I have been very impressed by the advancements in the sport compact car world, where the bar is being pushed forever higher in tiny four-cylindered cars, as they are continuously lightened and pushed for more power. There are now Hondas on the verge of pushing into the eight-second range in the quarter mile.

Some of those most notable are Stephen Papadakis and Ed Bergenholtz, who are chasing the fastest four-cylindered car in the world, Sakura. This car is capable of quarter mile times in the range of 7.6 to 7.7 seconds.

These cars have their work cut out for them to catch up with the best of the Top Fuel circuit drag racing, but with time, and technology, we may see four cylinders running with the fastest V8's.

Actually I believe Stephan Papadakis is already in the 8's. :)

----------
Anthony
88 RX-7 GXL 85 RX-7 GS

Edited by: DropGXL

I'm gettin so sick of people talking about the "Import Scene" who gives a flying fuck.
Maybe some of the little rice burners are in the 8's, but how many of them are street legal? There are THOUSANDS of Camaros and Mustangs runnin around the country with low 8 second E.T's I myself am gettin there (9.89 @ 142) And it takes twice the money to get a fuggin rice burner into the 8's as it does a domestic. In conclusion...F.U.C.K Rice!

----------
For my Message Board Click Here (http://pub42.ezboard.com/bthemustangmessageboards)

oh, dude.... you just started a potentially huge flame... watch em come now. :D

He may get flamed, but Dark Horse is right. There are...and have been for a long time...V8's out there that run sub-2-second 0-60s on the street. Civics are not sports cars and there are a lot of people out there that think they are. They are Econoboxes, not powerhouses.

It just seems silly to me. It's like trying to turn Pearl Jam into Bach. I guess I just don't understand it.

And, I think the Leblanc Caroline is the fastest 4banger to date.

----------
"Ferrari isn't a car, it's a lifestyle"
-Enzo Ferrari.

Run what you have, thats what its all about, Although i own only v8's i hang around alot of import drivers, and i prefer the import "scene" to hanging around with narrow minded people because the imports are still evolving, there are still things to do, the hot rod of yesterday, while still on top in my book, are just that, hot rods of yesterday, and are no longer in front of the car community, because nothing new is happening to them, not many new things can be done that werent done 25 years ago. While the imports are still in there infancy, and there is just somthing about doing what your not supposed to. Most people think its a waste of time, but doing somthing new is much more rewarding that building another 350 and putting it in a nova.

----------
67 GTO & 79 Z28

Z28 RACER
i couldnt agree with you more! i cant stand morons that categorize every import car as "rice". the only time the term ever applies is to a civic with 50 stickers and 18 wheels and 5" tip that claims to have run 12s. but, then again most die-hard chevy or ford guys are so ignorant about the power potential of "ricers" that its fun taking their money. walk up to any guy with a big v8 and ask to run em in your puny lil 4 cylinder and its like taking candy from a baby. granted, this doesnt apply to every camaro/firebird/mustang out there cuz they can be made damn fast cars (like anything else) but ive educated my fair share. just my 2 cents,
jeff

----------
95 vr4 93 mr2 turbo 91 laser turbo

One of the reasons i try to learn about them is that we have to know our enemys :), gotta know what to look for when someone like that comes up to me so i dont get my ass handed to me.

----------
67 GTO & 79 Z28

hehe. :D
I'm just curious,
has anybody ever raced Skyline GT-R?
Try to find Joseph if you do, he owns one and he lives in the NYC. If you do tell him that "Igor said hi".

----------
I've seen the future, and all I can say is go back....

Well, I more or less don't have to worry about gettin beat by a little ricer, How many 9 Second 4-Bangers are driven on the street?.....none around my hunting ground :D In my book any jap. 4 banger is rice don't like the way i think? Well...I don't give a shit....Blow Me
-The Anti rice

----------
For my Message Board Click Here (http://pub42.ezboard.com/bthemustangmessageboards)

nice mature comeback. how many 9 second cars are driven on the street period? and i do mean legally. slicks, open exhaust, wheelie bars and parachutes dont count. oh, and ever here of a supra? theres quite a few daily drivers out there that will piss all over your cheerios. what kind of car do you have again? my vr4 will easily be in the 11s with a full leather interior, a/c, incredible stereo, power everthing, and look damn good all at the same time. want to run on the highway? didnt think so. want to autocross? didnt think so. want to ask 100 women (or in your case men) which theyd rather go out in? didnt think so. yeah, you got a real nice car though. is it even a stick--cuz driving the 1/4 straight is pretty challanging--wouldnt want to have to shift too. i would stick with your domestic pos anyway, cuz if you ever bought an import youd have all that time you used to spend working on your car everyday to actually do something. woudnt want that.
jeff

----------
95 vr4 93 mr2 turbo 91 laser turbo

I'm talking about my 98 Mustang GT...Full interior, 3 MTX 12" woofers in the back..power everything. The car weighs 3600+
And has a best E.T of 9.896 @ 142.1, And it has a Tremec 6 spd manual, and it doesn't have wheelie bars or a chute. It'll be in the low 9's this spring...when I get my new Blower. And the only probalem I've had out of it was a blown gasket when i ran too much boost without enough intercooler. And how much does your ar weigh?....thats the reason you can get into the 11's easily.

Edited by: Dark Horse

Oh yeah, I don't do that gay shit either...And if it's luxury the lady wants I'll pick her up in my Navigator. Not fast, but plenty of room in the back...

----------
For my Message Board Click Here (http://pub42.ezboard.com/bthemustangmessageboards)

DARKHORSE,
very nice time (especially trap speed) and sounds like a nice car. im by no means a mustang fan but im more than willing to give credit where credit is due. and a question, youre saying you made that pass with a 3 sub soundsystem? between the subs/box/amps and misc wiring it sure isnt doing your 1/4 times any benefit. my car isnt a 1/4 mile car so i have mine for cruise/show purposes. i (unlike you) am open-minded enough to appreciate any type of car done right regardless of brand or where it was made. now, that being said, a high 9 second car on the track isnt the same as on the street. when i said 11s i meant 11s rolling out of the driveway without spray. you obviously had slicks, more than likely a big shot of NOS, rollcage, very high gearing, and race gas for that pass. ill race you any day of the week with no NOS (or ill run with it too), full exhaust, street tires, and pump gas. track times are nice to wave around but rarely reflect what a car will run on the street. i have no problem saying youd kick my ass at the track cuz my car isnt a 1/4 mile car. but at the same time i have no problem saying youd never catch me on a highway run and never ever catch me on a roadcourse. two out of three aint bad. and the particular "ricer" in question is just a lil 3.0 6 cylinder (bored to 3.1) that tips the scales at just over 3700lbs. of course the two upgraded turbos, upgraded intercoolers/pipes, boost controller, custom ecu, full 3" ss exhaust, upgraded fuel system with twin pumps and lines, alcohol injection, nos, je pistons, crower rods, weber cams, slotted rotors/race pads/ss lines, 18" wheels/tires, and a nice shot of NOS doesnt hurt either. nor does around 23lbs of boost.
jeff

----------
95 vr4 93 mr2 turbo 91 laser turbo

oh, and you wouldnt need a navigator to pick up chicks if you bought a vr4. with a $49k base price in 98 its more $$ than a vette and more exclusive as well. with a mustang you might cruise the trailer parks or being its a gt maybe some highschool chicks if they can figure out which one is yours in the school parking lot. had to say it.....
jeff

----------
95 vr4 93 mr2 turbo 91 laser turbo

lol, that was good mr2turb!!

but i like the challenge of having a regular everyday grocery getter and making it faster, handle better and look better

anybody can go pick up a GT and soup it up as it is a sports car made for performance right out of the factory.
and mr2turbo was right there are tons of them everywhere driven my high school girls mainly in my town and GTs are rare they all drive v6's that are 3.8L gas guzzlers that i can take out stock in my accord v6 stock
and the mustangs are super cheap in constructon and materials, even the air scoops are fake even in the GT's which is just pathetic, and there to attract the young high school girl buyers to a "cute"
car.


and tell me what kind of gas mileage do you get in that 9 second beast of yours

civics being a 4 cyl and with all those mods still get better gas mileage

if u dont like the import scene just turn around and forget about it.
u dont have to bitch about it like a lil girl to us so that we'll change our minds about it

