TC vs. SRT-4 (http://www.zeropointindustries.net/gallery/albums/videos/srtvtC.wmv)
TC vs. STI (http://www.zeropointindustries.net/gallery/albums/videos/tc_v_sti.wmv)
TC vs. Z28 and 350Z (http://www.zeropointindustries.net/gallery/albums/videos/zpi.wmv)

Before I bought my car, i was thinking about getting a scion tc in the future, it's a pretty nice car actually but i changed my mind because i wanna go BIG. I remember when i first joined this forum there was a guy in here with a scion tc, and since then I've never seen him again, is he still here? anyways, if you guys havn't figured it out yet, scion is part of the TRD family

Wow so $5000 later, the Scion can beat a stock LT1 from a roll:thumbsdow

Wow so $5000 later, the Scion can beat a stock LT1 from a roll:thumbsdow

been drinking too much acid again i see.........tsk tsk

been drinking too much acid again i see.........tsk tsk

Nope, just not too impressed by a turbo'd car beating a basically stock LT1...

Ummm neato video though!

Cool vids. That is one quiet full exhaust LT1. The guy in the TC really needs to learn how to drive, cause I could've counted seconds between his shifts.

i was thinking about getting a scion tc in the future, it's a pretty nice car actually but i changed my mind because i wanna go BIG.

So you bought a Corolla? And then put a crappy exhaust on it that actually caused you to loose power?

Wow so $5000 later, the Scion can beat a stock LT1 from a roll

Werd.

Nice vids I guess. The SRT hardly sounds like hes getting on it. In fact, except for the Z, it hardly sounds like any of them are getting on it. Meh. Theres other stuff I'd rather spend my money on.

So you bought a Corolla? And then put a crappy exhaust on it that actually caused you to loose power?



Werd.

Nice vids I guess. The SRT hardly sounds like hes getting on it. In fact, except for the Z, it hardly sounds like any of them are getting on it. Meh. Theres other stuff I'd rather spend my money on.

Like a decent car?:iceslolan

But seriously, I guess that Scion is a pretty good deal for an MSRP of $16000, but I'd much rather start off with a faster car out of the box, even if it means getting something used...

Like a decent car?:iceslolan


OH SNAP!

you guys are weird.....the z28 had chip, intake, and full exhaust, is that stock to you guys? :screwy: and i meant IN THE FUTURE i was planning to get a TC, but i changed my mind, i'm getting something else when i graduate.

And most stage 1 turbo kits are around the $5k price range, no? why wouldn't that impress you? :screwy: and plus, a TC is only $16,840, add 5k to that and its only about $22,000 for a decent car, hmmmmkayyy.....http://img82.imageshack.us/img82/5669/pimp8ow.gif

^^New smiley, cool. I like the TC too, not what I call fast out of the box but it is cheap and it looks pretty good. I like the panaramic roof and the interior, plus the outside reminds me of a bimmer. I wouldn't mind having one for a daily driver.

I only watched one video and that was the one with the SRT-4. It sounded to me like he was just holding the throttle down a little. The scions i think are pretty ugly and are more of a grocery vehicle then any type of race vehicle.

Though im biased in my opinion cuz i like late 80s early 90s vehicles. Most and i say most of the new vehicles are surrounded by to many bullshit things.

Anyway nice vids,bad car

you guys are weird.....the z28 had chip, intake, and full exhaust, is that stock to you guys? :screwy: and i meant IN THE FUTURE i was planning to get a TC, but i changed my mind, i'm getting something else when i graduate.

And most stage 1 turbo kits are around the $5k price range, no? why wouldn't that impress you? :screwy: and plus, a TC is only $16,840, add 5k to that and its only about $22,000 for a decent car, hmmmmkayyy.....http://img82.imageshack.us/img82/5669/pimp8ow.gif

I'd rather get a Kia Rio and put $14k into it....

ricer you got any pictures of your car?

Scion is 16k if you have no options on it, problem is they have hundreds of different things u can do to "accessorize it". It can get pretty expensive when you start adding stuff on to it, which alot of ppl do.

Ew. I hate Scions with a passion. They are so ugly.. and the commercials where they 'pimp' them from the factory just make me hate them even more.

