Codes 171 & 174 TSB # 03-16-1 update

I just signed up so this is my first post. I just wanted to say a big "THANKS" for the instructions.
Here in Ontario, as of Jan 1/13 they now do the emissions test off the computer, not the tailpipe. So, you will not pass if you have a check engine light on.
My 02 Windstar has had the light on for a few years. It did not pass the emissions test and got the codes P1071/P1074.

I found your website and the instruction page at http://leckemby.net/windstar/windstar01.html

The Ford dealership quoted me $550 for this fix. The van isn't worth much more than that. It only has 220 000 kilometres and I'm not ready for a new vehicle yet.
My level of car repair experience is that I change my own oil.
But, I read over this thread and read the instructions on the website a few evenings and gave me enough confidence to try it. I ordered the parts kit from Summit for $95.
I took the laptop out the garage and got started. I took the cowl off following this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QtPZYA8QWB8
The whole procedure took me 5 hours. The only "oh crap" moment was when a socket slipped out of my fingers and went down one of the intake holes. $4 flexible magnet wand saved the day!
Anyway, the codes cleared no check engine light but still had P1000 for almost two weeks in order to complete the drive cycle. But then, took it back in, passed emissions!

Sorry for the long first post, but I just had to say a big THANK YOU!!!!

Looking for some advice for my 2001 Windstar. The van recently developed a surging idle. I replaced the IAC and some vacuum lines that where questionable. This seemed to help, but only for about a day. Now, when idling, the van jumps from 700 RPM to 1500 RPM when I turn the wheel (just enough to engage the PS pump).
I upgraded the isolator bolts a few years ago, but decided to check them out again. While I was at it, I replaced the lower intake manifold gaskets, EGR valve, thermostat, air filter, coil pack, plugs and wires. I also cleaned the MAF sensor, and throttle body. Now the surging idle is gone, but the RPMs still jump when turning the wheel. It is getting dangerous to back into a parking spot, or turn while waiting for traffic.
Could this be the IMRC, or IMRC shafts leaking at the intake manifold? MAF sensor? Vacuum line to the brake booster? Any help would be much appreciated.

Go to Autozone and see if any any error codes come up (they check it for free). Check your IMRC's, disconnect the arms and vac line on each one. Be careful not to damage plastic bushings where you disconnect them. Push the arm into the IMRC, then hold your finger over the vac hole. The arm should stay in. If not the diaphragm is leaking and the IMRC needs to be replaced. Also check the arm that was hooked up to IMRC moves freely.

Go to Autozone and see if any any error codes come up (they check it for free). Check your IMRC's, disconnect the arms and vac line on each one. Be careful not to damage plastic bushings where you disconnect them. Push the arm into the IMRC, then hold your finger over the vac hole. The arm should stay in. If not the diaphragm is leaking and the IMRC needs to be replaced. Also check the arm that was hooked up to IMRC moves freely.

Unfortunately 1999 and newer windstars have an electronically controlled IMRC module so your test won't work in this case.

JK2AUTO - Was the intake tube for the air filter properly installed after the repairs? You might want to try cleaning the IAC with some carb cleaner and see if it helps.

Oscar.

Well i broke down and bought another Windstar i originally had a 2000 and when i had the tsb fixed it was at a toyota dealer where i bought the van and after 3 months the motor detonated and i sold it for parts and after 5 years due to a family medical requirement i had to be able to carry a wheel chair in my mustang which it definatley would not fit i sold it and bought a 2001 windstar again the CEL was off i didn't bring my code reader and i got a fairly good deal on it. During the first week it ran great then on the 120km makr the CEL came on and low and behold P0171&P0174 codes (What was i thinking) but after i contacted the dealer they told me they would in no way fix it and it was my problem so after i got the parts list from the dealer($508.60+taxes) and 366.00 for labor i decided to try and fix it myself. i found a kit mad by Dorman Products #615-177 it had all the parts(valve cover & gasket,Isolator bolts,pcv valve and tube,u-shape vacuum line,6 lower intake gaskets,plenum gasket) i ordered it up in Canada paid 120.00 +taxes so i saved 380.00 on parts and my labor. is there anything anyone can give me advise on before i tackle this and on Monday i have to take it to the dealer to get the PCM re-programmed ($60.00) looks fairly straight forward just have to take pictures of everything before i start. i have contacted ford Canada about making this a recall but they pretty much told me to keep my receipts in case of a recall :jerking: :runaround:i think for the 380 i saved i will pick up another set in case someone i know buys a windstar or mustang with the 3.8L but am going to be at it first thing in the AM hope all goes well

Why do you need to get the PCM reprogrammed? Just swap the grommets and port seals, and clean the EGR ports, and you'll be done. Check the little plastic bushings on the IMRC actuator arms as well as they might be brittle or broken by this point, too.

it is just part of the TSB maybe there was a parameter that needed adjustment i don't know but i got everything done and the kit i bought came with 2 extra gaskets i am thinking throttle body and IAC (1 is a big round one with a rectangle attached to it and the other kind of looks like 2 peaked rectangles)see pic. once i figure out where they go i'll replace them but it doesn't seem to run any different and i hope the codes went away

The one on the left is for the throttle body; the one on the right is for the IAC valve. I'd just stick them in a drawer somewhere in case you ever take either of those off someday; they generally do not need to be changed. (I'd just go ahead and replace them if I needed to take the part off and had the gasket already lying around..)

thanks for the info... just a quick update i got everything put back together after 2 hrs most of that was making coffee drinking coffee cleaning the oil out of the upper and lower plenum and scrubbing the egr ports. it looks like it had the problem for awhile must be why the dealer jumped on the offer i gave for it:confused: but after everything was partially dry i got fed up and just grabbed the leaf blower to dry everything.so i have put 75km on it checked for codes and comes up with 0 codes but 1 monitor still isn't ready EV Monitor(Evaporative System monitor) not sure how many more miles i have to drive for that one to ready itself (Finger's crossed it still comes up 0) overall i found it a pretty easy job to do and on a scale of 10 i rate it at 5 just because you could use a 3rd hand for somethings and getting the upper valve cover bolt was a bit of a pain in the A** with the fuel lines in the way. i did hear that it may throw a p0401 code for the DPFE sensor i forgot to change it while i had it apart but i would do this again if anyone needed help:sarcasmsign: but again thanks for all the input the dealer will be doing the pcm update tomorrow so i will have to go through the readiness monitors all over again.....

...the dealer will be doing the pcm update tomorrow so i will have to go through the readiness monitors all over again.....

Do people recommend having the deal do the PCM update? I know it is part of the TSB. I have a 2002 Ford Windstar 3.8L engine.

In another post, someone mentioned that having the PCM update done can actually make your mileage worse :screwy: - so they did not recommend it.

Also, any tips to get a decent price on the PCM update? My local dealer wanted $100 just to *check* the PCM version, then another $55 or so to update it. That seems excessive. :banghead:

A local shop said $40 to check the version, then another $80 if it needs the update (I'm guessing that last $80 is probably to take it the same Ford dealer to actually get the update done).

....checked for codes and comes up with 0 codes but 1 monitor still isn't ready EV Monitor(Evaporative System monitor) not sure how many more miles i have to drive for that one to ready itself (Finger's crossed it still comes up 0)

In some states you can actually "pass emissions" even if one or more monitors are not set. The laws probably vary state to state, but (for example) here is a summary from Wisconsin (http://http://www.wisconsinvip.org/WivipPublic/PDF/Downloads/Unset_Readiness_Monitors.pdf).

If your vehicle model year is: We will accept it for inspection with:
1996 – 2000 0, 1, or 2 unset monitors
2001 or newer 0 or 1 unset monitors

I believe other states are similar.

I have also found some really helpful information online on how to get your monitors to set. Do some searching. Again, it varies by vehicle. They recommended driving under varying conditions, including highway miles and also accelerating smoothly from 0 to 50 mph with half throttle.

This page (http://www.justanswer.com/uploads/fordguy4u/2008-05-14_195234_TSB_03-16-1.pdf) has the TSB in PDF format (1 document, 4 pages).

Well since the repair i haven't seen the dreaded CEL yet..... still comes up with 0/0 codes on my scanner but still has the EV sensor blinking as i guess it hasn't reset yet i don't drive it on the highway so i guess i have to take it for a drive on the highway for a run......i get roughly 200-250km (124-155miles) per quarter tank after the PCM upgrade but i still feel the odd hesitation every now and then but i can deal with it....happy so far with it i just need to find a key fob for it as it is getting closer to winter and it has remote start sure would be nice to get that working next

$80 if it needs the update (I'm guessing that last $80 is probably to take it the same Ford dealer to actually get the update done).

Sounds about right..... just depends on the hourly rate and it takes about 30mins to do just go in and tell them you need a pcm update as you had some work done and they'll do it for you . it cost my 117p/hr divided by 2 which was 58.50 then taxes and shop supplies came to just over 70 dollars canadian

Okay i don't know if anyone has had this happen, Like i said in previous posts i did the valve cover,egr valve,intake port gaskets,isolator bolts, Upper plenum gasket, U-Shaped fuel rail pressure vacuum line. I have driven the van about 1500KMs since i lost my job and just don't drive much anymore and the van still has 0/0 codes and a blinking EV sensor icon is there something i may have missed as after 1500km it SHOULD have reset itself by now 4-5 months after the repair has been done. i am thinking about selling the van but i don't know if it will pass the emission test if the EV sensor isn't resetting:banghead:

What codes do you get when you hook up a scan tool? If you don't have one, go to autozone or any auto parts store and ask and they'll scan it for free. Post back all the codes you have and we'll be better able to help. Anything I would suggest at this point would just be a random guess.

I don't have any codes. on my scanner it has 3 lights on it green,yellow,red. It shows the yellow light which means that there is a un-ready sensor and on the display it has the EV blinking.
My scanner is this model just a little older:
http://www.walmart.com/ip/Equus-3030-Innova-Diagnostic-Code-Reader-for-OBDII-Vehicles/13029622

Hello I have a windstar 2003 and I have the lean codes 171 and 174. I have replaced the plenum gaskets, I saw oil inside the plenum and in the pcv line. A friend told me it could be because of the pcv valve so I replaced the valve for a new one that I bought in autozone. But after 1 day the check engine light turned on again. I checked again the pcv line port to the plenum and the oil is still there... so now I am confused, I have no replaced yet the isolator bolts for the green ones, but I dont know if it is the root cause of the problem because it is supposed that the oil should not pass trought the pcv valve.... can somebody tell me what should I try next? Thanks (the valve cover-pcv port does not have the small hole)

When i had those codes i just ordered the kit from my auto parts store it is a Dorman Part# 615-177 and includes everything to fix the 171 & 174 code in canada it cost me $135.00 and took me 2 hours to replace and clean everything and i haven't had the Check Engine Light come on yet i did it in September 2013 but the isolator bolts are one of the root causes of this problem....this it the kit i told you about:
http://www.dormanproducts.com/gsearch.aspx?type=keyword&q=615-177

and this is how to fix it:
http://leckemby.net/windstar/windstar01.html

Shop around for that dorman kit...I got mine from amazon for about $79...however, I don't know how much, if any, that shipping to Canada adds.

Shop around for that dorman kit...I got mine from amazon for about $79...however, I don't know how much, if any, that shipping to Canada adds.

Yeah if you shop around and have the time to wait for parts I guess that is a better deal but i needed it fixed right away i even went to ford searching out parts but after i got their price quote of 600+taxes i remembered i know someone that works in the field and they ordered it for me but like i said it's all fixed now and works great no codes except for a evap sensor that won't reset but i was told for it to reset it has to be driven at speeds of 45-65MPH for 15 minutes. but i don't drive it that far so i guess it won't reset till i get back to work and have a reason to drive it more

Hello I have a windstar 2003 and I have the lean codes 171 and 174. I have replaced the plenum gaskets, I saw oil inside the plenum and in the pcv line. A friend told me it could be because of the pcv valve so I replaced the valve for a new one that I bought in autozone. But after 1 day the check engine light turned on again. I checked again the pcv line port to the plenum and the oil is still there... so now I am confused, I have no replaced yet the isolator bolts for the green ones, but I dont know if it is the root cause of the problem because it is supposed that the oil should not pass trought the pcv valve.... can somebody tell me what should I try next? Thanks (the valve cover-pcv port does not have the small hole)

The black grommets are the actual cause of those codes, 100% guaranteed. You need to replace them with the green ones. You do NOT have to replace the bolts; just the grommets. FEL-PRO Part # ES72204 is $8.61 currently on RockAuto plus shipping. Advance Auto parts often carries them as well. Remove the plenum, cut off the black grommets with side cutters, slide on the new green ones, CLEAN THE EGR PORTS, put it back together, and the codes will go away. The plenum gaskets you already replaced are reusable.

Ok thanks. I will get the new grommets to replace the balck ones.. but even I cannot figure out how the new grommets will avoid the oil to enter into the plenum and get burned, this is also accelerating my oil consumption... could somebody clarify? I'm really concerned..thanks

Some oil always comes in through the PCV system; that's normal. If you're burning oil, it's probably a different issue altogether. Unfortunately that would require, at a minimum, removing the heads and checking the piston rings, etc. Do you see any oil dripping below? It could just be a leak somewhere and you're mistaking the normal oil in the PCV system for your problem.

Some oil always comes in through the PCV system; that's normal. If you're burning oil, it's probably a different issue altogether. Unfortunately that would require, at a minimum, removing the heads and checking the piston rings, etc. Do you see any oil dripping below? It could just be a leak somewhere and you're mistaking the normal oil in the PCV system for your problem.

Hi, i have no external leaks, and the heads and valves were repaired recently with new gaskets, but I have this problem of oil consumption from time ago, when I cleaned the plenum I saw a lot of oil and the egr ports dirty, maybe this is normal as you said, but after one day the engine light turned on again. So what could be the problem? Do I have to replace the isolator bolts grommets? Could this be related to the problem? Thanks

I did the Isolator bolts back in Nov 2007. Windstar 2000. Had 54K miles then. Now I have 90K on it. Got the dreaded two codes again P0171/174. If I clear the codes and they come back again in about two days or 50 miles.
My question is that has anyone got the codes again after the the job was done already? or could it be something else?.....thanks.

Even the green grommets wear out after a while. Just repeat the job; shouldn't be too bad. The EGR ports are probably fairly clogged again by now anyway as well.

Scubacat, thanks for the quick reply. I will do it again and see what happens.

I agree, if it has been 36K miles, the fix may need to be done again. Don't forget new upper and lower plenum gaskets. And clean the EGR ports while you're in there. There is also a reprogramming of the computer to make the check engine light less sensitive to what is considered lean so you may want to stop by a dealer and have the computer reprogrammed. It's part of the TSB that gets overlooked.

Oh and did you replace the valve cover. You should do that too. The revised version allows less oil to be sucked through the PCV system. If you're cheap and have a good pick a part junk yard, see if you can source a newer revised valve cover. All you need to do is unscrew the part from under the valve cover right below where the PCV valve plugs in and swap it to the original valve cover or just swap covers. I just replaced the little metal plate inside the cover. I found the revised part on a valve cover that was already off of the engine and the JY gave it to me for free. It is a simple bolt on job. If you see both types of valve covers, you can tell the difference when removed, the old one has a hole below the connector and the newer one has a rectangular notch to the side.

I have not done it again. My state inspection was due by Dec 31. I was all set to do the job again in th first week of Jan. But just to try something. I took a duct tape. Cut an inch wide strip and wrapped it around the PCV valve to make it a tight fit. I happen to drive the van for about 80 miles and no CEL. Took it down to a Jiffy Lube and it passed inspection. It came back after about two weeks. I then really pushed the PCV valve in. It's been a month no CEL. I don't notice anything with the performance. If it comes back again, I will wait for a nice day and do it again.

Nice! I forgot all about the fact that when I did the job, I replaced the PCV valve and also replaced that grommet since it had a really loose fit just like you mentioned. You may want to do that sometime and get rid of the duct tape just to be on the safe side. The rubber grommet is available as Dorman part # 42049 and it costs a whole 2 bucks. :) The PCV valve will fit a LOT more snug like you would expect with a new grommet.

I'd also just throw in a new PCV valve if yours is original. It's $8.62 on rockauto for the motorcraft one. (DON'T use an off-brand or the flow won't be exactly right and it may set the code all over again. At that price, I wouldn't even take the chance.)

PCV Valve:

http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/raframecatalog.php?carcode=1385782&parttype=5052

Grommet:

http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/raframecatalog.php?carcode=1385782&parttype=11785

I have not done it again. My state inspection was due by Dec 31. I was all set to do the job again in th first week of Jan. But just to try something. I took a duct tape. Cut an inch wide strip and wrapped it around the PCV valve to make it a tight fit. I happen to drive the van for about 80 miles and no CEL. Took it down to a Jiffy Lube and it passed inspection. It came back after about two weeks. I then really pushed the PCV valve in. It's been a month no CEL. I don't notice anything with the performance. If it comes back again, I will wait for a nice day and do it again.
Veerg , just wondering if this was a permanent fix. I did the repair back in 2009 and I also got the 0171 & 0174 codes again and it's idling rough.

PJM361,
No it is not fixed. The code comes back after about 100 miles. It take that long because of North Carolina summer heat. I know it will be much quicker in the Nov/Dec time. I have the kit and will do the repair again before the inspection time in Dec. I see no difference in the performance. Wife drives it about 50 miles per week. She is not complaining.

Well, just as I was celebrating our old '99 passing 428k miles while on a trip, the old codes P0171 and P0174 come back on. The problem seems to be a cold weather phenomenon. Guess that cold air coming through the intake takes its toll. This will be the third, perhaps fourth, time for replacing the bolts. I'm thinking of replacing only the grommets this time around; never did it that way before. Cheers!

I just had the plenum off of my Windstar today. Although I only just turned over 100,000 miles on mine. I did the bolts and gaskets last year and reused all the same stuff this time. I had it apart to replace the coolant bypass tube that goes between the intake manifold and the plenum.
Anyway, did you do the other stuff before like change the front valve cover to the new design, replace the PCV valve and have the computer reprogrammed? There's more to the TSB and bolt swap than just the bolts.

If you are asking me, then yes ... I did replace the valve cover, have replaced the PCV a couple of times, and did do the computer re-flash. (When I fist did this TSB, the replacement bolt-grommets were still black.) However, I have never updated the upper intake manifold piece ... to my mind, the updated design is a step in the wrong direction. Instead, I removed the inner air horn manifold (mine was clipped in-place) from the upper, and glued it to the middle piece. This has almost totally eliminated the fouling of the EGR jets.

BTW, belated kudos to the OP .... good work. (Note: I believe 8 bolts, not 6, are required.)

SHORTCUT ALERT: !!!

So I bought a set of FelPro ES 72204 grommets and began the task. I DID A SHORT CUT. Since I believe all seals were good, other than the grommets, I decided NOT to upset the intake middle manifold piece ... the one that the throttle body attaches too.

1. Disconnect a battery cable and remove wipers and cowl.
2. Remove plastic upper cover. (14 bolts or so). For access, disconnect spark cables from plugs on cyls 4, 5, and 6. Move aside.
3. Use bent wire to clear EGR jets if required.
4. ONE AT A TIME: Clean away puddled oil and remove one of the eight isolator bolts. Cut away the old grommet. Clean the bolt with brake cleaner. Apply Permatex Ultra Gray RTV to the bore of the grommet and install onto bolt. (The RTV, though messy, will help ease the assembly ... as well as offer additional sealing.) Apply RTV under head of bolt and under top end of black sleeve. Also apply RTV to main seal surface of grommet. Use blue paper towels to make sure seal area is clean and install bolt. Torque to spec ... 85 lb in's or so.

By installing bolts, one at a time, it is hoped that the middle piece is not disturbed and the lower seals will continue to do their job. Note how much work is not required for this procedure ... even the air filter is left in place. Time will tell if it is a good procedure ... my engine certainly runs sweeter.

Nice work. I'm not a fan of RTV unless necessary but it can't hurt. The FelPro grommets actually seem "meatier" than the OEM ones so maybe they're better. Our van is entering it's 5th year on a set of the FelPro ones and no problems at all. (And it's plenty cold here in the winter in Chicagoland. I miss Atlanta this time of year especially!)

Side story on grommets: I wanted two sets of replacement grommets before beginning work in case I screwed up some of them. No single store in neighborhood had two sets, so I bought ....
One green set from AutoZone and one black set (wonder how long they had been on the shelf?) from CarQuest. All the same FelPro part number. The green ones made in USA. The black ones made in China. I'm keeping the black ones as extras.

50K miles have passed since doing the short cut above ... and the 171 & 174 codes were back! Along with lessening engine torque.

Naturally I assume something went wrong with short cut repair posted above, and I open up the upper intake. NOTHING WRONG, ALL CLEAN AND SOUND! I replace grommets since I'm in there ... for "maintenance". No effect. Then I replace the in-line fuel fillter .... BINGO! The Winnie is back!

I see from the code reader I'm about to have issues with the (never serviced) EVAP system ... might as well get the suspected parts on hand.

HAPPY THURSDAY.....WORKING ON 2000 WINDSTAR FROM HELL...BOUGHT USED ABOUT 2 MONTHS AGO..STOPED RUNNING 2 FDAYS LATER..PATS SYSTEM ISSUES...NEW ECM... KEY PROGRAM AT FORD... ALL GOOD..THEN CAME PO171..PO174..NORMAL STALL PROBLEM AT IDLE..I DIDNT ADDRESS THE PROBLEM...THEN OUTTA THE BLUE STARTED MISSING REAL BAD..PO301..PO304..PO171..PO174..PO156..COULD MY LEAN CODES CAUSE THIS??? checked spark...all good...checked injector harness and made repairs. ANY ADVICE??

as these vans get older they require a little/lot more maintenance, while i was in changing the seals for the intake plenum and i had the top section of the motor apart i went and changed my plugs as well and while you have a missfire on 2 cylinders you might want to check the coil pack located under the cowl attached to the valve cover by 3 bolts. when i pulled mine i had spider cracks all through the epoxy which didn't cause any mis firing at that point but i replaced the coil as well


so when i did mine i did:
6 spark plugs
sparkplug wires
coil pack
isolator bolts
all the gaskets
front valve cover
pcv valve
fuel regulator vacuum line


most of it was replaced as when you buy the valve cover repair kit it comes with everything including the new valve cover as the factory part allowed too much oil into the intake manifold (Poor Design) kit is put out by dorman and the number is 615-177 :
https://www.dormanproducts.com/gsearch.aspx?year=2000&make=Ford&model=Windstar&origin=YMM&parttype=Engine%2520Valve%2520Cover%2520Repair%252 0Kit


soo all you need to do is buy the plugs, wires,coil pack and your good to go took me all of about 2.5 hrs to complete but i was cleaning parts and taking too many coffee breaks, if your going to keep it for awhile i would also suggest changing the fuel filter if you don't know when it was changed


there is also a stick about the p171,p174 issue on the forum i found it useful as well