www.purenissan.com/t-case_gear_reduction.htm

How come you are not bitching about the $1300 price tag like you bitched about the possible $1500 cost of the Rockhopper gears? Did they set the price based on what Rockhopper is possibly setting theirs at? Hopefully this week I will have more info on the Rockhopper gears, now if Eaton released the 3.8's we would have lots of choices and the prices could possibly drop.

Sorry, yes, they are expensive considering the Suzuki gearset is $975.

Eaton is not making gearing as far as I know, just e-lockers.

Oh, I thought they were going to be cheaper than that.

I know they are closed today but if anybody has an answer: Will there be any probs in fitting these in a Hardbody truck? As far as I know the t-case is the same as you X/Frontier boys.

I have been thinking about getting one of these gear sets.

Being a newbie at this 4x4 stuff, I asked a local guru.
His reply was: "For rock crawling like Moab or the Rubicon, great
but for local conditions (Pacific NW) where we typically have loose
soils then wheel speed is probably more important."

Other 4x4'ers ask: "Do you have a manual or automatic?"
Automatic. "Then don't worry about it, the torque converter
will help a lot"

Your comments?


Toy Man the grasshopper

With the Xterra clutch I would appreciate having lower gearing even in the PNW.

I agree with Schlud that with a clutch we do need some real low speed creeping! It would help on the steep up hills trying to feather the clutch.

we all can use lower gears for offroading. regardless of tranny. how's that? :)

Whether you need these gears depends on the surfaces you normally frequent. If you frequent mud, snow or sand, stay away from them. If you are a climber or a rock crawler, get them. They will fail you in situations that require wheel speed but help in areas that do not.

Originally posted by warmonger
They will fail you in situations that require wheel speed but help in areas that do not.

I DO NOT want to start a flame war, but I did want to comment on this statement. The gear reduction is for low range only. I would think that high wheel speeds in 4WD would be done in 4HI. I do agree, if your not in situations that require slow steady speed, the gear would not be for you. One thing that I dislike with my automatic is going down a good hill with more speed than I like and even with gentle even braking, sometimes that is enough to start to upset the Xterra...with weight transfer etc. This gear would really help the auto's (IMHO) especially in this area.

Just got off the phone with Steve and good things are coming to the Xterra from Calmini. I cannot confirm or deny the following: locker choices, ring and pinions or if they are "stress testing" the t-case reduction gear today (which might be passing with no problems) or that the rear tire carier might be ready late Sept (earlier if lucky) and the reduction gears might be as soon as 2 months out.

What I can say freely is that Steve is still determining how far to take the Xterra. So, he needs input. If the Calmini stuff is on the "wish list" or the "buy ASAP" list, please let Steve know!

-Ned

Ned,

I think we will have to agree to disagree, and I will tell you why. It is all due to horsepower or the Xterras lack thereof. If you plan on running mud in an X, you will be doing it in low range. Everyone here comes from a different background and geographical location. Here in Florida we have two surfaces to off-road in, mud and sand. After several years of racing a Jeep in the mud, I can tell you that hp is king. Without it you have to have low range. Sorry, no flame war, just stating the facts here in Florida. But too low a range and it is deterimental. That's why I will not put a gear lower than 3.00/1 in my X. If I can increase the power to weight ratio, I will be able to run mud in high range. Until then, low range is it.

Originally posted by warmonger
Whether you need these gears depends on the surfaces you normally frequent. If you frequent mud, snow or sand, stay away from them. If you are a climber or a rock crawler, get them. They will fail you in situations that require wheel speed but help in areas that do not.

What a load of nonsense.

If you need wheel speed, try shifting to 2nd, or 3rd, or 4th or 5th.

Lower transfer case gearing is the best addition to the Xterra one can make. The stock 2.02:1 is pitiful, regardless of the terrain.

Originally posted by warmonger
mud and sand

Yeah, I see where your coming from now. I'm sorta obsessed with the rock crawling thing (and yes, I know, the Xterra will never be a rock crawler). I've always liked the idea of gently walking through a rock garden, suspension flexing, lockers kicking, with the occasional snap of metal (okay, maybe not the last part!). But yeah, 4Hi has no torque and an ultra low 4Lo would be a little slow, stock low might be best to carry you through the mud.

My next question would be, you guys working on an alternator alternative?:D

Well amazingly I might have something to add to this discussion. While it is true that wheel speed and hp is king in the sand you run into another problem in big sand dunes. The terrain most accessible to me is red sands which is a huge area of giant sand dunes. The X cannot climb without digging in in 4 hi. You have to go in 4 lo and go from 1 to 2 and not really touch drive at all. (this is in an automatic.) So you need not only some wheel speed but also some steady strong turning to get up there. If your wheels spin too fast on the way up gravity will take over and you will just dig a hole. If the terrain you are dealing with is similar to this then the new gears probably wont help you. Not enough speed on the way up.

Originally posted by ned946

My next question would be, you guys working on an alternator alternative?:D

I e-mailed Premier Power Welder about 6 months ago and was told that the Xterra has a standard "small case alternator with saddle mount." They said they had one that would fit, but I never inquired about it any further.

This is a little disappointing XOC. If you upshift in an Xterra to 2nd, 3rd or 4th as you state, the truck bogs and dies in the mud and sand. I think if you ever find your way to Florida I will take you out to a couple of our play areas and give you a demonstration. We don't have rocks to crawl here, so mud and sand are it and because of the time spent in those surfaces, we do know it well. I think instead of insulting me, you should try to run a 100 yard mudhole with a 3.6/1 transfer case gear. If you can't spin the tires fast enough, they clog and stick, especially in a low hp truck like the X. Also keep in mind that running mud and sand here is far superior in an automatic transmission. If you shove in a clutch, the sand or mud is like slamming on the brakes. In a manual you have to speed shift without the clutch. Otherwise you wind up buried. I wouldn't insult you on rock crawling and would appreciate the same consideration in my element.

Originally posted by xoc


What a load of nonsense.

If you need wheel speed, try shifting to 2nd, or 3rd, or 4th or 5th.

Lower transfer case gearing is the best addition to the Xterra one can make. The stock 2.02:1 is pitiful, regardless of the terrain.

Originally posted by warmonger
If you upshift in an Xterra to 2nd, 3rd or 4th as you state, the truck bogs and dies in the mud and sand. I think if you ever find your way to Florida I will take you out to a couple of our play areas and give you a demonstration.

I don't need a demonstration. I spent 3 years living in Hollywood Florida, and plenty of time in the Everglades with my 1990 Toyota pickup, so I know how to drive in gumbo.

Quite simply, your logic is flawed.

Simply pick the correct gear to attain the RPM and wheel speed you require, it's that simple.

For example, in a stock Xterra, if 1st gear Lo is fine, use it. With the Calmini gearset, use 2nd gear Lo instead. If you need 2nd gear stock, use 3rd or 4th with the Calmini gears.

I would have no trouble with your 100 yard mud hole. I would simply select the right gear for the situation, be it Hi range or Lo range, there are 10 to choose from.

With all the knowledge you claim, you should know to always be in the right gear before you need it.

Originally posted by warmonger
If you can't spin the tires fast enough, they clog and stick, especially in a low hp truck like the X


Have you guys broken many parts? It seems as if on occasion, the tires would grab a firm surface under the mud and stop a spinning wheel very quickly. I have read in mags that sand and mud are very stressful on the drivetrain.

XOC,

Well, you feel my logic is flawed and I feel your is, so that makes us even. I think your logic is flawed because you have failed to factor in automatic transmissions. For the normal mud runner, you have enough hp to run it in 4 hi and 4 lo is not a factor. In those cases, do whatever you want to with the 4 lo on the t-case. It doesn't matter. But in a low hp situation it does. If you drop the t-case gearing too low, you will defeat your purpose. You might have gear selection available in a manual, but again, you can't shift in the pit unless you know how to speedshift and are willing to risk scrapping the clutch. An automatic requires more hp to turn, but can shift in the pit allowing you to attain higher wheel speeds. Each has advantages and disadvantages and since I am obviously inferior, I will defer to your expertise.

Ned,

I haven't broke my X yet since I try not to exceed its limitations. It isn't designed to be a screaming monster at anything, just a general usage truck. I keep that in mind as I off-road. My Jeep on the other hand wasn't my primary transportation vehicle so I wasn't too concerned about breakage. I scrapped three transmissions, an axle and five clutches speed shifting. It was an expensive hobby.

I am following both versions of mud techniques described...and you are both right...you are each really talking about two situations as if they are one (even factoring out the manual/auto factors).

If you are a mud runner, and you are in a situation where four rooster tails are desireable...you need wheel speed to spin the tires fast enough to throw the mud from between the treads...

If you are geared too high...you won't have enough torque to turn those big boggers...and you get bogged down/stalled.

If you are geared too low, you can't spin them fast enough to clean the lugs...and you are spinning slicks...and you get bogged down.

The variable is the speed you need to clean the lugs.

A smaller diameter tire will have a slower surface velocity for the same gearing, which applies less centrifugal force on the lug bound glop....so - more trouble cleaning the tread lugs.

Higher void space lugs will hold larger glops of gumbo that are more susceptable to the involved centrifugal forces..

...so the ideal tire is a giant paddle wheel.

The bigger the paddle wheel, the more torque you need to turn it...A bigger wheel, if you think about it...is a higher final drive ratio.

If you get larger diameter tires, lower gearing may merely return you to a stock final drive ratio.

When all is said and done...the bottom line is how fast can the tire turn against the planned resistance...if it can still spin fast enough to clean the lugs...you're OK.

I refuse to do anymore math today...Draim Bramidge...

If you are geared high enough to spin the tire at 25 - 40 mph on the speedometer, and have the transmission gearing to give you enough torque at that speed to avoid bogging down...I think you'll be fine most of the time.

I personally don't spin through mud much...I try to feather the throttle and match tire speed to travel speed, with an occaisional blip to clear the tread when I need it, and sawing of the steering, working the ruts, etc... to claw for traction as I can find it...its more my style...given my typically underpowered, un giant paddle wheeled, company rides. (I like rocks more than mud...more pucker factor, less mess, and fewer Pine Stripes.)