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Synthetic VS. conventional Oil


red94fourdoor
10-19-2005, 01:14 PM
I have a 1994 s-10 Blazer with a Vortec 4.3, auto, 4x4 and it runs great. It has 190,000 Miles on the clock. I was wondering if switching to synthetic oil is a good Idea or a bad Idea for a truck with so many miles on the motor already. Should I stick to the Valvoline max life oil I use already or switch to Mobil 1 5-30w synthetic? I am trying to keep this truck going as long as I can.

DINO55
10-19-2005, 02:27 PM
My friend , you just answered your own question at the end of your post... Make the switch to Mobil 1 and don't ever use fram oil filters..

switch to Mobil 1 5-30w synthetic? I am trying to keep this truck going as long as I can.

red94fourdoor
10-19-2005, 02:40 PM
Whats wrong with FRAM oil filters?

blazes9395
10-19-2005, 03:07 PM
I would go with synthetic all the way. I use Mobil1 10W30 in both my trucks, 95 Jimmy, and 93 Blazer. Also, don't use the regular frams, they have been shown to be constructed poorly when compared to other filters.

BlazerLT
10-19-2005, 03:10 PM
Whats wrong with FRAM oil filters?

Do a search and you will see, their construction is based on carbboard encaps that don't seal properly and the anti-drainback valve will allow all the oil in the top of your engine to drain into the pan and you will get dry startup knock.

There are better filters for the same money like a WIX, AC Delco, Purolator etc....

Yes, go to 5w30 synthetic but only if you don't have any leaks at all in your engine.

BlazerBoyLT98
10-19-2005, 03:13 PM
All Fram oil filters are very poorly made, except for the X2 model which allows you to change the oil every 7500 miles. I would use Napa Gold, Wix, Ac Delco. Don't get to nervous if when you switch to synthetic you leak some oil. I leaked the first 2 oil changes with synthetic a total of maybe a quart. What happens is there are sludge build ups by parts of the gasket which is not allowing any oil to get to certain parts of the gasket, so the gasket gets thin and possible brittle. Now the synthetic especially mobil 1 will cleab your engine very nicely and remove the sludge away from the thin and possibly brittle gasket, when that happens the oil will leak for a short time until the gasket which is now getting oil reswells. Mobil 1 does an incredible job cleaning your engine. My first 2 oil changes came out completely black and nasty. Now the oil I have in there, which has been in there for like 5K miles now is still like honey colored. So don't be too alarmed if some oil leaks and possibly some oil is burned at first. Your engine will thank you, especially over the winter when the truck starts nice and easy and warms up so much faster! Good luck bro let us know how you make out!

red94fourdoor
10-19-2005, 03:17 PM
5-30 is the reccomended grade for the 4.3 are there any advantages of running a heavier oil say 20-50W. I know it has to do with temperature too. I live in NJ so it won't get to -10F or anthing like that

red94fourdoor
10-19-2005, 03:19 PM
Oh yeah I have no leaks as of now. The previous owner had it serviced by the dealer only. It has a ac delco battery and oil filter when I bought it.

BlazerLT
10-19-2005, 03:22 PM
5-30 is the reccomended grade for the 4.3 are there any advantages of running a heavier oil say 20-50W. I know it has to do with temperature too. I live in NJ so it won't get to -10F or anthing like that

No advantages at all.

Stick to 5w30 for anywhere in the US.

blazes9395
10-19-2005, 03:26 PM
I wouldn't run 20-50...its to heavy of an oil for these engine...especially at start-up. The reason I run 10-30 and not 5-30 is because I do a lot of highway driving, and I feel it helps protect the engine a little better. Also, when I was using 5-30 I developed a leak at the pan gasket on my 95, I switched over to 10-30 because it is reccomended by Mobil for higher milage vehicles, not only did the leak stop(has been about 8 months now), but I noticed better oil pressure in stop and go traffic.

blazee
10-19-2005, 03:35 PM
I wouldn't run 20-50...its to heavy of an oil for these engine...especially at start-up. The reason I run 10-30 and not 5-30 is because I do a lot of highway driving, and I feel it helps protect the engine a little better. Also, when I was using 5-30 I developed a leak at the pan gasket on my 95, I switched over to 10-30 because it is reccomended by Mobil for higher milage vehicles, not only did the leak stop(has been about 8 months now), but I noticed better oil pressure in stop and go traffic.

I run Mobil1 10w30 in mine, too. I used 5w30 up until 100,000 and then switched to 10w30, because Mobil1 recommends 5w30 for newer cars and 10w30 for higher mileage cars.

red94fourdoor
10-19-2005, 03:37 PM
I guess I'd run 10-30W I have 190,000mi on the truck now

blazes9395
10-19-2005, 03:42 PM
I guess I'd run 10-30W I have 190,000mi on the truck now

I would say 10-30 is your best bet.

red94fourdoor
10-19-2005, 03:46 PM
Thanks a lot guys I'll pick that up and a filter from NAPA. I remember a pic showing all the points to lube on the front end but I can't find it anymore can someone link it for me?

BlazerLT
10-19-2005, 03:56 PM
Thanks a lot guys I'll pick that up and a filter from NAPA. I remember a pic showing all the points to lube on the front end but I can't find it anymore can someone link it for me?

Run 5w30 in your engine.

The 10 in 10w30 mean nothing when the engine is at operating temperature.

Whether you have 10w30 or 5w30, they are both 30 weight at operating temperature. The only thing is the 5w30 is thinner when cold which means it will flow faster and protect your engine more on startup.

Stick to the 5w30, it will help your startups in the cold better.

red94fourdoor
10-19-2005, 04:12 PM
I remember a pic showing the 11 points to lube on the front end but I can't find it anymore can someone link it for me?

blazee
10-19-2005, 04:17 PM
I remember a pic showing the 11 points to lube on the front end but I can't find it anymore can someone link it for me?
http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=344505&highlight=grease+zerks

red94fourdoor
10-19-2005, 08:41 PM
Thanks everyone

BlazerLT
10-19-2005, 08:46 PM
Thanks everyone

No problem, and remember, 5w30 for your truck.

10w30 is no different other than it is thicker at cold startup which means it won't pump quite as fast.

It is not thicker at operating temperature like others have said. They are both 30 weight which is denoted by the w30 and the end.

Blutarski
10-19-2005, 08:52 PM
If you're leaking, even a little bit, don't bother, you'll be wasting your money. Fram... HA, it's been cpvered. Go with AMSOIL, it's the ONLY pure synthetic out there. Not to mention that with the thinner synthetic oils you should see an increase in mileage. It also allows a longer drain interval and their filters are more effective, filtering out smaller particles than the others.

Turbocpe
10-19-2005, 09:12 PM
I normally follow the manual, but I've heard from a good source (to me) that the pour and pumping points between Mobil1's 10w and 5w are minimal.

Rough figures, Mobil 1 10W30 has a pour point of about -72°F, and pumping point of -48°F. Mobil 1 5W30 has a pour point of about -76°F and a pumping point just below 10W30.

Please note that those figures above may not be 100% correct.

BlazerLT
10-19-2005, 10:07 PM
If you're leaking, even a little bit, don't bother, you'll be wasting your money. Fram... HA, it's been cpvered. Go with AMSOIL, it's the ONLY pure synthetic out there. Not to mention that with the thinner synthetic oils you should see an increase in mileage. It also allows a longer drain interval and their filters are more effective, filtering out smaller particles than the others.

Actually, no, it is not the only pure synthetic out there. There are others with PAO true synthetic basestocks like:

Mobil 1
Redline
Esso XD-3 Synthetic (Canada) CHEAPPP!

Any other these three will do the same job.

