Emergency!! Please Help! Im Begging!

Please read my other post.
http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=3652990&goto=3652990

Everything seemed fixed. Looked like the cam sensor. Now my wife tried to go to work. No start. When key turned to ON, there id power momentarily to the coil pack then goes away. Originally primary resistance was .7-.8 ohms. Sposed to be .52-.62. I fugured pretty close. Now they appear to all be over 1 ohm like 1.1. If the coil pack is bad, will it tell the computer to quit sending power to coil pack????
Everything else is new, coolant temp sens, crank sens, cam sens. Im sorry, I am saying emergency cuz we have spent every dime on kids' xmas presaents cuz it WAS fixed. We got another $100 coming from my wifes mom to help with the bills. But shes sposed to drive 70 miles to get it. Now we're stuck again. Please, please help! My wife CANNOT miss anymore work. Not only is she losing money, she may get fired. I dont know where else to go or to do!!! Please??????????????

I must have read the coil pack primary resistance wrong or sumthin cuz of the angle I was testing at. I pulled it off to test again and all 3 primary(coil side of plug connector pins) to the B+ pin are still around .7 ohms so I guess it is still good. Or is .7 ohms too high?? Something is not letting the coil pack produce spark. When I turn the key on, the(what I assume is) ASD relay clicks and there is a noise like a light growl and there is power to the B+ on the coil pack for a couple seconds then the relay clicks again and the power to the B+ and the growl go away. During this, you can also hear(if youre inside) the fuel pump cycle on and then off. Fuel is still ruled out as far as I can tell. While cranking, fuel shoots strong out of the the schrader valve. Whats wierd tho, if it is the ASD relay killing the coil pack(Like its sposed to) then wouldnt it also be killing power to the fuel pump???? Sposed to. Which would suggest bad coil pack. But why would the resistance shoe good??? Perhaps the computer is killing the signal to the coil pack??? I don't even know how those signals are routed. My understanding is that the power for all these components, fuel pump, coil pack, injectors goes thru the relay. Does the relay just close/open a signal to the computer and then the signal goes thru the computer to each component??? Also with the key ON, I have 8.5 volts at the crank and cam sensors.My understanding is that the only 2 sensors that wu=ill trip the ASD relay are those 2. Man Im lost! Im leaning towards the coil pack or computer. But as far as I can tell the coil pack is good. I may(MIGHT) have another vehicle coming out here so we can at least be mobile. But I have got to get this figured out. I am trying so hard. Now Im worried we may have to return the kids's presents. If anyone can help at all, please help. ANY help is appreciated. There has to be something Im missing. The motor is basically not starting cuz no spark. That reason could be, bad coil pack, or ASD relay not letting it, or computer not lettimg the ASD let it. I dont know. Im really good atr figuring this stuff out but I am so frustrated and worried and nearing the dead end. My mother just called, at least a second vehicle is on its way. Well, Im gonna start calling wreckn yards for a computer. Thank you everyone for ANY help!!!!!!

hey man taz you cant quit now man you're surprizing me your on the right track and all you need is a little explanation on how this works so the cam and crank sensors get a 9v feed these are the only 2 sensors with 9v then they get interupted by the tone wheels at cam and crank this tells the pcm to ground the asd relay wich will give 12v to pump injectors and coil so if its not cranking or no signal of cranking going to pcm it wont ground the relay then if it grounds the pcm pulses the ground to the injectors and dwells the 3 remaining wires at the coil eaven if the coil was off the pcm would still try to work it make sure that you dont have a corroded 12v wire to or from the asd {supply or output} as on an open circuit or low load you will se 12v but under load may not be and pay particular attention to wiring at cam sensor area for possible intermittent shorts and crank also and if you cycle your key on off 3 times in 5 seconds does the check eng lamp come on or flash at this time when it wont start im standing by

