I was reading about the Mustang Cobra's and couldn't help but noticed that it had 390 hp, 390 torque and could do a 1/4 mile in the 12 range.
So my question is, is there any stock Camaro that could even compete. Maybe the SS but I want diff opinions

That Calaway Camaro would take it on, lol.

i guess an ss can lay it down if driven right. but u can never go wrong with a zl1, i saw 2 this weekend in atlanta a the f-body gathering they were sweet!

Correct me if im wrong but I don't even think the Calaway did 12 range.
2 Zl1 in one day. Now that's something to remember, did you take pics, if you did postum

yes i did ill be getting the disk 2morrow so ill post them. it was the first time i seen one that wasnt on my screen saver lol. they were nice as hell, and more power to the 2 guys that had it to pay over 100grand to say they have one. the sad thig was those werent even the nicest/fastest camaros there and they have big blocks in them.

oh i forgot to tell u that we went to gmmg i think thats what it was called, but thats were they make all the super camaros or special editions.they let us tour the place, man i wish i had big bucks, damn a ferrari or a porsh, i would have them make me a bad ass camaro that nobody else had....year one also had a few nice ones that im sure could stomp a cobra or 2. one car had cobra hunter on the front tint strip

an SS camaro wouldn't even come close to 12's they dont have much more power than a Z28

So my question is, is there any stock Camaro that could even compete. Maybe the SS but I want diff opinions
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No....

I have a buddy with an '04 Cobra, stock he ran a 12.14... He has added Basanni Exhaust, smaller supercharger pulley which almost doubled his boost, and a few other mods..... and is now hitting 11.60s...

~John

03-04 Cobras wont be touched by a camaro in the 1/4 stock for stock...ZL1's are awesome (commenting since they were mentioned). There is a guy in my hometown that bought two ZL1's when they were released. I have a pic i'll have to find of when he dyno'd his and it did pretty well there as well :)

I notice in the camaro forum there is alot of anti-stang comments that are repetative and idiotic for the most part. Not saying this thread is by anymeans just commenting because i've seen alot of it. I personally dont care if the stang "had to use a blower to be fast." It's damn fast and gets MUCH faster with little money in mods...Cant beat that IMO. I will someday own a mustang or two...it wont replace my camaro...But i will own one.

William

Eh I say just throw a Corvette at it, whatever a Camaro cant eat up, the Vette takes it on.

Edit- I think we're losing Will.

an SS camaro wouldn't even come close to 12's they dont have much more power than a Z28
It has NO more power than the Z-28's. Hell, the Z-28 probably stands a better chance stock than the SS thanks to weight.
03/04 Cobras are something that stock LS1 cars get beat by. A lot.
Even more so when mods play a factor for both cars.

Let's put it this way....I would love to run a stock Cobra, and I would probably pull on one, but not by much. I have $3000 into my Trans Am.

Exactly Mr Luos, that's what i was saying. No one is losing me I'll love my camaro till i die...I'm not so much a "camaro" fan as i am a fan of first gen camaros...There are probably a few Cobras out there that can hold their own against Vettes as well (stock for stock).

William

Exactly Mr Luos, that's what i was saying. No one is losing me I'll love my camaro till i die...I'm not so much a "camaro" fan as i am a fan of first gen camaros...There are probably a few Cobras out there that can hold their own against Vettes as well (stock for stock).

William
Stock for Stock.....
LS6 Z06 Corvettes are a touch faster. Not by much. Although add corners, and the Cobra is in the rear view.
LS2 Corvettes should also be a VERY close race with a 03/04 Cobra. Both in stock form.

Yea, Cobras are decent in corners but tend to PUSH alot like most stangs...In a straight line, cobra does pretty well for itself and can hold it's own...Solid axle in cobra = badass times...

William

Wait we talking about new like 05 new or 5th gen vettes?

I was talking about Vettes and cobras of the same year...I cant wait to see what the GT500 stang does...I have a couple friends that are on the list in my hometown area to own the first two in town...This could get interesting quick (one has a turbo 90 stang in the low 9s soon to be 8s and the other has a convertible 99 cobra in the 10s).

William

I'd actually like to have one of those GT500s

I like to have a 97 SS and a 04 Cobra, but that's not going to happen.
If the Camaro's did compete with the 04 Cobra, GM would be competing with themselves with the Vette. Great two 12's cars, but ones 10,000 dollars cheaper. That's one thing the iroc was doing in my opinion What do the Zo6 do in the 1/4 mile?
Why would they make an SS if the Z28's are faster?
I don't think your right with that one...SS have to be faster.

SS was mainly an appearance package...Not faster. Z06's have been known to get into the high 11s stock...

That is part of the reason the camaro had such a problem selling, the Vette wasn't much more and the f-body was expensive.

William

I believe it's performance as well...

Just read up on it, SS has an extra 30 hp from CAI...your right, not really a diff. sorry

the hp increase was mainly GM trying to sell the car....There is very little changed and not much performance difference seen...

William

i think the 03/04 cobra was going after the corvette z06 anyway, im not sure the price but im pretty sure its on up there in the corvette price range. but what is the cobra without the supercharger, nothing but another mustang. what about a z28 LS1 with a supercharger vs. supercharged cobra. no competition.

But the LS1's have more displacement over the Mustangs (I think their 4.6L?) I have a feeling this will all play out with the new Z06's and the GT500's. They are going into a horsepower war with these two. Chevy still has to play it's trump card by bolting on a blower to the LS7 (which will be baaaaaad!) but Ford is already close to 500hp with much smaller displacement. I won't be ready to declare a winner till there both blown and over 400 c.i.

As far as the Z28 vs. SS thing, basically, the extra money went for a cool hood and spoiler. The SS could have been ordered with a few extra options (a different rear end, short throw, exhaust) but none of these make a big difference in performance numbers. I didn't buy mine because I thought it would beat everything else (just a love-at-first-sight thing). I think the #1 thing the SS has going for it is people just assume that they are way quicker.

Why would they make an SS if the Z28's are faster?
I don't think your right with that one...SS have to be faster.
Trust me. I know these things.

SS = Z-28 when it comes to overall speed and straight line performance. Same motor, same transmissions.

they rate the SS at more so they can make all the cars seem to be on a hyerarchy, v6-z28-SS-corvette-z06

its so they can sell them for more $$

its all marketing techniques, with the LS1 cars, nobody really knows what they make, cept Mr Luos, they rate them at 305 hp but they lay down close to that if not more bone stock. and they say that some LS1's are faster than others, which makes no sense to me might not be true i dont know, but basically GM knew that the LS1 camaro was faster than they wanted to sell it as being, so they underrated it so it wouldn't take away from the sale of corvettes which were only like 330 something or 350 hp i believe, around 1998, correct me if im wrong

but yeah its basically paying for a cool hood and a spoiler and wheels and a badge. the performance is the same, sometimes there are more restrictive parts on the z28 just to hold her down a little to make an SS look stronger (i.e. airbox, muffler, other stuff from SLP)

Explains why the irocs were rated 10 less hp than the vettes back when both had the L98. Still using the same old techniques i guess.

Trust me. I know these things.

SS = Z-28 when it comes to overall speed and straight line performance. Same motor, same transmissions.
Thanks for the insight, but that was already cleared up

..Cant beat that IMO. I will someday own a mustang or two...it wont replace my camaro...But i will own one.
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I feel much like you William.... I think anti-Mustang and anti-Camaro talk is ignorance. There is things I like about the Camaro and things I like about the Mustang. Honestly, I probably like them about the same. I've owned 5.0 Mustangs in the past, I currently own two IROCs now....... and I'm looking for a '86-'88 Mustang GT or LX coupe 5.0 to add to my collection.

I favor mid to late 80s Mustang GTs and IROC Camaros, I guess because that is what was out when I was in high school and first getting into cars.... I'll never forget when I was 16 years old and a buddy of mine got a brand new 1987 Mustang GT (rich parents....bastard...LOL!!!!) man, I'll never forget the power that thing had as it pinned me to the seat as he was jamming the gears. Couldn't buy one then, but now I can. Actually I'm going to be selling my '87 5.7 TPI IROC and replacing it with a '86-'88 white with T-tops GT (if I can find one), I'm keeping my '90 G92 IROC 5-speed.... I'll never get rid of that baby.

~John

Gotta love that G92, it was walking that LT1, pretty damn amazing for a 305. John, that white iroc is badass, one of kind.

Let's put it this way....I would love to run a stock Cobra, and I would probably pull on one, but not by much. I have $3000 into my Trans Am.
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What exactly have you done for $3,000?

Why would they make an SS if the Z28's are faster?
I don't think your right with that one...SS have to be faster.
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The SS is faster than a Z-28... Thats why GM ships Z-28s to SLP... to turn them into SS Camaro, which are faster than a basic Z-28.

Explains why the irocs were rated 10 less hp than the vettes back when both had the L98. Still using the same old techniques i guess.
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The Vettes had L98 aluminum heads and the IROCs had L98 cast iron heads.