----------
00 Honda Accord coupe EX V6 SS
aem cai, WW 3-piece midwing, clears

yep, id have to say that the #1 reason im an import guy--exclusivity. on any given drive to/from work i cant even count the number of mustangs/camaros/firebirds i see with prob about a 60/40 split on v8 vs v6 versions and most driven by "highschool aged kids". to me its not a sports car if you see 50 just like it on a daily basis. i respect the LT1/LS1 cars and newer gt/cobras as race cars just because they can be made fast but not as true sports cars because there are just too many. how often do you see a vr4 or mr2 (turbo or non) or a supra turbo or a 3rd gen rx7 or 300zx turbo or an nsx? almost never. thats why they attract so much attention. i dont know how many people have come up to me and asked if my mr2 was some kind of ferrari or lotus--cuz you dont see em everyday!!(see for yourself under the "mr2" category of the toyota group in this forum). speed is a whole other issue. just like every other car on the planet, all of the above cars can be made to run incredibly fast but thats not the point. its all about the persona they have. and not to mention its the only way to get that without shelling out over $70k on a viper or ferrari or lambo or true exotic car. and when comparing any of the above mentioned "ricers" to the mustang/camaro/firebird trio stock vs stock its embarrassing. not even in the same ballpark. motor trend got the 97 mustang gt to run the 1/4 in 15.1 @ 92.8 mph!! now thats impressive!! just goes to show you can make anything fast if you spend enough money. hell, guys already have the new celicas running low 14s with n/a "4 bangers". and my laser with its mighty 2.0 ran a best of 12.8 @ 107.2 this year. more than enough to beat 99% of domestic "sports car" owners out there. oh, and while were on the topic, does someone that hates all "4-banger ricers" consider a plymouth laser a ricer? and if so is the prowler too? just curious.
jeff

----------
95 vr4 93 mr2 turbo 91 laser turbo

I normally dont comment a whole lot on ricer topics considering my own personal ideas about that whole deal...But mr2turb, that whole thing about exclusitivity on your last post, I personally gagged. I totally understood what you meant about the 3000GT, NSX deal...Our 3s's are exclusive, but when he means ricers, he means the civics and accords and integras, not the already nice cars. I see at least 10-20 of those kind of 'ricers' everyday, with at least the clear light kits, wings, exhaust, etc. Ive only seen 1 Camaro SS, 2 Firebird WS6 or whatever theyre number is (I always forget), and 1 Mustang Cobra. Now, I do see some more regular american type muscle cars, but rarely do I see one of the base models of them 'riced' out. Well, I better stop or Ill keep going, lol

----------
Mike
1991 Black Dodge Stealth R/T TT

well, he did say "any" jap 4-banger--and if his views apply to 4 cylinder cars whats the difference with sixes? i agree (as i said earlier) about the term "ricer" applying to civics or integras with 50 stickers and a huge tip and 18" wheels and the owner thinking its the fastest thing on the road. did i mention such cars as being exclusive? civics are like the #1 selling car in the country for crying out loud!! not to mention the large number or accords, camrys, corollas, yada yada. i said import guy in the performance sense not the "every car the comapanies make sense". im sure there arent too many die hard mustang guys running around trying to support the taurus, tempo, and windstar!! my comparison was strictly the cars i mentioned (3000gt, supra, 300zx, rx7, mr2, and nsx) vs the mustang/firebird/camaro trio. i dont see how there is an arguement there. sales numbers dont lie boys. even import guys use the term "rice" to describe certain cars but not EVERY jap 4/6 cylinder!! hes basing his opinion on country of origin not each car on an individual basis. and as for the ws6 (ram-air) and ss camaro--youre looking for the top model in each cars lineup. ill be the first to say i love the ws6's front end and the LS1 in both cars, but around here i see just as many ss cars as i do z28s. and for the power diff vs price diff thats what id buy if i was a chevy fan. ok, hope i cleared that up. dont want this to continue on about which you see more often the maxima or the lumina. WHO CARES!!!!!!!
jeff

----------
95 vr4 93 mr2 turbo 91 laser turbo

oh, and what term then applies to the hundreds of 6 cylinder stangs running around with saleen stickers and wings and ground effects on them? or did saleen start building "performance versions" all of the sudden. PLEASE!!!! its 100% about the owner not the car or where it was built.
jeff

----------
95 vr4 93 mr2 turbo 91 laser turbo

for more info visit riceboy.com

and learn what the real meaning of "rice" is

----------
00 Honda Accord coupe EX V6 SS
aem cai, WW 3-piece midwing, clears

Yes, I do run slicks at the track, but I don't use spray...I have a Blower pushing 14lbs of boost,and a 12 point roll cage,as for gas mileage...around 15-18 MPG. And i have run the car on just motor (4.6L 281 cid DOHC) and it hit a 10.60 @ ? (can't remember the trap)

----------
For my Message Board Click Here (http://pub42.ezboard.com/bthemustangmessageboards)

I get disgusted when I see "fake saleens" as when I see a riced out Civic with fony "Type R" Badges

----------
For my Message Board Click Here (http://pub42.ezboard.com/bthemustangmessageboards)

finally we agree on something
jeff

----------
95 vr4 93 mr2 turbo 91 laser turbo

DARKHORSE,
where you from anyway? if not too far id like to run you sometime--100% street trim of course.
jeff

----------
95 vr4 93 mr2 turbo 91 laser turbo

If you want to race, bring it to Brandenton, Fl at the DeSoto Memorial Dragstrip.
I'll give you a set of slicks or we can run em in stock trim...don't matter to me.

Sometime this Spring.

----------
For my Message Board Click Here (http://pub42.ezboard.com/bthemustangmessageboards)

ive got a few questions. i just picked up a 92 prelude Si with the 2.3 litre non vtec. ibasiclly got to build into a 1/4 mile car/street car. my questions are will the 2.2vtec head off a a late 90's prelude fit and run on the 2.3? ive heard they do. is there anyone on this forum that has done this please let me know how it does. question 2 What is a good turbo kit that will work on these motor? im lookin to run about 18 to 20 psi+nitrous!! and my final question is will the type SH transmissions off the late 90's preludes bolt up to the 2.3 litre engines? if any of you guys have any info it would be much appreciated

if ur gonna build it into a racer i would go with a whole new engine like the h22a since there is unlimited aftermarket support for it

----------
00 Honda Accord coupe EX V6 SS
aem cai, WW 3-piece midwing, clears

I would go with VTEC V6's suggestion, which is to try and get yourself an H22A. Doesn't even need to be new, a used one should be fine (like a wreck salvo or something). And with this engine, I would go with an F Max turbo (I know more about superchargers than turbos, but I have heard that Rev Hard turbos are the choice turbos for all B series engines, and F Max for F and H series engines).

Edited by: JD@af

thanks for the info.
the big thing here in kc area from what ive seen has been to build those 1.8 and 1.5 litre motors. my buddy has a 1.5 litre honda civic hatchback, nothing fancy body wise, it will just run a high a high 12 in the quarter. will the h22a v6 fit in the early 90's lude's. and ive been checkin around for a price on a used one, i cant seem to get a straight answer. if any body knows of a good website were i can find prices on these motors can they post it? thanks

You can swap an H22A into your 1992 Prelude with the aid of a kit, which you can get from HASport, Place Racing, or HCP.

I've read in Turbo that Stephen Papadakis's Civic is now posting about 8.70 in the quarter. I wonder if he'll be able to catch Sakura (the fastest 4-cylindered car in the world, posting around a 7.65 best ET).

A car being frequently seen doesn't make it not a sportscar. Even if every car on the road was identical, they could still be sportscars if they fit the definition.

Which BTW, none of the cars mentioned fit. Mustangs, Camaros, NSX, MR2, etc None of those are true sportscars by definition.

And about gas milage. I really doubt if these 8 second 4 bangers get better milage than a V8. As soon as you have high revs and boost your gas milage is going out the window. Look at an S2000 compared to an LS1.

All right, I don't really care what definition you are using. A definition that does not acknowledge an NSX as a sports car is bullshit. I suppose there are a couple Ferraris that don't qualify as sports cars by this definition either?

And as for the gas mileage, true, running all out on a highway, you may very well be right that a blown four cylinder may be sucking down as much or even more than a V8. But I challenge any V8 to turn in the kind of gas mileage figures in around town driving that a blown four car turn in. This to me is the beauty of this kind of engine. It is still functional and fairly spritely with gas around town, stop light to stop light. It has little torque down low, true, but it can be a convenience for gas mileage sake in that it can still cruise using little juice and power better than just about ANY V8.

Hey guys!!!!!

Is a 260Z Hybrid with a rb26DETT in it a ricer? I dont think so but it is an import....the motor is stock except engine management and intercooler. running stock booste, DOT drag radials, and 3.90 rear end gears. went thru the traps at 120 mph @ 7500 rpm in 3rd gear !!!! 11.1 E/T

lets see,,, throw some cash at it and bam its in the low 9s with full exhaust, interior.

Like someone said before as long as its done right its fine by me but the little HS kids that put mufflers on there cars too make them fast and tear up the streets giving everybody a bad name really should just go home and play with the PS1 ;>

i hate people that think a 4 banger can't race... and that all imports are "rice"... IMO these people can go to hell

btw, an h22a is a DOHC 4 cyl, i know, cuz i'm gonna be putting one in my car, an accord(not a new one, a 3rd gen, the one with the flip up lights)... it will be a full car... it now weighs 4,000 pounds, it will weigh about 4,500... with all the mods, i predict that i can run 10's in street trim... all of this done tastefully

when i get my car built, i'll take on any american car in street trim, anyday

peace,
ugly

to whoever said an import cant run 9s street legal, u must only be referring to fwd cuz theres quite a good number of street legal imports running 9s and 8s and a few in the 7s. btw has anyone seen norwood racings acura integra funny car? i know its not street legal but it is a 4 cylinder delivering almost 4,000 hp, expected to run mid 5's at 250 mph. tell me a 4 cylinder cant be made fast now.

Originally posted by ugly racer
i hate people that think a 4 banger can't race... and that all imports are "rice"... IMO these people can go to hell

btw, an h22a is a DOHC 4 cyl, i know, cuz i'm gonna be putting one in my car, an accord(not a new one, a 3rd gen, the one with the flip up lights)... it will be a full car... it now weighs 4,000 pounds, it will weigh about 4,500... with all the mods, i predict that i can run 10's in street trim... all of this done tastefully

when i get my car built, i'll take on any american car in street trim, anyday

peace,
ugly

whatever dude:p

different strokes for different folks

Originally posted by ugly racer
btw, an h22a is a DOHC 4 cyl, i know, cuz i'm gonna be putting one in my car, an accord(not a new one, a 3rd gen, the one with the flip up lights)... it will be a full car... it now weighs 4,000 pounds, it will weigh about 4,500... with all the mods, i predict that i can run 10's in street trim... all of this done tastefully


Your 3rd generation stock accord weights 4,000 pounds??? That seems like a bit much.

it's a sedan

peace
ugly

it still seems kind of heavy man. my 98 accord lx sedan weighs just a tad under 3000.

arent they supposed to weigh like 2600? i think thats what my friends 88 accord sedan weighs.

that's what i was told by my uncle, who is a mechanic, but he hasn't weighed the car...


peace
ugly

the hatchback's to the 4 door sedans all weight 2400lbs give or take a little

Originally posted by ldelaysionl
to whoever said an import cant run 9s street legal, u must only be referring to fwd cuz theres quite a good number of street legal imports running 9s and 8s and a few in the 7s. btw has anyone seen norwood racings acura integra funny car? i know its not street legal but it is a 4 cylinder delivering almost 4,000 hp, expected to run mid 5's at 250 mph. tell me a 4 cylinder cant be made fast now.

You must be talking about Bernie Harrington's 527cid blown Chevy big block,GM TH400, ford 9 inch rear end and the chrommolly tube frame with a glass Integra body on it. Is that the one?

Originally posted by bluez28guy


You must be talking about Bernie Harrington's 527cid blown Chevy big block,GM TH400, ford 9 inch rear end and the chrommolly tube frame with a glass Integra body on it. Is that the one?

haha(if this is true)

no its a new car, 268 cu in (4.8 liter) 4 cylinder running 55 pounds of boost and nitromethane. the 1st true import funny car, but definately not the last. in feb 2002 issue of turbo magazine. link to it here http://www.turbomagazine.com/archives/tech/0202_tech01.jsp
i have seen the car youre talking about though.

cool man

Originally posted by ldelaysionl
no its a new car, 268 cu in (4.8 liter) 4 cylinder running 55 pounds of boost and nitromethane. the 1st true import funny car, but definately not the last. in feb 2002 issue of turbo magazine. link to it here http://www.turbomagazine.com/archives/tech/0202_tech01.jsp
i have seen the car youre talking about though.

You cought me with my pants down! I have to say I was inpressed.

Originally posted by enzo@af
He may get flamed, but Dark Horse is right. There are...and have been for a long time...V8's out there that run sub-2-second 0-60s on the street. Civics are not sports cars and there are a lot of people out there that think they are. They are Econoboxes, not powerhouses.

It just seems silly to me. It's like trying to turn Pearl Jam into Bach. I guess I just don't understand it.

And, I think the Leblanc Caroline is the fastest 4banger to date.

----------
"Ferrari isn't a car, it's a lifestyle"
-Enzo Ferrari.


Civics are not sports cars and there are a lot of people out there that think they are. They are Econoboxes, not powerhouses.


that is what make the times that they are getting to even more impressive than what the V8's are getting

Originally posted by Dark Horse
I'm talking about my 98 Mustang GT...Full interior, 3 MTX 12" woofers in the back..power everything. The car weighs 3600+
And has a best E.T of 9.896 @ 142.1, And it has a Tremec 6 spd manual, and it doesn't have wheelie bars or a chute. It'll be in the low 9's this spring...when I get my new Blower. And the only probalem I've had out of it was a blown gasket when i ran too much boost without enough intercooler. And how much does your ar weigh?....thats the reason you can get into the 11's easily.

Edited by: Dark Horse

http://www.haiparts.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?threadid=3089

That guy can take you and he is running the stock bottom end. The car is full interior and full street trim. He isn't even the fastest street driven supra around either. There is another guy that runs 9.5's in street trim.....

Well, the Mustang is one of Ford's fastest production cars. And since most big block V8s have a lot more untapped potential than 4 cylinders, theres no real comparison. Its like comparing the Ford Focus to a Nissan Silvia S15.

And another thing, Japanese cars are way better at Autocross than they are at Drag Racing. It's just the way that they are built. Sure your Mustang outclasses almost every Japanese car out on the drag strip good for you. Just be prepared to eat your words whenever you learn to drive something besides a straight line, and take your Mustang out to go Autocrossing.

Darkness:

Just to correct you on a few things.
The Mustang doesn't have a "big block V8" like you said.
It's actually a "small block" technically.

Secondly, I'll take ONE of my cars out on the roadcourse.
I bet it would fair very well against almost any import (aside from the major exotics). As it sits now, it could rival a Porsche on a road course.

I can also bring out ONE of my cars to the drag strip and rip off an easy 11 sec. pass ON MOTOR and drive it home with full interior, regular old PUMP GAS (none of that "race gas" stuff supras like) and have my stereo blastin'....

well blackbird, get one of your cars out and rally race me. :devil: :D any one i dont care!

Shut up. :D

Maybe my car won't go 9's or 10's but that don't meean it's slow.
Last time I went to the track I ran a 1.7 sec 60ft.
Left home with 4 gallons of Texaco unleaded hi-test in the tank ran several high 12's and drove home.
The motor and trans cost me $500-600 to build and I have less than $2000 in the car. (Not a beauty contest winner either)
I race at Cecil County Dragway, Friday night heads up racing with everybody! I don't win every race, I probably win 80% though. What does this say for all the v-8 guys. They need help just like the slower imports. I was even having big fun when I was running 14's!

Listen, the important part is this:

You don't need to be #1 all the time, I'm having just as much fun as anyone at the track!

Go ahead, flame away!
Robert

actually, mustangs have rally go suspension systems, thats what there know for....i wouldnt talk to mujch shit about them on auto X courses..there not bad, especially GT's,,

it's as simple as this:

domestic owners/enthusiasts compare their fastest cars, to our slower imports. the civic was intended to be a car to just get in, drive to the store, pick up the kids and do it without using a lot of gas. now you can't tell me a mustang or camaro was designed for the same thing. so to me, it is an accomplishment to see an import that was intended to be slow, move fast in a race. think about this: civic vs focus or escort that is more along the lines of being fair. so now move up a bit to say.. a prelude (if we're going to stay in honda) or of course the supra's and rx7's who have a better match to the fast domestics because they are meant to be sportier then the other cars made in those companies.

so basically what i'm saing is, stop with the damn rice wars. yea there may be a bunch of 'rice' looking cars on the road, but most imports are cheap and their the mainstream thing you hear about. so all the little kids who got their licence/car after fast and furious make their uneducated attepts to copy the movie. i agree i see a lot of BULLSHIT imports on the road as you say. but i myself keep it clean, and i don't claim to have a fast car. and i've never even been to the strip myself. but i have one thing a lot of people don't have. respect. don't clown an entire nation of cars because people make SOME look gay, or they're SLOW. i respect domestics just as i respect imports. when i see a nice car from either class... i respect it when respect is due. i dont hate all domestics, i don't love all imports.

i'll stop rambling in hopes that some of you understand the point i'm trying to make. there's no need to add fuel to an argument.

