More overheating

Guys-
I know there is a lot of bad intake and head gaskets with the Venture vans and my brothers is no different. His van ('99 3.4) only occasionally over heats. If I bleed all the air out of it, it will run fine for a while. Then the temp gauge will start bouncing around and the heater doesn't blow any heat. It seems like an air pocket is definetly moving around. My question is this: Has any one else expierenced this and I'm hoping it's just the intake gasket pushing air into the cooling system and not the head gaskets. There is no coolent in the oil and it doesn't seem that it is burning any. Thanks

I have had the same problem, 99' 3.4L van would sit a idle just fine and then when I took it out on the road. temp gauge would bounce from overheating to normal. heater would be stone cold when overheating and when temp. gauge would fall back to normal limits; heat would come back to system. I then noticed that the resevior was filled to overflowing capacity, when I returned home and popped the hood. I also continued to try and purge any air out of system( as I thought it was a air pocket:due to heater core replacment). I did notice a different amount of vapor from the tailpipe during idleing, but not during road driving( which would indicate a bad head gasket)nothing in oil either. My mind was twisting at this point( I checked the water pump, replaced the raditor cap and checked the termostat; none of this helped). Finally took it to a friend that tested the coolant for exhaust; nothing. He then used a tool that allows you to presurize the coolant system( fits on top of the raditor) and pumped it up and watched the gauge, it slowly dropped indicating a leak. It has to be the lower intake manifold gaskets , which are notorious for failure. There is no visible leaking on motor or under van. Since i had just replaced the heater core and wanted to make sure that it was not leaking, I had not put everything back together( so it is not leaking either). This what I have summized and hope this will help you

I have the same situation going on that you describe, but I just spent 7 hours changing the intake gaskets, thermostat, and radiator cap. The way it is acting doesn't seem like a head gasket. At idle it will run fine (temp) with decent heat coming out of the vents but once going down the road the temp gauge skyrockets into hot and no heat comes out. You can pull over for a second and crack the bleeder open by the water pump, release some air/steam, and the temp will drop into the normal but still no heat in the cab. After doing this you can drive again and the temp gauge will go from cold to middle of the range with no more overheating but still no heat in the cab. With my experience with blown head gaskets, wouldn't it heat up and stay that way? It almost seems like their is no circulation at higher speeds? Maybe impellor slipping on waterpump? I don't understand why with the temp gauge in the middle of the range I don't have heat. There must be an air pocket in the heater core? Are these 3.4's just that hard to bleed the air out of? When I first changed the intake and bled the system, the van ran fine with excellent heat for the first 20 miles, then this stuff started happening again. I'm stumped and this Venture is down the road when this is fixed!

Yea, I have that same thing, but i haven't done the lower intake gaskets yet. Wow, this is really disheartening to learn that the lower intakes may not be the problem. I also thought of the water pump impeller and removed the water pump to check it for errosion and slippage( it was intacted with no slippage). But please check yours as this may be a problem to your vehicle. gasket was only two dollars. AS far as the heater core with an air pocket in it , I also thought of that. So I waited till the engine was cool and then took off the rubber house from the water pump bypass line( still connected to return line off heater core) attached a funnel and cracked the bleeder valves. Then tried to fill the heater core this way. trying to out smart the thermostat and the enginners. Could put a little in at a time but would eventually fill up. Reconnected everything and began the whole air bleeding saga again. Nothing, just the same temp gauge conditions and hot air/steam from the bleeder valves also. I have done this whole air bleed stuff four days and countless hours. I even tried using my air compressor( set the regulator a 15psi) and presurized the system through the coolant overflow line, with the coolant system filled as much as it could hold. cracked the bleeders slowly and waited for coolant. Thought I had it fixed and nothing just the same thing again. I know this might seem a bit confusing and I apoligize in advance, but I am also looking for a resolution to this problem.

Guys,
I pulled the heads off my brothers '99 this weekend and dropped them off at the machine shop to get checked. The owner of the shop said he sees 3.4's now and then, and usually the heads are cracked. Hopefully mine aren't! I'll let you know what happens after I get them back on.

