water pump problem??? please help!!
Jweible
07-08-2005, 05:37 AM
Ok so I have a 94 Grand am SOHC, Quad 4 2.3L. My coolant system, I have had just about everything replaced in that damn thing. For instance, my thermostat, my thermo. housing. A few leaky hoses, the radiator, The pressure cap for the overflow tank. Major things. But anyways my car is overheating like mad. I belive since im not leaking that it is a possible flow problem caused by the water pump not circulating. But I have no idea where it is located at or how to tell if it is operating correctly or not. Any ideas or opinions would be great. Thank you.
catback23
07-08-2005, 07:27 AM
Are you sure you don't have air in the system? Usually when the water pump goes it'll leak through the weep hole. The water pump is located on the front side (belt side) of the engine, on the side of the timing chain housing facing the transmission, right underneath the exhaust manifold. It's part of the elbow thing that mates with the timing chain housing and engine block (or maybe head--I don't remember). They are a bitch to get to on these cars and really it's alot easier to rule everything else out first. If I were you I'd make sure the air is out of the system and if it is get under the car and take a look at the water pump weep hole to see if it's leaking any.
GTP Dad
07-08-2005, 10:54 AM
I have to agree with catback23. This sounds like air in the system to me. Once you get the air out it should cool normally.
Jweible
07-08-2005, 02:10 PM
how do you get air out of the system?
GTP Dad
07-08-2005, 04:41 PM
Remove the radiator cap and start the car. Allow the engine to heat up until the thermostat drops. This should allow the pump to circulate the coolant and once the air gets to the cap you will see a fluid level drop. Refill with coolant and the problem should go away.
Jweible
07-08-2005, 10:05 PM
Where is the radiator cap located on a 94 grand am? All I've got is a damn pressure cap for my overflow tank.
GTP Dad
07-09-2005, 02:38 PM
Sorry man! If you only have a pressure cap on the overflow you will need to remove the pipe plug on top of the thermostat housing to get the air to come out of the system. Loosen it and allow the car to heat up. You will get a small flow of coolant when the thermostat opens but if there is any air in the system it will remove it.
doobiess
07-09-2005, 03:34 PM
there is a bleeder valve located on top of the water pump makes it alot easier...
catback23
07-09-2005, 04:04 PM
there is a bleeder valve located on top of the water pump makes it alot easier...
On the Quad 4 2.3L SOHC? If there really was a bleeder there it would be useless, the exhaust manifold is right above the pump.
On the Quad 4 2.3L SOHC? If there really was a bleeder there it would be useless, the exhaust manifold is right above the pump.
skibum1111
07-09-2005, 04:48 PM
the easiest way to bleed a quad motor is to let it idle with the pressure cap on the overflow tank off, it will take around 20 minutes or so, let it run long enough for the thermostat to open and close several times. I let mine run until the fan turns on, usually about 20-25 minutes on a warm (75 degree) day. If you pull the plug on the thermostat housing all you are going to get is alot of coolant spilled on the ground as the thermostat is on the bottom of the motor.
Jweible
07-09-2005, 06:42 PM
OK, so i just let it run for like 30 mins with the pressure cap on the overflow tank off. So now if I take it around for a test drive it should be fine??
skibum1111
07-09-2005, 10:22 PM
Watch your coolant level when you are doing it, and make sure the car is level. It's not unusual for the coolant level to drop when it passes large amounts of air out of the tank. Once that is done, if the problem was caused by air in the system, it should be fixed.
