If it's not the brakes, then what IS it?

No response to my post re: a loud clunking noise yesterday and feeling like the back passenger side brake had locked while moving slowly. Took it to the dealer this morning and in addition to putting on new tires (part of the sale negotiation), he checked the brakes (said they were new) and said that the rotors looked okay, too.

This afternoon it did it again, but not for as long--only a clunk or two. I wasn't applying the brake but was moving slowly and turning into a parking space. Again the sound and feeling that something isn't moving that SHOULD be moving. Hard to describe.

Again this afternoon I'd been driving for a while when it happened, and just like yesterday, it was raining. I know that the brakes used to "grab" on my other car when they were wet, but this seems different.

Being new to the world of SUVs in general and Jeeps in particular, I don't know how to begin to diagnose this. Any suggestions? (Of course the limited dealership warranty that came with this '95 only covers engine and transmission. I'm on my own if it's something else.)

Wheel bearing or hub maybe?? Just an idea.

Wheel bearing or hub maybe?? Just an idea.

Thanks so much for the reply! That gave me another thing to search for in the forum and I found a thread that discusses something similar.

What's strange, though, is that it's only done this when it's been raining. Of course I haven't had it that long (bought it Tuesday) and it's been raining the last 2 days....! And as for tight turns, it actually has a better turning radius than the Ford Contour I traded in, and it's easier to park.

I just hope I'm not looking at a major problem--or even a minor one, at this point. Currently trying to come up with enough $$$ to replace the transmission on my son's Prelude. Sometimes I'm ready to line up every vehicle we've got and push 'em all over the nearest cliff!

It's hard to say what it could be. maybe some more info would help. What year Jeep? Does it have full time 4wd or can you select between full and part time 4wd? How many miles are on it?
ByronP

It's hard to say what it could be. maybe some more info would help. What year Jeep? Does it have full time 4wd or can you select between full and part time 4wd? How many miles are on it?
ByronP

Thanks for asking, Byron. I tried to reply last night JUST as the forums became unavailable....

It's a 95 Jeep Grand Cherokee Laredo with 81K and full time 4WD. I bought it on Tuesday (August 10th) and it has a limited 30 day/1200 mile warranty which just covers engine and transmission.

http://www.art-rageous.net/Jeep4-081004.jpg

The exterior is in flawless condition and the interior is in very, very good condition. Carfax report came back clean.

Aside from some quirky (and apparently typical) electrical issues, such as blank radio/CD screen, rear lamp failure warning (wrong), I was very impressed with how it drove and handled. It has a tighter turning radius than the car I traded in ('98 Ford Contour) and it's easier to park.

On Wednesday, when it was raining, I was making a sharp right turn into a parking lot when I heard a loud "clunking" sound that seemed to come from the rear passenger side wheel. (My FIRST thought was: "Oh my god, what did I just run over?!") It felt like the brake had locked up. This continued even after the wheels were straightened out. It made like 5 "clunks". I pulled into a parking space (turning left) and stopped, got out, and of course could see nothing.

When I got in and started it again to pull out of the space, it did it again, and then briefly clunked on the front passenger side. I continued to drive it and had no further problems that day, but I called the salesman that I'd bought it from and explained what had happened.

The next morning I drove it back to the dealership to have new tires put on (part of the sales deal). No problem getting there and I asked them to please check the brakes, rotors, etc. (all I knew to ask about). Tires were put on and I was told that the brakes looked new and that the rotors were in good condition.

It did it again that afternoon, but just for a second. Again it was raining and I was making a sharp turn at low speed (in a parking lot).

In searching the forums, I read (and posted in) the thread about a "knocking" sound coming when making turns. IMHO, it's more than a "knock"--it's a "CLUNK"! But even though I've tried to recreate this by making some tight turns, it hasn't done it again. And it hasn't been raining.... Frustrating when problems are intermittent because it's easier to diagnose when something happens all the time.

In the other thread wheel bearings were mentioned as well as other possibilities. I haven't found anyone say they know exactly what it is and how it can be fixed.

I just hope it's not going to be something that's really difficult or expensive to fix.....