Originally posted by Dark Horse
Well, I more or less don't have to worry about gettin beat by a little ricer, How many 9 Second 4-Bangers are driven on the street?.....none around my hunting ground :D In my book any jap. 4 banger is rice don't like the way i think? Well...I don't give a shit....Blow Me
-The Anti rice

----------
For my Message Board Click Here (http://pub42.ezboard.com/bthemustangmessageboards)


A Mustang GT running 9's? You mind if I See that time slip and a picture of your engine bay?

personally.. i dont think the 8's have anything to aorry about... i dont mean to say that 4's are bad in any way, its just that a little rice cooker will never 'out torque' a 350 big block or 440 hemi

anywayz... if someone running a 4-5 second quarter in a civic or something like that is definately gonna kill some spectators... maybe these engines are hard tuned, but their not prepared for the stresses of working at over 8000, the little shoping trolleys are bound to shoot there glowing hot pistons onto an innocent veiwing public

Originally posted by Jimbo_Jones
maybe these engines are hard tuned, but their not prepared for the stresses of working at over 8000, the little shoping trolleys are bound to shoot there glowing hot pistons onto an innocent veiwing public

Many of honda's 4cyl engines come from the factory with 8k RPM or near redlines. Like Integra GSR's Type R's, Civic SI's, and of course the S2k, which turns 9 grand. It's actually not that hard to build up an honda 4cyl so that it can turn 8-10k RPM all day long. You just have to have the righ materials and some knowledge under your belt.

i'll accept that... but i still dont think that 8's (in a drag racing perspective) have anything to worry about, the small fours arent throwing enough weight in the pistons

I agree not all imports should be considered "Rice" and i also agree that import sports cars do have potential, but civics and other economy cars DO NOT have potential they are only economy cars. the import sports cars do have potential such as the supra, vr4, s2000, wrx etc..., but they cost a lot of money, and even more to upgrade. My engine, 5.0L v8, cost me $600 and it can run 13's n/a look at most all n/a import sports cars and they have a hard time running 14's and they cost a lot. The vr4 is impressive, but it takes twin turbos on a v6 to do what my $600 used crate motor can do n/a. it's not that imports are evolving they're just getting smaller look at the wrx, and s2000 not much real horsepower, but very light. I know a guy who built a racing civic and it gets 11's, but every three runs he has to rebuild the engine, I don't even know how many engines he has gone through with that car.

Its fun to make a slow car fast, its fun to make an ugly car look cool

if we all liked the same things THEN THIS WHOLE FUCKING WORLD WOULD SUCK

people have different taste and they will always have diff. taste so quit bitching about how hondas suck b/c me and all the other honda owners will not sell it b/c you dont like it

im so sick of all these people going around "imports suck" shut the fuck up and go drive your car and turn your head b/c im sick of your little ass always complaining like your goin to do something. I hate mustangs but guess what? i dont say that i dont go around and say they are pieces of shit that get shitty gas mileage, suck in autocrossing, and they break down to fucking much.

i bought my honda for 4 simples reasons
i get 35mpg
my weight distribution is 50/50
my car weighs 2200lbs
and the fucker has 165k miles on it and its still has no problems

reply and keep on saying shit................its to early (3:58am)
im out

Originally posted by 1989CivicSi


i bought my honda for 4 simples reasons
i get 35mpg
my weight distribution is 50/50
my car weighs 2200lbs
and the fucker has 165k miles on it and its still has no problemsI hate to flame, but these kind of mixed up facts is what gets import, and most commonly Honda drivers labeled as punks and riceboys. Your Civic does not have a 50/50 weight distribution. Not unless you have enough stereo equipment in back to off-set the weight up front of your engine and transmission (and if you do have that much stereo equipment in back, your car sure don't weigh 2,200 lbs). Most or all FWD Hondas range from 60/40 to 64/36.

You will note if you research this carefully that FWD cars do not have a 50/50 weight distribution by design. Just as rear engine, RWD drive cars do not either. Look up some Porsche 911 stats, and as well as they handle, you will see that they usually tip the scales at around a 38/62 distribution. Front engine, RWD drive cars handle and function well with a 50/50 weight distribtion. This is why you see every car that BMW makes, as well as the Honda S2000, with this weight distribution or something very close to it; cars like the Corvette and Viper come close to this as well.Originally posted by Jimbo_Jones
personally.. i dont think the 8's have anything to aorry about... i dont mean to say that 4's are bad in any way, its just that a little rice cooker will never 'out torque' a 350 big block or 440 hemi

anywayz... if someone running a 4-5 second quarter in a civic or something like that is definately gonna kill some spectators... maybe these engines are hard tuned, but their not prepared for the stresses of working at over 8000, the little shoping trolleys are bound to shoot there glowing hot pistons onto an innocent veiwing public This article should silence your skepticisim about what “four bangers” can do at the drag strip when prepped for top fuel duty, just like 8-liter V8's.

http://www.turbomagazine.com/tech/0202tur_extremeedge/

Originally posted by Dark Horse
I'm gettin so sick of people talking about the "Import Scene" who gives a flying fuck.
Maybe some of the little rice burners are in the 8's, but how many of them are street legal? There are THOUSANDS of Camaros and Mustangs runnin around the country with low 8 second E.T's I myself am gettin there (9.89 @ 142) And it takes twice the money to get a fuggin rice burner into the 8's as it does a domestic. In conclusion...F.U.C.K Rice!

----------
For my Message Board Click Here (http://pub42.ezboard.com/bthemustangmessageboards)

bullshit.......show me an 8 sec. camero thats street legal.......just show me one. i don't see many of those driving around, where do you live?

Originally posted by 76_cobra
I agree not all imports should be considered "Rice" and i also agree that import sports cars do have potential, but civics and other economy cars DO NOT have potential they are only economy cars. the import sports cars do have potential such as the supra, vr4, s2000, wrx etc..., but they cost a lot of money, and even more to upgrade. My engine, 5.0L v8, cost me $600 and it can run 13's n/a look at most all n/a import sports cars and they have a hard time running 14's and they cost a lot. The vr4 is impressive, but it takes twin turbos on a v6 to do what my $600 used crate motor can do n/a. it's not that imports are evolving they're just getting smaller look at the wrx, and s2000 not much real horsepower, but very light. I know a guy who built a racing civic and it gets 11's, but every three runs he has to rebuild the engine, I don't even know how many engines he has gone through with that car.
how bout CRX's?:D and your friend is having serious problems if he has to rebuid the motor that many times.

Dark Horse,
Let's see a scanned timeslip and let's hear some of these mods. 9.8's and a 142 trap speed? That seems a bit slow for a trap speed at that E.T. but I could be wrong. Lord knows I've been wrong before. If you wanna play with "rice" let me know. I'll run on street tires or I can put on some slicks. By the way, I even have the fully stock interior and the a/c. But I'm always in a playful mood and I think you'll be impressed by my weak little straight six

I DON'T GET TIHS WHOLE THING WITH COMPARING V8'S TO 4 CYLINDERS.............SURE UR V8 CAN PUT OUT AN IMPRESSIVE NUMBER BUT I PERSONALLY THINK THAT WHEN A 4 CYLINDER DOES IT, IT'S MORE OF AN ACCOMPLISHMENT B/C IT'S A 4 CYLINDER.....I THINK THAT 4 CYLINDER HAVE COME A LONG WAY AND ITZ TRUE THAT MUSCLE CARS ARE JUST REPEATING B/C FATHERS OF NOW RACERS HAVE BEEN DOING IT....BUT AS IMPORTS GO.....THEY'RE SOMETHING NEW....TRUE U MY ALL THEM RICERS...BUT DON'T U THINK ANOTHER TERM WAS USED WHEN IT WAS JUST MUSTANGS AND CAMEROS THAT LITTERED THE STREETS?? A 4CYLINDER MAKING JUST 300BHP WASN'T EVEN IMAGINED A FEW SHORT YEARS AGO...

