& the Koeniggsegg CC, which there wasn't room for. What dya think. Some tough competition.

F1 LM without any hesitation. Upon thinking about it, I choose the F1 LM.

Any reason why? I would be tied between the C12-s and the F1LM. The Mclaren might be superior in performance, but not by much and the Pagani I think is what pops into my mind when you think of Supercars. Supercar = Zonda

for me, supercar = Skyline GT-R :D
but the next choice would be supercar = McLaren F1 :p
.... without hesitation.

Well, my initial choice is because I think...
Supercar=Zonda, but ULTIMATE DRIVING machine=McLaren. It is the definitive supercar...No, it is more than a supercar. It is the ultimate in performance.

Then, I think...
Well, it's not that much better performing than the others, and the CC even claims better stats (although I haven't seen any definite tests confirming them) but the F1 is legendary. It's awesome. It is gorgeous as well as blindingly fast. It's my generation's Shelby Cobra AC. It's the car that no matter what argument anyone poses, they won't be able to change my mind. It's because it has been for so long the car that I'm now forever, completely biased and in awe. I love it.

The Mclaren is the Best performing and probably the best looing outta the bunch.

Originally posted by carmaster@af
The Mclaren is the Best performing and probably the best looing outta the bunch.

Wait, wait, wait....."probably"? It is f'in gorgeous! Not to knock any of the others, but it is pure sex!

Give me the Pagani Zonda C12 S

Hand over the Pagani keys, por favor.

nunca pronuncia la hache in espanol Zonda C12s.. uhh.. yeah.... la temeratura es something degrees

what? no B. engineering EDONIS? but it canbeat all of these! maybe not, but it can definately keep up!!!!

No comparision: McLaren F1 Lm.
In my supercar, I want something special, like an $18000 muffler, 50 grand of gold on the engine, arrow-head seating posiition, amazing in every regard.
Teh others just don't cut it. (well they do, but not as well as the McLaren):D

Originally posted by igor@af
for me, supercar = Skyline GT-R :D
but the next choice would be supercar = McLaren F1 :p
.... without hesitation.
i hope you are joking!! :) The McLaren LM...without a doubt...fastest of the group....it is just bad ass!!

actually the lm is quite a bit faster then the other cars in this group...check out a 0-150-0 time on it ...it's amazing. The McLaren LM is pretty much the fastest, almost street legal, track, road driveable car you can buy. I don't see how this is even a question..unless you just think the other cars are nicer to look at...which is kind of a lame reason to pick one super car over the other.

I thought the LM was road legal (in Europe, anyway):confused:

Originally posted by Chris
I thought the LM was road legal (in Europe, anyway):confused:
but we yanks...have to settle for a dumbed down version...autobahn with an LM..hmmmm.... :)

Actually, teh LM is slower than the 'regular' F1, due to aerodynamic considerations. It is faster accelerating, has more power, and less weight. More of a track car than a road car. ANd only 5 in existence (all orange)

Originally posted by Chris
Actually, teh LM is slower than the 'regular' F1, due to aerodynamic considerations. It is faster accelerating, has more power, and less weight. More of a track car than a road car. ANd only 5 in existence (all orange)
top speed?? sure, but who cares when you are going upwards of 200 which it will still do. the first year they took on lemans they finished 1-3-4-6-7 i think...and the LM that you can get...is the exact same car that took lemans by storm. i saw one for sale on the internet a while ago...one of the lemans cars itself.

The orange is cool looking..it's my desktop at home.

yeah.. once your above 200 mph it just doesn't matter...

and plus the LM looks better than the regular



I would still take the zonda for looks... once you get below 4 seconds to 60 mph and above 200 mph, which the Zonda and McLaren both do, you don't care about anything better, so i'd take the Zonda based on looks

Originally posted by Adam
yeah.. once your above 200 mph it just doesn't matter...

and plus the LM looks better than the regular



I would still take the zonda for looks... once you get below 4 seconds to 60 mph and above 200 mph, which the Zonda and McLaren both do, you don't care about anything better, so i'd take the Zonda based on looks
the LM will not go under just 4...it will make 0-60 under 3!! that is a huge difference....looks...that bubble eyed, with the brown eye in the back thing....you think looks better the LM?? well, everyone has the right to their opinion...... :frog:

S7 looks better than both. :)

Originally posted by Lizard King
S7 looks better than both. :)
first off...you are wrong!! :) with that said..i'm talking about spening over a million.... i want power and performance...even if the S7 actually looked better, which it doesn't (never seen a car with more scoops and crap..looks like a riced nsx or something:)), I would still much rather have the LM! the S7 uses some kind of ford V8 or some crap....super car...jeez... :)

The LM's you can buy are BETTER than the LeMans ones. They removed teh limiters, so they got more power. They are different than the racing versions in no other way. Whcih is good:D

And the S7 uses a lowly Ford V8 (with about 550 hp). It has 64 scoops on it.

