Electric Supercharger!!!!!!omg...
dangerranger02
09-03-2002, 01:45 PM
:smoka: yep, finally people who have a budget can get an affordable supercharger...yes, you heard right, no i'm not a vendor, and i'm not selling them, but i was browsing ebay the other day and I found an electric supercharger, i'm posting this to see if anyone has ever tried it, it only costs $50 and runs off of a 12 volt battery, it connects through your air intake tube(3") and has a switch for you to turn it on and off inside your vehicle, it's for ALL fuel injected engines, i just about freaked when i saw that it increases your HP 15%!!! omg, lol, anyways, the price is unbelievable, and get this...it pushes 240cfm! another plus, this baby is a pvc turbine, looks like a jet motor, it's light and very powerful, but simple and easy to install... my questions? --------> has anyone ever used these superchargers? what type of increase in hp did you obtain? and was this increase noticable?
and oh, if you are interested, or would like to just even check this baby out, please email me.... dangerranger02@aol.com :devil: now what civic? the DANGER RANGER is gonna stomp you! :flipa:
and oh, if you are interested, or would like to just even check this baby out, please email me.... dangerranger02@aol.com :devil: now what civic? the DANGER RANGER is gonna stomp you! :flipa:
DVSNCYNIKL
09-03-2002, 02:30 PM
Just my .02, I wouldn't buy it, no matter how cheap they offer it.
so-cali
09-16-2002, 01:38 AM
the real deal with this shit is that they will not increase hp %15. they will not add hardly any psi. they are actually pieces of shit that you can buy for less than $30 if you know where to look. dont get pulled into the scam. the claims they make on hp are laughable. a decntly made turbo or supercharger made out of cast-iron and powered by the exhaust or crankshaft are considered pretty damn good if they can increase hp by more than 40. this is a piece of plastic hooked up to a 12 volt battery making a pathetic attempt to force air into an engine.
im not gonna stop anyone from buying them... just be warned that you will be sadly dissapointed in performance gains if you think it can hold a candle anywhere near a real turbo or supercharger
im not gonna stop anyone from buying them... just be warned that you will be sadly dissapointed in performance gains if you think it can hold a candle anywhere near a real turbo or supercharger
PortChop81
10-12-2002, 09:57 PM
Don't buy these things. If the fan inside breaks, u get little plastic pieces from the fan going into your engine.
sol 2000
02-28-2003, 05:55 PM
dont buy it , if you want one , check out any boat and marine shop online and type in bilge fan, its like 20 bucks and the EXACT same product!
gclay
03-24-2003, 01:31 PM
There is a well known scam of selling "Bilge fans" as electric super/turbo chargers......
It's a SCAM the only valid Electrric supercharger is an extremely expensive experimental model that is not on the market.
Buy yourself some "Stickers" or "Cool lights" or chrome exhaust tips, they will do more to speed up your car than these phony "superchargers"
In fact, They often actually slow down cars if the thottle body capacity exceeds the ability of this "bilge fan"
It's a SCAM the only valid Electrric supercharger is an extremely expensive experimental model that is not on the market.
Buy yourself some "Stickers" or "Cool lights" or chrome exhaust tips, they will do more to speed up your car than these phony "superchargers"
In fact, They often actually slow down cars if the thottle body capacity exceeds the ability of this "bilge fan"
sol 2000
03-24-2003, 06:40 PM
man- these are not bilge fans! its definetly not used to suck gas fumes out of boats! these are real- if you dont believe me i will e-mail you pix. the company claims they produce 2 psi( i tested to be 1.7 psi) still is good these spin 23000 rpm under load- bilge fans spin like 5000 or something. bilge fans also produce no psi- theyre meant to suck out fumes not push air under pressure. these units also releive 1.5 engine h.g. ( witch is vaccuum since you seem to be uneducated about these) and i dyno the twin units at thirty horsepower on my del sol vtec. twin means i had two hookd up. i have also owened a e-ram and that is a e-scam. i got MAYBE 5 h.p. at the most! this company hand makes the motors and theres thirteen different colors to choose from check out
http://www.breakdancecrew.com/streetfreakz or email
http://www.Wwalkerfrks@aol.com-peace
http://www.breakdancecrew.com/streetfreakz or email
http://www.Wwalkerfrks@aol.com-peace
gclay
03-25-2003, 06:28 AM
Sol 2000. I would appreciate any OBJECTIVE information you could provide relating to the electric supercharger.
I do understand boost. I also understan carburation and fuel injection. Most of my experience is with V8 engines, so I don't know the numbers for 4 & 6 cylinder rice burners.
A medium sized 4 bbl carburetor will draw 650 cfm of air via the intake stroke of and engine. Any Supercharger or Turbo charger, in order to to provide "boost" must be able to push orders of magnatude more air at higher pressure that the 'Normally aspirated" draw of the carburatror (or thottle body of a fuel injected car). In order to do this, the supercharger draws many horsepower off from the crank, and the turbo charger draws many horsepower off from the exhaust.
Do you know what even a 1 horespower electric motor looks like? THe size of the electric motor necessary to generate significant boost under power is prohibitice. ALso each horspower of electric motor will pull about 700 watts of electric power. At 12 volts, this is almos 60 amps of power. THis would seriosly tax any charging system. Also, unless the voltage is stupped up, you would needheavy duty wires, like you see going to the starter.
Therefor, I am still skeptical, even though somebody may have made some minor improvements on the "bilge motor" and marketing it as something different.
Again, Times are always changing, and there are always new engineering solutions being developed, so I will welcome any objective information, provided by some group who has twsted this thing independently, and will hush my mouth if this thing proves to be as usefull as a 'Real' supercharger
I do understand boost. I also understan carburation and fuel injection. Most of my experience is with V8 engines, so I don't know the numbers for 4 & 6 cylinder rice burners.
A medium sized 4 bbl carburetor will draw 650 cfm of air via the intake stroke of and engine. Any Supercharger or Turbo charger, in order to to provide "boost" must be able to push orders of magnatude more air at higher pressure that the 'Normally aspirated" draw of the carburatror (or thottle body of a fuel injected car). In order to do this, the supercharger draws many horsepower off from the crank, and the turbo charger draws many horsepower off from the exhaust.
Do you know what even a 1 horespower electric motor looks like? THe size of the electric motor necessary to generate significant boost under power is prohibitice. ALso each horspower of electric motor will pull about 700 watts of electric power. At 12 volts, this is almos 60 amps of power. THis would seriosly tax any charging system. Also, unless the voltage is stupped up, you would needheavy duty wires, like you see going to the starter.
Therefor, I am still skeptical, even though somebody may have made some minor improvements on the "bilge motor" and marketing it as something different.
Again, Times are always changing, and there are always new engineering solutions being developed, so I will welcome any objective information, provided by some group who has twsted this thing independently, and will hush my mouth if this thing proves to be as usefull as a 'Real' supercharger
zanick
04-03-2003, 05:56 PM
I just joined this list after seeing all the posts regarding the eRAM.
If you forget all the bogus products out there that do not work, and have no business of working for many reasons, you will see that the eRAM's concepts are based on solid physics and automotive engineering
Here are the specs.
908cfm (measured on a flow bench)
13volts
3lbs of thrust (shown on the video)
24,000rpm
1psi net change in intake pressure with use of the eRAM on WOT
5% hp gains as seen on many cars , measured by a rear wheel (or front wheel ) dyno jet 248e.
Use by a pro racing team for over 4 years, with no issues. On several club racer's cars that have been dynoed and are also used on the street.
dont confuse the flow rating of a carburetor , with the requirements of an engine. its related to its size, and generally, a 5 liter engine will draw close to 500cfm at 6000rpm. you can divde this for your engines output.
1hp motors can exist in the size that we are using. they are expensive and made to Military type specs. (rare earth magnets, all cnc machined aluminum parts, etc) The eRAM works only at WOT, so the duty cyle is pretty low, so we can hit the motor hard for short durations. at a track like laguna, even a top driver will only be on the WOT for 40 seconds a lap, on a 1:40 second lap. drag racing only takes less than 15-16 seconds , (or less!)
The 10hp gains we got on several porsche 911s , on top of the 200hp rear wheel that we tested , was real and done by an independent dyno shop, and club racer!
If you have any questions, I would be happy to address them.
Mark Kibort
eRACING
SpeedGT #19
www.electricsupercharger.com
www.928trackcars.com/kibort/
Originally posted by gclay
Sol 2000. I would appreciate any OBJECTIVE information you could provide relating to the electric supercharger.
I do understand boost. I also understan carburation and fuel injection. Most of my experience is with V8 engines, so I don't know the numbers for 4 & 6 cylinder rice burners.
A medium sized 4 bbl carburetor will draw 650 cfm of air via the intake stroke of and engine. Any Supercharger or Turbo charger, in order to to provide "boost" must be able to push orders of magnatude more air at higher pressure that the 'Normally aspirated" draw of the carburatror (or thottle body of a fuel injected car). In order to do this, the supercharger draws many horsepower off from the crank, and the turbo charger draws many horsepower off from the exhaust.
Do you know what even a 1 horespower electric motor looks like? THe size of the electric motor necessary to generate significant boost under power is prohibitice. ALso each horspower of electric motor will pull about 700 watts of electric power. At 12 volts, this is almos 60 amps of power. THis would seriosly tax any charging system. Also, unless the voltage is stupped up, you would needheavy duty wires, like you see going to the starter.
Therefor, I am still skeptical, even though somebody may have made some minor improvements on the "bilge motor" and marketing it as something different.
Again, Times are always changing, and there are always new engineering solutions being developed, so I will welcome any objective information, provided by some group who has twsted this thing independently, and will hush my mouth if this thing proves to be as usefull as a 'Real' supercharger
If you forget all the bogus products out there that do not work, and have no business of working for many reasons, you will see that the eRAM's concepts are based on solid physics and automotive engineering
Here are the specs.
908cfm (measured on a flow bench)
13volts
3lbs of thrust (shown on the video)
24,000rpm
1psi net change in intake pressure with use of the eRAM on WOT
5% hp gains as seen on many cars , measured by a rear wheel (or front wheel ) dyno jet 248e.
Use by a pro racing team for over 4 years, with no issues. On several club racer's cars that have been dynoed and are also used on the street.
dont confuse the flow rating of a carburetor , with the requirements of an engine. its related to its size, and generally, a 5 liter engine will draw close to 500cfm at 6000rpm. you can divde this for your engines output.
