Drying time for Tamiya TS30 silver leaf

After some trail and tribulation I have finally got some paint on my 206 WRC project. After airbrushing on three coats of TS30 I wasn't happy with the results. A little too rough. I wet sanded this down with 1500 and recoated from the can with much better results. How long do you guys wait before clearcoating?
I ask as last year my #24 Pepsi Nascar project was stalled when TS13 lacquer cracked over some Tamiya Mica silver - I think I waited a week before applying the lacquer but it cracked about one month later - after polishing and decal application.....:banghead: I have successfully cleared TS paints before (TS51) but I am determined not make a hash of this one.

Any advice is welcome.

Thanks

Paul

I usually apply the clear coat almost straight away, waiting maybe overnight or if everything is perfect (which is hardly ever) hit it straight after. I usually start with a few misted airbrush coats of either decanted TS13 or similar laquer clear. Never had the problem of cracking over time, but perhaps I've just been lucky?

I recall seeing a Tamiya page where they recomended that for TS13 you should either spray it 15 minutes after the colour coat or wait a month. Sounds like it is a slightly different formulation than their other paints and dries at dries at a dfferent rate. That could expalin the cracking some people experience. :dunno:

i tend to spray my first coat of clear right on top of my last coat of colour
i.e wet clear on wet colour.

to be more exact, i spray just enough colour to coat the car evenly and get the best colour (in the case of mica colour) and then i instantly spray my first coat of clear.
then i build up clear just as you would do colour so i end up only having to sand/polish the clear.

The rule of thumb I go by is 1 hour or 1 month. Otherwise you end up with problems. Have also heard that 24 hours in a dehydrator equals 1 month.

I always wait 1 to 3 days before adding clear coat...

You see. no real answer. you will have to try and see what's working for you.

Gloss Aluminum TS17, or Mica Silver would work better.
The Silver Leaf is a finer silver, but it separates when over coated with clear often.
The Mica Silver was formulated not to do that.
The Silver Leaf also does not lay down as smooth as the the other two colors.
I would suggest that you spray a couple light uniform coats of the Mica over what you have, (the Silver Leaf), and clear it about a half hour later and let it all dry for a week... - Mark

Ok - thanks for all of your advice guys. I'm confused more now than before??!!! :grinyes: I have heard/read of the 1 hour/1 month rule before, and I was going for the month rule, but I think I'll do a test piece and clearcoat at the same time and wait to see what happens.

Scale-master - I chose TS30 as it didn't have the flake in it that the Mica has - works Pugs were'nt metallic as far as I know - TS17 would have been an option though.. :)

Vric - you're right NO clear (geddit?!) answer :banghead:

I used the TS-17 on this one, as called out in the instructions. I had no problem with the clear separating the silver.
I didn't know the Mica Silver was that much coarser, my samples between the two looked about the same.
If you don't have a problem with the Silver Leaf separating and going dark after it gets cleared, use it, it's about as fine a silver color they have.

Another option is the AS-12 Bare Metal Silver. Almost as bright as Silver Leaf, but not as glossy, which isn't an issue if you are gloss coating it. Test first, but it might work better. It looks "cleaner" than the Leaf to me. Good luck... - Mark
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v92/Scale-Master/Scale-Master%20Models/DSC07703.jpg

Thanks Mark - I'll have a look at AS-12....nice 206.:smokin:

Hi
Not to get off the subject to much but i just had a question. You guys say clear within a few hours, how do i go about clear coating decals? I mean I wait a week for the paint to gas out throughy then apply decals wait a couple of days for them to dry, then do I have to wait for a month to clear over the decals? Or do i do the final wet colour coat, decal then clear all within a few hours?
Thanks for the help.
Nathan

Decals definitely need a lot of time to fully dry out, a good week as a guideline. Any moisture trapped underneath is going to be locked in by a clear coat and could cause bubbles or other trouble further down the track. Clearing over decals is always a risky business so care must be taken to use lots of thin mist coats before wet coating so any solvents in the paint can't attack the decals.

Hi
Thanks RallyRaider. Do you clear over your decals? Do I still have to wait for a couple of weeks after that to do clear or just a week after the decals have been applied?

Thanks and sorry for asking questions in your topic.
Nathan

I usually clear before and after decals. I think doing so makes the carrier film less visible. On most occasions I'm a little impatient to get things moving so probably leave it less than a week, certainly not a month. However in my experience I think results are better when more drying time is allowed, so being patient pays off in the long run. :)

Hi
Thanks RallyRaider I might try your way. Ive got the aoshima d1 skyline to do and want to protect all the decals.

