Hey ya'll just yesterday i got some new 17" rims for my civic. They look real good my only concern is that they do rub sometimes. So now i am thinking about what to do. My only idea is to buy some adjustable springs like skunk2 coilovers or something. i have the eibach sportline springs now that lower it about 2 inches. So im thinking i will replace them with some different ones cuz i dont have the money to spend on a true coilvers right now. So my question is how is the ride quality on the skunk2 coilovers compared to my eibachs? Any suggestions on what to get as far as good quality, ride, and so on? thanks....

you could roll your fenders. If you want to get coilovers, skunk2 are great, they ride a little harsher because they use stiffer springs, but they are good. Ground Controls ride really nice, they use softer springs though. If you want to go with just springs, H&R are my favorites.

Your problem is you bought 17's.

Your problem is you bought 17's.

agreed. You bought 17-inch rims for a car designed for 13-inch rims, AND lowered it from stock by 2 inches? Dude, at that point, it's not rubbing, it's grinding.

agreed. You bought 17-inch rims for a car designed for 13-inch rims, AND lowered it from stock by 2 inches? Dude, at that point, it's not rubbing, it's grinding.

well said.

TO get an idea what the difference between 15s and say 17s would be for example: my Kosei K1 15x7" weigh 14lbs - with 205/50x15" Azenis it comes out to 34lbs. The 17s weigh 17lbs and if I remember right when I weighed my 17s (this was 6 years ago) they weighed 50lbs. That's a difference of 16lbs PER CORNER. Total of 50lbs you are spinning.

And remember my rule for every pound of wheel/tire mass that equals 8lbs static body weight. So....

34*8=272lbs
50*8=400lbs - this would be like carrying one extra person.

And there is no way you can get a 17" wheel and tire to weigh the same or less than a 15" setup. And if you could the weight would be further out from the center, hence more power and torque to turn it anyway.

You can think of it this way. A figure skater with her arms out will spin slower, when she brings her arms in she is able to spin faster - no change in weight whatsoever.

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This was posted by the mod in an earlier thread and it speaks volumes...

and it has nothing to do with his 17's rubbing does it...

No, but it has everything to do with takeing them off...

Well, he didn't ask advice on whether he should take them off, he asked fro advice on the 17's rubbing, and for opinions on qaulity and comfort in coilovers.

As for the wheels rubbing, first off, what is the wheel offset of the 17's you have?

Second, excatly where is it rubbing; have you rolled your fenders yet? This sometimes helps solve the problems associated with rubbing.

Many times, rolling your fenders can help with the problem of rubbing cuased by rims and a lowered car in combination.

BTW, for the purpose of this conversaion, the wheel/tire DIAMETER/CIRCUMFERENCE should be the same, assuming he upsized corrected, as it would be with 15's or 16's, there is just less sidewall. Remember, you get more wheel and less tire sidewall, but the overall diameter/cirumference stays the same. Now, assumming the 15's or 16's STILL run a 205mm tire width, the width is the same also. This means, chances are he'd be rubbing even if he HAD 16's or 15's, etc. The width and diameter would be the same (assuming he had 205/45/16 or 205/50/15). This being said, he's not rubbing becuase he "got 17's." Chances are it's a combo of the increased TIRE WIDTH and the car being lowered, in combo. This said, even if he had 16's, he still will most likely rub lowered. You might not think it's "COOL" to have 17's, but don't just bash and act like thats the SOLE REASON he rubs, because there is very likely more to it than that. Help the poor guy figure his problem out, don't just say "drop the 17's, thats why."

No, it's not the only reason why. He lowered the car 2", and he went from a tire with a width of around 5.5" (around 175mm or so) to one with a width of 7" (205mm), thats a big part of it right there. He lowered the car and got a wider tire, and guess what..15's and 16's also share a wider tire. If he had 15's or 16's with a 205mm tire width, the problem still likely occurs.