1hp motors can exist in the size that we are using. they are expensive and made to Military type specs. (rare earth magnets, all cnc machined aluminum parts, etc) The eRAM works only at WOT, so the duty cyle is pretty low, so we can hit the motor hard for short durations. at a track like laguna, even a top driver will only be on the WOT for 40 seconds a lap, on a 1:40 second lap. drag racing only takes less than 15-16 seconds , (or less!)
The 10hp gains we got on several porsche 911s , on top of the 200hp rear wheel that we tested , was real and done by an independent dyno shop, and club racer!
If you have any questions, I would be happy to address them.
Mark Kibort
eRACING
SpeedGT #19
www.electricsupercharger.com
www.928trackcars.com/kibort/
Originally posted by gclay
Sol 2000. I would appreciate any OBJECTIVE information you could provide relating to the electric supercharger.
I do understand boost. I also understan carburation and fuel injection. Most of my experience is with V8 engines, so I don't know the numbers for 4 & 6 cylinder rice burners.
A medium sized 4 bbl carburetor will draw 650 cfm of air via the intake stroke of and engine. Any Supercharger or Turbo charger, in order to to provide "boost" must be able to push orders of magnatude more air at higher pressure that the 'Normally aspirated" draw of the carburatror (or thottle body of a fuel injected car). In order to do this, the supercharger draws many horsepower off from the crank, and the turbo charger draws many horsepower off from the exhaust.
Do you know what even a 1 horespower electric motor looks like? THe size of the electric motor necessary to generate significant boost under power is prohibitice. ALso each horspower of electric motor will pull about 700 watts of electric power. At 12 volts, this is almos 60 amps of power. THis would seriosly tax any charging system. Also, unless the voltage is stupped up, you would needheavy duty wires, like you see going to the starter.
Therefor, I am still skeptical, even though somebody may have made some minor improvements on the "bilge motor" and marketing it as something different.
Again, Times are always changing, and there are always new engineering solutions being developed, so I will welcome any objective information, provided by some group who has twsted this thing independently, and will hush my mouth if this thing proves to be as usefull as a 'Real' supercharger
gigatron
05-09-2003, 02:58 PM
I think we are all being scammed here's my post in honda forum lol...:
http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&postid=936890#post936890
http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&postid=936890#post936890
gigatron
05-09-2003, 03:01 PM
toyman321
06-27-2003, 06:32 PM
OK after viewing 1/2 of the bs that was floating around on this page I had to join and post. E chargers... unless you want to spend big big $$$ and drive a diesel rig DONT WORK. Anyone who is posting that a fan can produce boost is flat out lying, a fan can move air but not create boost (i.e. pressure) and the centrifugal e chargers that I have seen are junk. Anyone who is trying to sell you something made of plastic (i.e. leaf blower) and telling you that it will create boost is full of it. If you could get 30hp out of your car with an electric fan don’t you think everyone would be strapping toro leaf blowers to their cars? Save your self the time, money and probably damage to your engine and go buy a real turbo/supercharger or go on the bottle. And before you flame me becuase nitrous will ruin your engine I'd rather risk it with nitrous and get some real power instead of getting broken off pieces of plastic sucked into my manifold. Or setup a ram air system, not the ricer ram air systems that arent really true ram air but TRUE ram air, a TRUE ram air setup will create pressure in your intake manifod if it is setup correctly, granted it will not work until you are at speed but I have seen track cars runnig 1.5 lbs with a ram air setup at speed.
scarlet
08-06-2003, 05:58 PM
so what is the real deal about this supercharger? i am very interested in purchasing one. my boyfriend says that he's seen it work. it definatly works (right?). he says that it doesn't give you that much boost but it is still forced induction. according to what i have read on the internet it gives you 5% hp but that is more that an intake or headers would do. all i'm saying is that... i don't have $4000 for my comtech supercharger and until then i'm hoping this will do. i also heard that you can stack them and get twice the air or three times the air if you put two or three. i would greatly appreciate it if you do not email me but i'm will look on here everyday, if you have answers to my questions or more to add.:confused:
spdracr87
08-12-2003, 11:47 PM
u whould be better off if u want to build soem thng worht a danm to take and make a mister line with a water tank that feeds lill mist in as vaiper and have a god fan unit like that to spin it in lill better and mix with the air. and as for them falling abotu build a filter. hell make a cool air intake system for your ranger thats a big kick ass deal with a mister in it. makes yoru engine sound storng and u can move air lill better with out mister and fan u get maybe 10 hp out of it but with u get. maybe 15-25. depending on how u make it qand time it. well yeah thats compleatly differnt but those aint that good not the cheap ones any ways. just do as i say on that part if u want real power and most of all response it will snap your head in the small eninge that rangers have. or u can get a 5.0 out of a mustang liek i have been thinkign of buildign up one. well after im done with my other one im working on lol. im a crazy 18 year old that has crazy ideas that normally work hehe. but i know this one does i have done it for many of my freind and they pay me alot of money. sure there for ricers but these guys race every weekend and pay me alot of there moeny the make for husseling ppl cuz i hide the misters fo rhtem hehe. just think how u whould feal to pull up next to a 88 civc hatch back and look at it with no real mods to c ehe except cool air intake and exhaust hehe , then u get hosed it slik mahaha:thefinger
rcdickey
10-11-2003, 04:41 PM
Electric supercharging is very difficult but even automotive manufacturers are interested.
http://waw.wardsauto.com/ar/auto_visteon_eyes_electric
http://waw.wardsauto.com/ar/auto_visteon_eyes_electric
Vizzion
10-13-2003, 12:09 AM
Man ya'll really need to listen to these guys that are telling ya'll the truth
about these fake wanna be turbos that people are trying to sell. Which is what I told a young friend about them being B.S. But he figured he would just try it just to see if they really worked. The product he got looks like the one that guy posts on his website for $300.00 man that a bunch of B.S The whole unit probably is worth a plastic trash can you buy at your local Wal-mart. Well any who my friend bought it and tried it and there is no notice what so ever of gains. ANd no we didn't have it dynoed, where not that stupid to waste money on B.S plastic that we know has no gains what so ever. TO finish it of a week later he noticed a burnt's plastic smell and smoke coming from under the hood and found that the heat coming from the headers had warped and burnt the housing of this state of the art BLower Ha ha ha what a bunch of B.S man and the person to believe the so called power gains is the dumb one to begin with. By the way I'd like to see these so called (fabricated) Dyno Sheets of these gains and on what cars.
To any of those that are questioning these posser wannabe's don't believe them, it's all talk, $300 bucks come on where did ya'll get plastic that's worth that much. :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
about these fake wanna be turbos that people are trying to sell. Which is what I told a young friend about them being B.S. But he figured he would just try it just to see if they really worked. The product he got looks like the one that guy posts on his website for $300.00 man that a bunch of B.S The whole unit probably is worth a plastic trash can you buy at your local Wal-mart. Well any who my friend bought it and tried it and there is no notice what so ever of gains. ANd no we didn't have it dynoed, where not that stupid to waste money on B.S plastic that we know has no gains what so ever. TO finish it of a week later he noticed a burnt's plastic smell and smoke coming from under the hood and found that the heat coming from the headers had warped and burnt the housing of this state of the art BLower Ha ha ha what a bunch of B.S man and the person to believe the so called power gains is the dumb one to begin with. By the way I'd like to see these so called (fabricated) Dyno Sheets of these gains and on what cars.
To any of those that are questioning these posser wannabe's don't believe them, it's all talk, $300 bucks come on where did ya'll get plastic that's worth that much. :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
94tegRS
10-16-2003, 02:17 AM
u whould be better off if u want to build soem thng worht a danm to take and make a mister line with a water tank that feeds lill mist in as vaiper and have a god fan unit like that to spin it in lill better and mix with the air. and as for them falling abotu build a filter. hell make a cool air intake system for your ranger thats a big kick ass deal with a mister in it. makes yoru engine sound storng and u can move air lill better with out mister and fan u get maybe 10 hp out of it but with u get. maybe 15-25. depending on how u make it qand time it. well yeah thats compleatly differnt but those aint that good not the cheap ones any ways. just do as i say on that part if u want real power and most of all response it will snap your head in the small eninge that rangers have. or u can get a 5.0 out of a mustang liek i have been thinkign of buildign up one. well after im done with my other one im working on lol. im a crazy 18 year old that has crazy ideas that normally work hehe. but i know this one does i have done it for many of my freind and they pay me alot of money. sure there for ricers but these guys race every weekend and pay me alot of there moeny the make for husseling ppl cuz i hide the misters fo rhtem hehe. just think how u whould feal to pull up next to a 88 civc hatch back and look at it with no real mods to c ehe except cool air intake and exhaust hehe , then u get hosed it slik mahaha:thefinger
am I the only one that is VERY confused, suck mist into your engine??? thats good? :loser:
am I the only one that is VERY confused, suck mist into your engine??? thats good? :loser:
overdriveracer
10-17-2003, 05:07 PM
looking at making your own. Using a hairblow dryer motor and a small fan. friend did that and it works, only at higher RPM. but it works.
94tegRS
10-17-2003, 06:36 PM
ok, at higher rpms your engine need so much MORE air then it does at low RPMS, and I am willing to put lots of money down on the fact that a hairdryer motor with fan blades on it aint gonna keep up with the already incoming air.
Hypsi87
10-22-2003, 07:07 PM
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: WOW what will they think of next. what the hell is this wanna be turbo??? There is no way that an eletric motor that ran on a 12volt automotive eletrical systemwould run an inpeller fast enough to make boost. In order to make boost that means you have to overcome the vacume that your motor creates. when you floor you gas pedal your vac. goes to 0 well that is 14.7 PSI of ambient air that is going thourgh your intake, because the outside air pressure is 14.7PSI. Now I don't know how fast this thing spins the impeller but I know my turbo has to spin 150,000 RPM or more to make 17 PSI. now mabye it might through a little exra air into the intake but rembember this. Boost is accually the measurement of air that you are not using. because the ammout of air going into the inake execeeds the ammout of air that can be shoved into the compression chamber so the air build up and creats pressure otherwise known as boost. Now the water mister thing?? WTF are you talking about. why anyone would inject water into there naturally aspriated motor is beyond me. you don't get any incresse in power. Now on a forced inducted car you could inject water under boost to help take out pre deatonation. but hot water produces steam whitch is really dangrous. thats why I spray alky. to reduce pre deationation. It won't work. and as for the hair dryerthing. :cwm27: it does not work. unless his motor only flows like 9 cfm. any engine would suck the fins right off of that thing. Sorry for the guys tha already know this but it had to be said.
