I just found out about E85 fuel, and was pretty excited until I found out that my car is not equipped to use E85. I know that the main differences between a gasoline only vehicle and one that can use the E85 is:
1) the sensors that read the fuel and adjust the fuel injection and timing, and
2) anything the fuel comes into contact with is "upgraded" to withstand the higher amount of alcohol.

I was able to find all kinds of info on the benefits (eg. lower pollution, etc) and the drawbacks (fuel economy reduction of 5 - 10%) of using E85, but I wasn't able to find anything about converting my '97 Taurus (or any other car, for that matter) to use it! I'm very curious as to whether or not this can be done and how much it might cost.

Anyone know where I can find the info I'm looking for?

It is really not worth it. You'll be paying way more than your car is worth.

It is really not worth it. You'll be paying way more than your car is worth.

I didn't ask if it would be worth it, I'm just looking for the information! (Background info: I work at a Pizza Hut delivery) One of my drivers found out that his van can run on it and it sparked a lively conversation on the subject amongst the other drivers. Noone seemed to have any real information on the subject and I got curious as to the particulars. Like I said, I can find several different sources of information on everything but conversion. I'd like to know where I can tell those drivers who aren't fortunate enough to already own an FFV where to find the information. It's one thing to say, "It's not worth it." It's entirely different to say, "Here's where you can find the information so that you're informed enough to make your own decision." Sure, I already know the cost would probably be too prohibitive, but if I was an auto mechanic I wouldn't be working at PH! Give me the source information to back it up!!!!!!!!!

Can it be done? Yes. Is there a Kit for it, no. Will you pass emissions, not sure. Here is some info so that you can make an informed decision .
Here is a exerpt form E85 website abouth the conversion:
Is it possible to convert a vehicle that was designed for gasoline to operate on E85? Yes. However, there are no conversion or aftermarket parts that have been certified by the EPA as meeting the standards to maintain clean exhaust emissions. Technically speaking, converting a vehicle that was designed to operate on unleaded gasoline only to operate on another form of fuel is a violation of the federal law and the offender may be subject to significant penalties. No aftermarket conversion company has taken the initiative to certify an E85 kit that would allow a gasoline vehicle to operate on 85% ethanol. There is only one major additional part that is included on an FFV, the fuel sensor that detects the ethanol/gasoline ratio. A number of other parts on the FFV’s fuel delivery system are modified so that they are ethanol compatible. The fuel tank, fuel lines, fuel injectors, computer system, anti-siphon device, and dashboard gauges have been modified slightly. Alcohols are corrosive. Therefore, any part that comes in contact with the fuel has been upgraded to be tolerant to alcohol. Normally, these parts include a stainless steel fuel tank and Teflon lined fuel hoses

Basically your choices really are to buy all the new parts from the dealer one by one, or to find a junked FFV Taurus and take those parts off. At the same time you'd have to replace the entire fuel system, and also change the PCM to run the new hardware. As for the 5to 10% decrease in fuel mileage thats not correct for your year taurus, its much lower than that. Here is a link you should look at. They test a 97 taurus E85 vs gas.http://www.eere.energy.gov/afdc/pdfs/taurus.pdf
Also for general info http://www.e85fuel.com This is not something i would recommend undertaking, you could run into a lot more problems than you think. Aside from that, it does not seem to be legal ( then again there are plenty of people running without cats and other emissions equipment).

it would be much cheaper to just sell your car and buy an FFV Taurus or Ranger

thank you for the info and for providing a website that I can direct others to. Already figured the cost would be too high to offset possible savings on my car but others I work with don't view their cars in the same way and this gives me something solid to base my arguements on.

Also, big thanks for providing link info specific to my car. Have been pondering the purchase of a (cheap) back-up vehicle and this will give me something else to consider....

Now you can. There are easy to install conversion kits available from E85andyou.com.

Don't believe the stories of ethanol damaging everything.......not true. There is a youtube video of a 5.7l Tahoe that was not an original FFV and was driven over 100,000 miles on e85. The engine and fuel system were dismantled and no adverse effects were found. My persomal car is a 1996 Cougar 4.6l that has been running E85 for over 10,000 miles and I love the savings.

I have not seen any e85 near me. How do I find where to buy it? How does its cost compare to regular? What's the benefit of using it if cost is same and performance less?

There was an episode of Goss' Garage on Motorweek not too long ago where Pat Goss discussed the necessary modifications to convert to run on E85.

Going off memory here, but it involves a new fuel pump/sender assembly, new fuel lines in many cases (especially if your car has the plastic lines), new intake manifold, new heads and valves, new fuel injector rail and injectors, and a computer to monitor and compensate for the ethanol. It most cases, it's not a simple modification. Maybe you can find the excerpt on youtube or similar, or possibly even from their link. I'll take a quick look.

-Rod

http://www.autobloggreen.com/2007/12/30/motorweek-video-e85-conversions-are-impractical/
http://www.mpt.org/motorweek/goss/afv.shtml

-Rod

I live in Las Vegas NV. E-85 is readily available at many stations. Cheapest price I've seen is 10c gallon less, is often 3 - 5c less than 87 regular. I have an FFV Ranger. Town economy is 15 with regular and 10- 12 with E-85. The local paper ran an article telling that ANYONE can safely run what we buy as E-85 for a couple of tanks without any damage. They tested it out to be about 70% ethanol, not 85.
Is something that does not seem to have caught on for perhaps obvious reasons. Most people are finding something else to get excited about.

There was an episode of Goss' Garage on Motorweek not too long ago where Pat Goss discussed the necessary modifications to convert to run on E85.

Going off memory here, but it involves a new fuel pump/sender assembly, new fuel lines in many cases (especially if your car has the plastic lines), new intake manifold, new heads and valves, new fuel injector rail and injectors, and a computer to monitor and compensate for the ethanol. It most cases, it's not a simple modification. Maybe you can find the excerpt on youtube or similar, or possibly even from their link. I'll take a quick look.

-Rod

I have seen this episode of Goss' Garage. What a load of propaganda. Hitler would be proud. General Motors must be very afraid of losing FFV sales. You can believe what the big corporations and oil companies feed you. It is far from the truth. Here is another video that sheds more light on the subject. http://youtube.com/watch?v=HuOs1yap8mU The distinguished Mr. Goss is right about one thing. There needs to be some computer modification. The exact one he is proclaiming to be a scam. There really are simple solutions available from several sources. One of them is E85andyou.com. I sure am glad all "Master Techs" are not like him. Presenting uninformed opinion as fact.

I live in Las Vegas NV. E-85 is readily available at many stations. Cheapest price I've seen is 10c gallon less, is often 3 - 5c less than 87 regular. I have an FFV Ranger. Town economy is 15 with regular and 10- 12 with E-85. The local paper ran an article telling that ANYONE can safely run what we buy as E-85 for a couple of tanks without any damage. They tested it out to be about 70% ethanol, not 85.
Is something that does not seem to have caught on for perhaps obvious reasons. Most people are finding something else to get excited about.
I'm sorry to inform you of this. Someone is royaly screwing you. In most parts of the nation E85 is about $.50 per gallon less. Some areas as much as $1.00. Generally the cost savings outweighs the drop in fuel economy. Sounds like you need to ask your local or state representatives what is going on and you're mad as hell about being ripped off.

The "couple of tankfull" thing. Not a real good idea without a converter. Non-flex vehicles cannot compensate for the mixture change without a lil help. A full tank in an unconverted vehicle will cause check engine light and rough running due to a severe lean condition. As for the 70% content, that is winter blend. Especially for the colder climates, winter blended E70 is used to aid in starting due to the vaporization point of ethanol.

tbrdlvr88, All I know is what I see available. E-85 is not readily available in many parts of the country and since you did not identify yours, I don't know. In case you haven't read, it uses more energy to make than the energy it produces and without government subsidies it would actually cost more than petrol. Maybe us roughnecks out here in Nevada don't have enough political pull to get a subsidy. What results you think a person would get from local officials about it? Imagine you can guess.

I live in Iowa, where ethanol fuel is subsidized. Even here in the corn state, E-85 is not $1.00 cheaper than non-ethanol per gallon, and the drop in fuel economy is noticeable. Heck, even the drop in fuel economy using E-15 is noticeable to not be offset by the $0.10 per gallon savings. To each his own I guess.

What is needed to run E-85 sounds like when R-134a came out. There were all sorts of opinions on what is needed to convert from R-12 to R-134a. As with most things, the best bet is to do thorough research and make as informed of a decision as you can. You can't always believe what you read or watch on the Internet. Also, I'm not sure you should necessarily believe what you may read from a source whose business is obviously selling product in the field you are researching. If you can find a truely independent source of data, that could be most valuable.

-Rod

it would be much cheaper to just sell your car and buy an FFV Taurus or Ranger
Yes that's what I would do. If someone came out with a kit to convert they'd make a ton of money, as E85 is soon going to be 1/3rd the price of regular gas :tongue: There is a company that is working with GM and they just found a way to make E85 out of ordinary trash. They said it would only cost .99 a gallon :)

The kits are available NOW. They can be found at http://www.driveflexfuel.com
There is also a bunch of helpful info on there. I have one of these kits in my 96 Cougar and love it. Right now there is a $.50 per gal difference in my area. Hoping if enough people use E85 the price will drop further.

Thanks for the link tbrdlvr88 :) 500.00 seems very reasonable for the conversion kit. I'll have to look into this closer and see if I can find some instructions for the kit. I might soon have the worlds first E85 Duratec :p

My $.02....
First off, I'd imagine the low spread between E85 and regular in NV is due to transportation costs.
Second, I believe Motorweek's show partly held the line they did due to liability. A formidable show like that likely doesn't want to stick their neck out and say it's ok to start pumping E85 into your Bentley. If I remember right, they didn't state what ages of vehicles each problem applied to. Generally, vehicles produced after the 10% ethanol/MTBE mandate are able to run higher blends of ethanol. Unfortunately, if the computer isn't meant to run E85, you'll probably get a CEL and possibly a substantially larger reduction in mpg than FFV's.
There have been studies of non-flex fuel vehicles running blends of ethanol E20 and higher with no problems, some of them getting marginally better mpg. Each car had an optimum blend, most being E30-E50. I've been running E30 in my 200,000mi '92 Olds for several months now and have had no problems and the mpg has shown to be consistent with regular gas. I intend to up the ethanol percentage, but no more than E60.
Bottom line, who would you rather buy fuel from? Arabs or the U.S. farmer? I'll take the latter even if I paid twice as much because we've never spent trillions on wars with farmers, let alone the trillions we give arabs each year for their gas.

Thanks for the link tbrdlvr88 :) 500.00 seems very reasonable for the conversion kit. I'll have to look into this closer and see if I can find some instructions for the kit. I might soon have the worlds first E85 Duratec :p


When I purchased my kit they sent me a link to the instruction manual. It's on their site. Go to the site, click on conversion kits, then click on instalation info. At the bottom of that page is a link to the manual in PDF format. If you have ANY auto knowledge, these things are a breeze to put in. Took me about 30 min. Had to remove a couple things to get access. Prolly should send them an email and tell them to make it a lil easier to find the instructions.