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Faulty lower intake gasket


GP2002
04-12-2006, 06:40 PM
I'm new to the site and need some guidance. I have a 2002 Grand Prix with 3.8L V-6 engine and 42,000 miles. I just had my lower intake gasket replaced last week after low coolant light came on - was told GM has had problems with these in the past. My car died right after I got it back, and now the engine is ruined. Coolant had already leaked into and deluted the oil, damaged the pistons, and metal fragmants are now all throughout the engine. I have an extended warranty that covered the gasket repair - now we're waiting to hear if it'll cover replacement my engine. What do you all know about this problem? If my warranty doesn't pay for it, have their been class action lawsuits filed for this type of problem? If we get a new engine, do you recommend rebuilt or re-man from GM? Please advise. Thanks!!

GTP Dad
04-12-2006, 08:03 PM
Welcome to AF!

This is a common problem to this particular engine. If you search this forum both Pontiac and Buick you will see a lot of issues with LIM gaskets and needing them replaced. I am not certain if there is a lawsuit on this one I know there is a lot of talk about it. As for the engine it is a toss up on which one to go with. A reman unit is just that, probably better than a rebuild since they test all parts before reinstalling. Personally I prefer the reman unit. If the warranty pays for it then they will probably go for used or reman. Good Luck and let us know how it turns out.

BNaylor
04-13-2006, 07:24 AM
Here are samples of all the GM TSBs out on the problem:


Sample of General Motors service bulletins
Updated Thu. Apr. 6 2006 8:28 PM ET

CTV.ca News Staff

FIRST SAMPLE BULLETIN

File In Section: 06 - Engine/Propulsion System

Bulletin No.: 01-06-01-007A

Date: July, 2001

TECHNICAL

Subject:

Engine Coolant Consumption or Coolant Leak

(Inspect For Material Degradation/Replace Intake Manifolds)

Models:

1995-1997 Buick Riviera
1995-1998 Buick LeSabre, Park Avenue
1996-1998 Buick Regal
1998 Chevrolet Lumina, Monte Carlo
1995-1996 Oldsmobile Ninety-Eight
1995-1998 Oldsmobile Eighty-Eight
1998 Oldsmobile Intrigue
1995-1998 Pontiac Bonneville
1997-1998 Pontiac Grand Prix
with 3.8L Engine (VIN K - RPO L36)

This bulletin is being revised to correct parts and labor operation usage. Please discard Corporate Bulletin Number 01-06-01-007 (Section 6 - Engine/Propulsion System).

Condition

Some owners may comment on excessive engine coolant consumption, or an engine coolant leak near or under the throttle body area of the upper intake manifold.

Cause

Upper intake manifold composite material may degrade around the EGR stove pipe and could result in an internal or external coolant leak.

Correction

1. Follow the upper intake manifold removal instructions found in the Engine Unit Repair Section of the Service Information Manual.


2. Refer to the arrow in the illustration of the upper intake manifold above. Inspect the inner diameter of the EGR passage for signs of material degradation. Degradation will appear as "pitting" of the composite material in the EGR port passage.


3. If degradation of upper intake manifold composite material is found, replace the lower and upper intake manifolds with the following part numbers:

^Lower Intake - 24508923


^Upper Intake - 17113136 (includes necessary upper intake plenum gaskets)

^Lower Intake Gasket - 12537197



4. Follow the lower and upper intake manifold installation instructions found in the Engine Unit Repair Section of the appropriate Service Manual.


5. If degradation is not apparent, skip to Step 7.


6. Verify the repair.


7. If no degradation is found, evaluate the vehicle for other causes of excessive coolant consumption as noted in the Engine Diagnosis Section of the appropriate Service Manual.

Parts Information

Parts are currently available from GMSPO.

SECOND SAMPLE BULLETIN

Engine Oil or Coolant Leak (Install New Intake
Manifold Gasket) # 03-06-01-010B - (10/24/2003)


Engine Oil or Coolant Leak (Install New Intake Manifold Gasket)

2000-2003 Buick Century

2002-2003 Buick Rendezvous

1996 Chevrolet Lumina APV

1997-2003 Chevrolet Venture

1999-2001 Chevrolet Lumina

1999-2003 Chevrolet Malibu, Monte Carlo

2000-2003 Chevrolet Impala

1996-2003 Oldsmobile Silhouette

1999 Oldsmobile Cutlass

1999-2003 Oldsmobile Alero

1996-1999 Pontiac Trans Sport

1999-2003 Pontiac Grand Am, Montana

2000-2003 Pontiac Grand Prix

2001-2003 Pontiac Aztek

with 3.1L or 3.4L V-6 Engine (VINs J, E - RPOs LG8, LA1)

This bulletin is being revised to change the model Information. Please discard Corporate Bulletin Number 03-06-01-O10A (Section 06 - Engine).


