Almost never!! :grinno: :naughty:

Take a look at this!!!! :eek: :yikes: :eek:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v482/Peloton25/McLaren%20F1%20D/bt000123_393220.jpg

This feels like the day I found my first shot of Flemke's F1. :sunglasse

For starters, I must thank a user of FChat (jgcferrrari) who PMd me with a link to this. I'm sure one of us would have tripped over it eventually, but it's nice to know there are others out there looking out for our cause. :cool:

Unfortunately the description on ExoticSpotter has very little detail beyond it's location and the date the photo was supposedly taken.

ES Link: Mclaren F1 - Culiacan, Mexico - 05/25/2004 (http://exoticspotter.com/list.php?page=2&batch=bt000123/bt000123_393220.jpg&model=all&make=all&location=all&frm=batch_listing)

My initial impression is that this could be #029 or #039. Although there are some screenshots from a video which could be #039, neither car has ever been positively identified with photos to my knowledge.

#029 - 25th built - Brazilian Brown Metallic (last built in 1994)

#039 - 32nd built - Creighton Brown

Of course this could be a refit of almost any car throwing any theories of color determining the chassis number right out the window. :dunno:

The gold colored wheels are certainly unique.

His note that came through read:

Knowing that you are a McLaren expert, I want to ask you if you have any information on the car pictured in the link, it says it is located in Culiacan, Mexico and it wouldn't suprise me because it is a place full of Drug Lords.

Thanks in advance

My response went like this:

Wow!! It's pretty rare that I see a photo of an F1 I have never seen, and even rarer that I see a picture of a car I can't identify. :eek: :cool: :eek:

I had thought there might be a silver F1 in Mexico, but didn't know anything about it. This car is definitely a surprise!!

As far as cars we aren't familiar with, this could be #029 or #039. Very little is known about either chassis. The first car was originally painted Brazilian Brown Metallic and the second one was listed as being painted Creighton Brown.

This color looks similar to Brazilian Brown, but I was told that car was actually repainted silver shortly after it was built as the color was not appealing. :confused:

Anyway, I really appreciate you sending me the link. I'm not sure if you live in Mexico, but if you can find out anything more on your own I'd love to hear about it. Just don't get yourself killed by the Drug Lords in the process. ;)


Brazilian Brown is an original color on the Mercedes Benz palette - here's the only photo I have ever managed to find of it on a car though:

http://www.classicdriver.de/upload/images/_uk/11849/img03.jpg

Not an exact match as the ExoticSpotter car seems to have more red in its paint, but differing exposure values could be playing tricks on the camera or maybe the Mercedes color pallette wasn't used. The one person who had seen the Brazilian Brown car described it as being similar to a UPS truck when it was completed - that certainly fits the description of the F1 in that photo from my perspective. They were also the one who claimed that the car was repainted though.

Of course sharp eyed viewers will have noticed one very strange/interesting detail about this car. It's not wearing a Mexican license plate, but instead wears a UK Reg plate that is identical to the one worn by David Clark's GTR #06R:

http://img129.imagevenue.com/loc435/th_20108_IMG_6249_122_435lo.JPG (http://img129.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=20108_IMG_6249_122_435lo.JPG)

Please explian that one to me.... :wtf:

Sorry for rambling - I just figured I would get the discussion started with everything I could think of. Your turn... :grinyes:

>8^)
ER

It gets a little more confusing....1996?

http://img150.imageshack.us/img150/1990/untitled8nb.th.jpg (http://img150.imageshack.us/my.php?image=untitled8nb.jpg)

That is quite interesting. It would seem the plate belongs to the car in the ExoticSpotter photo based on the color referenced in the registration.

Assuming the "Year of Manufacture" is accurate, there were only 7 road cars produced in 1996. That helps narrow things down for sure.

