if any of you have kept up with my posts, yeah, i've asked about puttin an H22a in a 97 civic, building an all motor D16y8...well in this post i'd like to discuss turboing the D16y8. I'm just trying to compile ideas, feazability, and affordability......(without going nitrous....i was raised on detroit muscle and don't beleive in the bottle....unless you are running big turbo and you use it to spool up then turbo.....and then...) Well. What would make a good streetable turbo combo on a civic....lets say streetable is maintaining about 25 mpg.....or maybe 20. Of course a better rod stroke ratio would be optimal. lower compression pistons. programmable ecu fuel management upgrades, ignition upgrades and such. I would like to be able to blow the socks of most imports in my town.....and be able to hold my own with some of the domestics....camaro's and mustangs who dont have a clue....

What was your question??? I read your whole post and saw no question. Myabe my eyes are sore!!!
:eek: :eek: :eek:

- Phat_Si

Originally posted by white97ex
What would make a good streetable turbo combo on a civic....lets say streetable is maintaining about 25 mpg.....or maybe 20.

thats his question. sorry i dont really know the answer. i know that greddy turbos are reliable tho. i also have a civic ex but i am thinking of later swapping it with an ls engine and getting turbo but that is wayyyy down the road

well the question wasn't really about getting mpg....just turbo-ing a D16y8. I plan on buying a motor...mine has 110,000 and counting...i would rather start with somethign fresher...and building it for turbo.... was just looking for some ideas....i was, at one time looking into the rev-hard stage 2 kit

I say make your own custom kit. You can get a std manifold or one from an hf and port it out for better flow, then get a turbo an adapter plate, intercooler, fuel management stuff, BOV, piping, oil and coolant lines and you should be straight!!! Pretty cheap! HIH

- Phat_Si

would it be as reliable as a kit? of course reliability probably depends A LOT on how you prep the engine.....does anyone make connecting rods that change the r/s ratio on the D16's? my plan is to pick up a D16y8 and build it..then drop it in....as i said my car is pushin 110,000 and beyond. i put almost 1000 a week on my car if not more...so i dont want to trust the original motor. anyone got any ideas on numbers as far as hp at the crank whp that can be acheived on a streetable, reliable turbo'd civic?

Originally posted by white97ex
well the question wasn't really about getting mpg....just turbo-ing a D16y8. I plan on buying a motor...mine has 110,000 and counting...i would rather start with somethign fresher...and building it for turbo.... was just looking for some ideas....i was, at one time looking into the rev-hard stage 2 kit

Why a D16y8? If you're getting a new motor anyways, and you want to go turbo, you may want to look into a B18B1. The cost isn't that much more and it's a much better platform to start on. Not only that, but it's a relatively easy drop in, unlike the H22 you named before, and gives you more displacement than the D16 as well as DOHC. On top of that, there's a bunch of turbo kits out for B-series motors already that makes the job much easier than having to custom fit parts to your motor. Just a thought. I know you wanted to know about turboing a D16y8, but, if you're replacing the motor anyways, why not upgrade while you're at it for a cost difference that's negligible. I think you would really be pleased going that route.

The cost difference may be negligible to some people. how much does a b18 run.......they must be over 1500 right.......i think that is the cheapest you can get a b16 for. I also just like to be different.

Originally posted by white97ex
The cost difference may be negligible to some people. how much does a b18 run.......they must be over 1500 right.......i think that is the cheapest you can get a b16 for. I also just like to be different.

WHOA.....I thought we were talking about a D16y8 here, where did B16 come from? A B18b can be had relatively cheap. I'm confident that you can find a used one, with clean title, in good condition, for under $1500. The B18b is one of those motors that most people really don't care for and their lack of popularity usually puts them at a discount price. I can definitely respect that you want to go a different route, but you'll end up spending more money in the longrun trying to squeeze power out of the smaller SOHC engine than starting with the larger one, even if you put boost on it. You're always better off starting off with more displacement. If you really want to get unconventional, and still get a cheap motor, you may also want to consider dropping in a B20a and boosting that. Unusual, torque loaded, and quick...

i was using the b16 as a comparison. didn't b18 come out of integra's? sorry my import motor intelligence is still building.. i was raised on detroit muscle. what are the specs on the b18b? I am open to suggestions. this wont be happening for a while i am just compiling info and trying to gain knowledge. as or the b20....i dont like the idea of the whole frankenstein trend

Originally posted by white97ex
i was using the b16 as a comparison. didn't b18 come out of integra's? sorry my import motor intelligence is still building.. i was raised on detroit muscle. what are the specs on the b18b? I am open to suggestions. this wont be happening for a while i am just compiling info and trying to gain knowledge. as or the b20....i dont like the idea of the whole frankenstein trend

That's cool. It's kinda funny, you're getting out of the Detroit muscle and into small imports, and I'm over here thinking about moving up to a Corvette Z06 with a Vortech centrifugal supercharger. Ironic...