OK, I actually started pulling the batt loose so i can inspect all the wires near the SBEC. Dark now.(no garage) :confused:
As for the ASD relay, if its the one i think it is, I even pulled it loose, tried a different, good relay, and I also jumpered 87 and 30 wile trying to start. But if the relay wont let power to everything, why would the fuel pressure still be there when cranking? Also I got code 33 and 42. 42 is no asd relay voltagesense at controller or auto shutdown relay control circuit. 33 isA?C clutch relay circuit. I think I got those codes from me messing with the relays tho. Is it possible for the SBEC to kill the coil but not everything else after the asd relay?? Is .7 ohms too high for the primary side of coil pack???

yes it is possible for pcm to kill the spark and not the fuel but opens or shorts can cause this also now does the check engine lamp come on and if you turned the key on with the asd disconnected it will code also does the fuel pump keep pumping while cranking this is important for determining a lost in cam or crank signal or can you monitor the 12v green and red tracer wire with a test lamp to see if it lights brightly or flickers again this will help determining wiring or sensor loss

yes it is possible for pcm to kill the spark and not the fuel but opens or shorts can cause this also now does the check engine lamp come on and if you turned the key on with the asd disconnected it will code also does the fuel pump keep pumping while cranking this is important for determining a lost in cam or crank signal or can you monitor the 12v green and red tracer wire with a test lamp to see if it lights brightly or flickers again this will help determining wiring or sensor loss
the check engine lt does not stay on. I will try turning key w/ asd unplugged. I gotta get my drop light out. Still raining too. We didnt rtry continuing cranking while watching fuel shoot out schrader valve, too messy. But i will anyway to see. So that will tell me if cam and crank sgnls are good??? Where is the green and red tracer wire??

No new ASD codes after trying key on with ASD unplugged. I do however now have a 24 code, TPS voltage low or high. But I think earlier I may have tried starting without the TPS plugged in. I think the 3 codes im getting are from me experimenting and messing with relays, jumping and testing. You're right, I just need a good understanding of the whole system and I thank you sooooo much for ur help. Havent tried cranking and seeing if fuel pump keeps shooting fuel. My helper ran to the PO Box. Will in a few.

the wire is at the coil 4 way connector check there with test lamp before checking fuel system as this should tell you the same if the asd shuts down as your cranking but make sure the pump continues to pump also as you may have a different problem from the first one you could have repaired the sensor fault and now the pump let go maybe i'm just trying to save you from unecesary purchases

OK, now I know which wire ur talkin about.The B+ on the coil pack plug. I actually checked it earlier. It will light solid at key on and go out a couple seconds later like I described earlier with the relay clicks and growl sound and u can hear the fuel pumpcycle for the same amount of time. The test light just comes on for a few and gone, regardless of cranking or not. This is the only activity for that circuit. And I have to turn key to OFF to reset it. As I said, I can also hear the relay right next to me during all this clickin on and then off(close, then open). Basically, like lets say the van was new. If you turn the key to ON but not start, you usually hear a shhzhzhzhzh sound for about 1 1/2 seconds. Then it stops but if you just turn right to start, u usually won't har that cuz u dont give it time. But in this case, you hear everything cycle sorta speak and should be able to continue to the start position to start the van but cant.
Now for the fuel, ya we didnt test it long enough cuz it was blowin fuel everywhere. This time I had her continue to crank. Fuel gives a good big spurt, then stops(still cranking). Also, just like the test light, you have to go back to ign. OFF to do it again, however it does it everytime so I think fuel pump is still good. Its definately looking more like that dam relay, huh??? or something(like SBEC[eeeek]) not letting the relay to stay closed. Any more thoughts?? Im standing by. THANK YOU!!!

PS- Just curious where you got all ur caravan/voyager knowledge and experience. You sure sound like you know what the hell ur talkin about. You are definately my beacon in the storm right now. I know it's probably late in Torronto. You don't know how much I appreciate this.

now like i said if the pcm doesnt see a engine revolution from cam or crank sensor it will not keep the relay grounded to start engine now if you clear the codes and attemp to start engine 6-7 times and recheck for codes do you get any oh and check the ground at the left frame rail just under the air cleaner housing under the main wiring harness and check the harness there also as it rubs on the frame rail and could short the harness all you need is 1 wire to short and this is it maybe lift harness while someone cranks it over move harness at cam and crank sensors also while cranking standing by i want the kids to have a nice christmas

now like i said if the pcm doesnt see a engine revolution from cam or crank sensor it will not keep the relay grounded to start engine now if you clear the codes and attemp to start engine 6-7 times and recheck for codes do you get any oh and check the ground at the left frame rail just under the air cleaner housing under the main wiring harness and check the harness there also as it rubs on the frame rail and could short the harness all you need is 1 wire to short and this is it maybe lift harness while someone cranks it over move harness at cam and crank sensors also while cranking standing by i want the kids to have a nice christmas
As you know, both crank and cam sensors are new, but I know how easy it is for even new ones to fail. Ive moved the cam and crank sensors harness areas every way but yanking them out. Also, I have tried it by bypassing the relay and jumping the common(30) and output(87) wires while cranking. Wouldn't this over ride the computer deenerdizing the relay and still allow the pump, injectors, coil to operate and at least try to start?? Starting to sound more and more like shorts or load failure due to such, huh?? Or computer. I will check the ground cable under air cleaner and all wires in same area. I actually started to earlier but its all i can do to stay outside long enough. Its dark and pouring outside. Would you rather resume this tomorrow?? We now have my parents Blazer for temporary transportation so my wife can go to work tomorrow. Im sure its late there. Do you work tomorrow? What time will you be available?? Its time for dinner with the family. I will eat while waiting for ur next reply.
One last thing.....How do I reset(erase codes)??? I thot it was just pull battery for like 30 seconds. My book doesn't say. OK supper time. I'll still keep refreshing.

you can disconnect battery for 15 minutes or pcm connector and yes i work all day tomorrow and i am commited to after work work for tomorrow and possibly thursday but i will check in when i can later and good luck i know you can figure it out and no if you bypass the relay it will not eaven try to pulse the injectors or the coil as the pcm does not get a feedback from asd so it knows there is a problem and wont attempt to start so retry harness movement tomorow with everything on

you can disconnect battery for 15 minutes or pcm connector and yes i work all day tomorrow and i am commited to after work work for tomorrow and possibly thursday but i will check in when i can later and good luck i know you can figure it out and no if you bypass the relay it will not eaven try to pulse the injectors or the coil as the pcm does not get a feedback from asd so it knows there is a problem and wont attempt to start so retry harness movement tomorow with everything on
Oh ya, I forgot. I also tried another known good relay. I think we're still even more so looking more towards wire integrety or computer itself. Thank you very much. I may even go out and look after dinner. I dunno. Pretty wet and late. I'll probably pull the battery tonight and pull the batt. plate. Already started anyway. That way I know the codes will be reset by morning. Thanx again. Hopefully Ill get it before you return. Fingers crossed. LOL!

OK, I pulled the battery, batt. tray and air cleaner assembly. I had noticed before that one of the plugs had a lil corrosion from battery acid. I found out now how bad. The water tight plug literally crumbled in my hand. I freed all the wires I could get my hands on from all convoluted flex, electrical tape and eroded heat wrap. I now have a spaghetti mess. Ya the ground you mentioned is a lil rusty. Could probably use a new eyelet and cleaned contact area. Anyway, I cut out the bad plug one wire at a time from both sides and spliced each one with bell connectors for now. I disconnected the crank sensor and some other sensor from the back of the motor and managed to get the whole harness up where I could work on it. I began tracing and learning a lil more about the wiring configuration. I learned that the orange(9volts) wire and the gray wire from the cam and crank sensors both come up and splice together into one wire into the computer. Not sure about the black wire. I need to know which of the three wires, orng, gray w/blck stripe, or blck w/ wht stripe, is the engine revolution signal back to the computer. If it is the gray(wouldn't be the orange, anyway.....it's power) then the computer isn't looking for a loss of signal because the two sensors are wired parallel in that respect. They would have to be wired in series or seperately. Maybe it's the black wire that sends the signal. I still don't know what to look for on thse wires to test them or how to test them off the vehicle. Well, I still need to inspect some of the wires. But I didn't see anything standing out in the way of cut, scraped, or shorted otherwise. I need to check the coil wires of the ASD relay(the actual "relay coil" wires, 85 and 86). If need be, I will find out where all three of the sensor wires and relay wires go and maybe run new wires for testing purposes just to bypass the vehicle harness. If nothing at that point, then I will start searching for a used SBEC in a wrecking yard somewhere. But it has to be the same year and engine combo, right?? I will continue wire inspection in the morning.
now if you clear the codes and attemp to start engine 6-7 times and recheck for codes do you get any
Oh ya, I tried to start it after splicing the wires from the bad plug. No go. Since the battery had been out, the codes were cleared. I tried to start 6 or 7 times to get a code. Nothing. Just 12 and 55, normal. Anyway, we will see what I find on the wires in the morning. If need be, I'll rewire that whole ignition circuit just to test it and see if it is the SBEC. Sort of bench it. :banghead:

hey there taz on the crank sensor the splice you see with the gray and black tracer wire is the signal wire and the splice doesn't connect the cam and crank but sends the crank signal to pcm and trans controller the orange 9v wire will be spliced and go to both cam and crank sensors it is kind of hard to get a good reading with a digital volt meter as they dont react or read fast enough but you can try hooking the meter to the gray wire at the crank sensor or i'm not sure about the colour at the cam but it's not the black/blue or the orange maybe tan and white but anyway you get the picture and turn key on check volts at both sensors cam and crank oh yah the black/blue wire at these sensors are shielded grounds that ground inside the controller so anyway check if you bump starter over and over if volts go low like very close to 0v then high or if you crank it continously see if sensor signal volts drop to approx the same on both sensors if one stays real high and the other goes to say 2.5 volts well the one staying high may be faulty hope you can understand my discription but i'm not a writter but i can repair

oh and also check the harness going by the battery as it turns to connect into the pcm have seen many rub through the side of the battery or acid damaging harness also

you did install a new cam sensor with the spacer on the end and it's sitting in as far as it's supposed to be???

Taz, Check the following post out. Maybe it will help.
"cranks no spark 3.8 town and country"

Taz, Check the following post out. Maybe it will help.
"cranks no spark 3.8 town and country"
Here's the same thread but as a hotlink for anyone else that may wanna see it:
cranks no spark 3.8 town and country (http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=3667016)
Thank you. I been looking away from the cam and crank sensors all this time cuz they're brand new and after install, the thing drove perfect for like 400 miles. Definately wouldn't hurt to make sure their still seated properly. Although, I'd hate to pull them out and find out the paper spacers are gone. Their hard to come by from what I understand. Also, When I got the cam and crank sensors, only the cam sensor had one. The crank sensor didn't. Was it sposed to???? Does it hurt anything to put the crank sensor all the way against the drive plate???? Well, I didn't chance it. I knew I needed something that would disolve so I took the paper spacer from the cam sensor and cut it into two perfect half moons and put on on each sensor in a way so that the longest side wouldn't miss the timing pully or the drive plate. This way both sensors had a spacer. Should I have left the crank sensor spacerless????
Thunder, ur right, the signal wire from the cam sensor is beige w/ yellow(i think, may be white). Anyway, like I said all the wires seem fine. I will triple check the ones by the battery again anyway. Never hurts. Like I said, I like to be methodical. Yes, the new cam sensor had a spacer as described above. I already figured out that the black w/ blue stripe was ground and orange was power. Thank you for telling me how to test the sensors. Ive really been wondering that. Ya my digital meter is probably too slow to test the cam and crank signals. Maybe my analog will respond fast enough????? They usually respond as fast as a test light. I always keep an analog around. :)
OK, Im gonna double check all that now. I think the ASD relay operation is fine, too. Time to doublecheck the sensors and wires. If I get no where, time to start phoning around for a SBEC in a wrecking yard. If I find one for exact year make/model and engine type combo, does it still need odometer and VIN programmed into it to operate???? Or will it at least run and just doesn't know its in a different vehicle???? From everything I've read, the reason you wanna find a used one is to avoid the high price of a new one obviously, but also to avoid the dealer cost of programming. Im a little confused here. It sounds as though ur saying that even a used one out of a junk yard will need to be programmed. It will still operate the vehicle, tho, right???? OK, back later! Thanx everybody!!

***EDIT- Just another note on the cam sensor......
The retaining bolt is buried pretty good. No room for a socket. I dont have any metric gearwrenches. So I had to use a regular 10mm wrench doing 1/8 turns to loosen and tighten. I thought I got tight enough but I remember the wrench wasn't gripping anymore. If the sensor backed away a bit, probably wouldn't be smart to try to reseat it without pulling it all the way out to check for a spacer, huh???? Are these disolving paper spacers pretty common in a parts store??? As I stated above, from what I've read, they are pretty hard to come by. Also, regarding the crank sensor, I read a post somewhere(might have been at another forum) where another person was talking about the paper spacers and said on his, his didnt have one on the crank sensor and he just went ahead and pushed the crank sensor all the way against the drive plate and its drove fine since. Just wondering. I really need to get the most accurate information possible. Telling me how to test the signals was a HUGE, HUGE plus!!!!!!! Thanx!

paper spacers are available at the dealer part# is 05252229 and if the sensor has a slotted retaining hole it needs spacer and no you dont need programing for this year vehicle when replacing the pcm make sure it is same year and same engine and on the cam sensor the only way to know if the spacer is still there is to remove it so you should go to the dealer and pick up a couple of spacers but call ahead with the part# to make sure of stock may have to order some

paper spacers are available at the dealer part# is 05252229 and if the sensor has a slotted retaining hole it needs spacer and no you dont need programing for this year vehicle when replacing the pcm make sure it is same year and same engine and on the cam sensor the only way to know if the spacer is still there is to remove it so you should go to the dealer and pick up a couple of spacers but call ahead with the part# to make sure of stock may have to order some
Thanx bro. Ya I havent been back out yet. Ive been on the phone since it is still pouring. Id kill for a garage right now. I built a lil tent deal attached to the back of the hood and propped up with sticks, LOL, Im actually using my 3 man tent. :rofl:
I have been checking prices on SBEC modules just so I know. I found a few already ranging from $50 to to $125 on the phone and some online ranging from $140 to "you dont wanna know". There was only one $50 one but it dont have a 30 day warranty. I found a couple for $75/ 30day. Plus I got a couple more numbers to call but thats looking like the average price around here.
I will doublecheck the cam sensor. Im still wondering about the crank sensor. Is it critical to have a paper spacer as well??? Also, will an analog meter be fast enough to check the signals from those sensors??? If I can verify the sensors are good and working without pulling them and the relay seems OK, then I would assume its time to go get the computer. Its late and I think Im done for the day. I will check those tomorrow. Im a lil more relaxed right now cuz we have a back up vehicle. Thank goodness!! Thanx for answering my questions.

PS- The reason I keep asking about the crank sensor is cuz it IS slotted but not like the cam sensor. I just wanna make sure. And Like I said, I had read somebody said they put theirs in w/out and worked fine. I wanna be positive. The crank sensor is a slotted sort of oval hole and the cam is a slotted sort of U-shaped hole(open, horse shoe like).

PS- The reason I keep asking about the crank sensor is cuz it IS slotted but not like the cam sensor. I just wanna make sure. And Like I said, I had read somebody said they put theirs in w/out and worked fine. I wanna be positive. The crank sensor is a slotted sort of oval hole and the cam is a slotted sort of U-shaped hole(open, horse shoe like).

Taz, when you installed the sensors it worked good for 400 miles, right?
and your crank sensor did not have a spacer. Well, chances are it may have been rubbing against the plate and it might be damaged. The only way to know is by pulling it out to check for sings of friction. Same goes for your cam one. Another possibility would be that you didn't tighten them enough and came loose. The reason your pcm is cutting power after 2 seconds is definitely 'cause is not getting a signal from either sensor (forget about the coil pack, it's good. even if primary resistance is at 1.1) Yes, I know that cam sensor is a pain in the ass to install, but that's the one that was making me pull my hair when I was not getting spark. My advice would be to first check the crank one and if it isn't touching put it back in and if no spacer available insert it all the way in till it hits the plate then slightly pull it out just to create a small gap. If after doing this she still doesn't fire, try loosening the cam sensor and press slightly on it while somebody cranks the engine (careful with the drivebelt).

Taz, when you installed the sensors it worked good for 400 miles, right?
and your crank sensor did not have a spacer. Well, chances are it may have been rubbing against the plate and it might be damaged. The only way to know is by pulling it out to check for sings of friction. Same goes for your cam one. Another possibility would be that you didn't tighten them enough and came loose. The reason your pcm is cutting power after 2 seconds is definitely 'cause is not getting a signal from either sensor (forget about the coil pack, it's good. even if primary resistance is at 1.1) Yes, I know that cam sensor is a pain in the ass to install, but that's the one that was making me pull my hair when I was not getting spark. My advice would be to first check the crank one and if it isn't touching put it back in and if no spacer available insert it all the way in till it hits the plate then slightly pull it out just to create a small gap. If after doing this she still doesn't fire, try loosening the cam sensor and press slightly on it while somebody cranks the engine (careful with the drivebelt).
No my crank sensor went in with a spacer. It just didn't come with one. I wanted to be safe so I took the one on the cam sensor and cut it in half to make 2 half moon spacers. Then I placed them on the end of each sensor so that they would go in with the longer side(same as original diameter width) against the rotation of the drive plate(on crank) and timing pully(on cam). This way they were sure not to miss contact.
Ya I am positive the crank sensor is tightened enough. I am only concerned about the cam sensor cuz of the lack of tightening sweep space. Thank god for gearwrenches, just too bad I dont have any metric ones. :(
I used a regular 10mm doing 1/8 turns on the 12 point closed end. Unfortunately, they're old wrenches so it wanted to slip off a bit when I needed to really put some torque on it. But it felt pretty tight.
At any rate, I think I am at least done looking for parts to throw at it. It is definately either the new sensor(s) came unseated or somehow went bad, or a wiring issue, or the ECM. I wil test the sensors tomorrow the way 1thunder taught me and just do a triple check on ALL wiring and the ASD relay. At that point, it may be time to find $75 so I can get the computer.
Ya, the crank sensor is fine, Im sure. I will doublecheck everything. Thank you so much for repying. That's what makes these communities so wonderful. We all come here and do this to help people and cuz we love to do it. Maybe to pay you all back, I will invite you all to come and check out the forum I Moderate at. Its a PC tech forum. Just like here but for PC stuff. You all may know a lot about cars but since you come here you must use a computer. If any of you ever need help, I know probably as much about computers as you all do about cars. MOD's, Im not spamming here, LOL! The site I MOD at is GoTechZilla (http://www.gotechzilla.com/index.php)
you guys are welcome to come check it out. We're still new but growing rapidly! I use the same user name there.
Anyway, I'll do those tests tomorrow. Thanx guys!!!!!!

HEY!!! I just thot of sumthin. I got a 3/8 swivel and a lot of extensions. I wonder if I could go with my 3/8 ratchet thru the swivel to a 3/8-1/4 adapter to a 10mm socket to tighten that cam sensor.
Hmm......nah, probably not cuz I cant even get the 1/4 ratchet in there, but its worth a try. Maybe the extensions geting the working action up out of the way in the open will allow me to get a better torque on it. Thanx, Im glad yall thot of that!! J.K., LOL!!

HEY!!! I just thot of sumthin. I got a 3/8 swivel and a lot of extensions. I wonder if I could go with my 3/8 ratchet thru the swivel to a 3/8-1/4 adapter to a 10mm socket to tighten that cam sensor.
Hmm......nah, probably not cuz I cant even get the 1/4 ratchet in there, but its worth a try. Maybe the extensions geting the working action up out of the way in the open will allow me to get a better torque on it. Thanx, Im glad yall thot of that!! J.K., LOL!!
Taz, by the way you described how you tightened the cam sensor, I bet you it's become loose and unseated. I don't know if you noticed but there is a hole in that engine mount plate where you can stick an extension thru to get to the bolt with a 10mm socket. Anyway, try loosening it and play with it like I said while some one cranks the engine.

My brother and I were totally stumped by an Intrepid with a 3.3, we replaced everything until out of desperation I stumbled upon the answer, I put a washer between the crank sensor and the block so it would space it out just a little bit, and have not had any other problems with it. And the sensor was new, along with the cam sensor, coil pack, tried a different computer, ignition switch.

Just for heck of it, try that, see what happens!!!!

Taz, by the way you described how you tightened the cam sensor, I bet you it's become loose and unseated. I don't know if you noticed but there is a hole in that engine mount plate where you can stick an extension thru to get to the bolt with a 10mm socket. Anyway, try loosening it and play with it like I said while some one cranks the engine.
Really?? Cool, I didn't see that but I will look tomorrow. I thot the bolt head was exactly half square with the edge of that motor mount. I know which ur talkin about, tho. I will look for that tomorrow.

As for the crank sensor, coalminer, no offense:
My brother and I were totally stumped by an Intrepid with a 3.3, we replaced everything until out of desperation I stumbled upon the answer, I put a washer between the crank sensor and the block so it would space it out just a little bit, and have not had any other problems with it. And the sensor was new, along with the cam sensor, coil pack, tried a different computer, ignition switch.

Just for heck of it, try that, see what happens!!!!

....but if you added a washer to the crank shaft retaining bolt wouldn't that just rotate the sensor on its axis leaving the sensor in the same depth?? The crank shaft sensor's depth position would not be effected by the lateral heighth of the retaining bolt as it is not proportional to the depth of the sensor. All that would do is rotate the sensor in a 360 degree radius leaving it in the same depth.....
.....Oh wait.... I understand what you mean now. LOL!!!....sorry!!!!! Put like a 3/4 inch washer in front of the sensor between it and the block to make up for that space needed to accurately pick up the revolution of the motor, right????? Like make up for the spacer??? Gotchya! Ya but like I said, pretty sure the crank sensor is good. Good luck doing that with the cam sensor.
No room there. I dunno, maybe the Intrepid is different. I can only go by what I see. But, god I appreciate all of you helping. I will definately look for that access hole in the motor mount tomorrow. That sounds like a life saver, there. OK guys, thanx for all the help. you dont know how much I appreciate it. I got a lot to look at tomorrow. I will let ALL of you know where I am. Thanx!!!!!!!!!

The washer I used was only about 1\16th of an inch think, the thing was that the new sensor was too close to the flywheel to sense it correctly, so it would run, but very poorly, it would sputter and die at random, but then sometimes it would run just fine. Since we put that spacer, not had any problems at all with it.

I wouldnt think the voyager 3.3 would be much different that the intrepid 3.3, but you never know.

The washer I used was only about 1\16th of an inch think, the thing was that the new sensor was too close to the flywheel to sense it correctly, so it would run, but very poorly, it would sputter and die at random, but then sometimes it would run just fine. Since we put that spacer, not had any problems at all with it.

I wouldnt think the voyager 3.3 would be much different that the intrepid 3.3, but you never know.
No probably not but that satisfies my curiousity. Cuz the paper spacers that disolve are about 1/16 inch thick. So I guess I kinda understood what you were sayin. GOOD IDEA!!!

The washer I used was only about 1\16th of an inch think, the thing was that the new sensor was too close to the flywheel to sense it correctly, so it would run, but very poorly, it would sputter and die at random, but then sometimes it would run just fine. Since we put that spacer, not had any problems at all with it.

I wouldnt think the voyager 3.3 would be much different that the intrepid 3.3, but you never know.
No probably not but that satisfies my curiousity. Cuz the paper spacers that disolve are about 1/16 inch thick. So I guess I kinda understood what you were sayin. GOOD IDEA!!! Shows innovation and intuition. Nice!