#047 - in the BMW Mobile Tradition Museum in Germany - not an option

#051 - well known dark green F1 - recently spotted in Japan, now apparently in the UK - not an option

#049 - Juan Barazi's F1 in the UK - not an option

#048 - believed to be the Blue car spotted in Monaco with Swiss registration several years back - currently MIA

#052 - Some screenshots from a video possibly showing it under build - currently MIA

#055 - One of Ralph Lauren's road cars - not an option

#060 - Probably the yellow car seen in Japan. Didn't look like it was going anywhere anytime soon. :grinno: - I'd say not an option

Hmmmm.... :popcorn:

>8^)
ER

I came up with a plausible theory on the plate. :2cents:

This photo of the brown car was supposedly taken in May 2004. Photos of GTR #06R wearing that number plate are more recent - some within a few months like the one I posted above, but the oldest one I have only dates back to June 2005.

Chris - I assume you gathered those registration details from the DVLA site today? One would hope it is current, making it seem strange that the GTR and this road car would share a plate, but what if that info was out of date?

I can only assume that maybe once the road car went to Mexico and was registered there, it surrendered the plate to the GTR owner who eventually arranged to use it on his GTR and maybe the government site was never updated?

>8^)
ER

Our friend from FChat works AMAZINGLY quick. :grinyes:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v482/Peloton25/McLaren%20F1%20D/th_mclarenculiacanfront.jpg (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v482/Peloton25/McLaren%20F1%20D/mclarenculiacanfront.jpg) <-- Click for hires :naughty:

A couple more quotes I will share from him:

It is really a surprise for me too. Im pretty much involved in the exotic car world in Mexico and know more or less what cars are in Mexico who owns them etc.. and had never known about a McLaren. The other thing that surprises me is that this car is in Culiacan a fairly small town that is run by drug lords, and this guys usually have no taste whatsoever and would prefer to buy an Escalade with spinners or a purple Lamborghini so this is really strange.

Well, it is BROWN with GOLD wheels - probably not everyone's first choice. :lol2:

I have been searching in mexican car forums, and I found some good information, the information is on a forum where they talk about japanese import cars and know nothing about european cars.

They say the car is in Culiacan as the picture suggests, the car is owned by a drug dealer by the nickname of "robachivas" his real name I think was Ricardo Beltran, they say this guy was killed some time ago they burned him or something like that. I cant imagine what someone like this would do to a Mclaren most of them are people with no education and really bad taste, and would not know what a Mclaren means, but anyway.

Another guy says in the forum that the car has been stored because since this guy was killed they cant find any keys for the car, again this might be or might not be true, I have sent him a message to see what I can get, and to confirm if the car is still in Mexico.

I have got another picture of the car where you can see it better and in higher resolution, It is a brown color with gold rims, and the car behind has Culiacan plates so this confirms that this car is really in Mexico.

The last statement references the photo above. I guess the plates on the Accord are definitely from that area of Mexico proving that the location mentioned on ExoticSpotter was accurate.

Hopefully he'll have the chassis number by tomorrow. :rofl:

>8^)
ER

Interesting stuff, I will pay close attention to this tread!

^^ I think we all will!

My eyes are glued to it, and I'm the one that posted it. :lol:

It's not every day, every month, or even every year (lately) that such a unique looking McLaren F1 comes along none of us have ever seen before. What a real treat! :thumbsup:

I do hope we can learn more about it and see some better photos of it, even if the chassis number remains a mystery for a while.

>8^)
ER

Re. the plate, it might just be a made-up plate that was used by McLaren. The front one got shipped out with the car, and the owner kept it on. A lot of people like to leave European or Japanese license plates on their imported cars. The rear one was left behind in England, apparently, and used on the Harrods car. If it is a valid registration, all they would have had to do is get a new front plate made up. Takes 10 minutes and 10 pounds.


I tend to believe the story of the car getting repainted quite quickly, so I would think this is the other chassis. It probably needs a complete overhaul of the engine and all rubber hoses and seals if it has been sitting for so long. What a sad waste. And what a story!

Interesting find Erik, :thumbsup:

The dark brown car in the pic is the ex Creighton Brown car. It is exactly as described to me by someone who has seen the car. On description, his words were "a very dark brown". There is also a strong possibilty he may have some photos of his factory visit. I shall contact him and find out more!!

Le Man, ask him if he remembers the wheels.

Interesting find Erik, :thumbsup:

The dark brown car in the pic is the ex Creighton Brown car. It is exactly as described to me by someone who has seen the car. On description, his words were "a very dark brown". There is also a strong possibilty he may have some photos of his factory visit. I shall contact him and find out more!!

