Codes 171 & 174 TSB # 03-16-1 update

Persistence pays off. After go back and forth with Ford and the dealer on doing the TSB # 03-16-1 repair on my 99 3.8L Windstar, Ford finally agreed yesterday to cover 80% of the cost of the repair. Both Labor and Parts.
I had all the documentation that I had brought the Van in for service several times under Warrenty with the spark knock problem. They actually did TSB # 00-21-8. That TSB includes the first 4 steps of the 03-16-1 TSB. Basically changing the Valve Cover and vacuum line and reprogramming the PCM.
If you have this problem don't give up hope that Ford will finally step to the plate and help pay for the repair for you.

PS
I see on this new TSB that it supersedes TSB numbers 03-4-7 and 00-21-8. I have #00-21-8. Does anyone have access to 03-4-7?
:cool:

Congratulations on your success with Ford. You had the two key requirements:
1.Persistance
2.DOCUMENTATION...In my mind, the most important... and the least understood.

To paraphrase 12Ounce a bit:

"Knowledge is power". Don't be afraid to let them know what you know.

I also find that Ford dealers all have different policies. I have a dealership near myself that always quotes list price on all parts. Since I live in a big metropolitan area there are several Ford stores. There is one that I know of that will give a better price on parts than list without me even having to ask.

I was curious how much your total bill was (of which they covered 80%)? I have exactly the same problem and have even read the TSB myself. My local dealer today quoted me $1200 to do the repairs! I don't even need the new valve cover. I was too shocked to argue.

I was curious how much your total bill was (of which they covered 80%)? I have exactly the same problem and have even read the TSB myself. My local dealer today quoted me $1200 to do the repairs! I don't even need the new valve cover. I was too shocked to argue.

I am having the work done tomorrow so I will post some specifics tomorrow evening or as soon as I can.

I am having the work done tomorrow so I will post some specifics tomorrow evening or as soon as I can.


What a surprise. They did the entire TSB 03-16-1. Ford agreed to cover 80% of the repair and I was surprised at how low the bill was. I think they just charged wholsale for the parts as I got quote yesterday for the Isolator bolts at $10.63 each x 8 and they charged just $6.77 each this morning. The Seals were $2.17 each x 6.
They charged $19.30 for the Vacuum line and $59.02 for the valve cover.
Total bill for the repair $282.72

My cost $56.54

I did the work for the TSB (minus the PCM part) for about $157. This included the new valve cover, eight isolator bolts, the new u-shaped vacuum line and 6 seals. The vechicle was great for about two weeks.

No error codes.

About one week ago the light came back on. This time it was P0401, low EGR flow. Another thread here mentioned the DPFE as the culpret. I changed it out this evening. The DPFE priced out at $51 out the door.

After the repair and opened up the old DPFE. Water was in there and the little circuit card was completely corroded as were attaching wires. The pressure differential sensor contained inside had significant corrosion on both sides of the device.

While doing the TSB for the isolator bolts and related problems, I am curious of the DPFE failure might have been the problem all along. No way to tell now... just curious.

Regards.

If I understand this TSB correctly, it requires replacement of only one valve cover???


I did the work for the TSB (minus the PCM part) for about $157. This included the new valve cover, eight isolator bolts, the new u-shaped vacuum line and 6 seals. The vechicle was great for about two weeks.

No error codes.

About one week ago the light came back on. This time it was P0401, low EGR flow. Another thread here mentioned the DPFE as the culpret. I changed it out this evening. The DPFE priced out at $51 out the door.

After the repair and opened up the old DPFE. Water was in there and the little circuit card was completely corroded as were attaching wires. The pressure differential sensor contained inside had significant corrosion on both sides of the device.

While doing the TSB for the isolator bolts and related problems, I am curious of the DPFE failure might have been the problem all along. No way to tell now... just curious.

Regards.

If I understand this TSB correctly, it requires replacement of only one valve cover???

Yes. I think they refer to it as the Left VC. The one closest to the front of the vehicle.