His 0-100 took 23 secs. So um....? And all the other people must not of been racing besides the Z. The srt was too quiet and would have at least been able to match a 300hp tc, the z28 would have taken it if not matched it and plus the exhaust sounded like the inside of a Lexus. And the sti didn't even look like it was racing. Tc's are for middle aged women who lug grocies around or newly turned 16 year olds that need a slow reliable car.

Ok vids...needs to be edited better, seriously, it was kinda cheesy to hear the guy in the STI say his battery was low.

And the first two had no music which was boring as hell...and the third one had music that just cut out...which was almost worse.


But I did laugh when he shifted into second and then hit the rev-limiter....that made me giggle like a school girl

The TRD supercharger they have out now is crap too. MT tested and got a like a 15.1 out of it.


impressive...

wait no, thats not the word. crap, yeah thats it

they need to make a Scion P/O/S. oh wait,, all the current models are those. i would feel like a badass driving a kia or saturn compared to that :lol:
and there's no way in hell that was an lt1 with exhaust, or if it was then he wasn't giving it any gas at all.




Scions suck.

i like the looks of the scion tc but thats about it after that its downhill

:banhim:

:banhim:
:eek:

^^:lol: All of ya'll seriously don't like the way it looks?? I think its one of the nicer looking four banger on a budget cars out there. Two of my friends have tC's and I think they look pretty good. It's 2.4 aint nothing compared to Honda's in the S2000, but that'll cost a good chunk more. It's stock 17" rims look pretty good, the front seriously reminds me of a BMW(the good looking ones), I like how the center console is set up, and if you've ever been inside one the panaramic roof is actually pretty tight. Like I said I wouldn't mind one for a daily driver, but to each his own, ya'll don't like this Scion, I don't like the look of lets say the new Civic Si, thats whats so great about individuality.

seen it before....zpi has a pretty quick scion there....

seen it before....zpi has a pretty quick scion there....

the picture of your old neon looks happy and the picture of your new srt-4 looks pissed off lol i would hate to see that thing in my rear view mirror

the picture of your old neon looks happy and the picture of your new srt-4 looks pissed off lol i would hate to see that thing in my rear view mirror

Then you better not race one:iceslolan

the picture of your old neon looks happy and the picture of your new srt-4 looks pissed off lol i would hate to see that thing in my rear view mirror

Lol, I just noticed that, smiley face to the evil eye, thats pretty tight.

It's 2.4 aint nothing compared to Honda's in the S2000, but that'll cost a good chunk more.
The N/A version of the SS Cobalt has a 2.4L that makes more power (171 hp vs 160) and get better gas mileage (25/34 vs 22/29). And it’s only $700 more.:D

Then you better not race one:iceslolan

that's the only way you'll see one is in the rear view mirror..:licka: :grinyes: :eek: :frown: :uhoh:

SOOOO i guess im going to defend the tC... lol

im here ricer, i just dont post since i dont street race very often. cops around here suck.

For starts, the TRD supercharger is adding 55whp to the tC, and is running a 14.5 in the 1320. Put some better tires on the tC and you'll see a 14.3, with no other modifications and retaining a 5 year/60k mile warranty.

I'm pretty sure the tC was not meant to be a performance car. So im not sure why everyone is beating on it. For a CIVIC owner to complain about how tC's are getting "pimped" out from the factory really shouldn't be talking...

Looks are completely based on opinion, so theres no point in arguing...

The Cobalt is getting better gas mileage because of its gear ratios. The Manual tC is geared ridiculously low, so you see the higher RPMs more often than you would in the cobalt.

Scion is "supposed" to be marketed towards college and high school students. That's why this car isn't fast. If mommy or daddy see the word "performance" near this car, i'm sure it wouldn't sell, but since its an affordable, practical, and reliable car,and relatively safe, it sells.

ZPI stage 1 kit costs around 3500 dollars... so maybe 5k with install and tune? Camry motors are pretty rock solid, and don't exactly have high compression, so thats why tuner shops are jumping all over this car.

Another aspect of scion is the personalization factor. Let's face it, some people do buy civics because they can "modify it" easily. Scion took that idea and built it into their company. I see nothing wrong with this.

To sum up what im saying....

Invest money in any car, and you can make any car fast
STOCK Scion tC is not a streetracer/performance/track car.
Comfortable, affordable, practical, fun, economical, and cheap car? YES

hopefully i didnt offend anybody.... sorry if i did....

SOOOO i guess im going to defend the tC... lol

im here ricer, i just dont post since i dont street race very often. cops around here suck.