Hello ejazz,
I am new to the site. I wish I had been a couple of days early. Change the rubber O-rings in the coolant pipes. There are four. Did you notice if your hoses were collasping with the engine running. If they are over four years old change them. Once everything is back together, do a pressure test on the coolant system. You should be able to rent the tool from the auto part store. I hope you get it running!
jwheels

yea, my friend also told me about the poor quality of the heads and advised me to remove them and have them( I believe) magna honded, or something to that nature. Any idea on replacment prices?

See if the machine shop will give you a price on rebuilding your heads. They should let you know if they can be restored.

Guys,
I picked up the heads this weekend and got the van back together with great results. The rear head gasket (closest to the firewall) had a slight seepage leak that would only leak when hot. We had it back together in about 5 hours. I replaced all the o-rings on the coolent pipes, the plugs, and the oxygen sensor while I could get to it. The machine shop checked the heads for cracks and put new valve seals in. The total for the labor and a head set from Clevite with all the gaskets, o-rings, and seals was $280. Not bad. After getting familiar with the van from trying the intake gasket first, it's really not that hard to do. I have done this on several other vans and it's basically the same procedure except GM designs some of the dumbest brackets and parts I've ever seen. You have to take off five brackets to get to the one bolt you want and they have so many nooks and crannys that you can't reach into. I'm missing three sockets after the project! Get a good flexible magnet! I hope this info helps and feel free to ask if you need help.

I'm really glad it worked out for you. These "o-rings", where are they? Thanks in advance

The o-rings are on the coolent pipes where they slide into the intake manifold. There is also one on the bypass pipe where it goes into the top of the water pump.

ejazz,

I'm trying to get to my head gaskets, but I can't get the passenger side front motor mount off. I've found 4 bolts that appear to hold it in place (one short one that mounts into the head up top, one short one that fastens into the block, two long ones that are down by the a/c compressor that mount into the block). Can you tell me which one I might be missing?

Like you, I already replaced my upper and lower intake manifold gaskets to no avail. Originally, my problem occurred once on a cold Friday. It warmed up for the weekend and the van drove normally. The next cool down brought the problem back for good. I was getting coolant in the oil pan, but I haven't since replacing the intake gaskets (the van's only seen about 50 miles since then). The head gaskets seem to be a logical solution now.

I'm just glad I have alternate transportation. The first shop I took it to quoted me $1800 to do the head gaskets.

Thanks,
phix

I have the same damn problem can't get that torque strut bracket on the passenger side off!

I have the same damn problem can't get that torque strut bracket on the passenger side off!

I decided to sacrifice the front left bolt in the head. It has a shoulder that extends beyond the hex that acts almost as a dowel pin through the torque strut bracket. I drilled a hole (about 10mm) down the middle of the shoulder. Once that was done, it was pretty easy to wiggle the left torque strut bracket off. I'm figuring I'll buy another bolt when I go to buy the gasket. I'd imagine you could get a similar result by heating the bracket, but I'm not sure it's wise considering the state of the fuel lines.

After you get the torque strut bracket off, DRENCH the studs holding the exhaust manifold on with liquid wrench. The two left (front) studs both broke off in the head on me.

I decided to sacrifice the front left bolt in the head. It has a shoulder that extends beyond the hex that acts almost as a dowel pin through the torque strut bracket. I drilled a hole (about 10mm) down the middle of the shoulder. Once that was done, it was pretty easy to wiggle the left torque strut bracket off. I'm figuring I'll buy another bolt when I go to buy the gasket. I'd imagine you could get a similar result by heating the bracket, but I'm not sure it's wise considering the state of the fuel lines.

After you get the torque strut bracket off, DRENCH the studs holding the exhaust manifold on with liquid wrench. The two left (front) studs both broke off in the head on me.


Thanks for the info! I was wondering if that thing was holding it on there. Your right it almost loooks like a dowel pin, and I didn't realize it was even part of a head bolt. By the way if it is a part of the head bolt I wouldn't worry about it to much because you are suppose to replace all the head bolts when you do the gaskets because the threads are stretched.

Quick question! For sure for sure how many bolts were holding the strut bracket in place other then the one that looks like a dowel? GM dealer said only two, which was all I could find!