Jweible
07-09-2005, 10:27 PM
It didnt work. It still overheats just the same. Now get this, yesterday I was driving somewhere earlier in the day in a warmer temperature and it didnt overheat at all. It started to but then it dropped back to normal. Now, on my way back (driving the same exact distance and less stoppping and going) later in the day when it was a cooler temperature outside it overheated. Whats up with that?
skibum1111
07-10-2005, 08:19 AM
Ok here's something to try... The quad motors have probably the crappiest cooling system design out there. Disconnect your heater hoses from the motor and attach the hose that came from the water outlet to a garden hose, see if water flows through smoothly. Coolant goes from the water outlet through the heater core and then across the thermostat. If the heater core clogs up the thermostat does not open, causing the car to overheat.
mrfixit72
07-11-2005, 09:44 AM
I had a simular problem with my mother-in-laws car. I looked in the haynes book to see where the water pump was and it is located in the middle of the timing chain. In order to change the water pump you have to partically pull the motor out and then disconnect the timng chain housing.
So I took it to a mechanic and they agreed with me. It will cost some money to change we water pump.
Just keep in mind. The car has alumium heads, and they will crack easy. That car has to stay cool at all times. The engine has to be kept cool at all times!!!!
This is from a mechanic I know and trust very much!!!
So I took it to a mechanic and they agreed with me. It will cost some money to change we water pump.
Just keep in mind. The car has alumium heads, and they will crack easy. That car has to stay cool at all times. The engine has to be kept cool at all times!!!!
This is from a mechanic I know and trust very much!!!
skibum1111
07-11-2005, 05:34 PM
If a mechanic tells you that the timing chain on a 94 quad motor has to come off to change the water pump, find a new mechanic. the timing chain stays on, the water pump drive gear is driven by a bearing supported pulley, allowing the pump to be removed without removing the timing chain. Unfortunately, GM changed this for 1996 and up when they went to the 2.4 quad. On the 94 quads the exhaust manifold has to come off to enable access to the top bolt on the pump, other than that its a fairly easy job, I was able to do mine from the top of the car.
Jweible
07-11-2005, 06:51 PM
well yesterday we checked the thermostat and it seems to be working properly. The car still overheats. It actually overheats faster now. It seems that there is no coolant flowing at all now. It seems that only one side of the radiator is getting hot. What could be the cause of this??
catback23
07-11-2005, 07:59 PM
I had a simular problem with my mother-in-laws car. I looked in the haynes book to see where the water pump was and it is located in the middle of the timing chain. In order to change the water pump you have to partically pull the motor out and then disconnect the timng chain housing.
So I took it to a mechanic and they agreed with me. It will cost some money to change we water pump.
Just keep in mind. The car has alumium heads, and they will crack easy. That car has to stay cool at all times. The engine has to be kept cool at all times!!!!
This is from a mechanic I know and trust very much!!!
What engine? SOHC or DOHC? I know for a fact (personal experience) that I didn't need to mess with the timing chain when I replaced my pump, it was driven by the timing chain and bolted to the timing chain housing but the shaft on the pump is splined and it disconnects from the housing by sliding out (like taking the axle out from the trans). I'm gonna throw this in too, I hate the chilton and haynes books I find so little useful information in them that it's ridiculous. Even with the book I find myself just figuring things out on my own. Trying to put the new pump in was one of those "figure it out yourself puzzle" things and the damn book was no help even with a section devoted to water pump removal and installation. I mean sure reverse of removal sounds easy but when you got gaskets made of anything but metal in that 90 degree corner and your trying to put them in along with the water pump, "reverse of removal" just isn't enough or remotely useful. Why such degree of hatred for them books from just one job example? Answer: because I took the water pump out many times just trying to figure out how to get the gasket to go in and line up. Utterly useless piece of **** book.......(muttering curses here)
So I took it to a mechanic and they agreed with me. It will cost some money to change we water pump.
Just keep in mind. The car has alumium heads, and they will crack easy. That car has to stay cool at all times. The engine has to be kept cool at all times!!!!
This is from a mechanic I know and trust very much!!!