For starts, the TRD supercharger is adding 55whp to the tC, and is running a 14.5 in the 1320. Put some better tires on the tC and you'll see a 14.3, with no other modifications and retaining a 5 year/60k mile warranty.

I'm pretty sure the tC was not meant to be a performance car. So im not sure why everyone is beating on it. For a CIVIC owner to complain about how tC's are getting "pimped" out from the factory really shouldn't be talking...

Looks are completely based on opinion, so theres no point in arguing...

The Cobalt is getting better gas mileage because of its gear ratios. The Manual tC is geared ridiculously low, so you see the higher RPMs more often than you would in the cobalt.

Scion is "supposed" to be marketed towards college and high school students. That's why this car isn't fast. If mommy or daddy see the word "performance" near this car, i'm sure it wouldn't sell, but since its an affordable, practical, and reliable car,and relatively safe, it sells.

ZPI stage 1 kit costs around 3500 dollars... so maybe 5k with install and tune? Camry motors are pretty rock solid, and don't exactly have high compression, so thats why tuner shops are jumping all over this car.

Another aspect of scion is the personalization factor. Let's face it, some people do buy civics because they can "modify it" easily. Scion took that idea and built it into their company. I see nothing wrong with this.

To sum up what im saying....

Invest money in any car, and you can make any car fast
STOCK Scion tC is not a streetracer/performance/track car.
Comfortable, affordable, practical, fun, economical, and cheap car? YES

hopefully i didnt offend anybody.... sorry if i did....


According to the mags they haven't even dipped into the 14's with the Scion TC, let alone mid 14's. They make 200hp, and last I checked the Scion is not a light car (It weighs over 3000lbs.). Not bashing you, just stating the facts. I believe the test numbers show the Cobalt SS to be faster, let alone alot less money to buy then a Scion TC w/ a supercharger ($25K).

For starts, the TRD supercharger is adding 55whp to the tC, and is running a 14.5 in the 1320. Put some better tires on the tC and you'll see a 14.3, with no other modifications and retaining a 5 year/60k mile warranty.
The tC is $16,840. The supercharger is $3200 installation not included. You can get an supercharged SS Cobalt for $20,490 (with a 5 year/60K warranty) and it comes with suff the tC doesn’t have like: Leather seats and 18" wheels. Plus there is a $1,500 Performance Package that add an LSD and upgrades the front seats to Recaro seats. Stage 1 and 2 factory upgrades:http://www.cobaltss.net/forums//showthread.php?t=16834 And the supercharged SS Cobalt also gets better MPG then the stock tC (23/29 vs 22/28).

The Cobalt is getting better gas mileage because of its gear ratios. The Manual tC is geared ridiculously low, so you see the higher RPMs more often than you would in the cobalt.
True the N/A 2.4L SS Cobalt has a 3.94:1 final gear wall the tC has a 4.24:1 final gear, but as far as I know the tC lower gearing doesn’t make it any faster then the Cobalt.

ZPI stage 1 kit costs around 3500 dollars... so maybe 5k with install and tune? Camry motors are pretty rock solid, and don't exactly have high compression, so thats why tuner shops are jumping all over this car.
You have a point having good aftermarket support is a big deal assuming it’s as fast as it is in the video and more importantly reliable, but it still means saying goodby to your warranty.

real life numbers anda magazine numbers are 2 different things.
yea... i know the magazines haven't dipped into the 14's yet, but im an active member on scionlife.com, and i've seen numberous timeslipes between 14.3 and 14.7 with just the supercharger.

you can buy the supercharger from trdsparks.com for 2950 and still have the dealer install it with the full warranty.

16,800 + 3000 + 600 = $21,400

Yes, its true that as well as having short gears in the tC, it runs pig rich, toyota did this on purpose to make sure the engine lasts forever, it does have the same tuning as the Camry engine, it just has shorter gear ratios. So combine a rich tuning with short gear ratios.. and wah la... not great gas mileage.


I'm not 100% sure on the specs of the NA 2.4 Cobalt as far as the 0-60, so i really can't comment. The cobalt may be lighter as well. the tC weights 2950lbs.

The tC definetely has some problems coming out of the factory if its competing with sport compacts. N/A Inline 4, No LSD, Excessive body roll, heavyness. If i wanted a sports car for 20k, i would have bought an SRT-4. But once again, Scion is all about customization.

Personally, I'd pay the 1 or 2 thousand more to have a tC over a supercharged Cobalt, but that is also a matter of opinion/preference that doesn't need a whole arguement.

real life numbers anda magazine numbers are 2 different things.
yea... i know the magazines haven't dipped into the 14's yet, but im an active member on scionlife.com, and i've seen numberous timeslipes between 14.3 and 14.7 with just the supercharger.

you can buy the supercharger from trdsparks.com for 2950 and still have the dealer install it with the full warranty.

16,800 + 3000 + 600 = $21,400

Yes, its true that as well as having short gears in the tC, it runs pig rich, toyota did this on purpose to make sure the engine lasts forever, it does have the same tuning as the Camry engine, it just has shorter gear ratios. So combine a rich tuning with short gear ratios.. and wah la... not great gas mileage.


I'm not 100% sure on the specs of the NA 2.4 Cobalt as far as the 0-60, so i really can't comment. The cobalt may be lighter as well. the tC weights 2950lbs.

The tC definetely has some problems coming out of the factory if its competing with sport compacts. N/A Inline 4, No LSD, Excessive body roll, heavyness. If i wanted a sports car for 20k, i would have bought an SRT-4. But once again, Scion is all about customization.

Personally, I'd pay the 1 or 2 thousand more to have a tC over a supercharged Cobalt, but that is also a matter of opinion/preference that doesn't need a whole arguement.

Ummmm.... Since when is a Dodge Neon a sports car?

Ummmm.... Since when is a Dodge Neon a sports car?

are you saying that a Scion TC is a sports car and an SRT-4 isn't?

are you saying that a Scion TC is a sports car and an SRT-4 isn't?

i dont believe he said that at all, he only asked since when is the SRT4 a sports car. Cause last time i checked it was a old lady grocery getter thats been pumping more steroids than the MBA.

i dont believe he said that at all, he only asked since when is the SRT4 a sports car. Cause last time i checked it was a old lady grocery getter thats been pumping more steroids than the MBA.

Mortgage Bankers Association, Marine Biological Association? Or did you mean NBA(National Basketball Association), either way, personally I would've used MLB, everyone knows them baseball players have been juicing for a while.

real life numbers anda magazine numbers are 2 different things.
yea... i know the magazines haven't dipped into the 14's yet, but im an active member on scionlife.com, and i've seen numberous timeslipes between 14.3 and 14.7 with just the supercharger.

you can buy the supercharger from trdsparks.com for 2950 and still have the dealer install it with the full warranty.

16,800 + 3000 + 600 = $21,400

Yes, its true that as well as having short gears in the tC, it runs pig rich, toyota did this on purpose to make sure the engine lasts forever, it does have the same tuning as the Camry engine, it just has shorter gear ratios. So combine a rich tuning with short gear ratios.. and wah la... not great gas mileage.


I'm not 100% sure on the specs of the NA 2.4 Cobalt as far as the 0-60, so i really can't comment. The cobalt may be lighter as well. the tC weights 2950lbs.

The tC definetely has some problems coming out of the factory if its competing with sport compacts. N/A Inline 4, No LSD, Excessive body roll, heavyness. If i wanted a sports car for 20k, i would have bought an SRT-4. But once again, Scion is all about customization.

Personally, I'd pay the 1 or 2 thousand more to have a tC over a supercharged Cobalt, but that is also a matter of opinion/preference that doesn't need a whole arguement.


OK, i'm going to argue with you on what you state that someone posts online about their car. I can go onto LS1.com and see stock Z28's posting 12 sec. timeslips. Does this mean that those times are real?

I go to the track quite often, and can tell you that there are alot of variables. I see soo many kids think that they are some type of pro driver, and then get shattered when they pull out their timeslip for the track.

At the same token in time people also lie about their mods. Danno and I ran into a relatively stock auto LS1 that was literally 2-3 tenths faster then Danno's modded A4 Camaro SS. The dude probably didn't realize he had a stall converter, though his times clearly showed that he did.

There's also the fact that people go to tracks in optimal conditions. The magazines use exceedingly expensive equipment to give you real world time, as if you were at sea level. Some of these people posting outlandish times are running in negative density altitude. If I were to run my car in -1000 DA it would trap in the 114 mph range, despite weighing 3500lbs.

