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Water


jessep28
04-29-2006, 11:15 PM
Again, my GP has every problem known to this model. I'm beginning to wonder if this car is curesed...lol

Anyways, my passenger side floor was soaked with water after a good rain. I ran my carpet shampoo machine and sucked a ton of water out...needless to say it was nasty.

I believe water is coming from under the dash, I could feel that area was a tad wet. However, the carpet that goes up to that area is dry.

Anyways, on reading the remedies, will a cabin air filter just fix the problem or will I need to check the cowel seals etc? Would the seal job be an easy DIY? How does one tell if the seals are bad?

Also, will the carpet be okay? I'm just worried about a musty smell. I think I will be okay since I jumped on it and got all if not most of the water out ASAP.

Thanks again.

GTP Dad
04-30-2006, 08:19 AM
Pull the wiper arms off and remove the black cover at the bottom of the windshield. On the passenger side there is a black piece of rubber that channels water to a hole that drains outside. The glue for these goes bad and the rubber drops down and allows water to drain into the fan and into the car. Check this and if it has dropped down reglue it and the leak should go away.

jessep28
04-30-2006, 11:46 AM
What is the best adhesive to reglue the rubber?

StevePT
05-04-2006, 10:37 AM
Use 3M Weatherstrip adhesive and don't shy away from using too much of it.

jessep28
05-04-2006, 11:16 AM
I had a bad door seal on my pass side too. That may have contributed but probably didn't as much as the cowl deflector.

richtazz
05-04-2006, 01:40 PM
Put a cabin air filter from a same year Regal in your heater box. The spot is there for it, they just don't put them in from the factory on Grand Prix's. The cabin air filter helps channel the water away as well as keeps leaves, dirt and debris out of your blower motor.

Furbert2
05-04-2006, 08:01 PM
Again, my GP has every problem known to this model. I'm beginning to wonder if this car is curesed...lol

Anyways, my passenger side floor was soaked with water after a good rain. I ran my carpet shampoo machine and sucked a ton of water out...needless to say it was nasty.

I believe water is coming from under the dash, I could feel that area was a tad wet. However, the carpet that goes up to that area is dry.

Anyways, on reading the remedies, will a cabin air filter just fix the problem or will I need to check the cowel seals etc? Would the seal job be an easy DIY? How does one tell if the seals are bad?

Also, will the carpet be okay? I'm just worried about a musty smell. I think I will be okay since I jumped on it and got all if not most of the water out ASAP.

Thanks again.
You might get a chuckle out of my fix. Of course the dealer could not figure out what was wrong so I put plastic over the air intake on the drivers side and have not had any more swimming pools. It is nice to read about a fix for the problem. Thanks

mike561
05-05-2006, 10:41 AM
It scares me to see how many people have this common problem with these cars, ive seen several posts about this. mine doesnt leak from anywhere but i should clean out the drain tubing anyways, if i remember correctly, you can acess that area from under the plastic peice that goes under the wipers right??

richtazz
05-05-2006, 10:59 AM
GM uses a wimpy sealant on that seam that just doesn't hold up, probably made by the same company that it gets it's intake gaskets from. :evillol:

jessep28
05-08-2006, 01:10 AM
Sorry to bring this up from the dead. Bnaylor, is this a problem with the Regal as well? A buddy of mine who is a rent-a-cop at night. His company car, a Regal GS, has had water on the pass side floor coming from the same general area.

I can only assume it's the same thing.

BNaylor
05-08-2006, 10:07 AM
Sorry to bring this up from the dead. Bnaylor, is this a problem with the Regal as well? A buddy of mine who is a rent-a-cop at night. His company car, a Regal GS, has had water on the pass side floor coming from the same general area.

I can only assume it's the same thing.

What year is this Regal?

The Regals can have the same problems as the Grand Prixs although not as frequent or common. Normally it is the same stuff associated with the cowl sealing. The cowl sealing or evaporative drain by the blower motor clogged. I've never had water leaking in problems with either of my Regals. Of course, we don't get much rain in my area but when it does rain it pours.

I noticed Grand Prixs do have more problems than Regals in this area. Although they are both "W" bodies and share certain parts they were manufactured at different plants. The Regals were made in Oshawa, Canada from day one. Whereas the Grand Prix was made in Fairfax, Kansas up until the 2002 model year. IMO, I believe the Canadians did a better job on overall quality.

Also, all Regals had the cabin air filter installed from the factory which could be a factor.

jessep28
05-08-2006, 10:26 AM
97' or 98' GS.

They had some work done on the wiper motor - maybe they screwed something up and damaged the cowl seal. It could also be the people who work for that company. They beat the c**p out of that car and don't treat it very well. They regularly put the cheaper 89 octane in and use the supercharger.

I warned my buddy, but he just shrugged it off saying it wasn't his car.

The guy who owns the company acquired the car supposidly for $3k and put 7k worth of work into it. Where he went and what they did has a lot to say too.

Anyways, he was having pass side water issues at the same time as me (heavy rain), so I thought that's what was up. Thanks for answering another useless question from me :lol:

BNaylor
05-08-2006, 10:54 AM
97' or 98' GS.

They had some work done on the wiper motor - maybe they screwed something up and damaged the cowl seal. It could also be the people who work for that company. They beat the c**p out of that car and don't treat it very well. They regularly put the cheaper 89 octane in and use the supercharger.

I warned my buddy, but he just shrugged it off saying it wasn't his car.

The guy who owns the company acquired the car supposidly for $3k and put 7k worth of work into it. Where he went and what they did has a lot to say too.

Anyways, he was having pass side water issues at the same time as me (heavy rain), so I thought that's what was up. Thanks for answering another useless question from me :lol:

No problem and you are welcome. The 97 - 98 Regals had this problem below. It is possible the work done to the wiper motor broke the seal if the TSB was previously applied. Although, it covers similar problem Grand Prixs had with the wipers being stuck in the up position it talks about a water deflector and adding a bead of RTV sealant which is one possible entry point of water. See below:


SUBJECT: WINDSHIELD WIPER ARMS/BLADES PARK AT INCORRECT LOCATION (REPLACE WIPER MOTOR CRANK ARM ASSEMBLY, INSTALL DEFLECTOR AND SEAL CRANK ARM COVER)

MODELS: 1997-98 BUICK CENTURY, REGAL 1998 OLDSMOBILE INTRIGUE 1997-98 PONTIAC GRAND PRIX

CONDITION:

SOME OWNERS MAY COMMENT THAT THE WINDSHIELD WIPER ARMS OR BLADES INTERMITTENTLY STOP (PARK) IN A VERTICAL POSITION, RATHER THAN AT THE BASE OF THE WINDSHIELD, WHEN THE WIPER SWITCH IS PLACED IN THE "OFF" POSITION. THEY MAY COMMENT THAT THE CONDITION USUALLY OCCURS AFTER A HEAVY RAIN OR CAR WASH FOLLOWED BY COLD (BELOW FREEZING) TEMPERATURES.

CAUSE:

DURING HEAVY RAINS OR CAR WASHING ENVIRONMENTS, WATER ENTERING THE COWL (PLENUM) THROUGH THE LEAF SCREEN MAY ACCUMULATE AND LATER FREEZE ON THE DEPRESSED PARK ACTUATOR ARM WHICH IS LOCATED ON THE BOTTOM SIDE OF THE WIPER MOTOR CRANK ARM. IF THIS OCCURS, THE ACTUATOR ARM MAY NOT COME IN CONTACT WITH THE METAL TAB ON THE WIPER MOTOR MOUNTING BRACKET WHEN THE WIPER SWITCH IS TURNED OFF, RESULTING IN THE ARMS PARKING IN A VERTICAL POSITION.

CORRECTION:

TO CORRECT THIS CONDITION, REPLACE THE WIPER MOTOR CRANK ARM WITH P/N 12367235 AND INSTALL WATER DEFLECTOR P/N 10411068. ALSO, ADDITIONAL SEALING MATERIAL MUST BE ADDED TO THE CRANK ARM COVER TO IMPROVE THE DEFLECTION AND CHANNELING OF THE WATER AWAY FROM THE CRANK ARM ASSEMBLY.