BTW, for the purpose of this conversaion, the wheel/tire DIAMETER/CIRCUMFERENCE should be the same, assuming he upsized corrected, as it would be with 15's or 16's, there is just less sidewall. Remember, you get more wheel and less tire sidewall, but the overall diameter/cirumference stays the same. Now, assumming the 15's or 16's STILL run a 205mm tire width, the width is the same also. This means, chances are he'd be rubbing even if he HAD 16's or 15's, etc. The width and diameter would be the same (assuming he had 205/45/16 or 205/50/15). This being said, he's not rubbing becuase he "got 17's." Chances are it's a combo of the increased TIRE WIDTH and the car being lowered, in combo

This is a load of crap and you know it, and I'm calling you on it. If he was going from a set of stock 13" or 14" OEM wheels, to a set of 15" aftermarket rims, THEN, I might ask if he is using low-profile tires, to come close to the same total diameter. But saying that he went from 13" rims to 17" rims, and is making up the difference in total diameter by using low profile rubber, is totally off. The largest jump you can get, and still have a same total OD (outer diameter) would be from 13"-15", MAX. In fact, according to the guy at the local Firestone/Brigestone place, the largest they can go is from 13"-14" and keep the same OD. Even assuming that he is using Yokohama's, or other sport-compact oriented tires, you are not going to come close to the same total OD when going from 13" rims to 17" rims. He's ricing it out, pure and simple, and probably has close to a 3-inch increase in OD from stock. Combine that with a 2-inch body drop, and you have rubbing, or rather, grinding.

mattyoung33: If you insist on continuing with this farsical sillyness, I would suggest that you roll your fenders as soon as possible, reroute any wiring that's currently protruding into the wheel wells out of it, and generally make sure there are no sharp spots in any of your wheel wells. I would strongly consider upping the height (in some method) so you only have a 1.5 inch drop. that half-inch will not make the car look much different, but can provide a critical space of travel for your tires and suspension. Find a friend with a Sport Compact Car subscription, and hunt through his archive of issues- there was a decent guide to putting larger rims in a car, that explained the in's and out's of rolling fenders, etc.

3 inch my ass

http://www.miata.net/garage/tirecalc.html

go there and put in the sizes, it's an entire .8 inch increase in total diameter. 17's are not rice, you're just a dumbass JDM bandwagon jumper.

BTW, going with 16's and 205/40 rubber makes it only .2 inches taller, not much of a difference.

All of this bullshit aside. The easiest way to roll your fenders is to grab a louisville slugger, place it between your tire and fender and gently move it up and down, it will help you out a lot.

BTW: what size tires do you have on your wheels?

I have a car that started with 13's jack-ass, and I have 17's on it now and 18's in the garage..with a 1.75" drop...I know the friggen size difference, it's not that much...it's sure as hell not 3 inchs. Three inchs? Where did you learn math? The difference is not much...to put in in perseptive...my speedo is 99.6% accurate...WITH THE 17's!!!! Thats not a HUGE 3 inch circumfrence difference....3 inchs would be a hell of a lot more than 0.3-0.4% off...learn math numbskull....as I said, not very much of a difference.

What, is this CRAP??? "If he was going from a set of stock 13" or 14" OEM wheels, to a set of 15" aftermarket rims, THEN, I might ask if he is using low-profile tires, to come close to the same total diameter. But saying that he went from 13" rims to 17" rims, and is making up the difference in total diameter by using low profile rubber, is totally off. The largest jump you can get, and still have a same total OD (outer diameter) would be from 13"-15", MAX.

Do the math, if he started with 65 series tires on 13's, then 14's=60, 15's=55, 16's=50, 17's=45...if he started with 60 series tires on 13's, 14's eqaul 55, 15's =50, 16's=45, 17's=40...it's called plus sizing...EVER HEARD OF THIS CONCEPT??? NOW....40-45 SERIES = LOW PROFILE....GEEZ...GET A CLUE.

And the diameter....gasp....still the same....OMG....I can't believe it, he plus sized to a 17, he went from a 60-series sidewall to a 40 series, and was able to keep the diameter close...OMG, how, what new technology, teach us all!!!!

Before you go aroun and try and act all billy badass, try and know what your saying. To say you can ONLY go from a 13 to a 15 and keep a diameter even close, and this and only this can use low profiles to do it, shows you have NO CONCEPT OF ANYTHING TO DO WITH TIRES....NONE!!!!!

Don't call BS if it's not BS. I get sick of all you asswipes calling everything rice..."rims are rice." Since when did 17's become rice....oh, thats right, those 17's that came stock on the BMW, SOOO RICEY....DAMN BMW, FORCING ME TO BUY A $50,000 CAR WITH 17'S, SO TACKY!!! AND SCREW PORSCHE, 18'S...WAYYYY TOO BIG, NEVER DRIVE THAT POS.

Get a life and stop jumping on the bandwagon..I get sick of all these jdm bandwagon freaks, it's jerks like that that ruin hondas for everyone..."if it's not like this it's not cool."

I don't give a rats ass if you think it's cool. If we all drove "cool jdm cars" we'd all be like cookie cutter cars, looking the EXACT SAME.

As was already said and I ALREADY SUGGESTED...roll the fenders...gee, seems like you FINALLY decided to suggest it, AFTER I DID...didn't see you quoting that. Oh thats right, that might show I know a little something, can't do that can we? Also, didn't see you attacking the tire width...geez, thats because that's correct too, and you damn well know it. I have no patience for people who come in here and try to act all big and bad, calling everyone "on bs" and sh*t. It's crap like this that gives people bad advice, and everyone pays when some kid goes in not knowing sh*t. Then everyone who drives a honda gets pegged.



Anyways, mattyoung33, roll your fenders if you haven't yet. If you're worried about it, do a search on how or pm the mod civicsiracer, he can give you a good walkthrough if you need one. Also, as GScivic7 asked, what size tires do you have, and as I asked above, what is your wheel offset. As I said in my previous post, both of these things can play a roll as well.

I get sick of all you asswipes calling everything rice..."rims are rice." Since when did 17's become rice....oh, thats right, those 17's that came stock on the BMW, SOOO RICEY....DAMN BMW, FORCING ME TO BUY A $50,000 CAR WITH 17'S, SO TACKY!!! AND SCREW PORSCHE, 18'S...WAYYYY TOO BIG, NEVER DRIVE THAT POS.

Get a life and stop jumping on the bandwagon..I get sick of all these jdm bandwagon freaks, it's jerks like that that ruin hondas for everyone..."if it's not like this it's not cool."

I'm not the kind of person that gets all childish on the internet, but maybe I can help you out with some of these questions. I don't know about the term "RICE", but I can think of a few others terms that describe putting wheels that are four inches bigger than oem specs on an economy car. If you had a luxury car, then that would be one thing, because the oversized wheel goes along with the luxury theme, or even a truck.

If a car company (BMW) puts 17's on it stock, then thats what it's made to hold. You can go up or down a size or two for performance and looks, but when you get to the point where you have to roll your fenders with a bat, it gets silly.

As far as the "band wagon" thing goes. I think that wagon is driving on 20's, meaning big wheels is the style now. A person could say, you are the one on the band wagon. If not, then why else would you up size a wheel 4 inches? There is absolutely no plus side to it, except looks. (band wagon)

So my question is how is the ride quality on the skunk2 coilovers compared to my eibachs? Any suggestions on what to get as far as good quality, ride, and so on? thanks....

I don't have any experience with eibachs, but skunk2 coils are great!

I'm not the kind of person that gets all childish on the internet, but maybe I can help you out with some of these questions. I don't know about the term "RICE", but I can think of a few others terms that describe putting wheels that are four inches bigger than oem specs on an economy car. If you had a luxury car, then that would be one thing, because the oversized wheel goes along with the luxury theme, or even a truck.

If a car company (BMW) puts 17's on it stock, then thats what it's made to hold. You can go up or down a size or two for performance and looks, but when you get to the point where you have to roll your fenders with a bat, it gets silly.

As far as the "band wagon" thing goes. I think that wagon is driving on 20's, meaning big wheels is the style now. A person could say, you are the one on the band wagon. If not, then why else would you up size a wheel 4 inches? There is absolutely no plus side to it, except looks. (band wagon)
it's kinda funny how for the past 5 years I've been into Hondas, 17's have been the norm for most Hondas, and very few people have had problems with them aslong as the wheel has the correct offset and correct size tire to go along with them. Until this whole JDM bullshit started and now you're not cool unless you're rolling 15's.

And how many Civics do you see out there with 20's? I don't remember seeing more than 3 at the most and that's just on the net, never in real life. So since when has it become the bandwagon to throw 20's on a Civic? You can't generalize all of the "cool" things to do with all makes and models of cars.

BTW: Civic HX's came with 14" from the factory, not 13's get your shit straight. And as far as I know, you can fit factory HONDA 15" Civic and Integra rims on any Civic or Integra and not have a problem whatsoever, so doesn't that mean that the fenders were molded for 15's and not 13's. :rolleyes:

My comment was a general one. I wouldn't think some one would put 20's on a civic, but big wheels are whats in. Maybe not with the JDM crowd, but they just make up a small portion of the civic owners. For everyone else, the norm is, bigger, is better. I have nothing against big wheels, but it only hearts performance.

