Who's the most "anal" of the brand loyalists? I think it's down to either the Mopar crowd or the Pontiac crowd. Both seem to hate cross breeding (ex- installing another brand of engine under the hood), both seem to be very meticulate about making sure everything is accurately date coded, correct parts on a resto. More so than a typical chevy or Ford person. What do you think? Who gets the title? Can't we all just get along? :)

We get along fine. It's those darn Ford guys that stir everything up...(:-

There are two "flavors" of Pontiac guys. The restoration "crowd" and the racers. And yes, the resto guys are anal about accuracy. If one looks at the money GTOs and T/As are bringing at the high end, it's no wonder why. Same is true of the MOPAR guys. Those cars are getting scarce and informaiton is sketchy from the factory. I have one customer with THREE "classic" Mopes. A '70 Super Bee (383 car), a '70 440 'Cuda and the purdiest one is a '66 Coronet 500. He's NUTS about getting them right! Lucky me, got to build the engines for the restorations.

Pontiac racers ae the "Rodney Dangerfields" of modern racing. Our local tracks have had Pontiac-powered cars in the top 5 over the last ten years. Track champs (at the "top" bracket) at both local tracks more than once. They run hard and embarrass the Chevy boys, but they STILL talk about the "glass" rods and poor heads. My, my, how times have changed (pun intended). Some of them, I can brag on, others are done by other engine builders. But mostly, they're the class of the field and seldom leave parts on the track.

We're seeing more of the older race cars converting back to Pontiac from the BBCs they were running. Now that there are competitively priced heads and blocks at the upper levels, the trend will continue. LOTS of "closet" Pontiac guys will come home once the new stuff has proven itself. Stay tuned!

Jim

I totally disagree that pontiac people are the most anal. I am a hardcore pontiac fan myself but also a hardcore chevy too, and guess what, I put a SBC in my pontiac. Most guys wont do that because they are looking for them to be original and i dont blame them no matter what kind of car, mopar:nono: , ford:nono: , or chevy and pontiac:smokin: .

I'd say MOPAR people.

In the past, it seemed the Chevy guys hated anything else and would go out of their way to say so.
Fans of the other major brands never seemed to diss the others, so IMO the Chevy owners were the most anal.
These days, it really does not seem to matter very much at all, except, somewhat with some pick up truck owners.

Gas-guzzlin-G-body,

A "'hard core" Pontiac fan would NEVER put a small block Chevy in his vintage Pontiac... Only a Chevy guy thinks it's okay...

We hear it a lot... "You GOTTA runa Chevy if you want it go fast and live"... WRONG! GTO didn't earn it's reputation from LOSING...! It takes a WHOLE LOT of SBC to run with a 400 Pontiac. Ask me how I know this...

All in fun, dude.

Jim

Don't see how anyone can be anal anymore. Over half the parts in all the cars are foreign made today. But if you own a pre 80s car, you have to be anal about everything being correct (farther you get away from 1980, the more so) if you want top dollar for your car some day. Me? I'm pretty well rounded. I have one Chrysler product, 3 Ford products and one GM product. Then I throw in one Yamaha because the Harley folks are too anal. Except for the GM, the cars are AMERICAN cars with AMERICAN parts made by AMERICAN workers. The GM is 2004 so it is probably 30% Canadian, 20% Mexican, 30% Japanese, 19% European and 1% American. The others are all PRE 1980s.

When I say "anal" I don't mean arrogance. I don't mean "my brand car is better than yours"... I mean things like who's the most meticulate about proper date coding, correct chalk marks, correct stickers on things like suspension pieces, making sure the car stays 100% the same brand of parts, etc.

Of course, this may tie more into restoration than racing, but some people are more concerned about making sure that every chalk mark is there, every sticker is properly affixed and every piece is date coded. Even for a driver..

And some people just won't have another brand of engine under the hood. Regardless of racing, driver, or just to sell it and get it out of the driveway. Personally, I'm Ok with it- but there should be a good reason for it- like you're adding it to increase the overall power/ performance of the car. But, I get my feathers ruffled when I see someone using the wrong brand of factory rims on another car. ex- olds rims on a chevy. To me that's just wrong. It's like hearing fingernails scratching a chalkboard...

Jim- don't worry, I'll keep a Pontiac under the hood of that '69 firebird I have. (The more I think about that car the more I want to build a 400 for it. especially after reading that Pontiac engine book)

Tuske427

Take that 400, make it a 461, add a Comp XE "solid flat tappet" cam, and make 500 STREETABLE HP! (93 octane, reasonable "manners") "Slam-dunk"... Big "doins" in Injun country these days!

Jim

Oooh, that sounds nice already. :) I'm out in Ca- will that run on our environmentally friendly (joke) 91 pump gas they sell us here? Or am I going to have to compromise this set up for a lower octane accepting engine?

The difference in performance between a "91" and "93" octane engine is minimal. Maybe 2%. Last time I was out ther on the "left" Coast, ALL the Union 76 stations had 100 octane unleaded premium. Do they no longer? That was only a couple of years ago.

Where AT in California? I'm a California "kid", you know...

Jim

I live in Van Nuys. (San Fernando valley suburb) Actually, they call it "Lake Balboa" now, but there's a lot of car culture/ shops, history, etc associated with Van Nuys, so I stick with that name. "Lake Balboa" sounds too froofy for me. I may as well drive a BMW and wear clothes from Abercrombie and Fitch to live in Lake Balboa... (I think I just described some of my neighbors)

I grew up in upstate NY. Lived in Cleveland and in NJ for a couple of years before I had the chance to move out here. I like it here, despite the 91 octane, the high congested traffic and rediculous housing prices.