Great to hear those details. :thumbsup:

I assume you meant to say that you believe this is chassis #039, but when you say "ex Creighton Brown car" are you implying that this car belonged to him at one point?

>8^)
ER

Great to hear those details. :thumbsup:

I assume you meant to say that you believe this is chassis #039, but when you say "ex Creighton Brown car" are you implying that this car belonged to him at one point?

>8^)
ER
If he did indeed own it perhaps it went to Brazil with him - and to Mexico through his South American Sportscars venture?

Brown with gold wheels - Possibly the worst F1 i've seen to date :puke:

But its another to add to my thread - http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=643083 so :cheers: for the pic!

Great to hear those details. :thumbsup:

I assume you meant to say that you believe this is chassis #039, but when you say "ex Creighton Brown car" are you implying that this car belonged to him at one point?

>8^)
ER

To clear the slight confusion. This was Creighton Browns own F1, not sure about the wheel colour though, but I will ask.

Some confusion reins over the colour title of Creightons car. While in discussion with my friend on his stand at the Autosport show, He stated his visit to the factory was at the end of 94 and if he had called a week later he would not have been allowed in, because of the start of the genesis GTR build ie 04R onwards. Making Creightons car #029 (Brazilian brown metallic) Thus not being the car with the colour named after him, #039. I shall call him tomorrow at his office and find out more.

Adding to the story - I had heard somewhere (and it may have been here) that the "Creighton Brown" color name was made up and applied somewhat humorously to a car that was chosen to be painted a unique shade of brown.

How many licks to the center of a Tootsie Roll Tootsie Pop again? :grinno:

>8^)
ER

If that is #029, then it got a quick repaint :banghead:

I will find out more!! this has got me going, something does not tie up :screwy:

Whoa! Nice find! The gold wheels look cool.

hmm, ive been thinking........ seeing as its supposedly a Drug Lords car, maybe one of his dodgy cronies did a drive-by or petrol job in it??? sure could explain the number plates :rofl:

or.............. its a back-street ringer :lol:

sorry couldnt help myself.
ill refrain from making any further posts like this :uhoh: :wink:

Very interesting thread !

I like puzzle like this :)
We hope you will find the answer :)

Phil

I,m wrong :banghead:

Called to see my friend today,

check out the bumper in the right hand side of this pic. Not the same shade of brown, on recollection he remembers the shade as being mid brown/bronze.:cwm27:

http://img329.imageshack.us/img329/4217/p12300017jv.th.jpg (http://img329.imageshack.us/my.php?image=p12300017jv.jpg)

The car was in the early stage of build. Sorry no other pics of this colour car.

I now have no idea what chassis#, that chocolate coloured F1 is. :uhoh:

"Perhaps UPS have a fleet of F1,s delivering parcels (or should that be packets) in Mexico."

check out the bumper in the right hand side of this pic. Not the same shade of brown, on recollection he remembers the shade as being mid brown/bronze.:cwm27:

http://img329.imageshack.us/img329/4217/p12300017jv.th.jpg (http://img329.imageshack.us/my.php?image=p12300017jv.jpg)

The car was in the early stage of build. Sorry no other pics of this colour car.

I think you are definitely on to something though, in more ways than one my friend. :grinyes:

Recall these screenshots you shared in this previous post (http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=4100794&postcount=17):

http://img363.imageshack.us/img363/8469/pdvd0773sc.th.jpg (http://img363.imageshack.us/my.php?image=pdvd0773sc.jpg) http://img479.imageshack.us/img479/5394/pdvd077a6xb.th.jpg (http://img479.imageshack.us/my.php?image=pdvd077a6xb.jpg) http://img479.imageshack.us/img479/8804/pdvd077b0oc.th.jpg (http://img479.imageshack.us/my.php?image=pdvd077b0oc.jpg) http://img479.imageshack.us/img479/2/pdvd0791jz.th.jpg (http://img479.imageshack.us/my.php?image=pdvd0791jz.jpg)

Those seem to match up exactly with the color of that bumper. The timing from when that video was shot based on other cars pictured had left me suspicious that this was #029 back when you originally posted them. These images may actually show the car's final color as this is not how it's original color was described to me. I'm becoming increasingly convinced... :)