A bigger and wider wheel gives you better traction, sure it'll hurt HP, but not in the corners. Big wheels have always been in, and will always be in. Anything bigger than a 17 on a civic I do think is a bit ridiculous, but I think a 17" wheel is the perfect compromise of performance and looks. I myself would never go bigger than a 16" wheel on a Civic, but that's just me, one of many many people who are into imports. That doesn't justify me coming on here and bashing the creator and people who are actually trying to help this person out, no more than it does you or anyone else.

Wouldn't it be great if AF had two different 92+ Civic forums - one for those who are into the ricer look, one for performance? That would sure help with a lot of these conflicts. Not gonna happen, but it would be nice.

BTW, in keeping with the topic, I "roll" 14's. I really have no opinion on whether 17's suck or not, but 14's is what the car came with so that's what I kept (I have alloy rims, and my tires are wider than stock - 195-60-14 - but I didn't see any benefit for me to get bigger wheels, just more surface area for rock dings and curb rash).

haha wow...well first of all there is no way i would take my brand new 17" wheels off of my car lol. Second, having 17s is not rice and if you think that you are a fucking idiot(GEEKO). If you look at my car it is the probably the farthest thing from rice... mugen lip kit, lowered, plain 5-spoke wheels, decent low sounding exhaust..... NOT rice. No altezzas, no wings, no 18" rims, no big bodykits, etc. you get my point. I know that 17s affect the performance of my car...but guess what its an HX and until i get some DOHC VTEC engine in my car im gonan make it look nice, not be a race car.
My tires are 205/40/17...Khumo's. I appreciate the help with this... but what exactly does rolling your fenders mean? i have heard it before but dont really have an understanding of it or how to do this(lousivlle slugger?? lol). Also... my friend tried telling me that this guy at a speed shop by where we lived told him i probably got the wrong sized tires? what size would i go with? tire rack 205/40/17 is the option they give what else would i get?


BTW: i have a friend that has 17s on his civic Si with a built-up turbo, type-r lip kit, etc. (Geeko if you call that rice you can suck my big hard cock :iceslolan )

i will try to find a DIY for rolling your fenders, it's pretty simple and yes I wasn't kidding, you do use a bat to do it. 205/40 is the tire size you want. What is the offset on your rims?


Okay, this was the best I could do, pretty basic explanation but I think you'll get the idea.

http://vamp.darkravers.net/DIYRollingFenders.cfm

GScivic7 already provided you with a link to help you understand rolling your fenders. Rolling them will help aleaviate the rubbing. As I said, civicsiracer (the mod) can also help provide you with a decent "how-to" with rolling your fenders. Read up and do it yourself, it will help.

Also, 205/40/17 tires are the correct sized tires. This is the proper tire size when "up-sizing" a honda to 17's, so your tire size is fine.

As GScivic7 and I both said, wheel offset can make a BIG difference, and the wrong offset can cause rubbing. What is your wheel offset?

Either way, if your offset is a little off, rolling the fenders will go a long way towards solving the rubbing problem.

BTW, it's not just because he has 17's he's having to roll the fenders, underrstand this. It's the whole combo of things, the wheel offset, the tire width (7inchs, 205mm vs, 5.5inchs) the fact the car is lowered 2". Even if he has 15's or 16's, chances are he still coul dvery well have a 205mm thread width tire. With a 2" drop and especially if you have a slightly incorrect off-set, it's still entirly possible to rub on had corners, etc.

b18 ls said "but when you get to the point where you have to roll your fenders with a bat, it gets silly."

Understand, he's not having to roll the fenders just because he has 17's. Blaming it souly on the wheel size is unfair. It's more to do with the thread width (205mm), the fact the car is lowered 2" and if he has a slightly wrong off-set then thats part of it too. If he had 16's, lowered 2", 45 series tires with a 205mm thread width and a sligthyl off offset, he very well still could rub. He' not rubbing just because he has 17's, it's the WHOLE combo of things. People too often just blame it on the wheels, and thats ust not fair. Wheel size, like 17" wheels, arn't the ONLY reason you might rub. As I said, in a lot of cases, there are many other factors playing into it. If you want to call the whole combo silly, "Lowering your car, getting wider tires, messing with off-set," the fine, thats your opinion. But the rubbing has more to do with that combo of things than the fact he's rolling 17's.