I don't think Unocal (union 76) is selling the 100 octane anymore. There should other brands I can buy, though. My most recent purchasing of 100 octane gas is in 5 gallon drums at my local "Cycle Trends" for my modified vintage Huqvarna dirt bike- VP brand.

Good to know the 91 octane won't make the 461 stroker suffer too much.

What dragged you away from Ca?

Dragged me away? Well, let me count the ways...

smog

crime

taxes

political "correctness" (an oxymoron if I EVER heard one...)

35,000,000 people...

Did I mention smog? Crime?... Not as good a place to raise my kids as it was to grow up a generation prior.

We lived in Tucson for a long while. IBM was in "decline", so I wanted back into the "engine" game. No work in Cal at the time (lots of unemployed aeronautical engineers flooding the "mechanic/machinist" market), no wages in Arizona, and people here (Virginia) are "race crazy". It seemed logical at the time...

The biggest difference, sociologically, I've noted, is that Western people stab you in the FRONT... I never had to watch my "back" like I do here. You should see the look on a redneck's face when he tries to scam me. I don't RUN scams on anyone. But I've seen 'em all! They (rednecks) really believe, California is full of useless fags and flakes. I know better... They also believe Virginia is the center of the known world. "Culture shock" is the best way to describe it.

If you're from New York, you've no doubt experienced "peacock syndrome" (the one that yells the loudest "wins"). Try that in a bar in San Bernardino, and there WILL be blood on the floor... Maybe that's why Westerners are less impolite. Who knows...

Van Nuys? Guys used to come up from there to Berdoo when I was a kid. Mostly, they brought their hot cars up to beat the "small town" guys. They usually went home a bit lighter, either money or the car... I remember one in particular, a black '55 Chevy with a 427 in it. He was gonna "smoke that Ford" (fastest car around was a '66 Fairlane with a "cammer" in it. Went high 9s in '71!!). NOT! Between Ray Pence, Billy Scott and Brent Smith, San Bernardino had some baddass cars! Billy was in love with my big sister. He went on to the "gas" record driving John Peters' "Freight Train" when it sported 2 big blocks. It seems like he went 7.10s right at 200 (on gasoline). I saw the car at Indy last year on display, but it had small blocks in it, and no mention of Billy as the driver. I asked John Peters if it was the same car. The look I got was "shut up, go away". Apparenlty no one was supposed to remember that part of the car's history. My sister said there was a disagreement over who should get the "credit", when he set the record (I think it was '69, but those years are a tad "fuzzy"). Billy also drove at the Indy 500 in '73. He and Swede Savage (RIP) were best friends. One of MY best friends' grandmother is buried next to Swede.

Ask around among the old-timers and see if anyone remembers Cajon Blvd. in San Bernardino. To this day, the best "street race" spot I've ever seen. 7 miles of straight road. No side roads. Flat. Concrete culvert about 2 miles into it. One of the guys that frequents a Pontiac board I visit, said, as recently as '02, he was out there racing on the same spot!

Be sure to check out Route 66 Rondevoux this Fall! You will OD on cars...

Jim

Sounds like you've accumulated some good stories over the years. I hope one day I'll be able to say that.

I'm not so sure the taxes here are any worse than NY. As an example my parent's home is worth half of what mine is, and they pay more in property taxes than I do each year.

While the smog and congestion are definite downsides, the low humidity, the frequent sunny days, warm weather and being in the middle of many other great places (vegas, san diego, san fransisco, hawaii, etc) still, imo, make it worth living here. Not to mention the weekly car shows that consist of more than just a camaro, a mustang and a '57 chevy, (a typical upstate ny car show or cruise night) the Pomona swap meets, Bob's big Boy in burbank on Friday nights, etc. all great stuff.

I will definitely make it to the San Bernadino car show- however, I'm gonna take my '57 belvedere there when I finish it. If you're interested to see the progress go to www.hotrodders.com, then locate the "project journals" (at the top menu bar) and scroll down to the bottom and select "view all journals". then, locate the project journal for "tuske427".

After I return from my HK trip for work next week, I'll be assembling some more..

I think that ford relys on their name the most. Although i dont know the current stats on the whole "GM Revolution" going on right now

I don't worry about brand loyalty. I have a Caddy engine in a 66 Pontiac, and I'm planning on putting diesels in two of my projects.

As long as nobody puts a chevy engine in a classic Mopar I'm happy :)

Im sure a ford fanboy would be more mitucalte about what he wants/wants to buy. I dont know many though. I know a Mopar guy who buys different kinds of cars (but mostly Mopar :banghead:)

Im a Ford guy through and through. It started with my dads big block ford cars in the 70-80's that got me hooked onto the blue oval. The chevy guys are the ones that stir my blood the most. :grinno:

GM revolution? What GM revolution? Last I heard is something about Nissan might be buying controlling interest in the company.

speaking of which- does anyone have the facts on this?

I'm most comfortable working on Chevys. Have a '64 'Vette and 388-powered '63 Chevy II in the family, plus a Suburban and '04 Silverado 4X4. Oh, and four BMW's from '80 through '04. Pre-'92 Bimmers are REALLY easy to work on!

As far as brand loyalty, I'm planning to drop a Caddy 500 in the "Vette (my old Suburban already has a built , smog-legal 383). Love Camaros but the new protorype is UG-LEE! I'd rather have the new Challenger (thie original '70 was the world's best '69 Camaro).

Sorry, with age I've developed "wide-angle vision".

I'm going to end it right here and now, mopar guys. How do i know? I am one.
We are very anal about #'s matching, yadda, yadda, yadda. Some guys even
go as far as to put the duct tape holding down wires exactly the same as the
factory did. To me, well, my challenger is a 73 so i don't care that much, but
nonetheless it is an all original, so that's great for me. Point is, not all of us are, ex.-me, but the rich guys with the hemis are.