Still having big time power loss. Seems to happen at all rpms. I think I'm gonna do an engine swap.

check filter

bob, im having the same problem with my 97 ex and have not come up with a solution. It seems that a lot of people have this problem from the threads i find, but nobody ever posts solutions. I have no idea what to do about it.

1. when was teh last time u had a tune up
2. did u do anythign different from teh moment it was working to the time it didnt(performance parts?anythign.)
3. check ur spark plugs they tell alot about what is going on in the engine.
4. are u getting a cel

hey,
I had a tune up a couple months ago. I have done nothing different but this has been a long lasting problem. There seems to be some serious power loss since i bought the car two years ago. No the idle is surging. Ill check the plugs but i do not suspect anything there. No cel. Just runs like crap

What gas are you using? Is it above 85 octane? When in 3 gear going 20mph and flooring it, do you hear a "pinging" sound? How about your vacuum lines? Do you have good pressure in them? Have you checked your timing? Should be 16 degrees from TDC. Fuel filter? Spark at the plugs? Take a good spark plug and remove a wire that is attached to a spark plug in the engine. Attach the good plug (leaving all the spark plugs in place) and touch the threaded part to the engine block. You should see a nice spark, day or night. Have you "reset" the OBC? Try all of the above that and comeback with all of your findings. what is a "cel" Is that the check light?

When you say "tune up" is that oil and oil filter? Or does that included adjusting valves, etc? Add this to the list, adjust valves. I think that these minor repairs will be easier then an engine swap. I have 211,000 on an original 92 civic D15B7, no mods on this baby, just straight miles and reliability. I do one PM (preventive maintenance) once a month. Every month though, oil change. Just got done replacing the P/S fluid and clutch fluid. Small things, but in the end worth it!

tune up meaning, plugs, fuel filter, oil filter, oil, checked timing clean out IACV. I use the medium grade of gas which i think is 87 and no pinging. Just checked the vacuum lines yesterday, visually. ANy other way to test them? Timing is 16 degrees. Have i reset the OBC? what is the OBC? I have reset the ECU.

How hard is it to adjust valves? I have never had this done and dont have a lot of money to spend as i am a college student.

Im about to try the spark plug thing, ill report back within the hour. I appreciate the help.

Adjusting the valves takes a feeler guage, ($5), shop manual ($90 for Honda OEM), valve cover seal ($15) some RTV sealant and about an hour time. I think shops charge $100 for the service. It is real easy to do. You might need to buy a large 1/2" socket, I think 18mm to turn the crankcase bolt for each cylinder. I find that when my mpg drops, time to adjust valves. Last time I adjusted the valves, I gained 5mpg. I am up to 41mpg a 14% gain from 36mpg!! So in 10000 miles (for me about 3 months) at $2 / gallon, I will have saved, $70 in gas or 34 gallons or 3 trips to the gas station, whewww. Almost the price for someone to do the job, plus I get to keep the book, hehe. How about 100,000 miles? That's $700 in gas savings!! Now we are talking a chunk of change.

definately have some spark. I was thinking maybe the injectors may be clogged too. Ill take a look at them this weekend.
Ill see what i can do about the valves. THanks for the help.

i have a helms manual in pdf format and am wonderng what i am going to do with the valves? adjust clearance? THe more i look at this the more i am not sure if i can do it.

Anybody have a link to a DIY website with photos fro how to do this?

It is real easy!! Just take your time and make small adjustments. To answer your question, yes you will be adjusting clearance. Since you have the same car as me, D15B7 you will make 16 adjustments, 8 on the intake and 8 on the exhaust.

i have 97 civic ex so i dont think it is the same but i just found a good how to online and my helms, so i think it will be ok. Im also going to look into the fuel injectors this weekend. Do i NEED to replace all the o, cushioning and other rings or is that just recomended?

i would replace the o rings (to be on the save side)and lub them up with some petrolium gelly to make the installation easier i mean they dont cost that much. but if u dont wana change them ull prob still be ok

ok, im going to give the valves and injectors a go. When i get done i will post my results. I really hope this fixes my problem as it is getting really really troublesome. Thanks for all the replies.

Did you say that you changed out the fuel filter ( I think you did, but wanted to make sure)? What about a fuel injector cleaner?

Did both and no help.

I am out of suggestions, good luck this weekend!!

Im about to go get all the stuff i need to do the valves but I have a question. I am having trouble finding what size the locknuts on the adjusting screws is. is it just one size or does anyone know?

I think it is about 10 to 12mm open end. I can find out and make sure when I get home.

ok its 10mm, now I am still having problems trying to figure out where the damn feeler gauge is supposed to go. Keep in mind this is the first time ive opened an engine before. :(

The part that you measure looks like two clamps about the size of a watch battery. I cannot do attachments, but here is a copy of a page form the manual on my website. http://www.polacek.org/other/valve.jpg If this illegal and a no no to copy this, sorry I won't do it again. Hope this helps though.

I will be offline for a while, but make sure you turn the crankcase to each cylinder that you are working on. Also remember exhausts and intakes are different sizes. When putting everything back together, put a new valve cover seal as well as RTV sealant around sharp edges of the valve cover. GOOD LUCK!!!

full diy
http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=561916

ok, looks like i did it. Everything is back together. How long do i have to wait to drive it??? Thanks for all the help everybody.

sorry for the impatience but i kind of need to know this. how long do i need to wait before i start the car? or do i need to wait at all? Thanks Thanks Thanks

By now you should be driving it :)

i was fairly carefully not to get the svt on the inside of the gasket. SHould i be real worried about it?

quoting from another thread:
"u have to be very careful w/ that rtv. if u get it too much on, and any breaks loose inside, say good bye. it'll clog oil passages, oil pickup screen, and anything it can get squeezed into"

oh ya, how will i know if i did this whole thing right? obviously the car should run better, but are there any signs that i did it incorrectly, besides my engine blowing up?

