I am having trouble deciding what to do next with the GTC project. I have some money to spend and it has come down to a few choices for me and each has their pros and cons:

Finish the brakes:

Now I've already replaces the front pads and rotors. However they are just a basic set of Raybestos pads. I want to go with Hawk pads all around, steel braided brake lines, some better brake fluid, and I want to sand blast the calipers and powder coat them. I wanted to go with a big brake package and the only one I could find was pretty expensive. I decided to stick with the stock 11" vented rotors in the front and 10" vented in the back since this is a street project and won't see the kind of abuse you would see on the track. I do plan to take it to the auto-x courses but I don't think that I would see a difference with the big brake kit there. The upside to this is it's cheap. The downside is that means I would have to bleed the system remove the calipers and take them somewhere to powder coated not to mention I don't even know what color I would want to paint them.

Wheels & tires:

This is what I really wanted to do to the car first, but the brakes took over by the front pads falling apart from age. I haven't been able to decide on a wheel yet but I want to put on BFG KDWs. The upside to doing this is that the Futura tires that came on the car when I bought it are cracking and they just plain suck. The new tires mean better grip and with a new set of 17" wheel some better looks as well. The downside is that this would be pretty expensive and the suspension is also shot so taking corners fast is still out of the question.

Exhaust:

Yeah baby!

I would love to have a better exhaust on this car. On these Turbo Mopars that is the biggest restriction is the exhaust. What I want to replace it with is full three inch mandrel bent stainless steel pipe, a Borla straight through muffler, and Catco cat, and a nice stainless steel polished Borla tip. This would be a huge improvement over the stock exhaust, and the worse than stock muffler that is on there now. The upside is that the engine can exhale now and I can get rid of a lot of unneeded back pressure not to mention a much better sound and look. The downside is that means the turbo will spool quicker meaning that I'll hit my boost cutout faster. That can be fixed with this Grainger valve I picked up.

So, help me out and let me know which you think I should fix. I know that I really should get that basketball sized dent in the rear driver side quarter panel fixed, but right now that is just too expensive. I also don’t know a body shop around here that I can trust yet to do some “unnoticeable” welds.

I'm saying wheels and tires for now.

i'm going w/ wheels and tires too, better grip helps you accelling decelerating and turning whereas any of the others only helps with one

Brakes, going fast won't mean shit when your stuck in a ditch somewhere.

I'm down with Brakes. I agree with Amish kid. Late...

tires and wheels here a set of sticky tires will help your braking accel not as much as something dedictaed like pads or catback but also looks sharp and helps you turn

thats my thought

Bigger turbo, brakes and tires are for wussies.

:D

Wheels and tires...to counter Amish->You cant end up in a ditch if you cant get your car rolling.

i'm saying fix the suspension and get the exhaust

Exhaust, make that mofo sound like badass it was meant to be

Just to let some of you know, the car stops great as it is now, but would benefit from the upgrade, just so you know that the brakes do work. In fact they are better than my Sebring’s brakes. Also, when I am talking about replacing the exhaust, I am not talking about a catback system. I am talking about a full exhaust from the turbo all the way back.

Oh, and Redneck, don't get me started. I would love to install a bigger snail. Too bad it isn't in the budget right now. I am look at about $1,600 for the turbo, $500 for the header, and I would guess about $200 to plumb everything. I also want to install a Spearco intercooler at the same time which is another $500.

So much to do and so little money. Anyone want to donate to the "Help Clint build his project car" fund? It is a worthy cause. :biggrin:

i say go with exhaust, make that baby breath better, my suggestion is intake, exhaust(down pipe, test pipe, cat back, port the elbow)mbc, and a fuel pump with adj, fpr, and it should be a beast..

1

So much to do and so little money. Anyone want to donate to the "Help Clint build his project car" fund? It is a worthy cause. :biggrin:

Only if Clint is willing to donate to the "Help Robert get the ///M3 of his dreams fund". Remeber folks, its tax deductable.

who stops? :) go for the exaust... then maybe brakes... if it's that important heh

exhaust cause there isnt anything negative about that upgrade, only yr turbo will cut off earlier but you will be able to fix that so....

Well as long as the brakes can still lock your wheels on dry pavement after you put the new tires then you don't need upgraded brakes. Normally the only advantage big brakes have, is fade resistance under heavy use, otherwise even small brakes are enough to lock up wheels so your only limitation are the tires. So unless you plan to do road racing with numerous laps or drive down canyons a lot you won't require big brakes.