Sharon, GC looks great. I'm in the same boat as you
as I just bought a nice white 95 Limited and it hops into parking spaces. Read the thread "tight turns for more info.
BD

I`m willing to bet your VC is bad . If you can take the front drive shaft out and see if it still clunks.

Sharon, GC looks great. I'm in the same boat as you
as I just bought a nice white 95 Limited and it hops into parking spaces. Read the thread "tight turns for more info.
BD

Thanks for the reference--interesting thread...... I wasn't out much today, but it WAS raining and I couldn't recreate the sound/feel. Does yours ALWAYS "hop into parking spaces"?

Again, it's strange when a problem comes and goes, and the fact that it was raining both times that it did this may have been purely coincidental.

But yes, thanks, it's an awesome looking GC! Years and years ago (probably in '93 when I think this body style was first introduced) I was drooling over one displayed at the mall. (It was white.) Thought it was one of the classiest, sturdiest and coolest looking vehicles ever made--and still do! Just hope it behaves itself mechanically!

I`m willing to bet your VC is bad . If you can take the front drive shaft out and see if it still clunks.

I wonder though.... in the "tight turns" thread someone said that if the VC was bad it would "shake and vibrate when going straight down the road". And unlike what BillD wrote in this thread, this one doesn't "hop into parking spaces"--wouldn't describe it that way at all. So dunno. I've only had it since Tuesday, August 10th and when I first thought I was dealing with a brake that was locking up, I was concerned that I'd be flying down the interstate and 1/4 of the thing would decide to stop--which probably wouldn't be good for the remaining 3/4! :eek:

I'll see if it continues to do this (hope not!!), and if it does at least I've got something definite to ask about if I have to take it into a shop. Thanks for replying! :)

GC has front wheel bearings only and are permenantly sealed. Not a big mechanic, but I wouldn't think that would contribute to the clunk in the rear. A low speed knock would indicate some things, but it would be fairly consistent. You said this occured briefly the few times it happened and then went away. hmmmm. Any noticable vibration when this happened? Or just the clunk sound/feel?

Go out somewhere and do some various size figure 8's to see what it does now. Has this occured in reverse?

I wonder if on the turns the rear axle differential is not working properly, although a little sporadic. The compensation for the inner wheel versus the outer wheel during the turn is not occurring.

anyway that's all i have in mind. Good luck from a backyard mechanic wanna-be who probably doesn't know what he's talking about.

GC has front wheel bearings only and are permenantly sealed. Not a big mechanic, but I wouldn't think that would contribute to the clunk in the rear. A low speed knock would indicate some things, but it would be fairly consistent. You said this occured briefly the few times it happened and then went away. hmmmm. Any noticable vibration when this happened? Or just the clunk sound/feel?

Go out somewhere and do some various size figure 8's to see what it does now. Has this occured in reverse?

I wonder if on the turns the rear axle differential is not working properly, although a little sporadic. The compensation for the inner wheel versus the outer wheel during the turn is not occurring.

anyway that's all i have in mind. Good luck from a backyard mechanic wanna-be who probably doesn't know what he's talking about.

Nope, no vibration--just the sound and feeling that the back passenger side wheel wasn't moving and was "stuck". And since it then happened with the FRONT passenger wheel (same episode) I was totally clueless. When I was backing out of my driveway the other day, there was a bit of hesitation that made me THINK that it was going to happen while in reverse, but it didn't.

It hasn't happened since Wednesday, even though it's been raining some (as it was doing both times it happened) and despite me TRYING to make it do this! Intermittent problems make me crazy! :banghead: I'll try your figure 8 idea to see if I can provoke it into acting up!

As I've posted, I just bought this on Tuesday, August 10th. I have a limited 30 day/1200 mile dealership warranty that just covers engine and transmission, so I'd like to at least try to prove or rule out that either of these things are faulty. IF it's the VC as someone else suggested, that might be covered, but I'm not convinced it's that.

Again, I sure hope there's nothing seriously (or expensively!) wrong with it. School starts in 2 weeks so it's got to be ready to run dependably (I'm a teacher), plus most of my $$$ is going to help keep my sons' cars on the road. Always something!