Explains why the irocs were rated 10 less hp than the vettes back when both had the L98. Still using the same old techniques i guess.
======================================
The Vettes had L98 aluminum heads and the IROCs had L98 cast iron heads.

Damn, i thought the L98 in both fire's and camaro's were aluminum heads? Learn something new everyday.

Let's put it this way....I would love to run a stock Cobra, and I would probably pull on one, but not by much. I have $3000 into my Trans Am.
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What exactly have you done for $3,000?
Full exhuast, headers back.
Cam and valvetrain upgrades.
Intake, lid, 85mm MAF, ported TB.
Made 376.8 RWHP and 370.8 ft/pounds before porting the TB. Should be right at 380 RWHP now.

Why would they make an SS if the Z28's are faster?
I don't think your right with that one...SS have to be faster.
======================================
The SS is faster than a Z-28... Thats why GM ships Z-28s to SLP... to turn them into SS Camaro, which are faster than a basic Z-28.
Not really. Most LS1 cars, including C5 Corvettes average around 305-310 at the wheels stock.
This arguement is like saying my WS.6 is faster than a regular Trans Am. It isn't. It comes down to driver.

Isn't anyone going to bring the '05 LS2 GTO into this thread...?

i think the cobra is still a little too fast for the ls2 gto

Full exhuast, headers back.
Cam and valvetrain upgrades.
Intake, lid, 85mm MAF, ported TB.
Made 376.8 RWHP and 370.8 ft/pounds before porting the TB. Should be right at 380 RWHP now.
-------------------------------------------------
Very Nice........

i think the cobra is still a little too fast for the ls2 gto
------------------------------------------------
I agree...... just thought It would be cool to talk about the LS2 GTO. One day I will own one of those sumbitches...LOL!!!!!

All the LS1 Z-28s that I've seen dyno'd is doing about 285hp at the wheels.....(give or take) and the SS and WS6s are doing around the 300hp mark.

~John

i think someone said an ss cant hit 12's stock, ill have to be on the other side of that line, we have a few ss camaro's that run high 11's and one low 12's with just cutouts and a lid i beleave thats all they have done. no bottle no cam nothing much. one only has pipes and suspension work. i also seen cobra's s/c ed at the track run low 12's and 13's. and whoever said the z and the ss were about the same is correct. even the slp ss cars dont run any better then the rest of the ls1 cars. u pay for looks and gm saying an extra 10 or 15 hp..lets be real. anyone who knows about building anything cars boats planes, will know as long as man has to sit on that line and put parts together in the factory no 2 cars will run the same or be built 100% the same. 3 of us can have 02 ss cars built on the same day brand new never been owned, throw them on a dyno and all 3 cars will put down different numbers. it is what it is, a ss is a flashy z28 thats it. if u dont beleave me we have 3 in the shop right now and a few z's, ill invite u to tampa to see whats in all cars, not a big difference!

I know that a mostly stock LS1 wont run in the 11s...The Z06 with the LS6 was barely getting into the 11s... Those cars have mods believe me. The fastest i've seen at my high density altitude track is a 13.4 outa a 02 WS6 with a bad ass driver. LS1's are notorious for having "factory freaks." That's the case with the new cobra as well too. I've driven quite a few and I could easily tell which was fastest.

Also the talk about "well if GM put a supercharger...blah blah blah." Guess what, GM didn't. They could have gone the same way as ford and done small displacement and make up for it with a blower but they didn't. GM i feel did the smart thing and increased disp and achieved better mileage that ANY mustang ever has and has performance to boot. The 03-04 cobar was going after the Z06 and i think they did pretty well as far as straight line performance goes. The LS2 GTO is pretty sweet and i'm looking forward to taking one on a testdrive here shortly. I'll have to post my feelings about it.

William

yeah i agree i never bitch about the supercharger the cobra has, it doesnt matter to me if people get all bent outta shape about it maybe they should fix the problem and s/c their camaro. people need to remember, they needed that blower to catch up and to keep up, they still havent made a car whithout bolt ons to run down a ls1and they had 3 bonus years to do so. ill also agree that some ls1 cars have came from the factory nice as hell maybe they have 2 of them. the one i know for a fact only has the electric exhaust cut outs, a lid, and some gears im almost 100% sure thats it. the other like i said looked to be stock, didnt sound that different but maybe he had something.

LS1 F-Body = LS2 GTO in my opinion. The GTO is a nicer car to drive, and will run a low 13 at a good track stock, just like the lighter F-Body.

I know for a fact that I can beat stock LS6 Z06's, at least from a roll. I hung with one before my cam install, and he had exhaust. From what I understand, the LS2 C6 Corvette is about the same as the LS6 Z06 Corvette in straight line performance and overall wheel power.

LS1.....about 300-310 RWHP stock (M6 cars, autos dyno less)
LS6.....about 340-350 RWHP stock (also M6 cars)
LS2.....about 335-345 RWHP stock (M6)

Either way, that is great power from a smallblock. Even more so for a stock car. My car with lid and catback made 320/333. Not bad for $350 in mods.


And by the way....Philly RS, gears will liven up an F-Body BIGTIME. Auto I assume??

I've also heard that some 02 SS's and WS6's slipped out with LS6 heads and cam...Not sure on the validity of that but the fast WS6 i was talking about earlier in this thread dyno'd a 100% stock (not even a lid!!!) 346hp corrected (M6 car). I think the LSX series engines are amazing with the power they put out for the cubic inches and retain amazing gas mileage with the 6 speed.

William

Last time I checked my mileage....I got 27.4 MPG on the highway. Not bad at all for an untuned cam'd car. Best I ever got was 31 MPG.

Some of the 2002 F-Body's slipped out with the LS6 block. Not sure about any differences in cam and valvetrain. Could be. That might explain some of these crazy high dyno's. Of course, dyno's are really only good for tuning. Run it...that is the true determining factor.
Too bad I can't drive, and I am stuck on this mountain. :icon16:

The Yenko Camaro ran in the deep 11s and I'm pretty sure it'd kill a Cobra. The question is would it fall under stock or a production Camaro. I think it can because Saleen Mustangs are seen that way so the Yenko can be seen the same.

I'd also like to say a thing or two. I don't want to start a war here or anything just point some things out.
The LS-1 people say Ford had to put a S/C on the Cobra just to keep up, what about the Mach 1? Mach 1s are known for keeping up with LS-1s and they're N/A.
Also, if Ford were to put their 6.0L V-10 that's N/A and makes 600 hp I'm sure GM fans would be bitching because it has two extra cylinders over the LS-2. They weren't saying anything when the LS-1s had a 1.1L advantage over the Cobras though.
Also, the 5.4 in the '00 Cobra R was N/A and made 385 hp, almost as much as a LS-6. I think Ford doesn't have to put a S/C on but they do because who doesn't like factory S/C?

well ill tell you this, if ford puts out a engine that comes close to a mach one or that 6.0 in that lovable mustang ill tell u this, they wont be as cheap as they are. the only reason they killed gm when it came to sells is because they build their cars cheap...that means cheaper parts, and you give up a bit of power doing so. people said the camaro was expensive, but look at how much better of a car they were. its like they say u get what u pay for, if ford builds a car to match ls1 power or greater, then they will pay 30 g's or more for that car and ford wont do that.

I think if Pontiac wanted to have a fast performance car they should have stuck to the T/A. Instead they made the GTO.....
personally, between the Gto and the new Mustang, id take the Mustang for sure.

well ill tell you this, if ford puts out a engine that comes close to a mach one or that 6.0 in that lovable mustang ill tell u this, they wont be as cheap as they are. the only reason they killed gm when it came to sells is because they build their cars cheap...that means cheaper parts, and you give up a bit of power doing so. people said the camaro was expensive, but look at how much better of a car they were. its like they say u get what u pay for, if ford builds a car to match ls1 power or greater, then they will pay 30 g's or more for that car and ford wont do that.

I see what you are saying, but the bulk of mustang sales always were and continue to be the lowly V6. I think for will continue to build different performance packages to satisfy the enthusiast, but its always going to be the V6 that carries mustang sales. I think that there will be better and better performing mustangs now that they are working with a better base. Performance and sales don't necessarily go hand in hand. I am sure that if Camaro comes back out with a competitively priced V6 and V8 model, maybe differentiate more between the SS and Z28 to make prices vary more with performance, they will come back and give the mustang some competition on the sales floor.

Too bad GM plain out sucks under Lutz. Even if we got a new 2007 Camaro, it would probably be uglier than sin.
GM needs shaken up with the head guys. Something needs to change.