And the McLaren would have way better acceleration than the Pagani. Here is a pic o fthe McLaren:

http://209.132.49.149/images-large/1995_mclaren_f1_lm-2.jpg
http://209.132.49.149/images-large/1995_mclaren_f1_lm-1.jpg
http://209.132.49.149/images-large/1995_mclaren_f1_lm-3.jpg


Nice:D :D

I'll forget the looks thing, because looks are subjective. (I think the S7 looks better)

But oh my god, I thought this board was free of such ignorance as to call the Ford V8 shit and lowly. Just what is shit about it? Explain.

Its a fantastic engine. All the power and torque you could ever want, plus its more reliable than the engines these other cars are running. The sound alone makes it a great engine.

Originally posted by Lizard King
I'll forget the looks thing, because looks are subjective. (I think the S7 looks better)

But oh my god, I thought this board was free of such ignorance as to call the Ford V8 shit and lowly. Just what is shit about it? Explain.

Its a fantastic engine. All the power and torque you could ever want, plus its more reliable than the engines these other cars are running.

dude i got nothing against ford V8's but to put it in the same league as the BMW M Power V12, with over 650HP, almost 8k redline....come one. We are talking about apples and oranges here. That ford V8 would be awesome in the Mustang Cobra R or something like that, but a supercar...no way. I want a V10, or V12, light weight, high revving, insane-o HP engine. Besides the v12 in the McLaren has way more then enough torque...it is a non-issue.

More reliable....i seriously doubt it. The McLaren engine isn't no honda 4 banger, but it is fairly reliable for what it is...and really who cares about reliablility here...we are talking about supercars...if you afford a car with gold plating covering the engine...like you are gonna care if you have to fix your motor once in a while!! :)

So basically the things that make the Ford engine unworthy are in your mind.

You'll be suprised how light the Ford engine is. It is all aluminum after all. 8 cylinders is enough.

You also talk like the Ford engine isn't powerful. The only reason why it isn't more powerful is that Saleen have built it that way. You can buy a 427 Ford with 750hp.

The engine has a 7000rpm redline, not that redlines mean anything in the real world.

The BMW engine in the McLaren is in no way better than the 427 Ford.

Originally posted by Lizard King
So basically the things that make the Ford engine unworthy are in your mind.

You'll be suprised how light the Ford engine is. It is all aluminum after all. 8 cylinders is enough.

You also talk like the Ford engine isn't powerful. The only reason why it isn't more powerful is that Saleen have built it that way. You can buy a 427 Ford with 750hp.

The engine has a 7000rpm redline, not that redlines mean anything in the real world.

The BMW engine in the McLaren is in no way better than the 427 Ford.
i like the 427....but i have yet to see any car with a 427 that can do what the McLaren can do...and if they are the just as good...why didn't mclaren use a the 427... HP is not the end all of the game...the engine in the McLaren is perfectly tuned for that car...it was designed with that car in mind. they just did not take some crate engine, build it...and then shove it into a light weight shell (the S7). The entire car was build around that engine. You can make 800+ Hp our of a chevy 350...my friend has one on his drag mustang...he put a 350 from chevy into, bored it out, built it...for about 20k...thing runs 8 sec 1/4 miles...cool, but I would take the McLaren any day...engineering is much more then just slamming a big engine in a light body...and calling it good.

The Mclaren Lm took everyone at LeMans...first time it ever ran. Every car finished the 24 hour race..all in the top 7...no one has ever or most likely will ever repeat that.

I agree entirely. A supercar is more than a crate engine in a fast car. The S7 may be fast, powerful, and balanced. But for my money, I want something exotic. And McLarens have been wrung out repeatedly without breaking, as is the nature of endurance racing.
In no way am I critisizin gcrate engines or the S7's performance. It's just that 427's are a dime a dozen, and McLAren V12's are perfect for the car. It is the ultimate in engineering. And thats that:)

Like I said, its all in the mind. :)

I'm not sure but I think the 427 used in the S7 isn't just a straight crate motor implant. They did there own work to it.

I'm sure someone has built a 427 powered car that can beat a McLaren on the track. It got pretty poor road holding marks on the skid pan. Yes, I know theres more to a car than numbers.

The Ford GT40 could beat anything in its day.

True, GT 40's were invinciable, and Saleen re-works the engines. And the McLaren skip-pad numbers are, er, can't find it now. Will try and post it later.

Originally posted by Lizard King
Like I said, its all in the mind. :)

I'm not sure but I think the 427 used in the S7 isn't just a straight crate motor implant. They did there own work to it.

I'm sure someone has built a 427 powered car that can beat a McLaren on the track. It got pretty poor road holding marks on the skid pan. Yes, I know theres more to a car than numbers.