BlazerLT
10-19-2005, 10:22 PM
I normally follow the manual, but I've heard from a good source (to me) that the pour and pumping points between Mobil1's 10w and 5w are minimal.

Rough figures, Mobil 1 10W30 has a pour point of about -72°F, and pumping point of -48°F. Mobil 1 5W30 has a pour point of about -76°F and a pumping point just below 10W30.

Please note that those figures above may not be 100% correct.

Actually the por points are the same which is -49.

But, you have to look at other thing, the Viscosity numbers at 100c (operating temp) are exactly the same at 10.0.

The thing is, at 40c, the 10w30 is 62 and the 5w30 is 56. This trend continues as the oil gets colder. So at 0c or 32f you get the following:

Mobil 1 5w30: 452.5
Mobil 1 10w30: 595.3

Now you can see at 0c the 5w30 is actually quite a lot thinner than the 10w30 and you can see why I recommend the 5w30 in these engines. 80-90% of engine damage is at startup and the faster you get you oil flowing the less startup wear you will get.

This is due to the viscosity additive which are the difference between the two.

bh04
10-20-2005, 01:30 AM
I have 71k miles on my cavalier. What would synthetic oil to do my car? I should probbaly post this in my cavalier forums. But you Blazer folk are really knowledgeable and i'm sure have talked about this more than once. It seems like in the Cav forums, all the noobs wanna talk about is going faster and askign the same questions like about rims and body kits and intakes. I know this because that's what I did when I first started posting.

But oil would you reccommend in a 4 cyl engine? I drive it A LOT! Well kinda. 3k miles in about 2 months. I am sometimes hard on it and like the sound of my fart can....i mean exhuast. So at times I will give it some gas :D

BlazerLT
10-20-2005, 02:55 AM
I have 71k miles on my cavalier. What would synthetic oil to do my car? I should probbaly post this in my cavalier forums. But you Blazer folk are really knowledgeable and i'm sure have talked about this more than once. It seems like in the Cav forums, all the noobs wanna talk about is going faster and askign the same questions like about rims and body kits and intakes. I know this because that's what I did when I first started posting.

But oil would you reccommend in a 4 cyl engine? I drive it A LOT! Well kinda. 3k miles in about 2 months. I am sometimes hard on it and like the sound of my fart can....i mean exhuast. So at times I will give it some gas :D

I would be solving your fuel economy problem before worrying about the oil.

wolfox
10-20-2005, 10:05 AM
If you can *find* the stuff, German made Castrol 0w-30 runs like god's own nectar in these engines. Mobil-1 10w-30 is a good backup/secondary oil only because it is readily available and relatively inexpensive to other "order as you need" oils like some other member mentioned previously. I say 10w-30 in Mobil-1 because it will not get consumed like 5w-30 will. Mobil-1's 5w-30 is more like a 20 weight oil when it warms up and starts to either flash-burn off or slip by oil retention rings to disappear down the exhaust pipe. Either Mobil-1 formulation however *will* clean these engines good. If you are brave, and do not care to loose the measly 2-3 MPG, try Mobil 1 Truck and SUV formulation badged "Extended performance" on the bottle. I got some running in a 3.5 litre V-6 Dodge motor and it's smooth as silk and cleaning the crap out quickly. It too will be converted like the Blazer to 0w-30 Castrol when it's clean with an X-2 Fram filter. X-2 Frams are about the only Fram filter I would pay money for, and those made by Wix/NAPA Gold. They are worth the can they are put into. AC/Delco lately is putting out some questionable filters, the last one I picked up for the Blazer felt really *light* in the box. I opened it up to find some plastic/nylon center tube *THING* with a zillion holes around the lip of the base. Apparently, some weird re-design went on at Champion labs recently that suppies GM with filters and the OEM part's no longer up to snuff in my opinion. It is said that there is some new by-pass in the filter, but that makes no sense - we already HAVE one on the engine block. So I am sticking with straight up WIX/NAPA Gold or Fram X2 for the moment and running 0w-30 pure synthetic in the truck. Allegedly, the oil I chose could possibly run a whole year or at least 15K miles in an American made engine block - Porsche treats the oil I picked up as a "Lifetime" fill. Of course, their crankcases hold over 16 liters of the stuff, so it's not going to wear as fast as a 4.5 quart sump...but anyway, Porsche says to change their oil and filter at 125,000 miles on the formulation I am using. BMW says go at least 12K on it, etc. etc. Too bad there is no official word from GM on how the stuff should last in their engines, but it totally kills the Corvette specs in requirements. And unlike Amsoil, Mobil-1, etc...

It's a pure synthetic. No additive pack. No tricks. No nothing. 100% good, slippery, green colored, candy-smelling stuff. After a hot run down the highway and I come to a halt at a light, it smells like I drove through a donut factory! :D :lol2:

bh04
10-20-2005, 02:22 PM
I would be solving your fuel economy problem before worrying about the oil.

I'm trying. I'm not due for another oil change for about 2k miles.

BlazerLT
10-20-2005, 04:39 PM
If you can *find* the stuff, German made Castrol 0w-30 runs like god's own nectar in these engines. Mobil-1 10w-30 is a good backup/secondary oil only because it is readily available and relatively inexpensive to other "order as you need" oils like some other member mentioned previously.

Green colored German Castrol is no longer available. It is still made in Germany, but the additive pack is different and weaker and is not considered any better than the rest. 2005 gold colored formulation is different than the 2004 and older green colored variety.

I say 10w-30 in Mobil-1 because it will not get consumed like 5w-30 will. Mobil-1's 5w-30 is more like a 20 weight oil when it warms up and starts to either flash-burn off or slip by oil retention rings to disappear down the exhaust pipe. Either Mobil-1 formulation however *will* clean these engines good. If you are brave, and do not care to loose the measly 2-3 MPG, try Mobil 1 Truck and SUV formulation badged "Extended performance" on the bottle.

No, neither of them are 20 weights, they are both middle 30 weights. Both 10w30 and 5w30 are both 10.0cst at 100c so saying one will burn off more than the other is wrong.

Secondly, Mobil1 doesn't burn off unless your engine is completely worn out so I really don't know where you are getting your information from.

The new Mobil 1 Extended Performance will NOT lower you economy 2-3mpg. IT has a cst of 10.25 at 100c which won't affect anyone's fuel economy. Also, it is not a rebadged truck and SUV formulation.

What proof, check here:

http://www.mobil.com/USA-English/Lubes/PDS/GLXXENPVLMOMobil_1_Extended_Performance.asp

Honestly, where are you getting you infomation from?

I got some running in a 3.5 litre V-6 Dodge motor and it's smooth as silk and cleaning the crap out quickly. It too will be converted like the Blazer to 0w-30 Castrol when it's clean with an X-2 Fram filter. X-2 Frams are about the only Fram filter I would pay money for, and those made by Wix/NAPA Gold. They are worth the can they are put into.

This is true, I agree with you.

AC/Delco lately is putting out some questionable filters, the last one I picked up for the Blazer felt really *light* in the box. I opened it up to find some plastic/nylon center tube *THING* with a zillion holes around the lip of the base. Apparently, some weird re-design went on at Champion labs recently that suppies GM with filters and the OEM part's no longer up to snuff in my opinion.

These are Champion E-cores which are a different design. They are not worse, they actually will flow and filter better than the conventional design. Just because it is different doesn't mean it is worse.

It is said that there is some new by-pass in the filter, but that makes no sense - we already HAVE one on the engine block. So I am sticking with straight up WIX/NAPA Gold or Fram X2 for the moment and running 0w-30 pure synthetic in the truck. Allegedly, the oil I chose could possibly run a whole year or at least 15K miles in an American made engine block - Porsche treats the oil I picked up as a "Lifetime" fill. Of course, their crankcases hold over 16 liters of the stuff, so it's not going to wear as fast as a 4.5 quart sump...but anyway, Porsche says to change their oil and filter at 125,000 miles on the formulation I am using. BMW says go at least 12K on it, etc. etc. Too bad there is no official word from GM on how the stuff should last in their engines, but it totally kills the Corvette specs in requirements. And unlike Amsoil, Mobil-1, etc...

It's a pure synthetic. No additive pack. No tricks. No nothing. 100% good, slippery, green colored, candy-smelling stuff. After a hot run down the highway and I come to a halt at a light, it smells like I drove through a donut factory! :D :lol2:

Actually, it is not a completely pure synthetic like Mobil1, it is a mixture of synthetic esters and conventioanl basestocks whereas the Mobil1 is completely 100% PAO synthetic basestock.

All oils havge additive packs and I think you should do a little more research. All oils have a basestock which additives are added to change properties and viscosity numbers and protection factors.

Also again, the green german castrol is NO MORE. It is not being made anymore and all that is being sold now is the left over stock which hasn't been changed over to the gold, rank smelling 2005 formulation with the weaker additive pack.

Wolfox, I completely respect you but you need to do one helluva lot more research before you claim some of the things you said. Some were right but most were wrong and needed to be corrected.

PM me , you know I mean nothing but to get you the right information.

blazee
10-20-2005, 05:00 PM
Yes, go to 5w30 synthetic but only if you don't have any leaks at all in your engine.


Stick to 5w30 for anywhere in the US.

Run 5w30 in your engine.



Stick to the 5w30, it will help your startups in the cold better.

No problem, and remember, 5w30 for your truck.


I recommend the 5w30 in these engines. .

Your opinion has been noted. There is no need to keep repeating it.

BlazerLT
10-20-2005, 05:11 PM
Your opinion has been noted. There is no need to keep repeating it.

Thanks for your post Blazee. :) I see you are trying to add to this intelligent discussion about certian oils and properties.

My posts on not only on 5w30 so please don't reduce my posts to only on that. Thanks.

My posts are about correcting wrong information being spread about synthetics, different types of manufacturers oil and certain basestock properties.

I am not being mean in any way so please, don't ruin this awesome thread.

To Wolfox, please understand everything I said was nothing towards you, I just want to let you know about some of the properties of the oil and oil type you are talking about.

Wolfox, if you have a concern, please feel free to PM and I can talk to you about it. :)

blazee
10-20-2005, 05:39 PM
EDIT: I see that you changed your reply while I was typing mine. I don't feel like changing it, so my reply is to your original message.

Thanks for your post Blazee. :)

You're welcome. :smile:

My posts on not only on 5w30 so please don't reduce my posts to only on that. Thanks.

My posts are about correcting wrong information being spread about synthetics, different types of manufacturers oil and certain basestock properties.

If you want me to show you where where my opinion, is fact, just say so and I will show you. But stating my information is opinion without facts to prove me wrong is again, your opinion.

The majority of your posts have been short responses stating to use 5w30. It seems that most of us prefer 10w30, that is our opinion. You prefer 5w30 and 0w30, that is your opinion. I was simply stating that your opinion has been noticed and doesn't need to be repeated everytime that someone posts their own opinion. Everyone here is welcome to express their opinions freely and shouldn't have someone else's opinion crammed down their throats.

I am not slamming anyone is this thread nor am I being mean in any way so please, if you are not going to add to this intelligent debate between fellow forum members, please obstain from hitting the reply button.
I have already added to this thread, and am obeying the forum rules by not spamming the thread with my views repeatedly.


To Wolfox, please understand everything I said was nothing towards you, I just want to let you know about some of the properties of the oil and oil type you are talking about.

If you have a conern, please feel free to PM and I can talk to you about it. :)

That is between you and wolfox, but I just want to state that I have the utmost respect for wolfox and his knowledge on many subjects.

BlazerLT
10-20-2005, 05:57 PM
You're welcome. :smile:

The majority of your posts have been short responses stating to use 5w30. It seems that most of us prefer 10w30, that is our opinion. You prefer 5w30 and 0w30, that is your opinion. I was simply stating that your opinion has been noticed and doesn't need to be repeated everytime that someone posts their own opinion. Everyone here is welcome to express their opinions freely and shouldn't have someone else's opinion crammed down their throats.

I have already added to this thread, and am obeying the forum rules by not spamming the thread with my views repeatedly.

That is between you and wolfox, but I just want to state that I have the utmost respect for wolfox and his knowledge on many subjects.

Hey thanks for calling me a spammer and a saying I cram things down people's throats. That is flaming me for no given reason and I hope you will stop this. I am not coming after you and insulting your posts so please stop ruining this great thread with your negative intentions.

I ahve the greatest of respect for Wolfox and offered some information for his education, whether or not you agree with me is your opinion but please stop ruining this thread.

I am not a spammer, and I know lots of members here will take offense to that when this "spamming" helps them.

wolfox
10-20-2005, 08:14 PM
Yipes...wow, I feel like I stepped in it deep. I guess clarification is in order on a few points. My point of view is derived from many years of playing with the stuff and keeping an eye out for changes, so here goes:

I recommend 10w-30 Mobil-1 because of the statement where I said that it is less volatile than the 5w-30. However, BlazerLT mildly pointed out that the "Flash-burn" properties are minimal/nonexistant and the CST is indeed similar at a given, mean temperature. (Typically 100 C.) What happens though as 5w-30 "ages" through use, it shears slightly. Almost every oil shears through use, it's a given fact. However, the "stuff" that makes up the additive pack in the 5w-30 constitues MORE of the volume of oil by the quart. As this is used up and the oil shears back (Within 3000 miles or so of use) it becomes much lighter, and midway through its lifecycle, acts more like a medium 20 weight oil. This "lightweight" oil is no less protective or "good", it merely is consumed easier because of it's tendency to just go away faster than a 10w-30 formulation which uses less additives and improvers to make up the total volume of the oil. I cannot site *specific* articles or data for you, but this is something I have been reading over and over again - but mostly between people that dicker over very finite points. In no way does either oil become "superior" over the other in this case under normal use. Our engines in these trucks are low-revving, tourquey blocks with relatively sedate power to the cubic inch so either WILL dole out at least 7-10K miles *easily* in these engines. People in *HOT* climates that do more highway driving than others may see the sump filled with 5w-30 drop in level a little bit, where it is negligable/nonexistant in the 10w-30 formulation.

Mobil-1 Truck & SUV is a formulation *based* loosely on Mobil's Delvac-1 HDEO diesel synthetic. Loosely I say only because it got a new additive pack and reformulated away from "mixed fleet" and put into truck application where light-duty, off-roaders and enthusiasts would benefit the most where high load, low RPM puts some serious bottom end stress on the blocks. This stuff is polar and sticks like GLUE on bearings and bears a very fortified additive pack that allows for better barrier lubrication where the hydrodynamic, fluid lubrication fails when the oil's squeezed out of crank, rocker, and wrist bearings under load. There is nothing better if you prefer to climb rocks all afternoon and not have to care about sludging your oil or spinning out bearings. The only reason why I stated that there is a minuscule drop in gas mileage is because in order to get an API "Starburst" or "Donut" on the label, the oil must provide a certain amount of improvement in gas mileage. This oil may not have been submitted for all I know, for CAFE or API certification and that may be the real reason for the lack of that logo for that matter. Honestly? I have not seen it affect the mileage in the Dodge 3500 V-6 motor *much*. If anything, it's up a few MPG. It's not my daily driver, but my roomate's.

And back to the German Castrol...