I agree with you Mr. Luos

i plan on beating some s/ced cobra's when my baby is running... or at least hope too...

about the whole thing w/ ford doing alot w/ less displacement... it really is all with the design if u ask me... ford has been using DOHC 4 valve per cylinder engines... while gm has been using 2 valve pushrod engines... gm has been doing that to stay faithful to their roots i suppose. but if u think about it, when gm did use the DOHC 4valve design they produced 400hp in the lt5 zr1 corvettes, and that was in 1990... i hope i make sense, i'm tired. my only point i'm making is that each automaker chooses its own path. gm has been going big displacement, pushrod (doing quite well at it i might add). ford shrank displacement and using newer designs to get their power...

there really is no reason to put gm vs ford, or camaro vs mustang... when it comes down to it, every car is different and it that particular car that races. a particular '02 ss camaro may very well beat a particular s/c cobra... that doesn't mean that all will.

races are between individual cars, not entire production lines... i guess that's waht i'm tryin to say. still very tired...

btw, camaro owns mustang :rofl:

I agree with the above statement and I would take a GTO over a new freaking Mustang because those things are ugly and everywhere just like the past ones.

I like the new GTO alot! I'd take it over the current GT but let Ford have a year or two with the new platform and make the GT500 and hopefully a more "friendly" priced GT or Mach or something and I'd love to have one.

William

I'd still take the GTO something about them in my mind screams out power.

That's not entirely in your mind....I think it's the badge that says 6.0 on the back and the 400hp advertised spec :)

William

No, just when I look at a 1st gen Camaro, I know it doesnt have a crapload of hp, but it looks mean and powerful, just like the GTO.

Its always been Camaro vs Mustang, and always will be
Whether you agree or not

Well actually its Camaro Vs. Mustang Vs. Challenger.

Ok then.....might as well throw in the T/A then too

Stock ls1 camaros and firebirds just can't compete with the 03+ Cobras... Sorry GM guys but it's just the truth. And don't take my comments wrong, I am a fan of both. In my opinion, were entering a great age for horsepower, with the mighty GT500 and 500 horsepower ZO6 on the horizon. It's going to be fun times when those two bump heads on the street...

Well since the T/A is in there, might as well as add the Cougar and 'Cuda, since they were pony cars too.

Way too give no opinion....lol
Which do you like better then, Mustang/ Camaro,
You have to have a favorite, even if you like both

Well since the T/A is in there, might as well as add the Cougar and 'Cuda, since they were pony cars too.
Crap, might as well put in the bmw 2002's since they were just about killing everything on the road

Challenger wasn't the competition for the camaro/mustang battle. Challenger was the bigger actual "muscle car" not the "pony car" crowd...However i like the Challenger the most of all the old performance cars (ie stangs,camaro,cuda,etc..etc...). I was kidding with the 6.0 GTO comment, i know you meant the looks of the car, in traditional pontiac styling to make the car "different" from the previous year or older model they cut some holes and called it good.

What is the transam being thrown into? The 04 cobra v. SS camaro battle? Transam is essentially the same as the SS with near identical performance.

Now it really is no longer the camaro v. mustang battle...Not until GM gets it head out of it's ass and does something right for a change...

William

Challenger wasn't the competition for the camaro/mustang battle. Challenger was the bigger actual "muscle car" not the "pony car" crowd...However i like the Challenger the most of all the old performance cars (ie stangs,camaro,cuda,etc..etc...). I was kidding with the 6.0 GTO comment, i know you meant the looks of the car, in traditional pontiac styling to make the car "different" from the previous year or older model they cut some holes and called it good.

What is the transam being thrown into? The 04 cobra v. SS camaro battle? Transam is essentially the same as the SS with near identical performance.

Now it really is no longer the camaro v. mustang battle...Not until GM gets it head out of it's ass and does something right for a change...

William
No.....now were going Mustang vs. Bmw 2002

straight line or in the corners...i think the Cobra would hand it to just about every BMW i can think of...And if price is still an issue, look at the price difference between the cost of a BMW that could come close, and the cobra...

William

I meant the old 2002 models, not year 2002
But since your going the direction, the new M series, whether 3, 5 will kick the crap out of that mustang or any other

in a straight line 03-04 cobra will own a M3...However i'd rather own an M3 even though they're way overpriced...

William

well i dont know about u guys but i dont see many cobras 03 and newer on the streets, and from what i saw they are a bit pricy as well. i dont think compairing a special edition mustang to a z or an ss is fair playing field. i would say v6 to v6, gt to z, ss to roush, and the cobra has nothing to compete with...some will say they went after the vet on that one but others will argue that down, but if u wanted to go the next camaro up then u will be looking at those 427 special editions and that rich mans zl1. they own cobras all day. is it fair to comair those cars to it? i think ford played the game a bit better than gm because they really made more specialty cars than gm did that a adverage guy could afford. so now were stuck with fighting off cobras with a ss or a z (same car). add a few mods of your own and u would own that cobra, but this goes back to last months statement...its all about which driver has the deepest pockets!

My opinion is that the Cobra is a faster car period. We can go on and on about, "what about sprayed and cammed ls1 or kenne bell or whipple charged Cobras" all day long, really its a matter of who has the most money to spend on moding their cars. Out of the two, ls1 vs Cobra, I'd take the snake...

pretty much short and sweet of what i said, i dont think its comairable but we do it anyway, but the bottom line will remain as this... a regular gt mustang till this day still hasnt peaked at 300hp it is what it is. they are the slower car, but in the bonus round they do have a few special mustangs that can get-r done! this time next year i wont care much what the hell the other guys driving, if i have to put 10 grand into my motor to get what i want i will but when its all said and done im trying to be damn near close to the top of the food chain, damn a vet, or a 4th gen z, and any mustang on the street, and do i need to say damn imports...rs will stand for respect. i got nothing else to spend my money on so im going for the gusto.

Challenger wasn't the competition for the camaro/mustang battle. Challenger was the bigger actual "muscle car" not the "pony car" crowd...However i like the Challenger the most of all the old performance cars (ie stangs,camaro,cuda,etc..etc...).

William

You think so? I was reading around and muscle car club said that the Challenger was the last one to get in on the pony wars at 1970. Also about the new Mustang GT, I was surprised that it only went up to 300 HP, pitiful if you ask me since Chevy already ran and laid down the road in the late 90s.

You think so? I was reading around and muscle car club said that the Challenger was the last one to get in on the pony wars at 1970. Also about the new Mustang GT, I was surprised that it only went up to 300 HP, pitiful if you ask me since Chevy already ran and laid down the road in the late 90s.

It's like ford is behind, but at the same time ahead.

Well I think it's always been Camaro vs. Mustang in the V6 and then Z28 Vs GT with the 8s. The other higher options like SS and Mach 1 or whatever dont really count because they go way higher in what they do with stuff. So for me Ford is always eating Chevy's dust.

LOL Cobras overpriced? I was looking at 03-04 cobras stickered in the low 30s...What were SS's and WS6's stickered at? Saying the rousch is better competition? Those things are WAY overpriced. Yes i do believe that the 03-04 cobra will own a M3 of the same year in a straight line. They're fast but not as fast as the Cobras.

This whole thread reads to me like a bunch of whiners crying about loosing the camaro and making up for it by putting down the car that's still selling...Yet another reason why i consider myself a first gen guy more than a camaro guy...

William

lol will you are a camaro guy no matter what gen you have.

Seems to me that the main criteria to being a "camaro" guy is to hate mustangs...Which i do not. I like pretty much all mustangs. One of my favorite cars is an old mustang and one of my favorite new cars is a mustang.

William

just wait for the 06 Z06 and run 11's off the showroom floor, and you will have no problems smoking even some moded 03/04 cobras

didnt know they were only priced in the low 30's i was thinking more of 35-39 grand, but i did consider them affordable to the adverage joe, as for the ss and ws6 thats why i didnt have neither of them they were high 20's low 30's themselves, but u also have to look at what kind of power u were getting out of those cars at that time. never the less i couldnt afford them then and i still cant, so ill take my 4 grand car and make it into a better car than them both and doing so i wont even spend half of what either car cost. cant knock ford because they are still selling cars and we arent, but till i die ill stick with the facts, they are playing a came of catch-up

yep an 06 Z06 will smoke a 03-04 cobra...But will it smoke the new GT500 in a straight line (corners i KNOW it will). The GT500 will cost less and run similar stock times and have the ability to be modded MUCH easier. Chevy was having problems getting the Z06 up to 500hp. I agree to an extent that ford is "playing catch up" but in their defense i think ford is producing an affordable fun car that the market will be willing to pay for.

William

I like Mustangs and have a Camaro....
I have to disagree with the same year Cobra/ M3
those Germans know how to make cars....lol
The point I want to make is Mustang has too many models out, V6, GT, Mach1, Roush, Saleen, Cobra. No wonder they sell more cars than Camaro. It's ridiculas, I probably still didnt name them all.....

Ford doesn't produce the saleens and roushs. Ford offers V6, GT, Mach 1, and Cobra. 4 models which hit the market right where they need to. Disagree all you want with the M3 comment but i've seen M3's in action in a straight line and they're good but not great. I'd say the better race would be an SS v. a M3...