The Ford GT40 could beat anything in its day.

well, its day has passed. and the mclaren lm will make S7 look like a chump on a road course..plain and simple. I don't care if the engine "could" have this much HP, or the chassis "could" be take this much stress. The proof is in the numbers and no road going car on the planet is faster all around the the McLaren F1 Lm. And i'm sure saleen did work on the engine..that is not what i meant...the engine in mclaren was designed from the ground up to work with the dynamics of the Mclaren. The 427 in the S7 wasn't. A good road car is a balance of power and engineering....you cannot just add more HP and expect it to be faster. or just give it concrete suspension...it maybe faster in so regards, but overall will be inferior.

I wish someone would get an LM and S7 on nurburgring (sp?)....this would put to rest all this speculation!! :)

skid pad?? jeez, so it wouldn't be a good auto-x er!! :)

Originally posted by Z06Lover


the engine in mclaren was designed from the ground up to work with the dynamics of the Mclaren. The 427 in the S7 wasn't. A good road car is a balance of power and engineering

You got it right. ;) You can't just take a trip to BMW and ask to purchuse the M S70/2 engine specifically designed for McLaren Car's F1 line. It was, like ZO6Lover (who isn't a ZO6 lover lol) said, "designed from the ground up to work with the dynamics of the Mclaren." You can get a 427 though. :)

Originally posted by Racer 20


You got it right. ;) You can't just take a trip to BMW and ask to purchuse the M S70/2 engine specifically designed for McLaren Car's F1 line. It was, like ZO6Lover (who isn't a ZO6 lover lol) said, "designed from the ground up to work with the dynamics of the Mclaren." You can get a 427 though. :)

hey..i love the Z06....but, decided for now it wasn't the car for me...i appreciate the bang for the buckness of it!! :) (did i just say....bang for the buckness?????:))

I can understand if it was a money issue but an S2000??!!! lol Over a ZO6??? :rolleyes: You got to be kidding! lol j/k The S2000 is a fun little car. :)

what! no Zonda fans!! ahh!

where are ya all? RALLY TO ME!!! ;)

I'll be different: I like the Diablo. Diablos look cool, and BY FAR have the coolest name. :)

Most people love Zonda's or they don't know about them. But in this company, they just aren't as good as a LM. But then again, nothing is:D

Interesting comparo!!

1996 Lamborghini Diablo SE30 Jota
Engine: V-12 HorsePower: 595.0 bhp @ 7300 rpm
Torque: 347.4 ft-lbs @ 4800 rpm
0-60(sec): 3.7 Top Speed: 211.3

1996 McLaren F1 LM
Engine: V-12 HorsePower: 668 BHP @ 7800 RPM
Torque: 520 FT-LB @ 4500 RPM
0-60(sec): 2.9 Top Speed: 225

1999 Pagani Zonda C12-S
Engine: V-12 HorsePower: 500 BHP @ 5500 RPM
Torque: 531 FT-LBS @ 3900 RP
0-60(sec): 4.0 Top Speed: 200

2001 Saleen S7
Engine: V-8 HorsePower: 550@6400RPM
Torque: 525@4000RPM
0-60(sec): 3.8 Top Speed: 322 km/h

Info from Concept Carz.

Originally posted by Z06Lover


well, its day has passed. and the mclaren lm will make S7 look like a chump on a road course..plain and simple. I don't care if the engine "could" have this much HP, or the chassis "could" be take this much stress. The proof is in the numbers and no road going car on the planet is faster all around the the McLaren F1 Lm. And i'm sure saleen did work on the engine..that is not what i meant...the engine in mclaren was designed from the ground up to work with the dynamics of the Mclaren. The 427 in the S7 wasn't. A good road car is a balance of power and engineering....you cannot just add more HP and expect it to be faster. or just give it concrete suspension...it maybe faster in so regards, but overall will be inferior.

I wish someone would get an LM and S7 on nurburgring (sp?)....this would put to rest all this speculation!! :)

skid pad?? jeez, so it wouldn't be a good auto-x er!! :)

The McLarens day has passed. I proved my point though.

A car isn't necessarily inferior, just because its engine (or any other part) wasn't made exclusively for the car. It might not be a million dollar supercar but it might be able to beat one.
That isn't my point though. My point is that the 427 Ford isn't shit or lowly.

Oh, and there are plenty of road going cars that will beat a McLaren.

Originally posted by Lizard King


The McLarens day has passed. I proved my point though.

A car isn't necessarily inferior, just because its engine (or any other part) wasn't made exclusively for the car. It might not be a million dollar supercar but it might be able to beat one.
That isn't my point though. My point is that the 427 Ford isn't shit or lowly.