Indeed, it is not made anymore, so the supply that I have is what I have managed to collect. I have enough for 9 more years, easily - I might even photograph my closet that's utterly stacked to the gills with it. Good luck finding it, but when you do, this is awesome stuff. It's a bit on the heavy side for a 30 weight, almost a 40 weight. However, there is much contention over just what exactly is in the stuff. I am tempted to perform an FTIR analysis of it (only because I have access to the equipment and supplies to make it run) to really find out once and for all, just what is in the stuff. Elsewhere, in another, entirely different forum it has been the subject of study and ridicule, as well as praise for quite some time. The studies that have been released on it, and what people can get away with hinting at so they are not slammed for "reverse engineering proprietary information"; points to a very unique substance indeed.

The newer "gold" stuff has indeed gone back to hydrocracked Group-III blend with a good Group-IV/V additive pack and PAO base, making it a blend more than anything else. A damn FINE blend, though lacking the very strong characteristics of the good old green. This may be where the subject of "additive pack" came up in relation to German Castrol. However...

There is none of this mixing, matching blending or anything going on with the 3 year run/stock of the "green" Castrol. It's straight up, pure, built by hand molecules. No additive pack in the conventional sense, merely stuff to counter oxidation/acidifying as it is a little hydroscopic in nature. Okay, okay, so that does legally define additive pack as this is what an additive pack does, but it is the very inherent, purpose-built design of the green formulation that makes it so strong overall with relatively little dinking about with traditional additive pack chemistry. Thus, it is extremely stable, and simply, does not sheer. Not one iota. It just keeps going until one of two things happens: The mild additive pack that makes it suspend and "eat" crud, like carbon particles, neutralize acids, absorb water to be evaporated, etc - over time just quits working. This oil will begin to thicken just slightly at that point. It merely gets "dirty". If your engine is in good shape, not dumping fuel, yaddayaddayadda - this oil will run conceivably forever in an automotive sense. The second instance is where the oil itself, not it's additive pack chemistry, can no longer suspend microscopic particles. If we could have "super" filtration on our trucks, this oil can be used damn near forever. The best analogy would be throwing really fine dust into water until it turns thick, mudlike. If you were to filter this mud, say through a reverse osmosis filter, you would get pure, drinkable water. We do not have this degree of filtration, so - it gets black and thick. No surprise there. I just can DO this suspending job based on it's base-stock oil formulation ALONE much better than anything else that I have seen that had initially attracted me to it.

Where another oil may sludge up when it shears back, then consumes it's additive pack under extreme conditions, the "Green stuff" will still look and test nearly brand new as if it were freshly poured from the bottle. Too much of a good thing I suppose, for it was withdrawn and then reformulated back to it's former golden state, and far, far stinkier too. :P If you can find the green, go for it!

You're going to find that things get a little heated and go blow for blow on just a few topics: Politics, handguns - and motor oil. Nothing gets a fellow enthusiast's blood boiling faster than ANY of those topics. I present my take on this subject material as merely informed, self-made opinion and as such will happily play along as you all present yours. I hope we can keep it friendly and where needed - agree to disagree. Carry on folks, and have FUN! :iceslolan

BlazerLT
10-20-2005, 10:41 PM
Yipes...wow, I feel like I stepped in it deep. I guess clarification is in order on a few points. My point of view is derived from many years of playing with the stuff and keeping an eye out for changes, so here goes:

Wicked, I LOVE educated oil discussion. Let's have a learning experience without any negative feelings and let's have fun with this. :D

I recommend 10w-30 Mobil-1 because of the statement where I said that it is less volatile than the 5w-30. However, BlazerLT mildly pointed out that the "Flash-burn" properties are minimal/nonexistant and the CST is indeed similar at a given, mean temperature. (Typically 100 C.) What happens though as 5w-30 "ages" through use, it shears slightly. Almost every oil shears through use, it's a given fact. However, the "stuff" that makes up the additive pack in the 5w-30 constitues MORE of the volume of oil by the quart. As this is used up and the oil shears back (Within 3000 miles or so of use) it becomes much lighter, and midway through its lifecycle, acts more like a medium 20 weight oil. This "lightweight" oil is no less protective or "good", it merely is consumed easier because of it's tendency to just go away faster than a 10w-30 formulation which uses less additives and improvers to make up the total volume of the oil. I cannot site *specific* articles or data for you, but this is something I have been reading over and over again - but mostly between people that dicker over very finite points. In no way does either oil become "superior" over the other in this case under normal use. Our engines in these trucks are low-revving, tourquey blocks with relatively sedate power to the cubic inch so either WILL dole out at least 7-10K miles *easily* in these engines. People in *HOT* climates that do more highway driving than others may see the sump filled with 5w-30 drop in level a little bit, where it is negligable/nonexistant in the 10w-30 formulation.

I agree with you on most points, but the 5w30 does not shear down to a 20 weight anymore than the 10w30 does. The difference in pour point surpressors is actually very little. With both at 10cst at operating temperature, they both will shear very closely to one another but NEVER will go into the 20 weight unless it has been contaminated with fuel or if the PCV system is not functioning properly.

As to the southern climates, you are perfectly correct that 10w30 will be perfectly fine at all time of the year due to the lack of severe temperature fluctuations like in the northern sates and Canada that drop below 32f (0c) in the fall, winter, and spring. My point is just that in the more northern climates like the people here are from, you might as well get the oil that has the fastest pumping rate at an lower temperature. That in most cases will be 0w30 or 5w30 (I said 5w30 again, watch, someone might want to slap my hand and shake you finger at me. :lol:)

It is just about oil that will cover people for the whole year. The first number is Xw30 is just a cold flow number which realistically has zero units. The lower the number, the better it will flow at lower temperatures. This is often mistaken by lots of people (not you Wolfox), and they think the the bigger the first number means it is a thicker oil at operating temperature which won't happen. I think we should get an oil information thread going to dispell myths about the oil numbers for everyone including the new guys coming in. What are your thoughts?

Mobil-1 Truck & SUV is a formulation *based* loosely on Mobil's Delvac-1 HDEO diesel synthetic. Loosely I say only because it got a new additive pack and reformulated away from "mixed fleet" and put into truck application where light-duty, off-roaders and enthusiasts would benefit the most where high load, low RPM puts some serious bottom end stress on the blocks. This stuff is polar and sticks like GLUE on bearings and bears a very fortified additive pack that allows for better barrier lubrication where the hydrodynamic, fluid lubrication fails when the oil's squeezed out of crank, rocker, and wrist bearings under load. There is nothing better if you prefer to climb rocks all afternoon and not have to care about sludging your oil or spinning out bearings. The only reason why I stated that there is a minuscule drop in gas mileage is because in order to get an API "Starburst" or "Donut" on the label, the oil must provide a certain amount of improvement in gas mileage. This oil may not have been submitted for all I know, for CAFE or API certification and that may be the real reason for the lack of that logo for that matter. Honestly? I have not seen it affect the mileage in the Dodge 3500 V-6 motor *much*. If anything, it's up a few MPG. It's not my daily driver, but my roomate's.

Ah, again, I agree with you perfectly about the formulation being similar to Delvac. It is when you compared it to the new Mobil 1 Extended Performance Stuff is where my ears perked a bit. The new M1 EP actually has a lower additive pack than the older standard M1 but yet they "now" state it can go 15,000 miles. Weird how the marketing people do that.

But the new Extende performance is nothing like the old truck & SUV formulation seeing one is a heavy duty diesel oil and the other is a extended use oil with a different additive pack and less calcium and a different appication.

And back to the German Castrol...

Indeed, it is not made anymore, so the supply that I have is what I have managed to collect. I have enough for 9 more years, easily - I might even photograph my closet that's utterly stacked to the gills with it. Good luck finding it, but when you do, this is awesome stuff. It's a bit on the heavy side for a 30 weight, almost a 40 weight. However, there is much contention over just what exactly is in the stuff. I am tempted to perform an FTIR analysis of it (only because I have access to the equipment and supplies to make it run) to really find out once and for all, just what is in the stuff. Elsewhere, in another, entirely different forum it has been the subject of study and ridicule, as well as praise for quite some time. The studies that have been released on it, and what people can get away with hinting at so they are not slammed for "reverse engineering proprietary information"; points to a very unique substance indeed.

Hey bud, so you are that guy that AutoZone people have been talking about going all over the US buying up their stock..... DAMN YOU! :lol:

The 2004 and older formulation is great stuff and is actually a synthetic ester formulation rather than a PAO basestock. Either of them are great and GC has some great results. Too bad they killed it though.

You should come up to Canada where we have the 0w30 Esso XD-3 PAO Synthetic for US$3.50 a quart. Best priced synthetic in North America. I have 6 cases now. :iceslolan

Sounds like we are both neurotic about our oils. I respect that in a man.... (don't get the wrong idea now....):lol:

The newer "gold" stuff has indeed gone back to hydrocracked Group-III blend with a good Group-IV/V additive pack and PAO base, making it a blend more than anything else. A damn FINE blend, though lacking the very strong characteristics of the good old green. This may be where the subject of "additive pack" came up in relation to German Castrol. However...

Completely 100% agree with you. More conventional than synthetic now where the green was vise-versa.

There is none of this mixing, matching blending or anything going on with the 3 year run/stock of the "green" Castrol. It's straight up, pure, built by hand molecules. No additive pack in the conventional sense, merely stuff to counter oxidation/acidifying as it is a little hydroscopic in nature. Okay, okay, so that does legally define additive pack as this is what an additive pack does, but it is the very inherent, purpose-built design of the green formulation that makes it so strong overall with relatively little dinking about with traditional additive pack chemistry. Thus, it is extremely stable, and simply, does not sheer. Not one iota. It just keeps going until one of two things happens: The mild additive pack that makes it suspend and "eat" crud, like carbon particles, neutralize acids, absorb water to be evaporated, etc - over time just quits working. This oil will begin to thicken just slightly at that point. It merely gets "dirty". If your engine is in good shape, not dumping fuel, yaddayaddayadda - this oil will run conceivably forever in an automotive sense. The second instance is where the oil itself, not it's additive pack chemistry, can no longer suspend microscopic particles. If we could have "super" filtration on our trucks, this oil can be used damn near forever. The best analogy would be throwing really fine dust into water until it turns thick, mudlike. If you were to filter this mud, say through a reverse osmosis filter, you would get pure, drinkable water. We do not have this degree of filtration, so - it gets black and thick. No surprise there. I just can DO this suspending job based on it's base-stock oil formulation ALONE much better than anything else that I have seen that had initially attracted me to it.

Actually, again, all oils have a basestock which are conventional or synthetic which have additives mixed into it. The GC has an additive pack just like the rest of them. It might not need as much seeing the basestock is so superior, but it still has one. You can't say it doesn't, all oils do. Just some basestocks require more for pour point, anit-foaming etc.....

Where another oil may sludge up when it shears back, then consumes it's additive pack under extreme conditions, the "Green stuff" will still look and test nearly brand new as if it were freshly poured from the bottle. Too much of a good thing I suppose, for it was withdrawn and then reformulated back to it's former golden state, and far, far stinkier too. :P If you can find the green, go for it!

Whoa, hold on there, I think you might be glorifying this stuff a little too much. I know it is a grreat oil Wolfox, but saying it is the same after extended use is just not right at all. Oil Analysis results do say it performs excetioanlly well, but saying it is the same as when it came out of the bottle is a lot of embellishment(sp?).;)

The wear results are really good, but even Castrol GTX has some amazing wear numbers and it is a conventional oil. Technically right now, some Castrol GTX oil results coming back are better than soe synthetics. Hard to believe, but GTX is really just that good and is the conventioanl motor oil that is more liek a synthetic than any other thanks to its highly refined and reformulated Group IV basestock.

You're going to find that things get a little heated and go blow for blow on just a few topics: Politics, handguns - and motor oil. Nothing gets a fellow enthusiast's blood boiling faster than ANY of those topics. I present my take on this subject material as merely informed, self-made opinion and as such will happily play along as you all present yours. I hope we can keep it friendly and where needed - agree to disagree. Carry on folks, and have FUN! :iceslolan

Honestly, you knowledge is actually quite good and applaud your research and your knowledge on oil. This debate is making us both pull up our sleeves and educate each other which I absolutely love!

And Wolfox, I really thank you for not taking things the wrong way as other posters in this thread has been trying to twist my posts to represent.

For that, my deepest respect goes out to you. :)

blazes9395
10-20-2005, 11:39 PM
Wolfox....nice post, I agree with many points you mention. This is an interesting post, and has been talked about so many times. In my opinion, I'll stick with what I think works for me. Each oil viscosity, no matter whats stated, has different properties, if it didn't then there wouldn't be different viscosity levels on the market. No matter what it "acts like when its warm", its still different, differences like what wolfox has stated in his thread to name but a few. One thing I truely believe though, is that synthetic oil is far superior when compared to regular dino oil. It flows better when cold, resists breakdown, lasts longer, and just protects your engine better. Also, in my opinion, I have had no trouble in switching over from regular oil to synthetic oil, I have done it once, and have had no problems, other than a minor oil leak, which was solved, when I finally switched over to 10-30 on my 89 blazer. I have had many vehicles that have made it to the high miles catagory with no trouble with I am doing. I usually use 5W-30 up to about 100,000kms(60,000 miles) and switch over to 10-30 a little after that. I follow Mobil 1's recommendation on their labels on their oil. The 5-30 states its for newer vehicles, the 10-30 states its for older, higher milage vehicles. Following my schedule, I have never had an engine related problem in any vehicle I have ever owned. Heck my neighbour has a '96 4-door LT which is breaking the 430,000km on the odometer. He has used 10-30 since he purchased it new, and he uses regular dino quaker state oil - he swears by Quaker 10-30, nothing else will do. He is all original on his truck, has never had an engine problem. He drives to florida and back a lot, as they have a house down there they rent out. Basiclly, whatever works for you...all the power to ya. I know what works for me, and I will stick to that - period.

red94fourdoor
10-21-2005, 08:59 AM
Thanks for hi-jacking my thread with all of this fighting.


Anyone ever try Royal purple products?

wolfox
10-21-2005, 09:59 AM
Whoa, hold on there, I think you might be glorifying this stuff a little too much. I know it is a grreat oil Wolfox, but saying it is the same after extended use is just not right at all. Oil Analysis results do say it performs excetioanlly well, but saying it is the same as when it came out of the bottle is a lot of embellishment(sp?).;)

Okay, perhaps a wee bit. I was thinking in the back of my head, comparing your best Synthetic offering on say, a track. Load two identical vehicles with fresh oil, one "German Castrol" in the C-case, the other with your favorite major brand synthetic - and run them WOT 'round this track for 8 hours. Kill the engines and draw a sample. I'm pretty certain that the Castrol would look much closer to "fresh" after analysis than the closest competitor. You're absolutely right, almost every oil has a fortified "additive pack" - but there is just so little of that in the withdrawn Castrol product to begin with. In effect, rendering an oil that simply has much less that can "go wrong with it" that we commonly associate with high temp/stress breakdown of other products. I am keeping my eyes out for the new "Super Lube" however and if I find it, I will discuss it here with the rest of you. :) However, for reasons stated a few posts back, our engines in our trucks are relatively very easy on oil. If you keep it below 4k RPM, I bet you the timing chain and push-rod design in there doesn't even thrash the oil that much in these trucks after the GC gets a little time to work through everything and *really* clean the crud out of every nook and cranny. This is also the reason why GTX, Trop Artic and other lesser known oils also perform *extremely* well in these engines. Synthetic however, if maintained in a tightly watched, managed, and tuned Blazer - no matter the brand; is going to simply shine. Some choices are a little better than others, but not by *much* at all when it comes to the 4.3 small-block 6's that are not super/turbo charged.