You've got yourself a bad Viscous coupling. A bad VC will NOT cause vibrations as you go straight down the road, that guy didn't know what he was talking about. The VC may cause a binding feeling when turning, a clunking or banging as you turn regardless of whether you are braking or not. The hotter it gets the worse they get. Drive it for a long period of time and see if it gets worse.

You've got yourself a bad Viscous coupling. A bad VC will NOT cause vibrations as you go straight down the road, that guy didn't know what he was talking about. The VC may cause a binding feeling when turning, a clunking or banging as you turn regardless of whether you are braking or not. The hotter it gets the worse they get. Drive it for a long period of time and see if it gets worse.

I've been reading through the other thread again about "tight turns" and if it IS the VC, it's something that MAY be able to be replaced without totally rebuilding or replacing the transfer case, right? Do you suppose this is something that would be covered under the "transmission" part of the limited warranty? Not sure how to approach the dealer with this--he was happy to let me assume (initially) that it was just a problem with the brakes being wet....

What I've learned about cars over the years has mainly been a result of things that have gone wrong. :banghead: I always try to be as informed as possible (thanks to the internet and forums like this!) before going to a mechanic because they automatically assume that I know nothing. (Fortunately, most of the ones that I've dealt with recently are reputable and respect the fact that I'll check and double check any of the work that they recommend.) Still no desire to become a mechanic--lol--but because I AM interested in safety, dependability and $$$, it pays to be informed!

Again, though, is the condition of the VC something that can be seen without tearing everything out? Is it something that visibly looks worn or damaged? Just wondering what's going to be involved (other than my description of what it's doing) in making an accurate diagnosis before approaching the dealer that I bought it from. And either today or tomorrow I want to run it like crazy to see if I can provoke it into acting up again. Also need to call the local Jeep dealership to check about the two recalls that were never fixed. Not sure if there's a time limit on that or not....

Well The VC is a sealed unit. It has a welded case and it's internal in the transfer case, so visually no, you will not see a problem. Take the tech for a ride with you and explain and show him what happens. If they claim it's normal go to a competent garage and get an estimate, then bring it back and threaten to sue and file a claim with the department of motor vehicles and with the better business bureau. If it's bad they need to acknowledge it.

Sharon, as Jam 454 and others stated, drive it till it's hot.(Dry conditions) Then try to pull into a tight parking spot. You'll feel and hear binding noises. This is the time to show the sellers. It's a powertrain warrenty issue. My mistake when I test drove mine was I didn't get it hot enough to act up. I drove it in tight circles in a parking lot trouble free. It's after I bought it and really ran it where the problems began. I'm gonna change out my VC as I'm convinced that what it is. I've had many Jeep Cj's and I know what they do in 4wd on dry pavement, just what the GC is doing.
Let us know how you make out.
Good Luck
BD
BD

Sharon, as Jam 454 and others stated, drive it till it's hot.(Dry conditions) Then try to pull into a tight parking spot. You'll feel and hear binding noises. This is the time to show the sellers. It's a powertrain warrenty issue. My mistake when I test drove mine was I didn't get it hot enough to act up. I drove it in tight circles in a parking lot trouble free. It's after I bought it and really ran it where the problems began. I'm gonna change out my VC as I'm convinced that what it is. I've had many Jeep Cj's and I know what they do in 4wd on dry pavement, just what the GC is doing.
Let us know how you make out.
Good Luck
BD
BD


This afternoon I ran it at 70 on the interstate with the AC on full blast and over a mountain to boot. When I pulled into a parking lot and made a POINT of pulling into a tight space requiring a sharp turn, it was totally quiet and nothing happened. :banghead:

On the way home I was on interstate part of the way, then on some country roads which included steep hills. I made one stop at my uncle's house for about 10 minutes, then was on regular roads to my mom's where I left it running in her driveway for several minutes. FINALLY as I was leaving there, I turned sharper than I needed to--first left and then right, backwards and forwards, and there was just a *slight* amount of knocking and binding--nothing like what I experienced the first time that this happened.