Andy
Andy
zanickzanick
11-03-2003, 05:15 PM
Seems there is a lot of confusion on whether or not an electric supercharger can work. yes, it is possible. the eRAM is only a 1psi electric supercharger (axial flow) and has plenty of power to do the task. If you understand how they work, and the power requirements to make 1psi at about 2-400cfm, you will see that it is more than possible. it is being done today and has been for over 7 years now
There are a ton of idiots out there selling boat vent fans. There are others, including the colored squirrel cage fans. If they dont pull a min of 50amps, they will not work. 13amps, 30 amps, will not cut it. it takes power to make power. we are not talking 5-15psi, we are only talking 1psi and 5% gains. 5% for $300 is a good bang for the buck, and we should know. we are racers and have done it all. from throttle bodies to complete engine displacement changes, the all gain HP in different degrees. The eRAM was equal to the best value of all the mods we have done on our race cars.
If you forget all the bogus products out there that do not work, and have no business of working for many reasons, you will see that the eRAM's concepts are based on solid physics and automotive engineering
Here are the specs.
908cfm (measured on a flow bench)
13.5volts/ 50-55 amps
3.5lbs of thrust (shown on the video)
24,000rpm
1psi net change in intake pressure with use of the eRAM on WOT
5% hp gains as seen on many cars , measured by a rear wheel (or front wheel ) dyno jet 248e.
Use by a pro racing team for over 4 years, with no issues. On several club racer's cars that have been dynoed and are also used on the street.
dont confuse the flow rating of a carburetor , with the requirements of an engine. its related to its size, and generally, a 5 liter engine will draw close to 500cfm at 6000rpm. you can divde this for your engines output.
1hp motors can exist in the size that we are using. they are expensive and made to Military type specs. (rare earth magnets, all cnc machined aluminum parts, etc) The eRAM works only at WOT, so the duty cyle is pretty low, so we can hit the motor hard for short durations. at a track like laguna, even a top driver will only be on the WOT for 40 seconds a lap, on a 1:40 second lap. drag racing only takes less than 15-16 seconds , (or less!)
The 10hp gains we got on several porsche 911s , on top of the 200hp rear wheel that we tested , was real and done by an independent dyno shop, and club racer!
If you have any questions, I would be happy to address them.
Mark Kibort
eRACING
SpeedGT #19
www.electricsupercharger.com
www.928trackcars.com/kibort/
There are a ton of idiots out there selling boat vent fans. There are others, including the colored squirrel cage fans. If they dont pull a min of 50amps, they will not work. 13amps, 30 amps, will not cut it. it takes power to make power. we are not talking 5-15psi, we are only talking 1psi and 5% gains. 5% for $300 is a good bang for the buck, and we should know. we are racers and have done it all. from throttle bodies to complete engine displacement changes, the all gain HP in different degrees. The eRAM was equal to the best value of all the mods we have done on our race cars.
If you forget all the bogus products out there that do not work, and have no business of working for many reasons, you will see that the eRAM's concepts are based on solid physics and automotive engineering
Here are the specs.
908cfm (measured on a flow bench)
13.5volts/ 50-55 amps
3.5lbs of thrust (shown on the video)
24,000rpm
1psi net change in intake pressure with use of the eRAM on WOT
5% hp gains as seen on many cars , measured by a rear wheel (or front wheel ) dyno jet 248e.
Use by a pro racing team for over 4 years, with no issues. On several club racer's cars that have been dynoed and are also used on the street.
dont confuse the flow rating of a carburetor , with the requirements of an engine. its related to its size, and generally, a 5 liter engine will draw close to 500cfm at 6000rpm. you can divde this for your engines output.
1hp motors can exist in the size that we are using. they are expensive and made to Military type specs. (rare earth magnets, all cnc machined aluminum parts, etc) The eRAM works only at WOT, so the duty cyle is pretty low, so we can hit the motor hard for short durations. at a track like laguna, even a top driver will only be on the WOT for 40 seconds a lap, on a 1:40 second lap. drag racing only takes less than 15-16 seconds , (or less!)
The 10hp gains we got on several porsche 911s , on top of the 200hp rear wheel that we tested , was real and done by an independent dyno shop, and club racer!
If you have any questions, I would be happy to address them.
Mark Kibort
eRACING
SpeedGT #19
www.electricsupercharger.com
www.928trackcars.com/kibort/
Hypsi87
11-03-2003, 06:11 PM
Here are the specs.
908cfm (measured on a flow bench)
13.5volts/ 50-55 amps
3.5lbs of thrust (shown on the video)
24,000rpm
1psi net change in intake pressure with use of the eRAM on WOT
5% hp gains as seen on many cars , measured by a rear wheel (or front wheel ) dyno jet 248e.
Use by a pro racing team for over 4 years, with no issues. On several club racer's cars that have been dynoed and are also used on the street.
What is flowing at 908 CFM??
908cfm (measured on a flow bench)
13.5volts/ 50-55 amps
3.5lbs of thrust (shown on the video)
24,000rpm
1psi net change in intake pressure with use of the eRAM on WOT
5% hp gains as seen on many cars , measured by a rear wheel (or front wheel ) dyno jet 248e.
Use by a pro racing team for over 4 years, with no issues. On several club racer's cars that have been dynoed and are also used on the street.
What is flowing at 908 CFM??
zanickzanick
11-03-2003, 06:19 PM
the eRAM itself flows (produces flow) of 908cfm. however, this is at 0 pressure, and max pressure is just around stall (0cfm) flow.
so, since the operating range of the eRAM on most cars dynoed are in th 200-400cfm range, the slight pressure the eRAM produces accounts for the HP increases. (5% net change in intake pressure was seen by measuring air box vacuum or even vacuum in aftermarket intake tubes.)
WE now have a motor that is a little more expensive and drives the RPMs up to 25,000rpm and increase pressure as well. current is just around 55amps (up from the current 50amps) we may have it as an option ,or standardize on it.
Mark
www.electricsupercharger.com
www.928trackcars.com/kibort
What is flowing at 908 CFM??
so, since the operating range of the eRAM on most cars dynoed are in th 200-400cfm range, the slight pressure the eRAM produces accounts for the HP increases. (5% net change in intake pressure was seen by measuring air box vacuum or even vacuum in aftermarket intake tubes.)
WE now have a motor that is a little more expensive and drives the RPMs up to 25,000rpm and increase pressure as well. current is just around 55amps (up from the current 50amps) we may have it as an option ,or standardize on it.
Mark
www.electricsupercharger.com
www.928trackcars.com/kibort
What is flowing at 908 CFM??
zanickzanick
11-03-2003, 06:23 PM
Yes, andy it is possible with 700+ watts of energy, to match air flow and create slight pressure *(we are only talking about 5% increases here)
Next, water injection has been around for 50 or more years. aircraft engine have had water injection to cool the intake charge and increase mass flow. as the water evaporates, it cools the intake charge. the increased mass flow is mixed with more fuel and more power results. another gain is what you mentioned. to cool the intake charge enough to stop dentonation.
Mk
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: WOW what will they think of next. what the hell is this wanna be turbo??? There is no way that an eletric motor that ran on a 12volt automotive eletrical systemwould run an inpeller fast enough to make boost. In order to make boost that means you have to overcome the vacume that your motor creates. when you floor you gas pedal your vac. goes to 0 well that is 14.7 PSI of ambient air that is going thourgh your intake, because the outside air pressure is 14.7PSI. Now I don't know how fast this thing spins the impeller but I know my turbo has to spin 150,000 RPM or more to make 17 PSI. now mabye it might through a little exra air into the intake but rembember this. Boost is accually the measurement of air that you are not using. because the ammout of air going into the inake execeeds the ammout of air that can be shoved into the compression chamber so the air build up and creats pressure otherwise known as boost. Now the water mister thing?? WTF are you talking about. why anyone would inject water into there naturally aspriated motor is beyond me. you don't get any incresse in power. Now on a forced inducted car you could inject water under boost to help take out pre deatonation. but hot water produces steam whitch is really dangrous. thats why I spray alky. to reduce pre deationation. It won't work. and as for the hair dryerthing. :cwm27: it does not work. unless his motor only flows like 9 cfm. any engine would suck the fins right off of that thing. Sorry for the guys tha already know this but it had to be said.
Andy
Next, water injection has been around for 50 or more years. aircraft engine have had water injection to cool the intake charge and increase mass flow. as the water evaporates, it cools the intake charge. the increased mass flow is mixed with more fuel and more power results. another gain is what you mentioned. to cool the intake charge enough to stop dentonation.
Mk
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: WOW what will they think of next. what the hell is this wanna be turbo??? There is no way that an eletric motor that ran on a 12volt automotive eletrical systemwould run an inpeller fast enough to make boost. In order to make boost that means you have to overcome the vacume that your motor creates. when you floor you gas pedal your vac. goes to 0 well that is 14.7 PSI of ambient air that is going thourgh your intake, because the outside air pressure is 14.7PSI. Now I don't know how fast this thing spins the impeller but I know my turbo has to spin 150,000 RPM or more to make 17 PSI. now mabye it might through a little exra air into the intake but rembember this. Boost is accually the measurement of air that you are not using. because the ammout of air going into the inake execeeds the ammout of air that can be shoved into the compression chamber so the air build up and creats pressure otherwise known as boost. Now the water mister thing?? WTF are you talking about. why anyone would inject water into there naturally aspriated motor is beyond me. you don't get any incresse in power. Now on a forced inducted car you could inject water under boost to help take out pre deatonation. but hot water produces steam whitch is really dangrous. thats why I spray alky. to reduce pre deationation. It won't work. and as for the hair dryerthing. :cwm27: it does not work. unless his motor only flows like 9 cfm. any engine would suck the fins right off of that thing. Sorry for the guys tha already know this but it had to be said.
Andy
zanickzanick
11-10-2003, 04:56 PM
New version just went through final bench testing and is now in production.
25,500rpms (increase of around 2000rpms)
current 55 amps
power is over 760watts (input)
expect to see some interesting video showing air flow, pressure, current , voltage drops, RPM optical guages, etc., in the weeks to come on the website.
Mark Kibort
eRACiNG Motorsports
25,500rpms (increase of around 2000rpms)
current 55 amps
power is over 760watts (input)
expect to see some interesting video showing air flow, pressure, current , voltage drops, RPM optical guages, etc., in the weeks to come on the website.