William

see thats what i try to explain to folks, the market is a fun sporty car that performse, both cars fit the bill, one is slighty faster than the other, one is way better priced than the other, has many options to pick from and the key, are still making them, people want new cars not used and right now ford is filling that bill. the gto its ok, 2 of my friends have one i still say grand prix on drugs....all those pontiac cars look just adamn like! not for me, but they are impressive indeed. as much as i go against ford they arent the real problem. its imports, they are killing everyone. they have great power, and are usualy cheap, and when tuned can kill all demestic cars. being a old tuner i hate to say, but i smoked more camaro z's and mustangs in my old gst eclipse. ill look real hard for my old pics but ill tell u what, it had over 300hp and that was in the mid 90's. i was laying the smack down in va beach on alot of fools. the game is about who can make the cheaper car and still perform, ford and the fart cans are doing it, meanwhile we have the 210hp cobolt. makes u wounder...

Ford doesn't produce the saleens and roushs. Ford offers V6, GT, Mach 1, and Cobra. 4 models which hit the market right where they need to. Disagree all you want with the M3 comment but i've seen M3's in action in a straight line and they're good but not great. I'd say the better race would be an SS v. a M3...

William
About the M3 You have your opinion, I have mine. and enough said about that
Whatever about the saleens and roushes, their still a Mustang whether its covered in Saleen decals or not

LOL woohoo DSM!!!! JK

You've heard some jokes about DSMs havnt you? If you hadn't here is one.

DSM...If it isn't broke...You are.

lol
William

Whats DSM?

His GST is a DSM, it's the turbo usually AWD cars from mitsu (It's Diamond Star Motors). I know we both have our opinions on the M3. If you read my first response i'd say i'd rather have a M3, but M3's are in the mid 13s stock...Cobra is faster than that. That's not opinion, that's facts.

William

You still have your opinion, because no average joe is going to run that Cobra in the 12 range :smile:

those other 2 ponies u mentioned cost a grip! my best friend had a 99 roush i think it was he was paying out the ying yang for that thing, and i liked my gt better his car.(yes i use to own a mustang thats why i hate them so much) and the saleen i only knew a few guys back in va who owned them, they were fast but i think one guy told me he payed like 50grand for that damn thing. thats nuts...50 grand im in a damn hummer or a accura, bmw, benz,tahoe,caddy, go big escalade xlt. thats alot for a damn car!

I agree...thats alot. What year was your GT

His GST is a DSM, it's the turbo usually AWD cars from mitsu (It's Diamond Star Motors). I know we both have our opinions on the M3. If you read my first response i'd say i'd rather have a M3, but M3's are in the mid 13s stock...Cobra is faster than that. That's not opinion, that's facts.

William
Hey Will69camaro....I agree with the M3....if and only if they were getting their top times....im tired of debating :iceslolan

03, i didnt like it at all, i like my v6 camaro way better, i sold it to my room mate....she loves the damn thing...figures, its a chick car anyway. the sad thing is she wont even race me her exact word are my car is half vet, she just knows how much money i dumped into it, and when she rides with me i keep her pined against the seats, i love it.

03, i didnt like it at all, i like my v6 camaro way better, i sold it to my room mate....she loves the damn thing...figures, its a chick car anyway. the sad thing is she wont even race me her exact word are my car is half vet, she just knows how much money i dumped into it, and when she rides with me i keep her pined against the seats, i love it.
Wow and thats a 6 cylinder?
You must have Corvette something...lol :lol: Very nice, looks and can back it up.

ill tell u what it was....the guys where im sposored at all kept ragging me about selling it and getting a ls1. they all said putting money into a 6 was a waist, ill tell u this.... when u are sitting at a light and some dude pulls up next to u the y look at u check out the car and the last thing they do is take a peek of your badges, then they wanna rev when they see rs. i got sick of that so i built something that would make them wanna catch up 2 me and ask whats in that... and im telling u the truth out of 20 cars...mustangs and imports when im at the light they wanna race, i purge the system then they look like oh sh*t, race over. 6 people may have ran me after that. most of my races are against guys in my club just to see how i compair to them. keep in mind they all drive big boy stuff 400hp up to 900. vets, camaros,trans ams, 2 vipers, and some rich guy with a damn lamorghini (i know i spelled that all wrong. i just wanted to get a v6 some respect, its bad when a 4 banger gets more props than a 6...i didnt get that at all so i made her fast

Whats your 1/4 mile?

it hasnt been done for more than a month we got her up and running in time for the f-body gathering, the weekend before we left was battle of the car clubs in bradington i was supposed to go but none of us went because nobody wanted to risk breaking something before the trip, so she hasnt been timed on the track. dyno times mean next to crap so i never posted them, before spray she did a bit over 250. never sprayed because now i want a ls1 and i wont risking breaking anything(it was built to handle at least a 400 shot) but stuff happens and its worth more working than broke lol.i do wanna see what my money payed for so i may be risking it real soon. guys like xeno and rs i know dont wanna hear that because im giving them first crack at the engine when i swap

Sweet

Wow, sounds like you've done a crapload to your car philly. I get what you're trying to do and it's be different because not many people stay with their six.

yeah i did what i wanted to do now im gonna do something abit harder and people will put it down, but many will see and understand what im gonna do. its ls1 time.

There is a local guy with a 6 banger firebird with lots of engine wor in i think he hit 13s all motor but not positive.

William

there is a guy here in tampa who built 2 of the fastest v6 camaros in the nation back in the 90's. the guys at the shop told me he was doing the same thing around 97,98. i was floored that i knew this guy, he helped with my car. he was the only one at first that thought it was a good idea for me to build her, never once told me what he had done before, others had to let me in on that. back then im sure that was a big deal to get a 6 running like that, hell now and days its still nice as hell, and all engine is even better

Are you sure the Ls1 will be faster than your 6 :naughty:

i hope so lol, that would suck

Wow.....I go to work, and this thread blows up even more.

03/04 Cobra > LS1 F-Body > M3
At least in straight line performance. M3 does it with a 6 cylinder though, and out of those cars, I would take the M3. But in straight line....

I know of a guy in Jersey that runs 12's with his V6 Camaro. Bottle. And a great setup to hook. If I could ever run off this mountain, and get any kinda of launch, I would be running 12's on street tires. Of course....would. :icon16:

Back to the Mustangs things....while GM was releasing the LS1 into the F-Body's, Ford had nothing that could run with them at the time. 2002 was the last of the F-Body's, and in 2003, Ford showed up Corvettes with the Cobra. A stock C5 isn't even competition for the 03/04 Cobras. The Z06 would barely edge out the Cobra.

I read someone posted something about the new 2006 Z06 wasting Cobra's.....
Let's see.....Cobra = $33,000......Z06 = $80,000
Add $2000 in mods, and a Cobra would run about even with the new Z06.
03/04 Cobras have been known to hit 500 RWHP with $1200-1300 in mods. They are SICK.
I love old school mustangs, but never did get into the late model Mustangs. The 2005 is even uglier. But Ford has a great powertrain.

If I wanted a car for overall straight line performance, I would sell my Trans Am and get a Cobra.

It blew up alright...all because of me!!!!!
Anyway, I like the new Mustangs....I also correct myself with the GTO...it is darn sweet.
I like WS6 as well....anyone know HP on those?

Back to the Mustangs things....while GM was releasing the LS1 into the F-Body's, Ford had nothing that could run with them at the time.

The Mustang was cheaper though than the Camaro and that turned out to be the key to victory.
Also, I heard several people in this thread say the Mustang beat the Camaro because it has more options than the Camaro like the V6, GT, Cobra, Saleen, ect. This isn't the case at all. The V6 Mustang was what did the Camaro in. I think it was either in '99 or '00 V6 Mustang sales out numbered total Camaro and Firebird sales.

I read someone posted something about the new 2006 Z06 wasting Cobra's.....
Let's see.....Cobra = $33,000......Z06 = $80,000
Add $2000 in mods, and a Cobra would run about even with the new Z06.
03/04 Cobras have been known to hit 500 RWHP with $1200-1300 in mods. They are SICK.

7.0L ZO6 vs. 4.6L Cobra
I sure as hell hope the ZO6 could win with that liter advantage and price. Anyway, I'm curious to see how the new GT-500s do against it and if they'll run with them. Personally, I think Chevy needs to explore into DOHC engines again. Just think what a DOHC LS-1 could do.

I love old school mustangs, but never did get into the late model Mustangs. The 2005 is even uglier. But Ford has a great powertrain.

I wouldn't call the '05 ugly. If you love old school Mustangs then you should like the newer ones, oh well. Ford does have a good powertrain but Chevy's is pretty awesome too.

If I wanted a car for overall straight line performance, I would sell my Trans Am and get a Cobra.

:lol: or a funny car

WS.6 = SS

Hell, not even sure what mine was rated at. I think it was 320/325 or something like that. I will look it up....

Mine dyno'd at 320 RWHP and 333 ft/pounds with lid and catback.