Condition

Some owners may comment on an apparent oil or coolant leak. Additionally, the comments may range from spots on the driveway to having to add fluids.

Cause

Intake manifold may be leaking allowing coolant, oil or both to leak from the engine.

Correction

Install a new design intake manifold gasket. The material used in the gasket has been changed in order to improve the sealing qualities of the gasket. When replacing the gasket, the intake manifold bolts must also be replaced and torqued to a revised specification. The new bolts will come with a pre-applied threadlocker on them.

Notice

An oil leak may result if the vertical bolts are not tightened before the diagonal bolts.


Diagonal bolts may require a crows foot to tighten.

Tighten

1. Tighten the vertical lower intake manifold bolts (1) to 7 N.m (62 lb in).

2. Tighten the diagonal lower intake manifold bolts (2) to 7 N.m (62 lb in).

3. Tighten the vertical lower intake manifold bolts (1) to 13 N.m (115 lb in).

4. Tighten the diagonal lower intake manifold bolts (2) to 25 N.m (18 lb ft).

Parts Information

Parts are currently available from GMSPO.

THIRD SAMPLE BULLETIN

File In Section: 06 - Engine/Propulsion System

Bulletin No.: 03-06-01-016

Date: May, 2003

TECHNICAL

Subject:
Loss of Coolant, Milky Colored Oil
(Replace Intermediate Intake Gasket)


Models:

2000-2003 Buick LeSabre, Park Avenue, Regal
2000-2003 Chevrolet Impala, Monte Carlo
2000-2003 Pontiac Bonneville
2000-2003 Pontiac Grand Prix
with 3.8L V6 Engine (VIN K - RPO L36)

Built Prior to the VIN Breakpoints shown.

Condition

Some owners may comment on a loss of coolant, coolant odor, having to add coolant or a milky substance on either the oil dipstick or oil fill cap. Additionally, owners may indicate that there are signs of coolant loss left on the ground where the vehicle is normally parked.

Cause

Condition may be due to coolant leaking past intermediate intake or throttle body gaskets.

Correction

Important: The upper intake manifold should not be replaced for a coolant leak condition, unless a rare instance of physical damage is found. Even if the throttle body surface shows a slight warpage, the upper intake should not be replaced unless a drivability concern is noted or a relevant engine DTC, such as a code for an unmetered air leak, is set and the upper intake manifold can clearly be shown as the cause of the concern.


Thoroughly check for any external leaks. If no external leaks are found, then replace the intermediate intake manifold gasket and the throttle body gasket. When changing the throttle body gasket, the nuts that retain the throttle body should be replaced with a new design that improves torque retention. Medium strength thread locker should be applied to the studs before installing the new nuts.

Parts Information

Parts are currently available from GMSPO.

FOURTH SAMPLE BULLETIN

Bulletin No.: 04-06-01-017

Date: May 26, 2004

INFORMATION

Subject:
New Upper Intake Manifold and Gasket Kits


Models:
1995-1997 Buick Riviera
1995-2004 Buick Park Avenue
1996-2004 Buick Regal
1997-2004 Buick LeSabre
1998-1999 Chevrolet Lumina
1998-2004 Chevrolet Monte Carlo
2000-2004 Chevrolet Impala
1995-1996 Oldsmobile Ninety-Eight
1995-1999 Oldsmobile Eighty-Eight
1998-1999 Oldsmobile Intrigue
1995-2004 Pontiac Bonneville
1997-2003 Pontiac Grand Prix
with 3.8L V6 Engine (VIN K - RPO L36)


New upper intake manifold and gasket kits have been released. These new kits will provide the dealer with the ability to get exactly what is necessary for a correct repair. In addition some of the gaskets have been updated to a more robust design. Please reference the part numbers when ordering from GMSPO.

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richtazz
04-13-2006, 11:15 AM
All that and they (GM) still claim it's not a recall issue, sheesh!!!!

Nice write up BTW Bob, :bigthumb:

BNaylor
04-13-2006, 11:28 AM
All that and they (GM) still claim it's not a recall issue, sheesh!!!!

GM is pretty arrogant if you ask me.

GP2002
04-13-2006, 01:21 PM
[quote=richtazz]All that and they (GM) still claim it's not a recall issue, sheesh!!!!