Basically i'm just telling you to take what people post online with a grain of salt. Once you add you S/C i'm sure you're going to go to the track sooner or later. I'm sure you will be somewhat baffled after collecting your timeslip.

are you saying that a Scion TC is a sports car and an SRT-4 isn't?


No I was just saying a Dodge Neon really couldn't be further from a sports car...

i dont believe he said that at all, he only asked since when is the SRT4 a sports car. Cause last time i checked it was a old lady grocery getter thats been pumping more steroids than the MBA.

grocery getter huh........riiiiiiiight and the almighty cavi is something to gloat about........:nono:

No I was just saying a Dodge Neon really couldn't be further from a sports car...

hahaha Im going to leave this one as be.....but I think he meant sport compact.....

grocery getter huh........riiiiiiiight and the almighty cavi is something to gloat about........:nono:


I don't think he referred to his car as any more of a sports car than the Neon... Get over it:rolleyes:

Then you better not race one:iceslolan

:grinno: ....

:grinno: ....

Yeah I thought that was kinda cute too..

grocery getter huh........riiiiiiiight and the almighty cavi is something to gloat about........:nono:


he was not attacking you, he was talking about the srt-4, bieng a sports car or not

did he say his car was or was not a grocery getter

NOW YOU ARE SOUNDING LIKE YOUR DEFENDING YOUR CAR FOR NO REASON, AS PEOPLE HAVE BEEN THINKING YOU WERE

YOUR GOING DOWN THE SAME PATH AS DAMPACHI...
THIS IS A ACTUALL WARNING...STOP!!

For a CIVIC owner to complain about how tC's are getting "pimped" out from the factory really shouldn't be talking...


I don't pretend my civic is a race car. My car has no mods except an intake and a header. Those are only because the old, stock parts went bad on me and it was cheaper to go aftermarket than pay out the ass from the dealership.

So yeah. I can complain about how the factory rices out their cars and then sells them to spoiled little 16 y/o's who speed around like they have some kind of race car.

This Dampachi seems to be uber famous even in his absence, I've seen a lot of references to him. Too bad i wasn't here to experience all that is HIM.

lol....

I don't pretend my civic is a race car. My car has no mods except an intake and a header. Those are only because the old, stock parts went bad on me and it was cheaper to go aftermarket than pay out the ass from the dealership.

So yeah. I can complain about how the factory rices out their cars and then sells them to spoiled little 16 y/o's who speed around like they have some kind of race car.

well... what do you consider riced out???

I have to give credit when it is deserved....the tc is a coo little ride that will probably out last most of the cars in its class....stock form its not the fastest car in the world but most people dont buy it for its back breaking speed......but modded it can definatly be one quick car just like any car out there...

well... what do you consider riced out???

chinese food take out:iceslolan

This Dampachi seems to be uber famous even in his absence, I've seen a lot of references to him. Too bad i wasn't here to experience all that is HIM.

haha,, did they delete all of his posts or can you still check them out?

According to the mags they haven't even dipped into the 14's with the Scion TC, let alone mid 14's. They make 200hp, and last I checked the Scion is not a light car (It weighs over 3000lbs.). Not bashing you, just stating the facts. I believe the test numbers show the Cobalt SS to be faster, let alone alot less money to buy then a Scion TC w/ a supercharger ($25K).
So basically, you're saying the Scion is the underdog. It's not super fast out of the box. It costs a little bit of money to make it fast. Well, no shit - you just described almost EVERY compact 4 cyl from the last 15 years that has been modded out and raced, numbnuts. :screwy: Civic, Sentra, Celica, Golf, 240SX, Cavalier, Tiburon, Neon, Protoge, etc etc etc.

The Camry engine is a good solid powerplant with decent aftermarket support, and I think the Tc has some of the best styling out there (I also like the new Civic, but it's more expensive). Sure, it weighs 2905 lbs...but the new Honda Civic is 2877 lbs - a difference of only 28 lbs.

Props to Toyota for having the cajones to put up an affordable entry-level sporty coupe to run with the big boys. And a pretty decent one at that. Oh, and one more thing...don't you DARE use the term "sports car" if you're talking about anything with FWD. Because it isn't. ;)

So basically, you're saying the Scion is the underdog. It's not super fast out of the box. It costs a little bit of money to make it fast. Well, no shit - you just described almost EVERY compact 4 cyl from the last 15 years that has been modded out and raced, numbnuts. :screwy: Civic, Sentra, Celica, Golf, 240SX, Cavalier, Tiburon, Neon, Protoge, etc etc etc.