You should not hear a ping sound when you are in 4th gear, going 15 mph and full throttle, that is the only thing I know.

the valve adjustment will not change a whole lot unless it has been a long time since it was done. if you got them adjusted correctly you should notice that you have a bit less valve noise as when the gap is smaller there is less hammering effect.


4th gear at 15 mph full throttle? that is going to bog the hell out of the motor and work it pretty hard... i bet it would shake the car like mad (I wouldn't really do that if i were you)

I was just saying for a few seconds, not normal driving. You will notice it more because the throttle body is wide open and the valves are at an idle stage if you will.

im off to test her out. Wish me luck and i will report back. Oh, and the valves have not been adjusted ever, or at least since i have had the car, 3 years. Ill report back.

yeah then you might notice a dfference if it has been that long

well crap, it knocks like a son of a gun. I guess there was not enough friction between the feeler gauge and the valve. I will pop it off and do it again.

Any tips for me this time around. In my manual it says tighten until a slight amount of friction. is it better to be tighter or loseer?

you want the clearence to be small. use the correct feeler gauge and make sure that you keep it held in the gap flat so it is not giving you a false reading. then tighten the adjuster until you feel a slight drag on the feeler gauge when you move it around. tighten the adjuster back down while holding it so it cant move. otherwise it might all turn and throw the adjustment off


also, make sure that the valves are fully closed when you are gapping them. you can turn the crank over with the big nut inside the crank pulley. just watch the valves move and when they are all the way down you should be able to tell

this adjusting should be done with the engine cold

ok, so i just finished redoing it and am waiting for the sealant to harden up and i will test it out again. SOme of those valve were really out of adjustment. I tried to be careful but i guess i was not.
I wish there was a more precise way to measure the gap. I guess the term "feeler gauge" should have given me a heads up that this is not exact science.
Thanks Ill keep you posted. :icon16:

Engine sounds much better and runs with a little more power. Still haveing the sluggish acceleration problem. It is almost as if i lose power in second gear. It is not like the clutch is slippin but almost like the engine isnt getting enough gas or something.
I think im going to clean out the throttle body soon, other than that i dont know what to do. I was hoping adjusting the vavles woudl fix it, but no luck.
Any other ideas on what this could be?

Your timing could be off. It can result in very sluggish accleration where the car doesn't want to go at all, you hit the gas and it is very sluggish to go.

Did you change your timing belt at all recently or have anything of that sort done that? When was the last time your belt was changed? Maybe the belt is too strechted and loose. You should change the timing belt every 60-80K. If you slack of it can get too stretched and loose or worse, break (bye bye motor).

I cannot remember if you answered this, but did you check your timing? Even a couple degrees off with make a difference. Make sure when you check the timing you put a jumper into a wire located near the ECU. Not sure what the color's are but if you need to know, I can look when I get home. Also what about your vacuum? You might have a leak some where. Just giving some ideas.

Well it sucks that it didn't work. I not only have a power loss though, it's like the car just stopped getting gas completely for a couple of seconds. I don't think it's a vaccuum leak or the intake needing cleaned. That doesn't cause it, but it may be a timing issue. I will check that out. sorry it's been so long since I posted in here. I been mega busy. I'll let u know what happens.

-bob-

Sucks it didnt work is right, but at least im narrowing the feild. My timing is correct unless i am doing it incorrectly, and i do not see how that is possible. Line the arrow up with the middle notch, right?
So when i do the timing, i need to jump the service connector? Like when you are trying to get a code? why? I have not been doing that. What you say i need to do kinda sounds like something different, please explain.
Also, the timing belt was changed about 5k ago.
As far as vacuum leaks go, i do not even know where to start.
Sorry about not being able to just go to the manual for this stuff, but mine is in PDF format, so i have to search thousands of pages to find one little tiny thing.

forgot to say that i looked at the plugs today and they are black with some grayish tint. I know they are supposed to be brownish in color, so what does this mean? Im running too rich? If so doesnt timing fix that? And if it does, and i think my timing is correct, that means im wrong. Uh oh. :loser:

u need to jump the harness bc the ecu automatically advance timing 16degrees at tdc. jumping this cable returns the timing to 0degrees which is what u need to adjust the timing.
btw:just checked manual and acording to ur description of the plugs it just says check ignition sys(timing)and air cleaner

question on your plugs... what brand are they? when you looked at them, were the corners all rounded off? a sharp corner on the electrode will give a more consistant spark with less resistance

NKG Iridium plugs. THey looked good except the color.

hmm ok you have decent plugs then. if you ever replace them get more NGK's or Denso's

That is what i was told when i replaced them a couple months ago.

how do i go about checking for vacuum leaks?

Did the sluggish acceleration start after you changed the timing belt? If so how much afterwards did it start? If the timing marks alignment was off and not lined up correctly on the cam sprocket, the piston wasn't set @ TDC before the timing belt was done, then the timing belt teeth are off, causing the timing to be off. This will cause sluggish acceleration and hesitation.

I didnt do the timing belt so how do i check if the teeth are off. That would suck. come to think of it that is when it started doing this.

that should help give you a general idea...

that is what i did. Just like they have it.

u need to jump the harness bc the ecu automatically advance timing 16degrees at tdc. jumping this cable returns the timing to 0degrees which is what u need to adjust the timing.
btw:just checked manual and acording to ur description of the plugs it just says check ignition sys(timing)and air cleaner

I am not so sure of that, check the manual and see what they say. I had the impression that jumping that cable disengages the ECU from making automatic adjustments during the manual adjustment of the distributor cap. There are two sets of marks on the wheel, one at TDC and another at the 16-degree mark. I am pretty sure that I am right, cause I just adjusted my timing about 2 weeks ago.