Okay....
320 HP for 99-00 WS.6's
325 HP for 01-02 WS.6's
I believe they were rated at 335 ft/pounds. Not 100% on that.

nice

The Mustang was cheaper though than the Camaro and that turned out to be the key to victory.
Also, I heard several people in this thread say the Mustang beat the Camaro because it has more options than the Camaro like the V6, GT, Cobra, Saleen, ect. This isn't the case at all. The V6 Mustang was what did the Camaro in. I think it was either in '99 or '00 V6 Mustang sales out numbered total Camaro and Firebird sales.
You know the funny part about that....
GM spent FOUR times the money on marketing for the new GTO than they ever did on the 98+ F-Body's. Guess which sold more. :lol:
7.0L ZO6 vs. 4.6L Cobra
I sure as hell hope the ZO6 could win with that liter advantage and price. Anyway, I'm curious to see how the new GT-500s do against it and if they'll run with them. Personally, I think Chevy needs to explore into DOHC engines again. Just think what a DOHC LS-1 could do.
Eh....
That goes into the displacement versus boost arguement. Both work to make power.
We never saw a DOHC LS1, because GM was outrunning most cars with a basic pushrod motor.
GM likes to stick to a cheaper method. Pushrod motors are plain out cheaper. And they are still making the power they need to be. I don't see GM moving from them anytime soon.

Either way.....Ford appears to be running the domestic performance car show right now. Corvette is up there, but for the price....Cobra.

i think the new mustangs are butt ugly, the first few days they were out i was at the dealership with my buddy who wanted to trade in his 01 for the new model and i thought this is different, as the days went on i gravitated towards the ugly end with that car, not sleek at all, the ws6 is bad ass and for some reason its rated a bit faster than the camaro dont know why...and till this day the coolest fact is that a turbo trans am i think that was 89 is running what an ls1 car is doing today. i think thats bad ass, we been killen everyone for the past 15 yrs...now thats whats up

If only GM kept the muscle......now its all about the Cobalt?? Whats a cobalt anyway?

If only GM kept the muscle......now its all about the Cobalt?? Whats a cobalt anyway?

Well if you see Dodge and all their luck with the SRT-4 you'd see why Chevy is interested in this market. I think it's a good idea because Motortrend found the Cobalt to be better than the SRT and I'm glad to see that.

Anyway, a Cobalt is a cross between a Cob and an Alt.

Thanks....that explains it....lol

Whats a cobalt anyway?

I just found out today from, of all places, the movie Ghostbusters 2!

Anyway, Cobalt is an element. I know it was eating you up inside bag but you can now rest in peace.

I just found out today from, of all places, the movie Ghostbusters 2!

Anyway, Cobalt is an element. I know it was eating you up inside bag but you can now rest in peace.
THANK YOU!!!!!
I was about to go to and jump some Chevy dealership manager and beat it out of him......you saved me a trip. :iceslolan

my room-mate says cobolt is a color too lol, she said its called cobolt blue...im glad shes a chick because thats a bit feminine like to know :iceslolan

Next time I buy a female something ill make sure its colored cobalt blue.....Thanks for the tip Philly RS
GIRLS BE RUNNING AT ME NOW!!!!

Im going for 400 tonight.....

lmao thats funny as hell, im sure u will impress some chick with that bit of knowledge! :greddy2:

my room-mate says cobolt is a color too lol, she said its called cobolt blue...im glad shes a chick because thats a bit feminine like to know :iceslolan


Actually Cobalt is an element like said and it is blue in color. So for many years and still to this day most blue paints and dyes where made from Cobalt.

So Cobalt blue kinda becomes reptitive cause like 99% of ya blues have some cobalt in them.

Man....so much info on Cobalt...thanks guys i think im going to publish a book...

To answer people when asking "why chevy isn't using a DOHC engine."

When Chevy was coming up with the C5 (1997) they took some engineers to a test track and had two identical C5's one with what is the LS1 and the other with a DOHC V8 and weren't told which was which. After driving both it was unanimous that the favored car was the LS1. Stick with what works and the LS1 is a great engine, but ford has a good thing with the boosted DOHCs...

William

now gt stang is a mod who knows his colors lol

So how does the cobalt beat out the srt-4? they run like 13's stock right?

The articles i have seen place them almost identical with the SRT being VERY slightly faster...

William

Knowing that Cobalt is a color isnt femine I knew that because of Halo, my color for Master Chief was cobalt :)

hell naw, i didnt even notice that on halo lmao.....thats sweet!

Challenger wasn't the competition for the camaro/mustang battle. Challenger was the bigger actual "muscle car" not the "pony car" crowd...
======================================
The Challenger (and its cousin 'Cuda) were pony cars that competed against the Mustang, Javelin and Camaro in the SCCA Trans Am series.... you must be thinking of the Charger as the "bigger actual Muscle Car"...

~John

So how does the cobalt beat out the srt-4? they run like 13's stock right?

???????

Wow i didn't know the challenger was a "pony" car, i figured since it was HUGE like the chevelle and GTO it would be in the "muscle crowd." Personally i still refer to my camaro as a muscle car...

William

well i dont know about u guys but i dont see many cobras 03 and newer on the streets, and from what i saw they are a bit pricy as well. i dont think compairing a special edition mustang to a z or an ss is fair playing field. i would say v6 to v6, gt to z, ss to roush, and the cobra has nothing to compete with...some will say they went after the vet on that one but others will argue that down, but if u wanted to go the next camaro up then u will be looking at those 427 special editions and that rich mans zl1. they own cobras all day. is it fair to comair those cars to it? i think ford played the game a bit better than gm because they really made more specialty cars than gm did that a adverage guy could afford. so now were stuck with fighting off cobras with a ss or a z (same car). add a few mods of your own and u would own that cobra, but this goes back to last months statement...its all about which driver has the deepest pockets!

Once Test drove an 02 Cobra (I think it was an 02) had 18,000 miles on it and they wanted 36,000. You can keep your friggin Cobra, my 70 will whoop it's ass any day of the week, cost less than half as much, and looks about 5,000,000,000,000 times cooler.

I'm with Philly on this one, Cobra is a step up from any normal Camaro produced. It's like a 12 gauge versus a 10 gauge. Put a choke in the 12 and THEN you've got somewhat of a comparison.

Couldn't have been an 02...must have been an 01 if it wasn't supercharged...I can say i know a 04 cobra is faster than a LT1/T56 swapped first gen...I found this out in a highway race a week or so ago...

William

Lol, that's one way to learn some thing new, that's for sure.

Once I get things sorted out with mine, we'll see what the deal is... have a buddy a 04 cobra that's supercharged (smaller pulley), new intake and 3.73's who's itching to race.

If the guy who I bought my maro off of ran "low 11's" with a lame cylinder, I'd like to see what it'll do when everything's proper.

Couldn't have been an 02...must have been an 01 if it wasn't supercharged...I can say i know a 04 cobra is faster than a LT1/T56 swapped first gen...I found this out in a highway race a week or so ago...

William

Don't remember if it was supercharged or not, smoked it up for about 3 miles... sales guy said he was bored.:smokin: All I know is that for a year old car (assuming) with 18,000 miles on it and they wanted $36,000 (ahem FIRM)... What did the damned thing go for new??? 45,000? Way to much money for me.

Agreed. I'll take my 4k camaro and put 10k of parts on it to smoke your ass all day long, thank you very much.

That sounds like a supercharged on. They went for 33k sticker for a hardtop where i'm at and 37-39 for a convertible. I'd take a supercharged cobra over any camaro besides first gens...

William

I thought I'd put up prices for everybody here. So you know I got these at MSN in case you want to check them out :thumbsup: I couldn't find anything about the SS but isn't it a little more because of the hood, spoiler, and other options?

2003 SVT Mustang Cobra

Convertible Trims

SVT Cobra Convertible
Kelley Blue Book $27,900 - $29,500
MSRP $37,835
Invoice Price $34,819

SVT Cobra Convertible - 10th Anniv.
N/A
$39,275
$36,115

Coupe Trims

SVT Cobra Coupe
$25,500 - $26,900
$33,460
$30,839

SVT Cobra Coupe - 10th Anniv.
N/A
$34,935
$32,166

Engine and Power

4.6L
390 hp @ 6000 RPM
390 lb-tq @ 3500 RPM

2002 Z28 Camaro

Z28 Coupe
$15,700 - $16,700
$22,830
$20,889

Z28 Convertible
$18,650 - $19,850
$29,925
$27,381

Engine and Power

5.7L
310 hp @ 5200 RPM
340 lb-tq @ 4000 RPM

2002 Chevrolet Camaro SS 1/4 mile Drag Racing timeslip:
1/4 Mile ET: 13.500
1/4 Mile MPH: 105.250
1/8 Mile ET: 9.160
1/8 Mile MPH: 83.180
0-60 Foot ET: 2.360
Temperature F: 58.0
Car Make: Chevrolet
Car Model: Camaro
Car Type: SS
Car Year: 2002

Link here: http://www.dragtimes.com/Chevrolet-Camaro-Timeslip-2302.html

2003 Ford Mustang SVT COBRA 1/4 mile Drag Racing timeslip:
1/4 Mile ET: 12.900
1/4 Mile MPH: 112.000
1/8 Mile ET: 0.000
1/8 Mile MPH: 0.000
0-60 Foot ET: 2.050
Temperature F: 86.0
Car Make: Ford
Car Model: Mustang
Car Type: SVT COBRA
Car Year: 2003

Link here: http://www.dragtimes.com/Ford-Mustang-Timeslip-2689.html

yep an 06 Z06 will smoke a 03-04 cobra...But will it smoke the new GT500 in a straight line (corners i KNOW it will). The GT500 will cost less and run similar stock times and have the ability to be modded MUCH easier. Chevy was having problems getting the Z06 up to 500hp. I agree to an extent that ford is "playing catch up" but in their defense i think ford is producing an affordable fun car that the market will be willing to pay for.

William

sorry comin into the convo late, but i wanted to point out that the gt500 is in now way shape or form cheaper than the '06 z06 vette. oh and gm didn't have much trouble getting 500hp out of the ls7, they get far more hp like that and get it to run 24hrs of lemans w/ no problems at all, gm never has had hp trouble lol

i wanted to point out that the gt500 is in now way shape or form cheaper than the '06 z06 vette

The '06 ZO6 Corvette is priced at what, $60-$80,000? The GT-500 will be priced at around $40,000. It looks like it'll be cheaper to me.

So my question is, is there any stock Camaro that could even compete. Maybe the SS but I want diff opinions
======================================
No....

I have a buddy with an '04 Cobra, stock he ran a 12.14... He has added Basanni Exhaust, smaller supercharger pulley which almost doubled his boost, and a few other mods..... and is now hitting 11.60s...

~John

stock 12.14? 1/4 mile? :lol2: what are you smoking no way no how

It's projected to be around 40K, I doubt it, I really do unless they're going to use some really cheap body stuff, suspension, and all other crap aside from the engine. I'd still go Vette though, too many Stangs in the streets and having GT500 said on my Stang isnt going to make me want a Vette less than a Cobra.

its spose to be under 40k

stock 12.14? 1/4 mile? :lol2: what are you smoking no way no how
Agreed.

12's....yes
12.1....no.

And I can't believe those mods would only shave off half a second. If he really 'doubled the boost,' he would have taken MUCH more off than .5 seconds. A 12.1 ET is for a modified Cobra.

i ran a 12.60 stock, pulleyed and the air snorkle removed i ran 11.6s at 125

i ran a 12.60 stock, pulleyed and the air snorkle removed i ran 11.6s at 125
I LOVE how those cars take to mods. Doesn't take shit to get them REALLY moving.

Yeah, sure do. Simple stuff too.

The '06 ZO6 Corvette is priced at what, $60-$80,000? The GT-500 will be priced at around $40,000. It looks like it'll be cheaper to me.

i don't research ford or anything but i have heard from alot of people who are super interested in the gt500 that those are gonna be 100,000 and up cars... and i'm not calling u a liar, but under 40 grand? they won't do that cuz then too many people would own one, and that is supposed to have a "rich person" kinda ferrari type persona

Are you guys talking about the real GT500, as in the muscle car, or the Ford GT, the supercar?

Are you guys talking about the real GT500, as in the muscle car, or the Ford GT, the supercar?

i meant the ford gt

Ford GT is as expensive as hell man, I agree with your previous post. However, the GT500 should be something retro back to the Supersnake days.

starting msrp on a ford gt is 141,000 like i said, in no way shape or form cheaper than the '06 z06 vette

the z06 is targetted at the ford gt, it will outperform it, for 60,000 less :evillol:

Boo yah man.

Yeah the ford GT supercar is definately more expensive than any corvette (maybe not C5R?) but he is talking about the 06/7 cobra mustang GT500. That car is supposed to be around 40,000 and have a detuned motor from the ford GT, 450hp estimated.

WOW, cant believe how many posts, and how its still open!!!!!! It has to be a record...
Anyway someone on here thinks the GT500 will outperform the Zo6, Thats hard to believe.....

I don't think it will outperform it, I only think that it will be close in the quartermile.

Anyway someone on here thinks the GT500 will outperform the Zo6, Thats hard to believe.....

a couple hundred more dollers should do it if not faster yes i said hundred

Quarter mile yes, cornering no.
Ridge Runner, I was talking stock for stock.

i dont think it will be able to beat the Z06 in niether 1320 or cornering

does anyone know how heavy the new shelby 500 will be?

475hp weighing in at 3600 i beleive, and i'll double check myself cause i know i'm off by a little.

excuse me... 3850lbs at most likely 475hp@6000 rpm
quote from car and driver

Judging by our weather-limited experience at Romeo and our test-track results with the 2003 SVT Mustang Cobra [C/D, June 2002], we concur. Power will be abundant, although O'Connell and his crew were still being cagey about specifics. Pressed on this issue, O'Connell said "between 450 and 500 horsepower—how's that?" Our tech staff warmed up the calculators and figured a forecast of 475 horsepower at 6000 rpm. We may be low.

Big power isn't much good unless it gets to the ground without excessive wheelspin, which is why the production GT500 will have a lot more rear tire than the New York show car, which hunkered over a set of 19-inch wheels wearing 255/45 tires. The initial production run of GT500s will roll on 9.5-by-18-inch wheels with sticky Goodyear Eagle F1 Supercar tires—255/45 front, 285/40 rear.

"We just couldn't get the 255s to hook up," says O'Connell. "Almost every run was going up in smoke."

A pronounced forward weight bias—about 57/43, according to O'Connell—didn't help, either. Part of this is due to increased mass. The supercharged iron-block 5.4 weighs about 175 more pounds than the naturally aspirated 4.6 SOHC 24-valve aluminum V-8 in the Mustang GT. That factor, plus a bigger front-brake package, bigger wheels and tires, and other GT500 package elements, add up to a curb weight projected in the 3850-pound range versus 3575 pounds for the last Mustang GT we tested.

It be a challenge, and also a good race, if the Shelby had $100 MORE IN MODS......Fords need mods you cant blame Chevy for making impossible competition :)

Are you saying VR4 that the 03 Cobra will be faster than the GT500?

no, hell no!! lol

i'm saying the shelby should be a low 12's, and thats what the 03 Z06 does right now(12.4). exept i'm epecting the gt500 to be in the 12.2-12.1 range

Thats pretty frekin low.......
Faster and faster......
soon 13's will be slow!!!!!

Dont know about that, man. 13s being slow? 13s are usually the goal that many people want their cars to goto. The GT500 is definatly knocking on Z06's door though with that HP, but I dont know if it will go faster than it.

man, some guy dynoed his 97 cobra today, i thought it would lay down like 280 or close to it, that damn thing ran 168 i was like wtf. by the last pull i think its best run was a 173 or something. the guy who owned it was pissed, hes a camaro guy, but he got the car for like 6g's and nothing was wrong with the car. i just thought that was wild as hell.

Maybe it was a 97 GT, their power output was less than impressive. The Cobra was supposed to have 300 hp, granted its unlikely it would get that on a dyno, but 45% drivetrain loss is a little high. Something would have to be wrong with any year cobra to dyno at 170 hp.

that sounds like what a GT would have laid down.

Put the cobra against this http://www.supercars.net/cars/314.html and see what happens.

omgomgomg...I've got a chubby.

I say its a far run, 69 of them were made and it was a production model like saleen, rousch is to ford, so bye bye cobra, camaro is and always will be victorious!!

What about this http://www.supercars.net/cars/702.html
against the Camaro ZL1?

What about this http://www.supercars.net/cars/702.html
against the Camaro ZL1?

Well being that both of those pictures are labeled "concept" I guess we'll never really know, but you know RStang... you're in the CAMARO forum now. It's ok, we all know your little orange pony car would have it's ass ripped off in one bite, spit out, stepped on and laughed at. You can admit it now that you're not amongst your FORD boys. :grinyes::lol::iceslolan:lol2:

Well being that both of those pictures are labeled "concept" I guess we'll never really know, but you know RStang... you're in the CAMARO forum now. It's ok, we all know your little orange pony car would have it's ass ripped off in one bite, spit out, stepped on and laughed at. You can admit it now that you're not amongst your FORD boys. :grinyes::lol::iceslolan:lol2:

Well I'm not the only mustang guy who posted in this thread
and you give a bad rep to the camaro crowd as being dicks.
You don't see the guys in the mustang forum acting like a dick to camaro owners do you?

I didn't know it was a sin against the camaro people that if you own a mustang you can't post here :rolleyes: :disappoin

Well I'm not the only mustang guy who posted in this thread and you give a bad rep to the camaro crowd as being dicks.
You don't see the guys in the mustang forum acting like a dick to camaro owners do you?

