The only road courses that NASCAR races at include Watkins Glen and Infineon.

http://www.theglen.com/

http://www.infineonraceway.com/

I think they should race at more road courses.

i absolutely 100% agree. i think the road courses and short tracks are the tracks that show who the real drivers are.

Which races are you going to drop to add your road courses ? The teams are stretched to the limit with the current number of races.

What road course are you suggesting ? Road Atlanta is too dangerous. Laguna Seca is too tight. Road America is too dangerous. Brainerd is WAY too dangerous. I don't know if VIR is wide enough. Barber might be doable.

500

Infineon is narrow.

I'm not sure which race tracks I would drop.

drop half of the damn cookie cutter tri-ovals, way to many of those. i would personally love to see laguna seca added, thats my #1 choice, theres also the road course at indy. you also didnt mention mid-ohio. i think the to dangerous thing is bullshit. theres a bunch of possible road courses though, vancouver and cleveland are 2 more.

I would like to see ATLEAST 4 different road courses add, and some of these 1.5 miles taken off.

i think some city races would be cool, it would be something different too. vancouver is one and i think they have one in new york? and they have one in jacksonville.

I don't know why people are labeling Road America at Elkhart Lake as dangerous especially since the Trans Am boys have raced there for years and they've decided that ASA late models now qualify for Trans Am racing.

As far as putting NASCAR on a street course, however, I must say it simply wouldn't work. NASCAR puts 43 cars on track, and I cannot think of a street course you could lay out that'd be wide enough for 43 stock cars.

As far as putting NASCAR on a street course, however, I must say it simply wouldn't work. NASCAR puts 43 cars on track, and I cannot think of a street course you could lay out that'd be wide enough for 43 stock cars.

that of course is true... good point. some of those 43 cars arent in points contention tho are they? or if they had the race after the chase started in the last 10 races then they could narrow the field down to like the top 20 or 25

Except that NASCAR still has a contractual obligation to the promoters, teams, television package, and sponsors to field 43 cars.

They simply cannot halve the field to run road courses. As such, the only road courses that can hold NASCAR races are the ones with long pit lanes, fairly wide corners, few to no "bus stop" style chicanes, and at least 2 miles of racing surface.

well your right on top of things it seems... but talking normal road courses... there has to be more that they can add, there are quite a few to look from. this kinda crap is why im starting to hate nascar, they are getting way way to corporate and political. its pissin me, and other people i know off. i have a feeling indy car is gonna make a comback. lucky for me i already got my tickets to the 500... if people would just go to indy races theyd realize how much better they are then nascar races.

The way I view the corporate/political angle of NASCAR is this: NASCAR is a corporation. NASCAR is a bureaucracy. Ergo, NASCAR is inherently corporate/political.

As far as a rebound in Indy car racing is concerned, it's not going to happen anytime soon. While Danica has given the general population a likable hero, the fact of the matter is that there's no disputing the power of NASCAR's "Cult of Personality".

In many cases, an Indy driver is 100% non-descript once they've climbed into the car. There is no three-foot tall number in a distinctive font that fans can use to determine their driver from the myriad of others.

Face it, at 225mph, can we tell if it was Helio Castro-neves or Sam Hornish Jr. who just flew by?

Couple to that the fact that Indy car racing severed its ties to the roots of American racing way back in the 80's when CART was formed. It used to be that local open wheel short track drivers would start in modifieds or midgets at local tracks, then move up to sprints or super modifieds, then Silver Crown, then the big Indy cars.

These were the days of Tom Sneva, Mel Kenyon, Gordon Johncock, Swede Savage, Timmy Richmond, and Bobby Unser.

All of these drivers not only have left an incredible legacy at the Brickyard, but are a part of the fabric of short track racing all across this country. They were "small town folk" who made it big. People associated with them, grew up with them, and felt a personal connection with them.

NASCAR fosters that by now snatching up the short track stars left and right. In just the past few years, J.J. Yeley, Kasey Kahne, Jason Leffler, Mike Bliss, and Tracy Hines have all been scouted and placed into NASCAR development programs. It's one of the biggest causes of the gradual erosion of open-wheel racing in America.

Our hometown heroes never get the chance to show their stuff at Indy and add to the legacy of the great drivers from their tracks and towns who conquered the Brickyard. Sandusky Speedway, my home track, has sent dozens of drivers, including two-time winner Gordon Johncock, to the Indy 500.