And I might, just might start talking to you, BlazerLT on what it would take to get a case of XD-3 0w-30 shipped WAY down South. I bet duties/taxes/import fees are goin to be a killer, especially when you are shipping at least 20 pounds.

Oh, a tip, 'LT - if you are curious about the GC, I hear Walmart North of the border and Canadian Tire stores stock it. Couldn't hurt to drop $25 (US pricing that is) to get a complete change of 5 quarts to try for at least 6k miles. The first dose of GC really mops up after the previous oil and as such, saturates quickly with crud and sub-15 micron debris that most oil filters simply cannot catch. It comes out like ooze at the end of its first run. But after that, if you drop in more GC, she'll go 12K between oil changes, though I *still* recommend swapping your *quality* oil filter every 6.5~7.5K miles and then top up the crank case. If you drive under dusty, windy conditions, or have modified intake/induction I would re-evaluate this schedule to meet your driving demands/habits. I would cull back to 6~10K mile oil changes with 3.5K mile oil filter swaps. Forced induction and high flow air filtration systems introduce a slightly, but not much higher rate of "wear and tear" on the oil and engine. The oil's job is to protect and keep the interior parts clean, and what it cannot clean it absorbs into itself, suspending it. When that ability deteriorates over time, what is left to protect the block? Nada. ;) Oil's what's keeping these beasts alive, every inch they move. Balance your needs/demands against what products are available and work the best for your situation and go for it. It's really hard to mess it up now a-days.

Carry on folks!

red94fourdoor
10-21-2005, 10:09 AM
Thanks for hi-jacking my thread with all of this fighting.


Anyone ever try Royal purple products?

Why don't you guys start another thread so you can continue with your bickering.

ROYAL PURPLE ANYONE? Like or dislike F it I'll start a new thread

wolfox
10-21-2005, 10:41 AM
Thanks for hi-jacking my thread with all of this fighting.


Anyone ever try Royal purple products?

Cheer up buckaroo, we're trying to wrangle it back on course. :) Royal Purple is a very unique oil. Unique in that it benefits from being an extremely, well finished and polished oil that is exposed to *extreme* Hydrocracking and polishing from organic crude stock. It has a wicked-sick additive pack, most of it revolving around a very stout dose of moly which when it "plates up" on beaing surfaces, makes the engine run really smooth and quiet. However, because it is exclusively derived from petroleum stock and technically is a synthetic - they command a premium price for it. Want to "build" up a similar performing oil for your truck at a fraction of the cost and get a *real* PAO, truly synthesized oil stock in the block:

Buy a 5 quart jug of Mobil-1 10w-30 (Or 5w-30 if you are so far up North) and add *Half* a bottle of Valvoline Synpower Oil Treatment. It's the stuff in the *SILVER* bottle, not to be confused with the "Engine Treatment" that comes in a red bottle. Pour half (About 7.5 Oz.) of this honey-like, stinky goop into al already warm and idling engine once you do your oil change to Mobil-1 and fahgeddabbouddit. You're going to find the truck running pretty dam quiet, quick to rev way out there to redline and consuming a bit less fuel than before. This mixture is personally tested on another vehicle that carried a GM (Oldsmobile 307) smallblock V-8 that saw this fill in the crankcase with the oil filter being changed at 6 month/6K Mile intervals with the oil being changed only once a year! Royal purple is *good* but what they are charging for the contents of the bottle is really not worth it IMO. Stay away from this oil in small, high-winding, 4-cylinder engines in import cars and trucks. The petroleum base and additive pack depletes itself fairly quickly in OHC type engines when compared to even the most measly of purebred synthetics.

BlazerLT
10-21-2005, 11:33 AM
Why don't you guys start another thread so you can continue with your bickering.

ROYAL PURPLE ANYONE? Like or dislike F it I'll start a new thread

Relax bro, Wolfox and I are buds, we aren't bickering, it was others trying to make this thread negative.

Wolfox and I are cool. Read what we are talking about, some great education on engine lubrication here.

BlazerLT
10-21-2005, 11:44 AM
Okay, perhaps a wee bit. I was thinking in the back of my head, comparing your best Synthetic offering on say, a track. Load two identical vehicles with fresh oil, one "German Castrol" in the C-case, the other with your favorite major brand synthetic - and run them WOT 'round this track for 8 hours. Kill the engines and draw a sample. I'm pretty certain that the Castrol would look much closer to "fresh" after analysis than the closest competitor. You're absolutely right, almost every oil has a fortified "additive pack" - but there is just so little of that in the withdrawn Castrol product to begin with. In effect, rendering an oil that simply has much less that can "go wrong with it" that we commonly associate with high temp/stress breakdown of other products. I am keeping my eyes out for the new "Super Lube" however and if I find it, I will discuss it here with the rest of you. :) However, for reasons stated a few posts back, our engines in our trucks are relatively very easy on oil. If you keep it below 4k RPM, I bet you the timing chain and push-rod design in there doesn't even thrash the oil that much in these trucks after the GC gets a little time to work through everything and *really* clean the crud out of every nook and cranny. This is also the reason why GTX, Trop Artic and other lesser known oils also perform *extremely* well in these engines. Synthetic however, if maintained in a tightly watched, managed, and tuned Blazer - no matter the brand; is going to simply shine. Some choices are a little better than others, but not by *much* at all when it comes to the 4.3 small-block 6's that are not super/turbo charged.

Very true, I completely agree with you.

I just get a kick out of you Green German Castrol lovers. To everyone else, they call themselves "elves". I am not shitting you at all, they all call themselves that.;)

I agree it will do a great job in a lot of high stress application due to its heavier viscosity nature and excellent basestock. I find the trick to most of these great oils it the high concentration or Calcium. But others do have a hand in it, but Moly is non-existent in most of the GC, XD-3 and the other popular heavy duty oils. Others do have it, but they don't seems to have the longevity as the oils we are talking about today.

And I might, just might start talking to you, BlazerLT on what it would take to get a case of XD-3 0w-30 shipped WAY down South. I bet duties/taxes/import fees are goin to be a killer, especially when you are shipping at least 20 pounds.

It is already being done now. People are autually having people from Canada ship them cases on Bob's oil forum. I was asked a while ago and I was about to do it but it fell through.

The fees shouldn't be much, but hey, you have a closet full of GC and that will last you a long time.

How often are you changing it? Hope not to soon seeing that oil is made for the long haul.

Oh, a tip, 'LT - if you are curious about the GC, I hear Walmart North of the border and Canadian Tire stores stock it. Couldn't hurt to drop $25 (US pricing that is) to get a complete change of 5 quarts to try for at least 6k miles. The first dose of GC really mops up after the previous oil and as such, saturates quickly with crud and sub-15 micron debris that most oil filters simply cannot catch. It comes out like ooze at the end of its first run. But after that, if you drop in more GC, she'll go 12K between oil changes, though I *still* recommend swapping your *quality* oil filter every 6.5~7.5K miles and then top up the crank case. If you drive under dusty, windy conditions, or have modified intake/induction I would re-evaluate this schedule to meet your driving demands/habits. I would cull back to 6~10K mile oil changes with 3.5K mile oil filter swaps. Forced induction and high flow air filtration systems introduce a slightly, but not much higher rate of "wear and tear" on the oil and engine. The oil's job is to protect and keep the interior parts clean, and what it cannot clean it absorbs into itself, suspending it. When that ability deteriorates over time, what is left to protect the block? Nada. ;) Oil's what's keeping these beasts alive, every inch they move. Balance your needs/demands against what products are available and work the best for your situation and go for it. It's really hard to mess it up now a-days.