Hmm...nevermind post #31. Not sure what happened there, Dam internet. :rofl:

Sorry I haven't posted back. Had a million things going on as it's nearing christmas. I've also been letting my back rest. I've been bent over the fender for a week, LOL. I'm gonna probably have to buy another computer anyway or try to fix this one if I test and determine this one is not causing the problem. I accidently broke off the nut that the plug retaining bolt goes into. I was just putting the plug back on and tightening the retaining bolt and with almost no force, the stupid lil nut busted out. Maybe I can epoxy or glue it back in. If not, then the plug won't stay secured. Junk plastic!! :rofl: Anyway, I will continue to keep you all updated. Thanx again!

Update- OK I glued the nut back in the computer but now its at a slight angle so the bolt is stripping. I gotta get my tap and die set from my other tool box at my parents house tomorrow. Then I can chase the threads. Anyway, I just removed the bolt for now. I was gonna start testing the cam and crank sensors like thunder said watching for the voltage on the sgnl wires. I hooked everything back up. Harness is still layed out at this point. I used the weight of the battery to hold the plug on the brain. I exposed the inside of the water tight connector(from one end) that holds the sgnl wire from cam sensor to access the wire and the crank wire is already exposed cuz its in a bell cap at the moment. I got my analog meter out. Checked for 9volts at the pwr wires, good. Went to test the signal on one. At first crank there was a sputter then just cranking. O_o.....odd. So I moved my meter out of the way and cranked again. No start. Tried a couple more times and bam, fired. NICE!!! But what???!!!!O_o So I started moving harness and wires around while it was running. Nothing seemed to stop it. I jerked up and down on the cam sensor best I could. No problem there. OK, so dont get me wrong, Im glad it fired. But I dont trust it unless I know why. I dont wanna return the borrowed vehicle and drive another 400 miles and have it die again. I wonder if removing the corroded plug did it and it was just so flooded from trying to start it. Everytime I turn the key and get fuel for just 2 seconds, its gotta sit there in the cylinder head, right? Or maybr the bolt to the brain was messed up before and removing the bolt did it and then the flooding possibility. I dunno. Well at this point, its dark again, but Im gonna resecure part of the harness and leave some of it open and then while running, Im gonna go over each wire and connector to see if I can make it die. I'll look closer at the brain plug. Maybe theres a slight almost invisible wire break or weak point I can track down. Or do you think me taking off and messing with the brain may have jiggled something on the main board?? I dont wanna spend the $75 if I dont have to. I'll play around some more now that I actually got it running and post back. If these new findings spark any ideas, please let me know. Im not out of the woods yet. I just been not quite as worried cuz christmas was comin up and we got a back up vehicle. But I still gotta figure it out. I will keep you all updated. You guys have been such a help. I never would have got this far without you. Thanx again!!!!

hey taz Merry Christmas man to you and your familly
now back to your van the signal wire was at 0v could be faulty sensor or wire shorted to ground or faulty pcm i'm thinking sensor fault was this an aftermarket sensor

hey taz Merry Christmas man to you and your familly
now back to your van the signal wire was at 0v could be faulty sensor or wire shorted to ground or faulty pcm i'm thinking sensor fault was this an aftermarket sensor

sorry about that didn't mean to repost like that too many things happening right now

Taz, I told you before and I'm telling now, your cam sensor was probably not seated at the proper gap. Now that's running just make sure you tighten it with a socket and your troubles should be over.

O_o.....
Not sure what you guys read. Thats OK, tho. Just nice to have you guys helping. I never actually tested the signals, thunder. I didn't get a chance. When I went to test the signal from both sensors with my analog meter just like you told me(watch the voltage differences), the van just decided to start, remember? Wierd. So ya I let it go cuz it was time for holiday cheer. I will probably get back on it tomorrow or the next day. But since it is at least starting fine now, I can continue to check wires, harness's, plugs and connectors and see what may have been loose or crushed causing the problem. Aldo, I will still check the cam sensor depth if I get nowhere. At this point, I will need to call the dealership and order a couple spacers to check that. Hope you guys all had a good holiday, as well. I will keep you informed. Thanx!!!!