I don't know anyone with a lifted X...there don't seem to be many options...I think Rancho, Calmini and AC?

Anybody with experience in these three, or others...with any insights?

I am mostly interested in improving articulation...the IFS is a real weak link in the suspension...and T Bar torque-ing alone will destroy what little flex is left I am afraid.

How much front suspension travel can these things add?

Lance,

You will gain some articulation from the lifts. But I believe most of the articulation gain will come from disconnecting the sway bars as I understand it. When some of our rock crawlers return from GOX, they can give you a better overview of it than I can. Here in Florida there ain't too many rocks to crawl.

I could disco the sway's with or without a lift...and extend vent/brake lines, etc...I'm thinking that other than disco/lines...the stock droop limits would be the shock lengths first...and the length of the arms second?

Compression would still be limited by the wheel well, so that's a body lift solution....Its droop to keep the tire on terra firma that needs improvement...way too much tire hang time going on.

I'm a live axle guy....this IFS stuff is new to me mod-wise....I can't see extra droop w/o longer arms...and then I have trouble with the resultant geometry unless the pivot points are moved to compensate...Taller, that's straightfoward enough...but droop from the new height...looks about the same total travel as droop from the OEM height?

I guess I'll have to wait for the hard-core mod-gods to return. ;)

You probably already know this but the SLR (I stated AC earlier) lift includes a 3/4" drop for the front diff to relieve half shaft angles a bit. The question I have about that one is the long term effect of the material SLR uses. The stock diff mount is encased in rubber (this is a guess) but the SLR replaces that stock "center bored" rubber ring with a Delron 3/4" offset bored block. My question is what will be the long term effect of replacing an obviously shock absorbing material (rubber) with a strong as steel, non-flexable material like Delron?

Originally posted by ned946
You probably already know this but the AC lift includes a 3/4" drop for the front diff to relieve half shaft angles a bit.

Just an FYI, the SLR kit is the one that includes the diff drop, not the AC kit.

Also, I measured, the replacement AC a-arms added 2" of wheel downtravel all told (before shocks were reattached, utilizing stock bumpstops) on my truck. This yields about 9.5" front wheel travel all told. (Yes, IFS sucks...)

You could replace the upper bumpstop with a low-profile version for more downtravel, but I wouldn't...the CV shaft angles are getting pretty steep as it is. You would also need to find longer shocks (the ones everyone is using, Bilstein 1099's and/or Rancho 9188's) only have about 1/10" left of travel when the upper a-arm fully compresses the upper bumpstop.

Thanks Goth!

9.5", damn....well, only a half inch less than a stock Jeep with its sway's still on...:rolleyes:

OK...at least it's 1.5" more than a stock sway connected Jeep Liberty!

It looks dismal then, doesn't it...?

Maybe effort to keep the bottom smooth and catch free/high as possible, and the big bore rubber route will be the way to go...

So - What'll need to go to fit 35's?

The fenders?

;)

Originally posted by Lance
So - What'll need to go to fit 35's?


The IFS. :D

Seriously, I think that 35's, while mighty tempting, are going to snap CV joints pretty often...I've had my eye on the new 35x10.50 Swamper SSR's, but I'd need to do some pretty hefty fender trimming to pull them off (not to mention regearing...and with R&P's for our axles still running $400+ per diff, that's a distant proposition.)

After MT and I put in the SLR shackles last winter, I ramped my Xterra on the 30 degree ramp at Skid-Row. This is with no swaybars attached, but a stock front end (stock shocks, bumpstops, a-arms.) Running Rancho 9116's in the back.
http://www.4x4lo.com/mods/shackle_install/articulation1.jpg

I really need to get my truck on a ramp again, just to see how much further I can get. The red mark you see on the ramp is the height that a near-stock YJ (w/ no swaybars) got to. It'd be nice to get the X to at least match that...

Thanks Goth! :D

Looks to be around a 300 - 400 RTI (30º) from here?

Take some before/after shots of the parts you cut off when you throw those swampers on!

;)

Looks like everything outside of the frame rails goes in the hopper....hmmmm....maybe 35 x12.5's if there's no fenders....an inch less backspacing....BWAHAHAHAHAHA! :frog:


My wife would try to kill me, even if I had a sawzall in my hand in the driveway.....:(

I can tell you one thing you would need for sure with 35's, and that is more hp. You can regear til doomsday, the extra leverage with the 35's in place will be hard on the puny little 170 hp motor in the X. If you can increase the power to weight ratio to 16 or below, you should be able to turn the 35's efficiently enough with the 4.60/1 rp. 4.60 is a pretty stout ratio, if we were running V8s our trucks would make awesome mud and sand runners.