Thanks Nathan

Just be careful Nathan when it comes to your initial coats of clear over the decals. Very thin mist coats, anything too thick and wet could spell trouble. I'd recommed laying the first two or three coats over the decals with an airbrush if you can, or be very, very lighthanded with a can.

i've just sprayed a model in TS-17 and done my usual straight TS-13 coat on top of the last wet colour coat. Not sure if it's because I seemed to have layed on the Clear too thickly but it looks like some of the pigment is seeping into the clear layer. Can't say this has happened before with my mica paints.
i'll get some pics up in the morning.

and now for a relevant question.
can you sand TS-17 to a shine or at all?
i was sanding to smooth out the body before the final coat and noticed that it just seemed to go dull. If you can't sand it, does that mean you need a perfect paint job before clearing?

Yes that seeping of the colour/metallic coat underneath is one of the reasons I clear before decals. TS-13 is hot stuff and really bonds well with the surface underneath. Thinner coats will minimise this effect.

I wouldn't recommend sanding metallics like TS-17 too much, unless you want a worn, uneven looking surface. Rather clear it and sand/polish the clear. A perfect finish is allways a good place to start. :) If there are major problems sand the metallic, paint it again, then clear it straight away.

i've just sprayed a model in TS-17 and done my usual straight TS-13 coat on top of the last wet colour coat. Not sure if it's because I seemed to have layed on the Clear too thickly but it looks like some of the pigment is seeping into the clear layer. Can't say this has happened before with my mica paints.
i'll get some pics up in the morning.

and now for a relevant question.
can you sand TS-17 to a shine or at all?
i was sanding to smooth out the body before the final coat and noticed that it just seemed to go dull. If you can't sand it, does that mean you need a perfect paint job before clearing?


I'm sorry to hear that. Here's what happened to my Gordon car last year TS13 over Mica silver.. - it really set my confidence back some way.....:frown:

http://images1.fotki.com/v290/photos/8/823979/3078271/DSCN0152-vi.jpg

You should just make out some splinters in the TS13 - these are all over the paint finish.:frown:

Looked real good before disaster struck.....

http://images1.fotki.com/v291/photos/8/823979/3078271/DSCN0073-vi.jpg

i asked about the polishing of the TS17 cos there isn't that warning sticker that you find on the other metallics/mica paints about using TS 13 on top first.

anyway.
here's my paint seeping.
it's not too bad in the photo but in life, it's quite apparent.
funny thing is, i just put on a nother coat of clear and that seems to have "fixed" some of the lighter patches. Must be something to do with the light....
http://x98.xanga.com/2cab5b300353339808521/w27187571.jpg

That is the problem (on the Porsche) I was referring to as "separating".
I have been able to avoid that with the TS17 by very lightly building up the clear in many, many light coats, never saturating it. That way it dries before it can permeate into the color. The down side is I often would have to polish the clear to remove a fine orange peel, or wait a month or two and put a another set of wetter coats on using the earlier ones as a barrier. Still, not a time to flood coat or the paint could attack itself and make wrinkles, bad scene...

The splintering (on the Monte Carlo) is a different problem. I have seen that happen for years. It is usually due to a situation where the color and the clear are curing at different rates due to either incompatibility, or different stages of their curing span, and the paint is fractured. It often continues for months, even years.
That is another of the reasons I prefer to shoot the Tamiya clear in the same session as the Tamiya color and let them cure together.

Trying to polish or color sand silver or gold, does not work well at all. Too much metallic, not enough pigment. That's why the mica colors can often be polished, more pigment... - Mark

i am beginning to understand why some people hate the thought of painting with TS17....
just put another clear coat on and once again, it started to separate pigment even though there is already a decent clear coat underneath.
the result:

http://x3d.xanga.com/e6a010633425640106040/w27370096.jpg
http://x65.xanga.com/8fc09325021a440106042/w27370098.jpg

as it stands, the worst parts are on the roof and on the bonnet lid so it's probably fixable, it being easy to mask+re-paint these sections.

That's weird. I used TS17 and TS13 on my second and third models; back then I really didn't know how to clear coat, so I just layed down one very wet, thick coat on the car bodies. Nothing happened, no reaction, and the clear coat didn't burn through the paint at all! That has led me to think that TS17 is very resilient and easy to paint with, but seeing all these problems, I guess that's not the case. :frown:

Personally I'd wet sand that back and reshoot the TS17.

...Which is what i did with my Pug 206 yesterday - wet sanded the TS30, added two coats and then did two mist coats of TS13 with airbrush and 30 mins later two wet coats of TS13 from the can.

Here's how mine turned out...

http://images16.fotki.com/v280/photos/8/823979/3078270/DSCN0154-vi.jpg

TS30 does darken under lacquer - so if you want more brighter silver go for the Mica..it should look good after polishing.

http://images16.fotki.com/v283/photos/8/823979/3078270/DSCN0156-vi.jpg

Now we wait to see what happens...:uhoh:

from my experience ts-17 sux, but im sure if you are careful enough with it then it can look great, in my opinion ts-30 looks best on engine parts, like manifolds and such. i find that enamels have the best metallic colors, testors has some very good ones