Mark Kibort
eRACiNG Motorsports
Hypsi87
11-12-2003, 09:33 PM
yes I know Water injection has been around on aircraft and other extremr compression engines. water injection will not work on a N/A engine. Unless it was a high compression engine in which the water would have to be on all the time. a N/A engine can not heat up the intake charge enough to evaporate it.
BIG JIM 54
11-15-2003, 05:12 AM
Well actually....
These things you see on EBay are wimps! They will probably decrease air flow due to their own restriction.
900 cfm won't do you anything either.
Since I never plan on selling this device I made, I don't mind telling you all about it.
First, these people who say you can't make significant boost even in a Chevy V8 are mistaken I believe. I say "believe" because I actually haven't finished the project yet but all the numbers come together.
Second, why does everyone believe you have to drive an electric motor with only 12 volts just because that's what the car is wired with?
Third, Roots and centrifugal type superchargers use about 45 HP to make say, 150 HP in a car engine. No electric motor you can put in your car is going to produce 45 HP, agreed. So that is out of the question. But turbo compressors can make a lot of boost. Everyone knows that as well. They require RPM to make boost because the exhaust of a car doesn't have a lot of pressure behind it.
But to offset turbo lag, it's advisable to use 1 or 2 small turbos that spoolup quickly. One large turbo is felt to be counter-productive since the spoolup time would be so slow. But it does push a lot of air at a lower RPM ultimately. Just not practical for the street.
Now to my project. I have found a very large turbocharger compressor off a big Detroit Diesel. As it was made, it weights over 50 pounds and has an 11 inch impeller to make boost with. Cutting off the exhaust side, it now weights 19 pounds. Do you all get where I'm going with this?
Yep, I found a 3.8HP, 24 volt electric motor (over 2800 watts). It's only 4"x7". This motor has so much torque it will pull your arm out of it's socket. This is going to be hooked up to the compressor side of the turbo impellar shaft with a Kevlar belt arrangement with various size pulleys that I can put on to vary impeller RPM. Impeller RPM would determine boost levels.
That 3.8HP electric motor only runs at 5000 RPM. But here's how the calculations come out. I can over-drive the motor at 1:4 or 1:5 or more so that big turbo compressor spins at 20-25,000 RPM. At that RPM, that size compressor will make 5-6 pounds of boost in a Chevy 350 at 5000 RPM. I don't know exactly how far I can go with the ratio but I figure maybe 1:10 overdriven. 0 to 20,000 RPM comes in 0.8 seconds so no lag ever.
Still so far, I know you're thinking it's impossible. I'm not done yet. The motor will be powered by 2 small motorcycle batteries in the engine compartment hooked up in series to supply the 24 volts. They will be charged in parallel by the car's alternator. They do nothing but turn on the motor at WOT only. The engine's throttle body will have mounted a small push button off-on switch wired into 2 Ford 60A starter relays that will send power to the electric motor running the turbo impeller when I put my foot in it. Even with 24 volts, it will require 118 amps for a motor to make 3.8HP. That's why the 2 60A relays. I don't think that electric motor will need all of it's 3.8HP to make my target boost level.
I have all the necessary parts except waste gate, plumbing and other stuff I'm sure I'll discover. But it will make for one quick '87 Corvette. And like I said, the numbers are there. I still have to figure injector and fuel pump/regulator size.
I am reasonably sure I can spin that compressor to make 10 pounds of boost by altering the ratio of pulleys. But I'm going to start slow so as not to run into detonation and/or engine destruction. The engine is fresh however.
But just with 6 pounds of boost at 5000 RPM into my slightly modified Chevy 350 TPI engine, I'll be making 550-600 HP! And it will be virtually instant!
No power lose from just driving the forced-induction pump like with a supercharger and no "turbo lag" from an exhaust-driven pump. Best of everything.
My question. Why hasn't someone done this before and why do all the "experts" tell me it can't be done? Am I going to make history?
BIG JIM
These things you see on EBay are wimps! They will probably decrease air flow due to their own restriction.
900 cfm won't do you anything either.
Since I never plan on selling this device I made, I don't mind telling you all about it.
First, these people who say you can't make significant boost even in a Chevy V8 are mistaken I believe. I say "believe" because I actually haven't finished the project yet but all the numbers come together.
Second, why does everyone believe you have to drive an electric motor with only 12 volts just because that's what the car is wired with?
Third, Roots and centrifugal type superchargers use about 45 HP to make say, 150 HP in a car engine. No electric motor you can put in your car is going to produce 45 HP, agreed. So that is out of the question. But turbo compressors can make a lot of boost. Everyone knows that as well. They require RPM to make boost because the exhaust of a car doesn't have a lot of pressure behind it.
But to offset turbo lag, it's advisable to use 1 or 2 small turbos that spoolup quickly. One large turbo is felt to be counter-productive since the spoolup time would be so slow. But it does push a lot of air at a lower RPM ultimately. Just not practical for the street.
Now to my project. I have found a very large turbocharger compressor off a big Detroit Diesel. As it was made, it weights over 50 pounds and has an 11 inch impeller to make boost with. Cutting off the exhaust side, it now weights 19 pounds. Do you all get where I'm going with this?
Yep, I found a 3.8HP, 24 volt electric motor (over 2800 watts). It's only 4"x7". This motor has so much torque it will pull your arm out of it's socket. This is going to be hooked up to the compressor side of the turbo impellar shaft with a Kevlar belt arrangement with various size pulleys that I can put on to vary impeller RPM. Impeller RPM would determine boost levels.
That 3.8HP electric motor only runs at 5000 RPM. But here's how the calculations come out. I can over-drive the motor at 1:4 or 1:5 or more so that big turbo compressor spins at 20-25,000 RPM. At that RPM, that size compressor will make 5-6 pounds of boost in a Chevy 350 at 5000 RPM. I don't know exactly how far I can go with the ratio but I figure maybe 1:10 overdriven. 0 to 20,000 RPM comes in 0.8 seconds so no lag ever.
Still so far, I know you're thinking it's impossible. I'm not done yet. The motor will be powered by 2 small motorcycle batteries in the engine compartment hooked up in series to supply the 24 volts. They will be charged in parallel by the car's alternator. They do nothing but turn on the motor at WOT only. The engine's throttle body will have mounted a small push button off-on switch wired into 2 Ford 60A starter relays that will send power to the electric motor running the turbo impeller when I put my foot in it. Even with 24 volts, it will require 118 amps for a motor to make 3.8HP. That's why the 2 60A relays. I don't think that electric motor will need all of it's 3.8HP to make my target boost level.
I have all the necessary parts except waste gate, plumbing and other stuff I'm sure I'll discover. But it will make for one quick '87 Corvette. And like I said, the numbers are there. I still have to figure injector and fuel pump/regulator size.
I am reasonably sure I can spin that compressor to make 10 pounds of boost by altering the ratio of pulleys. But I'm going to start slow so as not to run into detonation and/or engine destruction. The engine is fresh however.
But just with 6 pounds of boost at 5000 RPM into my slightly modified Chevy 350 TPI engine, I'll be making 550-600 HP! And it will be virtually instant!
No power lose from just driving the forced-induction pump like with a supercharger and no "turbo lag" from an exhaust-driven pump. Best of everything.
My question. Why hasn't someone done this before and why do all the "experts" tell me it can't be done? Am I going to make history?
BIG JIM
zanickzanick
11-17-2003, 03:26 PM
big jim,
we actually use the 24volt system at the beginning. its a good idea, except for the extra weight you have to carry around. if you can muster 10psi, it would be worth it. Actually, 5psi, it would be worth it. Now, to get 5psi, I dont care how you do it, but you have to have the power to make 5psi at some CFM. (ie 5.7 liter engine is around 600cfm at 6krpm) This would require about 15 to 20hp. if you look at the power side of that equation, it is 15,000 watts, or 1200amps. take it to 24volts and that is around 600amps. very doable with a set of two good small high current motorcycle batteries. However, look how long it will last between charges. a good motorcycle batter is around 14amp hours. most small car batteries are around 30 to 40 amp hours. roughly, a lb of battery weight for every amp hour is a good rule of thumb.
so, a 600amp shot, will last around 30 seconds before you kill a small battery. (yes, even in series and at 24volts) so, the idea is sound, but the other side of the coin is driving a 3000-5000rpm motor, geared up to massive speeds *(ie 60-80krpm) to get the pressure up. I dont know the flow forms of the truck turbo you speak of, but it shouldnt be that hard to figure out the cfm and pressure generated at what rpm. my first thought , is that a normal size turbo charger would be better.
make no mistake, a ton of pressure is developed by the expanding and pushed exhaust gases by the pistons. the speed of a small high performance turbo is in the 100,000 rpm range.
It can work, but its a lot of work, when you can just get a supercharger and wrap a belt around it and attach it to a pulley on your drive shaft pulley.
our eRAM does work, and work well, albeit only 1psi at 3-400cfm (900cfm is free flow)
see our site for more videos soon about showing the inherent power of the eRAM. at $300 its a great HP deal.
MK
we actually use the 24volt system at the beginning. its a good idea, except for the extra weight you have to carry around. if you can muster 10psi, it would be worth it. Actually, 5psi, it would be worth it. Now, to get 5psi, I dont care how you do it, but you have to have the power to make 5psi at some CFM. (ie 5.7 liter engine is around 600cfm at 6krpm) This would require about 15 to 20hp. if you look at the power side of that equation, it is 15,000 watts, or 1200amps. take it to 24volts and that is around 600amps. very doable with a set of two good small high current motorcycle batteries. However, look how long it will last between charges. a good motorcycle batter is around 14amp hours. most small car batteries are around 30 to 40 amp hours. roughly, a lb of battery weight for every amp hour is a good rule of thumb.
so, a 600amp shot, will last around 30 seconds before you kill a small battery. (yes, even in series and at 24volts) so, the idea is sound, but the other side of the coin is driving a 3000-5000rpm motor, geared up to massive speeds *(ie 60-80krpm) to get the pressure up. I dont know the flow forms of the truck turbo you speak of, but it shouldnt be that hard to figure out the cfm and pressure generated at what rpm. my first thought , is that a normal size turbo charger would be better.
make no mistake, a ton of pressure is developed by the expanding and pushed exhaust gases by the pistons. the speed of a small high performance turbo is in the 100,000 rpm range.