Thanks for the info! I was wondering if that thing was holding it on there. Your right it almost loooks like a dowel pin, and I didn't realize it was even part of a head bolt. By the way if it is a part of the head bolt I wouldn't worry about it to much because you are suppose to replace all the head bolts when you do the gaskets because the threads are stretched.

Quick question! For sure for sure how many bolts were holding the strut bracket in place other then the one that looks like a dowel? GM dealer said only two, which was all I could find!

There were 4 total. 2 long bolts holding the A/C compressor on, 1 right above the left compressor bolt, and 1 right next to the left most head bolt up top.

Also, you don't have to remove the rear exhaust manifold to remove the rear head. It is easier to loosen the middle set of exhaust manifold nuts and studs from underneath. Once you pull the rear exhaust manifold nuts and studs from the head, the head will lift straight off. Again, I'd recommend a lot of liquid wrench on the exhaust manifold nuts/studs. I broke 2 off on the fron head.

I took both heads to a machine shop today. I'll start re-assembly as soon as I get them back and let you know how it goes.

Sorry about not responding guys- My brother sold the van after we got it fixed and I never checked back here until now.
If I remember right, there were four bolts holding that front strut bracket and the head bolt top that acts like a dowel pin. By now you probably realize how fun they are to get back in there! If someone can hep you they can sort of push the motor back to allow a little more room in there. Some of my exhaust manifold studs broke off in the head also but the machine shop removed them and I replaced them. I also replaced the 6 bolts on the exhaust manifold ends where the crossover pipe goes. Something else that happened to me was after we got the van back together and went for a test drive was that the speedometer did not work and the van was shifting funny. It turned out that when we were tipping the motor back and forth we unplugged the vehicle speed sensor on the passenger side transaxle. What a relief to find an unplugged wire! Hope some of this helped, I check back more often. Good luck and hope your knuckles all heal after this job!

Definately easier putting the rear exhaust manifold on the head when it's on the bench! I put the heat shields on and the sparkplugs in the back head before putting it on. Just remember not to hit the bottom of the plug on anything when it's sticking out the bottom of the head, you'll have gap issues. Also consider changing the oxygen sensor in the rear exhaust manifold at this time. It's a wear-out part and won't be any easier to get to than now.

Sorry about not responding guys- My brother sold the van after we got it fixed and I never checked back here until now.
If I remember right, there were four bolts holding that front strut bracket and the head bolt top that acts like a dowel pin. By now you probably realize how fun they are to get back in there! If someone can hep you they can sort of push the motor back to allow a little more room in there. Some of my exhaust manifold studs broke off in the head also but the machine shop removed them and I replaced them. I also replaced the 6 bolts on the exhaust manifold ends where the crossover pipe goes. Something else that happened to me was after we got the van back together and went for a test drive was that the speedometer did not work and the van was shifting funny. It turned out that when we were tipping the motor back and forth we unplugged the vehicle speed sensor on the passenger side transaxle. What a relief to find an unplugged wire! Hope some of this helped, I check back more often. Good luck and hope your knuckles all heal after this job!


Did you take your heads to a machine shop or did you just re-install them with new gaskets?

Did you take your heads to a machine shop or did you just re-install them with new gaskets?

I'd definitely recommend taking them to a machine shop. It doesn't make a lot of sense to put a potentially cracked head back on the van. Besides, the place I took mine did a lot better job of degreasing them than I would have.

Total cost was $223 after taxes. They checked the heads for cracks and warp-age, pressure tested each cylinder, degreased them, removed the 2 studs that had broken off during removal, and resurfaced them.

Better safe than sorry.

Total cost was $223 after taxes. They checked the heads for cracks and warp-age, pressure tested each cylinder, degreased them, removed the 2 studs that had broken off during removal, and resurfaced them.Is that $223 just the machine shop work, or was the entire repair, gaskets included?

Last week I did the intake gasket repair. Got everything all back together just to find out that I get to do the heads this weekend. Grrr. At least I'm getting good at tearing down things. :)


Also, for those that did the head job, is it required to replace the bolts? It appears that the bolts are torqued to yield (torqued to a value + a certain number of degrees). Shop manual says nothing about replacing the bolts, Haynes manual says to save the bolts in order to reuse them, dealer parts counter says that they can be reused without a problem and the service desk guy said that it's recommended. I guess its conclusively inconclusive as to what to do.

Is that $223 just the machine shop work, or was the entire repair, gaskets included?

Last week I did the intake gasket repair. Got everything all back together just to find out that I get to do the heads this weekend. Grrr. At least I'm getting good at tearing down things. :)


Also, for those that did the head job, is it required to replace the bolts? It appears that the bolts are torqued to yield (torqued to a value + a certain number of degrees). Shop manual says nothing about replacing the bolts, Haynes manual says to save the bolts in order to reuse them, dealer parts counter says that they can be reused without a problem and the service desk guy said that it's recommended. I guess its conclusively inconclusive as to what to do.

I was told by more then one source you have to replace the bolts... I did the same thing you did first two then I messed up an intake gasket tearing it down for the heads. So I'm doing the hole job over. as for the heads I believe that is $200 more to add onto the price of the gaskets and all. Here is a list of parts that should be replaced to my recolection.

injector seals . fuel line o rings coolant bypass seal upper and lower intake head gaskets head bolts might as well change your thermastat also there is one other gasket for another part but I just can't remember off the top of my head what it is! It's alot of work, I'm still stuck on this bracket can't locate the other bolts and I have nobody to tilt the motor back for me.

I was told by more then one source you have to replace the bolts...This then contradicts what 2 shops told me this afternoon. One even said that a more or less industry standard is that if a bolt has a 6-sided head, they are not stretch bold, but if they are 12 sided or have a torx or allen wrench style head they are stretch. I relly didn't want to spend an additional $116 on bolts from the dealer (or 80 non-OEM).

injector seals, fuel line o rings, coolant bypass seal, upper and lower intake head gaskets head bolts might as well change your thermastat also there is one other gasket for another part but I just can't remember off the top of my head what it is!Several things you didn't mention that are suggested to be replaced are:
-injector o-rings (leave the fuel lines connected to the rail...it's easier and less messy to just unbolt the two bolts holding down the rail. The rail and injectors just pop off and can easily be laid over towards the cruise control/ABS hardware.
-You got the bypass pipe o-ring, but you forgot the o-ring on the pipe that connects nearby the thermostat housing. I beleive this goes back to the heater core
-Oil pump drive shaft o-ring under where the distributor would have been. It will leak if it hasn't already (looks like a main seal leak from the bottom of the car), easy to do, and only costs a few dollars for the o-ring.
-radiator cap - might as well replace it unless you have recently.

Depending on how far you really want to go, you can also do exhaust gaskets, spark plugs, and HO2S since it's very easy to reach with the manifolds off.

It's alot of work, I'm still stuck on this bracket can't locate the other bolts and I have nobody to tilt the motor back for me.Just thinking off the top of my head, but how about a jack (or anything else wedged in there) pushing between the driver side mount and the front member? Shouldn't take much to push it back. Getting the heads off is my goal for tonight. I'll know more about what you are going through in about 6 hours. :)

Also, you don't have to remove the rear exhaust manifold to remove the rear head. It is easier to loosen the middle set of exhaust manifold nuts and studs from underneath. Once you pull the rear exhaust manifold nuts and studs from the head, the head will lift straight off. Again, I'd recommend a lot of liquid wrench on the exhaust manifold nuts/studs. I broke 2 off on the fron head.
Thanks for the advice on the rear manifold. It saved a lot of heartache that trying to get those 6 bolts would have caused.

I started last night for about an hour and a half. I got pretty much everything stripped down ready to remove the lower manifold and called it an evening. Tonight, I got down and removed the heads. For others that might tackle this job, here are a few things that worked for me:

-To remove the front engine mount, there is 1 bolt on the top and 3 on teh bottom. It will likely stick like there is a 5th bolt, but it is just stuck on the stud to the left of the top bolt. I put a large long screwdriver thought the top of the mount to get a good hold, then was able to rock it back and forth off.

-Twist off the 3 nuts/studs on the crossover pipe going to the front manifold. They will break off. Don't even bother soaking them in penetrating oil. Just drill em out later and replace the studs or use bolts.