AND I'M SURE MOST OF YOU HAVE ALREADY SEEN THIS IN HOTROD MAGAZINE http://www.hotrod.com/featuredvehicles/22838/index.html

Originally posted by Frostbyte


A Mustang GT running 9's?

If you would get your head out of import tuner and look in other car mags, like Muscle Mustang and Fast Fords or Mustang 5.0, you will see that there are plenty of street legal mustangs running 9's. They do write ups on a couple every month. There are way more 9's street legal American muscle cars than there are 9's street legal Supras or Skylines.
Sorry but it's the truth.

As for Mustangs not being able to handle, I guess you don't ever watch the Rolex Sports Car series do you? Almost every kind of sports car in world from 350z's,NSX's,Ferrari 360's, to Daytona prototype racecars compete on the same road course in 3 different classes. The first and only car to pass a Daytona prototype racecar and hold the lead for more than a lap was Boris Said in a Mustang.

I like imports as well and own a 1997 Acura Integra. I don't agree that imports suck in any way. I actually drove only imports until about a year ago. I bought a Cobra about a year ago and love it better than any car I have ever owned. It has gobs of hp and can take corners better than my integra, so it handles great.

'03 Cobras have been out about a year and are already doing this:

http://www.cobrar.net/vid/NitroPete999.wmv


:eek7:

Originally posted by 1989CivicSi

i bought my honda for 4 simples reasons
i get 35mpg
my weight distribution is 50/50
my car weighs 2200lbs
and the fucker has 165k miles on it and its still has no problems

reply and keep on saying shit................its to early (3:58am)
im out

#1: I dont' know of ANY car with a perfect 50/50 weight distribution
#2: My car has 175K miles on it and has no problems big deal...
#3: This is not a flame, just makin' a couple of points to you i do not wish to get into a verbal fight/argument with ya, tryin' to keep it semi friendly in here.

M3 and possibly the M5 has perfect 50/50 weight ratio...can i afford one:rolleyes:

Originally posted by BLU CIVIC
M3 and possibly the M5 has perfect 50/50 weight ratio...can i afford one:rolleyes:


Dont forget the Z06 :)



1970 Nova SS 396ci Big block has a 55/45 weight distribution... That's not to shabby for an old warhorse. My car doesnt have the weight of a big block.. so It's a little better... still peaks the scales at over 3300lbs though. :tongue:

Originally posted by RedNeck383



Dont forget the Z06 :)



1970 Nova SS 396ci Big block has a 55/45 weight distribution... That's not to shabby for an old warhorse. My car doesnt have the weight of a big block.. so It's a little better... still peaks the scales at over 3300lbs though. :tongue:


for the size 3300 is not bad at all....put a few aluminum bodypanels some sparco lightweight seats a lighter batery....and you'll be in the low 3000 in no time.....

I just did some research in my Nova book... base Nova 350 V8 Coupe tipped the scales at just 3200lbs. :biggrin:

Fully loaded '74 SS was just 3314lbs. The big block versions were near over 3400lbs, but had the extra grunt to carry it.

:bigthumb:

sweet:bigthumb:

Quote:
#1: I dont' know of ANY car with a perfect 50/50 weight distribution

I believe the rx-7 has 50/50 weight distribution, but I could be wrong.

Originally posted by USAKnight
They couldn't beat us with the gun in World War II, so now they're trying to beat us with the yen and the 4-cylinder.
This is truly ironic. I wish I could remember the name... there was a fellow, a U.S. citizen, that had ideas. Great ideas on how to build up automobile manufacturing and improve deisgn & produciton of cars. He approached every major U.S. car manufacturer and they all rejected him and his ideas... after WWII (that you referenced) he went over to Japan and helped rebuild.... guess what market he helped in?
Originally posted by USAKnight
Buy American!
It is not American to buy "American". It is American to participate in the free enterprise system. As part of that system, business compete to offer products and services at a fair price and consumers decide/evaluate which is best. Maybe if we produced better cars at a better price, people would be American and buy American.

If you really want to help the U.S., maybe you could help initiate the production of better cars here. U.S. cars wasteful and poorly designed for the most part. I love my country (the U.S.), but there isn't a car produced here that I would ever want to drive.

Quote:
BTW, Let's see the Japs build something that can outrun a F-15C or an AIM-9 Sidewinder!


They can't cause we wont let them have a military since WW2, LOL.

He approached every major U.S. car manufacturer and they all rejected him and his ideas... after WWII (that you referenced) he went over to Japan and helped rebuild.... guess what market he helped in?
Has anyone ever explained the reasoning behind why they rejected this person? I remember someone spouting this in another thread but it seems to be just be one-side of the story.

If you really want to help the U.S., maybe you could help initiate the production of better cars here. U.S. cars wasteful and poorly designed for the most part.
Wow here we go another Import vs Domestic thread thanks USAKnight...
Fact of the matter is this isn't the 70's or 80's anymore and American cars are just as good as any Import design. You're going to find the same good quality in a 97 Grand Am or Grand Prix as you would find in a 97 Maxima or a Accord. Cost isn't really any different either.

Originally posted by DeViL
Fact of the matter is this isn't the 70's or 80's anymore and American cars are just as good as any Import design.
I recently dynoed my 1991 Toyota at 308 RWHP. From the factory the car puts out 165 RWHP. I am nearly doubling original OEM HP 13+ years later.

It is the original, unopened engine with 194,000 miles on it.

It has done over 19 dyno pulls.

It has done over 60 passes on the 1/4 mile (10 of them in the 12s). I should be tasting 11s my next time out (last weekend I tore an axle going for it). I run 20-22 psi of boost on this engine.

Please show me a domestic product that could make such a claim.

so are you saying you're amazed that 20-22 pounds of boost get's you from 165 rwhp to 308 rwhp?

Cause if you're running 20 pounds of boost on a 165 hp car, I would expect at least 300 hp.

But if you're running that same 20 pounds on a 308 hp car, you'd get 500-600 hp and more than just an axle torn out.

Anyway, just wondering cause I could do F/I on my 89 teg and be talking 240 hp when it came out of the factory 118... And it's almost 15 years old.

Nothing special, just a compressor.:smile:

Lancaster, I am not amazed that 20-22 pis gets me 308 rwhp, the impressive part is my engine almost has 200,000 miles on it an has stayed together.

The oem 165 RWHP (200 @ the crank) I indicated was for a stock turbo MR2 at 9-10psi on a much smaller turbo.

As for your 89 teg, I do not know the stats on those cars, but it doesn't matter becuase it is also an imported car.

If you get the point of my post is that you would not find a domestic made car that has close to 200K miles and be able to double its HP and have it live... much less live as long as mine has.

ohhhhh okay,, gotchu now.

But, I really don't know about that.
Got a friend with a old 403 that he had in his 76 trans am, and he was going to put a blower on it, he needs to do some valve work on the engine first. But I do believe with an intercooler (or two) that his engine could take a 15-20 pound boost; and it is prety much a crate engine.
Now that motor isn't high milage, but it has had the hell beaten out of it.
Hehe, that guy rarely accelerates in that car like a normal person.

But I'll know if the motor can take it when he does it.
Good luck with the 11s!

Originally posted by LancasterWannaBe
he needs to do some valve work on the engine first...... it is prety much a crate engine.
Does not compare... I am talking about the an unopened, OEM motor that came originally in the car. No valve work, no anything... never opened. 194,000 miles.

The recent debate was someone saying that domestics are made as well as imports. I challenge that.

well, what is it you think that makes an import last longer than a domestic?

How come I've never had to open the engine block on my 89 teg at 161,000 miles and counting?
(although, I have had to do a shit load of electrical work and thats worse in my opinion)

I do think that a lot of domestics were built crappy for a long time and they need to clean up their act. Like, my family has a 92 for 15 passenger van.

Transmission went out twice.

Oil Pump broke off getting banged against the block and punching several nice holes in the cyl walls.

The interior hasn't held up at all (to be fare we were hard on it).

All but 1 door handle has broken. (And when we took it to the dealer and it was still on warranty, they said it was a plastic part so the bumper to bumper warranty didn't cover it. Later we opened the door and guess what, it was METAL part! Bastards)

The suspension is not doing to great these days.