Carry on folks!

I was considering using it but with XD-3 here, I just can't turn down the awesome price and the 100% synthetic heavy duty 12.2 TBN loving. When I next change my oil back to XD-3 which will be in about a month, it will be in there for a year seeing I don't drive much seeing I own my own business and work out of my own home/office.

wolfox
10-21-2005, 01:55 PM
Very true, I completely agree with you.

I just get a kick out of you Green German Castrol lovers. To everyone else, they call themselves "elves". I am not shitting you at all, they all call themselves that.;)

Rather embarrasing too. I refer to the oil as "elves" as in "I dropped a few elves into the crankcase last weekend..." etc. There is a mystique surrounding this rare product that is the stuff of legends - and people have made their own. To think that they perpetuate the myth of Barvarian elves brewing up a mythical engine elixr...Pffft. Almost embarrasses me to be talking with these obviously mature individuals at times. ;)

I agree it will do a great job in a lot of high stress application due to its heavier viscosity nature and excellent basestock. I find the trick to most of these great oils it the high concentration or Calcium. But others do have a hand in it, but Moly is non-existent in most of the GC, XD-3 and the other popular heavy duty oils. Others do have it, but they don't seems to have the longevity as the oils we are talking about today.

Indeed, it is *very* close to an HDEO but the almost missing additive pack that is just RICHLY endowed on HDEO is not there. Moly's gone the way of Magnesium and Calcium, the latter mostly for detergency effects. Moly present in elevated levels in an oil (Above 400PPM) in an engine that has oil control problems can rapidly contaminate and nullify catalysts. With pressure from the EPA and other federal organizations for manufacturers to make vehicles with catalysts lasting in excess of 100+ K miles, this has been formulated out of modern engine oils. Yep, the usual supercedence we see in progressive API certification/Duty oils is marginally less effective at protecting against metal-to-metal contact. But that's why we're seeing a spike in Magnesium as Moly fades to almost nill. The new Castrol "gold" formulation saw moly shrink to almost nil. (Less than 30 PPM if I am remembering correctly) XD-3 is GREAT stuff with a modern, long-life catalyst friendly formulation with a TBN and additive pack that rivals the strongest Deisel oil, yet flows like buttered honey in gas engines. There is not much else that is better. I just wished that Exxon/Esso would package a similar product here in the states.



It is already being done now. People are autually having people from Canada ship them cases on Bob's oil forum. I was asked a while ago and I was about to do it but it fell through.

The fees shouldn't be much, but hey, you have a closet full of GC and that will last you a long time.

How often are you changing it? Hope not to soon seeing that oil is made for the long haul.

I am not changing it anytime soon. Not until April of '06 on this first run on the magic goo. However, I change on a monthly schedule as unfortunately, my daily commute is less than 7 miles, round trip. So there is alot of low mileage, low engine temp driving being done in ratio to long-haul trips on my end. This *immediately* in my opinion qualifies the oil, engine and driveline for a "Heavy Duty" duty cycle and it is maintained as such. So far, no problems. It would be another story if I hopped down the highway to work and got up to full temps long enough to burn off fuel contamination and condensate from combustion by-products. If you do short commutes or only fetch groceries on weekends, you had BETTER treat the truck like it was crushing rocks every time it left the driveway, but then, this is just my opinion. I have yet to have maintainence related issues causing me headaches in ANY vehicle I have owned by sticking to this philosophy.

I was considering using it but with XD-3 here, I just can't turn down the awesome price and the 100% synthetic heavy duty 12.2 TBN loving. When I next change my oil back to XD-3 which will be in about a month, it will be in there for a year seeing I don't drive much seeing I own my own business and work out of my own home/office.

Yeah, sounds like you have a perfect match there. Just be sure that the engine gets up to full, operating temperatures at least once a week, and I do not see why you couldn't go a year on Esso. 12.2 TBN parks it way out there in the range of heavy duty service oil whereas even the best "Passenger car" or "Light Duty Truck" oil still sits at a comparitavely sedate 7.5 all the way down to some pulling in low 4 or 5's. Just so that everyone else knows, TBN rating of oil refers to "Total Base Number". This is the property of an oil that allows it to "eat" contaminants and neutralize acids, water, varnish and suspend particles. The higher the TBN, the "tougher" the oil is, and the longer it will stay in service as it digests these materials, leading to safer engine interior climate for longer periods of time and enabling long-mileage change intervals. As you can start to see now, Oil's more art than science these days. Formulating and mixing your own's almost out of the picture, and certainly, you shouldn't attempt to blend different oils together as this can lead to additive "clash" - in some circumstances destroying either oil's ability to protect and do their job. Usually mixing oil products within the same manufacturer line is okay. I have no qualms in "thinning back" Delvac-1 15w-30 with 2 quarts of Mobil-1 5w-30 in the summer months, as an example. My last run of Shell Rotella-T for cleaning purposes was a mxture of "thick" Synthetic Rotella 15w-40 to 2/3's organic Rotella 10w-30. Add in half a bottle of Valvoline Synpower Oil Tretment and that truck just purrrrrrrrrrrrred as it purged itself and the super tough TBN and additive pack is again, what I think saved it from a lower intake seal leak, and the recent fiasco with my CPI where I experienced mild fuel thinning. So you see, proper choice in oil is a security blanket, helping to also aid to a degree, when you need to push those last 10 miles to get it home and PARK it until you can service the problem. ;)

BlazerLT
10-21-2005, 02:29 PM
Rather embarrasing too. I refer to the oil as "elves" as in "I dropped a few elves into the crankcase last weekend..." etc. There is a mystique surrounding this rare product that is the stuff of legends - and people have made their own. To think that they perpetuate the myth of Barvarian elves brewing up a mythical engine elixr...Pffft. Almost embarrasses me to be talking with these obviously mature individuals at times. ;)

Yea, I get a kick out of that. My god did they ever get riled up when it went gold. Through their whole life out of whack and everyone scrambled to get the remaining 2004 and older green stock.

Indeed, it is *very* close to an HDEO but the almost missing additive pack that is just RICHLY endowed on HDEO is not there. Moly's gone the way of Magnesium and Calcium, the latter mostly for detergency effects. Moly present in elevated levels in an oil (Above 400PPM) in an engine that has oil control problems can rapidly contaminate and nullify catalysts. With pressure from the EPA and other federal organizations for manufacturers to make vehicles with catalysts lasting in excess of 100+ K miles, this has been formulated out of modern engine oils. Yep, the usual supercedence we see in progressive API certification/Duty oils is marginally less effective at protecting against metal-to-metal contact. But that's why we're seeing a spike in Magnesium as Moly fades to almost nill. The new Castrol "gold" formulation saw moly shrink to almost nil. (Less than 30 PPM if I am remembering correctly) XD-3 is GREAT stuff with a modern, long-life catalyst friendly formulation with a TBN and additive pack that rivals the strongest Deisel oil, yet flows like buttered honey in gas engines. There is not much else that is better. I just wished that Exxon/Esso would package a similar product here in the states.

Moly is still there but mostly it is used in the factory fill in higher concentration. Honda's oil is really moly rich from the factory. Helps the break a lot.

The new Mobil 1 synthetics still have over 20ppm moly and it does seem to suit them rather well.

I am not changing it anytime soon. Not until April of '06 on this first run on the magic goo. However, I change on a monthly schedule as unfortunately, my daily commute is less than 7 miles, round trip. So there is alot of low mileage, low engine temp driving being done in ratio to long-haul trips on my end. This *immediately* in my opinion qualifies the oil, engine and driveline for a "Heavy Duty" duty cycle and it is maintained as such. So far, no problems. It would be another story if I hopped down the highway to work and got up to full temps long enough to burn off fuel contamination and condensate from combustion by-products. If you do short commutes or only fetch groceries on weekends, you had BETTER treat the truck like it was crushing rocks every time it left the driveway, but then, this is just my opinion. I have yet to have maintainence related issues causing me headaches in ANY vehicle I have owned by sticking to this philosophy.

Please, please please don't tell me you change your oil every month. 210 miles is too soon to change. Please don't waste your stash like that, you know that even with 7 miles a day you are doing no harm to that oil. Do an oil analysis. But if you want your stash to last you might as well get its full life instead of dumping good oil down the drain.

Yeah, sounds like you have a perfect match there. Just be sure that the engine gets up to full, operating temperatures at least once a week, and I do not see why you couldn't go a year on Esso. 12.2 TBN parks it way out there in the range of heavy duty service oil whereas even the best "Passenger car" or "Light Duty Truck" oil still sits at a comparitavely sedate 7.5 all the way down to some pulling in low 4 or 5's. Just so that everyone else knows, TBN rating of oil refers to "Total Base Number". This is the property of an oil that allows it to "eat" contaminants and neutralize acids, water, varnish and suspend particles. The higher the TBN, the "tougher" the oil is, and the longer it will stay in service as it digests these materials, leading to safer engine interior climate for longer periods of time and enabling long-mileage change intervals. As you can start to see now, Oil's more art than science these days. Formulating and mixing your own's almost out of the picture, and certainly, you shouldn't attempt to blend different oils together as this can lead to additive "clash" - in some circumstances destroying either oil's ability to protect and do their job. Usually mixing oil products within the same manufacturer line is okay. I have no qualms in "thinning back" Delvac-1 15w-30 with 2 quarts of Mobil-1 5w-30 in the summer months, as an example. My last run of Shell Rotella-T for cleaning purposes was a mxture of "thick" Synthetic Rotella 15w-40 to 2/3's organic Rotella 10w-30. Add in half a bottle of Valvoline Synpower Oil Tretment and that truck just purrrrrrrrrrrrred as it purged itself and the super tough TBN and additive pack is again, what I think saved it from a lower intake seal leak, and the recent fiasco with my CPI where I experienced mild fuel thinning. So you see, proper choice in oil is a security blanket, helping to also aid to a degree, when you need to push those last 10 miles to get it home and PARK it until you can service the problem. ;)

Very true although will all the oils on the market, mixing oils is rather a waste of time.

wolfox
10-21-2005, 07:29 PM
Moly is still there but mostly it is used in the factory fill in higher concentration. Honda's oil is really moly rich from the factory. Helps the break a lot.

The new Mobil 1 synthetics still have over 20ppm moly and it does seem to suit them rather well.

Well again, thanks to really good engineering of the base fluid stock and it's additive pack, yep - not much of a need for Moly additives. I fear, based on some of the other bits of data I read on the German stuff, adding anything to it would hurt it. So I saved the remaining half bottle of Vavoline gold goop for the roommate and his Mini when I wean that 3500 off of the T&SUV formula and onto Mobil-1 10w-30 PCMO. He's going to thank me for that, I just know it. The metallurgy of the US Engineered Dodge V-6's really seems to suck this stuff up with gusto. But yeah, Honda, and even GM cars and trucks show gobs and gobs of moly in the factory fill. It comes in bulk from the assembly lube they use to assemble the blocks in the factory. That stuff is a moly RICH concoction that is brushed on in a paste/grease form. GM's assembly lube is brushed on too whenever you rebuild journal bearings or remove/replace the valve train components. It washes out in the engine oil and is gone after initial break-in when you drop the oil sump, so it does not linger at all that long.

Please, please please don't tell me you change your oil every month. 210 miles is too soon to change. Please don't waste your stash like that, you know that even with 7 miles a day you are doing no harm to that oil. Do an oil analysis. But if you want your stash to last you might as well get its full life instead of dumping good oil down the drain.

I am sorry, I mis-typed that. This is what I get for writing my vignettes in between other tasks at work, I end up skipping words or entire lines of thought when I get distracted by work duties. Rather than stick to a mileage plan, I stick to a monthly plan - I.E. My oil change interval is determined by time, not mileage. Six months from the time I dropped this oil in is going to be sometime in April of 2006. *That's* when I am changing it. Instead of going 6000 miles on the first change, I am opting for 6 months, as that will come up before I hit that mile-marker. 6 Months of mostly cold operation, especially with Winter coming up, even this "miracle oil's" going to long for better days.

Very true although will all the oils on the market, mixing oils is rather a waste of time.

Yep, yep. Change your oil to a researched product that you feel confident with. Stick to it for two, maybe three oil changes so that is *all* that is in your crankcase. Face it, you're never going to get ALL of the old oil out, so it's always going to be an amalgam of stuff if you keep switching brands/formulas. If it does not work like you want it to, then try something else, again for about two or three oil changes. I am fairly confident when the last of the old Rotella washes out with this change of German Castrol I will see further benefits and improvements. With over 500 miles (I have been going out of my way to drive the truck to makes sure all of the bugs are out after my CPI replacement - so far so good *knocks on wood*) on the clock since the switch to this oil, the faint green tinge atop of nearly water-clear fluid sticking to the dipstick is turning a slightly darker tinge of green, but still very slick feeling goo. She's getting her pipes thoroughly cleaned up. Popping off the filler neck on the driver's side valve cover reveals some pooling of the green stuff atop of the rockers and other hardware. Blowing it off and out of the way reveals clean, factory fresh looking metal, like she just rolled off the factory floor. I am a believer thus far in synthetic's inherent ability to clean and keep things clean because she was absolutely filthy and sludgy under the covers just a mere 5 months ago. I hope the trend continues. Now if only there was something in a bottle that I can pour on the roomate and the kitchen to keep things clean in there... :rofl:

Garfield2
07-18-2006, 11:08 PM
I've used Valvoline 5-30 in my Buick's and my wifes Chevy Lumina, even though they have high mileage and am pleased with their results. In the fall I change to 5-30 and in may I change the oil to 10-30. I know.. kind of silly to change oil that way, but I like the idea of the 5-30 in the winter and the 10-30 in the summer.

I just bought a new "used" 1996 Park Avenue and even though I have 10-30 in it, I'm thinking of going to Amsoil 10-40. I used to sell and use Amsoil when back in Nebraska and really liked the product.

anyway, Valvoline is pretty handy to find at Wal-Mart and such and I always like the Valvoline conventional oils due to their lower volatility.

I think I'd like to change the ATF to Amsoil as well, but I have reserved thoughts about putting in Lucas Transmission additive:frown:

BlazerLT
07-19-2006, 12:01 AM
I've used Valvoline 5-30 in my Buick's and my wifes Chevy Lumina, even though they have high mileage and am pleased with their results. In the fall I change to 5-30 and in may I change the oil to 10-30. I know.. kind of silly to change oil that way, but I like the idea of the 5-30 in the winter and the 10-30 in the summer.

I just bought a new "used" 1996 Park Avenue and even though I have 10-30 in it, I'm thinking of going to Amsoil 10-40. I used to sell and use Amsoil when back in Nebraska and really liked the product.

anyway, Valvoline is pretty handy to find at Wal-Mart and such and I always like the Valvoline conventional oils due to their lower volatility.

I think I'd like to change the ATF to Amsoil as well, but I have reserved thoughts about putting in Lucas Transmission additive:frown:

No need to go from 5w30 to 10w30 at all, they both a 30 weight at operating temperature.

Don't bother with anything lucas, it is known to cause faoming which is not good for any tranny.

BTW, this is an old thread, prepare for it being locked.

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