Oh, and there are plenty of road going cars that will beat a McLaren.

hahaah...how can the mclaren LM's day have passed if no factory car made can beat it on a road course? Nothing from Porsche, ferrari, anything from japan or america!! and don't give me some crap about a modified viper..blah blah..i'm talking about factory cars..the mc laren f1 even in stock form, not the lm, is faster on a road course then any factory car available.

beat in what?? what do you mean by beat? straight line? pull more g's? sure...so what ... i would like to find a road going car, from a factory..of any kind, that can beat a mclaren lm around nurburgring?? name one!! just one!! and the S7 would not even get close...the lm weighs 2300lbs with over 650 HP.

there is nothing wrong with the 427, but if i had the money...no way would i pick that over the bmw engine in the mclaren...it isn't even an option. I would love the 427 in the S7 in a car, because i could probably afford it, but if money is no option..give me the v12 m power engine anyday. I think a single drive in an LM would change your mind. I have a video of a guy driving the McLaren at speed....if you want i can give it to you...it isn't even an LM..it's a big download though.

give us the video!! I have the sound track from it, and it is like 2 and half minutes or something. I would love to see it though!!

McLaren = Diablo + 100something hp - a lot of weight.

Originally posted by Chris
give us the video!! I have the sound track from it, and it is like 2 and half minutes or something. I would love to see it though!!
i got it on my computer at home...i will try to set up an ftp site or something this weekend...and will post the link it is awesome. i got a couple..one is a 230+ mph run, supra tt vs mclaren f1 (don't know if i still have that one...pathetic...it is those dorks from that japanese "drifter" magazine...short shifting a mclaren...should be illegal!! :)), and then the best one showing tiff driving it (the english guy from best motoring!!

Seen the supra one. And short-shifting, I've never heard that before. What is it exactly.:confused:

Oh you changed it from any street car to production car huh?

The S7 would be pretty close on the track ya know. It has better cornering and about equal in the quarter mile.

Originally posted by Lizard King
Oh you changed it from any street car to production car huh?

The S7 would be pretty close on the track ya know. It has better cornering and about equal in the quarter mile.
better cornering?? why cuz its skid pad was better...jeez... whatever..this is getting out of hand.

the lm does 0-60 in 2.9 secs, the s7 does 0-60 in 3.8...the 1/4 is not close...1 sec in the 1/4 is 10 car lenghts!!! besides you are looking at skid pad numbers of the standard f1, not even the LM!! the lM has a huge functional wing on it!! It probably pulls over a G....one look at it's 0-150-0 time...

i'm done with this thread. the s7 is a fine car costing 1/4 of the LM. I would take the carrera gt over s7 any day...and the lm over a carrera gt...i was talking about production cars, the whole time...if a car is street legal, it maybe faster in one area then the lm, but it won't be able to dominate it in all areas....

Originally posted by Racer 20
I can understand if it was a money issue but an S2000??!!! lol Over a ZO6??? :rolleyes: You got to be kidding! lol j/k The S2000 is a fun little car. :)
i almost bought a z06, but saved 16k with the s2000. I could have bought a Z06, but the extra money was not worth it to me...especially with the great re-sale value of teh S2000 and reliability. The s2000 will corner just as hard....just not accelerate as hard. Motor trend go there second fastest slalom speed and time ever with a production car in the S2000 at over 70 mph. The only car to beat it: Viper ACR at 71mph.

I love driving twisties...so for 16k less...the s2000 was the car for me!! :)
5.3 0-60, 13.6 1/4 mile (time slips from friends...i know mags got slower:))
110 ft 60-0 (2.6 secs, over 1G...it feels weird...trust me..it kinds hurts!! :))
for 32k...it can't be beat!! :)

Originally posted by Chris
Seen the supra one. And short-shifting, I've never heard that before. What is it exactly.:confused:
revving all the way...shifting before red line...they do it in the f40 too...to make it closer or something dumb. in the f40 the driver doesn't even put both hands on the wheel between shifts or during cornering...these dorks are part of the "drifting" sub-culture...not real race car drivers! tiff is sweet ass!! :)

Originally posted by enzo@af
McLaren = Diablo + 100something hp - a lot of weight.
:)
McLaren LM = Diablo + 120 HP - 1700lbs + functional downforce wing!! :) + better chassis

post whoreing!! lol :D

I can't be bothered to argue about the McLaren and S7 anymore.

I am too astonished to read that someone gave up the chance to own a Z06...damn! Its one of the best track cars you can buy. It has the Corvette name and heritage and Corvettes are reliable.

Originally posted by Lizard King
I can't be bothered to argue about the McLaren and S7 anymore.

I am too astonished to read that someone gave up the chance to own a Z06...damn! Its one of the best track cars you can buy. It has the Corvette name and heritage and Corvettes are reliable.

you have never driven either the S2000 or Z06..i'm sure. I have .... you might read about numbers and say Oh the Z06 is sooo much better, even though numbers say it is only faster in a straight line...which it seems is what matters to you...since you kept talking about the lm's 1/4 times. the performance difference between the Z06 and S2000 isn't as much as you would think when you actually drive them...very different cars, but try to accomplish the same thing. The S2000 has a much, much better feel through the steering wheel...another thing you can't know...since you have never driven either. If you just wanna look at numbers, and quote numbers all day...fine, but that in no way translates or the experience of driving a car. By the way the Z06 is a reliablity nightmare....if you think it's not ....you obviously haven't researched it...the burning oil thing....is only one example. My car already has 1800 miles in 3 weeks....a lot of Z06's barely see over that many miles in a year.