The Camry engine is a good solid powerplant with decent aftermarket support, and I think the Tc has some of the best styling out there (I also like the new Civic, but it's more expensive). Sure, it weighs 2905 lbs...but the new Honda Civic is 2877 lbs - a difference of only 28 lbs.

Props to Toyota for having the cajones to put up an affordable entry-level sporty coupe to run with the big boys. And a pretty decent one at that. Oh, and one more thing...don't you DARE use the term "sports car" if you're talking about anything with FWD. Because it isn't. ;)


I wouldn't go as far as saying no FWD cars could be considered sports cars, just very few... I'd consider an n/a 300ZX (those are FWD right?) or an n/a stealth/3000gt sports cars...

Both the 300ZX N/A and twin turbo are RWD, just like the Supra, but the 3000GT is FWD while the VR4 twin turbo'd version is AWD.

Both the 300ZX N/A and twin turbo are RWD, just like the Supra, but the 3000GT is FWD while the VR4 twin turbo'd version is AWD.

Doh, for some reason I thought the N/A 300Z was FWD and the TT was AWD. Nonetheless, I'd still consider the FWD 3000GT/Stealth a sports car.

I wouldn't go as far as saying no FWD cars could be considered sports cars, just very few... I'd consider an n/a 300ZX (those are FWD right?) or an n/a stealth/3000gt sports cars...

LOL... no sir, you are indeed wrong. 300ZX were rwd.

And what the fuck difference does it make? I'll call my crx a sports car all I want. It may not be as fast as an LSJuan but it only has 2 seats, low cut roofline, independent rear suspension, 4 wheel disc brakes... seems pretty sporty to me...

I wouldn't car what the Z32 is, even if it was FWD I'd take it.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e275/fx5dfbn/300zx-003.jpg

Freaking sexy.

LOL... no sir, you are indeed wrong. 300ZX were rwd.

And what the fuck difference does it make? I'll call my crx a sports car all I want. It may not be as fast as an LSJuan but it only has 2 seats, low cut roofline, independent rear suspension, 4 wheel disc brakes... seems pretty sporty to me...

You can call your CRX a sports call all you want, doesn't matter to me... Just saying I wouldn't consider it one....

You can call your CRX a sports call all you want, doesn't matter to me... Just saying I wouldn't consider it one....

That's fine by me. It was the whole rwd only is sports car thing...

That's fine by me. It was the whole rwd only is sports car thing...


To me, it takes image, appearance and performance to be considered a real sports car, not just a certain layout or amout of power..

Take an Evo for example: It definitely has the performance of a sports car, with great handling and power, but it doesn't really look like a sports car, and it still kind has the 4-door image. Therefor I wouldn't consider it a sports car.

See what I mean? That my logic about it.

I don't know...from a purists perspective, a sports car by definition has only 2 seats and 2 doors. Most purists will also hold that a sports car drives the rear wheels. Look up the definition of "sports car" online and see.

I think there is some truth to this, but there has been reason to become flexible as technology has improved over the last 2 decades.

However, a sports car is built with PERFORMANCE and only performance in mind. That's the most important thing. A Honda (Civic) CRX is an economy car, and the CRX Si is a "sporty" version of the same economy car. Not a sports car.

I found this R&T Road Test while looking up "sports car." They tested 9 cars they felt represented the spirit of a sports car here...

http://www.roadandtrack.com/article.asp?section_id=31&article_id=1949&page_number=15

On the list: Porsche Carrera S, Porsche Boxster S, Chevy Corvette, Dodge Viper, MBZ SLK 350, Lotus Elise, Nissan 350Z, Honda S2000, BMW Z4 3.0i.

I think this list represents what the general idea of a sports car is to gearheads, and so you can look at the features of the cars on this list to get an idea of what ingredients it takes to be called a sports car.

The things I noticed on this list?
1) None of them are FWD.
2) If the engine is in the front, the trans is in the rear for better weight distribution.
3) Most of them have only 2 seats.

So I think lots of cars are "sporty", my 944 included. But it takes something like the Lotus Elise to be really called a "sports car".