USE THE FOLLOWING SERVICE PROCEDURE WHEN REPLACING THE CRANK ARM ASSEMBLY, INSTALLING THE NEW WATER DEFLECTOR/RETAINER AND TO IMPROVE THE SEALING OF THE CRANK ARM COVER.

IMPORTANT:

SOME VEHICLES MAY HAVE ALREADY HAD THE WIPER MOTOR CRANK ARM REPLACED. THESE VEHICLES CAN BE IDENTIFIED BY THE BARRIER MATERIAL ALREADY APPLIED OVER THE HOLE IN THE CRANK ARM COVER. SEE FIGURE 3. IF THE CRANK ARM COVER ALREADY HAS THE BARRIER MATERIAL APPLIED, THEN IT IS ONLY NECESSARY TO INSTALL THE NEW WATER DEFLECTOR. DO NOT REPLACE THE CRANK ARM ASSEMBLY ON THOSE VEHICLES. IF THERE ISN'T ANY BARRIER MATERIAL ALREADY APPLIED OVER THE HOLE IN THE CRANK ARM COVER, THEN THE CRANK ARM ASSEMBLY MUST BE REPLACED AND THE NEW WATER DEFLECTOR INSTALLED.

SERVICE PROCEDURE

1. TURN IGNITION SWITCH TO THE "ACCESSORY" POSITION.

2. SET WIPER SWITCH TO THE MAXIMUM "DELAY" POSITION.

3. WAIT FOR THE WIPER ARMS TO CYCLE ONCE AND STOP IN THE "PAUSE" OR "INNERWIPER" POSITION.

4. TURN THE IGNITION SWITCH TO THE "OFF" POSITION WHEN THE WIPER ARMS ARE IN THE "PAUSE" OR "INNERWIPER" POSITION AND NOT MOVING.

IMPORTANT:

BEFORE DISCONNECTING NEGATIVE BATTERY CABLE, RECORD RADIO STATION PRE-SETS.

5. DISCONNECT NEGATIVE BATTERY CABLE.

6. PLACE A PIECE OF MASKING TAPE ON THE WINDSHIELD AT THE TIP OF BOTH WIPER BLADES. THE TAPE WILL BE USED FOR DETERMINING CORRECT WIPER ARM/BLADE POSITIONING DURING REINSTALLATION.

7. DISCONNECT WASHER HOSE FROM BOTH WIPER ARMS.

8. REMOVE ATTACHING NUT FROM EACH WIPER ARM AND REMOVE ARMS USING A STANDARD BATTERY CABLE PULLER.

9. REMOVE REAR HOOD TO COWL SEAL.

10. DISCONNECT WASHER HOSE FROM LEAF SCREEN AND REMOVE LEAF SCREEN.

-- ON BUICK AND OLDSMOBILE MODELS WITH A TWO-PIECE LEAF SCREEN, IT IS ONLY NECESSARY TO REMOVE THE LEFT (DRIVER'S) SIDE.

-- ON PONTIAC MODELS WITH A ONE-PIECE LEAF SCREEN, IT IS NECESSARY TO REMOVE THE COMPLETE LEAF SCREEN.

11. INSPECT FOR BARRIER MATERIAL ON CRANK ARM COVER AS SHOWN IN FIGURE 3.

-- IF BARRIER MATERIAL IS NOT PRESENT, CONTINUE TO STEP 12.

-- IF BARRIER MATERIAL IS PRESENT, PROCEED TO STEP 22.

12. DISCONNECT THE WIPER LINKAGE FROM THE BALL STUD ON THE CRANK ARM USING J 39232. SEE FIGURE 1.

13. REMOVE PLASTIC CRANK ARM COVER.

14. REMOVE WIPER MOTOR CRANK ARM ASSEMBLY RETAINING SCREW AND REMOVE THE CRANK ARM FROM THE WIPER MOTOR SHAFT.

15. TO PROPERLY ALIGN THE NEW CRANK ARM ON THE MOTOR SHAFT, GENTLY PLACE "NEW" CRANK ARM ON THE WIPER MOTOR SHAFT. DO NOT APPLY ANY DOWNWARDS PRESSURE.