= = = = = =

Now back to the car that started this thread and another of your sets of screenshots - thanks again by the way. :thumbsup:

In my opinion - this color that you identified as #039 "Creighton Brown" here in this post (http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=4535244&postcount=87) seems like it could definitely be an exact match for the F1 seen in Mexico. Here's your tiny color sample:

http://img242.imageshack.us/img242/6223/pdvd005nb1.th.png (http://img242.imageshack.us/my.php?image=pdvd005nb1.png)

In fact just like with #029 above, I'm increasingly convinced that we are looking at chassis #039 in Mexico because of some info I got from another source in regards to the license plate 'P440 CPJ' seen on this car. He told me:

The car plate is a normal UK plate. It normally gets assigned to the car for life, although its easily transfered via the DVLA.

One thing to note. It is P registered. By law, you can not put a registration number/letter newer than the car was first registered. i.e: you cant have a 2001 Merc C-class and put a 2006 reg on it to make it newer. You can put an older reg on it though.

Looking at UK registrations letters and dates...

01 August 1996 31 July 1997

That means, 'officially' that the car couldn't have been registered until after August 1996.

The reason he made this point was that he saw the Brazilian Brown car in what he thinks was 1995 (possibly 1996) and recalled Ron Dennis' first drive in it being on Easter of that year as it was the talk of the factory for several days. It would have needed to have been registered at that point, thus there is no way that #029 could be legally wearing the plate we see in these photos regardless of which year he spotted it. That makes sense to me, and almost positively excludes #029 from the list of possibilities here and firms up my opinion that the Mexico F1 is indeed chassis #039.

Another thing he recalled about #029 was a light tan interior which after a decade of memory loss (hey, it happens to the best of us ;)) could definitely describe what is seen in those screenshots. He said that apparently Creighton did have his own F1, but that the only car he ever saw the man driving was XP5.

Time will tell of course, but at this point I do think these are both becoming safe assumptions unless someone has information to the contrary they would like to share. Remember too, I am usually the skeptic around here lately when someone uses circumstantial evidence to positively identify an F1. :uhoh: :iceslolan

For now I feel comfortable calling each one "possibly #029" and "possibly #039" as referenced above.

>8^)
ER

Interesting Peloton,

it's a shame we have not rear pics :(
So, I have another question : why #06R has this plate today ? Any possibility the car pictured was owned by David Clark ?

Phil

I think you are definitely on to something though, in more ways than one my friend. :grinyes:


http://img363.imageshack.us/img363/8469/pdvd0773sc.th.jpg (http://img363.imageshack.us/my.php?image=pdvd0773sc.jpg) http://img479.imageshack.us/img479/5394/pdvd077a6xb.th.jpg (http://img479.imageshack.us/my.php?image=pdvd077a6xb.jpg) http://img479.imageshack.us/img479/8804/pdvd077b0oc.th.jpg (http://img479.imageshack.us/my.php?image=pdvd077b0oc.jpg) http://img479.imageshack.us/img479/2/pdvd0791jz.th.jpg (http://img479.imageshack.us/my.php?image=pdvd0791jz.jpg)



= = = = = =


http://img242.imageshack.us/img242/6223/pdvd005nb1.th.png (http://img242.imageshack.us/my.php?image=pdvd005nb1.png)


For now I feel comfortable calling each one "possibly #029" and "possibly #039" as referenced above.

>8^)
ER

I,m comfortable with that as well, although a few things still do not tie up!!

#039 Was built in mid 95, Thus if it was registered for use in the UK, it would have run a M reg plate. However if it got registered after Aug 1st 95, it will have been N reg. So from those reg details #039, sat around for over a year before registration??

But what is really interesting with these two chassis (or even three) is that the owners were not afraid to experiment with unique colour schemes, inside and out. A lot more adventerous than plain old silver!!

Thought I would add this pic in hear, Check out the exterior and interior colours.........any comments.

http://img258.imageshack.us/img258/9352/0121nk5.th.jpg (http://img258.imageshack.us/my.php?image=0121nk5.jpg)029? or 039?

My vote on that shot continues to be #012, the TAG-Heuer F1, until proven otherwise.

>8^)
ER

Wow, that color looks stunning! Just get rid of the gold wheels and it'll look perfect. Nice find and very interesting story.

Is the factory build sheet wrong.....I think so, after I read this article again,

http://img167.imageshack.us/img167/9760/p1270024to4.th.jpg (http://img167.imageshack.us/my.php?image=p1270024to4.jpg)(once open, click again)

Go to paragraph 5, then check the date. This issue would have a print deadline around mid Febuary 95. So if this brown/pink shade of car was a talking point at this time. That makes the Creighton Brown colour chassis 029. Interesting to read it was built for a customer in Japan.

Erik, Please check the interior colour again, on that car under the Enzo on the lift. Since when did the TAG Heuer car have a brown interior?

So this must make #039 brazilian brown metallic, which makes sense when comparing the colours in the pics that have been posted. Which had not been built by this issue date. This I worked out, as I know the production dates, of all the GTR,s.

Is the factory build sheet wrong.....I think so, after I read this article again,

http://img167.imageshack.us/img167/9760/p1270024to4.th.jpg (http://img167.imageshack.us/my.php?image=p1270024to4.jpg)(once open, click again)

Go to paragraph 5, then check the date. This issue would have a print deadline around mid Febuary 95. So if this brown/pink shade of car was a talking point at this time. That makes the Creighton Brown colour chassis 029. Interesting to read it was built for a customer in Japan.

Erik, Please check the interior colour again, on that car under the Enzo on the lift. Since when did the TAG Heuer car have a brown interior?

So this must make #039 brazilian brown metallic, which makes sense when comparing the colours in the pics that have been posted. Which had not been built by this issue date. This I worked out, as I know the production dates, of all the GTR,s.

Great find, and this makes sound reasoning too....

This changes everything... possibly. :wink:

McLaren being wrong about something is definitely a theory I could get my head around. :grinyes: Us being wrong about something is also a possibility. :uhoh:

Actually, I think you are on to something for sure. If your current assumption proves to be correct, and the car at Iding Power is not #012, then here's another photo of it showing the brown interior, previously believed to be #012 taken at a Japan Motorsport Festival (year unknown).

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v482/Peloton25/McLaren%20F1%20D/JMSF_004.jpg

I will add though that the Minichamps 1/43rd scale TAG-Heuer F1 has a tan interior. :p

Another thing that supports your theory is that I'm fairly certain the original owner of the "Aubergine" car (#016) was tied to Iding Power (probably it's owner, Mr Ide) and that color is one of the most unique you will find. Maybe he decided to trade up to something different, but still wanted a very unique color? :dunno:

I also have to say that I will be disappointed if the car spotted at Iding Power is not #012 as that will mean that car is now MIA again. :frown:

>8^)
ER

found this at E46fanatic forum.

original LM? Tey say its from Shk Salman in Dubai...

http://img144.imagevenue.com/loc251/th_30166_n503950512132426790iu8_122_251lo.jpg (http://img144.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=30166_n503950512132426790iu8_122_251 lo.jpg)

found this at E46fanatic forum.

original LM? They say its from Shk Salman in Dubai...

http://img144.imagevenue.com/loc251/th_30166_n503950512132426790iu8_122_251lo.jpg (http://img144.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=30166_n503950512132426790iu8_122_251 lo.jpg)

an LM Wannabee - GTR conversion - possibly #04R as that has been seen over there (off another BMW forum) -
http://img165.imagevenue.com/loc236/th_30904_photo_427_122_236lo.jpg (http://img165.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=30904_photo_427_122_236lo.jpg)http://img136.imagevenue.com/loc45/th_30909_photo_426_122_45lo.jpg (http://img136.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=30909_photo_426_122_45lo.jpg)http://img173.imagevenue.com/loc220/th_30914_004R_trying_to_be_an_LM_122_220lo.jpg (http://img173.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=30914_004R_trying_to_be_an_LM_122_22 0lo.jpg)

...possibly #04R

More than likely #08R now. I was basing the original assumption it was #04R off the similarities to the former West Adrenalie Taxi which Le Man was later able to prove had been #08R when he posted some magazine scans.

It's definitely not an LM as real LMs do not have a fuel tank opening on the right side C-pillar. You'll only find those on the GTRs.

>8^)
ER