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88 ninety eight touring can't find fuel pump relay..HELP!


Nicci
10-15-2006, 07:49 PM
I have a 1988 Oldsmobile ninety eight touring sedan with a 3800 engine with automatic transmission. I have had this car 6 years. I know that the Touring sedan is like the ninety eight regency, but am having problems finding things. My service manual shows the fuel pump relay on the firewall. It's not there! There is no wire by the battery to check to see if the relay has failed. The problem is the car will crank but will not start. I want to make sure it is the fuel pump before going through the trouble of dropping the full gas tank. I found that there is an anti syphon screen, so that has been a problem as well. I saw a post from someone with the same car and if anyone can tell me where the fuel pump relay is and what number the fuel pump fuse is I would greatly appreciate it. It seems the fancier model made it where they had to move things around to fit it all in.

Thanks
Nicole

1988 Olds 98 Touring Sedan
2001 Mazda MPV
1978 Silver Anniversary Corvette
1972 VW Super Beetle

Alibi
10-15-2006, 11:58 PM
Welcome to AF :)

The relay center ought to be behind the glovebox on the passenger side. The easiest way to access it is to remove the lower hush panel (8mm screws and a couple wingnut-things. There should be a sticker on the lip of the hush panel telling you what relay/fuse goes to what.

Is your service manual factory GM? Chiltons/Haynes manulas are too vague as they cover several years worth of designs of a particular car.

As for changes in the trim level of the car, they are mostly cosmetic. Sometimes they involve nicer suspension packages or added electrical doo-dads (extra horns, automatic climate control, sun roof, air level, etc) but otherwise the basic car is identical to the base model.

Nicci
10-16-2006, 12:26 PM
Thanks for the response. The manual I have is a Haynes, and yes there is a very broad range of years and different models. I have been looking for a factory service manual, but can't locate one. My husband and father have been working on the car, and there are 2 relays in the location you spoke of. I guess the sticker is incorrect on the hush panel. There are 20 amp fuses and my father said the one that said it was for the fuel pump was only a 5 amp fuse. That wouldn't have worked if it was wrong, right? I don't know why this car is so confusing. The wiring diagrams are showing different colors than are actually in the engine. That makes it even harder. Thanks for the reply, I forwarded it to my father to see if they can figure out which of the 2 it may be. If you have any other information please let me know.
Thanks

Nicole

Alibi
10-16-2006, 09:29 PM
:) I have GM service manuals, compliments of Ebay. For a complete set, expect to spend around $100...but if you just want the basic service manual, then it is somewhere around 20-25.

The Haynes manual is (almost) trash. Its good for very basic stuff and a few things that were the same throughout the years of H and C body cars with 3800s... specifics like wiring are going to be useless most of the time.

I'll see if I can find a diagram in one of my manuals...unfortunately, the only manual I don't have is the electrical one :(

Edit: I just checked the stickers on my car. Right column, second relay down is the horn, third relay down is the fuel pump.

Fuses: Second row down, first fuse (left to right) is 15 amp (couldn't read function), second is 20amp for fuel pump, third is 10amp for the injectors (I think).

I can get the rest for you if you need them, but I don't believe you will. If you need anything else, just ask :)

Nicci
10-17-2006, 09:28 AM
thanks for your help! I sent the information from yesterday to my father and he said he didn't check the place you were talking about. I will forward the fuse and relay information as well. I am hoping the problem is the relay instead of the fuel pump :)

Fuel pump seems like a lot of work, not to mention the fact we had just filled the tank. I will let you know if I need more help. I appreciate your time.

Thank you
Nicole

Alibi
10-17-2006, 06:06 PM
Before you replace the fuel pump, you should replace the fuel filter (those only last 10k miles you know) and check the fuel pressure regulator as well. If both of those check out OK, then do a compression test on the fuel rail's scrader valve. You should have around 40psi of pressure from the fuel pump and if not then the pump is either weak or dead :(

And if you do end up replacing the pump, don't get a really cheap one. You don't wan't to be replacinig it again a few thousand miles down the road. ALso, the nicer pumps don't make as much noise.