I didn't know it was a sin against the camaro people that if you own a mustang you can't post here :rolleyes: :disappoin



Awwww c'mon RStang. I'm full of love for everyone. :smooch:

"You don't see the guys in the mustang forum acting like a dick to camaro owners do you?" Big old WTF??? You don't see me going over there and posting links to the BADDEST AMERICAN PRODUCTION CAR EVER do you? I'm all modest staying over here, basking in my knowledge that your guys' cars suck (in my OPINION). You are the one who posted your Boss Mustang link in a Camaro Forum... and can't take the heat??? You need to lighten up.

No sin posting anywhere... just don't expect us to be all "omgomgomgomg your mustang is sooooo hot... I'm developing this tingling sensation... ohhh.... ohhh yeah baby... ohhhhhhhhhh, put it up again.... it's so BIG and FAST!"

Concepts don't count and that thing doesn't even have street tires, i think.

Awwww c'mon RStang. I'm full of love for everyone. :smooch:

"You don't see the guys in the mustang forum acting like a dick to camaro owners do you?" Big old WTF??? You don't see me going over there and posting links to the BADDEST AMERICAN PRODUCTION CAR EVER do you? I'm all modest staying over here, basking in my knowledge that your guys' cars suck (in my OPINION). You are the one who posted your Boss Mustang link in a Camaro Forum... and can't take the heat??? You need to lighten up.

No sin posting anywhere... just don't expect us to be all "omgomgomgomg your mustang is sooooo hot... I'm developing this tingling sensation... ohhh.... ohhh yeah baby... ohhhhhhhhhh, put it up again.... it's so BIG and FAST!"

Link85x posted up a concept camaro and all i did was post a concept mustang and asked how would they both match up.It's not like i made a new thread or anything. What is so bad about what I did? It's in a camaro vs. mustang thread.I wasn't trying to start a war or anything.He posted a badass concept camaro and I posted a badass mustang concept because obviously an 03-04 cobra is no competition to that camaro.

So was it that my simple reply was offending to you that you seen a concept mustang or is it you just don't like people who like or own a mustang?

oh ok... lets kiss and make up.

I personally HATE mustangs. Why???? Just because. I HATE Ford, why? I've owned 3 and they all SUCKED. (Stupid me kept giving them he benefit of the doubt). I know someone that has a nice 04 (Ithink) Cobra that I wouldn't drive if you paid me because I've never driven a ford that didn't fall apart WAY before it's time. (Brand new 03 Supercrew Xmission went with 7500 miles on it, 99 Explorer... what didn't break??? You get the point.) Oh and expensive as hell to fix. I've had 4 Chevy's 2 K1500 Pickups, an 86 Blazer and my Maro, and (with the Maro being the only exception because I just bought it last year and haven't had the time to get it fixed properly yet) my 86 hit 260k before I sold it to a mexican who drove it to mexcio 11 times before it died, and the 2 trucks are still perfect.

Hey, you like them that's great and more power to you.

If you can't see the humor in my post (which is ALL it was) then you need to get some bloodpressure medicine and a hummer. It was just a joke... who's getting offended?

I didn't think that the ZL1 was concept becuase they made 69 of them and actually sold them. Maybe i got the wrong idea about concepts, i thought they were just one of a kind cars, only one made and never sold to the public, and i think i read somewherer that you could actually buy a ZL1 maro for like $100,000. If i had the loot i would buy it, beats buying a damn enzo for $650K.

I think you need to have 500 to sell for it to be a production car. I might be off though.

oh ok... lets kiss and make up.

I personally HATE mustangs. Why???? Just because. I HATE Ford, why? I've owned 3 and they all SUCKED. (Stupid me kept giving them he benefit of the doubt). I know someone that has a nice 04 (Ithink) Cobra that I wouldn't drive if you paid me because I've never driven a ford that didn't fall apart WAY before it's time. (Brand new 03 Supercrew Xmission went with 7500 miles on it, 99 Explorer... what didn't break??? You get the point.) Oh and expensive as hell to fix. I've had 4 Chevy's 2 K1500 Pickups, an 86 Blazer and my Maro, and (with the Maro being the only exception because I just bought it last year and haven't had the time to get it fixed properly yet) my 86 hit 260k before I sold it to a mexican who drove it to mexcio 11 times before it died, and the 2 trucks are still perfect.

Hey, you like them that's great and more power to you.

If you can't see the humor in my post (which is ALL it was) then you need to get some bloodpressure medicine and a hummer. It was just a joke... who's getting offended?

I understand where your coming from. I have a friend who hates ford because he had a bad expierence with them.I like mustangs and like firebirds and camaros alot too.I'm not one of those mustangs rule camaros suck kind of guy.

I really like what is under the hood of the newer Mustangs, but I don't care for the look of them since the SN95 was released. The 2005 Mustangs look even worse.

come on guys lets play nice...it was all in good fun on both sides, both cars were indeed bad ass and lets not over look the real war...american vs. imports. yes the zl1 was a real production car, i dont know why it was labeled concept, i saw 2 of them last month at the f-body gathering, and adverage people owned them( well adverage people with hella loot) but they werent owned by gm or anything. im a die hard camaro guy who use to own a mustang and i too wasnt happy with the car, but i wont down that man too bad, i didnt see him in here statring anything i just thought he was posting a bad ass mustang. and mustang guy please dont call us a bunch of dicks because were not, i dont post in other forums calling the group out like that so please dont do it to us, if u have a problem with a guy and u feel disrespected tell a mod dont start a war because u know as well as i do that a bunch of people will get involved and the result will be a bunch of guys getting time off and i dont wanna see that, not in here nor the mustang forum. we have a mustang mod..gt thats in here all the time and im sure he can speak for the most of us as being nice guys. so lets just shake hands and keep it clean, we can bash mustang vs ford all day and keep it nice, me and my best friend(i own a camaro and he has 3 mustangs) and we talk shit to one another all the time but it dont end up fist to cuff so lets just all get along like rodney king said :smokin:

I say, if you can't take it, don't dish it out. That goes for both sides here.

Just so everybody knows why a Mustang guy post in here, I post in here because I was close to owning a Camaro myself. I didn't care about either one because I like both cars. In the end though I saw this nice 5.0 that was just a better deal, but I'd still love to own an IROC.

I know both cars have been rivals forever but I really don't care. I like both cars, like to talk about both cars, and that's it. I personally get pissed when both sides get into a shit slinging contest of who's better. Yeah, I think the Mustang is better, but in the end both are great cars so lets leave it at that.

UOTE=Muscletang]I say, if you can't take it, don't dish it out. That goes for both sides here.

Just so everybody knows why a Mustang guy post in here, I post in here because I was close to owning a Camaro myself. I didn't care about either one because I like both cars. In the end though I saw this nice 5.0 that was just a better deal, but I'd still love to own an IROC.

I know both cars have been rivals forever but I really don't care. I like both cars, like to talk about both cars, and that's it. I personally get pissed when both sides get into a shit slinging contest of who's better. Yeah, I think the Mustang is better, but in the end both are great cars so lets leave it at that.[/QUOTE]

Dude, you're a day late and a dollar short. Me and RStang already went and made-up. :smooch::bananasmi We's boys now. :smokin: :ylsuper: Hell, I'll even let him ride shotgun in my maro. :cheers:

Yea, i know 2 camaros that would kill that damn stang. Get either a 69 Yenko or the 68 C.O.P.O Camaro to KILL that stupid ford lover.

Mikes71Cam.

Dude, you're a day late and a dollar short.

Eh, just wanted to put my :2cents: in on this whole thing.


Me and RStang already went and made-up. :smooch::bananasmi We's boys now. :smokin: :ylsuper: Hell, I'll even let him ride shotgun in my maro. :cheers:

If you're really boys you'd pick up a couple of girls and let him ride in the back with one :thumbsup:

...If you're really boys you'd pick up a couple of girls and let him ride in the back with one :thumbsup:

HEY! The ONLY people putting snail trails in the back seat of MY maro is me and my wife... he can drive.

And by the way... a flute with no holes is a dick, and a hole with no donut....

HEY! The ONLY people putting snail trails in the back seat of MY maro is me and my wife... he can drive.

Ok I didn't know your wife and you had dibs on the back seat.

And by the way... a flute with no holes is a dick, and a hole with no donut....

Don't mock the Great Zen Philosopher.

I can see where Earlsfat is going with this... :rofl:

Har!

And by the way... my wife claimed dibs on... the hood, the trunk, the front seat, the back seat, the console, the roof, the fenders... It's ridiculous actually. That damn car has more fucking miles than driving miles.

And by the way... my wife claimed dibs on... the hood, the trunk, the front seat, the back seat, the console, the roof, the fenders... It's ridiculous actually. That damn car has more fucking miles than driving miles.