What engine? SOHC or DOHC? I know for a fact (personal experience) that I didn't need to mess with the timing chain when I replaced my pump, it was driven by the timing chain and bolted to the timing chain housing but the shaft on the pump is splined and it disconnects from the housing by sliding out (like taking the axle out from the trans). I'm gonna throw this in too, I hate the chilton and haynes books I find so little useful information in them that it's ridiculous. Even with the book I find myself just figuring things out on my own. Trying to put the new pump in was one of those "figure it out yourself puzzle" things and the damn book was no help even with a section devoted to water pump removal and installation. I mean sure reverse of removal sounds easy but when you got gaskets made of anything but metal in that 90 degree corner and your trying to put them in along with the water pump, "reverse of removal" just isn't enough or remotely useful. Why such degree of hatred for them books from just one job example? Answer: because I took the water pump out many times just trying to figure out how to get the gasket to go in and line up. Utterly useless piece of **** book.......(muttering curses here)
Jweible
07-12-2005, 12:58 AM
They are a bit frustrating.
crazydave1959
07-12-2005, 08:10 AM
What engine? SOHC or DOHC? I know for a fact (personal experience) that I didn't need to mess with the timing chain when I replaced my pump, it was driven by the timing chain and bolted to the timing chain housing but the shaft on the pump is splined and it disconnects from the housing by sliding out (like taking the axle out from the trans). I'm gonna throw this in too, I hate the chilton and haynes books I find so little useful information in them that it's ridiculous. Even with the book I find myself just figuring things out on my own. Trying to put the new pump in was one of those "figure it out yourself puzzle" things and the damn book was no help even with a section devoted to water pump removal and installation. I mean sure reverse of removal sounds easy but when you got gaskets made of anything but metal in that 90 degree corner and your trying to put them in along with the water pump, "reverse of removal" just isn't enough or remotely useful. Why such degree of hatred for them books from just one job example? Answer: because I took the water pump out many times just trying to figure out how to get the gasket to go in and line up. Utterly useless piece of **** book.......(muttering curses here)
so true i did mine by the instructinons that came with the water pump. sorry if i added this worry
so true i did mine by the instructinons that came with the water pump. sorry if i added this worry
catback23
07-12-2005, 08:27 AM
well yesterday we checked the thermostat and it seems to be working properly. The car still overheats. It actually overheats faster now. It seems that there is no coolant flowing at all now. It seems that only one side of the radiator is getting hot. What could be the cause of this??
Is the thermostat installed in the correction direction, have you tried running the car without the thermostat. I'm gonna assume you refilled and bleed the system after you inspected the thermostat. If you have coolant flow you'll have a warm pressurized upper radiator hose, you can feel and squeeze it a lil to feel the water in it. The bottom hose should be cooler. I'd say since you inspected the thermostat and at least partly drained the system it's overheating faster because of either low coolant and/or air.
Is the thermostat installed in the correction direction, have you tried running the car without the thermostat. I'm gonna assume you refilled and bleed the system after you inspected the thermostat. If you have coolant flow you'll have a warm pressurized upper radiator hose, you can feel and squeeze it a lil to feel the water in it. The bottom hose should be cooler. I'd say since you inspected the thermostat and at least partly drained the system it's overheating faster because of either low coolant and/or air.
catback23
07-12-2005, 08:34 AM
so true i did mine by the instructinons that came with the water pump. sorry if i added this worry
Yea I did too, it told me how to assemble and torque everything off the car but failed to tell me how to get the assembly and the last (1 or 2 I can't remember) gasket(s) in there with the assembly. That day I learned the amazing wonders of gasket sealer and how well it can hold a gasket when your trying to install the water pump in that tight corner and have to slide the pump into the the studs and drive gear without losing the gasket line up on the engine side.
Yea I did too, it told me how to assemble and torque everything off the car but failed to tell me how to get the assembly and the last (1 or 2 I can't remember) gasket(s) in there with the assembly. That day I learned the amazing wonders of gasket sealer and how well it can hold a gasket when your trying to install the water pump in that tight corner and have to slide the pump into the the studs and drive gear without losing the gasket line up on the engine side.
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