So guess what man, I'm all for imports until domestics get their act together. (And they've been getting better for the last few years)

But like I said, I've had a lot of trouble with the electrical systems in my car.
Just tell me why you think the imports engines last so much longer.
But remember, a lot of them are actually built in the US, so my impression is it's not the country that makes them that counts, it's the company.

A neighbor of mine is selling a 95 Grand Am with 167,000 miles on it, that isn't near 200k but still thats quite a damn bit and the thing still runs fine.

YOu bunch of hypocrites! Deleting my post! It's okay for you to bash American cars, but somebody with the cajones to stand up to the import fags speaks up, and he's deleted? You're just like the Japs tried to be in 1941, before WE, the AMERICANS, kicked their asses; a bunch of tyrants! I thought that maybe this was a cool place to hang out and talk cars, but I see now that it's just a bunch of punks that do nothing but bash their home country and talk about some import. People that have to buy these $250,000 cars because they lack the ability to work on a regular car.

IF YOU HATE THE UNITED STATES AND AMERICAN CARS, GET THE HELL OUT! GO TO JAPAN! THE REAL AMERICANS CERTAINLY DON'T WANT YOU HERE!

As for their military, how about PEARL HARBOR? That really happened, you know, it wasn't just a movie. We lost over 300,000 men and women, men and women a lot better than you, in that war, just because the Japs wanted to take over Asia. Ever heard about the Rape of Nanking? (I doubt you have, you probably read "Import Tuner" in history class) The Japanese Army murdered over 600,000 Chinese civilians FOR THE FUN OF IT! Two officers held a competition to see who could be the first to behead 100 Chinese.

Not American to buy American? What kind of hippie, Jap propaganda is that? I don't know if you know this or not, but when you buy foreign, people over here lose JOBS! Factories close, kids lose the chance to go to college, people lose money, the economy suffers, and our nation, or should I say my nation as it appears I'm the only REAL American here, suffers. Cars aren't the only thing the Japs are into, either. Enjoy a right to bear arms? The Japanese government is pressuring the US to adopt stricter gun control laws.

LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL

Originally posted by DeViL
A neighbor of mine is selling a 95 Grand Am with 167,000 miles on it, that isn't near 200k but still thats quite a damn bit and the thing still runs fine.
OK, now double the original OEM HP levels, run low 12s and do sixty 1/4 mile passes and let me know how it is running then. ;) and I still have 20% more mileage.

Originally posted by USAKnight
Not American to buy American? What kind of hippie, Jap propaganda is that? You obviosuly do not understand economics or hte hippie movement. There is nothing "hippie" about what I posted. In fact, it is quite counter. It was 100% for a free enterprise system.

Originally posted by USAKnight
I don't know if you know this or not, but when you buy foreign, people over here lose JOBS! Factories close, kids lose the chance to go to college, people lose money, the economy suffers
Then maybe American companies should do something to be competitive?

Dude, CALM DOWN.

The Japanese also tested chemical weapons - including anthrax - on humans. Thats not just sick, thats evil. I know. They were the bad guys in WW2, and they lost. You want to talk history though, we the US, made a deal with them and didn't execute some of their generals so we could get some of their chemical weapon research. Now that doesn't make us look to good now does it.

If you're worried about the Japanese taking over the car business, go out and build a better car for the US. Hell, I'll help you! give me 7 more years to get my EE degree and I'll design your electrical systems.

But going off on people here isn't helping anything. It's only hurting your "cause." I read your post that got deleted and I dont recall anything offensive about it, but whatever, LET IT GO.

is this what happens when old people move from yelling at people on thier porch to yelling at people on the net :iceslolan :lol:

it must be... :shakehead

Originally posted by LancasterWannaBe
it must be... :shakehead

No, it's what happens when REAL, RED-BLOODED AMERICANS start standing up for their culture and heritage. I'm not alone in this. Maybe someday you will grow up and understand the dangers of globalization, but then it may very well be too late. The Japanese PM called us "fat, lazy, illiterate, and AIDS-infected" to our president's face at a summit, and you still defend those people? If American cars are so bad, how come nearly every vehicle on the road is a FORD, CHEVROLET, DODGE, or GMC truck or SUV?

BTW, I'm in my 20s, sadly a part of the generation that will see (and play a large part in) the downfall of the United States of America.

Also, how many of you hypocrites have an American flag sticker on your riceburners?

if American cars are so popular, then we've got nothing to worry about do we?

I turn 20 this Oct, so I'll be there with you.
In the meantime, I am attending school full time, and searching for a a second part time Job or just one good full timer.

Maybe when I'm in my 20s I'll be able to do more about what I believe in, but I won't go ranting on some Auto forums only to get my posts deleted.

And no, I don't have an American flag on my teg, but I do have three on/around my home.

If I am called to, I will gladly fight and DIE for the United States, but for now, I'll drive my Integra.

Originally posted by USAKnight


No, it's what happens when REAL, RED-BLOODED AMERICANS start standing up for their culture and heritage. I'm not alone in this. Maybe someday you will grow up and understand the dangers of globalization, but then it may very well be too late. The Japanese PM called us "fat, lazy, illiterate, and AIDS-infected" to our president's face at a summit, and you still defend those people? If American cars are so bad, how come nearly every vehicle on the road is a FORD, CHEVROLET, DODGE, or GMC truck or SUV?

BTW, I'm in my 20s, sadly a part of the generation that will see (and play a large part in) the downfall of the United States of America.

Also, how many of you hypocrites have an American flag sticker on your riceburners? Show me where the outburst of name calling begins? (Give me a link) If the prime minister of japan hates american's so much, why did he accept the offer of the president of the united states to host there next summit in 2004? No one said american cars are bad. I fail to see how the ppl who work at various japanese car manufacturer's are in cahoots with the prime minister of japan.... No offense, but your going a little deep with the conspiracy theroy's here.

OK, now double the original OEM HP levels, run low 12s and do sixty 1/4 mile passes and let me know how it is running then. and I still have 20% more mileage.
I can't show you an american car that is used to drag race with 200,000 miles on the engine. No one in their right mind is going to use an engine with that many miles on it to race competitively. There might be one out there but thats next to impossible for me to find. So what the hell does that matter? You probably have one of the better motors to come out of the Toyota assembly line, I gurantee you not all MR2's will last as good as yours seems to be doing.

Fact is 167,000 is a lot of mileage on any engine and if its held up that long then its a good engine. Thats only one case other american car owners have had engines past that as well.

I can't show you an american car that is used to drag race with 200,000 miles on the engine. No one in their right mind is going to use an engine with that many miles on it to race competitively. There might be one out there but thats next to impossible for me to find. So what the hell does that matter? You probably have one of the better motors to come out of the Toyota assembly line, I gurantee you not all MR2's will last as good as yours seems to be doing.

Fact is 167,000 is a lot of mileage on any engine and if its held up that long then its a good engine. Thats only one case other american car owners have had engines past that as well.

:werd: I'd have to agree with that...

Originally posted by DeViL
No one in their right mind is going to use an engine with that many miles on it to race competitively.Agreed, I never claimed to be in my right mind :D

Originally posted by DeViL
Thats only one case other american car owners have had engines past that as well. I fully agree that a sampling of "one" is in not indicative of the bunch.

However, I would definently wager that a Toyota engine would run longer and harder than a domestic made engine.

As for those who inquired why... I have no idea. I am not an engineer... all I know is what I have witnessed.

I dunno about all that I know those Corollas don't exactly have god's gift to car engines.

usaknight....you should try taking some basic economics classes......at least highschool level:loser:

Why don't you take a high-school look around? Every year, thousands of workers in the textile and other industries are left jobless because of NAFTA and globalization. Why don't you go down to Mississippi and tell those people left without a way to put food on the table for their children that "it's not American to buy American" and that other bullshit? I know why, because you would walk home with your riceburner hanging out of your ass, that's why. Or go down to your local VFW and tell those guys that used to hang around such wonderful resort locales as Iwo Jima, Guadalcanal, Tarawa, and Okinawa about how wonderful the Japanese are and how bad we are? Because you would soon have an unpleasant encounter with the business end of an M1 Garand, that's why.

Neutrino, you own an American car. Why are you defending these ricers?

As for the Jap PM calling us those names, it happened. Back when George Bush Sr. was president, around 1990, I believe.

As for why American companies don't put out superfast cars, have you ever thought about something called "insurance"? Every American V8 car that comes out is persecuted by the insurance companies until it ceases production. Insurance companies had as much to do with the death of the muscle car as did OPEC, so no, I'm not just pissed at the imports.

As for factories over here, where do you think the profit goes to? Back to Japan.

Originally posted by USAKnight
Every American V8 car that comes out is persecuted by the insurance companies until it ceases production. Insurance companies had as much to do with the death of the muscle car
Actaully the V8's were the death of themselves... like you, they didn't realize the world has changed and they were left behind. There is logical reasons as to why V8 insurance is so high. Do you really need that explained?

Originally posted by USAKnight
As for factories over here, where do you think the profit goes to? Back to Japan. AS well it should. They run fine businesses, make quality products and are competitive in the market place. Again, I think you might want to look into basic economics courses. I volunteer tech through Junior Achievement if you want/need some help with these concepts.

Originally posted by USAKnight
Or go down to your local VFW and tell those guys that used to hang around such wonderful resort locales as Iwo Jima, Guadalcanal, Tarawa, and Okinawa about how wonderful the Japanese are and how bad we are?
Do you have any idea how long ago WWII was? Do you realize the world has changed since then? Countries exist now that didn't exist then and other countries have dissolved and dissappeared.

Please come into this millennium. You are welcome here. Sit down and look around and see what it is all about now:
http://jekylandhyde.madpowaz.com/res.jpg

Originally posted by USAKnight
Why don't you take a high-school look around? Every year, thousands of workers in the textile and other industries are left jobless because of NAFTA and globalization. Why don't you go down to Mississippi and tell those people left without a way to put food on the table for their children that "it's not American to buy American" and that other bullshit? I know why, because you would walk home with your riceburner hanging out of your ass, that's why. Or go down to your local VFW and tell those guys that used to hang around such wonderful resort locales as Iwo Jima, Guadalcanal, Tarawa, and Okinawa about how wonderful the Japanese are and how bad we are? Because you would soon have an unpleasant encounter with the business end of an M1 Garand, that's why.

Neutrino, you own an American car. Why are you defending these ricers?

As for the Jap PM calling us those names, it happened. Back when George Bush Sr. was president, around 1990, I believe.

As for why American companies don't put out superfast cars, have you ever thought about something called "insurance"? Every American V8 car that comes out is persecuted by the insurance companies until it ceases production. Insurance companies had as much to do with the death of the muscle car as did OPEC, so no, I'm not just pissed at the imports.

As for factories over here, where do you think the profit goes to? Back to Japan.


I'm not defending any ricers.....but i am graduating from my University with a international relations degree emphasis on Global Trade and Economy.....so I have a very trourough backround in economics.....and even though some people will suffer from trade the Fact is that if the US would become a mercantilistic country its economy would be destroyed and your standard of living would go way down....


this is true for any country that tries to be selfsuficient.....study Brasil in the 80's for example and see what heppned to their economy when they tried to produce everything themselves

I would recomend some readings....the basic liberal economics theories of Ricardo or Adam Smith would be a good start....when you'll understand the comparative advantage theory you'll see why trade is good.....

You still don't get it. I'm not against trade, I'm against a foreign nation attempting to overrun our culture and attempts to force global conformity. What do you think I am, some kind of communist? I know how the economy (or what Dubya has left of it) works. As for insurance, suddenly street racing and speeding in a four-banger riceburner is safer than driving a V8? Come on! World War II was a long time ago, huh? Well, 9/11 wasn't yesterday, either. Let's talk about how nice Isamic radicals are. Go tell a Jewish person we should forget that war. Liberal economics, the "L" word is the key, isn't it? A bunch of bed-wetting, whining liberals trying to destroy the US and everything it stands for. I knew that the Japs calling for stricter gun control over here was part of a larger plan. The entire population under 30, with the exception of a few, have absolutely no idea what our nation is about, or our heritage, or our culture. All they care about is what's new and what's popular. Keep it up, folks, and see how long our freedom lasts.

YOU CAN ALL GO TO HELL.

"Those who forget history are doomed to repeat it."

Originally posted by USAKnight
What do you think I am, some kind of communist?
Yes. If you are intending to dictate from whom folks buy their goods from, you surely are closer to communist economic system than a free enterprise system.

Originally posted by USAKnight
As for insurance, suddenly street racing and speeding in a four-banger riceburner is safer than driving a V8?
When the numbers come in and 4-bangers start killing more folks than V8 I am sure the insruacne industry will respond. Maybe you should look at my street racing death page and see how many of those stories are Mustangs....

Originally posted by USAKnight
World War II was a long time ago, huh? Well, 9/11 wasn't yesterday, either. Let's talk about how nice Isamic radicals are. Go tell a Jewish person we should forget that war.
I really love debating with you :) Does that point really make sense to you? I would not tell you to forget about kicking somone in the nuts yesterday, but I would tell you to forget about someone who kicked your grandfather in the nuts 60+ years ago.... why would you take out on that guys grandchildren?

Originally posted by USAKnight
The entire population under 30have absolutely no idea what our nation is about, or our heritage, or our culture.
Well a big part of "what our culture" is about is the free enterprise system, which you seem to lack knowledge of.

Originally posted by USAKnight
Keep it up, folks, and see how long our freedom lasts.
Requiring people to "Buy American" would impose on freedoms... so apprently you ARE into getting rid of freedoms? You can't have it both ways. If you want a country with freedom, than folks will have the freedom to determine what products are best for them in the market place.


Originally posted by USAKnight
YOU CAN ALL GO TO HELL.
Funny how that kind of line is never said by the person winning the debate..... interesting.

You might want to look into a course on debate, in addition to that economics course. Hell, you might want to throw in a philosophy course too.

Did I say "The government should pass laws to make it illegal to buy foreign cars."? No. I said people shouldn't buy them, voluntarily. A boycott, if you will. I voice my views, you delete my thread; obviously someone has a problem with Freedom of Speech, A First Amendment right. I'm simply making an argument here. Did I say anything about restriciting trade? No. I am talking about a voluntary boycott and providing reasons to support it. If I had made a statement like "we should shut off all foreign trade and ban imports" then you would have a point, but I made no statement. Foreign trade is good, but when too much begins to harm domestic industry due to dumping, it's time to start looking out for number 1. I'm trying to stir a little pride here, get people to thinking. If I got some young people to thinking about the world around them instead of MTV and reality TV, I've accomplished my mission. I just hope that you are as concerned about civil liberties as you are about foreign trade. Do I think that Detroit has been sleeping on the job? HELL YES! Are all American cars inferior? HELL NO! I used to own a Mercury Cougar that had a rod knock at 130,000, but I also own a Chevy van that had over 325,000 on it without a problem until my dad let the Quadrajunk crap out due to poor maintanence. As for high-tech being the last word, look at a NASCAR Winston Cup car. NASCAR sucks since Earnhardt died, but those cars turn out 750-800 hp, and could, unrestricted, power those 3,400 steel cars to around 240 mph. They were running over 212 in 1987 before restrictor plates. That's carbs and pushrods in a smallblock. And how about NHRA? 7,000 hp/330 mph? I don't know why the OHC was so long in adaptation for production cars, both Chevy and Ford had them in their drag racing programs back in the 1960s. Look after your culture and how your honor the past, because everything that happens today happens as a result of the past. As for those guys at the VFW, seriously go thank them. Their sacrifice 60 years ago stomped out the most horrible tyranny the world has ever known, something that makes Saddam and his stooges look like mischievious Boy Scouts.


I still hate import cars, especially the riced-up ones. Because folks, when you put purple stripes and pink splatter paint, along with a huge wing and a primered air dam on any car, it just looks at best retarded, and usually just gay. And we don't need the American male to be anymore emasticated than boy bands and Barney have already made him.
http://www.workmall.com/flags/united_states_flag_files/us-m.gif

do you think i like riced up cars no.....and i stand for the fact that domestic cars are as good as imports....of couse variations from model to model and from brand to brand exist.....but to boycot foreign cars is equivalent to blocking trade.....which again its harmful to the us economy.....


you mentioned dumping....problem with dumping is that its imposible to do over a long enough period of time to do harm....we've done the mathematical and historical proff of it in class.....several US firms actually went in front of the Supreme Court to acuse a case of dumping and they were trown out......

you really have to try to study in depth economics to understand all those facets of long term macro economic efects...its not something you can get out of newspapers or CNN

Originally posted by USAKnight
Did I say "The government should pass laws to make it illegal to buy foreign cars."? No. I said people shouldn't buy them, voluntarily.You have a point. But would you not also agree that freedom would include buying a foreign car without being harrased and berated by my fellow countrymen?