It can work, but its a lot of work, when you can just get a supercharger and wrap a belt around it and attach it to a pulley on your drive shaft pulley.
our eRAM does work, and work well, albeit only 1psi at 3-400cfm (900cfm is free flow)
see our site for more videos soon about showing the inherent power of the eRAM. at $300 its a great HP deal.
MK
BIG JIM 54
11-17-2003, 04:28 PM
"our eRAM does work, and work well, albeit only 1psi at 3-400cfm"
If that's the case, my unit should light my 315/35-17ZR Michelin Pilot's on fire.
The AirResearch .95 Turbo was $81 used off EBay and my 3.8HP motor was $175 brand new. I'd be afraid my 371HP SB Chevy would swallow your eRam unit.
I can put 48V to the motor for short periods for a total of 7.8HP. Even the eggheads on the CorvetteForum say all I need is 1.9HP per pound of boost at 5000 RPM.
Big Jim Greenemeyer
If that's the case, my unit should light my 315/35-17ZR Michelin Pilot's on fire.
The AirResearch .95 Turbo was $81 used off EBay and my 3.8HP motor was $175 brand new. I'd be afraid my 371HP SB Chevy would swallow your eRam unit.
I can put 48V to the motor for short periods for a total of 7.8HP. Even the eggheads on the CorvetteForum say all I need is 1.9HP per pound of boost at 5000 RPM.
Big Jim Greenemeyer
zanickzanick
11-17-2003, 04:38 PM
.95 turbo? what doest this mean?
your unit will have to be installed. dont forget about 2x40amp hour batteries, at $100 each, and then how do you plan on ducting an intermittant turbo inline? remember, an axial flow or squirrel cage fan can coexist in the intake stream, but the turbo, has to spin, or air doesnt move in to the intake!.. (ahhh, forgot about that) actually, Turbodyne did have a cleaver way to duct into the intake stream with a flap. however, this is not a trivial solution. somethings to work out im sure, but the main thing is , why?? a belt driven turbo at that level seems to make more sense. at least we admit to the ease of use and lower performance, vs bigger boost solutions. Yours seems to be over complicated. by the way, how are you going to gear up a 3000rpm to 60-80,000rpm turbo. thats a 20:1 ratio step up. cant really do that with belts as it would be a 1" pulley to a 20" pulley. Not really feasable.
that 3000rpm is probably at rated load, not the full max speed of the motor you have (I would imagine.) correct me if im assuming too much
interesting, but I think it would be a lot of work to get spinning (pun intended) this is why no one has done this before.
MK
"our eRAM does work, and work well, albeit only 1psi at 3-400cfm"
If that's the case, my unit should light my 315/35-17ZR Michelin Pilot's on fire.
The AirResearch .95 Turbo was $81 used off EBay and my 3.8HP motor was $175 brand new.
your unit will have to be installed. dont forget about 2x40amp hour batteries, at $100 each, and then how do you plan on ducting an intermittant turbo inline? remember, an axial flow or squirrel cage fan can coexist in the intake stream, but the turbo, has to spin, or air doesnt move in to the intake!.. (ahhh, forgot about that) actually, Turbodyne did have a cleaver way to duct into the intake stream with a flap. however, this is not a trivial solution. somethings to work out im sure, but the main thing is , why?? a belt driven turbo at that level seems to make more sense. at least we admit to the ease of use and lower performance, vs bigger boost solutions. Yours seems to be over complicated. by the way, how are you going to gear up a 3000rpm to 60-80,000rpm turbo. thats a 20:1 ratio step up. cant really do that with belts as it would be a 1" pulley to a 20" pulley. Not really feasable.
that 3000rpm is probably at rated load, not the full max speed of the motor you have (I would imagine.) correct me if im assuming too much
interesting, but I think it would be a lot of work to get spinning (pun intended) this is why no one has done this before.
MK
"our eRAM does work, and work well, albeit only 1psi at 3-400cfm"
If that's the case, my unit should light my 315/35-17ZR Michelin Pilot's on fire.
The AirResearch .95 Turbo was $81 used off EBay and my 3.8HP motor was $175 brand new.
zanickzanick
11-17-2003, 04:44 PM
if the motor was rated at 3.8hp, you are not just going to be able to double the voltage to double the power. if it is thermally protected, it will throw that breaker. Plus, we are talking about 15 to 20hp to make 5psi at 600cfm. (not 3.8 or 7!!) 5hp may buy you about 3psi or so, and that is still very good, but you wont be smoking any 315x35s either.
unless you are in tahoe on some Ice!!
was that motor rating at 24v and 3.8 hp?? or was it 12volt?
anyway, depending on the winding and the commutation, you may not get the power you think you would be, just by increasing the votage. you may just increase the torque, get more heat and not do much with the speed. without knowing the motor you are looking at, I cant help, but I did work with AC and DC motors , and they were industrial types for over 12 years. I also went around the country and gave seminars about power conversion topics. so, motors are something i do know a bit about.
MK
"our eRAM does work, and work well, albeit only 1psi at 3-400cfm"
If that's the case, my unit should light my 315/35-17ZR Michelin Pilot's on fire.
The AirResearch .95 Turbo was $81 used off EBay and my 3.8HP motor was $175 brand new. I'd be afraid my 371HP SB Chevy would swallow your eRam unit.
I can put 48V to the motor for short periods for a total of 7.8HP. Even the eggheads on the CorvetteForum say all I need is 1.9HP per pound of boost at 5000 RPM.
Big Jim Greenemeyer
unless you are in tahoe on some Ice!!
was that motor rating at 24v and 3.8 hp?? or was it 12volt?
anyway, depending on the winding and the commutation, you may not get the power you think you would be, just by increasing the votage. you may just increase the torque, get more heat and not do much with the speed. without knowing the motor you are looking at, I cant help, but I did work with AC and DC motors , and they were industrial types for over 12 years. I also went around the country and gave seminars about power conversion topics. so, motors are something i do know a bit about.
MK
"our eRAM does work, and work well, albeit only 1psi at 3-400cfm"
If that's the case, my unit should light my 315/35-17ZR Michelin Pilot's on fire.
The AirResearch .95 Turbo was $81 used off EBay and my 3.8HP motor was $175 brand new. I'd be afraid my 371HP SB Chevy would swallow your eRam unit.
I can put 48V to the motor for short periods for a total of 7.8HP. Even the eggheads on the CorvetteForum say all I need is 1.9HP per pound of boost at 5000 RPM.
Big Jim Greenemeyer
BIG JIM 54
11-24-2003, 03:48 AM
How do I know? That's what it says on the turbo inlet housing. I suggest you contact AirResearch if you want to know more about that turbo.
How do you know what type motorcycle battery I'm going to install and how do you know what an unspecified motorcycle battery costs? I haven't figured that out yet but maybe you can see into the future. I can't.
I have already admitted to having to use two intake ducts for when the turbo compressor is on or off. A simple flap arrangment will work fine.
Where do you see my electric motor will only turn 3000 RPM? You don't even know what the .95 turbo designation means so how do you know what RPM the compressor must run to make the boost I want?
As far as I'm concerned, your entire posts are non sequitur.
BTW, I am considered by many to be the #1 expert in world on the electric motors used in radio controlled racing cars and this concept is just a little bigger. I also have a published book on the subject, BIG JIM's R/C Motor Black Book, published by Trafford Publishing.
I say this to assure you I am probably more aware of what a properly designed and applied electric motor can do than most people.
Electric motor power can be doubled for short periods by doubling the voltage input. Not a hard concept to understand. I'll put in the power until I get the boost I want. After all, it will only work at wide-open throttle for a few seconds at a time. I mean, how much can you use 500 HP on the street at one time. Considering I'm making 371HP now at 450 ft.lbs. of torque, 500HP is not an unrealistic goal.
As I said, I'm not plannng to ever sell a device like this. It's just for fun and to show the "experts" it can be done. Maybe my posts will spark someone with the resources out there to undertake the venture and put on the market a REAL electric forced-induction appartus. Sure, it will cost more probably than $300 but at least it will do something worthwhile.
How do you know what type motorcycle battery I'm going to install and how do you know what an unspecified motorcycle battery costs? I haven't figured that out yet but maybe you can see into the future. I can't.
I have already admitted to having to use two intake ducts for when the turbo compressor is on or off. A simple flap arrangment will work fine.
Where do you see my electric motor will only turn 3000 RPM? You don't even know what the .95 turbo designation means so how do you know what RPM the compressor must run to make the boost I want?
As far as I'm concerned, your entire posts are non sequitur.
BTW, I am considered by many to be the #1 expert in world on the electric motors used in radio controlled racing cars and this concept is just a little bigger. I also have a published book on the subject, BIG JIM's R/C Motor Black Book, published by Trafford Publishing.
I say this to assure you I am probably more aware of what a properly designed and applied electric motor can do than most people.
Electric motor power can be doubled for short periods by doubling the voltage input. Not a hard concept to understand. I'll put in the power until I get the boost I want. After all, it will only work at wide-open throttle for a few seconds at a time. I mean, how much can you use 500 HP on the street at one time. Considering I'm making 371HP now at 450 ft.lbs. of torque, 500HP is not an unrealistic goal.
As I said, I'm not plannng to ever sell a device like this. It's just for fun and to show the "experts" it can be done. Maybe my posts will spark someone with the resources out there to undertake the venture and put on the market a REAL electric forced-induction appartus. Sure, it will cost more probably than $300 but at least it will do something worthwhile.
Katoom
12-27-2003, 09:23 AM
Why bother. If you want a supercharged vehicle, go buy one. There are lots out there. Thunderbird S/C, XR-7 S/C, GTP, Bonneville SSEI, Aurora, F-150 Lightning. If you want the true effect of a chrager, then you would want a belt driven aluminum unit that will develop 10-14 psi just off of idle. Thats what it's all about! I have a XR-7 S/C and it's a riot. The rest of the car is built to handle it....motor, tranny, suspension, brakes etc.
Hypsi87
12-29-2003, 04:30 AM
Well actually....
These things you see on EBay are wimps! They will probably decrease air flow due to their own restriction.
900 cfm won't do you anything either.
Since I never plan on selling this device I made, I don't mind telling you all about it.
First, these people who say you can't make significant boost even in a Chevy V8 are mistaken I believe. I say "believe" because I actually haven't finished the project yet but all the numbers come together.
Second, why does everyone believe you have to drive an electric motor with only 12 volts just because that's what the car is wired with?