Well I thought that I would throw in a couple of pennies into the mix here.

IMO you will not gain ANY travel in the IFS whatsoever with the current lifts available. All the a-arms do is allow correct factory alignment when the wheel is pushed down from the original position set from the factory. If you want extended travel with what you have you will need lower profile bumpstops(worthless IMO) or redo the entire front end with porsche 930 cv, custom axles, custom uca & lca.

I believe the kits give you better articulation because of the "added spring" to the t-bars. Forces the wheel down and keeps it there, while the uppper can still be stuffed becuase of vehicle weight.

In the back it is pretty simple to get more travel. Longer shocks, aal, shackles, a new spring pack, revolvers, yadda yadda you already know this :p .

As far as 35's are concerned there are alot of Hardbody owners that do run these even with 4 bangers. Sure they are slugs but they have regeard them with the lowest gears available to them(or highest, you know what I mean:finger: ) Until AC or somebody comes up with some reinforced steering I probably won't go any bigger than what I'm currently running now on my truck. Too many broken tie-rods and screwed up CL in this last year alone. I have the old vg30, the old power to weight ratio thing plus my truck only has the 4.3xx r&p for now. So I have quite a few things I need to get done over the winter. When all is said and done I will probably run 33x12.50 SSR's. Should be a happy medium for me.

Until somebody comes out with a lift like the Trailmaster on the Trucks/old pathy, the only way I can see running 35's would be with a sawzall:D <---- go for it!!
I can already see it though. As soon as somebody comes out with the drop kit everybody will be bitching about the lowered t-bars(I do!) That is why I'm trying to figure out a coil-over solution to get rid of the t-bars.

Anyway you guys should pull together and get a group of people willing to buy a drop kit from Trailmaster or whoever. Our front ends have quite a bit of similarities, but definatley different. Anyway I don't think it would take that much for TM to modify their kit for you guys.

Anyway....... just rambling now.

So....we cut off the fenders, and use the exposed frame rails to wrap a giant rubber band...we twist it up on the down hills....and use it for passing/uphill power....and chug along letting the 170 HP turn those 35's at what ever leisurely rate we can manage...:)

Wait...I have it....A REALLY BIG WINCH! With A Sheet Load of Cable! :frog:


Wait, we'll need to re-gear the winch too....too slow on the highway....

An OVERDRIVE WINCH!!!!


That's it! We spend the money mod-ing up the winch....Hmmm...We'll need some serious alternator capacity...maybe even dual batteries.... ;)

Maybe a flatbed truck, and we can just use it to haul the monster meated X to the trail heads?

Jeez, this was so much easier to do on the jeeps...I miss live axles.



:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :crying: :crying:

Originally posted by an1malch1n
IMO you will not gain ANY travel in the IFS whatsoever with the current lifts available. All the a-arms do is allow correct factory alignment when the wheel is pushed down from the original position set from the factory. If you want extended travel with what you have you will need lower profile bumpstops(worthless IMO) or redo the entire front end with porsche 930 cv, custom axles, custom uca & lca.

I believe the kits give you better articulation because of the "added spring" to the t-bars. Forces the wheel down and keeps it there, while the uppper can still be stuffed becuase of vehicle weight.


You have some interesting theories, but (and don't take this the wrong way), I'm pretty sure you're wrong on a number of points up above. First of all, the IFS lifts we're talking about DO add travel, specifically downtravel, while keeping the amount of uptravel the same...granted, it doesn't add up to solid-axle levels of travel, but when you have 7" of front wheel travel stock, every little bit helps.

The lifts add travel because the upper a-arm is offset from the hinge point (where it bolts to the frame), so it can allow for more wheel travel (and a steeper lower control arm angle) before the upper a-arm hits the upper bumpstop. A lower profile bumpstop would allow you a smidgen more travel, but I agree, for us it's not really worth the effort until we deal with the CV shafts. I have thought about messing with that, but honestly, at that level of custom fabrication, why not just go the SAS route?

Originally posted by Lance
...maybe even dual batteries.... ;)

BTW, there are two Optimas in my engine compartment right now. :)

(Finishing installation this weekend, should have pics up early next week...batteries *are* mounted though, just need to extend the wiring for my compressor and aux lights to the Yellow Top, and mount the isolator.)

Goth, you sneaky devil you.....obviously you have been planning the super overdrive winch for some time now, carefully building towards your final objective...

I like those gel cells, much better when I roll over and they don't spill battery acid all over...I hate when that happens.


We'll want pics of the 5,000 amp alternator and 30,000 foot winch cable spool too....

;)

Actually - Are You Doing one yellow/one red?

I already had the Yellow Top (bought it new last April for a whopping $95 shipped), so I picked up a Red Top for starting purposes. I have a lot of lights (~1000 watts), plus a QuickAir2 compressor underhood, and I hope to add a winch soon, so the Yellow Top is for them, the Red is for starting and the main truck electrical.

Originally posted by gothamist


The lifts add travel because the upper a-arm is offset from the hinge point (where it bolts to the frame), so it can allow for more wheel travel (and a steeper lower control arm angle) before the upper a-arm hits the upper bumpstop.

Hey goth definatley not taken the wrong way!:) I do however respectfully still disagree. The only reason why the different angles on the a-arm is for alignment purposes. I do have the AC arms and have been using them for quite a while. While I understand that we both have different vehicles the purpose is the same. The only way to actually gain travel with this type of "lift" would be if the arm itself was longer, but then again it would all need to be extended, lower arm, axle, yadda yadda.

I did a little experiment when I put my lift on. I disconnected the shock and swaybar. Then I took a measuring tape to the top of the fender to the ground running by the center of the hub. Then as closely as I could measure the travel of each a-arm. Both came up with aprox 7.125 inches of travel. Again the limiting factor was the bumpstops. That is why I believe the angle of the arm is nothing more than to correct alignment and ball joint angles. Regardless of what each company says they achieve this is what I achieved in my own little experiment. Could it be flawed, I suppose, and if so please point it out, cuz tommorrow I need to reindex my t-bars AGAIN!!:( So maybe if you could come up with something different than I could try it again tommorrow!
So if you have any ideas shoot em my way!

Originally posted by an1malch1n
I did a little experiment when I put my lift on. I disconnected the shock and swaybar. Then I took a measuring tape to the top of the fender. Then as closely as I could measure the travel of each a-arm. Both came up with aprox 7.125 inches of travel.

That's funny, cause I did *almost* the same thing on my truck. I disconnected both shocks (swaybar was disco'd already) and compared the droop on both sides after one side had the AC a-arm in and the other side was still stock...the side w/ the AC upper a-arm installed drooped a good 2.5" more (hence the travel numbers I came up with...) Both the upper a-arms were resting on the (squished) upper bumpstop, but there was visibly more distance to the lower bumpstop from the side w/ the AC a-arm. <shrug>

I think we agree to disagree. :)

Originally posted by gothamist


I think we agree to disagree. :)

Ditto! That's pretty funny we both did the same thing! Oh I forgot to mention that my swabar was chucked a long time ago so I forgot to mention that. BUT it doesn't matter anyhow!
Since our vehicles are different maybe we are both right!:D

We have about 7" for one disco'd, and 9.5" disco'd for the other....one of you is either measuring too optimistically, or too conservatively?

I mean, if I have to choose between 7" and 9.5" for myself, I'd go with the 9.5" given a choice...not just for the truck either.... :)

Maybe the 7" needs one of those enlargement thingies? A bumpstop ectomy? Measuring from different travel reference points?


OOOoops! You have different trucks! I forgot that! One truck is longer travel than the other by nature...


Maybe I'll find a free live axle with an ARB in it laying around somewhere?


(And then we can work up that coil over shock set up....) ;)

Hey Lance I'll tell you what if I can get 9.5" that would be sweet. That is a HUGE difference.
Goth now has a total of 19" compared to my 14"+ total travel maxed out!
I tell you what if you find a 76-77 Bronce D44 laying around you better find one for me also;)

I went out side, and do you believe it? I saw Not ONE, Not TWO, But ZERO Bronco axles just sitting there at the curb!

I'll look again tomorrow....

I went out side, and do you believe it? I saw Not ONE, Not TWO, But ZERO Bronco front D44 axles just sitting there at the curb!

I'll look again tomorrow....


I mean, there's those damn rear D44's laying all over....but no fronts....:(