I have a 2000 windstar se. cel came on at 45,000 miles. found out the codes were 171/174. searched the forums and found a wealth of great knowledge. (thanks to all) I took the van to the closest ford dealer to feel them out and letting them know that I knew the exact problem with the vehicle. They told me what I already knew and told me the cost of the repair would be $700.00. What a joke. I was set to do the tsb myself and priced the parts at the same dealer. $10.63 each bolt and they would not budge on the cost. I left. called the next closest dealer and was quoted a price of $6.77 each bolt. The price differences are amazing. I deciced to talk to a service writer at this dealer to see if I could get the parts at cost. I told him my story and let him know how upset I was that ford was blowing everone off with this problem. This guy at first seemed like he didn't care. He came back 10 minutes later and told me he would do the tsb for a $100.00 dollar deductible. They did the complete tsb for $100.00. So yes knowledge and persistence do pay off.....................p.s. the tranny in my van blew out at 20,000 miles. sure glad warranty was in effect.

I did the work for the TSB (minus the PCM part) for about $157. This included the new valve cover, eight isolator bolts, the new u-shaped vacuum line and 6 seals. The vechicle was great for about two weeks.

No error codes............................................. .................................................. .....

I am curious of the DPFE failure might have been the problem all along. No way to tell now... just curious.

Regards.

The code for the DPFE is P0401 or 402 and the codes for TSB-03-16..(?) is P0171/P0174. If you had the 171/174 codes then the TSB was most likely required. IF you had 401 then the DPFE was the trouble.

Did you check the codes before doing the TSB? If yes then you just had a coincidence. If not maybe you only needed the DPFE. What turned off the CEL after the TSB?

I had the CEL about a year ago and I was convinced I needed the TSB because it is so common. I bought a code reader and discovered I only needed a DPFE. Now a year later I have the 171/174 codes.

If you did do the TSB without needing to rest assured you probably will have needed to do it soon enough.

The code reader indicated P0171/174. About two weeks later P0401 showed up. What turned off the CEL after the TSB? I did, using the code reader and ERASE.

I think you had both problems. They are both very common with the Windstars. It is a coincidence that they failed so close to each other.

I don't see the 171/174 codes being activated by the DPFE. The 171/174 are usually caused by air in the intake that did not pass through the MAF. This is usually caused by an intake leak somewhere.

I Have The Same Problem With My 99 Windstar But Havent
Got Around To Fix Yet.i'am Curious About What The Dpfe
Is And Where It Is Located So I Can Check.

Thanks Gitzy

Gitzy,

You should get your codes read.

The DPFE is on the intake on the front right of the engine. It has two rubber hoses that connect to the EGR inlet tube and an electrical harness with 3 conductors. It is a small box about 3 inches by 2 inches. It is either aluminum (old design) or black plastic (new design). It is held on by 2 hex head bolts

Here is a link to some pictures of my '96.

http://community.webshots.com/album/201931518cScpNK

The pictures are too big to load here.
In the picture, that shows the whole engine....I have labeled a number of items....including the DPFE.
It has not really changed much over the life of the windstar.
You can blow the picture up real big by clicking on "view full size".

Persistence pays off. After go back and forth with Ford and the dealer on doing the TSB # 03-16-1 repair on my 99 3.8L Windstar, Ford finally agreed yesterday to cover 80% of the cost of the repair. Both Labor and Parts.
I had all the documentation that I had brought the Van in for service several times under Warrenty with the spark knock problem. They actually did TSB # 00-21-8. That TSB includes the first 4 steps of the 03-16-1 TSB. Basically changing the Valve Cover and vacuum line and reprogramming the PCM.
If you have this problem don't give up hope that Ford will finally step to the plate and help pay for the repair for you.

PS
I see on this new TSB that it supersedes TSB numbers 03-4-7 and 00-21-8. I have #00-21-8. Does anyone have access to 03-4-7?
:cool:
I have the same problem and the dealer I purchased the Windstar from will only cover 50% of the cost to repair because I have not used them for regular maintenance - i.e. oil changes. They made two attempts to fix it under warrenty prior to the issuance of TSB 03-16-1. Did Ford agree to 80% because you got your oil changed by their Service Department?

I have posted these in other threads... thought I would touch this one too. This information will be a helful addition to others already posted here.

Please check http://leckemby.net/windstar/windstar01.html for more information on the Isolator Bolt TSB and DPFE problems.

Thanks to all who have contributed to this forum! I used the info from pcitizen's link and repaired my p0171,p0174 code problem yesterday (2000 Windstar 3.8L w/61k miles). Parts cost $169 including the large seal that goes between the two halves of the upper intake. (Part #XF2Z-9461-AA) I replaced the valve cover, U-shaped vacuum line to pressure regulator and all other upper intake seals and isolator bolts. I also removed the cowling to help access the rear of the motor. While I was there I replaced the spark plugs since there was room to access the three in the back. Took about 6 hours including an hour for lunch. Much of the time was used to clean parts and ports. Thanks pcitizen! Excellent job!






I have posted these in other threads... thought I would touch this one too. This information will be a helful addition to others already posted here.

Please check http://leckemby.net/windstar/windstar01.html for more information on the Isolator Bolt TSB and DPFE problems.

Thanks for the kind comments rider54!... and I was thinking about taking that web site down. Guess not.

PCitizen.

Web site for TSB repair is awesome! The only thing missing is the procedure for resetting and then relearning the ecu. I lost the info on relearning, but to reset you remove negative battery cable, turn on headlights (to drain capacitors - yes it's necessary and yes it works), wait 15 minutes, turn off headlights and replace negative battery cable.

I found the reset and relearn info here somewhere thru a link to a Ford Master Mechanic. His advice on how to do it was rock solid and worked on my 99 Windstar.

Web site for TSB repair is awesome! The only thing missing is the procedure for resetting and then relearning the ecu. I lost the info on relearning, but to reset you remove negative battery cable, turn on headlights (to drain capacitors - yes it's necessary and yes it works), wait 15 minutes, turn off headlights and replace negative battery cable.

I found the reset and relearn info here somewhere thru a link to a Ford Master Mechanic. His advice on how to do it was rock solid and worked on my 99 Windstar.

BikenFish.... supply the details and I'd be happy to include them on the site.

PCitizen

I was curious of the same thing after reading all of these threads so i changded the DPFE first, a week later light was back on with just the 171 and 174 codes, don't worry your money was well spent probably needed both repairs

I think you had both problems. They are both very common with the Windstars. It is a coincidence that they failed so close to each other.

I don't see the 171/174 codes being activated by the DPFE. The 171/174 are usually caused by air in the intake that did not pass through the MAF. This is usually caused by an intake leak somewhere.

my 2000 windstar is showing only code po174 (system too lean bank 2) - it does not show code 171 and 174, only 174 -does this imply a different issue , ie. i was told it was likely an O2 sensor
Thanks, Pete

Pete,

It is probable that your leakage is in its early phase... and over time both sets of O2 sensors will see the problem, giving you both codes.

The two banks will not have sensors of the exact same sensitivity...nor will the "extra" air caused by a leak be equally distributed to both banks.

If, however, the single code persists over time...just kindly ignor all I've written above.

If you want to go to the effort... just swap the sensors between the two banks and see if the code changes.

This brings up an interesting point. I assume that the leak is by the port seals due to the isolator bolts losing their torque(due to rubber degredation). If this is true I would expect an arbitrary port seal to leak before another and this should only cause one bank to read lean initially.

It seems in reality that most always have both the banks or at least they happen extremely close to one another.

Is this because once the bolts start to loosen it happens very quickly on more than one bolt or is it because the leak is actually around the bolts and not the port seals and thus both sides are actually lean?

Not an important question but one I have always been curious of.

I have posted these in other threads... thought I would touch this one too. This information will be a helful addition to others already posted here.

Please check http://leckemby.net/windstar/windstar01.html for more information on the Isolator Bolt TSB and DPFE problems.


Thanks a bunch, buddy. I did mine today and everything worked great. I printed your entire site and used it as a guide. A couple of notes:

1. Definetely remove the cowl. It is crazy not to and some kinda easy. It really gives you mad room.

2. I asked the dealership for all the parts for the TSB and they included the large upper plenum seal. Total cost $145 (they gave me 10% military discount)

3. My Haynes manual says inch pounds on the torque for the isolator bolts and the upper plenum bolts. So it's 89 inch pounds.

4. Took me a heck of a long time because I noticed that my IMCR (intake manifold control rod--the butterfly valves down the intake) controller was missing a connector. Ford wouldn't sell it to me without selling the whole controller for $140. I couldn't find one at the junk yard so I had to fabricate something out of a part from a different engine. I used a torch to melt and bend and resize one and it worked like a champ.

Thanks Mapdog. I have updated the site based on your input. Oh. BTW: Do you have the Ford part number for the plenum-half gasket (the big one). I'd like to add that to the site as well.

PCitizen

okay....I purchased the Isolator bolts, port seals and the upper-to lower gasket (just in case) for my 99 3.8 L to do the TSB.

The port seals (and upper to lower gasket) are not what I expected, nor do they seem to look like any photos of used ones that I have seen. These were a Blue rubber that almost looks like a thick rubber band with texture.

Did I get the correct ones????

I don't remember "blue". And I remember rubber o-rings...not exactly circular... but with "ribs", not "texture".
But they may have been up-graded since I bought mine.

I don't remember "blue". And I remember rubber o-rings...not exactly circular... but with "ribs", not "texture".
But they may have been up-graded since I bought mine.

"Ribs" does sound like a better description. They are thicker than I would have expected too.

The seals are baby blue with a very slight ribbing that is molded perpendicular to the seal's length. The aren't round and are nothing like an o-ring or gasket.

The seals are baby blue with a very slight ribbing that is molded perpendicular to the seal's length. The aren't round and are nothing like an o-ring or gasket.


Wow this thread will never end.........

Okay I bought the seals and the bolts (I have had the problem about 6 months now) and I am waiting for a nice day. This weekend it should be about 10 degress C in Toronto so I am starting to get prepared. I was reading the excellent post that someone did with the whole step by step procedure.

My question though:

From reading the step by step it seems like one really does need to remove the cowling to get the upper off. I think the author stated something like the upper intake is 1/2 inch too high or the cowling is 1/2 inch too low.

Does the cowling need to be removed? Should it be removed? Anyone who has done this repair should have a valuable opinion. I am also planning on replacing the spark plugs. Are there any benefits using the Motorcraft over the autolites?

Thanks

After doing the job and posting the web site to which you reference I recommend (now) removing the cowling. Though I didn't do this myself, I believe it would have made for a single person job.

BTW: Thanks for the comps.

PCitizen

After doing the job and posting the web site to which you reference I recommend (now) removing the cowling. Though I didn't do this myself, I believe it would have made for a single person job.

BTW: Thanks for the comps.

PCitizen

Ah the author.......................

I did not offer enough compliments. It is fantastic, well written and very informative. I wish you wrote repair manuals for a living.

I feel like I have practically done the work without yet turning a wrench.

When you remove the cowling (the second time), it will take you about 15 minutes MAX! The first time, you're investing a bit more time for the learning process.

I wouldn't even consider filling the brake reservoir without removing the cowling.

DRW1000, mentioned Motorcraft or Autolite spark plugs, I have not used the Autolite.....so I cannot comment. The only thing that I will comment is to make sure that you get the DOUBLE PLATINUM plugs, which both Motorcraft and Autolite offer....so I would guess you would be fine with either one (Both used to be made by the same company).

Don't do this, the GROUND prong will wear on one side of the motor...

Do this, and they will be good for another 100K miles.

This thread may be long, but is one of the most important on the Windstar forum.....for owners of '99 and newer.
Great information....and pics on that link.

Well we may as well have this thread complete if it is going to be around forever.

Does anyone know the torque for the following:

1)Spark Plugs - (7-15 Ft-lbs)
2)Isolator bolts - (89 in-lbs)
3)the bolts holding the two alves of the upper intake together - (89 in-lbs)

The above are what I think my Haynes suggests. Does anyone agree or disagree or has a different sources?

Thanks.

About those torque specs... the ones for the isolator bolts and intake sound right on. As for the spark plugs... well... I've been working on cars since 1973. I have never torqued them with a torque wrench. Just made them good n snug. Over all this time, I've only had one unscrew itself. Agreed... torquing to specs is the best practice. The measurement you provided seems about right.

BTW: 89 in. lbs. is about 7 ft lbs. Only difference between the two (in. to ft.) is precision.

PCitizen

About those torque specs... the ones for the isolator bolts and intake sound right on. As for the spark plugs... well... I've been working on cars since 1973. I have never torqued them with a torque wrench. Just made them good n snug. Over all this time, I've only had one unscrew itself. Agreed... torquing to specs is the best practice. The measurement you provided seems about right.

BTW: 89 in. lbs. is about 7 ft lbs. Only difference between the two (in. to ft.) is precision.

PCitizen


I guess I am not quite as old (lol) but I have been working on cars since about 1978 and I never used a torque wrench on spark plugs either. I just figured it was time I started. I never used to use a torque wrench on wheels either but I have since seen the light.

Thanks for the reply

Wheels. Yes... it's a must there or distortion of the disks will occur. Old... perhaps in reference to the young and young in reference to the older.

I did this TSB today and it took me about 4 hours. It wasn't nearly as hard as I thought it would be. I would like to thank pcitizen for all his efforts, they really helped out. If you weren't on the other side of the country I'd buy you a beer. My Windstar has 100,000kms and I didn't have any fault codes coming up but I did have the knocking sound. It would quiten somewhat when I pressed on the intake manifold. When I was at the Ford dealership getting the parts, they said they had done 3 with the same problem that day! I didn't replace my upper intake halves seal. The Ford dealer said I could probably get away without replacing it if my old one looked okay. Does anyone know why you have to replace the valve cover? Can you get away without replacing it? They didn't have one in stock so I haven't replaced it yet. From what I understand, oil will get into the intake manifold by the small hole in the valve cover. The oil then wrecks the isolator bolts. Will the new isolator bolts be able to withstand oil? If so, I should be able to keep my original valve cover. I'm thinking that Ford may have included the valve cover to be over precautious. Please feel free to put in your two bits because I have limited knowledge about this stuff. I would rather not spend the $130 that they quoted me for one. BTW my isolator bolts, port seals, and vacuum line cost $113 CDN.

If your windstar is a '99 or 00, you may want to get the valve cover.... If it is newer than that.....you already have the improved type.
The main concern that I would have with excessive oil being drawn in.....is carbon build-up in the cylinders.....

You might try shopping around by checking dealerships through www.parts.com
You will need to find a dealership that will ship to Canada. Other choice might be to see if you can get one through a junk yard.

Wheels. Yes... it's a must there or distortion of the disks will occur. Old... perhaps in reference to the young and young in reference to the older.

PCitizen................I didn't mean to call you old...............Just a couple of years on me.

Sorry if it may have offended you.

I did this TSB today and it took me about 4 hours. It wasn't nearly as hard as I thought it would be. I would like to thank pcitizen for all his efforts, they really helped out. If you weren't on the other side of the country I'd buy you a beer. My Windstar has 100,000kms and I didn't have any fault codes coming up but I did have the knocking sound. It would quiten somewhat when I pressed on the intake manifold. When I was at the Ford dealership getting the parts, they said they had done 3 with the same problem that day! I didn't replace my upper intake halves seal. The Ford dealer said I could probably get away without replacing it if my old one looked okay. Does anyone know why you have to replace the valve cover? Can you get away without replacing it? They didn't have one in stock so I haven't replaced it yet. From what I understand, oil will get into the intake manifold by the small hole in the valve cover. The oil then wrecks the isolator bolts. Will the new isolator bolts be able to withstand oil? If so, I should be able to keep my original valve cover. I'm thinking that Ford may have included the valve cover to be over precautious. Please feel free to put in your two bits because I have limited knowledge about this stuff. I would rather not spend the $130 that they quoted me for one. BTW my isolator bolts, port seals, and vacuum line cost $113 CDN.

Yeah I had the same reservation in regards to the $130 CDN they quoted me. I have read people purchasing it for under $50 US. Even with the exchange Ford of Canada is charging too much.

I seriously doubt that the hole makes that much of a difference (IMHO). I think it is just a great way to sell more parts for what can only be described as a design defect. I was thinking of simply blocking the hole with a nut, bolt, cotter pin (or similar guarantee locking device) and a piece of gasket material. I could probably do this for about $1.00. I can do this anytime so for now just the bolts, seals, and plugs.

PCitizen................I didn't mean to call you old...............Just a couple of years on me.

Sorry if it may have offended you.

No offense taken. Shiznit... I'm a grand pap at the ripe age of 42. I kinda like the sound of that.

PCitizen

No offense taken. Shiznit... I'm a grand pap at the ripe age of 42. I kinda like the sound of that.

PCitizen


LOL........here I am calling you old...............I'm gonna hit 43 in 2 weeks...........

1973 eh.................You started working on cars at an early age.

LOL........here I am calling you old...............I'm gonna hit 43 in 2 weeks...........

1973 eh.................You started working on cars at an early age.

Sure did... I was working on minor stuff like oil and spark plugs. Also was rebuilding lawn mower engines and mini-bikes.

Always been into this kind of stuff.

Okay............I sent my wife to get the spark plugs from Ford.

My owner's manual states AWSF-42EE. She was given AGSF42FM. I caled and I was told the part number had changed. I would tend to believe the original was superceded perhaps but not the part number change.