If any FWD car at all deserves to be called a sports car, I would think it to be the ITR. But, it's just an Integra with a few more ponies and a tighter suspension and a little less weight. It's based on the Integra, it's not a completely different design at all. And the Integra is NOT a sports car by design...it's a passenger coupe. So, I don't think the ITR is a sports car either...it's a "sporty" version of the Integra RS/LS/GS/GSR, and it still has seating for 4, and it is still too nose heavy to be a true driver's car with the FWD layout...not a sports car to me.

My ULTIMATE sports car list:
RWD, under 2750 lbs, 2 seats, 2 doors, hardtop. To me, that adds up to a good performer. Lotus Exige, anyone? :naughty:

In the end, I guess it's just opinion. :2cents:

On the list: Porsche Carrera S, Porsche Boxster S, Chevy Corvette, Dodge Viper, MBZ SLK 350, Lotus Elise, Nissan 350Z, Honda S2000, BMW Z4 3.0i.

so how many of those cars can the evo-8 kill in a automotive sport??

so how many of those cars can the evo-8 kill in a automotive sport??

Whats your point?

A fwd car can't be a sports car? I'm not even going to try and defend that. lol

I feel bad for you. :jump3:


:shakehead

I B L!

This is sooo way off topic...

anywhoo....the STI woulda raped him...

soooooo....


I call :bs:

Personally I like the looks of the TC....the others are a major blight on the road. The factory moding aspect is nice, you buy a new car and are able to make it a lil different at time of purchase to be more personal.

And I would rather have the looks of the TC than the cobalt...but it looks like ill be drivin one (or a G6) for 2 days (700 miles) in may bombin out to Vegas and back, so we will see if I like them at all. (non S/C)

Whats your point?

thats like saying that john doe is better than kobe bryant, but he's not a sports player.

or he doesnt look like a sports player

if he performs, he's a sports player

so how many of those cars can the evo-8 kill in a automotive sport??
Depending on the sport, I'd say more than half of them would roast an EVO. Hell, my old VW Corrado smoked EVO's (from a roll) and I had a 4 cyl G60 with ~225whp. :rolleyes:

On a related note...I was at the LB Grand Prix last weekend, and you know what the two slowest cars were in the SCCA race around the 1.97 mile road course at Long Beach were? The almighty Skyline GT-R (as seen on the front page of this website, the red and white one), and the WRX STI. They didn't have a prayer of keeping up with the Vipers, C6's, or 911's that they were racing with. Just an observation.

your exactly right

my point is, it is made to perform in a certain automotive sport
its a rally car

and is a very good one. its also killed the gtr's and rx-7's and m3's and nsx's
on road courses

so infact, it is a sports car.

Depending on the sport, I'd say more than half of them would roast an EVO. Hell, my old VW Corrado smoked EVO's (from a roll) and I had a 4 cyl G60 with ~225whp. :rolleyes:

On a related note...I was at the LB Grand Prix last weekend, and you know what the two slowest cars were in the SCCA race around the 1.97 mile road course at Long Beach were? The almighty Skyline GT-R (as seen on the front page of this website, the red and white one), and the WRX STI. They didn't have a prayer of keeping up with the Vipers, C6's, or 911's that they were racing with. Just an observation.

if you read the story, the red and white one had some problems.

if you read the story, the red and white one had some problems.

Makes sense, I could tell from watching the race that at the very least it wasn't dialed in. Regardless though, I don't see it keeping up with the big boys anytime soon. I hope they campaign the car for this full season though, I'm curious to see how the car does.

As far as the sports car stuff...opinion. That's all it comes down to. EVO's are ok, but there are so many cars out there that are *slower* but much more enjoyable to drive. I'm kind of a purist at heart...I love lighter, nimble cars. I've driven Triumphs, Miatas, Elises...even a Caterham 7...they aren't as fast as some, but DAMN do they put a smile on your face! :smooch:

yea, gives you more of a go-cart feeling

pffttt if you want that kind of feeling then get a bike and hit the twistys....now thats a feeling all on its own....

dont talk about bikes right now

i'm tryna tell myself i dont need one.
i hate to love em

wow... this thread really got off course... can't believe I didn't notice it blowing up.

Closed... sorry folks... this is a can of worms that I don't want opened. We've discussed the whole "fwd sports car" thing a million times... and various other renditions of people opinions.

Nobody here will agree to anything... it'll end with people being pissed and throwing keyboards out the window or possibly beating some children with their computer mouses like a ball and chain sorta deal.

Somebody think of the children!