If ANY knocking and binding is abnormal, then I suppose it's still something that the dealer needs to be made aware of. I think the limited warranty just covers transmission and engine--so does this fit?

Also, I'm going to call the local Jeep dealership to talk about the recalls on this that haven't been repaired.

But I honestly don't know if I can *make* this act up on cue, though I'll certainly run it pretty hard before I take it in for them to see. I've wondered, too, if the fact that it wasn't run for about a week (while it was on the lot at the dealer's) had anything to do with the big, bad reaction I had the first day that I did a lot of running around in it?

When you say you're going to change out your VC, are you going to put the same type back in?


But aside, from all this, my god is it fun to drive! :rofl:

The hotter it is the worse it'll act up. As far as your warranty goes, read the fine print. Yes you would replace it with a new one. If it gets bad you'll have no choice but to fix it or you'll hate your new ride

I don't think there's a time limit on the recalls. The dealer can provide a VIP Summary report from which I believe any open recalls would show up.

I had recall # B02 floor shifter secondary detent system done 7-04, and it had been issued 9-02.

#733 brake pedal shift interlock was done 7-04 and was issued 9-97.

Seems like there was a third one done early in the life of this GC.

Finally got around to getting 'em done. My daughter now drives the GC to school, so I wanted to keep it up to snuff. Hang in there with your situation. The GC is a fine vehicle. We're right at 180K with ours, and have not spent anything more than for routine maintance, except to replace the exhaust manifold (totally a jeep engineering goof up which I understood plagued the '93 (?) to '98 models). Otherwise a great vehicle.

Good luck

Sounds to me like there is a possibility that it is the clutch plates in the limited slip differential.

Mine were slipping and grabbing in tight turns very similar to what you describe.

I changed the oil and put in 4 ounces (half bottle) of the limited slip additive from chrysler. The symptoms totally changed and no longer slip and grab to the same extent.

I imagine that the whole bottle would do away with it entirely.

This would be worth a try as the additive costs less than $10. Just give it a while to work its way in (5-7 hundred miles).

Jd

Sounds to me like there is a possibility that it is the clutch plates in the limited slip differential.

Mine were slipping and grabbing in tight turns very similar to what you describe.

I changed the oil and put in 4 ounces (half bottle) of the limited slip additive from chrysler. The symptoms totally changed and no longer slip and grab to the same extent.

I imagine that the whole bottle would do away with it entirely.

This would be worth a try as the additive costs less than $10. Just give it a while to work its way in (5-7 hundred miles).

Jd

Worth a shot. Where do you get the additive since it's a Chrysler product?

You get the additive from Jeep- You can also get additive from Napa or other auto stores- Just ask for a limited slip additive (friction modifier). Becareful, I know there is a friction modifier ( I think it is called Trans-X) that states to not use on Jeeps with quadradrive or quadratrac.

Sorry I didn't include where to get it.

I got mine from Chrysler/jeep dealer.

JD

Sharon, as Jam 454 and others stated, drive it till it's hot.(Dry conditions) Then try to pull into a tight parking spot. You'll feel and hear binding noises. This is the time to show the sellers. It's a powertrain warrenty issue. My mistake when I test drove mine was I didn't get it hot enough to act up. I drove it in tight circles in a parking lot trouble free. It's after I bought it and really ran it where the problems began. I'm gonna change out my VC as I'm convinced that what it is. I've had many Jeep Cj's and I know what they do in 4wd on dry pavement, just what the GC is doing.
Let us know how you make out.
Good Luck
BD
BD

Thanks, Bill! I have an appointment on Wednesday to take it to the local Jeep dealership to see what recall work needs to be done. (Looks like there are two, based on entering my VIN on the Jeep website owners section.) If they have the parts, they'll fix it then, if not I'll have to take it back.

I plan to take my time getting there on Wednesday (driving a lot first) so that maybe, JUST maybe, I can get it to knock so that a mechanic can hear it. If I try to pursue the warranty issue, I know the place I bought it from will require a couple of estimates, but it certainly wouldn't hurt to start there....

Didn't drive it much today but it was flawless.

Sharon,

I checked out the site you recommended in my post about recalls and service bulletins. I also did a search for service bulletins through Google. Go to http://home.sc.rr.com/janet/. Look at bulletin no. 05-09-96 about brake noise. It's general brake sounds but read the part about the ABS/clunk. Don't know that this will resolve your issue, but another tid bit of info to muddy the waters. :smile:

Sharon,

I checked out the site you recommended in my post about recalls and service bulletins. I also did a search for service bulletins through Google. Go to http://home.sc.rr.com/janet/. Look at bulletin no. 05-09-96 about brake noise. It's general brake sounds but read the part about the ABS/clunk. Don't know that this will resolve your issue, but another tid bit of info to muddy the waters. :smile:

Interesting.... The other day when I was backing out of my driveway, I heard/felt something like this, though just for a second. At least (according to this bulletin) this seems to be kind of a NORMAL thing, but if amplified a bunch, it was a similar sound to the BIG clunks from last Wednesday....

I'm afraid to ask, but is a ...rattle?... a normal sound when the Jeep is idling? It actually idles quietly (from the inside, with the windows up), but from outside (or with windows down) I've noticed this. Doesn't particularly concern me, and I think I actually saw a post about this....

I see the site is back up and running. It's starting to sound less like a VC from they way you describe it. Someone had suggested pulling the front driveshaft and I would caution against that. I'm not sure what year NP249 transfer case you can do that to whithout damaging the case. I think it's the 93-95 NP249s that don't have a lock-up feature in 4wd. Without this, removing the drive shaft will quickly overheat the VC and cause failure. Let us know what you find out from the shop.
ByronP

Let us know what you find out from the shop.
ByronP

I had what I thought was an "appointment" this morning to have basically an evaluation for the recall work (two issues--something about rotors on the front and the shift detent). I knew there was a possibility that I'd have to bring it back in to have the actual work done, but planned to wait as they checked it out.

The service guy I met with this morning said they were "really busy" and it would probably be around 1:30 before they'd even look at it! This was before 8 AM, the time they'd said to get there! So much for "appointment," huh? He said he could probably line up something for next week.

So.....I called another Jeep service place in another town and they were also busy, but I liked their attitude better. I'll be taking it there (ALSO next week.)

Had to make a tight turn into a parking space this morning and there was no binding at all (and I'd run it pretty good before taking it in, as planned--though talking to a mechanic wasn't even close to being an option...).

So we'll see!

Wow, this is fun. This is better than cable. "As Sharon Turns" Please, keep me posted. I'll set aside my workout AND law and order to keep reading this saga. :)

Wow, this is fun. This is better than cable. "As Sharon Turns" Please, keep me posted. I'll set aside my workout AND law and order to keep reading this saga. :)

Can't say that I'm surprised that this has turned into a "saga"--seems to be the way things have been going recently! OT, but have you, by chance, checked out my adventures in trying to put in a preformed pond?
http://www.art-rageous.net/PreformedPond.html
:bricks1:

my adventures in trying to put in a preformed pond?
http://www.art-rageous.net/PreformedPond.html
:bricks1:
Hey I wanna email you pix of my pond that I built :D

Hey I wanna email you pix of my pond that I built :D

I'd like to see them. I hang out a lot in the forums at gardenweb.com and also at watergardening.com (same username as here). Great pictures, impressive ponds, and apparently most people have had FAR less trouble than I've had trying to do this! :rolleyes:

Ugh, done the pond thing, never again. Never ever ever ever ever ever. GAWD that was the pain in my a$$ but it sure is beautiful and my koi are fun to watch, very peaceful, I enjoy my zen. I even have a random red bellied frog who just appeared in it one day over a year ago and hasn't left yet. I've been told that kind of frog isn't really a local of Southern Cal (duh) so kinda weird. So, back on task, we're talkin' Jeeps here, not Martha Stewart incarcerated...err.....living. What's the verdict on your GC?