By the way....corvettes haven't been good for a long time. The C5's are great, the Z06 is great...mind a few issues (that will hopefully be cleared up in 2002 so maybe i will buy a 2002), but before that corvette's were hardly sports car (muscle cars maybe). Some of the very early corvettes were great...then a long time passed while corvettes IMO...sucked...the C4 was a pretty good car...ugly as hell and too expensive, but a decent car...especially the ZR1...but not until the C5 was the corvette reliable at all. An American auto manuf. doesn't even make the JD Power reliability top 10 even the top 15...i think..i can't remember exactly. Until, the corvette is closer to as reliable as my S2000 will be..I"m not buying one. Maybe the C6...check out consumer reports on how reliable the corvette is....big black dot! Porsche, which as of now..only makes sports cars, was in the top 5 on the reliability list...so don't say...sports cars will never be as reliable.

This thread is out of control. I have no issues with the corvette or the S7, but with money not being an issue...there are better options. But, for the money the C5 and the Z06 are great cars...as far as bang for buck...i would say the S2000 and Z06 are pretty much tied.

My S2000 will do 0-60 in 5.3,1/4 in 13.8-14.2, top speed of 158, and slalom at over 64-70 mph.
The Z06 will do 0-60 in 4.1, 1/4 12.4-12.8, top speed 171, and slalom at 63-66 mph.
S2000 = 32.345k
Z06 = 48k

which is a better deal?? i don't know..i saved 16k..maybe my next car. check out the resale value of the S2000 also...on autotrader or something..pretty amazing..search for used ones. The z06 has good resale too. Gas mileage is pretty close..but i do get about 32-35 mph on the freeway...the Z06 won't quite get that, but it's close enough...and the S2000 has to have premium...which sux!! :( And reliability totally goes to the S2000...even if the Z06 is more reliable then old corvettes...which it is...that's not impressive..the old ones sucked big time.... my friends dad had one..piece of crap.

Obviously you prefer american cars..i prefer the better car!! In this case the S2000 was the better car for me..after waying the options..i'm not saying it is a better car overall.

I am preparing a suitable response. But you gave up your dream!!! Oh well, both are good.

PS, that wasn't the respons I'm working on:)

lolol


conceptcars not good


60 mph form 0: 4.0 seconds for the zonda? i should say not!!

0 - 62 in 3.7 seconds... wouldn't 0 - 60 be less, not more...lol

the zonda and the S7 have same top speed, similar if not same acceleration, and exact same weight.. it comes to looks for those two

oh yeah, want better info and side by side comparisons?

go to http://zonda.hypermart.net/compare/

Originally posted by Chris
I am preparing a suitable response. But you gave up your dream!!! Oh well, both are good.

PS, that wasn't the respons I'm working on:)
a dream is not a Z06.....i have been a porsche fan for my whole life. the carrera gt is more of a dream then a Z06...a 2002 Z06 or C6 in 2004 it a possible reality....a McLaren f1 Lm...now that is a dream...

to me the Z06 was just not worth the ext 350/month over the price of the S2000...i'll just leave it at that...when it is your money...you make the right choice for you!! :)

you guys should be comparing Zonda, S7, Diablo and the carrera Gt..that would be a close comparison
Carrera Gt, 2400lb, 560hp, V10, 8 capliper brakes...no real stats..all porsche will say is under 4 0-60, over 200 mph top speed..only available in a roadster.

Originally posted by Adam
oh yeah, want better info and side by side comparisons?

go to http://zonda.hypermart.net/compare/
the F1 or the LM were not even on there...whole different league.

I know,,, that is because I finally figured out the f1 isn't comparable.. that's the new compar I guess

lol I posted some numbers that show the McLaren isn't as supirior as you say. I realise that numbers aren't the whole story but my point was to show that a 427 isn't shit or lowly.

The Z06 hasn't been out long enough to start saying how many miles they do per year.

Corvettres are an icon, a legend. You might go off saying they're shit or whatever but I'll just laugh at you.

Originally posted by Lizard King
lol I posted some numbers that show the McLaren isn't as supirior as you say. I realise that numbers aren't the whole story but my point was to show that a 427 isn't shit or lowly.

The Z06 hasn't been out long enough to start saying how many miles they do per year.

Corvettres are an icon, a legend. You might go off saying they're shit or whatever but I'll just laugh at you.

i could care less if you laugh at me...old corvettes for a long time were shit. there records as far as reliablity and any thing else other then straight line are shit. nothing you posted said the LM was in any way worse the S7...you were quoting numbers of the F1, not the LM....I never said the 427 or the S7 are lowly...jeeez...what crawled up you ass??

actually i routinely talk to people who drive Z06's on the the z06 message board. most of them by the time they have 1900 miles..which is what i have on my car, are burning 1-2 quarts per 1000miles (1 quart per 1000 miles is what chevy says is norma....that's pathetic.). A guy on there wanted to sell me his..cuz he bought an S2000...he was the one who told me to check them out!!

Look, it is obvious you have never owned a real performance car..and are just going by numbers you have read in magazines... get some money....buy a Z06 or whatever..and be happy with what you got..but stop quoting me numbers of cars you have never and will never drive. You will most likely never own an S7..nor will i own a LM, but if I had a choice ...LM all the way, carrera GT over S7...my choice...that is the way it is.... nothing wrong with the S7, but for 350k....no way....other cars i would rather have.

When I get my Z06, C6, or Porsche 911..i'm sure i will be happy with it, but for now..the S2000 is a perfect car for me...and it's a convertible...which i thought i would never want...but it's actually very cool. that is one very impressive thing about it...it can pull .95 g's on skidpad and run over 70+ in slalom...and it's a convertible!! pretty impressive....ya gotta admit...the x-frame construction...is very cool.

Yes, the S2000 is good. BUT there is no torque below 5000rpm, and even then there isn't much (153 lb-ft. Ha!) A Z06 has 385 lb-ft at way lower than that.
I agree that numbers aren't everything. A Supra gets great numbers, but at a track, it sucks. I have never driven either, though, so I can't argue with that.
And old corvettes weren't muscle cars. Tehy handled way better than that, but not as good as European cars, granted. The after 1973 to ZR1 vettes suck, IMO.
I would love either an S2000. As long as you drive it fast sometimes.
But man, I would have got the Z06 (if I had the money).

PS, whats your job? and age?

LM all the way:D

I agree. It has to be reved all the way to 9000 rpm just to preform (or atleast try to) like Honda's NSX. With the ZO6 you just point and shoot. You see an opening, floor it and your there. It's a much different story with the S2000. BUt if your happy with it so be it! :) They are fun little 4 bangers. :cool:

Originally posted by Chris
Yes, the S2000 is good. BUT there is no torque below 5000rpm, and even then there isn't much (153 lb-ft. Ha!) A Z06 has 385 lb-ft at way lower than that.
I agree that numbers aren't everything. A Supra gets great numbers, but at a track, it sucks. I have never driven either, though, so I can't argue with that.
And old corvettes weren't muscle cars. Tehy handled way better than that, but not as good as European cars, granted. The after 1973 to ZR1 vettes suck, IMO.
I would love either an S2000. As long as you drive it fast sometimes.
But man, I would have got the Z06 (if I had the money).

PS, whats your job? and age?

LM all the way:D
24, computer engineer. I drive it fast all the time. i have a bunch of twistie assed roads behind my place...crazy roads..lots of fun. The Z06 is a fast car. It is faster then my s2000..now contest. The s2000 has a much, much better steering feel. It is a lighter smaller car...this makes a huge difference...in the way it feels when you are going fast. The steering in the Z06 feels mushy in comparison. It has more body roll. This is one of the big complaints and why the slalom numbers aren't higher. My car actually has a stiffer chassis, but a smoother softer ride..if you couple this with the fact that it is a convertible....that is the amazing thing about the S2000. Compare it against the C5 convertible it costs 16k less and is has 95% of the accel and top speed performance and is much faster through twisty corners.

I never really wanted a convertible, but i really like it now. The chassis is super impressive...much more so then the Z06, Z3, Boxster or any other car I test drove (Audi *cough* TT *sucks!!* *cough :)). The guy who talked me into thest driving the S2000 was a guy who owned a Z06 for about 6 months.. i had your same reaction..until I drove it. The S2000 has low torque, but way it is geared really helps out. It does a great job magnifing the torque to the back tires. The S2000 will spin its tires like crazy, will chirp on 1-2 second shift (40 mph) and 2-3 shift (65mph)...so it is not gutless. From 45-60 and 60-90 is just about as fast as a C5..that is the amazing thing about it...drag racing..is not is forte, but high speed accel is....it is very fast. You just have to have it in the right gear..you have to know how to drive it...it takes some getting used to and some learning and skill, but that is rewarding..it is the most fun car I have ever drove..no question.

no old corvettes were good. when the first came out..top notch..then the became crap until the ZR1..pretty much..IMO anyway. I really do like the C5, but it is a reliability night mare compared to the S2000, much bigger car, bad feel in the steering wheel, and just much more expsenvie to own. Buying the S2000 was simple for me...the Z06 would have been more of a crunch...i don't need to be worrying about making the payments... I saved 350/month...it was/is worth it to me. I couldn't be happier.
For example my tires 148 fronts 168 rears..tires on the z06 were closer to 250 front and 300+ rear..that is a big difference...and that is just one example. The s2000 is a fast enough car for me right now..and for the money...you can't beat it.

PS: In japan they sell a kit of the S2000, 450 HP at the wheels, turbo system. 0-60 est. 3.75 secs!! in a convertible!! :) maybe that will be the next purchase...hehehe..