Anyway I just wondered if anyone had purchased plugs recently from Ford and what part numbers did they receive.

I DO remember that the number had changed....I donot remember the numbers right off....but I would expect that you have the correct plugs.
Autozone was sold out when I went for mine....and I ended up getting the same number from the FORD dealer as Autozone listed.

Okay I finally got around to doing my Isolator bolt fix. It was a beautiful day so I took full advantage of it. I also replaced my plugs while I was at it.

I thought I would share my experiences:

1) I removed the cowl as advised and I was glad I did. I think it made it a lot easier.
2) I had a difficult time removing one of the bolts in the cowl and it snapped. Anyway it was the only real trouble I had so no big deal.
3) The plugs were somewhat difficult. Reaching for the rear ones was a bit of a challenge and pulling the rear boots off was a task. It took me at least an hour after the cowl was off. My owner's manual stated the gap as 0.042-0.046 but the sticker under the hood was 0.052-0.056. I went with the sticker. I used anti-sieze and a dielectric grease on the boots. I hope none are cross-threaded. (fingers crossed). The plugs were the originals and had abour 1350000 Km. They came out relatively easy but they were in pretty bad shape. It seemed like I had the E suffix plugs on the front bank and the EG suffix on the rear bank. I didn't expect them to be in that sequence but I knew there would be two types.
4) PCitizen's instructions were right on the money and I followed his advice. The port seals and bolts was time consuming but easy. I could not believe the amount of oil in the intake. My EGR ports were relatively clean which surprised me. The intakes were very dirty. I cleaned it all up and even replaced the main gasket although I don't think there was anything wrong with the old one. I did not replace the valve cover or the fuel regulator hose. I tried to determine where the intake leaks occured and assume they were through the port seals but I could not find any obvious signs.

Got it all together and it actually started. I erased the codes and I will know in a week or two if I solved the 171/174 codes. The whole job including the plugs took me about 7 hours. I suppose I am slow and of course my 6-year old was helping.

Thanks to everyone for all of the help and advice.

Well I have been driving around with my code reader and it looks like the 171/174 codes are gone.

"Knock on wood"

I am now trying to understand the failure mechanism here. Although I could not see where the unmetered air entered I will accept that this was the cause of the codes. What I don't understand is why would the PCM not just increase the fuel until the O2s did not report lean? I assume there was not that much air entering as it would cease to run so one would assume it was compensatable.

I considered that maybe the numbers didn't add up for the PCM and so it tried to compensate but still erred but yet another thought was that the PCM could have simply "explained" the more air than metered to simple age of components and added the parameters to learned data.

Anyway just thinking out loud but if anyone cares to discuss it I would love to listen.

By the way I still can't get the EV monitor to run. but this is not a 171/174 are of specialty and a monitor not running just means that conditions have not existed for the PCM to run the test but...........

Hi all this is a great thread, I know its a few months old but I was searching for this problem...I too have the p171 and 174 codes and would like to try and fix this myself...I have a few questions..
first off though thank you so much to pcitizen for posting that website it looks like it will be a great help...
I have a 99 windstar with 89,000 km's on it.
The only problem we have is the cel and maybe a bit worse gas mileage.
first question what harm does this do to continue driving it?
what did you guys use to clean the parts with? egr valves and intake port faces etc? I was told not to use any chemicals that are harsh to rubber etc..
are the isolator bolts torque specific? I heard you can brake them easy and they only have 1 use so you have to buy a new one if you back them out?
thanks again for all the help...
I think I might do this on monday ....unless we buy a new van this weekend the wife wants a freestar...lol
Dave

It's Kind Of Hard To See The Leak Due To The Fan Is Infront Of It Specially When The Fan Is On. Did Changed The Bottom Gasket Total Of 6 And The Insulators Total Of 8. Did Not Change The Top Gasket And Fuel Regulator Tube Or Hose Due To Still In Good Condition. Did All That Work 2 Weeks Ago And P0171 And P174 Are Still Not On. Normally It Takes Couple Days And Engine Light Come On. Let You Know If The Light Come Back On... Good Luck...

Hey Dave_29,

I just did mine. So I will try and answer your questions:

Harm - My problem started in November of 2004 (or there abouts) and I waited until it got warm enough for me to do it in March. I had a couple of very hard starts in January but of course my plugs were old too. I did notice my gas milage went down (at least it seems better now). I have heard that lean can hurt the cats. I doubt you would do any major damage in a week or two and I obviously wasn't too worried. When you CEL flashed it is time for quick action.

Clean - I used mineral spirits, throttle body cleaner and lots of rags.

The Isolator bolts must be torqued and in sequence to prevent subsequent leaks. I think you are talking about 1 time use only. I think this is common on head bolts but I doubt it on these ones as they are not torqued too much and I doubt they "stretch" when installed. At least I hope not because I had to loosen all of mine after I torqued them becasue on of the rags I used to block the ports got wedged betwwen the intake and the port seal.

Lessons learned- I was advised to buy the big gasket that seals the upper and lower plenum. I did not want to take the chance and since I had it, I replaced it, but I didn't need to. I also doubt that my seals needed to be replaced. I probably could have just replaced the bolts. I sensed this going into the procedure but having that much of the engine disassembled I did not want to take the chance. If I knew then I would have just purchased the bolts.

By the way............I thought I would be smart and skip a couple of Pcitizen's steps only to discover I had to do the steps later on anyway. His procedure is right on and I had a print out out with me for reference.

thanks again....
did you need any special tools? or sockets etc?
I broke my deep 10 mm changing the wheel bearings on my car....I so I better get some new ones lol...
Dave
Hey Dave_29,

I just did mine. So I will try and answer your questions:

Harm - My problem started in November of 2004 (or there abouts) and I waited until it got warm enough for me to do it in March. I had a couple of very hard starts in January but of course my plugs were old too. I did notice my gas milage went down (at least it seems better now). I have heard that lean can hurt the cats. I doubt you would do any major damage in a week or two and I obviously wasn't too worried. When you CEL flashed it is time for quick action.

Clean - I used mineral spirits, throttle body cleaner and lots of rags.

The Isolator bolts must be torqued and in sequence to prevent subsequent leaks. I think you are talking about 1 time use only. I think this is common on head bolts but I doubt it on these ones as they are not torqued too much and I doubt they "stretch" when installed. At least I hope not because I had to lossen all of mine after I torqued them becasue on of the rags I used to block the ports got wedged betwwen the intake and the port seal.

Lessons learned- I was advised to buy the big gasket that seals the upper and lower plenum. I did not want to take the chance and since I had it I replaced it but I didn't need to. I also doubt that my seals needed to be replaced. I probably could have just replaced the bolts. I sensed this going into the procedure but having that much of the engine disassembled I did not want to take the chance.

By the way............I thought I would be smart and skip a couple of Pcitizen's steps only to discover I had to do the steps later on anyway. His procedure is right on and I had a print out out with me for reference.

I can't remember the size but I did need a metric socket or 2 so yeah replace the 10mil. I would recommend changing the spark plugs if they are due. It is a good opportunity when the top of the engine is gone. It took me about 7 hours to do the job including the plugs and the hour I spent having a beer with my neighbour who came over to see what I was doing. I took my time so it could be done in about 4 hours if you're quick.

Let us know when you are doing it ands I will check this forum throughout the day in case a question pops up that I can help with.

Thanks again...I think I will do this today or tuesday...
about the isolator bolts...how do you know the sequence to re install them? will that be in the manual?
Dave
I can't remember the size but I did need a metric socket or 2 so yeah replace the 10mil. I would recommend changing the spark plugs if they are due. It is a good opportunity when the top of the engine is gone. It took me about 7 hours to do the job including the plugs and the hour I spent having a beer with my neighbour who came over to see what I was doing. I took my time so it could be done in about 4 hours if you're quick.

Let us know when you are doing it ands I will check this forum throughout the day in case a question pops up that I can help with.

It was in my Haynes and I am that certain any manual that describes the re-assembly will have the torque sequence.

Basically it is like a cylinder head or intake manifold (and most items that need to be torqued and that have multiple fasteners.

Start at the inside and criss-cross. Therefore if you number the two rows of bolts from left to right and then top to bottom 1-2-3-4 and the 2nd row 5-6-7-8 you would torque in the foillowing order. 2-7-6-3-4-5-1-8. This may not be exactly what is called up but is using the same logic (middle to sides) of course there are about 4 equivalent sequences as well depending on which one you start at.

I dont see a hole in my valve cover under the pcv valve.
so I didnt buy one yet....is varsol ok to clean the plenum etc...? I am taking this apart right now...
thanks again
Dave