Ugh, done the pond thing, never again. Never ever ever ever ever ever. GAWD that was the pain in my a$$ but it sure is beautiful and my koi are fun to watch, very peaceful, I enjoy my zen. I even have a random red bellied frog who just appeared in it one day over a year ago and hasn't left yet. I've been told that kind of frog isn't really a local of Southern Cal (duh) so kinda weird. So, back on task, we're talkin' Jeeps here, not Martha Stewart incarcerated...err.....living. What's the verdict on your GC?

Dunno if you've read the latest chapter of the Saga of the Preformed Pond (www.art-rageous.net/PreformedPond.html), but yeah, I'm having all SORTS of fun. :uhoh:

And for the record, Martha Stewart has ALWAYS given me the creeps. One commercial she did a few years ago was REALLY bizarre--what that woman wouldn't do to sell sheets!

But yes, back to the Jeep, lol! As it stands now, I'm waiting to get a call from a Jeep dealership. They were going to order what they needed for the undone recalls and then call to set up an appointment. I hope that'll happen early this week because I'll be back in school (crazy, crazy hours) next week.

Yesterday it did some of the binding/clunking again, though still not as bad as the first time. When I take it in for the recalls I'm going to get them to check all fluid levels (especially differential, since that seems to be showing up in some posts) and talk with them about the possibility of the VC problem. Also, something rattles like crazy when I'm idling. Not sure what's up with that, but my older son who was riding with me last night said that I might want to make sure that nothing important is getting ready to drop off in the road!

Just stage an insurance fire and buy my 98 GC Limited. It's flawless!

Even Martha would approve of it! ;)

By the way, the preformed pond story is wonderful. I loved reading it. Someday when we have time, I'll have to write the story of hanging my plasma screen TV and after finding the perfect place for it and re arranging the entire living room, we cut into the wall to mount the bracket and there was a random natural gas line RIGHT where the TV was to go. <shakes head> unbelievable.

Hey Chad
Was that for the insurance?????????????????

JD-
Was what for the insurance? <Kinda lost here>

the gas lin thing

No, I assume it was for..uhm, natural gas. <looks around>. I don't mean to sound like an ass, but why would an insurance company care about a natural gas line in my house?

boom

Well, my stove/oven and furnace need the natural gas to operate, so that's how they ran the gas to them I guess. Anyhoo, in conclusion, I had a contractor relocate the gas line so I can happily watch my TV where it was intended to be. :)

By the way, the preformed pond story is wonderful. I loved reading it. Someday when we have time, I'll have to write the story of hanging my plasma screen TV and after finding the perfect place for it and re arranging the entire living room, we cut into the wall to mount the bracket and there was a random natural gas line RIGHT where the TV was to go. <shakes head> unbelievable.

LOL!! (I'll probably be adding "chapters" until I run out of time to work on it and/or post about it.)

Yep, unbelievable about the TV. Isn't it amazing when stuff just goes wrong and then wrong-er? Years back I dealt with another series and felt I was being cursed by the water gods--washing machine & hot water heater died, sandwiched inbetween 2 leaks in the water line coming into the house. But just realized something...in December 2003 (Christmas Eve day, btw) my water line coming into THIS house (different one) broke and 2 months later my hot water heater died. Perhaps the "pond gods" are the "water gods" in disguise! :lol:

Maybe you outta stick to projects requiring concrete and masonry and not water. Just an idea. ;)

Maybe you outta stick to projects requiring concrete and masonry and not water. Just an idea. ;)

Oh, been there, done that too. Last big project around here was putting up drywall in my basement. Turned out pretty nice (much better than the dark, cheap paneling that was down there). Still haven't finished framing in around the windows but I'm not sure when that will happen.

Well, the Jeep goes to the shop next Wednesday (sure wish it could have happened this week, given that I'll be back in school next week) for the recall work. I also asked them to check all the fluid levels, explained about the noise that may be due to the VC and asked them to see if any bulbs are burned out on the rear lights. (I could probably have done that part myself, but since time is as much of an issue now as $$$, figured I'd get them to check.)

I'll let you know what they find out.

Good luck on all that with your GC. Mine has been an absolute dream, 6 years and 110,000 miles and haven't ever done anything besides the routine maintenance. (Now that I just lauded my GC, I'll probably drop my tranny tonight!) Keep me posted!