The exaust would be nice but right now its not that vital.


So this takes me down to the wheels and tires. You need those because everything on that car rest on them. And you are still running those original tires then you most certainly need new ones. Running on those tires is right down dangerous. Follwing this should be suspension work.

Also KDW are very nice but since this is your weekend car maybe you should just uncompromise and go with a full on dry tire like a BFGoodrich KD or for budget concerns for a Falken Azenis Sport. Or heck even better an R compund tire like the Toyo RA1. The dry grip will be unparalleled and they will still have some wet performace since they are not slicks.

I would say go with the exhaust. whats the point of driving around in a car thats ultimately restrictive, and has a worse than stock muffler on it. If you decide not to go that route, buy new tires, stave off the rims and use the stock ones for now. buy new pads, paint for the calipers is cheap, and look at a cat back, at least for now. then you can kinda knock out all three and be happy.

Well, it looks like the exhaust is in the lead. However, I am leaning more towards wheels & tires now. Neutrino’s post knocked some sense into me. He has seen the tires in person, he knows how shitty of a condition they're in. I’ve been looking at prices for everything and here is what I came up with:

Exhaust: $700
Wheels & tires: $900 - $1,500
Brakes: $400 - $500

Well as long as the brakes can still lock your wheels on dry pavement after you put the new tires then you don't need upgraded brakes. Normally the only advantage big brakes have, is fade resistance under heavy use, otherwise even small brakes are enough to lock up wheels so your only limitation are the tires. So unless you plan to do road racing with numerous laps or drive down canyons a lot you won't require big brakes.

Yeah, as it is now they have no problem locking up the front. Being that they are 11" vented in the front and the car only weighs 2,800 pounds I think that is plenty. I agree; this is street project that will see the auto-x course and the drag strip. I will never use it for road racing which is the only place I can see the big brakes being an advantage. Also, I hear that getting better pads can help significantly reduce fade as well.

The exaust would be nice but right now its not that vital.

Good point.

Seven hundred bucks for a full 3" mandrel bent exhaust is enticing, but like you said, at this stage it really isn’t needed yet.

So this takes me down to the wheels and tires. You need those because everything on that car rest on them. And you are still running those original tires then you most certainly need new ones. Running on those tires is right down dangerous. Follwing this should be suspension work.

Also KDW are very nice but since this is your weekend car maybe you should just uncompromise and go with a full on dry tire like a BFGoodrich KD or for budget concerns for a Falken Azenis Sport. Or heck even better an R compund tire like the Toyo RA1. The dry grip will be unparalleled and they will still have some wet performace since they are not slicks.

Yeah, and that rear one with the slow leak has been getting worse. Like you've said, the tires are the only safety feature that you have that actually makes contact to the road. Yeah, I do need to get that suspension done next. I'm having trouble figuring out a spring/absorber combo for the coilovers I would want to use. As for tires, I was going to go with the KDWs to save some cash, but you're right, I don't need any wet traction. Especially when this car is done, it won't be seeing a wet road, period! I think I'm going to go with a set of 17" wheels with some Falken Azenis 225/45 wrapped around them. Then when the project is done get some full on R compound tires.

Well, I guess that settles it, wheels & tires for now. Only problem is finding a set of wheels that I like that will also fit my car.

Thanks everyone for your time and responses. Also, feel free to post some suggestions for wheels. I am looking for something relatively light, no chrome, and in 17" x 7" 5x100 bolt pattern with a 40mm offset.

Also, Robert, I'll be glad to donate when a money tree sprouts out of my ass! :lol:

Might want to take a look at some BBS. You see them more on euros but I think they have the right style for your car. Too many good looking ones IMO to name. Heres a few...
http://www.streetdreams.org/wheels/thumbs/bbs_rx_silver.jpg
http://www.streetdreams.org/wheels/thumbs/bbs_rk_silver.jpg
http://www.streetdreams.org/wheels/thumbs/bbs_lm_silver.jpg

Get new tires, but don't get BIGGER tires...bigger tires will just slow your car down in a straight line because they are heavier and add more rotational inertia...Some of the guys on maxima.org with my same wheel set-up are taking off the heavy-ass 17" stock front wheels and replacing them with ghetto-ass 15" GXE steelies when they go to the strip, and gain like 3/10ths in the 1/4 alone, just because of the reduction in rotational inertia...I say go with the exhaust, it'll be music to your ears, plus it will make your car a bit faster...and can't you take your slow-leaking tire to some tire place and get it slimed for free? You can around here, I did it once where my tires had like 50 miles on them and I ran over a piece of a chain-link fence randomly lying in the road, you should look into it.

Just get new tires and look for a catback :)

but thats me. you can fill in the rest later, but for now, you would pretty much knock out two stones with one throw.

you never stated that the stock rims were bad... so why not keep them a bit longer.

Dude if your suspension is shot then spend the money there! If theres anything left over I say save it for some wide 17s and good tires in the future.

Get new tires, but don't get BIGGER tires...bigger tires will just slow your car down in a straight line because they are heavier and add more rotational inertia...Some of the guys on maxima.org with my same wheel set-up are taking off the heavy-ass 17" stock front wheels and replacing them with ghetto-ass 15" GXE steelies when they go to the strip, and gain like 3/10ths in the 1/4 alone, just because of the reduction in rotational inertia...

True but with bigger tires comes better traction. It really depends on the power you are putting down. If you had a civic you would want 15in wheels which take less tq to turn. On the other hand if you had a mustang cobra with 15in wheels you would just light up those babies down the strip. So being that he pland to mod, with the kind of power those GTC's are capable of and them being Fwd he'll need the extra grip.

The order i would have done was

Brakes
Wheels & Tires
Exhaust

Get new tires, but don't get BIGGER tires...bigger tires will just slow your car down in a straight line because they are heavier and add more rotational inertia...Some of the guys on maxima.org with my same wheel set-up are taking off the heavy-ass 17" stock front wheels and replacing them with ghetto-ass 15" GXE steelies when they go to the strip, and gain like 3/10ths in the 1/4 alone, just because of the reduction in rotational inertia...I say go with the exhaust, it'll be music to your ears, plus it will make your car a bit faster...and can't you take your slow-leaking tire to some tire place and get it slimed for free? You can around here, I did it once where my tires had like 50 miles on them and I ran over a piece of a chain-link fence randomly lying in the road, you should look into it.

Well, I've tried that. It must be leaking from the stem. The fact is though that they aren't worth trying to fix because these tire are cracking. They are in piss poor condition, they have soft sidewalls, and not to mention that they're Pep Boys Futura tires. Not what I would call a good tire for ANY car.

The reason that I want to go with bigger wheels is because I want to go around turns faster more than I want to go in a straight line faster. Granted I will be drag racing it, but I would rather have it be able to take a turn. Currently the car has 16" x 6" wheels on it with 205/55 tires. If I go up to 17" x 7" with 225/45 tires not only will I have more of a contact patch on the road and a stiffer sidewall I also won't be adding much rotational inertia since I am going with lower profile tires and lighter wheels.

I see what you're saying, but I am not building this car as a drag racer.

Just get new tires and look for a catback :)

but thats me. you can fill in the rest later, but for now, you would pretty much knock out two stones with one throw.

you never stated that the stock rims were bad... so why not keep them a bit longer.

Well, I have a daily driver, so I have all the time in the world to do what I want with this car. It is a project car, so I am in no hurry and I don't want to cut any corners or rush things along. Like I said, the problem with the stock wheels is that they are too skinny. I can't fit the size tires I want on them not to mention they are the biggest bitch to clean. I don't want to waste money getting tires on these wheels when I plan to replace them anyhow.

Dude if your suspension is shot then spend the money there! If theres anything left over I say save it for some wide 17s and good tires in the future.

I wouldn't call it shot. It is good for what I am using it for. I only take the car out on the weekends to keep the engine heat cycled, the seals lubed, the bushings worked, and the battery charged. If you let a car sit it will rot. Like I said, I don't drive this car on any sort of regular basis right now since I have the Sebring as a daily drive so I don't have to worry about replacing the suspension promptly. The tires are more of a safety hazard right now.

Also, Racer D12, I've looked at BBS wheels and I like them, but they are just too expensive. I am looking at spending no more than $150 per wheel.

Sorry for the double post, but I've found a set of wheels and tires that I like. Tell me what you guys think.

Konig Reasons: Graphite with polished face.

http://www.discounttiredirect.com/product/wheels/konrea.grm.ang.jpg

They are 17" x 7" 5x100mm bolt pattern with a 40mm offset. They also weigh in at 19.8 pounds per wheel.