-Depending on where the bolts twist off in the above step, you may or may not be able to remove the front head without taking off the manifold. I wasn't lucky and the cross over pipe couldn't move far enough to clear the broken studs, so I had to remove the front manifold. Cylinder 2 top bolt was barely there and twisted off immediately. The lower bolt had already broken off long ago as evident by the large black area around the exhaust port. Use a breaker bar to losen up the nuts initially. A ratchet wrench can then be used to remove them. Use short, firm strokes. Don't snap the wrench sharply, but don't gradually lean into it. One of 3 things will happen - the nut will just spin off, the nut will seize but still back out the stud from the head, or snap off. On the front I ended up with 2 snapped, 2 studs pulled out, and 2 studs left. On the rear 4 studs pulled out and 2 remained.

-As noted in the above quoted post, just remove the rear manifold with the rear head. I also left the crossover pipe bolted to the manifold. There are two bolts attaching the manifold to the tail pipe. An impact wrench, breaker bar, and 18 or 24 inches of extensions make fairly short order of these bolts from underneith the car.

-The head bolts were on tight. You really gotta try to get these off. A 1/2 breaker bar helps here. Crack the bolts in a counterclockwise pattern, starting in the lower right bolt, getting the outside bolts first, then the inside bolts. Then continue losening them up 1/4 turn in the same pattern until they are finger lose. Do this for both the front and rear.

-I got lucky and my heads literally fell off. They didn't stick at all. Quickly remove the heads and set them aside. Wipe up any excess coolant that leaks down into the cylinders.

-Keep everything in order. I used a large box bottom and punched holes in it for all push rods, rockers, and bolts. I also used snack sized zip-lock baggies to put all bolts in. As you remove a set of bolts (e.g. alternator brackets, upper manifold, lower, etc), toss them in a marked bag. It'll make it easier later.

Looking at my head gaskets, heads, and block, it appeared that they had been leaking for a while. The gasket was fairly soaked in coolant, and not just from removing the head. It appears that it actually absorbed some in areas where it would normally be clamped down.

Below are a few pictures (click for larger versions):
http://img190.exs.cx/img190/8190/10lt1.th.jpg (http://img190.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img190&image=10lt1.jpg)Just with the rear head removed. I removed the rear head first so that any crude that might have fallen off the rear wouldn't fall in the front cylinders or coolant openings. Or you could just put a cloth/paper towel/newspaper over it too.

http://img169.exs.cx/img169/5683/28qc.th.jpg (http://img169.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img169&image=28qc.jpg)Just a picture of the gasket. You can't tell real easily, but you can see some of the areas where coolant had been outside of the obvious areas that are around the coolant channels.

http://img169.exs.cx/img169/5313/36dh.th.jpg (http://img169.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img169&image=36dh.jpg)This is a side profile of the gasket. You can really see how much it has bilistered up. 7 years and 152,000 miles apparently do this to a head gasket. The blisters aren't just the brown sludge that appears in our systems, but actually hard corrosion of the gasket. It can be scraped off, but it obviously destroys that area of the gasket.

http://img169.exs.cx/img169/8436/40jt.th.jpg (http://img169.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img169&image=40jt.jpg)Just a pic of the block. Not a whole heck of a lot left. The coolant is green due to the leak dye I put in...3 coolant changes ago. A little last forever in the system and I just haven't had the desire to truely flush the system. It actually is orange when you look at a large accumulation, but individual drops appear green. The red areas are just coolant passageways that have a rust-like color. The digital picture just has some funky colors.

Hopefully the heads will go into to the machine shop tomorrow to get a hot bath, 2 studs removed, planed (if needed still) and possibly new valve seals since it will never be easier to do. Now I just have to find a shop open on Saturday morning.

Can someone provide me with a picture of the front bracket so I can see where all the bolts are located. I seriously can not find or see two of them. Maybe even a quick drawing to show me.

Can someone provide me with a picture of the front bracket so I can see where all the bolts are located. I seriously can not find or see two of them. Maybe even a quick drawing to show me.Sure thing.

http://img59.exs.cx/img59/4612/dscf26236ne.th.jpg (http://img59.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img59&image=dscf26236ne.jpg)

The yellow circle is the bolt on the top of the mount, visible (and removed) from the top of the engine. You are seeing the bottom of the hole here.

The green circle is a stud...nothing to remove although it likely will prevent the mount from just falling off. My father and I couldn't figure out what the heck this was for other then possibly an assembly aid. This stud is also the lower left head bolt. The actual hole really isn't visible (too dark)

The two red circles are bolts that aren't visible because they are long bolts that go through the A/C compressor. There is also a 3rd bolt that holds the AC compressor on that must to make room to remove the bracket.

The blue circle is a short bolt on the bottom of the mount and easily visible. This can be removed without removing the AC compressor.

Let me know if there is anything else you want a picture of...the heads are in the shop until Tuesday and then things are going back together.

Thats awesome thanks very much! The other thing would be the order of the rods and the lengths they are for the valves. I put them in a box standing up in the order I took them out but previous to me going after the head gaskets I did the upper and lower intake gaskets and my friend just yanked them all out without thinking. I just want to make sure I got them all correct.


If you can start at the back left and goto the right.
Then start at the front left and goto the right.

Thats awesome thanks very much! The other thing would be the order of the rods and the lengths they are for the valves. I put them in a box standing up in the order I took them out but previous to me going after the head gaskets I did the upper and lower intake gaskets and my friend just yanked them all out without thinking. I just want to make sure I got them all correct.


If you can start at the back left and goto the right.
Then start at the front left and goto the right.I think the exhaust rods are the shorter, but don't quote me on it. I'll have to check later tonight when I run back over to my parents place.

I think the exhaust rods are the shorter, but don't quote me on it. I'll have to check later tonight when I run back over to my parents place.Doh. I was incorrect. It's the exhaust that are longer (indicated as an L below). The intake rods are shorter (indicated as an S below).

The order for the back row (cylinders 1,3, and 5), from passenger side to driver side, is L-S-L-S-S-L
The order for the front row (cylinders 2,4, and 6), from passenger side to driver side, is L-S-S-L-S-L.

I don't know however if there are any downsides to reusing the push rods in different lifters. Ideally they should be put back in the same order, but that isn't an option here. At a bare minimum clean them up and check for pitting and scoring. Also roll them across a flat table to see if any are bent. Replace if necessary. Also don't forget to put a dab of moly based grease or assembly lube on the contact points to help with friction until oil pressure is built up.

I'm in the process of bleeding my cooling system now. Everything went back together relatively easily, although I should have torqued the rear exhaust manifold bolts from underneath to save time.


My SES light came on almost immediately, which leads me to think that I missed a wire harness. It did start right up and runs more quietly than it did before, so I'm hoping that's a good sign.

My head gaskets look a lot worse than cdru's.

The use of liquid wrench on the exhaust manifold studs and the crossover pipe saved all but the 3 studs I didn't spray. If you're not the type that likes drilling studs out, use the liquid wrench.

If anyone has any specific questions, feel free to PM me. It's all still pretty fresh in my head.

I'm in the process of bleeding my cooling system now. Everything went back together relatively easily, although I should have torqued the rear exhaust manifold bolts from underneath to save time.Why didn't you put the rear manifold on while it was out of the engine? It's a piece of cake with it out and easily pops into place. The front one you aren't so lucky because the dip stick tube has to go between the manifold and the head.

A local radio show mechanic recommended a tool that draws a vaccum in the cooling system, then sucks in just coolant to replace the air. Presto, no air bubbles. I've found a few sources for at least one manufacturer of the tool, under the brand name AirEvac (http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=9602) but just can't force myself to spend the $80 for it. Stupid GM engineers that put the bleeder screw at the BOTTOM of the upper radiator hose that runs uphill.

My SES light came on almost immediately, which leads me to think that I missed a wire harness. It did start right up and runs more quietly than it did before, so I'm hoping that's a good sign.Did you remember the O2 sensor and the module that fits under the ignition module bracket (forget which one that is). Those are the only two that aren't readily obvious just with a quick glance.

The use of liquid wrench on the exhaust manifold studs and the crossover pipe saved all but the 3 studs I didn't spray. If you're not the type that likes drilling studs out, use the liquid wrench.The 6 crossover studs all snapped off with the nuts when I took them off. However, all 6 had no problems unscrewing from the manifolds using the hex hut that is apart of the stud. No drilling required to remove them. Of the two manifold studs that did need to be removed by a machine shop, one had snapped off long ago unknown to me and the other was just barely on there as it was "finger loose" when I first put the wrench on it.

When reassembling the heads and exhaust studs, don't forget to put some antisieze on all the threads to help the next time you need to remove things.

If anyone has any specific questions, feel free to PM me. It's all still pretty fresh in my head.Likewise with me. It's going back together tonight and tomorrow so if you need a picture of something off the car, speak now or forever hold your piece.

I spent the good majority of last night cleaning everything up since there really isn't much of the engine left. Took the lifters out and gave them a good cleaning as well as they had been ticking before. With the coolant leak and the ticking, it wasn't going to hurt. NAPA got my heads done early and they sure cleaned up nicely for just a chemical pressure wash. The machinist said the heads were in great shape and had no warpage, so they only had to plane a minimal amount off to remove some surface imperfections. Total charge was around $160 to plane the heads, pressure check them, and remove a stud. The 2nd stud apparently poped out so they didn't charge for it. They were put on last night and torqued down. 37 ft lbs doesn't seem like a lot, but that extra 90 degrees adds about another 45 lbs of torque.

I'll post a picture later, but it's amazing how much varnish from 152,000 miles worth of oil was over everything. The heads are sparkling clean compared to the block.

Up on the list of things to do tonight is get the exhaust system completely back together and get the lower manifold on, sealed, and torqued. I'll let that sit up tomorrow night, pressure check the system on Wednesday and hopefully be able to drive in to work on Thursday.

:) I had a car that had a slight head gasket leak it was losing coolant I think it was an Escort not sure ? with aluminum head anyway I dumped a tube of Alumaseal radiator sealer into it and that fixed it right up ! a couple years later I did a radiator flush on this car and refilled it with fresh antifreeze and the leak was back ! I dumped in more Alumaseal and it was fine ! ...I drove it years that way Sometimes this works sometimes it don't if the leak is to big it won't work but its ...Worth a try I say ... About the broken bolts and Studs I like BP-Blaster to get stuck bolts loose I used it on my 3.4L Manifold studs recently to get them out. First I squirt on a little blaster then I rock the bolt back and forth a tiny bit to get the blaster to work into the threads then I squirt on some more blaster then I back the bolt or stud out screwing it in and out once in awhile to keep it free'd up ... One other trick I learned is that shock will loosen a bolt or nut where steady turning pressure will just break it off !
I learned this testing brake calipers at the Bendix brake lab ...I was testing 50 calipers that were cycled in ovens and I had to dis connect them each day and test each one for wear . The first one I went to take out on the first day The flange nut broke off in the caliper ! Then I remembered about SHOCK and tried whacking my flange wrench with a small hammer to get the flange nuts off it worked , I took those brake lines off day after day and never broke a flange nut again ! Of course my flange wrench was all messed up from hitting it with a small hammer but this really works good ! to get any type of stuck nut or bolt loose if you can get in there and whack that wrench ! like I say its very hard on wrenches but sometimes it is cheaper than buying new parts ... BOB in MICHIGAN

I found the first issue with my '04. While going up the canyon (it isn't too steep, avg. speed around 30 mph) the van began to overheat. Not heavily loaded, a/c off, couldn't keep the temperature from getting near the red, even with the heater on. Pulled over and let it idle until it got down to normal (about 5 min) and began again. Heated up again so had to pull over a few minutes later and let it cool. I popped the hood and everything looked OK (clean, no steam, etc.). The fans were on but seemed to be turning real slow. Is this normal? Typical? I'm taking it in to the dealer this week (still under warranty), but wanted ideas.

Is this normal? Typical? I'm taking it in to the dealer this week (still under warranty), but wanted ideas.Normal? Define normal? :) I wouldn't say it's normal but it may not necessarily be abnormal either. Climbing out of a canyon puts a considerable strain on the engine. If the ambient air temperature was high enough, it may be enough to raise the temperature higher then normal.

The signs of a failing head gasket are:


unexplained loss of coolant with no visible external leaks
visible external leaks
white smoke coming from the tail pipe
significant amouts of fluids coming out of the tailpipe (don't confuse with normal combustion vapor/condensation)
poor engine performance/rough running
sensor fouling
overflow tank overfilled
air bubbles forming in the coolant system


Any one of these may also be symptoms of other problems or issues, but it's just something to keep an eye out.

[QUOTE=cdru]Normal? Define normal? :) I wouldn't say it's normal but it may not necessarily be abnormal either. Climbing out of a canyon puts a considerable strain on the engine. If the ambient air temperature was high enough, it may be enough to raise the temperature higher then normal.

Normal is where the guage sits around town and on the freeway. I was trying to baby the engine without getting too slow. The guage, which normally sits about straight up (whatever temp that is) and will vary up or down a notch. Going up the canyon it kept climbing towards the red notch. I pulled over when it got to two notches from the red notch. I know that doesn't give any temperatures, but it was definitely heading towards the red. Also, I wasn't working the van that hard, it wasn't heavily loaded, and the road in that section wasn't too steep. I never had a vehicle overheat up this stretch. When I finally gave up and pulled over to let it cool before returning back down the hill it did cool down to normal, then it began to climb again. This is just idling. Hood was up, air was cool (about 79 degrees). Heater was on to help cool things off. I'm wondering if there is an air bubble somewhere.

The reason why I said "define normal" is, at least on my van, the gauge will vary some. My van is the first vehicle that I've driven where the needle actively changed once it got up to operating temperature. "Normal" driving around town is at the first major mark on my 98 Trans Sport. This corresponds to approximately 195 degrees, the opening temperature of the thermostat. If it's a warmer day (~80-90 degrees), it will be slightly higher.

Normal driving speeds provides adequet air flow through the radiator that my fans don't turn on...ever (presuming AC isn't on that is). If it's a hot day and I'm stuck idling at a light or in a parking lot for instance, the needle will slowly climb to straight vertical. This is in the neighborhood of 215-220 degrees. At 220 degrees, the low speed fans will kick in. If it continues to rise, the high speed fans kick in at 230 degrees. GregA has kindly posted this (http://www.links-to-golf.com/van/engine-cooling-system.html) page that explains how the fans are suppose to work.

Under normal conditions without the AC on, your van may never kick in the low speed let alone high speed. 230 is near the red portion of the gauge. The numbers printed on my gauge are nothing like actual values and are useless to figure out specific values for intermediary tick marks.

In your case, there could have been several things that could effect the temperature. It was possible that it was an airbubble but small air bubbles usually can be forced through the system if you rev the engine and accelerate sharply. If that didn't correct the problem, then you might want to look at cooling system performance. A radiator that is plugged or has a large numbers of bent fins obviously can't cool as well. Likewise, if the tubes are corroded and restrict the flow of coolant, it also can't cool as well.

Since you said that the fans were turning very slowly and if indeed the temperature was high enough to at least turn on the fans, I would first check to make sure the fans are running correctly. Check to make sure the fuses and relays are good. You also should jumper the fans directly to 12V to see if they also spin up as they should. It's possible the very slow spinning was just from air passing through the radiator, not from them spinning on their own. The diagram on the page linked to above will help in getting the connector pinouts correct.

Sure thing.

http://img59.exs.cx/img59/4612/dscf26236ne.th.jpg (http://img59.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img59&image=dscf26236ne.jpg)

The yellow circle is the bolt on the top of the mount, visible (and removed) from the top of the engine. You are seeing the bottom of the hole here.

The green circle is a stud...nothing to remove although it likely will prevent the mount from just falling off. My father and I couldn't figure out what the heck this was for other then possibly an assembly aid. This stud is also the lower left head bolt. The actual hole really isn't visible (too dark)

The two red circles are bolts that aren't visible because they are long bolts that go through the A/C compressor. There is also a 3rd bolt that holds the AC compressor on that must to make room to remove the bracket.

The blue circle is a short bolt on the bottom of the mount and easily visible. This can be removed without removing the AC compressor.

Let me know if there is anything else you want a picture of...the heads are in the shop until Tuesday and then things are going back together.
Do you need to discharge the a/c to remove these bolts?? How do you reach them?? Are the heads facing the front end or the other end?

Do you need to discharge the a/c to remove these bolts?? How do you reach them?? Are the heads facing the front end or the other end?


I did not have to discharge the AC, you can reach all the bolts from above, it is easier if you remove the splash guard and wheel.

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