the the other for making as good as I can (without turning it into something else entirely)

I'll agree to that.

But I would put money that after you owned any car long enough, you can think of at least one thing that you will, or be forced to change from stock.

Cars are just tools for transportation. You should make the tool work for you and change/adjust it as necessary for the job.

o didnt know u guys were english teachers, i thought this was the internet, somewhere i can type however the hell i want to without being told how to.
as for enthusiast, i'm a driving one, i enjoy the feel of the car and sound of the engine and the gear changes as i go around turns on the back roads, or cruise at 80mph on the highway.
for me a car is wat it is, a supercar(enzo or wat have u) is more for people that like the car and the idea of everyone turning their heads and looking, the small dicked people of this world

My RX-8 is completely stock, but i dont think of myself as just a normal person with the car, I've been in love with the car since it came out and I've spent alot of time researching the car to know as much as possible about it. Took me a few years but I finally bought it last year and now I'm autocrossing it, so I would consider myself an enthusiast about cars/ driving.

o didnt know u guys were english teachers, i thought this was the internet, somewhere i can type however the hell i want to without being told how to.

This is a public forum owned by an individual.
As such, there are rules which are in turn enforced by certain members of the forum. I would've thought that you, someone who hs been warned 3 times previously regarding your posting methods, would've understood this by know.

This is a public forum owned by an individual.
As such, there are rules which are in turn enforced by certain members of the forum. I would've thought that you, someone who hs been warned 3 times previously regarding your posting methods, would've understood this by know.

Taken from the AF Guidelines:

POSTING EDIQUETTE:
AutomotiveForums.com is a professional community where members expect to read posts with correct grammar and practical sentence structure. Any posts in all caps, and or funny mixed case such as "hey can u c thiz? L8r!" will not be tolerated. The same goes for language. AF is an English language based site. All discussions should be conducted in English. If you cannot post clearly, coherently, and in English, you will be given notice to do so. If you ignore this notice and continue to post incoherently, your posting rights will be removed.

Sorry vector. It's not like some of the fellow Moderators are trying to harrass you or keep you from being yourself, but these are the rules provided by the owner of this very site. Like most members, I'm sure you may have skimmed or even skipped these guidelines, but please, for your stay here at AF just take a moment to read over them.

We're only here to enforce the rules. Not to be dicks to the guys that don't pay attention to them. With that said, carry on. And please, just clean up your posts and make them more readable for our "less intelligent" members :biggrin:.

Can you find a used Lotus Elise for under 30k?

... make them more readable for our "less intelligent" members :biggrin:.
was that personal?:lol:
And i like Josh's idea! A Lotus would be great around corners and you might find a used one for 30 if your lucky.Throw a turbo or super charger on there and, BOOM! you got plenty of power!

an elise would have to b an older on, and i think he lives in CA, which means that prices would b higher out htere than say some other parts of the country
is that good for all of you?

In the UK, S1 Elise' are starting to hit the £12,000 mark for decent enough quality 2nd hand cars. Even S2 cars are starting to see £15-18,000 depending on milage.
For that £18,000, you can even get yourself a limited edition car like a 135 or 111S. Also, quite a few S1 cars had the 135 package retrofitted so even if it's not "official" (lotus fitted it themselves) you'll still get the newer dampers and brakes that weren't available when the car was new.

K series engine parts aren't even a problem anymore.