Falken Azenis: ST115.

http://www.discounttiredirect.com/product/tires/falhz6.ang.jpg

I am getting them in 225/45 17".

I wanted to get some of your guy's opinions on wheels weight. How much is too much? Do you think that 19.8 pounds is too much on a 17" wheel? I wish I knew how much my stock wheels weigh so I would have something to compare them to.

That seems alright, you're looking at 80 pounds all around basically.
Pretty decent looking rims too :)

poly I like the wheels (at least in the picture) and sub 20lbs is not bad for a 17 in wheel.


But about the tire i was refering to the Azenis Sport not the regular azenis.

This is the tire i meant:
http://www.discounttiredirect.com/direct/findTireDetail.do?cs=225&pc=28643&rd=17&ar=45
http://www.discounttiredirect.com/product/tires/falhz5.ang.jpg

this is the model everyone was using at our autocross chapter. It has very big blocks so it will resist chunking and feathering and will offer tremendous grip. And it has enough watter evacuation chanells so it will be good in the rain. I heard a rumour that its the best autox tire in the wet actually.

Anyway i think this is the best route by far with the wheels and tires. Next i would adress the suspension. This way you start by making sure the car stays on the ground and you will be free to continue with all the powermods afterwards.

As far as suspension see if ground control makes a coilover set for your car, they really are top notch.

The tires and wheels seem like a good choice. If it were my brother's 2.2L project, I'd say exhaust (that 600ES needs to get uncorked) but for your tank Le Baron I'm saying wheels & tires. ;)

They look like they'd be good-looking wheels, but I'd really have to see the car in order to come to any sort of conclusion.

I found another wheel...they are only 17 lbs per wheel...17x7's...5x100mm lug pattern...40mm offset...$129/wheel (tirerack.com)...i dunno if you have seen these ones yet or if they are a decent wheel or not...or if you like them...i personally think they look decent and if i had the money for wheels n tires i'd be puttin these on my car...but here you go:
http://www.tirerack.com/images/wheels/kazera/swap/kazera_kzv_ci3_l.jpg

Unfortunately the car that i found the size you are looking for is on a 89 Beretta GT...but it is the same size you are looking for so it should work...

poly I like the wheels (at least in the picture) and sub 20lbs is not bad for a 17 in wheel.


But about the tire i was refering to the Azenis Sport not the regular azenis.

This is the tire i meant:
http://www.discounttiredirect.com/direct/findTireDetail.do?cs=225&pc=28643&rd=17&ar=45

this is the model everyone was using at our autocross chapter. It has very big blocks so it will resist chunking and feathering and will offer tremendous grip. And it has enough watter evacuation chanells so it will be good in the rain. I heard a rumour that its the best autox tire in the wet actually.

Anyway i think this is the best route by far with the wheels and tires. Next i would adress the suspension. This way you start by making sure the car stays on the ground and you will be free to continue with all the powermods afterwards.

As far as suspension see if ground control makes a coilover set for your car, they really are top notch.

Yeah, that is the exact wheel I am going to go with. As for the tire, I can't believe that, only $109 per tire. The regular Azenis are $93 per tire. That is a damn steal for $109. Well, I just got off the phone with someone at Discount and they said they will price match the website since their store price was higher. I'm going down there tonight to order the wheels and the Azenis Sports. I should be able to get it all done for $1,100 or less.

I'll have to look into Ground Control for the coilovers. Yeah, the suspension is going to have to be next now.

I found another wheel...they are only 17 lbs per wheel...17x7's...5x100mm lug pattern...40mm offset...$129/wheel (tirerack.com)...i dunno if you have seen these ones yet or if they are a decent wheel or not...or if you like them...i personally think they look decent and if i had the money for wheels n tires i'd be puttin these on my car...but here you go:

Unfortunately the car that i found the size you are looking for is on a 89 Beretta GT...but it is the same size you are looking for so it should work...

Yeah, for some reason Tire Rack doesn't think that 17" wheels will fit my car. I don't mind those wheels, but I like the Reasons a lot more. I like wheels that are concave.

Also, here is a picture of the GTC and the current wheels:

http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/7/web/619000-619999/619537_12_full.jpg

http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/7/web/619000-619999/619537_21_full.jpg

They aren't bad looking wheels, but like I said, they are a bitch to clean.

