AT or MT what do you like better
What is your guys opinions. Do you like a Automative or a Manual. What do you guys think is better for stuff like Drag racing, spinning out, doing donuts, and what funner. What do you guys think.

When i saw this i thought you were talking about all terrain or mud terrain tires, in that case i'd go with all terrains.

but for trannies i'd definately have to say manual in most cases. its just a lot funner and you get better performance and gas mileage. the only cars i wouldn't get a manual in are suv's/trucks or luxury cars. anything else demands a manual.

Neither I soend most of my time drivng a Tiptronic car

Originally posted by snowboarder
When i saw this i thought you were talking about all terrain or mud terrain tires, in that case i'd go with all terrains.

but for trannies i'd definately have to say manual in most cases. its just a lot funner and you get better performance and gas mileage. the only cars i wouldn't get a manual in are suv's/trucks or luxury cars. anything else demands a manual.

True... Yeah i'm an lazy old fart , i don't even write my own opinions :finger:

i like auto for its ease of use on long hauls through city enviroments & such.

but definately manual is for me.
Im willing to put up with the work just for the thrill and performance aspects of it

manual for racing and spinnin out and stuff for sure,automatic for old farts who cant shift or want to go slow ( mustangs for example)

WOW, Another strikingly immature post by DarkLightVR4
:flipa:

I love driving manual but an auto is good for slugging it out in city traffic during the daily bump and grind. Auto is also good for highway crusing as it teams up nicely with cruise control.

But for a real driving experience and to learn how a car really feels you can't go passed a manual.

Bangin gears, and proud of it!

for cars with speed id want Manual but for just regular cars, like honda, toyota and other cars with not a lot of speed id pick automatic

i love the stick... but it's nice to get a break and drive an auto now and again

manual cars rule... your just not getting the point of owning an automobile when its an auto... i mean, autos are like dodgem cars, theres absolutely no skill involved whatsoever

I prefer automatic, I'm a lazy ass. All the cars that I have owned and still own were automatics. Except my '73 Celica which I swapped in a 5 speed manual.

This is shocking.....but I can't drive auto's.........Only manuals......:eek:

Originally posted by Moss1O6GTi
This is shocking.....but I can't drive auto's.........Only manuals......:eek:


How cant you drive auto's... well im gonna go with manual cuz its funner more work but funner u always have suttin to do b-sides bump ur music.

WHATS WITH THE PEOPLE DISSING TRUCKS AND TOYOTAS????

I have a standard truck and it is the best. Why do trucks have to be autos? I think autos are for lazy ass people and luxery cars. And the TOYOTAS Ando_Rules HAVE TONS OF SPEED.. i got one word for ya SUPRA and id love to see you race my neighbors tundra...he'd woop yo ass so fast youd be like :confused: wtf just happened :finger:

Originally posted by SilverLotus340R
WHATS WITH THE PEOPLE DISSING TRUCKS AND TOYOTAS????

I have a standard truck and it is the best. Why do trucks have to be autos? I think autos are for lazy ass people and luxery cars. And the TOYOTAS Ando_Rules HAVE TONS OF SPEED.. i got one word for ya SUPRA and id love to see you race my neighbors tundra...he'd woop yo ass so fast youd be like :confused: wtf just happened :finger:

Besides the Celica and Supra I don't feel there is an advantage to having a manual in the other Toyota cars, though I prefer them in cars because they are more fun to drive. The reason trucks should be automatic is because that no matter what if you take two identical trucks besides one having a manual and one having an automatic the automatic will out pull the manual every time. Automatics are by far better for towing and hauling stuff. If you don't use it for those things then I guess a manual would be just fine, but why the hell own a truck and not use it like one? Oh, and I'll take on your friend anytime, unless he has modded his engine something terrible I, and most others in here will hand him his ass.

I insist on driving cars with manual transmissions. :)

Manual because it's funner and coooooler to drive a 6-speed:D But strictly AUTOMATICS if I'm going to the track and really want to win. Outlaunches and outshifts the manual every day of the week. Really can't be beaten by a traditional non-race tranny/gearbox.

99% of the people saying a manual is "funner" and "cooler" are wannabe racers and teens (or close to it), who don't have a lot of experience in a wide variety of street and race cars. Iv'e been slalom racing for a couple decades, and many of the cars I've driven on teh track (and won with) have had performance built automatics. Especially the cars ith torquey V8s.

Fun? Maybe a little more fun, but here's the breakdown when going down a twisty road at speeds that won't get you arested:

Steer, brake, accellerate, steer some more. Unless it's REALLY tight, you don't even have to shift. So it's no different driving down that road with an automatic. If you're going really quickly, the difference is a bit greater, but not much: when you want to shift to keep the car in it's powerband, you need to push in a third pedal, too. But...

You can have fun on go karts that have no shifters. If that third pedal is the only thing that makes driving fun, bolt a shifter and a clutch pedal to your chair at home and STAY home. You'll get all the fun, without any of the associated costs. TO me, most of the fun is in teh speed and lateral G forces, that moving the third pedal has no part of.

To put it bluntly, it is NOT necessary for any "real" driving experience. If you think so, you're self limiting, inexperienced, and narrowminded, simply becasue the whole REASON for rowing through the gearbox does not exist on the street! And that's keeping a litle, peaky engine in it's optimum powerband, so as not to get caught out of the powerband when exiting a corner on a race track.

If you're not on a track, then YOU don't have a need to shift for yourself in anything but the most underpowered, small engine car. Oh, what's that? You want to? Fine. So do I (most of my cars have been manuals). But that doesn't mean that you need to use THAT "want" to denigrate performance cars with automatics. Nor should it blind you to the fact that what you want is absolutely unnecessary, even to drive fast or have fun. And it CERTAINLY doesn't put you in more control of a street car, or even an occasional race car. If you think so, you're just fooling yourself.

The reason traditional sports cars had manual transmissions goes to three main items:

First, it took many decades before working automatic transmissions became commonplace.

Second, early automatic transmissions robbed power badly, which isn't good on a small engine car, and were heavy, and not very reliable. None of them are good things for a sports car.

Third, small engine sports cars (which most of them were) have a very narrow powerband. In order to be in the right part of the powerband, a lot of gears were necessary. And every track was differnet, so that you had to match the available powerband to the car and to the track, so teh ability to change gearsets easily was, and stil is, very important. Not very easy to do in an automatic, but not necessary in a performance street car with a big engine.

Not a single reason sports cars had manuals was because of it being more "fun."

A perfomance tuned automatic shifts firm and fast (faster than you can shift a manual trans car) but it shifts too firm for a production street car, so all street automatics are tuned a bit soft, for the general buyer. But, just like you can do a lot of things to your engine to make mor epower and have better throttle response, you can do the same to many automatic transmissions, and end up with a trans that shifts faster than a manual, shifts exactly when you want it to, up or down, and yet can stil shift automatically for those times when you are stuck in traffic, and fun can't be had no matter WHAT you're driving...

my current car is a 4speed datsun 720 4x4 1 ton ute i love manuals especialy in Trucks. i have driven a few auto trucks and it takes all the fun out of goin 4x4ing in an auto.:flipa:

God gave me 2 arms for a reason one for stick one for wheel :silly2: I tend to get bored with autos cause you just drive. Slosh boxes :flipa:.I dont hate them too much though lol great for bracket racing and road he.... err nm:devil:

MT -- gotta go MT -- there is, and maybe it's just an illusion, more control over the car.

plus it can really "lunge" in first --- as in, i'm stuck in an intersection and here comes a big truck about to whack me and i need to just lunge out of the way.

cs

Manual, like my GTO. Hurst 4-speed. Or, of course, 6-speeds for most of today's cars.

Hey Supercar i got a hurst 4 spd too! does that mean my car is as cool as your GTO :hehe: nice ride!

Manual is so much funnier and I'd rather have one in a sports car any day of the week. I've owned all manuals until the car I have now. But if you wanna run consistent times at the track everytime... can't beat the auto. But I'd still rather own a manual lol

Manual Transmission. It's fun and adds more performance. Maybe 10 hp too!:D

Manual, so very much better =·)

Here in argentina in a workshop i ve been working one American Man came in saying something happened with the transmission of his car (Ford Ka). In this country is very dificult to find an automatic transmission car, all of them are manual anda in the USA all cars are automatic, so he came here thinking he would find an Automatic car, he whent 100km on the 1st Gear, till the motor burned out, he had no idea ir was not manual
i have no idea how he couldn´t realice the sound said to him tha something was wrong

but well. jojojo

OK so now that I ditched the Semi-auto all 3 viechles in my garage are manuals- myu daily driver a 6-speed. I just enjoy manuals more- they are a pain in the ass in heavy traffic though :(

Depend on the area you live .. If lots of autobahn stick shift is the best choice but if you live in the busy area and jam almost all the time have to be compromise with auto ... :)

Originally posted by Polygon


Besides the Celica and Supra I don't feel there is an advantage to having a manual in the other Toyota cars, though I prefer them in cars because they are more fun to drive. The reason trucks should be automatic is because that no matter what if you take two identical trucks besides one having a manual and one having an automatic the automatic will out pull the manual every time. Automatics are by far better for towing and hauling stuff. If you don't use it for those things then I guess a manual would be just fine, but why the hell own a truck and not use it like one? Oh, and I'll take on your friend anytime, unless he has modded his engine something terrible I, and most others in here will hand him his ass.
Why do people still think that you should only own a truck if you are going to use it. I love trucks. I like the way they look and all the aftermarket things that can be done. I don't use my truck as a truck I drive it b/c thats what I like and it's great to customize. I have a '99 Chevy Silverado, it's lowered 3" in the front and 4" in the rear and I have 20's all the way around. This is not my truck but this is what people who have trucks can do to them if they chose to go the custom route:

Personally, I'd go with manual trans, in the 360 it's fun (crashing first gear always surprises first timers) and the unusual layout of the gears is fun to work through.
But for automatic? If it were a DAF, I'd drive it!
The cool thing about the DAF was that you could floor it up to maximum velocity, then lift off the gas and it'd go even faster! Easily the coolest automatic trans car ever! And it was really good on ice too, there was no differential, but rather TWO transmissions (one for each wheel) :D

Originally posted by 2strokebloke
Personally, I'd go with manual trans, in the 360 it's fun (crashing first gear always surprises first timers) and the unusual layout of the gears is fun to work through.
But for automatic? If it were a DAF, I'd drive it!
The cool thing about the DAF was that you could floor it up to maximum velocity, then lift off the gas and it'd go even faster! Easily the coolest automatic trans car ever! And it was really good on ice too, there was no differential, but rather TWO transmissions (one for each wheel) :D

:D :D :D ... the way u tell it is funny .. :D

at for city use, travel, etc, etc,etc
ma: muscle cars, old exotic cars ( like from 60's-90's )

Whatever car I am driving, I prefer stick. Since my childhood, my parents have always opted for stick. I drive an average Corolla and it is a stick.My GF wonders how I can tell when it is time to down or upshift with all the bass in the car. I guess its something that comes with experience :cool:

Originally posted by honderian
Whatever car I am driving, I prefer stick. Since my childhood, my parents have always opted for stick. I drive an average Corolla and it is a stick.My GF wonders how I can tell when it is time to down or upshift with all the bass in the car. I guess its something that comes with experience :cool:

What does bass have to do with when you need to shift?

He can't hear the engine.

Originally posted by 2strokebloke
He can't hear the engine.

You dont need to hear it, you have a tach, and you should be able to feel when you need to shift...

Originally posted by TexasF355F1

Why do people still think that you should only own a truck if you are going to use it. I love trucks. I like the way they look and all the aftermarket things that can be done. I don't use my truck as a truck I drive it b/c thats what I like and it's great to customize. I have a '99 Chevy Silverado, it's lowered 3" in the front and 4" in the rear and I have 20's all the way around. This is not my truck but this is what people who have trucks can do to them if they chose to go the custom route:

Because, that is my opinion and it isn't going to change. By doing that to a truck you have completely ruined any usefulness that it once had. It is ugly, and you are trying to make it something that it can never be. Also you are driving a vehicle that you don't use it how it was built to be used; therefore you don't need it, not to mention that it is a gas hog. It just irks me to see people wasting fuel.

To be back on topic, I read all of Chris V's long winded post and I must say that it kind of pissed me off. You come in here giving us all a lecture as if you are some sort of seasoned racer that knows it all. Well, let me tell you that they use manuals in a lot of forms of racing like Indy, F1, NHRA, NASCAR, and many other forms. No matter how you cut it, the automatic has to work off the engine robbing power. Any experienced person driving an identical car, one with a manual and one with an automatic, will do better with the manual. Then again it does depend on the gearing ratios as well. The only times I can say that the automatic was better was in the early days of drag racing when the manuals didn't have the best syncros. Back then I would have gone with the automatic any day of the week.

These days I prefer a manual in my car, no question. Better performance and much more fun to drive; besides it doesn’t take any skill to drive an automatic. In my trucks or SUVs I prefer to have an automatic for better pulling.

Originally posted by dayna240sx


You dont need to hear it, you have a tach, and you should be able to feel when you need to shift...

None of my cars have a tach, and all of them have manual trannies, tachs are pansies.:D

depends on the senario, drag racing at the track automatics tend to launch better, shift quicker and be more consistent when setup right.
but on a road course a manual transmission allows you to have the car right in its sweet spot by selecting the gears urself

I prefer Tiptronic/Manumatic/AutoStick. Although, properly setup, contrary to what most people believe, Automatic (or some similar form, thereof) IS better for drag racing. I have a 1997 BMW Z3 2.8 right now, and it's a manumatic. When I just want to cruise, or even if I want to race, I can still use the Automatic, because it's programmed to be very sporty; but, if I'm in one of those weird moods, and want to use a Manual, I can just press a button and switch over to it. It may not be a true Manual, with a clutch etc., but you still get the shifting action... more or less, lol. :2cents:

driving isnt driving w/o a true manual trans.

Manuals can't be beat for any type of road course because you can hold the engine in the correct gear. But for normal straight line street racing, autos are as good as manuals if not better. Not all drivers can hit every shift perfectly.... :smokin:

Manual. Much more fun to me to be able to have some input in how the car is going to drive.

I've got both a manual and an auto.
They both have their pros and cons.
I don't know how to choose one over the other.
But now it seems like more and more people prefer automatics more stick. Even for the sports cars such as Porsche (except GT2), Ferrari 456 whereas they are all offered with automatic gearbox.
For the sports sedans such as AMG, Audi RS6, Jaguar R-Series are all offered with automatics only.
More and more performance cars are offered with automatics, because that is what the demand ask for. (People these days are just too lazy to shift.)

By merely stating that by using an Automatic in a sports car you are a lazy individual, would be largely unfair to a vast amount of people. Take my father, for instance. Back in 2000 he got a Corvette Convertible with a 6-Speed. He had the car until 2002, when he traded it in to get me the Firebird that I have. He had it for a whole 2 years, and you know how many miles were on it? Three-thousand miles, on the dot. I used to just think that it was because he just didn't go driving very often. Recently, while talking to him about different cars, I found out the truth. The real reason he didn't drive the car very often is because it was a Manual. It just got to the point for him where it was so greatly inconveniencing to drive the car around, to go anywhere with, that he simply chose not to drive it at all. For some people, and probably most, it's not that they're lazy - it's that they just do not want to be inconvenienced by something such as a Manual transmission. Especially here in Souther California where, during certain parts of the day, the traffic can be horrendous. Although, I do think that it's great what they're doing with the new technology in these Automatic transmissions. F1 paddle-shift technology, BMW's SMG technology, etc. It's all really wonderful. It's all basically leading up to the next-generation's sports car and/or sporty car's transmission of choice. Now, I'm not dissing Manual transmission's at all. I'm merely stating the other side of the argument. Well, for at least some/most of the people that use Automatic's. The rest? Well, I can't really vouch for them. Maybe they ARE too lazy. :icon16:

By merely stating that by using an Automatic in a sports car you are a lazy individual, would be largely unfair to a vast amount of people. Take my father, for instance. Back in 2000 he got a Corvette Convertible with a 6-Speed. He had the car until 2002, when he traded it in to get me the Firebird that I have. He had it for a whole 2 years, and you know how many miles were on it? Three-thousand miles, on the dot. I used to just think that it was because he just didn't go driving very often. Recently, while talking to him about different cars, I found out the truth. The real reason he didn't drive the car very often is because it was a Manual. It just got to the point for him where it was so greatly inconveniencing to drive the car around, to go anywhere with, that he simply chose not to drive it at all. For some people, and probably most, it's not that they're lazy - it's that they just do not want to be inconvenienced by something such as a Manual transmission. Especially here in Souther California where, during certain parts of the day, the traffic can be horrendous. Although, I do think that it's great what they're doing with the new technology in these Automatic transmissions. F1 paddle-shift technology, BMW's SMG technology, etc. It's all really wonderful. It's all basically leading up to the next-generation's sports car and/or sporty car's transmission of choice. Now, I'm not dissing Manual transmission's at all. I'm merely stating the other side of the argument. Well, for at least some/most of the people that use Automatic's. The rest? Well, I can't really vouch for them. Maybe they ARE too lazy. :icon16:

I think I used the wrong word.
What I was trying to explain was simply that people just don't want to or just tired of changing the gears themselves.
And your example is clearly one of the reasons why.
It is just too much trouble to drive stick shift in big traffics.
So people rather have an automatic which makes the life much easier.
Its not that people got "tired" of shifting, buit it is actually too much trouble and too complicated.

manual's a must for everthing. Like the cars with the slap shift and auto, so u can be lazy sometimes.

Don't matter for me, I like em both, but I'm glad my truck is AT, don't really ever race in it or anything, I use it as a daily driver, haul stuff every now and than, I really like my truck, although it's a bit inconvenient, (horrible mileage), but I knew what I was getitng into when I got my Dakota R/T.


One thing I don't understand, a previous poster said for towing, an AT is better, but than why do pretty much all Semi trucks, buses, and and anything with more than 2 axles, have generally a MT? I thought it was because AT genally lose more tourque, can anyone clarify this?

:nono: reviving threads that are 2 1/2 years old.

(But new people + old thread = new thread?)

MT for me, although it IS nice to have a break with an auto once and awhile.

God gave me 2 arms for a reason one for stick one for wheel :silly2: I tend to get bored with autos cause you just drive. Slosh boxes :flipa:.I dont hate them too much though lol great for bracket racing and road he.... err nm:devil:
When the automatic-equipped Mopars were faster than the manual transmission Mopars (and other cars) at the Winternationals in the early '60s, that kind of invalided the old term of "slushbox!"

Can't beat the 727, that's for sure.

For street driving a MT is much more comfortable to me because when you let up on the accelerator the vehicle actually slows down requiring less (sometimes no) braking. For drag racing I prefer auto. It's much more consistent and not as violent to your drive train. And yes auto's do use more hp just to turn them. But as you would expect not all auto's are equal in their power consumption. I remember reading a test where the Powerglide ate less hp than a 350 TH. Makes sense to me, less stuff to turn.

Got a MT and an AT...Doesn't really matter, but depends on mood, or if I'm feeling well or not...
Also depends on weather...

I'd hate automatic less if it didn't have that damn idle speed. I have shitty cars, a MT Ford Aspire and an AT Geo Metro, and I by far prefer the Ford... the Geo seriously will drive out from underneath you if you're not careful. Its fuel economy is terrible too... max i got was 30, average 23-25... my ford got 40mpg this last fillup. Why hasn't someone made AT cars that'll idle without still driving? I realize pushing into neutral is an option, but that can be a pain in the ass, as it slows down differently than if the engine is just at idle and its vacuum pressure is slowing the car down.

*shrugs* I personally prefer manual as I like shifting, if gives me more of a feeling of being in connection with the car. With auto's, I feel more detached.

Strange thing though is, our family's minivan (1986 Ford Aerostar) is a fully loaded model (XLT - Cloth interior, 5 speaker stereo, digital dash, overhead trip computer, power everything, cruise...yadda yadda) came with a Manual. A blatant 5 speed stick shifter attached to the 3.0L V6. Makes for an interesting vehicle.

Auto for track, and long drives in traffic.

Stick for having fun on the street.

My Trans Am is a 6-speed, and I love it. If it saw more track time though, I would swap it to an automatic.

i like manual there a lot funner to drive but feel an auto is better for racing just one less thing to worry about and for some auto transmisons you can get a full manual valve body so you still have to shift but dont have to worry about a clutch its a bit of a win win situation

I've never driven a manual. So I have to go with Auto by default.

I'd rather go with the stronger trans available, then work with what I got. Autos, you can build boost on a launch, and launch pretty good and consistant. manuals can be so much more simpler, in some situations (and remember simplicity is key :P), but I love having a t5 (man.) in my stang over the c6 (auto), because of the simplicity, weight and all, Granted I could no longer launch off lots of boost but could make up for it with a nice 2 step.

I think Trucks that doing a lot of towing (loads bigger than they should), should be using a 5 speed, I know it helps out for me. although auto makes things a little more convienient. also depends on if your E-Brake works good or not :P and if its a front wheel drive car and its purposes, I dont think one can judge them all the same. to each care there own for there own purposes.

Last Week I must drive my MT over 120Miles with a broken Clutch cable. I think AT is not so bad! :naughty:

Manual trans. by far. I'll never own an automatic sports car in my life. Auto is good for trucks or luxury cars but not for sport coupes/sedans. I love shifting gears, never get tired of it. ;)

i think jay leno said it best:
having an automatic gearbox is like having a mistress who can cook.

I'm a lazy driver i perfer Auto's lol i guess that is why my lude is my everday car and my Skyline isn't lol as that's mannual!
In an auto you can't really embarrase yourself, but in a mannual you can, by ahhh hitting the side of the gear, or completely missing the gear all together lol (guilty on a couple of occassions lol)

oi. I rented a mazda 6 to go 1200 miles (there and back). I hated that thing, it was automatic, but you could barely control the speed. You either went 20, or 40, or 80, there was no inbetween. The only way to control it on the freeway was with cruise.

Depends. If I have to drive a car powered by a 4 cylinder engine, then I definitely want a stick shift; no doubt about it. Given a suffiiently torquey V6 or V8, I prefer an automatic.

Overall, I prefer a well designed 4 speed automatic for everyday driving. The good ones deliver just as good highway mileage (if not better), are maintenance-free (no clutch to replace), and upshift to 2nd when starting on snow and ice to help with traction (like starting off in 2nd gear with a stick shift does) and let you hold it in a gear. They also prevent you from shifting into the wrong gear and overreving your engine and you can keep both hands on the wheel in case things get dicey.

The best part is when I'm out with my wife, I can have a few drinks and she can drive me home without me having to teach her how to drive stick. :D

When I see a stang gt or camaro z28 or ws6 or anything like that in an automatic, it feels like my soul was stabbed with a rusty spork.

I have an integra non vtec because I'm a poor high school student, it's slow, but I love manual now and forever.

When I see a stang gt or camaro z28 or ws6 or anything like that in an automatic, it feels like my soul was stabbed with a rusty spork.

Most musclecars back in the day had automatics, simply because they were best for drag racing. An automatic musclecar with a $50 shift kit in the trans will out accellerate and be more consistant than a manual version. (especially the old manual trans with external shift linkages, sometimes called "mystery shifters" for not knowing what gear you were going to get when you shifted).

There's as much difference between a mildly modded automatic transmission in a musclecar and a stock automatic slushbox as there is between a new GTO and a stock Cavalier. They may look similar, but that's about it.

Most people say, "Driving a car with a manual transmission puts you in better control, yada yada yda, blah blah blah, ad infinitum"

All of you have an arguement as to why, but none of you can present any facts. Here is a fact. Driving an automatic actually gives you less tasks to perform and allows you to concentrate more on the act of driving and therefore have better control. One reason that driving schools use autos. Driving a stick will let you have better control of engine rpm and gear ratio which is useful in a racing environment. Unfortunately, most people don't know the difference between a double downshift and a double espresso so that line of reasoning just doesn't wash.

You have neither the resources nor proper documentation to prove that moving a shift lever somehow improves your ability to view and comprehend other drivers on the road.

Last I checked, your hand movements have very little to do with your visual comprehension. Your visual ability and comprehension skills effects what you do with your limbs, not the other way around.

Bottom line is that on the street there is no difference in "control."

A lot of people, almost all, have a very vague conception of what controlling a car really is. Just because you can get behind a car and drive a manual doesn't mean you're "in control". I've seen some of the worst drivers get behind the wheel of a manual car, drive it terribly, and yet according to most of your speculations they were somehow "in control." With a manual transmission you are indeed in control of something, however, you aren't anymore in control of the car than a person driving a car thats automatic. What you happen to be in control of is simply your transmissions gear at any given RPM.

Next, people will say that moving the lever once every 5-10 minutes makes them concentrate on the road more, and that if they coun't do that, they'd fall asleep. Lord knowls using the brakes, steering, using the throttle, etc can't keep them awake. But by God, move a short stick an inch and a half every few minutes and you're magically kept awake!

And if you can't move that lever an inch, nothing else in the car can ever be "fun," either.

Tell you what, take the clutch pedal out of a car and make it an automatic. See how much control you have driving down the road. I'd be willing to be that you could still corner, brake, stay in your lane, accellerate, and get where you were going.

Now, take the brake pedal out, or the steering wheel. See how far you get.

Moving the clutch pedal is a VERY small part of being in control. Ask anyone racing fast go karts that don't have shifters at all. Fun AND in control.

And until you can quantify that "funner" then you need to stop using it as a "fact." Do you run around going "oh, look, I SHIFTED! Look! I did it AGAIN!" I'd like you to ride with me on my commute in my 5 speed PT and point out how it made it "funner" to drive. Or ride with me in my Fiat 124 Spider and point out how the transmission had anything to do with why the car is fun. Or ride in my Range Rover or my old Jag and point out where I was not in control. And I wish you could ride in my 400 hp V8 RX7 autocross car with the mildly modded automatic and point out not only where it was slow, but where I had less control OR had less "fun."

Hmmm. I checked on my commute. Shifting took up a grand total of 2 out of 20 minutes.

Buy what you like. if that happens to be a manual trans, great. ALL the cars I've bought new have had manuals, and I've decided to go with a 5 speed manual in the custom '63 Comet I'm building. But don't use spurious lines of reasoning to justify it OR put down other choices.

Automatic.
Simply because I've yet to experiance a Manual.

Tiptronic - the best of both worlds

I prefer AT, because it allows both my hands to be free for more accurate steering and traction sensing through the steering column. If I'm driving hard through turns, I like the greater amount of steering control afforded by constantly having both my hands on the wheel.
Although, I have occasionally driven cars with a Tiptronic shifter, and it is nice to have the option to switch to manual, for control over the gears. To me, the best setup to have is the one which allows me the greatest amount of options so that I can adapt to any driving condition.

Most musclecars back in the day had automatics, simply because they were best for drag racing. An automatic musclecar with a $50 shift kit in the trans will out accellerate and be more consistant than a manual version. (especially the old manual trans with external shift linkages, sometimes called "mystery shifters" for not knowing what gear you were going to get when you shifted).

There's as much difference between a mildly modded automatic transmission in a musclecar and a stock automatic slushbox as there is between a new GTO and a stock Cavalier. They may look similar, but that's about it.

Most people say, "Driving a car with a manual transmission puts you in better control, yada yada yda, blah blah blah, ad infinitum"

All of you have an arguement as to why, but none of you can present any facts. Here is a fact. Driving an automatic actually gives you less tasks to perform and allows you to concentrate more on the act of driving and therefore have better control. One reason that driving schools use autos. Driving a stick will let you have better control of engine rpm and gear ratio which is useful in a racing environment. Unfortunately, most people don't know the difference between a double downshift and a double espresso so that line of reasoning just doesn't wash.

You have neither the resources nor proper documentation to prove that moving a shift lever somehow improves your ability to view and comprehend other drivers on the road.

Last I checked, your hand movements have very little to do with your visual comprehension. Your visual ability and comprehension skills effects what you do with your limbs, not the other way around.

Bottom line is that on the street there is no difference in "control."

A lot of people, almost all, have a very vague conception of what controlling a car really is. Just because you can get behind a car and drive a manual doesn't mean you're "in control". I've seen some of the worst drivers get behind the wheel of a manual car, drive it terribly, and yet according to most of your speculations they were somehow "in control." With a manual transmission you are indeed in control of something, however, you aren't anymore in control of the car than a person driving a car thats automatic. What you happen to be in control of is simply your transmissions gear at any given RPM.

Next, people will say that moving the lever once every 5-10 minutes makes them concentrate on the road more, and that if they coun't do that, they'd fall asleep. Lord knowls using the brakes, steering, using the throttle, etc can't keep them awake. But by God, move a short stick an inch and a half every few minutes and you're magically kept awake!

And if you can't move that lever an inch, nothing else in the car can ever be "fun," either.

Tell you what, take the clutch pedal out of a car and make it an automatic. See how much control you have driving down the road. I'd be willing to be that you could still corner, brake, stay in your lane, accellerate, and get where you were going.

Now, take the brake pedal out, or the steering wheel. See how far you get.

Moving the clutch pedal is a VERY small part of being in control. Ask anyone racing fast go karts that don't have shifters at all. Fun AND in control.

And until you can quantify that "funner" then you need to stop using it as a "fact." Do you run around going "oh, look, I SHIFTED! Look! I did it AGAIN!" I'd like you to ride with me on my commute in my 5 speed PT and point out how it made it "funner" to drive. Or ride with me in my Fiat 124 Spider and point out how the transmission had anything to do with why the car is fun. Or ride in my Range Rover or my old Jag and point out where I was not in control. And I wish you could ride in my 400 hp V8 RX7 autocross car with the mildly modded automatic and point out not only where it was slow, but where I had less control OR had less "fun."

Hmmm. I checked on my commute. Shifting took up a grand total of 2 out of 20 minutes.

Buy what you like. if that happens to be a manual trans, great. ALL the cars I've bought new have had manuals, and I've decided to go with a 5 speed manual in the custom '63 Comet I'm building. But don't use spurious lines of reasoning to justify it OR put down other choices.


that the Best explanation ive ever heard about a Automatic Verses a Manual.
im gonna save this and send it to my friends :)
Automatic for life :evillol: i love smokin people in my 90Corsica 3.1 Auto. love hearing that Honda shift behind me and look at his face at the next light. well that if he would even look at me after that :smokin:

ill never drive anything but a automatic. i tried a manual and it drives me nutts, i just wanna drive i dont liek shifting up and down and clutch in and out. if i was racing in nascar mybee when the only place your going is none stop fast but in the city i see no point.
i say it all in the driver. i race everyone but i never go more than 10 miles over speed limit but to that point i almost win every time. no need to go faster i like having my insurance being only 45 dollers a month. it all sounds liek online talk but ive got about 30 wins and 2 loss record lol. my car is almost done in the garage 1990 for thunderbird SC with 220 HP automatic, im sure nothin can touch me in that :P . its all in the driver it dont matter what you got if you cant drive it.
i would love to have someone put me ina race car on the track i can almost garantee wins but seems like everyone on the local track do Manuals. but yea. i see nothing special in Manuals. just a bunch of wasted timem shifting when you dont really need to be doing in the conditions we drive in. me go sleepy now...

Tiptronic - the best of both worlds

:1:

A MT gives you more controll and enjoyment when driving your car.

A MT gives you more controll and enjoyment when driving your car.

=Chris V]A lot of people, almost all, have a very vague conception of what controlling a car really is. Just because you can get behind a car and drive a manual doesn't mean you're "in control". I've seen some of the worst drivers get behind the wheel of a manual car, drive it terribly, and yet according to most of your speculations they were somehow "in control." With a manual transmission you are indeed in control of something, however, you aren't anymore in control of the car than a person driving a car thats automatic. What you happen to be in control of is simply your transmissions gear at any given RPM.

Tell me where I was not in control of this automatic equipped car:

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/adesso/rex2.wmv

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/adesso/rex3.wmv

And point out where amnaul would have given me more control.

I prefer good manual trans cars, and all the cars I bought new have had manuals. But both of your statements are false as general, blanket statements.

^ Manual is better. I beleive it gives you more controll on turns, where you can keep a car in a gear at a high RPM so you have less gear transition time. I'm not saying autos are bad. A bad driver is a bad driver no matter what type of transmision you have (no arguements there). And I'm not bashing on autos, just stating my opinion on manuals.

^ Manual is better. I beleive it gives you more controll on turns, where you can keep a car in a gear at a high RPM so you have less gear transition time.

I did that with the automatic in those vids, above. So how again would a manual have given me more control?

Again, there may be fractionally more control over teh gear you are in or the slippage of the clutch in SOME situations. But 90% of controlling a car has nothing to do with the transmission. And most of what DOES involve using the transmission can be done as easily with an automatic, as I showed in those autocross runs, where I was in just as much control of teh car, it's placement, it's speed, it's turn in, it's braking, and how it went through the course (and by extention, how it goes down the road) as if it had a manual. In fact, that partiualr car HAD a manual trans in it for the first season I autocrossed it, when it still had the rotary in it.

So not only do I have a good idea of how the identically set up car works with both the rotary and V8, I have a good idea of how much control over the car I had with the identically suspended car in similar conditions with a manual and an automatic.

;)

As I mentioned before, here is a fact. Driving an automatic actually gives you less tasks to perform and allows you to concentrate more on the act of driving and therefore have better control over the car. Control over the car means getting it from point A to point B. One reason that driving schools use autos. Driving a stick will let you have slightly better control of engine rpm and gear ratio which can be useful in a racing environment, but not completely necessary. Unfortunately, most people don't know the difference between a double downshift and a double espresso so that line of reasoning just doesn't wash, as a reason for stating you have more control over a car driven on the street.

A good manual transmission feels good. So does a good automatic. A bad automatic feels like shit. So does a bad manual. Blanket statemens about either are nonfactual, and not even subjectively true. ;)

i drove semi's for a while back in the day, and when you got 27 gears to shift through all day, the last thing you wanna do is keep shifting all the way home, i go with auto, oddly enough though, i do usually manually shift my auto :p

and that reminds me of those fast and the furious movies, they show people shifting so often i thought the evo came with a peterbuilt transmission.

for me, the simplicity of a manual trans is best. i like four speeds 'cause im lazy like that.

I did that with the automatic in those vids, above. So how again would a manual have given me more control?

Because, unlike your automatic a manual doesn't have to go through an electronic committee to shift. In a manual you can go straight from fourth to second and keep the RPMs up all the while for a great exit speed. With an automatic you shift and then the computer sits there and thinks about whether it wants to let you do that or not and most of the time the answer is not. Also, even when it lets you the shift isn't always immediate.

Granted I know that you're going to say that you can fix an automatic to work how you want and blah blah blah. I don't want to have to fix the tranny to do what I want. My manual does that without any trickery. Oh, and you still have parasitic drain with an auto, so whatever. Also, 99.9% of automatics that come in cars are crap for performance, and you can't argue with me there.