Originally posted by USAKnight
you delete my thread; obviously someone has a problem with Freedom of Speech, A First Amendment right.
Actually "I" did not delete your post, I do not have that power on this board.
And freedom of speech does not apply to a private message board. The owners of the board and their agents can delete, edit and censor you as they wish.

Originally posted by USAKnight
it's time to start looking out for number 1.
Maybe #1 should work on being competitive at their own game? What kind of "person" designs a game and then wants to whine when others beat them at it?

Originally posted by USAKnight
As for high-tech being the last word, look at a NASCAR Winston Cup car.
rofl NASCAR is using push rod motors and you are referncing them as high-tech rofl

Originally posted by USAKnight
those cars turn out 750-800 hp,
Out of a nearly 6 liter engine.... CART was getting over 1000HP out of a 2.3 liter engine.

Originally posted by USAKnight
That's carbs and pushrods in a smallblock.
Whooo hooo ... blast from the past. Maybe we should go back to manual cranking our cars to start them up?

Originally posted by USAKnight
As for those guys at the VFW, seriously go thank them. Their sacrifice 60 years ago stomped out the most horrible tyranny the world has ever known
Yes of course..... but do you really think the people of Japan, Germany and Italy are proud of how their country behaved in the past? It is a new world. Get with the program.

You act as though the U.S. does no wrong. Tell you what, I am going to chat with our friends at the VFW while you go chat with some American Indians (if you can find one).

I DIDN'T REFER TO NASCAR AS HIGH-TECH, I USED THEM AS AN EXAMPLE OF LOW-TECH POWER! TRY READING MY POSTS!

Well, if we're so slow and backwards and ignorant, maybe next time North Korea or China rises up, let Japan handle them alone. See how long that lasts. BTW, the computer you're reading this on, wonder where it was designed and made? The next time you get sick, don't go and take advantage of our medical technology, go to Japan. Which nation was the first to fly? Hell, we had airliners back when the Japanese were first discovering coal! And dammit, that don't look like the rising sun up on the moon! Looks like the stars and stripes to me, been there 30 years, too. Seriously, how much technology do the Japanese get from us? If it wasn't for our pioneering efforts in mass production, you wouldn't have a car period, or much of anything else.

IF WE'RE THAT BAD, LEAVE! I'D BE DAMNED IF I STAYED IN A PLACE THAT BAD.

Globalization is leading to a world tyranny. Face it people. Today cars, tomorrow our government. Go check on the civil liberties enjoyed by people in Asia, if you can find any.
I tried to be civil in my last post, but I see that I can't.
DRIVE YOUR TINY JAP CARS. JUST WATCH OUT FOR THOSE BIG, MEAN AMERICAN 18-WHEELERS, YOU KNOW THE ONES WITH ABOUT A MILLION MILES ON THEM WITH LITTLE MORE THAN REGULAR OIL CHANGES. I HEAR THEY MAKE AN EXTRA NASTY MESS OUT OF A COMPACT.
:thefinger :thefinger :thefinger :thefinger :thefinger :thefinger

Originally posted by USAKnight
BTW, the computer you're reading this on, wonder where it was designed and made? The next time you get sick, don't go and take advantage of our medical technology, go to Japan. Which nation was the first to fly? Hell, we had airliners back when the Japanese were first discovering coal!
You really do not understand free enterprise do you? I will buy my products where I find the best value, regardless of who produced it. Did I ever make a blanket statement that ALL Japanese products are better value than U.S. products?

Originally posted by USAKnight
If it wasn't for our pioneering efforts in mass production, you wouldn't have a car period, or much of anything else
So I should buy a U.S. built car because we pioneered an assembly line 100 years ago?

Originally posted by USAKnight
IF WE'RE THAT BAD, LEAVE! I'D BE DAMNED IF I STAYED IN A PLACE THAT BAD. Please show me where ever I said that we are bad? I love my country. I love living in a coutnry where I can freely buy a Japanese car of my choice.

Originally posted by USAKnight
:thefinger :thefinger :thefinger :thefinger :thefinger :thefinger
Funny how that kind of line is never said by the person winning the debate..... interesting.

You might want to look into a course on debate, in addition to that economics course. Hell, you might want to throw in a philosophy course too.

http://jekylandhyde.madpowaz.com/hub.jpg

YOU PUNKS THINK EVERY THING IS SOLVED WITH A COLLEGE COURSE! SO FREE ENTERPRISE IS BUYING EVERYTHING EXCEPT PRODUCTS MADE IN YOUR HOME COUNTRY, FREE ENTERPRISE IS BASHING YOUR HOME COUNTRY, AND FREE ENTERPRISE IS ALLOWING A FOREIGN NATION TO TRY TO DICTATE DOMESTIC POLICY. DAMN, THAT'S A LOT.

WHY DON'T YOU TAKE A COURSE IN KISSING MY WHITE, AMERICAN, ASS. WHILE YOU'RE AT IT, LOOK IT TAKING ANOTHER COURSE IN FUCKING YOURSELF.

Originally posted by USAKnight
YOU PUNKS THINK EVERY THING IS SOLVED WITH A COLLEGE COURSE! SO FREE ENTERPRISE IS BUYING EVERYTHING EXCEPT PRODUCTS MADE IN YOUR HOME COUNTRY, FREE ENTERPRISE IS BASHING YOUR HOME COUNTRY, AND FREE ENTERPRISE IS ALLOWING A FOREIGN NATION TO TRY TO DICTATE DOMESTIC POLICY. DAMN, THAT'S A LOT.

WHY DON'T YOU TAKE A COURSE IN KISSING MY WHITE, AMERICAN, ASS. WHILE YOU'RE AT IT, LOOK IT TAKING ANOTHER COURSE IN FUCKING YOURSELF.
http://jekylandhyde.madpowaz.com/resdumb.jpg

Quote:
WHY DON'T YOU TAKE A COURSE IN KISSING MY WHITE, AMERICAN, ASS. WHILE YOU'RE AT IT, LOOK IT TAKING ANOTHER COURSE IN FUCKING YOURSELF.

Yeah I'm proud to be an American just like you....
Grow up, or leave, just drop the name calling crap cause it makes you and everything you stand for look like crap.

Muscle Cars never died, they just modernized.
Corvette - one of the MOST advanced cars in the world.
Viper - common, it's a viper.

But you know what USAKnight, we can't forget WW2, you're right. Hell everyone's driving around with those 9/11 stickers that say "never forget" or "always remember." Why then should WW2 be any different.

Israel didn't even have a nation until after WW2 when we and several other nations decided to give them one. Unfortunately, it was on land belonging to other peoples. And thus we have the modern conflict. It would be pretty hard to support Israel if we all forgot WW2 wouldn't it.

9/11 branches directly from WW2, as did the cold war, which included the Korean War, Vietnam, Bay of Pigs, Cuban Misile Crisis.... Basicly the last 60 years has been full of conflicts due to WW2.

But guess what WW2 came from. Thats right, WW1. Conflicts were never put to rest, and nations were bitterly broken and thrown into poverty. Which is why Germany hated the French so much, look at the demands France laid down for the Germans (see it's the French, lol).

WW1 came from the 19th century's politics and the fact that almost every European nation was mass producing weapons.

Before that look to the French again and Napoleon.

Look back further and you'll see, people never forget, so then nor should we. We're probably still fighting wars that were started by the Egyptians 5000 years ago.

We should NEVER forget WW2, but we can't continue to hold it against Japan.

If the US wants to work on some of our economics we have many other places to start.

We have our own oil, we have vast sections of land from growing crops that could be distilled to methanol, We have oceans all around for producing Hydrogen and Oxygen to be used in fuel cells.

If you asked me what we should do next, I say stop depending on the Arabs for oil. They can mess with our prices, or threaten not to supply us anytime there's a conflict.

Right now there is a deal in the works between Alaska and California that would supply us with oil at 1/4 the price! I know because I did the audio at a meeting concerning it. Lets just hope dumb ass AMERICANS dont mess it up.

Tell me something, when you were young, how many of your toys said made in China?

OK guys I'm sick of reading your bickering in this forum. These topics you have all brought up are way out of reach of the drag racing aspect that this forum is meant for. If you all wish to keep this argument going, please keep it to PM's, or an appropriate forum.