Thanks for all the comments and suggestions guys! :cheers:

Yes, those wheels that you previously mentioned would go well with your car...go for it!

yeah those reasons are nice...they would suit ur car better...and everything for like 1100?? awesome! if i was still workin at the shop i used to work at, i could have gotten the Kazera's (the wheel i posted) and tires for like 800...but of course i quit...kind of...they more or less told me that they didn't have room for me n e more cuz of school...even tho i am goin to school for auto technology...AND they said they would sponsor me...that's what sucks about little family owned and operated shops...oh well...

Yeah, that is the exact wheel I am going to go with. As for the tire, I can't believe that, only $109 per tire. The regular Azenis are $93 per tire. That is a damn steal for $109. Well, I just got off the phone with someone at Discount and they said they will price match the website since their store price was higher. I'm going down there tonight to order the wheels and the Azenis Sports. I should be able to get it all done for $1,100 or less.

I'll have to look into Ground Control for the coilovers. Yeah, the suspension is going to have to be next now.





Yeah Azenis Sport are pretty much the best performance deal. I think this is the best thing you could have do for your car for now. Those futuras are right doen scarry, they look like they are about to rip themselves apart anytime now. Not to mention that they have about no performance whatsover. The differnce should be imense.

Make sure to post the pics as soon as you install them. Also as a reminder don't push the new tires for at least a week till they break in and heat cycle.

Sweet!

I'll post some up this weekend. I just ordered them today. However the work order has the ST155s listed and I never even mentioned those to them. I even handed him a shit with the printout from the website for the Sports. I just hope they order the right tires. Not bad for only $1,103 out the door.

Sweet!

I'll post some up this weekend. I just ordered them today. However the work order has the ST155s listed and I never even mentioned those to them. I even handed him a shit with the printout from the website for the Sports. I just hope they order the right tires. Not bad for only $1,103 out the door.


Nice but IMO you should double check. Even if you handed them the exact tire specs never underestimate their ability to fuge up. And if on the order sais ST115 its a good chance they probably think Falken Azenis is only one model. Call them again tomorow. Looking at the speck of the 115 its only a good performance all season tire so there will be a huge differnce between that and the max performance sports.

Well, I called them on the way home, and he assured me that he would order the one on the sheet I gave him, but I still worry. I just don't want to get down there on Saturday and they have the wrong tire. Hell, I might even call tomorrow to double check.

No matter, I'll make a stink and make sure they fix it or I can just take my business elsewhere, that always gets them. :)

Well, I called them on the way home, and he assured me that he would order the one on the sheet I gave him, but I still worry. I just don't want to get down there on Saturday and they have the wrong tire. Hell, I might even call tomorrow to double check.

No matter, I'll make a stink and make sure they fix it or I can just take my business elsewhere, that always gets them. :)


well the good news is that you have several days till saturday to learn kung-fu and kick their asses if they order the wrong tire.

So saturday we'll either get to see pctures of your new wheels or we'll see the guys from dicount tire fly out trough the windows.



Btw i just remembered, didn't Discout Tire had an advertising where they show an old woman throwing a tire through their shop window and their comment was that if you don't like it you can return it. There you go problem solved. :evillol:

awww i wish i had found this sooner!!!

The Azenis Sport is an amazing tire my .02:

i used ONE set for 3 years of autoX and street driving (though... only good for about 2 years of autoX)

this on a 220AA treadwear tire that's supposed to last 20,000miles...

they are very good tires.

though, i would have said WAIT FOR THIS!!!!: http://www.vulcantire.com/azenis_rt615_t.htm

though, i would have said WAIT FOR THIS!!!!: http://www.vulcantire.com/azenis_rt615_t.htm

Oh, you sonuva. . . . :biggrin:

I guess I can get a set of those when I wear these down to chords.

Sweet!

I'll post some up this weekend. I just ordered them today. However the work order has the ST155s listed and I never even mentioned those to them. I even handed him a shit with the printout from the website for the Sports. I just hope they order the right tires. Not bad for only $1,103 out the door.

well I belive to have found the problem which caused the confusion. I took the liberty of bolding it out. Next time, if you would like less confusion, you might want to hand them a sheet.

And of course the second post replies:

No matter, I'll make a stink and make sure they fix it or I can just take my business elsewhere, that always gets them. :)


I don't think you'll need to make a stink sice you already made one. :lol:








PS. I just saw that spelling error followed by the second post and I fell of my chair laughing. Its just so funny. :biggrin:

Oh, good lord. :spit: