Help with 91 PA not turning over..then it does...

..this is what happened... I drive my 91 park avenue to work today, no problem. Work all done, time to go home. Whoppie!! Get in car all excited, turn the key......nothing....not a clik..not a crank...nothing!!! Oh no I'm thinking, I must of left a light on or something. Nope, radio nice and load, lights work fine. What the heck!
I have a buddy try and jump it. No go. Man! Not on Friday. I check the battery connections and tighten them. Try again, no go.
I decide to go back in the shop and call a tow truck to drag her home. I talk with some guys still working and they tell me could be the alternator or the starter.
I take a hammer out to tap on the starter but before I do I try to start it one more time and the dawg gone thing starts!?!?! What the heck?? Go back inside and cancel the tow truck.
Now finally to the question. What do you guys think happened? I don't want this to happen again can you give me some ideas on what to eliminate to find the cause of this?
One other thing. It has been very dry since I have owned this car. I have only had it a month. Today was our first real soaking rain here in Michigan since then. Could the dampness of caused this somehow? Just trying to think of all things that might of happened. Thanks in advance for any help or ideas. Jim

Hey Jimmie, I'm in MI too and the rain and cold hasn't had any adverse affects on my 92 LeSabre, so I'm guessing this is strictly a PA thing :wink:

However, it sounds like it could be the beginning of a bad crank sensor, it could be a problem with the ignition cylinder, it could be a starter going bad .... etc . :dunno:

Unfortunately, it's hard to say without a little more info.

Do you have any error codes stored in the ECM to share with us?

You might have to take it to a shop and have the crank & cam sensors checked (depending on whether your holding codes or not).

This might come down to having to wait for more apparent signs of the problem.

Take it to your favorite auto parts store and have them test the battery and alternator, its free.

THen, check the terminals for corrosion, phisically take them off of the car. The + terminal has 2 leads, check between them for corrosion buildup.

jimmiejam,

I have the same problem. I think the problem has to do with the chip in your key (the VATs System)

At first I assumed that the problem with my car was the starter so I put the key in the run position and ran a wire to the starter. It would turn over perfectly and fire, but would not stay running. It was then that I noticed the security light on my dash was flashing. This is part of the VATs system on my PA. Normally when I get into the car the security light flashes. Once I put the key in and turn it, the light burns steady for 3 seconds and goes off. This time, however, the security light just kept blinking. I tried to start the car about 20 times before giving up. About 15 minutes later I came out, put the key in and I immediately noticed that the security light stopped blinking then went out.. One turn of the key and it started right up.

I am in Minnesota and this usually only happens to my car when it is very cold. I don't think the problem is the key because I have two and the same thing happens with both. I am assuming that the computer that reads the resistance on the key's chip is going bad, but I have no idea where that is or if it can be replaced. Any idea's?

(My Lasabre has the same VATs system but no light on the dash. I am glad I didn't have this problem on that car because I never would have figured it out.)

--- Mitch

One more thing, I know that the message above mine has a link that tells you how to but bypass the key with a resistor, however it didn't work for me. I get the same resistance when I move the key. Also, I have an automatic car starter which already bypasses the key at the base of the steering column, but I get the same results. Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. At least on my car, if there is a problem, I don't think it is in the ignition cylinder.

I would suspect either bad connection(i.e. battery terminals, or at the starter soleniod). if it is intermittent it would be hard to troubleshoot. I am not positive if the Vats system just disables the ignition and fuel or if it will also disable the 12 volt signal to the starter solenoid. wether the Vats system will disable the starter from turning the engine over is a key piece of information. I would not suspect the crankshaft positioning sensor or the camshaft sensor becuase I have never heard of them preventing an starter from cranking an engine, only preventing it from starting while it is cranking

These two links will help you understand the VATS system and how it works. Read it several times to help absorb the details between the early and later versions.
:grinyes:

http://www.motorage.com/motorage/data/articlestandard/motorage/292005/169809/article.pdf
VATS & PASSKEY 11 systems

http://www.12vp.com/info_resistors.htm
GM Vats System Bypass

:cheers: