Just read the article in AUTOMOBILE, and WOW:eek: what a car. 402 hp and 376lb-ft from a 5.7L Chevy V8, a 6-speed, rear-wheel drive, 0-60 in 5.1 seconds (traction limited, it only has 235/40 18 tires, some 275's or higher would really help). A quarter of 13.3 seconds! Top speed- 166mph. For HALF the price of an M5.
Truly a great car. Oh, its basically a Catera, so while we have the Caddie that zigs, the Aussies have the Caddie that KICKS ASS!! C'mon, lets have it here!
It also hase 13.5 inch, 4-pot binders up front, a hot suspension, and a sweet body kit. 60-0 is in 125 ft. They have no fade whatsoever.
Oversteer can be dialed in as much or as little as you want, making for a wonderful car.
It is a huge sports-sedan value. Makes me wish I lived in the land of the Koalas.

I read that article too :D
Appears to be a very nice car and makes me wonder why GM isn't selling it to the US. Anyone know?

Because they are stupid bling monkeys on crack.
It is even more confusing, they make the aztek and leave this precious gem out of the mix. Other than that, there is NO reason whatsoever, all the parts are shared with stuff over here, so getting it would be straightforward. It would really help their image if they brought it over.

It's so lame how car companies don't bring the nice cars here. We want performance!!!! So many wonderful cars out there, and we get barely anything....luckily we get Ferrari's.

Yes, but a Ferrari wont be my second or third car, that HSV could be. But we always get cheated out of good cars. Damn:mad:

Yes. It truly sucks. I think MotoRex should start importing them. lol :D

I believe that U.S. automakers are attempting to distance themselves from their reputation of being capable of creating mass produced muscle-cars. They want the public to believe that they are capable of creating internationally accepted 'world-cars' that are compliant with performance as well as practicality. A select few of us (primarily you and me) believe that this is a window for domestic automakers to abandon their roots in favor of acceptable autos that surrender high-end performance for everyday usage. Sure it may sell more, but in the end, what will be remembered?

Nothing will be remembered. And guys who like cars will prosper, like VW is doing, especially in Europe.

Is this the yellow GTS-R we are talking about? Or is there a new one?

I'm talking about the one in the July automobile. It has 402 hp, and is bitchin. It should be here as the catera.

Ok. Can u link me by any chance to photos? It must be the next gen GTS-R..there was an older one that was yellow and was wicked.

Will do

http://www.hsv.com.au/images/cars/vx/gts/gts_19.gif
http://www.hsv.com.au/images/cars/vx/gts/gts_19wheel_lge.jpg
http://www.hsv.com.au/images/cars/vx/gts/gts_engine.jpg
http://www.hsv.com.au/images/cars/vx/gts/gts_inside.jpg



For a HSV commercial, download it (2megs) (http://www.hsv.com.au/download/60sec_download.wmv)

Wow...thats stunning. Looks very very good. Limited production?

I dont think so. But I heard they were making a special version, and only 75 of those were made. But I dont think this one is, bu tdont hold me to that.

Anyone have the nuts to recreate this masterpiece with the Caddy that zigs?

Hmm... so that's what the first Catera commercial meant when it had german influence. It's an Opel chassis, am I right?

The Catera is pretty much the same as teh opel (Vectra, I think).

Yeah, I figured as much. It's far too small to be homegrown.

There are two distinct sounds that a Caddy should make:
1) The desperation of the starter
2) The painful force of gravity fighting the power windows when UP is depressed.

The commodore was based on an Opel Omega but the only thing they share are the door handles. Everything else the commodore is bigger. So it's not a Catera.
The GTS-R is called a GTS here in Australia and is not a limited run.

The reason that they are not imported to the USA is because it might take sales from other GM cars and also the unions complained about losing jobs if it happed and threatened to go on strike. But word is that the commodore might be imported in the next few years with the Monaro commodore coupe.
The monaro:

rear

Originally posted by Downunder
But word is that the commodore might be imported in the next few years with the Monaro commodore coupe.
The monaro:

Are they finally going to built the Monaro ????

It will be a very sort after car downunder if they do go ahead with it.

The Monaro is going to be unvieled at the Sydney Motor Show in October. It will have a different front and back to the current VX model and will hint to the looks of the facelift of the commodore for next year. It will be in production from November but won't be sold until late January early Feburary because they want to stock up so there isn't a huge waiting list. But i think it will still happen.

There will be some new colours:
solid orange
solid yellow
highlighted green(i think)
and the blue from the VT series 1 will be back which is a dark blue metallic

Also they plan to build 3000 cars per year.

Lets hope they send some to NZ :) :)

Maybe just one;)

Bloody AUSSIES !!!!!!:finger: :finger: ...LOL

J/K :D

It will be great to see in the flesh especially the HSV and Corsa versions

I just noticed that the HSV GTS-R is $41k not $30k like it says on the poll. :) Anyway, is Corsa a tuner for HSV????


EDIT: Corsapref.com has crap for Vettes and Vipers!! :o I should know about this!! lol:D

Corsa is not part of HSV. They do the same thing as them but are a smaller company but have more extreme cars and bodykits. I prefer them more than HSV. Corsa has a 330kw range topper that beats the GTS and its diff ratio is a longer 3:46 instead of 3:9 compared to the GTS and that says alot for their tuning:) .

Soon to be released from Corsa is a LS1 stroker from a 346 cubic inch to 383 which will put out 380kw+.

I just noticed that the HSV GTS-R is $41k not $30k like it says on the poll

I took the 30K as american dollars as stated by Automobile.

1KW=1.7hp (I think)

I'm looking at the article right know. On pg. 88 it says "Price as tested $41,000." :)

So it does:)

I now remember, it was in Car and DRiver, a short little thing (they didn't even drive it) I think it was a Commodore. Same difference, and it would be $30000.

The reason GM won't import current Holdens to the North American market is primarily because of the rear-mounted fuel tank - apparently GM edicts demand the tank be mounted forward of the rear axle, not so much to prevent fires as to forestall US lawyers. The new Holden-Sigma platform (eg Cadillac CTS) has a repositioned tank, but with that already in production in the US, Holden exports to America are unlikely. Australians get the Sigma in a few years, hopefully with different styling to the CTS. Also Holden doesn't have any excess capacity, with only one car plant (plus a separate underutilised engine plant) which is already being triple-shifted for a max output of about 150,000 units per annum. Check out the GM Middle East website for existing Chev-badged Holden exports.

Of note Holden announced they will manufacture Gen 3 V8s from 2003, also an all-alloy V6 as well as the export dohc 4. The Monaro coupe will be exported to the Middle East too, and needs to be, as local demand is sure to wane. A HSV GTS 2-door is definate, btw the GTS engine is imported direct from Callaway Engineering.

'Downunder' (sorry about the similar nick, mate) is right, although similar visually to a Catera, Holdens are a quite distinct design to it from the floorpan on up.

No probs Thunda. The more aussies here the better:D

Originally posted by Downunder
No probs Thunda. The more aussies here the better:D

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO !!!!!!!!! ....lol

j/k...nice to see ya here :)

The invasion beigins :bigsmirk: ;)

Originally posted by Downunder
The invasion beigins :bigsmirk: ;)

....isn't there enough of us kiwi's in your country already....heheheheh....our invasion started a long time ago !!!!!:devil: :devil: :D :D

So you are people are those illegal imagrants on the news:D

Originally posted by Downunder
So you are people are those illegal imagrants on the news:D

LOL....Thats us :finger: :finger: :finger:

Hey thanks for the welcome!

What do you guys reckon about that Caddy CTS, which I guess is the basis for the next Holden? Looks like a block of flats to my eye.

For all those HSV fans, may I inject a hint of tastelessness by asking if Tom Walkinshaw is of those perennial batchelors, you know the kind of, er, man who is never destined to sleep with a woman? On the TV he sure sounded lispy to me.

I've never owned an HSV but I did once buy a new VK Group A
96 kph in 1st, 6,200 rpm in top, not bad for its day... ah, memories!

You just cant beat that sound of a V8 going through the gears to its rev limit each time..........makes the hair on ya neck stand up.
:) :)

Yeah, you're right there, Primera Man.

Any personal V8 favorite as regards sonics? My old VK had the 3 inch exhaust and sounded grouse, really mellow.

A friend of mine leases a VT Gen 3 SS 6 speed, alas dead-quiet but the damn thing does 160 in 3rd ... with THREE gears left to go!

I'm from the old school......Holden HQ ...350 Tunnel Rammed chev...used to mainly drag race it till i sold it (should never have parted with it ).

Would love one of the new HSV's, but at $100,000.00NZ for a new one is way out of my league.

I agree, hard to justify the $$

Where I live the WRX reigns supreme, or pretends to:

A mutual friend has an old Q'ey, pretty average in the body, chocolate brown etc, but with a fairly stock 454 and glide. A nice usable streetster though, and he put it together for a mere A$5,500.

Recently I watched him go against a razzed-up STI Sube, you know big bucks and with all the gear and more, and MAN it was no contest - the Q'ey just ATE it!

:) :)...chalk one up for the "old school".

Tell me dude.....i've just had a work mate come back from a holiday in Aus and he tells me that the Ford's are doing better in the sales and marketing then the Holdens.
He said he saw more Fords then Holdens.
He was in Both NSW and Qld for 6 weeks.

How true is this ????

When the AU Falcon came out, it looked pretty underbaked compared to the VT. Our IDIOT motoring press (yours can't be as bad, surely?) focussed their dislike mostly on the 'waterfall' grille of the AU, and soon every amateur expert and his dog were panning Ford in the street for the poxy grille design. Consequently Ford took a hammering, sales-wise, there was even gossip (untrue) of Ford pulling out of Oz.

It sounds ridiculous, I know, but literally everyone was berating AUs for that small lump of plastic. Personally, I didn't mind the grille, a Lincoln-esque design cue I think could have evolved nicely.

Anyway, much of Ford management here got sacked for the sales flop, and ex Sydney-Ford dealer principal Geoff Polities was appointed head CEO. Let me tell you he has been a breath of fresh air, virtually solely revitalising Fords fortunes and sales here, firstly for the AU2 and now all the new V8 developments underway. He's a real 'car-guy' .... not a bloody accountant.

In many ways the Ford is a superior product the the Conformadore (Commode-door?) and sales ARE increasing markedly, but as it stands Holden sold almost 100,000 units last financial year (to June 30) + around 30,000 exports, for I think a 27% share of the Oz market.

Ford, on the other hand, sold only 60,000 Falcons, plus a miniscule amount of exports, for a 17% share, albeit closing on 2nd place Toyota.

Hope this helps, Primera-Man :smoka:

Originally posted by Thunda Downunda
He's a real 'car-guy' .... not a bloody accountant.
Hope this helps, Primera-Man :smoka:

This problem has raged on for a while and it sounds like they have got it right at last....get a real bloke in there and see what the public want.

Even though i'm a holden man myself, the Tickford Ford ( in my books anyway) is the nicer of the 2 models.

Holden need to get this coupe model out soon.....and mass produce it, not just limit it. The demand for that will be amazing.

How dare you bring up the F word into this place. YYUUUUKKK!!;)

Originally posted by Downunder
How dare you bring up the F word into this place. YYUUUUKKK!!;)

:) :) .....yeah i'm not a Ford man either and never will be (thats another story though)..... but at least they are giving the HDT Team a run for there money at long last:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Um i think you mean Holden Racing Team:)

After my VK Group A (bought brand-spankers for A$21,950!) I'm a bit cynical about the value in 'tuner' cars - then a new cop-spec VK 5 litre was under $15,000 ... Similarly, the $25k+ impost of a Clubsport over a 5.7 Executive is tough to justify.

Looking at F***s, with their terrific double-wishbone suspension F&R, its gotta be better than the Holden system, which is basically the same as a Datto 1600, ie struts and semi-trailing arms. Most testers here agree that the F*** drives better.


As for the Monaro, the past tells us that aussies don't buy 2-doors, even though they pretend to want one. Perhaps the market has matured since HK-HJs .. but somehow I doubt it. I predict, after an initial splurge, sales will wane. 700 deposits have been taken by Holden. Hopefully the Middle East exports will sustain it.
btw, the cheapest Monaro, with 3.8 blown, leather, climate etc, will sell at Calais prices at least.

I reckon that sales will be double overseas compared to hear for the Monaro. If it gets into America in the next few years (which i have a feeling it might) will absoloutely sell like hot cakes:)

Originally posted by Thunda Downunda

As for the Monaro, the past tells us that aussies don't buy 2-doors, even though they pretend to want one


WOW...Thats intresting...i thought you Aussie's would be fighting to get your hands on one.

You may be right, Downunder, Monaro export sales may be double of local - witness that more Statesmen (Statespeople? non-sexist) are sold to Arabs than aussies. No USA sales of Holdens, though, as the new Sigma platform and derivatives will be manufactured stateside, so no need to export (see previous post).

As for the traditional low demand for local 2-doors, only the Charger could be considered a sales success (almost 50% of mopar sales here at one stage, because of deft marketing and low-low prices, compared to the sedan. The Falcon Tudor bellyfloped, as did the previous Munro.

Witness the sales history for Monaro (all models & types):

HK: 8945 sold
HT: 14,437 "
HG: 6147 "
HQ: 13,782 " ... including 4-door (out of 500,000 HQs sold!!!)
HJ: 4754 " " ".

Miniscule sales figures, by any standard.

If or when HSV export their 'Coupe' (thats the name of the car, simple aint it:)) i hope it will be in all the mags like Top Gear and up against the M3 and Merc's with raving reviews on how gorgous it looks and how hard it goes.
OOOHHHH BABBY YES!!!:D

I don't think the Monaro will make it to the UK for some odd reason, mainly because they need to cater for the Aussies and Kiwis before they can move onto overseas.

About struts being bad, all BMW's have struts up front, and multilink in the rear(usually).

Chris: I never said Mr Macpherson's struts were 'bad' - merely implied that more links equate to superior wheel control.
Struts debuted on the '50s British Ford Consul. The nifty Datsun 1600 was in many ways a Japanese copy of the earlier BMW 1602, then the cutting-edge design in small cars. Both these vehicles employed front struts, and rear semi-trailing arm suspension.
The advantages of Macpherson struts include compactness, and notably cost, because manufacturers can install them in-situ (in one unit).
Macpherson was, after all, a Scotsman.
Aren't struts by definition a '3-link' design (ie: 3 mounting/pivot points) and therefore more prone to deleterious camber change? Contrast this with the more sophisticated and expensive double-wishbone (4-link A-arm) as used front and rear on the Falcon, which has the potential for more accurate control of camber change thruought its arc (travel).
Also, it's highly unusual to find vehicles employing strut suspensions TO feature provision for camber adjustment, which means that after hitting that high kerb, wicked pothole, or even structural wear through sustained driving on rough roads (not uncommon in Australia) it's off for a trip to the Smash Repairer and onto the Car-O-Liner to bend the whole damn thing back into shape, rather than just an inexpensive wheel alignment as provided with wishbones. This simple reality of car ownership is seldom, if ever, mentioned in glossy magazines.
As I recall, Mercedes Benz was the first manufacurer to offer a 5-link system, using a supercomputer to simulate complex pivot axis variation, on the 190 (the first C-class) - a fantastic handling car.

nb: Holden has, on the new VX2, finally been compelled (kicking and screaming all the way) to offer the additional 4th link on the semi-trailing arm rear suspension of regular Commodores, not just the GTS. With the previous 3-link system, a bearing took the side-load, and as that wore with age, sudden and twitchy 'snap-oversteer' would result. My neighbour's '94 Statesman (stretched Commodore) wore out the inside tread of its rear tyres in only 12,000 miles through (non-adjustable) negative camber, not uncommon.
ps: Road Testers here agree that the Falcon's (optional) front/rear double-wishbone system offers tangible benefits and a superior drive, compared to the Holden's cheap/primitive strut/trailing-arm system - including VX2's 4th link.

Well, I say that struts are bad. But you can get alignments (my mom gets them all the time!:D )
But with proper tuning, they can be very good. But wishbones are better. And with struts, you have radius arms and junk like that to provide lateral and horizontal support.

Also, the current civic has struts, and its slalom went down 2mph from the wishbone model.

When your mom gets her alignment (for the car, lol) can the camber be adjusted, or merely the caster & toe-in?
btw: it's illuminating to price replacement shock absorbers for strut vs non-strut vehicles .. struts are usually 2-3 times the price :mad:

The Civic would be but one example. I've yet to see one dedicated competition vehicle (eg Formula 1, etc) utilizing Macpherson struts. Radius rods might provide extra location, but it's the arc of the wheel travel that determines camber change :)

I think its mainly for toe-in. When the rotors warp, they quickly destroy the alignment, and the car will wander.

Speaking of inequalities, I live in the U.S. and it makes me sick to see GM marketing rear-wheel drive V8-powered muscle sedans in the Middle East and Australia after having discontinued them here. I was a big fan of the last generation Caprice 9C1 and Impala SS.

I heard that the Holden GTS-R was selling down under for about $85000 AUD fully equipped, which at the current exchange rate comes to about $44,000 USD (a great deal considering the cars they sell here for that price don't even come close to touching the GTS in terms of performance).

I read that the HSV GTS-R was recently brought to the United Kingdom at an MSRP of $50000 GBP - that's about $75000 dollars!?! The question I wanted to ask is, where does this extra $30000 USD come from as the car goes from Australia to England???

There are companies in California that import Nissan Skylines from Japan. After modifying the car to pass EPA standards (several thousand dollars), converting to right-hand drive (several thousand more) and paying for the shipping costs (yet another several thousand), gas-guzzler and luxury taxes and import tariffs (cars are dutiable at 2.5% of worth, PLUS 4% for every thousand dollars over $400; trucks are assessed a duty of 25%!!), you end up paying about $90000 USD for a car that costs the equivalent of $40,000 USD overseas. But that's because these companies have to use independent commercial importers, which tack on their own egregious service charges. Remember, this is for a car that is imported, not an import car that is registered for sale.

I am also looking to import (of my accord) a Caprice SS or Lumina SS from Saudi Arabia, to the US. If anyone knows specifically how much this would cost, plesae let me know. Obviously I would not be worried about emissions or drive conversion, only the taxes involved. I am trying to get more information from the customs and treasury department in the meantime. Thanks.

I am in Australia at the moment guys, and had a look round the HSV dealers a few days ago!
I can see why we don't get it, but I fail to see why the US doesn't get the GTS and other Super Saloons!

I see they have brought out a new version, which now gets 19" wheels, as well as trim changes!!!

Here are some pics of the new Monaro if they will leech...
http://www.hsv.com.au/cars/vx2/coupe/gts/alt/hero.jpg
http://www.hsv.com.au/cars/vx2/coupe/gts/alt/wheel.jpg

And the Clubsport Commodore...
http://www.hsv.com.au/cars/vx2/cs/alt/saffron1.jpg
http://www.hsv.com.au/cars/vx2/cs/alt/saffron3.jpg

You don't get OUR:silly2: Holdens because the fuel tanks is placed behind the axle and a few other things.

But it doesn't go for the ute as it placed in front of the rear axle and might end up in America by the end of the year:smoker2:

i think i've already posted my response to this, but i'm not sure, so i'll go again...

HSV anyday, its just a better all-round car

In Britain, cars are crazy-expensive. If you own a car, you are lucky. Plus, the Value Added Tax is 18% on any new car. Ouch:eek:

It's GTS. There's no 'R'.

You'll be getting the Monaro as a Pontiac GTO in 2004. Not the HSV model though.

The GTS-R does exist, in the UK where they are imported.
AUS- UK
-----------------------
GTS- GTS-R
Clubsport R8- GTS

Originally posted by farking_funny


You'll be getting the Monaro as a Pontiac GTO in 2004. Not the HSV model though.


Thats right, one of the reasons the Monaro was delayed a little was they had to relocate the gas tank in frount of the axle. Something they would only goto the trouble of doing if they planned to sell the car in the US.

Originally posted by Moppie



Thats right, one of the reasons the Monaro was delayed a little was they had to relocate the gas tank in frount of the axle. Something they would only goto the trouble of doing if they planned to sell the car in the US.

Anyone know if they are making a similar improvement in the VY Commodore???? :confused:


Thunda- The UK-spec GTS-R is different from the Aussie GTS isn't it????? I'm talking about the Supercharger that exists in one of the UK models, which I am sure is the GTS-R......


Why the hell can't we have some of them, it's not fair......:mad: :mad:

It makes all other HSV's suck :( :(

The supercharger is an option on the UK GTS-R

Originally posted by Downunder
The supercharger is an option on the UK GTS-R

OK cheers :)

How is moving the fuel tank in front of the rear axle an improvement? It's just one of silly American design rules. Same with 17' wheels. I can't see why they have a problem with those.

I know the fuel tank is to be moved in case of rear impact, but I've never seen a car blow up from being hit in the rear. If it isn't broken, why fix it?

The U.S is definately getting it. It's already been anounced. Along with the ute to be sold as a Chevy Al Camino.

Originally posted by farking_funny
How is moving the fuel tank in front of the rear axle an improvement? It's just one of silly American design rules. Same with 17' wheels. I can't see why they have a problem with those.

I know the fuel tank is to be moved in case of rear impact, but I've never seen a car blow up from being hit in the rear. If it isn't broken, why fix it?

The U.S is definately getting it. It's already been anounced. Along with the ute to be sold as a Chevy Al Camino.

Getting which??? The Monaro or Commodore????

But there has been tons of cars blow up in the States, cause engineers put the fuel tanks in stupid places :rolleyes:

Definately getting the Monaro. Not sure about the Commodore. If they don't blow up here, why would they do it in the states?

Definately getting the Monaro. Not sure about the Commodore. If they don't blow up here, why would they do it in the states?

But the U.S will be getting this one. Slightly redesigned though.

About the gas tank, it isn't safe to have it behind the axle. And GM has painful memories, as a family in a 1970's Malibu was rear-ended, the tank ruptured, and burned them. They were able to get ahold of an internal document outlining the danger, but recommending that the gas tank not be changed to save on costs. GM was ordered to pay $4.9 billion (yes, with a B) to the 6 victims.

Originally posted by Moss1O6GTi

Thunda- The UK-spec GTS-R is different from the Aussie GTS isn't it????? I'm talking about the Supercharger that exists in one of the UK models, which I am sure is the GTS-R......


Apologies for the belated response. The UK GTS-R was identical to our GTS, save for a vented intake airbox which explains the additional 8hp and the '410bhp' decal on the back. I'm told the UK drive-by noise regs are easier than here. Apart from the lairy GTS-R stickers emblazoned everwhere and the lurid interior decor treatment on the example I saw I think that's the extent of it.

All I heard at the time of the 530bhp supercharged units was they were apparently a batch of 10 only, done by an aftermarket tuner .. not TWR (Tom Walkinshaw Racing). BTW anyone else remember what happened to that fop T. Walkinshaw last time he raced at Bathurst - I thought that was hilarious!

As to the petrol tank placement of Commodores, this is a hot topic in the US at the moment, very explosive & a burning issue indeed. The latest terror over there is stationary US Ford Crown Victoria police cars which have the temerity to catch fire when rear-ended at 70mph by a semi, or something like that. The Nerve! Perhaps these were designed by that same company (Morton Thyocol) of the Challenger Space Shuttle fame? It's now replaced the Ford Explorer tyre debacle as the new 'flavour of the month' conspiracy psychodrama in the US, and is yet another absolute tort law feast (remember the McDonalds coffee cup precedent?) for that otherwise starving and deprived underclass, the US lawyers (bless 'em)

I wonder how they'd cope with the SL/R 5000 drop-tank craze/fad of a few years ago?

That tire crap is crap. Drive along any interstate, and you will see countless tire bits, sometimes the whole tread, or worse. This firestone issue is crap, and the explorer may even be ok. ITs that most modern drivers suck ass. They only care about themselves, and the person on the other end of the cellphone. If they were actually driving (especially if they were driving a car), there would be no accident.

One thing's for sure - I wouldn't even attempt to drive an often overladen top-heavy two-ton+ SFV (sport futility vehicle) at 80mph on tyre pressures of 22psi!

When was the last time you saw one of those immaculately dressed folk driving their SUVs at a servo checking their tire pressures?

About as often as they get under the hood to check the oil... ie zip...

And they wonder why their tire pressures are low (the only time they get checked is if the apprentice remembers at service).

Wonder if they ever pump their tires back up after going thru sand... hang on what was I thinking... you can't possibly use an SUV for off-road it might get dirty...

Could be wrong info, but apparently the Explorer's owners manual actually recommended 22psi (minimum) so that's what these idiots selected to drive 'em at!

Even fully loaded and for extended highway speeds - no wonder they delaminated

I suppose they'd have a nice plush ride over the catseyes as the SFV swerves off the road...

Originally posted by replicant_008
I suppose they'd have a nice plush ride over the catseyes as the SFV swerves off the road...

:) :p :D :eek:

Too late to select Insta-Trac 4WD (via that convenient dash mounted button) when your 22psi Firestones are pointing skywards

Well at least it would save on tire wear...

.

That's not the GTS-R that this thread is referring to. HSV's GTS is known as the GTS-R in the UK.

The yellow gts-r in the pic above is an older model VR it uses a stroked version of the 5.0 litre Aussie motor
The American market will get the Monaro rebadged as the GTO pontiac
we had a left hand drive monaro at work doing transmission testing this week

You Americans can have all the HSV's you want. people think they're the be all and end all of vehicles. But I hate them. Sure they go hard, but uh, why cant the brand new ones even make near 100hp per litre yet? And why does my mates 2 litre kick the shit out of them for 1/2 the price and twice the age? And why cant they turn corners? Sorry, my rants over, Motor Eyes will kill me now. ;)

i hate them to!!!
they look gay!!!
people its just a comanhore with a different front end. if you want real power then start with real power...not the 300kW (240kW at the rear wheels) slug that cant even beat the new GT Falcon with a 5.4 litre donk... for f^ucks sake...290kW out of a 5.4 and 300kW out of a 5.7 and the 5.4 kicks the shite out of it in every class!!!!!
you want a HSV then y dont u just buy a povity pack comanhore change the front spoiler and wack a super on it!!!
or buy a XR6 turbo for $44,640AUS and kick the shite out of any stock comanhore in australia!!!

i hate them to!!!
they look gay!!!
people its just a comanhore with a different front end. if you want real power then start with real power...not the 300kW (240kW at the rear wheels) slug that cant even beat the new GT Falcon with a 5.4 litre donk... for f^ucks sake...290kW out of a 5.4 and 300kW out of a 5.7 and the 5.4 kicks the shite out of it in every class!!!!!
you want a HSV then y dont u just buy a povity pack comanhore change the front spoiler and wack a super on it!!!
or buy a XR6 turbo for $44,640AUS and kick the shite out of any stock comanhore in australia!!!

Well to be honest, it's not that clear cut.

The 5.4 litre GT and GT-P engine is essentially based on a Lincoln Navigator iron block with some twin-cam heads. This introduces some compromises - the twin-cam heads only come into their own in the mid to high rev range but get strangled by the limitations of the big end which is essentially a cast iron truck block. And the clearance in the engine bay is non-existent. The extra weight over the front axle dulls the handling compared to the Barra Engined XR6T too. And I don't think much of the SOHC V8 option compared to the standard Barra and the hair-drier Barra.

On the other hand, the LS1/GenIII even with the Callaway heads is based on a alloy block and pushrod heads. It's a lot lighter than the Ford engine and the engine characteristics make it relatively cheap, has good low-down torque and seems less like likely to want to spin something off compared to the 5.4 as you hit the revlimiter (which even for a pushrod is still higher than the 5.4 with the DOHC heads courtesy of that truck block). On the other hand, the 300kW engines have some reliability problems as do a handful of the LS1s - particularly pistons and oil use.

The High Feature V6 from GM is badly needed for the next Commode upgrade as the existing Buick V6 has passed its use-by date.

On real roads (ie ones with corners not to mention speed cameras and police pursuit patrols), there isn't a helluva lot of difference between the XR6T, the GT/GTP, SS, R8 Clubsports, GTO or the XR8 - they are all at the pointy end of the performance envelope and it comes down to preference and handling setup. I don't like the commode's semi-trailing arm rear end - the control blade is much better and the XR6T has the better front end but the Ford V8's are blunted by the extra weight over the front end... And the starter button of the GT's is a pain in the ass.

then how do u feel that the the XR8 with its 260kW beats the hell outa every holden made this year??
and the XR6 turbo also beating everything??
and the GT beating everything??

Well it shits me but then considering Holden has slaughtered Ford for so long it's about time they lost a bit of shine.

If anything it keeps Holden honest and with any hope the VZ and subsequent VE models will be absolute crackers.

I for one am seriously considering the prospect of getting an SS GenIV with DoD when it arrives

slaughtered ford???
holden hasnt yet made a car to beat one of the many fords in 1960's..
The Phase 3 still beats all productions holdens in a straight line and kicks many round the track..
holden still hasnt found a legal engine to stand a chance against the carby fed 351 Cleveland!!!
ill eat my whole car when holden brings out a production car that beats all production fords!!!
402hp thats funny the 72 falcons had 400hp at the wheels!!!

Well in the last 5 or 6 years they couldn't produce, in the same period, a car to beat HSV or Holdens Gen III SS Commodore

Also Magazine tests of it's era show the Phase 3 could only manage an official 0-100 time of around 6.5 seconds and a 14.7 second quarter mile. Stock SS Commodores have posted better figures than that ever since VT Series II.

Also stock A9X Toranas would cane a GTHO around a racetrack and even one such as Bathurst with it's long straights. Not to mention the latest SS Commodores or HSV's.

Not sure what you mean by legal engine though? The 351 Cleveland was American just like the Gen III. Also the Gen III is streets ahead of the Cleveland in economy, power, refinement etc...

Oh yeah and the Phase IV doesn't count as it was never "officially" sold so you might want to start munching as even the FPV GT can't beat a Clubsport in a straight line.

Ford fans of Australia, let it go. The Phase III was the best in it's day, 30 years ago, not any more.

14.4 second quarter mile actully making it the 5th fastest accelerating australian production car in aus and thats with 32 year old rubber
4th being the XR8 3rd being the E49 Charger 2nd being the XR6 turbo and 1st being the new GT...
i ment legal engine because of the 7 litre monaro
they were gunna release it but it was discontinued...didnt u hear about that???
There hasnt been a A9X torana in history thats beaten the Phase 3...yes the phase 4 wasnt released but it kicked the shite outa all the commodores just like the XA GT351 its little brother...
its funny isnt it the RS500 won baturst with its tiny 2 litre turbo'd engine....there is still no holden that can beat the RS200 and its a 1.8 litre turbo that weighs 1145kg...supercharged 3.8 commodore dosnt even run 0-100km/h in twice the time it does.
351 cleveland is the fastest small block in the world
runs 7.652 second quarter naturally aspirated...
the LS1 has nothing!!!

Uh dude, from the photos it looks like a normal HSV GTS. A friend of mine has one in black only its got the full options with leather seats not those crappy looking fabric seats. Comes with 300kw's stock standard. I think he's had some minor work done to the engine and he's running in the 12's, but not sure as to the exact time. AS far as i know all he's added is an exhaust and chip to get these times. By the way, where did you get the $30,000 price tag???? An HSV GTS usually costs around $100,000 australian dollars which i think is closer to $50-70,000 U.S. dollars, not really sure after the conversion but i think its somewhere along those figures.

umm.. to holden h8r the december issue of motor mag recently tested the commodore ss II and xr8. the ss ran a time of 13.94 to the xr8 14.37 and in motors own words "not only is the ss half a second quicker than the xr8, bit it outpaces the 290kw fpv gt as well" well thats got ur theary of the gt being the quickest australian production car. and in the november issue they tested the hsv clubbie II up with the fpv gt and the times were clubbie 13.56 and gt 14.22 wats this holden kicks the shit out of fordow and the xr6 runs 14.14 and the gts runs bout a 13.20, 13.30 stock

There hasnt been a A9X torana in history thats beaten the Phase 3...yes the phase 4 wasnt released but it kicked the shite outa all the commodores just like the XA GT351 its little brother...
its funny isnt it the RS500 won baturst with its tiny 2 litre turbo'd engine....there is still no holden that can beat the RS200 and its a 1.8 litre turbo that weighs 1145kg...supercharged 3.8 commodore dosnt even run 0-100km/h in twice the time it does.
351 cleveland is the fastest small block in the world
runs 7.652 second quarter naturally aspirated...
the LS1 has nothing!!!

:screwy: you really have no idea. Check out the Baturst times here:

http://www.v8supercar.com.au/resource/bathurst/grids.htm

Oh yeah and Sierra's don't count either, Ford never sold them in Australia and the ones that raced were modified for the Group A rules at the time. I wonder if you even know where they were made.....

Yep the HRT 427 wasn't released, just like the Phase IV huh?

The Gen IV will displace 6 litres when it arrives, but don't worry, maybe Ford will continue to develop it's "Romeo" 5.4 V8 so you can sort of be able to catch up!

This is getting ridiculous. It's true that the RS500 Cosworth Sierras were Group A Racecars but so were all the other cars in the field and ultimately the quickest Group A car to compete in Australia was the Nissan GTR.

The Nissan GTR is still available in Japan and was available for sale in Australia. However, in NZ both the Sierra (incl the RS500) and the GTR were available for sale... in fact if you have the cash, Nissan NZ will still bring in the current GTR for you to special order.

But that's about as relevant to the road car situation as the current V8SuperCar standings are to driving around in a current Falcodore... The engines in the Supercars are both ironblock 5 litre pushrods, both run wishbone front ends and live axle rears and use the same combination of a Hollinger gearbox to the same Ford diff. If you've ever worked in the pit lane during a meeting it's pretty plain to see when the front splitters are off, the bonnets are up and the wheels are off that the similarity between either racecar and its road car equivalent is purely superficial.

As for the fastest car... it depends on the driver, the conditions and the roads being used if you want a real world comparison. 0-100 and quarter mile times are fine for the traffic light drags but to be honest the combination of roadholding, handling (note they are two quite distinct things), braking performance, rolling acceleration (particularly 80-120 km/h).

The Phase III may have the better 0-100 time than an XR6 Turbo but drive back to back on twisty country road and the newer car won't break a sweat running away in corner speed.

the polls titled which would you rather have, so you guys are all saying youll choose a less luxurious, less high-performing car over a car twice as expensive in a poll where $ is no option?

o yeah and look at that BEASTLY interior!! not even any leather!! the seats'll smell like sweat after half a year, and they'll feel rely hard to sit on. and the design of the seat is pretty ugly too

who told you the Phase IV didnt get released?
they didnt enter it into bathurst but they released it buddy.....do ya home work

id much rather a M5 than a HSV..... Although there both designed in germany the BMW has about 500 times betta steel in its make.....BMW is known for there quality.....the BMW will still be looking brand new when the HSV is getting a respray......we all know about Holdens Paint.....not even Toyota thought it was decent.....remember the VN-VR (Lexens) thats right the Lexen was actully a all around betta car than the Commodore.....betta paint....betta computer.....and alot of other little things....YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR.... everyone knows that...but hey thats just my opinion...

chevy won't bring that car to the US because they won't build anything better or faster or that even comes close to competing with the Corvette, which i think is totally fucking stupid and gay.. Chevy is chevy, each branch of GM should have a fast car just like the old days... Anyone remember the good old muscle car days? chevelle, nova, impala, GTO, corvette, 442 and all thge others i'm too young to know about lol come on GM you have us by the balls here with only two fast cars and one of them is watered down! They think they can fool us by supercharging the FWD cars like the impala and monte carlo.. screw that high 14 second low 15 second fwd cars suck!

thow a dog a bone nigga, shit!

they wont take one of those peices of shit ova to the US.....does anyone know the quality of which these cars are made.....its a shame to the word car!

what the holdens?

Chevy is bottom of the barrol in car quality in some of their cars.. and even in the higher end Vett you see shitty inerior and designing..

yeah the holdens....
For example 2002 VX HSV...SS...calais....every 1/50
of the LS1's put into the things chewed oil.....i had a mate jase who had one (SS) and his did it...so he flogged the shit outa it and then took it in and told them....because it happens so often they dont even check it out...they said to leave it there and come get it tomoz with a brand new engine....and its "HOLDEN" there not just gunna throw out the engine are they...there gunna do wateva it was that was wrong and put it back into another car arnt they....FLOGGED....there isnt anyone i know that knows anything about cars and likes holdens....if you know what your talking about you go for FORD or sumthing else with some style and quality...When the VX commodore came out here they gave a Ford And A Holden to Autotec Magazine....autotec checked out the cars and the holden had a factory worked engine and holdens special Ballistic Style Steering...and claimed it to be stock...but wat was funny was the ford still beat it round every corner...goes to show the low quality of the car and the people that make them....lying to the people to sell more cars....