After reading all your comments and searching through the forum, I was wondering why there never was a recall. Apparently that's bewildering everyone! I also get the impression that many don't care much for GM! Thanks for the comments and keep them coming - I may need to learn much more in order to find a way to fight this thing if the extended warranty doesn't cover the new engine cost.

troy1
04-13-2006, 01:26 PM
Someone in the Impala section had a TV report about Canadians trying to get a class action lawsuit going. I replaced my UIM gaskets as Bob knows fuel mileage and the warm up engine surge are 99% better. GM just looking the other way, intake gasket problems what’s a intake gasket hehe :rofl:

BNaylor
04-13-2006, 01:30 PM
After reading all your comments and searching through the forum, I was wondering why there never was a recall. Apparently that's bewildering everyone! I also get the impression that many don't care much for GM! Thanks for the comments and keep them coming - I may need to learn much more in order to find a way to fight this thing if the extended warranty doesn't cover the new engine cost.

If you reserach the Internet there are a lot of lawsuits against GM for the issue and Canadian TV just did a big expose. Hopefully something comes about it all but I wouldn't hold my breath.

BTW - I don't care for GM anymore but I have purchased many GM vehicles over the years. Currently, I have 4. I was considering the GTO but decided to wait until the new retro Dodge Challenger comes out.

bizcut88
04-13-2006, 05:25 PM
What I find interesting is that they new about the problem but continued production. You'd think GMs engineers could have come out with a fix or did they not realize this issue until 2003? I find that hard to believe.

BNaylor
04-13-2006, 05:39 PM
What I find interesting is that they new about the problem but continued production. You'd think GMs engineers could have come out with a fix or did they not realize this issue until 2003? I find that hard to believe.

GM engineers did come out with a fix. The final solution was canning the Series II 3800 and introducing the Series III 3800 in the '04 and up models. Supposedly the new models do not have those problems and the plastic upper untake manifold (plenum) was discarded and the engine was introduced with a cast aluminum upper intake manifold and a modified LIM. Only time will tell if that is true and really is the fix.

richtazz
04-13-2006, 05:48 PM
I wonder if GM will try to throw it's gasket manufacturer under the bus like Ford did with the Ford Exploder (oops, I mean Explorer) and Firestone tires? I agree with you Bob on the Dodge Challenger. I bet the GTO is faster and handles better, but that Challenger is BEAUTIFUL. They're styling engineers hit a Grand Slam Homer with that car. The Dodge Magnum wagon is awesome too. It's got me thinking about one with my two kids and 2 big dogs. Practicality and performance, what a concept. Wake up GM, I don't want to bail on you, but I don't have much choice.

BNaylor
04-13-2006, 06:01 PM
I wonder if GM will try to throw it's gasket manufacturer under the bus like Ford did with the Ford Exploder (oops, I mean Explorer) and Firestone tires? I agree with you Bob on the Dodge Challenger. I bet the GTO is faster and handles better, but that Challenger is BEAUTIFUL. They're styling engineers hit a Grand Slam Homer with that car. The Dodge Magnum wagon is awesome too. It's got me thinking about one with my two kids and 2 big dogs. Practicality and performance, what a concept. Wake up GM, I don't want to bail on you, but I don't have much choice.

Brings tears to my eyes. Especially if you actually owned one. :grinyes: I had a '70 with the 440 Magnum. Metallic blue. If I can find where my wife hid the pics I'd post it.

Went out and rented "Vanishing Point" from Blockbuster a few months ago.

auxbar
04-13-2006, 08:17 PM
I'm new to the site and need some guidance. I have a 2002 Grand Prix with 3.8L V-6 engine and 42,000 miles. I just had my lower intake gasket replaced last week after low coolant light came on - was told GM has had problems with these in the past. My car died right after I got it back, and now the engine is ruined. Coolant had already leaked into and deluted the oil, damaged the pistons, and metal fragmants are now all throughout the engine. I have an extended warranty that covered the gasket repair - now we're waiting to hear if it'll cover replacement my engine. What do you all know about this problem? If my warranty doesn't pay for it, have their been class action lawsuits filed for this type of problem? If we get a new engine, do you recommend rebuilt or re-man from GM? Please advise. Thanks!!


If you just paid a professional to change your lower intake gasket, and the car died after you got it back....I would almost have to question whether or not your mechanic changed your oil after he replaced the intake gaskets. Coolant mixes with the oil during the procedure, and if you do not change the oil after an intake gasket job, then good bye motor. Please post back if your warranty does not cover it, and let us know who and where you bought the warranty/ car from.

sirul
04-13-2006, 10:25 PM
If you reserach the Internet there are a lot of lawsuits against GM for the issue and Canadian TV just did a big expose. Hopefully something comes about it all but I wouldn't hold my breath.

BTW - I don't care for GM anymore but I have purchased many GM vehicles over the years. Currently, I have 4. I was considering the GTO but decided to wait until the new retro Dodge Challenger comes out.

Take a look at this....
http://webpages.charter.net/simongarcia/Challenger.jpg

The new LY Dodge Challenger is reportedly planned for the 2007-2008 calendar year LY is the platform code for the second-generation LX cars (an unfortunate designation!). The Challenger may ride a shorter wheelbase to decrease weight, but on the other hand, it may simply be a two-door variant, much as the Charger was a two-door version of the Coronet.

GTP Dad
04-14-2006, 06:39 AM
The new GTO is a "nice" car but it is in no way the GTO of the past. The New Challenger, Mustang and the upcoming Camero take their looks from the past versions which makes them (especially for us Old Hot Rodders) more desirable to want to drive. I thing that GM has truly lost it over the last few years with their half hearted attempts to get back into the performance market. The Corvette has always been awesome but if you look at the other cars in the line-up they are falling way behind Dodge and Ford in their streetable performance line-up. Most of us can't afford a 'Vette or a Cadillac but we can afford the alternatives from Dodge since you can get good performance for under $30K. No wonder GM is on the verge of going bankrupt.

BNaylor
04-14-2006, 07:31 AM
The New Challenger, Mustang and the upcoming Camero take their looks from the past versions which makes them (especially for us Old Hot Rodders) more desirable to want to drive.

I'll second that Lynn. Especially since we lived that era. Those were amazing days that are hard to forget. The retro idea is a great concept and I'm looking forward to seeing what the future brings.

richtazz
04-14-2006, 07:43 AM
The funny thing is, the people that didn't live through the first muscle car craze don't like the retro styling. The 22-26 year olds prefer the blocky, wedgy, "way too much brushed aluminum/exposed frame structure" styling concepts. I regret selling my 70 Chevelle every day. I think Dodge and Ford stole all of GM's good sylists, and GM was stuck hiring the guys from AMC.

wlkjr
04-14-2006, 10:18 AM
The funny thing is, the people that didn't live through the first muscle car craze don't like the retro styling. The 22-26 year olds prefer the blocky, wedgy, "way too much brushed aluminum/exposed frame structure" styling concepts. I regret selling my 70 Chevelle every day. I think Dodge and Ford stole all of GM's good sylists, and GM was stuck hiring the guys from AMC.

I think GM has too many former Chrysler and Ford people on board. Article I read said last year GM sold more vehicles than any other year in their history and still lost $8 billion. How can that be?
I hate the looks of the new GTO but everything I have read says it will outrun any other GTO from the past. Maybe so, but it doesn't have any soul or any styling. I've always loved the looks of my GP but even the new ones are butt ugly to me.

GP2002
04-14-2006, 01:12 PM
If you just paid a professional to change your lower intake gasket, and the car died after you got it back....I would almost have to question whether or not your mechanic changed your oil after he replaced the intake gaskets. Coolant mixes with the oil during the procedure, and if you do not change the oil after an intake gasket job, then good bye motor. Please post back if your warranty does not cover it, and let us know who and where you bought the warranty/ car from.
Yes, had a professional replace the gasket, and no, I don't believe they changed the oil afterwards. I know nothing about fixing cars, but even I thought it was strange not to have changed it. We still haven't heard if ext warranty will cover the engine - if it doesn't, you can bet we'll be asking the dealer more questions. We'll post once we know.

BNaylor
04-14-2006, 04:16 PM
Maybe so, but it doesn't have any soul or any styling. I've always loved the looks of my GP but even the new ones are butt ugly to me.

Yep, a car without a soul has no character. Everytime I see an '04 and up I want to barf.

troy1
04-14-2006, 04:49 PM
Yep, a car without a soul has no character. Everytime I see an '04 and up I want to barf.

i hear ya there!

I love the Retro Challenger/Stang/Camaro.

GP2002
04-24-2006, 01:28 PM
If you just paid a professional to change your lower intake gasket, and the car died after you got it back....I would almost have to question whether or not your mechanic changed your oil after he replaced the intake gaskets. Coolant mixes with the oil during the procedure, and if you do not change the oil after an intake gasket job, then good bye motor. Please post back if your warranty does not cover it, and let us know who and where you bought the warranty/ car from.

I finally learned late last week the GM Protection Plan will cover the replacement of a new motor, and they approved a reman over a rebuilt, thank goodness. The GM adjuster took forever to visit the dealership, and we were getting concerned they were blowing us off - we were preparing to fight. However, they finally took care of everything.

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