You should be able to find how to test the fuel pressure regulalator by searching the forums, if not then I think I can prolly find a post that explains it well enough or in one of my manuals.

Good luck, and post if you need anything else :)

89oldsregancy
10-18-2006, 09:59 PM
hey before you go through with all thst did u make shure the coil pack isnt shorted out or fried

Nicci
10-20-2006, 10:36 PM
under the hush panel there are two rows down 4 fuses wide left to right. To the right of the fuse panel are the relays again two rows. Top row has 3 relays (black) bottom row has four black square relays. I didn't expect to see that many. I can't figure out which relay you meant for the fuel pump. I wish I could draw a picture of what I see. My dad is coming over tomorrow. Hopefully he can figure it out. Thanks for your help. If you can figure out what I am saying, let me know which relay you think it is.
Thanks
Nicole

Nicci
10-20-2006, 10:44 PM
:) I have GM service manuals, compliments of Ebay. For a complete set, expect to spend around $100...but if you just want the basic service manual, then it is somewhere around 20-25.

The Haynes manual is (almost) trash. Its good for very basic stuff and a few things that were the same throughout the years of H and C body cars with 3800s... specifics like wiring are going to be useless most of the time.

I'll see if I can find a diagram in one of my manuals...unfortunately, the only manual I don't have is the electrical one :(

Edit: I just checked the stickers on my car. Right column, second relay down is the horn, third relay down is the fuel pump.

Fuses: Second row down, first fuse (left to right) is 15 amp (couldn't read function), second is 20amp for fuel pump, third is 10amp for the injectors (I think).

I can get the rest for you if you need them, but I don't believe you will. If you need anything else, just ask :)

:banghead: There are 7 relays under there!! Two rows, top row is 3 across, bottom row is 4 relays across... I can't figure out which one that would be. I didn't expect to find 7. The fuses looked fine. Thanks for your help. I can't get the hush panel all the way off, so it is making it difficult. I wish I could draw a diagram of the relays. They are directly to the right of the fuses. In two rows like the fuses. If you can help me I would appreciate it. We are going to go check all the relays in the morning and see if any are bad.
Thanks
Nicole

Mickey#1
10-21-2006, 07:59 PM
This is the relay center layout for 88-90 Bonnevilles. If your Olds is similar there should be 2 rows with room for 5 in each row. Not all locations are used on most models. Fuel pump relay is in the same location on 88-93 Pontiac Bonnevilles, 92-93 Olds 88 & 88-93 Buick Lesabre. Fuel pump relay fuse is #6 on this relay center. Hopefully the fuse & relay on your Olds 98 is in the same location.


http://www.photochimps.com/gallery/data/569/FPR.jpg

Nicci
10-22-2006, 12:48 AM
Thanks for the diagram! It was nice to be able to see something. We checked the relay and fuse and they are fine. Against my suggestions my husband and father decided to drop the gas tank without testing anything. The fuel pump ran. The fuel filter was clogged. Once we put the tank back on the car started for a bit then died again. There was gas coming out the pressure valve on the fuel rail. So then we thought, the regulator. Well, we replaced the regulator and now we aren't even getting the fuel coming out of the pressure valve on the rail anymore. We are having battery problems. It is weak and needs to be replaced. I wonder if that is the reason it is not getting enough fuel pressure.

Thanks for everyones help. Right now, it seems it will take a miracle to figure it out. The guys are going to do what they want, even if it wastes time. They will figure it out eventually. If anyone thinks they might know what is going on, I appreciate any input.