Third, Roots and centrifugal type superchargers use about 45 HP to make say, 150 HP in a car engine. No electric motor you can put in your car is going to produce 45 HP, agreed. So that is out of the question. But turbo compressors can make a lot of boost. Everyone knows that as well. They require RPM to make boost because the exhaust of a car doesn't have a lot of pressure behind it.
But to offset turbo lag, it's advisable to use 1 or 2 small turbos that spoolup quickly. One large turbo is felt to be counter-productive since the spoolup time would be so slow. But it does push a lot of air at a lower RPM ultimately. Just not practical for the street.
Now to my project. I have found a very large turbocharger compressor off a big Detroit Diesel. As it was made, it weights over 50 pounds and has an 11 inch impeller to make boost with. Cutting off the exhaust side, it now weights 19 pounds. Do you all get where I'm going with this?
Yep, I found a 3.8HP, 24 volt electric motor (over 2800 watts). It's only 4"x7". This motor has so much torque it will pull your arm out of it's socket. This is going to be hooked up to the compressor side of the turbo impellar shaft with a Kevlar belt arrangement with various size pulleys that I can put on to vary impeller RPM. Impeller RPM would determine boost levels.
That 3.8HP electric motor only runs at 5000 RPM. But here's how the calculations come out. I can over-drive the motor at 1:4 or 1:5 or more so that big turbo compressor spins at 20-25,000 RPM. At that RPM, that size compressor will make 5-6 pounds of boost in a Chevy 350 at 5000 RPM. I don't know exactly how far I can go with the ratio but I figure maybe 1:10 overdriven. 0 to 20,000 RPM comes in 0.8 seconds so no lag ever.
Still so far, I know you're thinking it's impossible. I'm not done yet. The motor will be powered by 2 small motorcycle batteries in the engine compartment hooked up in series to supply the 24 volts. They will be charged in parallel by the car's alternator. They do nothing but turn on the motor at WOT only. The engine's throttle body will have mounted a small push button off-on switch wired into 2 Ford 60A starter relays that will send power to the electric motor running the turbo impeller when I put my foot in it. Even with 24 volts, it will require 118 amps for a motor to make 3.8HP. That's why the 2 60A relays. I don't think that electric motor will need all of it's 3.8HP to make my target boost level.
I have all the necessary parts except waste gate, plumbing and other stuff I'm sure I'll discover. But it will make for one quick '87 Corvette. And like I said, the numbers are there. I still have to figure injector and fuel pump/regulator size.
I am reasonably sure I can spin that compressor to make 10 pounds of boost by altering the ratio of pulleys. But I'm going to start slow so as not to run into detonation and/or engine destruction. The engine is fresh however.
But just with 6 pounds of boost at 5000 RPM into my slightly modified Chevy 350 TPI engine, I'll be making 550-600 HP! And it will be virtually instant!
No power lose from just driving the forced-induction pump like with a supercharger and no "turbo lag" from an exhaust-driven pump. Best of everything.
My question. Why hasn't someone done this before and why do all the "experts" tell me it can't be done? Am I going to make history?
BIG JIM
I run a single TE-60 turbo and i have virtually no lag at all. Tubos do not lag as bad as people make them out. I have a question.... If your cutting off the exahust housing then why do you need a wastegate???? And another thing I work for CAT and I have been around alot of turbochargers, I have never seen a 11 inch compressor wheel. Something is not right here. Oh and that .95 that is casted on your compressor housing is the A/R raito.
These things you see on EBay are wimps! They will probably decrease air flow due to their own restriction.
900 cfm won't do you anything either.
Since I never plan on selling this device I made, I don't mind telling you all about it.
First, these people who say you can't make significant boost even in a Chevy V8 are mistaken I believe. I say "believe" because I actually haven't finished the project yet but all the numbers come together.
Second, why does everyone believe you have to drive an electric motor with only 12 volts just because that's what the car is wired with?
Third, Roots and centrifugal type superchargers use about 45 HP to make say, 150 HP in a car engine. No electric motor you can put in your car is going to produce 45 HP, agreed. So that is out of the question. But turbo compressors can make a lot of boost. Everyone knows that as well. They require RPM to make boost because the exhaust of a car doesn't have a lot of pressure behind it.
But to offset turbo lag, it's advisable to use 1 or 2 small turbos that spoolup quickly. One large turbo is felt to be counter-productive since the spoolup time would be so slow. But it does push a lot of air at a lower RPM ultimately. Just not practical for the street.
Now to my project. I have found a very large turbocharger compressor off a big Detroit Diesel. As it was made, it weights over 50 pounds and has an 11 inch impeller to make boost with. Cutting off the exhaust side, it now weights 19 pounds. Do you all get where I'm going with this?
Yep, I found a 3.8HP, 24 volt electric motor (over 2800 watts). It's only 4"x7". This motor has so much torque it will pull your arm out of it's socket. This is going to be hooked up to the compressor side of the turbo impellar shaft with a Kevlar belt arrangement with various size pulleys that I can put on to vary impeller RPM. Impeller RPM would determine boost levels.
That 3.8HP electric motor only runs at 5000 RPM. But here's how the calculations come out. I can over-drive the motor at 1:4 or 1:5 or more so that big turbo compressor spins at 20-25,000 RPM. At that RPM, that size compressor will make 5-6 pounds of boost in a Chevy 350 at 5000 RPM. I don't know exactly how far I can go with the ratio but I figure maybe 1:10 overdriven. 0 to 20,000 RPM comes in 0.8 seconds so no lag ever.
Still so far, I know you're thinking it's impossible. I'm not done yet. The motor will be powered by 2 small motorcycle batteries in the engine compartment hooked up in series to supply the 24 volts. They will be charged in parallel by the car's alternator. They do nothing but turn on the motor at WOT only. The engine's throttle body will have mounted a small push button off-on switch wired into 2 Ford 60A starter relays that will send power to the electric motor running the turbo impeller when I put my foot in it. Even with 24 volts, it will require 118 amps for a motor to make 3.8HP. That's why the 2 60A relays. I don't think that electric motor will need all of it's 3.8HP to make my target boost level.
I have all the necessary parts except waste gate, plumbing and other stuff I'm sure I'll discover. But it will make for one quick '87 Corvette. And like I said, the numbers are there. I still have to figure injector and fuel pump/regulator size.
I am reasonably sure I can spin that compressor to make 10 pounds of boost by altering the ratio of pulleys. But I'm going to start slow so as not to run into detonation and/or engine destruction. The engine is fresh however.
But just with 6 pounds of boost at 5000 RPM into my slightly modified Chevy 350 TPI engine, I'll be making 550-600 HP! And it will be virtually instant!
No power lose from just driving the forced-induction pump like with a supercharger and no "turbo lag" from an exhaust-driven pump. Best of everything.
My question. Why hasn't someone done this before and why do all the "experts" tell me it can't be done? Am I going to make history?
BIG JIM
I run a single TE-60 turbo and i have virtually no lag at all. Tubos do not lag as bad as people make them out. I have a question.... If your cutting off the exahust housing then why do you need a wastegate???? And another thing I work for CAT and I have been around alot of turbochargers, I have never seen a 11 inch compressor wheel. Something is not right here. Oh and that .95 that is casted on your compressor housing is the A/R raito.
zanickzanick
12-29-2003, 05:06 PM
If you are an expert on model electric motors, we can speak the same language. However, the motor that could drive a tubo, like a .95 air research, would be very unique. Its one thing to do what we do with the eRAM for moderate 10hp gains for a cost of 55amps intermittantly, and 25,000rpm and less than 1psi. Its another thing to try and use two small batteries to drive a much larger HP motor, and to have it reach RPMs that could run a turbo. remember, driving a turbo via exhaust gasses comparted to driving it with an electric motor, (even geared) is a non trivial task. a belt driven supercharger, driven by an electric motor is concievable, and there actually is a drag racing version available today by a specialty manufacturer which uses 3 starter motors tied to a supercharger. ( 1000amps, 8psi boost, 300cfm).
the point is, to do all this work to have a turbo /supercharger to make 5-7psi for 15 seconds seems arguable, as just belting up a standared centrifugal supercharger to a belt from a pulley could do the job and you dont have to worry about big amps, charging systems and aux air duct chamber flaps
Sure, im aware it can be done, however, it would be a lot of work. just a spare 3.8hp electric motor will not do the trick. as it is now, we are using the small dc brush motors that can handle 55amps for short duration and give the small gains we claim. (ie 5-10hp range for $300)
Im sure that a multistage axial flow fan or a centrifugal blower running off a geared UP high speed electrical motor may do the trick. Remember, to gear up an electric motor is not that easy either. if you have a big 3.8hp motor spinning at 3000, a 5:1 or even a 10:1 pully system would be needed to run a turbo at 15 to 30,000rpm. hardly the RPM needed to produce any usable pressure, not to mention air flow. Again, it can be done, but there just are not any Large electric motors available that can turn the RPMs you need to do the task. and even if they have the HP, you then need to get the gearing part right.
You said it yourself, the corvette folks said it takes 1.9HP per lb of boost for a 350 ci engine. if that is the case, I dont care how you do it, it will still cost slightly more, as the efficiency of gearing and the motor would at least double the requirements. (ie 1.9hp per lb of boost going to 4HP per lb of boost on a 350ci engine as the electric motor eff. will be 70% and the gearing up eff. will be at best, 80%) so, at 5psi boost, you would need 15,000 watts input, or 600amps at 24volts. it would take more than a couple of 60amp what evers to do this. You asked the question, that is the answer. Now the logical question, is how do you get 600amps to this " 3.8hp " device that is only able to drive 1psi for a 350chevy motor anyway? As has been stated before, a bolt on 5psi supercharger on cars that have them installed today, require about 20hp mechanically. meaning, you need at least 50-100% more input watts electrically to acheive the net mechanical output of 20hp.
Now, how is this going to work with the batteries?? at 24volts and 600amps, you would need 2 large lead acid batteries in series. even two large ones, would only give 30seconds of operation to the supercharger. each battery would require 60-100amp hours or current.
All this means, you COULD have a device ok for drag racing, but that a lot of weight to carry around too!! (ie 10-30lbs of motor, and 50-80lbs of batteries)
It would be a challenge, but yes, it could be done, but its going to cost a lot of $$$
you asked for some comments, and these are mine.
MK
.
How do I know? That's what it says on the turbo inlet housing. I suggest you contact AirResearch if you want to know more about that turbo.
How do you know what type motorcycle battery I'm going to install and how do you know what an unspecified motorcycle battery costs? I haven't figured that out yet but maybe you can see into the future. I can't.
I have already admitted to having to use two intake ducts for when the turbo compressor is on or off. A simple flap arrangment will work fine.
Where do you see my electric motor will only turn 3000 RPM? You don't even know what the .95 turbo designation means so how do you know what RPM the compressor must run to make the boost I want?
As far as I'm concerned, your entire posts are non sequitur.
BTW, I am considered by many to be the #1 expert in world on the electric motors used in radio controlled racing cars and this concept is just a little bigger. I also have a published book on the subject, BIG JIM's R/C Motor Black Book, published by Trafford Publishing.
I say this to assure you I am probably more aware of what a properly designed and applied electric motor can do than most people.
Electric motor power can be doubled for short periods by doubling the voltage input. Not a hard concept to understand. I'll put in the power until I get the boost I want. After all, it will only work at wide-open throttle for a few seconds at a time. I mean, how much can you use 500 HP on the street at one time. Considering I'm making 371HP now at 450 ft.lbs. of torque, 500HP is not an unrealistic goal.
As I said, I'm not plannng to ever sell a device like this. It's just for fun and to show the "experts" it can be done. Maybe my posts will spark someone with the resources out there to undertake the venture and put on the market a REAL electric forced-induction appartus. Sure, it will cost more probably than $300 but at least it will do something worthwhile.
the point is, to do all this work to have a turbo /supercharger to make 5-7psi for 15 seconds seems arguable, as just belting up a standared centrifugal supercharger to a belt from a pulley could do the job and you dont have to worry about big amps, charging systems and aux air duct chamber flaps
Sure, im aware it can be done, however, it would be a lot of work. just a spare 3.8hp electric motor will not do the trick. as it is now, we are using the small dc brush motors that can handle 55amps for short duration and give the small gains we claim. (ie 5-10hp range for $300)
Im sure that a multistage axial flow fan or a centrifugal blower running off a geared UP high speed electrical motor may do the trick. Remember, to gear up an electric motor is not that easy either. if you have a big 3.8hp motor spinning at 3000, a 5:1 or even a 10:1 pully system would be needed to run a turbo at 15 to 30,000rpm. hardly the RPM needed to produce any usable pressure, not to mention air flow. Again, it can be done, but there just are not any Large electric motors available that can turn the RPMs you need to do the task. and even if they have the HP, you then need to get the gearing part right.
You said it yourself, the corvette folks said it takes 1.9HP per lb of boost for a 350 ci engine. if that is the case, I dont care how you do it, it will still cost slightly more, as the efficiency of gearing and the motor would at least double the requirements. (ie 1.9hp per lb of boost going to 4HP per lb of boost on a 350ci engine as the electric motor eff. will be 70% and the gearing up eff. will be at best, 80%) so, at 5psi boost, you would need 15,000 watts input, or 600amps at 24volts. it would take more than a couple of 60amp what evers to do this. You asked the question, that is the answer. Now the logical question, is how do you get 600amps to this " 3.8hp " device that is only able to drive 1psi for a 350chevy motor anyway? As has been stated before, a bolt on 5psi supercharger on cars that have them installed today, require about 20hp mechanically. meaning, you need at least 50-100% more input watts electrically to acheive the net mechanical output of 20hp.
Now, how is this going to work with the batteries?? at 24volts and 600amps, you would need 2 large lead acid batteries in series. even two large ones, would only give 30seconds of operation to the supercharger. each battery would require 60-100amp hours or current.
All this means, you COULD have a device ok for drag racing, but that a lot of weight to carry around too!! (ie 10-30lbs of motor, and 50-80lbs of batteries)
It would be a challenge, but yes, it could be done, but its going to cost a lot of $$$
you asked for some comments, and these are mine.
MK
.
How do I know? That's what it says on the turbo inlet housing. I suggest you contact AirResearch if you want to know more about that turbo.
How do you know what type motorcycle battery I'm going to install and how do you know what an unspecified motorcycle battery costs? I haven't figured that out yet but maybe you can see into the future. I can't.
I have already admitted to having to use two intake ducts for when the turbo compressor is on or off. A simple flap arrangment will work fine.
Where do you see my electric motor will only turn 3000 RPM? You don't even know what the .95 turbo designation means so how do you know what RPM the compressor must run to make the boost I want?
As far as I'm concerned, your entire posts are non sequitur.
BTW, I am considered by many to be the #1 expert in world on the electric motors used in radio controlled racing cars and this concept is just a little bigger. I also have a published book on the subject, BIG JIM's R/C Motor Black Book, published by Trafford Publishing.
I say this to assure you I am probably more aware of what a properly designed and applied electric motor can do than most people.
Electric motor power can be doubled for short periods by doubling the voltage input. Not a hard concept to understand. I'll put in the power until I get the boost I want. After all, it will only work at wide-open throttle for a few seconds at a time. I mean, how much can you use 500 HP on the street at one time. Considering I'm making 371HP now at 450 ft.lbs. of torque, 500HP is not an unrealistic goal.
As I said, I'm not plannng to ever sell a device like this. It's just for fun and to show the "experts" it can be done. Maybe my posts will spark someone with the resources out there to undertake the venture and put on the market a REAL electric forced-induction appartus. Sure, it will cost more probably than $300 but at least it will do something worthwhile.
xproductionz
03-05-2004, 11:27 PM
you know what... i was just reading around a bit and found this forum about superchargers.... well guess what.. i have the super e-ram from www.electricsupercharger.com and i was too skeptical but i had to money to burn... so i figured i would go ahead and get the best model they had which is a dual blower setup and has a screen behind the fans so nothing goes into the intake... i definitely felt the difference and i was even more skeptical so i went down to get the car dyno tested... the product claimed 27hp but when we tersted it there was a gain of 22hp... i was also skeptical about the psi so we got that measured..product claimed 1.7psi but we measured 1.97psi... thats nearly 2psi boost....good part about it is that its instant power through only rpm range..basically anytime you go wide open throttle... next thing i did was got the thing removed a few months later and got a turbo kit put it.. there is not nearly alot of lag as people ssay there is..just depends on the size of the turbo for spooling thats all.... but anyways i didnt want the electric supercharger to go to waste... so i put it right before the air goes into the intercooler....now my lag is gone as long only when i go wide open throttle...plus it gives me instant boost on my low rpms which i think is a plus
94tegRS
03-05-2004, 11:39 PM
wow this is old, anyways even at low rpms' when you floor it, I dont think that little thing is compressing all the air in the intercooler and the charge pipe and the intake manifold by the time the turbo is spooled, MAYBE it was doing something before, and I guess il believe it cuz unles you were trying to sell it you wouldnt lie I dont think, but it was inline close to the TB, nopt much ot compress, but now you got a big intercooler and all that charge pipe and I dont think it is doing anything, like i said first, your turbo is spooled before the little fan has compressed all the air in the intercooler and charge pipe, by the way you said it I am thinking yopu got it instaled between the turbo and the intercooler inlet pipe right?
xproductionz
03-06-2004, 12:09 AM
haha..i know yea...this forum is old... but let me clarify where the e-ram is according to air flow.....before the e-ram was in stalled it look like this.. AIRFILTER>>INTERCOOLER>>TURBO>>THROTTLEBODY... originally i was going to put the e-ram all the way next to the filter but iwas tld the same thing you said...it would require to much to compress... so now my setup is as follows... AIRFILTER>>INTERCOOLER>>E-RAM>>TURBO>>THROTTLE BODY.. i was also thinking of placing the e-ram after the turbo between the turbo and throttle body but i ddint want to take the risk of the e-ram not being able to handle all of the boost from the turbo when it spools up...haha.. ur right im not trying to sell the product.. but i thought i would just say my experience with it...
94tegRS
03-06-2004, 12:11 AM
you got the intercooler before the turbo??? ok STOP talking right now, you dont have a CLUE what you are talking about
thunderbird muscle
03-06-2004, 10:22 PM
I test drove a t-bird s/c. What is so great about the s/c being supercharged my 4.6 95 thunderbird actually has more power and a better exhaust note. Why super charge when you can get more motor. Now when you get a V8 with a supercharger on it then you have really accomplished something. Well I do have to give the S/C better gas mileage
littledevilbkr23
11-02-2004, 08:25 PM
ok dangerranger02, yea youve seen the supercharger that electric, im in the automotive course at votec, its a course were students learn the automotive industry. we ordered one of thema nd payed 450 bucks. we took a stoick honda civic put in on dyno and came up wit 125 hp at peak, we put the supercharger on, came up with 134 hp at peak and a whole lotta pissed of people couse it was a waste of oney that we could of used for other stuff in class. so the thing is, dont get one, tis not worth it, if your gonan ut a supercharger on your vehicle, put a real one, use american muscle to, dont put it on a civic
94tegRS
11-26-2004, 02:33 PM
ok dangerranger02, yea youve seen the supercharger that electric, im in the automotive course at votec, its a course were students learn the automotive industry. we ordered one of thema nd payed 450 bucks. we took a stoick honda civic put in on dyno and came up wit 125 hp at peak, we put the supercharger on, came up with 134 hp at peak and a whole lotta pissed of people couse it was a waste of oney that we could of used for other stuff in class. so the thing is, dont get one, tis not worth it, if your gonan ut a supercharger on your vehicle, put a real one, use american muscle to, dont put it on a civic
damn, do you know how old this is?
anyways I am guessing you are talking the civic SI cuz a SOHC is never gonna dyno 125 stock. and 9WHP for 450 isnt really too bad, sure 100 bucks more and you could have had 55WHP more, but not alot of people wanna spray their rides.
think about how much people spend on simple bolt ons
AEM CAI about 200
DC sports header about 300
greddy exhaust about 500
theres around 1000 bucks for about the same HP increase, maybe a tad more.
I still owuld never put a plastic, electric supercharger on anything I own now or ever will own.
damn, do you know how old this is?
anyways I am guessing you are talking the civic SI cuz a SOHC is never gonna dyno 125 stock. and 9WHP for 450 isnt really too bad, sure 100 bucks more and you could have had 55WHP more, but not alot of people wanna spray their rides.
think about how much people spend on simple bolt ons
AEM CAI about 200
DC sports header about 300
greddy exhaust about 500
theres around 1000 bucks for about the same HP increase, maybe a tad more.
I still owuld never put a plastic, electric supercharger on anything I own now or ever will own.
nose-gobblin
11-29-2004, 02:39 PM
its goota be real it shows a picture of some asian chick holding it, thus its real LOL
phatmitz
12-03-2004, 03:28 AM
skoobysnkz
12-09-2004, 05:42 PM
Im not tryin to burst your bubble Jim but I know a lil about electrical theory and circuits (I'm an electrician) so I just wanted to suggest a money saving addition to your system. An electric motor draws much higher amperage than the nameplate rating as it is starting. Sometimes 10x depending on the type of motor. I would suggest installing at least 1 1f capacitor (aprox $80 apeice at your local car stereo store) in parrallel with each of your motorcycle batteries. This will not alleviate all of the extra strain on the batteries but will greatly reduce it as the capacitors will supply current to maintain the same voltage (capacitor resist change in voltage). This will prevent you from buying new batteries once a month.
Casey
Your friendly neighborhood electrical guy
[QUOTE=BIG JIM 54]Well actually....
Second, why does everyone believe you have to drive an electric motor with only 12 volts just because that's what the car is wired with?
...
Still so far, I know you're thinking it's impossible. I'm not done yet. The motor will be powered by 2 small motorcycle batteries in the engine compartment hooked up in series to supply the 24 volts. They will be charged in parallel by the car's alternator. They do nothing but turn on the motor at WOT only. The engine's throttle body will have mounted a small push button off-on switch wired into 2 Ford 60A starter relays that will send power to the electric motor running the turbo impeller when I put my foot in it. Even with 24 volts, it will require 118 amps for a motor to make 3.8HP. That's why the 2 60A relays. I don't think that electric motor will need all of it's 3.8HP to make my target boost level.
Casey
Your friendly neighborhood electrical guy
[QUOTE=BIG JIM 54]Well actually....
Second, why does everyone believe you have to drive an electric motor with only 12 volts just because that's what the car is wired with?
...
Still so far, I know you're thinking it's impossible. I'm not done yet. The motor will be powered by 2 small motorcycle batteries in the engine compartment hooked up in series to supply the 24 volts. They will be charged in parallel by the car's alternator. They do nothing but turn on the motor at WOT only. The engine's throttle body will have mounted a small push button off-on switch wired into 2 Ford 60A starter relays that will send power to the electric motor running the turbo impeller when I put my foot in it. Even with 24 volts, it will require 118 amps for a motor to make 3.8HP. That's why the 2 60A relays. I don't think that electric motor will need all of it's 3.8HP to make my target boost level.
behvah78
12-15-2004, 12:09 PM
Would these e-superchargers be anygood in combo with an exhasut cut-out? (To increase exhast flow)
DTMx
11-16-2005, 06:30 AM
Wow, long thread, I have had a general read over and my following contribution isn't directed at anyone or their statement in particular except 94's comment to production which I will address first.
How in the line of things can the intercooler come after the turbo, I admit I aint a mechanic or nuclear scientist but I do race alot of cars and it would seem rather pointless to cool the air after it has been through the turbo unless there is a penguin living in your backbox of course, I thought the whole Idea behind it was the intercooler cools the air to inject back into the turbo because cold air is more dense than hot air therefore giving more power???
anyway back on topic, Electric superchargers, I agree with comments years back at the beginning of the thread that it would be kinda pointless putting an electric supercharger on a big 5L etc because to my knowledge the suction of such a big engine would far surpass a fan of anykind powered by a battery, I mean lets get serious if they did I am sure they would come as standard in cars off the factory floor. However not all the world runs on americas theory that bigger is better and most european cars (1.4L-2.0L) probably would see some benefit I am saying this on the basis that due to the crap regulations we have over here (UK) alot of cars are tuned down in many areas to comply to regulations even BMW & MERC have to restrict their engine performance. Induction kits kits are really a first stage upgrade to airflow and often do have some may it be little improvement so the concept of an electric supercharger is more than plausable but I think for different reasons that have been stated, I agree that you can only force so much air in and that in most cases suction formt eh engine would be greater than that provided but you have to look at how the air gets from A to B, on its own the air is scooped into the engine freely where with an electric supercharger it is forced in through a fan which spirals the air creating a tornado like effect making it travel colder, faster and with a much higher density. Like I said I aint a scientist but I have had quite a few fans on my desk in summertime and they are alot better than the breeze from the nearby window ;-)
How in the line of things can the intercooler come after the turbo, I admit I aint a mechanic or nuclear scientist but I do race alot of cars and it would seem rather pointless to cool the air after it has been through the turbo unless there is a penguin living in your backbox of course, I thought the whole Idea behind it was the intercooler cools the air to inject back into the turbo because cold air is more dense than hot air therefore giving more power???
anyway back on topic, Electric superchargers, I agree with comments years back at the beginning of the thread that it would be kinda pointless putting an electric supercharger on a big 5L etc because to my knowledge the suction of such a big engine would far surpass a fan of anykind powered by a battery, I mean lets get serious if they did I am sure they would come as standard in cars off the factory floor. However not all the world runs on americas theory that bigger is better and most european cars (1.4L-2.0L) probably would see some benefit I am saying this on the basis that due to the crap regulations we have over here (UK) alot of cars are tuned down in many areas to comply to regulations even BMW & MERC have to restrict their engine performance. Induction kits kits are really a first stage upgrade to airflow and often do have some may it be little improvement so the concept of an electric supercharger is more than plausable but I think for different reasons that have been stated, I agree that you can only force so much air in and that in most cases suction formt eh engine would be greater than that provided but you have to look at how the air gets from A to B, on its own the air is scooped into the engine freely where with an electric supercharger it is forced in through a fan which spirals the air creating a tornado like effect making it travel colder, faster and with a much higher density. Like I said I aint a scientist but I have had quite a few fans on my desk in summertime and they are alot better than the breeze from the nearby window ;-)
67firebird
11-28-2005, 12:59 PM
Wow, long thread, I have had a general read over and my following contribution isn't directed at anyone or their statement in particular except 94's comment to production which I will address first.
How in the line of things can the intercooler come after the turbo, I admit I aint a mechanic or nuclear scientist but I do race alot of cars and it would seem rather pointless to cool the air after it has been through the turbo unless there is a penguin living in your backbox of course, I thought the whole Idea behind it was the intercooler cools the air to inject back into the turbo because cold air is more dense than hot air therefore giving more power???
anyway back on topic, Electric superchargers, I agree with comments years back at the beginning of the thread that it would be kinda pointless putting an electric supercharger on a big 5L etc because to my knowledge the suction of such a big engine would far surpass a fan of anykind powered by a battery, I mean lets get serious if they did I am sure they would come as standard in cars off the factory floor. However not all the world runs on americas theory that bigger is better and most european cars (1.4L-2.0L) probably would see some benefit I am saying this on the basis that due to the crap regulations we have over here (UK) alot of cars are tuned down in many areas to comply to regulations even BMW & MERC have to restrict their engine performance. Induction kits kits are really a first stage upgrade to airflow and often do have some may it be little improvement so the concept of an electric supercharger is more than plausable but I think for different reasons that have been stated, I agree that you can only force so much air in and that in most cases suction formt eh engine would be greater than that provided but you have to look at how the air gets from A to B, on its own the air is scooped into the engine freely where with an electric supercharger it is forced in through a fan which spirals the air creating a tornado like effect making it travel colder, faster and with a much higher density. Like I said I aint a scientist but I have had quite a few fans on my desk in summertime and they are alot better than the breeze from the nearby window ;-)
The intercooler comes after the turbo or supercharger because when you compress the air is gets hot so you put the intercooler after to lower the temp of the air this makes the air more dense and lets you run more boost and fuel creating more power.
:2cents:
How in the line of things can the intercooler come after the turbo, I admit I aint a mechanic or nuclear scientist but I do race alot of cars and it would seem rather pointless to cool the air after it has been through the turbo unless there is a penguin living in your backbox of course, I thought the whole Idea behind it was the intercooler cools the air to inject back into the turbo because cold air is more dense than hot air therefore giving more power???
anyway back on topic, Electric superchargers, I agree with comments years back at the beginning of the thread that it would be kinda pointless putting an electric supercharger on a big 5L etc because to my knowledge the suction of such a big engine would far surpass a fan of anykind powered by a battery, I mean lets get serious if they did I am sure they would come as standard in cars off the factory floor. However not all the world runs on americas theory that bigger is better and most european cars (1.4L-2.0L) probably would see some benefit I am saying this on the basis that due to the crap regulations we have over here (UK) alot of cars are tuned down in many areas to comply to regulations even BMW & MERC have to restrict their engine performance. Induction kits kits are really a first stage upgrade to airflow and often do have some may it be little improvement so the concept of an electric supercharger is more than plausable but I think for different reasons that have been stated, I agree that you can only force so much air in and that in most cases suction formt eh engine would be greater than that provided but you have to look at how the air gets from A to B, on its own the air is scooped into the engine freely where with an electric supercharger it is forced in through a fan which spirals the air creating a tornado like effect making it travel colder, faster and with a much higher density. Like I said I aint a scientist but I have had quite a few fans on my desk in summertime and they are alot better than the breeze from the nearby window ;-)
The intercooler comes after the turbo or supercharger because when you compress the air is gets hot so you put the intercooler after to lower the temp of the air this makes the air more dense and lets you run more boost and fuel creating more power.
:2cents:
RayNL78
07-05-2007, 08:00 PM
I am not even sure if anyone reads this forum still but I had to leave my mark. If you go on Ebay and look up performance boosters you will be up to your elbows in cheap junk that might give you some immediate feeling of more power until you are stuck sitting on the side of the road with smoke billowing out of your hood. They prey on young kids with an urge to go fast and a small budget. The important thing I have yet to see anyone mention is the performance chip that comes with this supposed E-Supercharger. It will change your comp settings just enough for you to say "WOW!! I am going faster."
This product is all smoke and mirrors
If you get into a hurry to go fast......You will see how slow walking to work can really be
This product is all smoke and mirrors
If you get into a hurry to go fast......You will see how slow walking to work can really be
Shaddowfax
02-21-2013, 10:56 AM
Do your investigating before you claim how good and cheap electric superchargers are. The really cheap ones fall apart or break (plastic parts made in China) PLUS they have a tendancy to reduce gas mileage from 3-6 mpg. There are a very few relatively OK ones but even they only boost horsepower by 25-35 horses with gas mileage going up from 2-5 mpg. These are in the expensive range for most people going anywhere from about $400-$800. Even the $800 ones only give 1.7 pounds of boost while the $50 ones put out about as much air as a small fan. Completely useless by any definition.
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