Basically, once upon a time, Indy heroes were the people's heroes. Taking short track drivers out of the picture changed that, and until Indy realizes they need to look at series like USAC, ISMA, All-Stars Circuit of Champions, SCRA, NEMARS, HOSS, AVSS, and the World of Outlaws as driver farm systems instead of British Formula 3000, Toyota Atlantic, and Barber Dodge, Indy racing will continue to fade from the public's mind.

Let the wannabe F1 drivers go play in F1's playground. It's the young gun at Anderson or Oswego or Volusia County or Winchester or Irwindale who wants Indy the most.

yep u deffinatly know what ur talkin about... props to ya lol. but just to find something to disagree on... i can see the number when they go by at 225 lol. i was just there yesterday

The way I view the corporate/political angle of NASCAR is this: NASCAR is a corporation. NASCAR is a bureaucracy. Ergo, NASCAR is inherently corporate/political.

As far as a rebound in Indy car racing is concerned, it's not going to happen anytime soon. While Danica has given the general population a likable hero, the fact of the matter is that there's no disputing the power of NASCAR's "Cult of Personality".

In many cases, an Indy driver is 100% non-descript once they've climbed into the car. There is no three-foot tall number in a distinctive font that fans can use to determine their driver from the myriad of others.

Face it, at 225mph, can we tell if it was Helio Castro-neves or Sam Hornish Jr. who just flew by?

Couple to that the fact that Indy car racing severed its ties to the roots of American racing way back in the 80's when CART was formed. It used to be that local open wheel short track drivers would start in modifieds or midgets at local tracks, then move up to sprints or super modifieds, then Silver Crown, then the big Indy cars.

These were the days of Tom Sneva, Mel Kenyon, Gordon Johncock, Swede Savage, Timmy Richmond, and Bobby Unser.

All of these drivers not only have left an incredible legacy at the Brickyard, but are a part of the fabric of short track racing all across this country. They were "small town folk" who made it big. People associated with them, grew up with them, and felt a personal connection with them.

NASCAR fosters that by now snatching up the short track stars left and right. In just the past few years, J.J. Yeley, Kasey Kahne, Jason Leffler, Mike Bliss, and Tracy Hines have all been scouted and placed into NASCAR development programs. It's one of the biggest causes of the gradual erosion of open-wheel racing in America.

Our hometown heroes never get the chance to show their stuff at Indy and add to the legacy of the great drivers from their tracks and towns who conquered the Brickyard. Sandusky Speedway, my home track, has sent dozens of drivers, including two-time winner Gordon Johncock, to the Indy 500.

Basically, once upon a time, Indy heroes were the people's heroes. Taking short track drivers out of the picture changed that, and until Indy realizes they need to look at series like USAC, ISMA, All-Stars Circuit of Champions, SCRA, NEMARS, HOSS, AVSS, and the World of Outlaws as driver farm systems instead of British Formula 3000, Toyota Atlantic, and Barber Dodge, Indy racing will continue to fade from the public's mind.

Let the wannabe F1 drivers go play in F1's playground. It's the young gun at Anderson or Oswego or Volusia County or Winchester or Irwindale who wants Indy the most.
I completely agree. In Toney Stewarts' book he talks about wanting to race Indy since he was a kid, but it seemed impossible during the CART era.

well road courses are fine but remember where nascar came from, oval tracks. if you goto any road course tracks its not very good for the fans you can't see enough of the track you might see a 1/4 mile if your lucky.
if you watch on tv then its great. I would like to see a bigger track than the daga, and take the plates off. just my thoughts

that 13 mile track in germany!! lol jk starts with an N, dont even want to try and spell it

that 13 mile track in germany!! lol jk starts with an N, dont even want to try and spell it
If the Ferrari Enzo coulnd't handle the "Ring" Nascar's would die.

If anything they should race the German Super Speedway. It's like a mix between the old Homestead and Kansas. Not alot of banking, but enough, and they could get to 185-190 there.

When the IRL went there they were getting up around 210. That was the race right after 9/11 where Alex Zinardi last his legs.

Except that it was CART that raced at Lausitzring, not the IRL.

And as far as NASCAR stock cars not being able to handle the classic Nordschleife layout of the Nurburgring, it's no surprise. Modern LMP prototypes and Formula One cars aren't able to tackle the classic 'Ring either.

If anything, with their higher ride heights and relative lack of downforce, stock cars would be more suited to the ring than most would think.

Besides, if you really want to watch stock cars on road courses, catch a Trans-Am race now that they've expanded the rules to allow former ASA late model stock cars.

http://www.trans-amseries.com/Content/Photo/2005/By400/20050410P_0017.jpg

Agreed that a Nextel Cup car would be better at the Nurburgring than a high downforce open wheel car. They're surprisingly easy to drive when set up for road courses, and they're softly sprung enough where they should have no problems with the bumps.

As far as potential other road courses, Road America would probably be the best candidate if they built garages. In current form, Mid-Ohio's pit lane is long enough and they have garages, and that could work. Laguna Seca may also work, but it's only about 2.5 hrs from another road course that Nextel Cup runs on, and doesn't have the spectator capacity of Sears Point. Sebring is a bit furhter down the list, having no garages and 2 Nextel cup tracks within 4 hours.

yeah i was jk about the ring... lol. pretty cool info on trans-am though.

I think they need add another road course race and they need to put it in the final 10 races, they have every type of track except a road course in those last 10.

Back on topic, I'm a California boy, and it just so happens I just got back from the Infineon race tonight...the road courses are much more enjoyable for me because the atmosphere is different up there than at an oval track and the race is more interesting(I've been to a few NASCAR races at fontana, stopped going because they were downright boring)...I think I couldn't hurt to have two more road course races...my vote would be Road America and Sebring...granted, I don't think either one of those tracks were built to handle 100k+drunken lunatics.

...my vote would be Road America and Sebring...granted, I don't think either one of those tracks were built to handle 100k+drunken lunatics.
Having been to the 12 hours of Sebring the last several years, it is plenty capable of handling 100k+ drunken lunatics. The two problems I see with Sebring are lack of garages and location. There are already 3 Nextel Cup races within a 4 hour drive of Sebring (Daytona and Homestead). Road America is certainly big enough to handle 100k+ drunken lunatics, and its nearest Nextel cup races are further away (Michigan) the issue here would be Garages again, though that would be a lot easier to realistically do there than at Sebring.

i would love to see mid-ohio added. thats really close to me. nascar doesnt have any races in ohio yet...

it was mentioned before, but why not race at Indy's road course? Or even Daytona's? How about that airport in Clevland that the Toyota Atlantic guys race on? I'd rather have more road racing than more 1.5 mile tri-oval garbage. It gets so boring that I don't even watch the race, just catch the highlights on Speed Channel, if any.

Well, Burke-Lakefront Airport DEFINITELY does not have the crowd capacity for a NASCAR event. It was strained in CART's heyday, and even then, that wasn't that many people.

Besides, NASCAR is already testing the waters for a return to Ohio through Mansfield Motorsports Speedway in Mansfield, OH. A 1/2 mile oval a bit like an all asphalt Bristol. Once Mansfield develops the crowd capacity and better traffic patterns (they currently sell-out the whole track, plus extra temporary grandstands, with a 25,000 seat capacity and have Crall Road completely gridlocked for the Craftsman Truck Series race).

As far as the road course at Indy, WHY? Seriously, the Brickyard 400 is an astonishing success with one of the richest payouts in racing AND great racing to boot. It helps that Indy is so unique amongst ovals in that it has the "short chutes", 90 degree corners, and is nearly flat.

Why jeopardize all of that to put the race on Indy's road course?

I'll agree that NASCAR is boring as all hell on the 1.5milers, but that just means we have to support tracks like Darlington, Mesa Marin, Rockingham, Mansfield, Martinsville, Pocono, Milwaukee Mile, and Bristol.

If you can't race a sprint car (or supermodified) there, it's not worth racing at. :biggrin:

ok, I see your point and it makes perfectly logical sense. I agree with you that we need to support the tracks that have been around for a while. I think NASCAR should go back to its roots like North Wilkesboro, Thompson Speedway, Ontario, Greenville-Pickens, Bowman-Gray. You mention some of these old tracks that were raced on over 30 years ago to today's new crop of fans, they just look at you like your crazy. Why did Homestead-Miami have to redesign the track just to accommodate NASCAR? Why was Richmond redesigned (though that has been over 15 years ago) or Atlanta? I don't know about anyone else, but I know, the NASCAR that I fell in love with as a kid had short ovals and a few speedways. At the rate that they're going, Bristol, Martinsville, and Richmond are in jeopardy of being cut off the schedule like North Wilkesboro & Thompson.

i agree also, the nascar i started watching was totally different, i recently watched a race on espn classic at riverfront in 1988, a road course for those of u that dont know. now i normally wouldnt watch an old race, but it was awesome to see those cars running how they used to, you can really forget how different they were. they were actually legit stock cars, now its a hot rod with a shell over top. nascar has totally gotten away from their roots. i have a question too, has daytona always been a tri-oval. i could have bet on my life that it used to be a regular oval, but other people have told me otherwise. but yeah its pretty cool to watch those old nascars sliding around the corners, they didnt stick like they do now.

Yeah, Daytona has always been a tri-oval ever since it was opened back in 1959. Riverside is another old road course that NASCAR used to run. You hear old timers like Darrell Waltrip, Rusty Wallace, Ricky Rudd, Mark Martin and others talk about how they loved that track. You mention those tracks to guys like Kasey Kahne, Kyle Busch, Brian Vickers and all these other babies, they have nothing to say b/c they've never raced at those tracks.

Kasey Kahne is far from a baby, bucko.

He might not have raced at Riverside, but his roster of tracks he's raced at includes Eldora, the Indiana State Fairgrounds (mile dirt oval), Terre Haute, Anderson, IRP, and Knoxville.

Kasey's an open wheel guy who's as steeped in the open wheel traditions as any other. He's one of the few West Coast drivers who actually could run heads up with the Pennsylvania Posse and not embarass himself.

He may be experienced in small circle track open wheeling, but he's still a baby...he probably still had acne and braces when NASCAR'S premier series (winston cup back then) raced it's last race at north wilkesboro in the fall of 1996...I know my balls hadn't even dropped when that happened.

Kasey Kahne is far from a baby, bucko.



I was not attacking Kasey Kahne personally, I believe that he's a very talented driver. Since this is just his second year in NASCAR's elite series, he doesn't have as much experience as others who have been around for a while, thus he's still a "baby", he and others who have been in the elite series for less than 3 years. If he sticks around with Ray Evernham, he'll become a championship driver.

I wish they would race at Road America.

I saw a chicane by the "kink" while watching the ALMS race over the weekend.

http://www.roadamerica.com/

I've been thinking about it...and if the large field is such a prolblem, then split it up

If you have 42 cars, split them up into two heats, wih 21 cars each, then the top 10 from each heat go on to the last race, make each race 45 minutes, there ya go, road corse problem solved

The problem isn't field size, it's having the facilities up to NASCAR standards. I've been at 40+ car races at Lime Rock, which at 1.53 miles is about the shortest permanent road course in North America. NASCAR won't go to any tracks that don't have garages for the Cup cars, and AFAIK, Mid-Ohio and Laguna Seca are the only permanent road courses that have garages other than Sears Point and Watkins Glen.

Seein the Nextel cars come through the corkscrew at Laguna Seca...damn that'd be weird.

Seein the Nextel cars come through the corkscrew at Laguna Seca...damn that'd be weird.

actually, I think that would make for some very interesting racing, see what guys are willing to push the envelope and what guys are going to back off, someone's gonna wreck and it'll be just like short track racing!

The problem isn't field size, it's having the facilities up to NASCAR standards. I've been at 40+ car races at Lime Rock, which at 1.53 miles is about the shortest permanent road course in North America. NASCAR won't go to any tracks that don't have garages for the Cup cars, and AFAIK, Mid-Ohio and Laguna Seca are the only permanent road courses that have garages other than Sears Point and Watkins Glen.

Well, I wish they would run at Mid-Ohio or at least Laguna Seca.

http://www.laguna-seca.com/

http://www.midohio.com/home.asp

hell yeah i wish theyd run at mid-ohio too... then thered be a race pretty close to me :iceslolan

UPDATE:

The good news: There is another premiere road course being built that will have garages. ALMS, Grand-Am, World Challenge, and AMA have already announced that they're running there in 2006.

The bad news: It's in Utah. Though it's close to Salt Lake City, there's not much other population base to draw from.

http://www.millermotorsportspark.com/

Denny Hamlin won today's Busch series race in Mexico City.

http://motorsport.com/news/article.asp?ID=211280

http://www.nascar.com/2006/news/headlines/bg/03/05/mexico.quickie/index.html

i still want mid ohio....

Another thing, champ car does this and it has seemed to be very succesful although i could hardly imagine nascar runnin on a city track. but if they could find a way to do it... having racing festivals for a whole weekend has worked very well for champ car. just a thought, even if it has no chance of happening...

Seein the Nextel cars come through the corkscrew at Laguna Seca...damn that'd be weird.

First lap...43 cars thundering through there...that wouldn't be weird, that would be awesome!

I heard that IROC is going to do the Daytona road course. Well, last I heard, Daytona's got a permanent garage that NASCAR teams can use.