I still stand by my opinion that automatics are for lazy people and manuals are for true enthusiasts.

my current is an auto because its a hand down from my father, but i much prefer a manual, unless its a truck/suv, high-class luxury (rolls royce-level, not benz's), and vans.

manual is just more fun, period. the only time i'd prefer an auto is when i'm stuck in rush hour traffic here in NYC. i'm dead tired from lack of sleep for morning commute, or dead tired from overtime on the evening commute. thank god my daily driver's an auto for that.

i drove semi's for a while back in the day, and when you got 27 gears to shift through all day, the last thing you wanna do is keep shifting all the way home, i go with auto, oddly enough though, i do usually manually shift my auto :p

and that reminds me of those fast and the furious movies, they show people shifting so often i thought the evo came with a peterbuilt transmission.

isnt it funny, they will be shifting every time the camera goes to them in F&F.

I'm not old enough to drive but to hell with it - AT because it seems easier

Because, unlike your automatic a manual doesn't have to go through an electronic committee to shift.

Neither did my automatic. I thought you knew more about cars than that! Electronic automatics didn't start happening until the '90s. Before that, they were hydraulic/mechanical. The AOD in my RX7, the C6 in my 429 Torino GT, and the TH400 in my '66 Chevelle 454 and Lemans 455 had zero electronics in them, STOCK. Until you learn that, and figure out what a shift kit does in one, you need to refrain from casting your opinions in stone. Seriously.

In a manual you can go straight from fourth to second and keep the RPMs up all the while for a great exit speed. With an automatic you shift and then the computer sits there and thinks about whether it wants to let you do that or not and most of the time the answer is not. Also, even when it lets you the shift isn't always immediate.

Sorry, didn't happen in the car I posted. No computer. Instant shifts that woudl bark teh tires up or down when under ful throtle.

Again, you really don't know what you're talking about.

Granted I know that you're going to say that you can fix an automatic to work how you want and blah blah blah. I don't want to have to fix the tranny to do what I want.

And yet you have no pronblem with changing your suspension for more performance, and changing your ENGINE and ALL it's internal components for more performance... you look at a car and see the potential in teh engine and suspension when modded, but an automatic can ONLY be how it is stock, huh? What a hypocrite. Oh, adding different cams, a turbo (or larger turbo), intercooler, different ECU, higher compression pistons, larger swaybars, shorter, stiffer springs, adjustible struts, stickier tires, and all is perfectly viable, but putting a shift kit in an automatic doesn't count.

Again, you really don't have a clue.


I still stand by my opinion that automatics are for lazy people and manuals are for true enthusiasts.

And I stand by my opinion that you're extremely mechanically ignorant. You really don't know what you're talking about, and what you DO know, you're huypocritical about.

Look Chris, you're taking what I'm saying far too seriously. Like I said, it is MY OPINION. I am not trying to say it is fact. I know that automatics didn't really have electronics until the 80s. However, you failed to quote me when I said that 99% of automatics on the road today do and I would have to buy more than a shift kit to make them do what I want them to do. Also, they aren't the strongest things out there either. I like modding my car but with most of today’s automatics it is just too much damn work to make one comparable to a manual.

Once again this is just MY OPINION and I stand by it.

since when were we comparing modified manual cars with unmodified automatic ones?

WOW people can never NOT argue can we. I prefer a manual because when I press the brakes while I enter a turn then press the accelerator I dont have any lag. ALSO I am into drifting, drifting is easier in an auto. Also I like to use engine braking downhill or exiting the interstate.plus, if you burn up a clutch, its like $120 if you burn up an automatic tranny, its like $2000.

I like Manuals, for a few reasons.

1. They last longer than automatics. My tranmission is 40 years old, still works like new.

2. They don't rob horsepower. Automatics use 20-40 horsepower (typically) to work.

3. You can get better fuel milage (if you want it.)

4. You can always be in control, you can shift when, and how you want exactly... no waiting for the electonics to kick it in and what-all.

5. Manual cars are just more fun. It gives you more to do than just press on the gas and wake up when you arrive. :p

i love my manual, and would feel crippled without it. when it comes to performance on an all around street car, manual is a must. however, i would prefer an automatic for daily driving. its simple, when im in traffic, driving somewhere with friends, trying to talk on the phone, or smoking a cigarette, shifting and start/stoping is a pain in the ass. i can do any of these things while driving an auto safely, but in my manual, i just run out of hands!

i love my manual, and would feel crippled without it. when it comes to performance on an all around street car, manual is a must. however, i would prefer an automatic for daily driving. its simple, when im in traffic, driving somewhere with friends, trying to talk on the phone, or smoking a cigarette, shifting and start/stoping is a pain in the ass. i can do any of these things while driving an auto safely, but in my manual, i just run out of hands!

That's because the KEY is to CONCENTRATE ON DRIVING. At least in a manual, you have no choice but to pay attention to what you're doing with the car. In an automatic, you can smoke and talk on the phone and such and forget you're even driving, and plow into something.

forgeting that im even driving is a little extreme. ive forgoten that i was smoking a cigarette though and gotten ash everywhere.

BTW is that your video in your sig? wtf is that song called!?

BTW is that your video in your sig? wtf is that song called!?
Yes, it is mine. Song is "Ruin" by Lamb of God. The small one at the end is "Diabolical" by Mindless Self Indulgence

Yes, it is mine. Song is "Ruin" by Lamb of God. The small one at the end is "Diabolical" by Mindless Self Indulgence

AHHH ruin is my new fav song. thankyou sir.