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2000 GT wheel bearing i think


00GT
04-19-2006, 05:53 PM
2000 GT, 3.8L, 86K.

I have a clicking noise coming from the front right tire. Doesnt change on turning right or left. Usually happens when going straight ahead and only at very slow speeds (5-10 mph). Frequency of the clicking increases with speed. Sometimes the I dont hear the sound for several weeks, but then it comes back. Sound like a wheel bearing?

BNaylor
04-19-2006, 05:57 PM
It is not the wheel bearing itself but the part that drives the wheel sensor within the hub/bearing assembly.

Either way sounds like you need a hub. Rich will give you a good deal on OEM AC Delco hubs.

See pic below of backside of hub:

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y186/lizzywiz/bearing01.jpg

00GT
04-19-2006, 06:23 PM
Thanks for the pic bnaylor! I want to fix this myself. Anything I need to keep in mind while working on this?

BNaylor
04-19-2006, 06:33 PM
Thanks for the pic bnaylor! I want to fix this myself. Anything I need to keep in mind while working on this?

Not really. Hopefully no part is so far gone that needs replacement. Just the same principles apply for removing and installing a hub. Possibly a hub puller if you can't get the hub off the spindle, especially so since you are trying the salvage the existing hub, torque wrench (151 - 184 ft-lbs needed on axle nut) and a 36mm axle nut socket plus breaker bar. Also get some good quality waterproof bearing grease. Good luck!

richtazz
04-20-2006, 11:33 AM
Hey 00GT. I work for an AC-Delco distributor in Flint, MI and can sell you the hubs for $151 each. Shipping would be around $10 for 1, or $18 for two. If you're interested, PM me with your zip code, and I can give you an exact shipping quote and approximate delivery time. If you decide to go with aftermarket brand hubs, avoid any made overseas, regardless of brand name. Chinese hubs that contain ABS sensors are notoriously problematic, and I wouldn't use them.

radeck
04-20-2006, 12:38 PM
Hey 00GT. I work for an AC-Delco distributor in Flint, MI and can sell you the hubs for $151 each. Shipping would be around $10 for 1, or $18 for two. If you're interested, PM me with your zip code, and I can give you an exact shipping quote and approximate delivery time. If you decide to go with aftermarket brand hubs, avoid any made overseas, regardless of brand name. Chinese hubs that contain ABS sensors are notoriously problematic, and I wouldn't use them.
Oh man, where were you when I needed hubs??? AC Delco for $150!!! That's the price you have to pay for chinese at the store. 00 GT Go with delco!

wlkjr
04-20-2006, 06:35 PM
I got mine from Rich and it was about a 3 hour job for me and I'm no whizz. I did break some quality sockets so make sure you have a couple extra 13 and 15mm sockets. I used a 2 jaw puller to remove the hub and it came off rather easily. I saved over $400 from what the dealer quoted me two years ago.

00GT
04-20-2006, 06:41 PM
Rich definitely has a good deal. I'm wondering if I should go ahead and change both front hubs even though only the right one is making the noise right now. wlkjr, did it take you 3 hours to do both?

00GT
04-20-2006, 06:45 PM
Also, do I need to get an alignment done after the fix? Or should I be fine.

wlkjr
04-20-2006, 07:55 PM
Rich definitely has a good deal. I'm wondering if I should go ahead and change both front hubs even though only the right one is making the noise right now. wlkjr, did it take you 3 hours to do both?

I did both at the same time because mine had never been done before and at my mileage I knew both needed it and I couldn't tell which one was doing the roaring. I didn't do any alignment and can't tell any difference. It sure does make a difference how the behaves. With the old ones off I couldn't tell which one was the bad one because neither had loose play or was tight feeling like it was frozen. It's a little aggravating to get them off because of the tight space and working from behind the bearing but overall it's not a horrible job. The bolts on mine were extremely tight so I used a pipe over the end of the ratchet for extra torque for removal. Guess that's why I broke 3 sockets. With help you can probably do it under 3 hours. I would definitely recommend the AC Delcos.

BNaylor
04-20-2006, 08:09 PM
I did both at the same time because mine had never been done before and at my mileage I knew both needed it and I couldn't tell which one was doing the roaring. I didn't do any alignment and can't tell any difference. It sure does make a difference how the behaves. With the old ones off I couldn't tell which one was the bad one because neither had loose play or was tight feeling like it was frozen. It's a little aggravating to get them off because of the tight space and working from behind the bearing but overall it's not a horrible job. The bolts on mine were extremely tight so I used a pipe over the end of the ratchet for extra torque for removal. Guess that's why I broke 3 sockets. With help you can probably do it under 3 hours. I would definitely recommend the AC Delcos.

Out of curiosity how many ft-lbs of torque did you use on the axle nut for the AC Delco hubs?

wlkjr
04-20-2006, 08:42 PM
Out of curiosity how many ft-lbs of torque did you use on the axle nut for the AC Delco hubs?
I couldn't get that big torque wrench into position to get the hubs back on so I just pulled them down tight with a 3/8 ratchet. Did use the torque wrench on the rest of the job.

BNaylor
04-20-2006, 09:10 PM
I couldn't get that big torque wrench into position to get the hubs back on so I just pulled them down tight with a 3/8 ratchet. Did use the torque wrench on the rest of the job.

60 ft-lbs is specifed for the hub bolts but that is hard to do.

I was referring to the axle shaft nut. I've seen two figures floating around in the service manuals. 151 ft-lbs and 184 ft-lbs with note 1 which specifies new axle nut. I used a new axle but split the baby at 160 ft-lbs. I checked around locally and I got different answers. Some sounded way out in left field. No problems noted so far. Been installed for over two years now.

Of course this is applicable only to the AC Delco or OEM hubs. Supposedly on aftermarket hubs the manufacturer specifies the torque value.

wlkjr
04-21-2006, 06:31 AM
60 ft-lbs is specifed for the hub bolts but that is hard to do.

I was referring to the axle shaft nut. I've seen two figures floating around in the service manuals. 151 ft-lbs and 184 ft-lbs with note 1 which specifies new axle nut. I used a new axle but split the baby at 160 ft-lbs. I checked around locally and I got different answers. Some sounded way out in left field. No problems noted so far. Been installed for over two years now.

Of course this is applicable only to the AC Delco or OEM hubs. Supposedly on aftermarket hubs the manufacturer specifies the torque value.

I couldn't find any new axle nuts without ordering them so I just reused the old ones. We torqued them at about 150 lbs. I had printed out a copy of a thread that had all the torque values in it and that is what I went by. First torque wrench I bought I couldn't get it to click even at the lowest setting so I returned it and got another one which worked ok. Did make me wonder how accurate these things are.

BNaylor
04-21-2006, 08:21 AM
I couldn't find any new axle nuts without ordering them so I just reused the old ones. We torqued them at about 150 lbs. I had printed out a copy of a thread that had all the torque values in it and that is what I went by. First torque wrench I bought I couldn't get it to click even at the lowest setting so I returned it and got another one which worked ok. Did make me wonder how accurate these things are.

I think you are good to go. I'm not about the mess with mine. Yeah, its funny how we are faced with these type problems when doing DIY work and yet it all comes out in the laundry. Murphy's law: What can go wrong will go wrong.

wlkjr
04-21-2006, 08:33 AM
I think you are good to go. I'm not about the mess with mine. Yeah, its funny how we are faced with these type problems when doing DIY work and yet it all comes out in the laundry. Murphy's law: What can go wrong will go wrong.

Sometimes I think us DIYers do a better job than the professional mechanics, at least on certain things. I know that a good, honest, competent mechanic is hard to find.

00GT
04-22-2006, 11:11 AM
I completely agree. Thats why I'm gonna do this on my own. I'm sure its the right one thats causing the problem, so I think I'm gonna give it a shot doing only that one for now. Thanks for all the good advice guys.

sirul
04-24-2006, 04:58 PM
60 ft-lbs is specifed for the hub bolts but that is hard to do.

I was referring to the axle shaft nut. I've seen two figures floating around in the service manuals. 151 ft-lbs and 184 ft-lbs with note 1 which specifies new axle nut. I used a new axle but split the baby at 160 ft-lbs. I checked around locally and I got different answers. Some sounded way out in left field. No problems noted so far. Been installed for over two years now.

Of course this is applicable only to the AC Delco or OEM hubs. Supposedly on aftermarket hubs the manufacturer specifies the torque value.

Hey Bob,

I installed the BCA Nationals on my 99 GTP and they specified 118 ft-lbs per axle. So I did 118. I hope I'm not "under" torqued on them :rolleyes: . 184 ft-lbs sound awful a lot, taking in consideration that my big 1/2 inch. torque wrench (Craftsman) only goes up to 150 ft-lbs.

What are your thoughts on this one??

BNaylor
04-24-2006, 05:07 PM
Hey Bob,

I installed the BCA Nationals on my 99 GTP and they specified 118 ft-lbs per axle. So I did 118. I hope I'm not "under" torqued on them :rolleyes: . 184 ft-lbs sound awful a lot, taking in consideration that my big 1/2 inch. torque wrench (Craftsman) only goes up to 150 ft-lbs.

What are your thoughts on this one??

Yeah I agree that 184 is way too much. Thats why I never use that figure. I heard on the BCA brand that the 118 ft-lbs is what they recommend for their brand hub/bearings so hopefully it should be good. I've seen torque figures even lower on certain aftermarket hubs too. As low as 94 ft-lbs.

Its best to use what the manufacturer recommends. On whatever GM recommends on their OEM or AC Delco hubs is still a mystery to me but it is good we are having a discussion to try to clear it up. I went with 160 ft-lbs on AC Delco hubs but with a new axle nut. :dunno:

sirul
04-24-2006, 07:31 PM
Indeed. Lets hear some more opinions and hopely we can figure the "Hub torque Mistery". But for now, wheels are turning quitely :thumbsup:

richtazz
04-25-2006, 10:48 AM
Axle nut torque values depend entirely on the hub manufacturer. The specified torque "preloads" the bearing, and different designs necessitate different torque values. Stick with what the instructions in the box say. If you under torque, it will allow lateral movement in the hub, creating a howl and/or cracking noise. If you over torque, you can damage the roller bearings or the ABS sensor. Different brand names look different due to their different designs. We sell A/C Delco and PTC here, and they look totally different, and use different torque values (151 for Delco, 180 for PTC).

BNaylor
04-25-2006, 10:55 AM
Axle nut torque values depend entirely on the hub manufacturer. The specified torque "preloads" the bearing, and different designs necessitate different torque values. Stick with what the instructions in the box say. If you under torque, it will allow lateral movement in the hub, creating a howl and/or cracking noise. If you over torque, you can damage the roller bearings or the ABS sensor. Different brand names look different due to their different designs. We sell A/C Delco and PTC here, and they look totally different, and use different torque values (151 for Delco, 180 for PTC).

Even the aftermarket hubs have a spotty area on torque values. I know of one brand that doesn't specify any recommended torque value so what do you do then???? Flip a coin?

BTW - The biggest problem I see with overtorqueing the axle nut is stressing out the CV joints on the axle shaft, especially the outer.

richtazz
04-25-2006, 11:47 AM
My experience has taught me that if there is no torque value in the box, use the value specified in the repair manual.

BNaylor
04-25-2006, 12:05 PM
My experience has taught me that if there is no torque value in the box, use the value specified in the repair manual.

Thats more common sense, however, experience or an assumption doesn't always prove to be correct either. Just how close are these aftermarket hub makers to the OEM specifications unless they happen to be the hub maker GM uses. Companies like Timken take it a step further. On the instruction sheet they specify using the auto maker's torque value as specified in the service manual. Now we are back to one of the topics discussed in earlier posts in this round robin discussion. For the '97 - '03 Grand Prix what torque value is correct 151 ft-lbs or 184 ft-lbs. Both are specified in the Grand Prix service manual at least up to 1999. Just food for thought.

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