PSS: best shifter in any car made...23 mm throws..nothing on the road like it... if you ever get a chance...sit in one..and play with the gear box...then try shifting any other car on the planet...you will hate all other 6-speeds....this is no joke..try it.

Originally posted by Racer 20
I agree. It has to be reved all the way to 9000 rpm just to preform (or atleast try to) like Honda's NSX. With the ZO6 you just point and shoot. You see an opening, floor it and your there. It's a much different story with the S2000. BUt if your happy with it so be it! :) They are fun little 4 bangers. :cool:



try to perform...actually at speed, like say 40-65...the S2000 is as fast or faster then the normal c5. If you watch it go from 0-60...it has issues at the start...you wanna now how you launch a S2000?
7krpm, drop the clutch..wheel spin to 9k, all the way through first, then second gear, more wheel spin, finally to 60. About 1- 1.5 secs of that 0-60 run is wheel spin and very little traction....so you figure out how fast it is if it is running low 5's 0-60.

The car actually has about 85% of it's torque at 4k rpms, that means is has about 60% of it's rpm range to run in with at least 80% of the available torque. This means the HP curve is virtually linear. HP = torque *(rpm/5250) so if the torque is virtually flat, the HP is completely linear....and it is all the way to 9k. so that is a great torque vs HP curve...almost perfect.

The Z06 does not point and shoot like the S2000. true, it accel hard in any gear...or feels like it does, cuz they engine sounds loud, but the steering makes it feel very bad when pointing and shooting. the s2000 makes you learn how to drive..including shifting down, matching revs and heel toe downshifting. It is a true drivers car with much much better feel then the Z06....I should know..i've driven both.....have you? or are you just quoting a magazine to me??

Also, my friend owns a NSX and you couldn't be more wrong about it also....it is very torquey and drives much more like a corvette in terms of engine response then you give it credit for...but again..i'm guessing you have never driven one.

so you drive it in the high rpm range? so what?? that is the way it is made to be driven...F1 cars routinely get to 15k rpms...so what? that is how you get high HP out of small engines?? i dont' see your point. It is a different way to come at the same problem of going faster. As long as the time you have at most of your torque and HP is the same (about 5k rpm's for the S2000 4k-9k about 80% of available torque at 4k). You know that europe and other foreign countries think it so funny how we all drive heavy ass monster engine cars. You all need to leave the corvette alone and go drive a small, light, high revving car...you will never go back. I wish the elise would come here.

Why do you think the best handling cars in the world have always been made in europe, they have tight, small twisty roads. our love lust with large displacement, SUV's, trucks and cars is very lame. The S2000 is a shot by japan at the small, light, quick, awesome handling genre that is dominated by europe. There are about 30 small auto manufactures in europe that make light, small, fast cars ...at least 200hp per ton..i would love to see caterham's, s2000s, the elise and others on the road instead of huge ugly assed, bad handling american boats, SUV's and trucks. most of the vehicles are not even road worthy. over 70% of all cars in america are sold as autos!!! so who do you think really understands what makes a fun driveable car more.... americans or europeans.... just watch a nascar race sometime...and then watch a F1 race....it's pathetic.

Several things.NASCAR madates that the cars be that way.
F1 engines go to 19000(!) rpm.
For your S2000, Comptech has a blower for it. With 6psi, it adds 100 hp. It costs $4895. I would get it. Another (40,50?) pounds, and 100 hp, it is well worth it. Nothing else you can do can really make it better, it is so good already.
I have sat in the S2000. Yes, I liked the shifter alot. Never been in a C5 vette. Yes, I am quoting magazines. And my tastes are shifting from big cars to small, cool ones.
I love teh vette though. It is supposed to belie its size, and is a world class car. It is mega-fast, and although not as good handling as the S2000. On some tracks, the Honda would win, on others, a vette.
I didn't know the torque curve was flat, that is good. But it still lacks torque, but it is apparently really fun when you drive it right (like you apparantly do:D ).

Oh, I also like computers, and it is my biggest career choice right now (I plan to be the next Bill GAtes, the worlds first gazillionaire!)

Originally posted by Chris
Several things.NASCAR madates that the cars be that way.
F1 engines go to 19000(!) rpm.
For your S2000, Comptech has a blower for it. With 6psi, it adds 100 hp. It costs $4895. I would get it. Another (40,50?) pounds, and 100 hp, it is well worth it. Nothing else you can do can really make it better, it is so good already.
I have sat in the S2000. Yes, I liked the shifter alot. Never been in a C5 vette. Yes, I am quoting magazines. And my tastes are shifting from big cars to small, cool ones.
I love teh vette though. It is supposed to belie its size, and is a world class car. It is mega-fast, and although not as good handling as the S2000. On some tracks, the Honda would win, on others, a vette.
I didn't know the torque curve was flat, that is good. But it still lacks torque, but it is apparently really fun when you drive it right (like you apparantly do:D ).

Oh, I also like computers, and it is my biggest career choice right now (I plan to be the next Bill GAtes, the worlds first gazillionaire!)

I know Nascar mandates the cars be like that.... that was my point. American's fav. racing are cars like that and oval tracks. While, the rest of the world prefers F1 on twisty road courses...through actual city streets...It just kinda gives a good view of many american's take...on what a car should be like.

15k rpm's 19k rpm...alright...i was just saying....fast!! :)
yeah the comptech one...is kinda a pain. it has some issues. i think i'm gonna wait. the s2000 can still out drive me in the stock form. the car is really well balanced. i would hate to ruin the way it drives by just slapping in more HP. The comptech blower doesn't really work where the S2000 needs the HP. It doesn't turn on till vtec, so it gives no low end torque which is what the S2000 needs more of. I wish Jackson racing would come out with one...they make better products...IMO. Also, the next itteration of the comptech one is supposed to go up to 450HP....so maybe that one will be good!! :) That is around 10PSI, but in an engine that is already running 11:1 compression...heheh :)

The c5 and the Z06 are both gonna beat the S2000 on most tracks...pretty much the auto-x is where the s2000 is gonna take a vette. The vette has great limits, just doesnt' communicate them well.

Good luck with the Gazillionaire thing...if you make it.....buy me a LM!!! :)

anyone checked out the redesign for the NSX in 2003? not the one that automobile mag showed, but the 350 HP, mid-engine, v8 version?? might break under the 60k mark. what i wouldn't give for a 450HP 2003 mid-engine Z06...that will never happen. :(

Originally posted by Z06Lover
what i wouldn't give for a 450HP 2003 mid-engine Z06...that will never happen. :(

I'm glad of that. I wouldn't want to see the Vette changed so much as to alter the whole engine placement. Gearbox in the rear was a good move and has resulted in 50/50 distribution, or near enough.

Don't get me started on F1, that it the most boring form of motorsport.

You say America's facination with large displacement engines is lame. Even Europeans know that for power large displacement is the way to fo. Hence supercars such as the McLaren F1 and Diablo having large displacement engines.

American V8s are often lighter, and mostly smaller than turbo engines from Japan.

I wouldnt want 10psi in with an 11:1 compression. BOOM! hehe.
Just get the blower, it will be much faster.
And tehy tried to boost low-end power, and failed, so they went for peak performance.

I agree, American cars handle well, but dont fell very good.

Originally posted by Chris
I wouldnt want 10psi in with an 11:1 compression. BOOM! hehe.
Just get the blower, it will be much faster.
And tehy tried to boost low-end power, and failed, so they went for peak performance.

I agree, American cars handle well, but dont fell very good.
it is still pretty fast for me...like i said...as of now..i can still out drive me....i need to get it on a track and learn its limits better...then maybe get a blower.

a company in japan sells a kit with over 600+HP for the S2000. it is a turbo kit, intake, exhaust, headers, and that's about it..no engine reinforcements...of course you would need new clutch and probably a gear box also. the engine is reinforced with carbon fiber so it is pretty stout..all moving parts are forged...anyway, that kind of performance and spending are a ways off...i'll let you know what i do...and how it turns out!! :)

I am an accekeration junkie. But then, currently I want a mini, or a Fiat 500, or a Triumph Spitfire Mk. III. Not exactly speed freak cars. I want them because they are FUN FUN FUN!
Which is what I want in a car, and what you seem to want too, which is good.

But I would get the blower fairly soon, and nothing incredible, you don't want to blow the engine with too much power. And 600hp from 2 liters is EXTEREME!!! Especially since you drive alot. From what I know, I would stick with Comptech. Bu tI'm not you.

Yes, please keep us posted. We will envy you for whatever you get. And with only 5 LM's, I will have to get you a plaine-jane F1. Sorry:rolleyes:

:D

Shoulda been ACCLERATION

shoulda been ACCELERATION

glad I didn't get involved in this one. Mac is my choice...

Be happy you didn't get involved. Once you get into it, you cant get out. Kinda like the mob....

i'm glad i just registered or else i might be dead. i'm going have to agree with whoever was for the F1 LM. nothing can beat that, on a course at least. hey ZO6 Lover, you remind sooo much of my brother. he's 24, a computer software something( he tried to explain it, but my fam and i were clueless), and he has an E30 325is and an E36 M3. both sweeet cars, but i definitely wouldnt mind getting a ride in an S2000!! :) what color is your S2000?

Originally posted by hermunn123
i'm glad i just registered or else i might be dead. i'm going have to agree with whoever was for the F1 LM. nothing can beat that, on a course at least. hey ZO6 Lover, you remind sooo much of my brother. he's 24, a computer software something( he tried to explain it, but my fam and i were clueless), and he has an E30 325is and an E36 M3. both sweeet cars, but i definitely wouldnt mind getting a ride in an S2000!! :) what color is your S2000?

i got a pict in my sig......if you wanna check it out!

thats a SWEET car. i know you dont care, but dont listen to the people who think you're dumb for not getting a ZO6