Nicole

maxwedge
10-22-2006, 08:11 AM
Thanks for the diagram! It was nice to be able to see something. We checked the relay and fuse and they are fine. Against my suggestions my husband and father decided to drop the gas tank without testing anything. The fuel pump ran. The fuel filter was clogged. Once we put the tank back on the car started for a bit then died again. There was gas coming out the pressure valve on the fuel rail. So then we thought, the regulator. Well, we replaced the regulator and now we aren't even getting the fuel coming out of the pressure valve on the rail anymore. We are having battery problems. It is weak and needs to be replaced. I wonder if that is the reason it is not getting enough fuel pressure.

Thanks for everyones help. Right now, it seems it will take a miracle to figure it out. The guys are going to do what they want, even if it wastes time. They will figure it out eventually. If anyone thinks they might know what is going on, I appreciate any input.

Nicole Replace the battery, then get a pressure gage on the test port and verify there is enough to run the car, basic diagnostics.

Mickey#1
10-22-2006, 08:21 AM
Sounds like they're making some progress on narrowing this problem down. If the battery has enough power to turn the engine over it should be able to run the fuel pump. Jump starting the car would rule out the battery. Make sure all the battery cable connections are clean & tight. Check both ends of all battery cables.

So they dropped the tank & determined that the fuel pump works. Was the pump running with the car's wiring harness or did they run 'jumper' wires to the pump?

If they ran jumper wires then you're not getting power to the fuel pump. Frequently this is caused by a corroded ground buss under the carpeting. There are some good pictures of the ground buss in this thread at [b]****Edited Out by Moderator**** t=62513"][CAgain, this is for a Bonneville hopefully your car is similar.

BNaylor
10-23-2006, 11:05 AM
Sounds like they're making some progress on narrowing this problem down. If the battery has enough power to turn the engine over it should be able to run the fuel pump. Jump starting the car would rule out the battery. Make sure all the battery cable connections are clean & tight. Check both ends of all battery cables.

So they dropped the tank & determined that the fuel pump works. Was the pump running with the car's wiring harness or did they run 'jumper' wires to the pump?

If they ran jumper wires then you're not getting power to the fuel pump. Frequently this is caused by a corroded ground buss under the carpeting. There are some good pictures of the ground buss in this thread at ****Edited Out by Moderator**** http://www.bonnevilleclub.com/forum/...ic.php?t=62513 (http://www.bonnevilleclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=62513) Again, this is for a Bonneville hopefully your car is similar.



Mickey#1,

Sorry but that reference to another competing automotive forum has been edited out since it will take you to a registration page. However, we will allow the link to a tech procedure or thread at another automotive forum as long as the information is relevant, the same issue and helps the AF member.

We have new rules pertaining to promoting and referencing other automotive forums and the community guidelines will be updated to reflect that.

Mickey#1
10-23-2006, 02:45 PM
The link was relevant but it must default to the registration page if you're not a member. Sorry about that!

BNaylor
10-23-2006, 03:57 PM
The link was relevant but it must default to the registration page if you're not a member. Sorry about that!

Just to clarify the link was fine. The part edited out was a general reference to another automotive forum web site address/url such www.otherautomotiveforum.com. <--This is not acceptable because when keyed in or copied and pasted it will take a person to the main page of that respective forum which has member registration.

All I do is enforce the rules, I didn't write them. :dunno:

Mickey#1
10-23-2006, 05:43 PM
Thanks for clearing that up. I was confused because the link had also been edited out. Looking again I see it was edited by Maxwedge. Unfortunately that leaves me still confused.

BNaylor
10-23-2006, 05:52 PM
Thanks for clearing that up. I was confused because the link had also been edited out. Looking again I see it was edited by Maxwedge. Unfortunately that leaves me still confused.

Probably a misunderstanding since he edited the link after I weighed-in. I'll talk to him about it.

The link below is acceptable:
http://www.bonnevilleclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=62513

Another example is this is fine which points to a detailed tech procedure.
http://www.clubgp.com/cgi-asp/mods.asp?modid=34

Sorry for the confusion.

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