Either way i need to jump the service adapter before doing the timing. I will set it agian this evening. The car does seems to be running a bit better since the valve adjustment. Anything else i could do to make this thing run better?

changing the subject i might be inthe market for some coilovers. Anybody now some good sites to start looking?

changing the subject i might be inthe market for some coilovers. Anybody now some good sites to start looking?

are you looking @ fully threaded race type coilovers or sleeves?

The only 2 sleeve-type coilovers I would recommend are Skunk2 and Ground Control.

Ground Control
530-677-8600
http://www.ground-control.com/

Skunk2
951-808-9888
http://www.skunk2.com

Ground Control has the option of custom spring rates. You an choose your own front and rear spring in 25lbs incriments (375-400-425-450, etc). The only other company I know of that has the option for custom rates is Tein. You can also choose your own spring lengths with Ground Control coil-overs. Ground Control Coilovers are Linear rate. If the regular rates they provide are too stiff or soft, you can always change them to the rate of your liking! Ground Control coilovers have a lifetime warrenty to the orginal purchaser (also covers sag) on their coilovers!!

Skunk2 Coilovers have also Linear rate. Their coilovers do not have the option for custom rates. Their Civic coilovers feature a spring rate of 450lbs/inch front and 350lbs/inch rear. Their Integra Coilovers (which also fit on 92+ civics if you want a stiffer rate) have rates of 550lbs/inch front and 450 rear. They use 7" springs on these coilovers. Skunk2 coilovers only have a 90-day warrenty though. This warrenty does not cover sag. I have never heard of their coils saging, but I thought I'd point this out.

Ground Control and Skunk2's are close in price around $300-$340. If you get Gorund Control, it will be about $338 wth custom rates.

If you go with sleeve types, you'll want to get new shocks. Koni yellow shocks are VERY GOOD shocks to pair with these. They are adjustable shocks, the rebound is adjustable but ot compression. These are re-buildable, so Koni can re-valve these, re-build them, if need be (for a fee). However, they are able to handle very stiff spring rates, so thier is really no need. Koni shocks feature lifetime warrenty to the origanl purchaser as well. If you use Koni shocks with either of the sleeves, you need to tell them when you order. Ground Control will provide the proper sleeves for the koni shocks, and Skunk2 will give you an adapter to make their coilovers work with konis ($20).

For fully threaded Coilovers, Tein is a good place to start. They have a 1 year warrenty on their products. Tein products also feature the ability to select custom spring rates. The extra cost is $200 for this. You can also have them re-valve their shocks if need be to a stiffer valving. This is around $125 a shock. Tein has many different levels. The basic starts @ around $750 MSRP. It has spring rates of 392lbs/inch front and 168 rear. Te shocks are non-adjustable dampening. Their SS Damper is around $1000 MSRP. It has rates of 392 frotn and 168 rear also, but feature adjustable dampening shocks (compression and rebound toghter). The Type-Flex is $1430 MSRP. They have spring rates of 504 front and 280 rear. They also have adjustbale shocks (compression and rebound toghter).

Tein USA, Inc.
562-861-9161
www.tein.com

There are other good brands of fully threaded coilovers as well, so do not limit yourself to only tein. Also do not be afriad to call the manufacturers and ask questions.

Here is a webiste that features many many other brands of good qaulity fully thread coilovers as well.

http://www.modacar.com/products/Honda/Civic/MODACOI/

anyone know anythign about the omnipower sleeve coilovers. thinking about tryign a set out for myself

wow, lots of information! I do have one simple questoin, what is the difference between, threaded coilovers and sleeves?

Also, does anyone have any more ideas how to try and get my ride running better?

wow, lots of information! I do have one simple questoin, what is the difference between, threaded coilovers and sleeves?

Also, does anyone have any more ideas how to try and get my ride running better?


Threaded coilovers are true coilovers. The shock body is "threaded." The perch can bew spun up and down the threaded shock body to change the height. Tein, Apexi, Toda, etc. This is also called a "race style" coilover sometimes. These are true coilovers.

Sleeve type coilvers are sometimes refered to as "coilover conversion kits." This is probably a more acurate description. They are a sleeve that slips over the body of your shocks. Basically, you have regular shocks, Koni, KYB, Tokico, etc. These shocks are not coilovers, so they naturally are not threaded race coilovers. Sleeve coilovers slip over the shocks and rest on the perch of the shock body. These sleeves are what is threaded (versus the actual shock body like with true coilovers). You can then adjust the perch on the sleeves to adjust the ride height.

Both types of coilovers can be corner weighted. Corner weighting is where you adjust the ride height on each corner slightly to put more or less weight on one side. In doing this you are able to change the weight distribution of the car to more of a 50/50 distribution. Corner weighting HAS to be done on scales, 1 scale under each wheel.

Here is a link with a breif explanation.

corner weighting explanation (http://www.ground-control.com/?D=e04c39f1691068891bffa901ba6b5aaa)

As for your ride, have you checked the timing yet? If not I'd check that. Did many of these problems start after the timing belt change? If so, as I said earlier, the timing marks and timing might not have been set correct and/or the psiton many not have been @ TDC. This will cause less gas mileage and sluggish accleeration (sometimes is may bog and not want to go).

snowman2005, as for omnipower sleeve coilovers, I have heard of them but do not know much. I would personally only go with Skunk2 or Ground Control if I was doing sleeve type coilovers though. Many of the cheap sleeve coilovers on the market are junk. :2cents:

just checked the timing with the service connector jumped and the idle at 750 per the manual. I lined it up perfectly in the middle of the three marks. I will reset the ecu and let it run for a while just to make sure and then test drive it.

Also, will it be hard to check if the timing belt is on incorrectly. I dont hve a lot know how here. THanks for all the help, it is greatly appreciated.

oh ya, so are the sleeve coilovers cheaper?? If so, why wouldnt you just do that unless you are going to race? I am just look to lower the car and make it look nice. THanks

oh ya, so are the sleeve coilovers cheaper?? If so, why wouldnt you just do that unless you are going to race? I am just look to lower the car and make it look nice. THanks

They are cheaper in themselves, yes. However you'll need new shocks also. You can't lower a car on stock shocks, as they will blow out very quickly.

Koni Yellows on either of the 2 mentioned sleeve coilovers are a good combo. As was said, the Ground Controls allow you to choose your own spring rates if you desire. The Skunk2 regular spring rates are stiff, though you can do custom rates to make the ground controls stiffer if you want.

They are called "racing style" becuase most race cars feature true coilovers like this, aka threaded body ones, that is all. When you buy a kit like this, the shocks are valved to the specfic spring rate they provide, so it's a fully tuned kit. This is an added benifit.

As I said though, Koni yellows on the above 2 sleeve types will work, though it won't be considered "perfactly tuned" like a threaded set-up is.

Here is am example.

Spring rates differ among the various levels of the true coilovers. For example, the $750 Tein Basic has 392/168lbs/inch front and rear spring rates, and the shocks are not adjustable dampening. I prefer stiffer than this for my needs, and adjustable shocks also. The $1000 SS is the same spring rate, but with adjustable shocks. The Flex has stiffer rates, 504/280 and adjustable shocks as well. Oh course, the cost goes up to $1430. You can get up to 2kg/mm stiffer spring rates with any Tein set-up for $200 more. But this raises the cost to $950 for the non-adjustable shock basic and $1200 for the adjustable shock SS!!! This will slightly throw off the perfactly match set-up tuning, though with the adjustable SS you can compinsate. Teins have a 1 year warrenty.

On the flip side, you save get into 4 Koni yellow shocks for $500-580 depending on where you go. They are rebound adjustable shocks and have a lifetime warrenty to the orginal purchaser. Koni claim these shocks can handle spring rates upwards of 800lbs/inch (way more than we will ever have/need). This gives you many options. You can pair this with custom spring rate Ground Controls for $338. They have a lifetime warrenty (which incluldes a warrenty against sag). So lets say you prefer stiffer spring rates like I do for your needs. You choose 500/400 front and rear spring rates. Still the same $338. This comes to around $838-918 dollars for the set-up of adjustable Koni yellow shocks and the stiffer custom spring rates of 500/400 (or whatever you decide on). Much like teins with custom spring rates, the tuning isn't "prefectly matched" out of the box, but it's close and the koni's can handle a wide variety of spring rates.

very good info eckoman_pdx

very good info eckoman_pdx

I'm glad you found it helpful. I am always glad to help. :)

Great info! I feel well informed now.

So I took the car out for a test drive after I adjusted the timing and it is still doing its thing. It starts out real sluggish and then just takes off once i reach 2200 rpms? This cant be normal.

Im waiting on a throttle body gasket so i can take that all apart and really clean it up nice. Hopefully that will help. Also, i am going to look into the timing belt alignment.

I was looking through the ol manual when i noticed at 120K you are supposed to change the tranny fluid. is this dificult to do or can I do this myself too? do i need to do it, is a better question?


Any tips for vacuum leak testing??


Thanks again@!!!!!!

swapping tranny fluid is pretty easy ut make sure you see a picture of which two holes to drain and put it in, its the two that are more under the fuel inection, the 3/8's inch socket thing on the side next to the very end of the transmission is the reverse gear spring and if you take that one off on accident it can be a big problem. there is a bolt aout 3 or 4 inches located above another bolt. one is for filling up and one is for draining. the trick is to take them both out drain every last drop. put the bottom bolt back in, then get a beer bong oro similar contraption run the hose from the top of youre compartment down inside that top bolt, it takes 3.4liters of tranny fluid to fill up usually starts overflowing before that though because somes always left from the last fillup. never never use motor oil on a honda tranny if you drive it hard because it does not help youre synchros at all. go to youre dealership and fork over the 20 bucks for all the tranny fluid and then make a beer bong of some sort. make sure you know for sure you are messing with the right two bolts and please apply a fair amount of torque when putting them in, they are like 16 and or 17mm so you can imagine that they demand more torquing than say a 12mm. go to youre local parts store and look in the manual for actual pictures of which is the drain spot and which is the spill spot. i would remember if i see it ut i dont really rememer it, i was trying to hurry efore people yelled at me for doing what looked like half oil change, half college party in my engine compartment. and ya havingn the timing belt off even one tooth is a very big deal. take it back to wherever you got youre belt put in and ask them to make s ure its on right or check with the timing gun and whatever else is necessary (ive never done a timing belt swap)

to test for a vacuum leak, try squirting injector cleaner on or near suspected hoses, you might see a ubble or suction. its more likely that the leak is on a spot on the hose that is not viewable from the top than not. theres a lotta hoses back there :) but try spraying some inector cleaner around suspected areas and look for anything out of the ordinary and try wobbling hoses back and forth, one at a time

I lined it up perfectly in the middle of the three marks. No no no no no. The middle mark is TDC. The marks to the left and right are plus or minus two degrees. You need to find the one at the 16 degree mark. I cannot believe that no one caught that. One guy talks about shocks, antoher talks about tranny fluid and another talks about vacuum leaks. Forget all that, fix one problem first and then move on. Why didn't anyone else catch that?? :banghead: :banghead:

http://www.c-speedracing.com/howto/timing/pics/timing.jpg

That is what i was going off of. how do i find which on is sixteen degrees.

http://www.c-speedracing.com/howto/timing/timing.php

better link

I hate my car! it seems as if it is running better, but now the passenger side door does not open from the outside. Ill be trying to fix THAT this week too. :confused:

No no no no no. The middle mark is TDC. The marks to the left and right are plus or minus two degrees. You need to find the one at the 16 degree mark. I cannot believe that no one caught that. One guy talks about shocks, antoher talks about tranny fluid and another talks about vacuum leaks. Forget all that, fix one problem first and then move on. Why didn't anyone else catch that?? :banghead: :banghead:
I did catch it. I told him PAGES BACK to check the timing belt. I said I was willing to bet he algined the cam sprocket timing wrong when he installed the belt. I told him to check it, that the timing marks weren't lined up correct when he installed the belt. This is why I asked if he'd had a timing belt change recently. I didn't ask it for my health. This will throw the timing belt was off, it'll be off by a few teet, the timing wrong. I figuredthis was the issue becuase he had shitty gas milegage and sluggish acclertation, the @ THINGS this causes.

But you kept yammered on about checking the timing by jumping the ECU, never paid attetnion to my post or advice. My advice got left in the dust and forgeten. Don't be hypocritical and accuse of us "not catching it." I suggested that as a problem a few pages ago before he ever aked about tranny fluid or shocks. You missed it when I suggested it. Other people missed it or didn't pay attention also. Almost the enitre thread missed it when I mentioned it. Instead of accussing us of talking about EVERYTHING BUT THAT, you should stop bieng hypocritical. YOU should read more carfeully, as YOU missed it when I suggested it page a few pages. If you had paid attention, you'd have found I brought this up pages ago. It was my first post in this thread in fact that I mentioned it. Instead of asking how we could miss it, maybe people should pay better attention and stop being a hypocrite and trying top pass the blame onto EVERYONE ELSE. This was caught and suggested pages ago, but you and everyone else yammered on about everthing else.

After I caught that, I answered his question about shocks becuase he asked it. Do not make it sound bad that I correctly and thoroughly explained and answered his question aobut coilovers. The fact is he asked this AFTER I caught that improperly aglined timing marks from the timing belt change could be the problem. The fact is I suggested that as the problem and caught it beofre all of that was asked. Not just everyone, as you put it missed I mentioned that, you missed that I caught and mentioned this as well!! Before being hypocritical and blaming everyone else, try looking in the mirror first.

easy easy folks. i appreciate all the advise!!!! Ill be looking into the timing belt install issue this week.

Also, Im still not understanding what i did wrong on the timing thing.

This is the most helpful posting i have ever been apart and I would like to not piss anyone off. Cheers!

It's all-good no hard feelings. It's ok eckoman_pdx, really. Just wanted to make sure that it wasn't over looked. I would like you to explain to me how the belt would be able to move a few teeth? I am not starting an argument, just a question. If it does shift a few teeth, wouldn't there be more problems then gas mileage? How about broken rods? Again, not starting an argument, but for a belt to stretch by more then one tooth seems highly unlikely. I would bet that it will break before it stretches that much, guessing quarter of an inch. That seems like a lot. If it does shift by say one tooth, why would it not skip a few more here and there? Can you explain what you are trying to say here, "This will throw the timing belt was off, it'll be off by a few teet, the timing wrong” Something about a few teeth. One last thing buddy, Did I ever say "...everyone, as you put it missed...", I think not, I said "Why didn't anyone else catch that" I do not hear "everyone" in that sentence. Also, I read your remark about checking the timing belt. I am not the one asking for help but next time I will answer "Yes, I did check it about 2 months ago and it all looks well and is not stretched," just so that you will realize that your question did not get missed, ok. I congratulate you in being the first to ask about the timing belt. You must also note that most everyones response prior to yours was about assisting with the valve adjustment. I will say this again, no argument from me, I am not blaming everyone else, I am just trying to clarify your hostility. I promise I will look in the mirror ASAP.

I am not sure eckoman meant that the belt shifted a few teeth while the engine was running. I haven't really heard much about Hondas having problems with their timing belts shifting but that is a somewhat common problem on DSM's. I think what he meant was it is possible that when the timing belt was changed, it might not have been done correctly. Generally, cog belts don't stretch very much. They are not just rubber, they have fiber reinforcement in them. Plus, even if a timing belt does stretch a bit the tensioner is there to take up the slack.

Also, a timing belt shifting could possibly cause a rod to break, but most likely it would just cause valves to come in contact with pistons and bend.

I am not sure eckoman meant that the belt shifted a few teeth while the engine was running. I haven't really heard much about Hondas having problems with their timing belts shifting but that is a somewhat common problem on DSM's. I think what he meant was it is possible that when the timing belt was changed, it might not have been done correctly. Generally, cog belts don't stretch very much. They are not just rubber, they have fiber reinforcement in them. Plus, even if a timing belt does stretch a bit the tensioner is there to take up the slack.

Also, a timing belt shifting could possibly cause a rod to break, but most likely it would just cause valves to come in contact with pistons and bend.


Maitaracer, you hit what I ment EXACTLY ON THE HEAD.

polacek, there you go again ASSUMING. I NEVER SAID IT WAS STRECHTED, DID I? YOU MISUNDERSTOOD, YET AGAIN.

I ment exactly what Maitaracer stated, it might not have been installed correctly. It is PRETTY EASY for someone not experinenced to install a timing belt wrong, with the teeth or timing off, etc. Many things go into the install. I was suggesting the timing marks where not lined up correct, the belt was not INSTALLED correctly, or similer.

I know first hand that a belt installed with a few teeth off can really mess things up. Why? Happened three years ago to someone I know. My cousin and I prometly fixed that situation when he came up from SF. The acceleration was VERY sluggish, everything drock59 mentioned. drock59, check into it, I am still willing to bet the belt was not installed correctly as the root of the acceleration being sluggish, etc. The timing marks may have been off, the belt may have been installed wrong, something that caused the teeth to be off WHEN it was installed....not something that occured after.

polacek, I am not the only member who felt that your comments about "it being missed" where hypocritcal among other things. I happen to be the one who commented on it in the thread. yes do did refer to everyone missing it, can you not read??? let's quote you're illiterate ass.

I cannot believe that no one caught that.

As you can CLEARLY READ, YOU WROTE THAT YOU "cannot believe that no one caught that." As you can see, no where in that statement is the pharse, "I can't believe no one ELSE caught that." The word ELSE never appears. Further, someone ELSE DID CATCH IT, I CAUGHT IT A FEW PAGES BACK. No one one catching it is, by defination, everyone missing it. Or do you need to go but to grammer school and learn the english language?

You then blame EVERYONE ELSE FOR MISSING IT, but neglect to mention the fact that you missed it also, most notably when I suggested it.

However here you go again, trying to for a second time in as many posts to save face for hypocritical comment and a mistake you made. Maybe "look in the mirror" was too polite, maybe you need it spelled to you colder. Stop being a hypocritical ass trying to save face. You missed my suggestion much like everyone else. Big deal, who cares. But then you go and hypocritically blame everyone for missing it by stay you can't believe no one caught it. You make youreslf sound all great for mentioning this, hypocriticaly not mentioning the fact you missed also what a different member already pointed out a few pages back. You get called on this and then "try to not start something" by being insulting...hmm...what a great idea!!!

My hostility, as you put it, is due to the fact you missed the timing belt suggestion as the cause of his problems, and then passed the blame. You went on to procliam "I cannot believe that no one caught that." It was a shameless attempt at saving face, something I have NO RESPECT FOR ON THESE BOARDS.

We are all here to help, not save face and pass blame. If you would bother reading all my previous posts in here, you would notice they were all "helping posts" also, just like everyone elses. They either suggested and pointed out a potential reason for his problems or answered specific questions he was asking, they were not off topic by any means. The first none helpful post in here was your shameless attempt at passing blame, claiming "I cannot believe that no one caught that." News flash "buddy," YOU MISSED IT ALSO!!! THE ONLY ONE THAT DIDN'T WAS ME WHEN I POINTED OUT THAT AS A POTENTIAL PROBLEM PAGES BACK. But oh that's right...if you missed it then that makes you just like "everyone else," or as you put it, the "no one caught that" crowd. We can't have that can we?? No no, we must always be perfect!!!:shakehead

wow, eckoman_pdx I hate to keep this part of the post going, but I must correct you. In fact you did say on page three, Maybe the belt is too strechted and loose. That is why I said it. What can I say? Did I read that incorrectly? Please don’t yell at me, I was just trying to get information about how a belt can stretch. You are confusing me. First you say it might stretch, then you put in bold and capital letters (as if I cannot see) now let me quote you again….WHEN it was installed....not something that occured after I am not trying to be hypocritical. You cannot say big deal who cares that everyone else missed your timing belt suggestion. You are making a huge deal of it. I know YOU are the first one to talk about the timing belt, trust me I really do. I am not trying to sound great, I am not going to get rich off this, only my time (as everyone else here). I think I helped out too, eckoman_pdx. Just one sentence and you blow up in my face. I am not blaming. I didn’t say, “Don’t look at or change the belt that will not work”. That is in fact a good idea. I think YOU are missing the part where YOU said about the belt and I quote get too stretched and loose or worse, break (bye bye motor). If I am correct about your comment from page three, then no need to reply, if I am wrong with that comment, please correct me. Again, sorry for continuing to ruin this post, but I would like some clarification.

wow, eckoman_pdx I hate to keep this part of the post going, but I must correct you. In fact you did say on page three, That is why I said it. What can I say? Did I read that incorrectly? Please don’t yell at me, I was just trying to get information about how a belt can stretch. You are confusing me. First you say it might stretch, then you put in bold and capital letters (as if I cannot see) now let me quote you again I am not trying to be hypocritical. You cannot say big deal who cares that everyone else missed your timing belt suggestion. You are making a huge deal of it. I know YOU are the first one to talk about the timing belt, trust me I really do. I am not trying to sound great, I am not going to get rich off this, only my time (as everyone else here). I think I helped out too, eckoman_pdx. Just one sentence and you blow up in my face. I am not blaming. I didn’t say, “Don’t look at or change the belt that will not work”. That is in fact a good idea. I think YOU are missing the part where YOU said about the belt and I quote If I am correct about your comment from page three, then no need to reply, if I am wrong with that comment, please correct me. Again, sorry for continuing to ruin this post, but I would like some clarification.

I am not making a huge deal of it. I am sick to newbs like you coming in here and trying to say suttle shit like "I can't believe no one caught this" in order to make others look bad and themselves look good. It was a shamless attemp to pump up your reputation at other's expensive, when in fact the other's did nothing more wrong than you did. which is miss it TWICE when I mentioned it TWICE.

First off. I ment if the belt was old and worn that can occur. It does not often happen, as maitaracer also has said, but I HAVE seen it happen a few times. This was first post I mentioend this on. Why? Becuase I had no clue if he had an old belt or had changed it recently, so I was throwing out SEVERAL possiblities, no matter how likly or unlikely. Why? Because the fact is, although it's not commen to have such things like that occur on a honda (as maitaracer explained somewhat also), I have seen it occur once or twice. Sure it's more commen on a DSM and rather rare on a honda, but I threw It out on my first post because I had no infromation as to what was done when. I have seen it occur before once or twice, as I said. It started with sluggish acclertation, etc. The belt was loose but not broken. How I do not know. He didn't take care of it and boom, when the belt broke, dumbass lost his motor. I didn't know if drock59 had just done a belt change or never done one. Although it is still unlikely if he never did one it would stretch loose andnot break, I have seen it occur a few times, so why not mention it? Should I be an asshole and keep everything to myself? Of course not, and anyone who thinks otherwise ins't here to help.

Since you quoted me on page 3, lets' quote me AGAIN on page 4, since you seemed to be too blind to the fact I mentioned the timing belt twice before your billerant assertation of "I can't believe no one caught this." It was caugth, twice!!!

We'll repost page 4 for you, since you seem deterimned to only read what suits you best. We'll even put it in bold again so you can notice it and not miss it, so here we go.

Did the sluggish acceleration start after you changed the timing belt? If so how much afterwards did it start? If the timing marks alignment was off and not lined up correctly on the cam sprocket, the piston wasn't set @ TDC before the timing belt was done, then the timing belt teeth are off, causing the timing to be off. This will cause sluggish acceleration and hesitation.

However, seeing as you only see what helps you look good, I doubt you saw that. Afterall, it being mentioned twice and all, that doesn't make you look obsevant for missing it TWICE.

You hate to keep this going? Sounds like more of your bullshit, as you seem intent on going on the offensive to make others look bad so you can look better. You seem intent on tryin gto dig up ANYTHING you can to make others look bad. Newsflash dip, get a life and read. Undersatand what people say and mean instead of just interperating in any way you please. You'll find things easier in the fourms once you do. But that's right, that won't help you bash others to better your own reputation. No no, we can't have that can we!!!!:loser:

If you truly didn't want to keep this going, you'd do something you havn't done yet. Drop the shit and get back to helping the guy.

With that said...

drock59, it is hard to tell exactly where you might have gone wrong since none of us where there to see the install. It is hard to diagnose what in the install went wrong, as we were not there to see itand are still not there. If you can explain everything about the install exactly it may help. Even then, however, it can be hard to tell without actually being there, as words can be interperated differently by different people (as we have seen). If the problems are due to an incorrect timing belt install, like they may be, the simpliest way to fix the issue it to re-do the install completly and properly. Get a Helm's and look up Timing belt installation. It will give a step-by step on how it is done. If you do everything correctly, from where to set the crank, where to set the timing marks to how to install the belt (and everything in between), then any problems related to an incorrect install should be okay once your done. Now if you need help or are confused about things during the install, don't hesistate to ask for clarification by people. It's better to ask than be confused and do it wrong.

question about timing belt: is this a dificult procedure? Im building more confidence in my capabilities but i do not want to bite off more than i can chew.
Also, Im still wondering if there is an easy way to check if the timing belt is on correctly without taking it all apart. The belt was put on by our "family" mechanic. This guy has been working on cars longer than i have been alive, twice over. Maybe he made a mistake in his grizzled old age. THanks

Didn’t mean to stir up that much commotion. I hope eckoman_pdx can call it truce, I can only hope. As far as the timing belt, it is real easy to check. Do you have the shop manual? I am assuming that you do as you checked the valves. Post a reply with either yes or no and I will assist you in checking if the timing belt was done correctly

I have it in PDF format, so its not very easy to use. So, yes!

Didn’t mean to stir up that much commotion. I hope eckoman_pdx can call it truce, I can only hope. As far as the timing belt, it is real easy to check. Do you have the shop manual? I am assuming that you do as you checked the valves. Post a reply with either yes or no and I will assist you in checking if the timing belt was done correctly

In my last post I asked you "to drop the shit and get back to helping the guy." I then proceeded to do this myself, as I followed that statement by helping him. You however contuined to do the oppiste of dropping it. You said...

I hope eckoman_pdx can call it truce, I can only hope.

It was a cheap It was another cheap attempt to make a comment bringing someone down so that you may better your reputation. The only reputation you are hurting is your own. All the vets can see what is happening. Just because they don't comment about it in the public forums doesn't me they don't realize it. You do not know me, as you are new to this site n the last month. That being said, you really don't know many members here. Ask any OG on this site, Maitaracer, GScivic7, and they will tell you the same thing. I don't stir up commotion and I almost never flame. I've been here a long time, and I never stir up commotion for no reason and I almost never flame. You havn't been here long.

I can only hope.

Comments like this only hurt your reputation, as you are new here. You havn't been around very long, and if you had you certainly would know that comment for what it is. A cheap inflamitory pot-shot ment to make you look good and someone else look bad.

I said it before and I'll say it again. Drop the cheap pot-shots, all of it. Just get back to helping the guy. If you can't help him without taking cheap pot-shots such as... I can only hope....then maybe you shouldn't post.

Stop the cheap-pot shots, the inflamitory statements and all the rest. I already dropped it and did my part at the end of my previous post. My question was could you? In your previous post you were unable to do so. You insisted on trying to sneek a little pot-shot in there anyways, saying "I can only hope." You only hurt your own reputation by attempting such cheap pot-shots. Remember, long-standing members already have a reputation, but new members like yourself are still trying to build one. Do yourself a favor get back to helping drock59 without taking cheap inflamitory pot shots. You are only hurting your own reputation by refusing to do so.

drock59, I know you stated at the start of the thread that you have the Helms in PDF formate.Go to the index and look up the pages that the timing belt would be on. Then go to print and print only the pages that are those page numbers. That will allow you to have the instructions and any other info you need in front of you the whole time, without having to repeatedly go back to the computer to look. Make sure you are comfortable with all of it and fully understand the procedures before you start anything. Remember, if you have any questions, just ask. :)

eckoman_pdx I am not putting out cheap shots. I called out truce and that is it. If you dropped it, then maybe you can say truce, but nope gotta rip my ass apart for me calling truce. Why is it that I cannot post, say sorry and move on? I am interested in helping the guy, and so are you. I looked today, drock59 posted the question yesterday, you didn't respond for almost 24 hours, so I thought that you decided not help out. You post essays ripping me apart and all I say is "truce, I can only hope" and I get it up the ass from you. Now your gonna say that I like it up the butt, that I am not the one caring, that I take cheap shots at others, that I am a fu$%^&, call me what ever you want. I say sorry. I beg you to stop beating me up, please. eos

Without using the PDF format, to check if the timing belt is off, you need to remove the top plastic covering the cam pulley. You have the D15B7 so you need to look on the cam pulley for the "UP" mark. Turn the crankshaft pulley with a large socket counter-clockwise. Make sure that it is up. There are also TDC marks roughly 90 from the "UP" mark that line up with the cylinder head. Once those are set you check the crankshaft pulley and the TDC mark (white) will line up with the same markings on the engine block when you checked the timing. good luck. Most importantly, take off the ground from the battery before putting your hands near the timing belt area, never know what might happen.

I found some sites about timing belts having stretch-resistant capabilities:
http://www.carcarecouncil.org/Belts_Hoses/timing_belt.shtml
This one is very good:
http://www.aa1car.com/library/ar594.htm
"Contrary to what you might think, rubber timing belts do not stretch with accumulated mileage and wear. They are reinforced with strands of fiberglass which makes them virtually unstretchable."
This one sums it all up about the fibers holding the timing belt, not the rubber:
http://www.importperformanceparts.net/imports/articles_timing.html
"chains stretch and belts weaken"

Ok gentlemen, that is just about enough poo throwing in here.

Don’t make me put a stop to this drama with the mod powers I don't have!!

**and now back to your regularly scheduled timing belt question programming**

Just to clarify one thing, the timing belt tensioner does NOT take up the slack if the belt were to stretch after installation was complete, ie 20,000 miles later. The spring in the adjusting pulley only aids the mechanic with the proper tension. After the installation of the timing belt, the adjustment bolt on the adjusting pulley gets bolted down to a specification of 33lb-ft.

eckoman_pdx I am not putting out cheap shots. I called out truce and that is it. If you dropped it, then maybe you can say truce, but nope gotta rip my ass apart for me calling truce. Why is it that I cannot post, say sorry and move on? I am interested in helping the guy, and so are you. I looked today, drock59 posted the question yesterday, you didn't respond for almost 24 hours, so I thought that you decided not help out. You post essays ripping me apart and all I say is "truce, I can only hope" and I get it up the ass from you. Now your gonna say that I like it up the butt, that I am not the one caring, that I take cheap shots at others, that I am a fu$%^&, call me what ever you want. I say sorry. I beg you to stop beating me up, please. eos

A truce would have been "Didn’t mean to stir up that much commotion. I hope we can call it truce."

Saying "I can only hope" afterwards is a cheap subliminal pot-shot IMO. Saying that afterwards doesn't fall in line with a truce, it falls in line with a cheap pot-shot thrown after a truce statement to save face.

I don't enjoy this stuff, and I am sure you don't either. I want a truce also. If you want a truce, I am truly fine with this. Throwing in statements like "I can only hope" though don't make it a truce. As I said, they are a pot-shot thrown after a truce statement to save face.

So here it is, I hope we can call it truce right now. I'll drop it right now, and you can too. :smile: :bigthumb:

ok, ill get on it later this week. Thanks
Dan,
so I dont have to be reffered to as "the guy" :)

ok, ill get on it later this week. Thanks
Dan,
so I dont have to be reffered to as "the guy" :)

LOL...nice to meet you Dan :smile:

ok, ill get on it later this week. Thanks
Dan,
so I dont have to be reffered to as "the guy" :)
What up guy :p

so anyway, I think my engine is a D16Y8, is it not. 97 EX? Still trying to find the time to check the belt.

Guy

Yes it is

My bad, I was looking at the title of this post. It would still be the same though. Not sure why I had specified 92 DX on the timing belt. I hope up in any other world is UP. :smile:

so more good news on my nice peice of shit. I just recorded an all time new low in gas mileage. 192 miles on a full tank. Granted i was tinkering with the engine here and there but that is about 100 miles off of what i normally get. If the next tank is that bad I will be pissed.

Also, i am having a new problem. On a cold start, the car doesnt start up for maybe ten seconds. It turns over but it does not start. Any thoughts?

Ill be looking into the timing belt issue this weekend hopefully. Moving into a new house, so things are hectic.
Dan

Hate to bring it up again, but did you adjust the valves with the correct thickness feeler gauge? That is all I can think of, otherwise electrical, as you have done everything else mechanical (I think).

The valves are good, i think. I have to open it up again to look at the timing belt, so I will double check. Kinda weird either way.

My passenger door is no longer opeing either. I really do not like this car.

OK, finally im back. I moved into a new house and have been outragously busy. IM GOING to check the timing belt alignment in the next couple of days. Other than that I am at a loss.

Been a long time for sure. I don't have time to look over the post, but did you replace the fuel filter?

i replaced the FF about two months ago. Ill update you about the timing belt as soon as have time to open her up!

ok, im checking the timing belt tonight. I took off the vavle cover and the timing belt cover. I lined up the up mark as best as i could. Then i looked for the top dead center mark and it is out of whack! Does it have to be perfectly lined up to the marks on the cylinder head?

Ill try and take a photo.


If this is messed up how do i fix it?

well i couldnt quite get a photo of it but i made a crude drawing.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v630/drock59/timingbelt.jpg