IMPORTANT:

CRANK ARM MUST ROTATE FREELY ON MOTOR SHAFT DURING NEXT STEP. IF THE CRANK ARM DOES NOT MOVE FREELY, REMOVE IT AND RE-PERFORM STEP #14.

16. INSTALL NEW CRANK ARM ASSEMBLY ON THE WIPER MOTOR SHAFT WHILE MAINTAINING A 4 - 6 MM GAP BETWEEN THE END OF THE DEPRESSED PARK ACTUATOR ARM AND THE METAL TAB. SEE FIGURE 2. PROPER POSITIONING HAS BEEN ACHIEVED IF A 13/64 DRILL BIT CAN BE INSERTED DOWN THROUGH THE CENTER OF THE HOLE IN THE TOP OF THE CRANK ARM AND INTO THE THREADED HOLE IN THE MOTOR HOUSING. SEE FIGURE 1.

IMPORTANT:

FIRMLY HOLD CRANK ARM IN POSITION TO PREVENT THE WIPER MOTOR SHAFT FROM ROTATING WHEN TIGHTENING THE RETAINING SCREW IN THE NEXT STEP.

17. INSTALL CRANK ARM RETAINING SCREW AND TIGHTEN TO 14 - 17 N.M (124 - 150 LB IN).

18. INSTALL PLASTIC CRANK ARM COVER ON CRANK ARM ASSEMBLY.

19. APPLY A BEAD OF SEALANT, P/N 12345739 OR EQUIVALENT, ALONG THE GAP BETWEEN THE CRANK ARM COVER AND THE CRANK ARM AS SHOWN IN FIGURE 3.

20. CUT A 30 MM (1 & 3/16 INCH) SQUARE PIECE OF BARRIER MATERIAL, P/N 11515174 OR EQUIVALENT, AND PLACE IT OVER THE HOLE IN THE CRANK ARM COVER AS SHOWN IN FIGURE 3. APPLY LIGHT PRESSURE TO THE MATERIAL TO ENSURE A GOOD SEAL.

IMPORTANT:

WHEN USED AS INSTRUCTED, THE SEALANT AND BARRIER MATERIAL LISTED ABOVE CAN REPAIR APPROXIMATELY 50 VEHICLES.

21. INSTALL THE WIPER LINKAGE ON THE CRANK ARM BALL STUD USING J 39529.

22. REMOVE THE PUSH-IN PLASTIC RETAINER FROM THE NEW WATER DEFLECTOR AND INSTALL THE DEFLECTOR OVER THE WIPER MOTOR. SEE FIGURE 4. WHEN PROPERLY INSTALLED, THE TOP EDGE OF THE DEFLECTOR WILL FIT BELOW THE BOTTOM EDGE OF THE WINDSHIELD.

23. USING A PENCIL OR SCRIBING TOOL, MARK THE LOCATION OF THE HOLE TO BE DRILLED IN THE WIPER MOTOR MOUNTING BRACKET FOR THE DEFLECTOR PUSH-IN RETAINER. SEE FIGURE 4.

24. REMOVE THE WATER DEFLECTOR AND COVER THE WIPER MOTOR, BRACKET AND PLENUM WITH SHOP TOWELS TO CATCH THE METAL DEBRIS WHEN DRILLING IN THE NEXT STEP.

IMPORTANT:

TO AVOID DAMAGING THE WIPER MOTOR HOUSING IN THE NEXT STEP, A DRILL BIT TRAVEL STOP SET TO A DEPTH OF 1/2 INCH SHOULD BE USED. IF ONE ISN'T AVAILABLE, SLIDE A PIECE OF 1/4 INCH INSIDE DIAMETER VACUUM HOSE OVER THE DRILL BIT LEAVING ONY 1/2 INCH OF THE BIT EXPOSED.

25. DRILL A 1/4 INCH DIAMETER HOLE AT THE LOCATION MARKED ON THE WIPER MOTOR MOUNTING BRACKET.

26. REMOVE THE SHOP TOWELS AND METAL DEBRIS FROM THE WIPER MOTOR, BRACKET AND PLENUM.

27. INSTALL THE NEW WATER DEFLECTOR AS SHOWN IN FIGURE 4 WITH THE PUSH-IN RETAINER IN THE NEW HOLE.

28. REINSTALL LEAF SCREEN.

29. RECONNECT WASHER HOSE TO LEAF SCREEN.

30. REINSTALL REAR HOOD TO COWL SEAL.

IMPORTANT:

BEFORE INSTALLING THE WIPER ARMS ON THE WIPER TRANSMISSIONS, THE KNURLS ON THE TRANSMISSIONS MUST BE CLEAN. USE A SUITABLE WIRE BRUSH FOR CLEANING.

31. WHILE ALIGNING THE TIP OF THE WIPER BLADE WITH THE MASKING TAPE ON THE WINDSHIELD, INSTALL THE WIPER ARMS ON THE WIPER TRANSMISSIONS AND TIGHTEN THE ATTACHING NUTS TO 27 N.M (20 LB FT) REMOVE MASKING TAPE.

32. RECONNECT NEGATIVE BATTERY CABLE, AND RESET CLOCK AND RADIO PRE-SETS.

33. TURN THE IGNITION SWITCH TO THE "ACCESSORY" POSITION.

34. WITH A "DRY" WINDSHIELD, TURN WIPER SWITCH TO THE "OFF" POSITION AND VERIFY THAT WIPERS PARK CORRECTLY.

35. VERIFY THAT ALL WIPER FUNCTIONS (DELAY, LOW, HIGH, WASH, ETC.) OPERATE CORRECTLY.

PARTS INFORMATION:

P/N DESCRIPTION ================= ================================================

12367235 WIPER MOTOR CRANK ARM ASSEMBLY 10411068 DEFLECTOR, WIPER MOTOR WATER (INCLUDES PUSH-IN RETAINER) 12345739 RTV SILICONE RUBBER SEALANT (3.35 OZ TUBE) 11515174 BARRIER MATERIAL

StevePT
05-11-2006, 12:31 AM
I noticed Grand Prixs do have more problems than Regals in this area. Although they are both "W" bodies and share certain parts they were manufactured at different plants. The Regals were made in Oshawa, Canada from day one. Whereas the Grand Prix was made in Fairfax, Kansas up until the 2002 model year. IMO, I believe the Canadians did a better job on overall quality.

Working as an engineer for a large commercial vehicles manufacturer, I laughed when I read this. It's amazing how the same vehicle or very similar vehicles built at two different plants can vary so much in quality. It also depends a lot on the shift and often the day of the week the vehicle is being built.

No matter how automated the process gets, there's still a lot of human intervention and every assembler has his/her way of doing things regardless of how you document the installation and tell them how to do it.

BNaylor
05-11-2006, 07:48 AM
It also depends a lot on the shift and often the day of the week the vehicle is being built.


What day is that?

I'd assume Monday or Friday.

richtazz
05-11-2006, 08:18 AM
Monday= hangover, bad production day
Friday= in a hurry to get out and start on Monday's hangover.

jessep28
05-11-2006, 10:41 AM
All components and final assembly for mine were probably built/started on a Friday and finished on a Monday.

StevePT
05-15-2006, 08:01 PM
What day is that?

I'd assume Monday or Friday.

I believe Monday is worse than Friday because you have a lot of half finished vehicles being started up from Friday's graveyard shift, but one of the bigger factors is the shift. Most people don't want to work afternoons or graveyard, so in order to get to the day shift, they get there through experience. The day shift is usually full of the most experience plant workers and the quality between shifts is sometimes night and day different (no pun intended). Of course the goal of all manufacturers is consistency, it's just an inevitable part of the aspect of manufacturing 24hrs a day and human nature.

I'd say an ideal car would be one built on a wednesday by 1st shift.

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