Nothing wrong with that now :thumbsup:

The dash? Lol

That's what I said... YOU HOW CRAMPED THE DASH IN A 70 CAMARO IS????? My back hurt for weeks after that one.

Hell, I'll even let him ride shotgun in my maro. :cheers:

How about I drive your camaro :biggrin:

If you let me drive your camaro you can drive my stang. I'll make sure the nitrous bottle is empty though :grinno:

Or if you want you can take out the crotch rocket :naughty: :biggrin:

now that my car is running, i will tear a new one on an 04 cobra... just wanted to throw that one in :evillol:

How about I drive your camaro :biggrin:

If you let me drive your camaro you can drive my stang. I'll make sure the nitrous bottle is empty though :grinno:

Or if you want you can take out the crotch rocket :naughty: :biggrin:

DUDE! What kind of bike???

Had a 97 Katana 600... to make a long story short my grandfather slipped and told my wife about my 138 mph speeding ticket and I had to sell it, she was pregnant at the time and completely blew a gasket. And before you ask... I was screaming down an absolutely deserted highway, except for the fucking cop, and about 3 miles later got caught in construction traffic. Talk about flipping out... I thought he was going to shoot me, he looked like he had shit his pants. Said he was close to 180 trying to chase me, but I was outta there before he ever got on the highway. It was originally a $300 fine and 13 points, but I challenged it and he sort of saw the humorous side before the trial... Kept the fine, dropped the points to 6. Insurance never went up.

I almost bought an 04 Honda Interceptor or a 04 Ninja ZR1, but fate and my wife talked me into my Maro. The day I went to pick up the Ninja some poor bastard on a Harley got totally slammed right in front of my office. I'm not superstitious or anything but I took that as a hint.

My point is... You drive my maro, I get to drive both... and FULL bottle of NOS.:evillol:

now that my car is running, i will tear a new one on an 04 cobra... just wanted to throw that one in :evillol:
You probably said this a million times.....what do you have in that hood, and HP?

He did an LT1/T56 swap, in a 3rd gen, it is a deadly combo.

Thanks .........thats awesome

oh damn the car is done, ill have to meet up with u someday so i can see it

ya i posted up some vids of it running... may be a couple weeks before i get to take it out, i have quite a few kinks i've got to get fixed... do u still drive the camaro? or is it torn down for another project? anyway, when i get my car running perfect and all the little quirks worked out, we are gonna meet up at gandy or somethin man

i havent started my ls1 project yet, i hope to have the engine by the end of next month, but ill be building it till about nov. then ill work on getting it droped in by the 1st of the year. i dont have time like i use to have, im done school and im working at the hospital from 530am to 230pm so my time at the shop is weekends only. but that will be the shit when both cars are done and we hit the strip. look forward 2 it man, well turn heads in tampa!

well i'm off to arkansas for college around the start of august, but we will roll together before then. i'll for sure send u a PM when i know i'm gonna be able to race

If only I lived in Phillie........
Never mind I like California better
:)

... Phillie........ Never mind I like California better :)


PHILLIE?!?!? Dude you need to get outta CALIE more often. IT'S PHILLY with a Y!

lol its all good i know what u ment, but i live in florida now, the east coast cali with less gang violance, but if u ever hit the east side your always welcome to roll wit.

now that my car is running, i will tear a new one on an 04 cobra... just wanted to throw that one in :evillol:
Congrats on getting her running.

But I don't think you can take down a 03/04 Cobra. I can't take one down.
Or do you have more done than a mostly stock LT1?

Congrats on getting her running.

But I don't think you can take down a 03/04 Cobra. I can't take one down.
Or do you have more done than a mostly stock LT1?

well on the engine itself, just lt4 hot cam, 1.6 rr's, heavy duty timing set (for rpms above 5500), 30lb injectors and a custom tune... plus the slp headers random technology cat, flowmaster catback... other stuff is te k&n filters (tpi intake setup) descreened MAF, air foil, MSD 8mm plug wires, hurst short throw shifter, alluminum 3in driveshaft, spohn racing lower control arms, 1" rear sway bar, and torque arm (set at -1 pinion angle) 3.42 rear posi...

that's all i can remember... all that in an overall lighter car than 4th gens (actually it was lighter even when i had the full cast iron engine and cast iron tranny, now i have the lt1 w/ alluminum intake manifold, heads, and the t56 is alluminum). i have an electric water pump that i haven't put on yet, and i'll soon be getting a 52mm throttle body...

i exaggerated on the "tear a new one" thing, but i am pretty sure i can beat them... i've seen ls1 4th gens beat them w/ nothing but intake, exhaust, and a tune

oh and i forgot to mention, she'll turn 6500 rpm, and she pulls HARD all the way up there

i've seen ls1 4th gens beat them w/ nothing but intake, exhaust, and a tune
Are you sure about that?
03 Cobras like I said earlier run in the 12 range.
My bad PHILLY :grinno: The east coast is like another country if you live in Cali. I dont spell philly too often...lol

Are you sure about that?
03 Cobras like I said earlier run in the 12 range.
My bad PHILLY :grinno: The east coast is like another country if you live in Cali. I dont spell philly too often...lol

stock ls1 ss's have hit times as low as 12.6 before... they run low 13's easy it doesn't take much at all to get them into the 12's

Stock SS run 12 range?

No, stock SS run 13s it doesnt take much though to get em in the 12s.

stock ss's have posted times like 12.6 before... what i meant was that all of them will run low 13's, but some have been in mid 12's stock... no 2 cars are the same, and the ls1 is known for having factory monsters... but even the ones that post low 13's won't need very much at all to land 12's

:iagree:

As for the 12.6 time that's very impressive. I've heard Cobras pulling the same times. Clearly a Cobra and SS would be a driver's race right there. I would say though the best shot for an SS beating a Cobra would be from a 30-40 mph roll. What do you guys think?

Hm..well what rpms does a cobra peak the HP at? I know SS got those peak HP at around 5200 so what about Cobra?

:iagree:

As for the 12.6 time that's very impressive. I've heard Cobras pulling the same times. Clearly a Cobra and SS would be a driver's race right there. I would say though the best shot for an SS beating a Cobra would be from a 30-40 mph roll. What do you guys think?

well, GM has been known for coming out w/ a few factory monsters... that for some unknown reason are more powerful than all the other cars that are supposed to be the same... one of those monsters is what posted a stock 12.6... but the average one will run low 13's, simple intake exhaust and tune mods will get the average ss in the mid 12's... the ls1 responds very well to mods... as far as the race, if u race a 6-speed camaro from a 35mph roll, u have a good chance of getting ur ass handed to ya... that goes for any car. 35mph in second gear is just about the best place for us 6-speed f-body owners

:iagree:

As for the 12.6 time that's very impressive. I've heard Cobras pulling the same times. Clearly a Cobra and SS would be a driver's race right there. I would say though the best shot for an SS beating a Cobra would be from a 30-40 mph roll. What do you guys think?

See where you're wrong is anyone driving a maro would be too busy getting a hummer from the long line of hot chicks waiting for a ride to bother racing a mustang. :lol2: SO really, the mustang would win.

See where you're wrong is anyone driving a maro would be too busy getting a hummer from the long line of hot chicks waiting for a ride to bother racing a mustang. :lol2: SO really, the mustang would win.

:rofl:

sweet...that reminds me of a story....while at the fbody gathering one of the guys that owned a zl1 was kicking it with us when this hott chick comes up and asks who ownes it. well they guy tells her its mines. after she walks around the car she goes up to him and says, if u give me a ride in that car ill show u 5 reasons why its better than a vibrator! man i about fell outta my seat. now thats why i own a camaro, u get chicks!! :evillol:

Mainly because all those chicks you see driving Mustangs just really want a Camaro but couldnt afford it.

lol yeah thats true....

sweet...that reminds me of a story....while at the fbody gathering one of the guys that owned a zl1 was kicking it with us when this hott chick comes up and asks who ownes it. well they guy tells her its mines. after she walks around the car she goes up to him and says, if u give me a ride in that car ill show u 5 reasons why its better than a vibrator! man i about fell outta my seat. now thats why i own a camaro, u get chicks!! :evillol:


WOW, u just gave me another reason to love my car even more :naughty:

See where you're wrong is anyone driving a maro would be too busy getting a hummer from the long line of hot chicks waiting for a ride to bother racing a mustang. :lol2: SO really, the mustang would win.

:grinno:

Mainly because all those chicks you see driving Mustangs just really want a Camaro but couldnt afford it.

You mean "daddy" couldn't afford it.

sweet...that reminds me of a story....while at the fbody gathering one of the guys that owned a zl1 was kicking it with us when this hott chick comes up and asks who ownes it. well they guy tells her its mines. after she walks around the car she goes up to him and says, if u give me a ride in that car ill show u 5 reasons why its better than a vibrator! man i about fell outta my seat. now thats why i own a camaro, u get chicks!!

Yeah, I wouldn't mind having a girl come up and saying that to me....again.