Anyways, you're 100% absolutely correct. The B18B1 is the less popular of the Integra motors. It's a 1.8 litre DOHC non-VTEC motor that can be had relatively cheap. Usually less than $1500 used, from my understanding, and is a solid reliable motor capable of supporting up to 350 hp on the stock block. The B16A2 is the 1.6 litre DOHC VTEC motor out of the Civic Si. Awesome motor! The B20A is the 2.0 litre DOHC non-VTEC motor out of the Honda CRV, yet another unpopular motor that can be had for a relatively low cost. Many people swap in a B16A2. The B18B1 and B20A are torqier motors with their slight displacement advantage, and both react well to boost. In stock trim, neither one is a frankenstein motor. (I'm not a fan of frankenstein motors either.) Since you are planning on turbo, I chose the B18B and B20A because they have a displacement advantage as well as give you the tuning capabilities of having DOHC. It's just really hard to squeeze power out of a small displacement SOHC, in my opinion.

i'm just sick of not being able to give the guys around here a challenge...my little stock civic just don't impress much. I was thinking about getting an old muscle car. chevy II nova or something and putting a 383 stroker motor in it. talk about some speed...well the b-20 is the better of the 2 for turbo-ing because it has a more optimal r/s ratio. the b18 has a 1.54 which is the same as the d16y8. is there much of an advantage of v-tec other than fuel economy. I am still learning and understanding it. if not i might go with a b18 or b20. the b-20 is the torquier of the two. which would be better. I want the kick in the pants acceleration with good top end. i want to be able to sprint to 120 instead of having to wait for it. i take it that the b18 is what they call the ls/vtec when you put a v-tec head on it? keep in mind i would still like to get good gas milage, again i put 1000 miles or more on my car a week. anyone have some links to where i can get prices on motors? I would also want the integra gear box. manual of course... once you go stick you never go back..hehehhee.....im so glad i learned its so much fun. i guess i'll cut it off there

my goal is to spank some v-8's with a litle 4-banger...:flipa:

Originally posted by white97ex
my goal is to spank some v-8's with a litle 4-banger...:flipa:

DEFINITELY DO-ABLE WITH THE POWER OF BOOST!! :D I've surprised people before with my little Integra...










(DISCLAIMER: Just make sure you stay away from my Z06 with the Vortech centrifugal when I get it. The Z06 runs a 12.4 second pass STOCK. It's scary to think what it will run boosted.)

Originally posted by white97ex
my goal is to spank some v-8's with a litle 4-banger...:flipa:

What kinda times and power are you looking at putting out?

i'm not real sure...im a big numbers kind of guy....but i am, at heart a detroit muscle kind of guy as well. and these little 4 bangers can't handle hte same kind of power a small block v-8 can. i initially wanted to swap in an H22a. so i guess i'm lookin for 200 plus..and still be streetable. what is a safe amaount of boost the b18b can handle on stock internals? of course. i will have a system right now i have 2 kenwood 10's (to be installed) and im not sure if i'm gonna sell them and go for some bigger audiobahns or not. gonna bump wheel size up to 16's with some low pro tires so i can upgrade to bigger breaks.......neouser. are you getting the 2002? if so that thing starts out with 405 HP the z06 is an awesome choice. i fell in love with it first time i saw one. I wish i had the money to get one. i'd definately ditch my civic in no time...hehehehe...lets see. i want to go for a b18b rev hard stage 2 turbo intercooler and all the goodies...as well as a hondata ecu upgrade....

hey phat si, where can you get the turbo adapter plates that fit on your stock or hf manifold. and also do they really stand up to the heat like the aftermarket turbo manifolds

Originally posted by white97ex
neouser. are you getting the 2002? if so that thing starts out with 405 HP the z06 is an awesome choice. i fell in love with it first time i saw one. I wish i had the money to get one. i'd definately ditch my civic in no time...hehehehe...

Yeah, that 2002 or even a newer one when I've got some loose ends, is definitely the firct choice. I can't imagine getting a car for that price that has so much to offer. $50k and it can outperform most of the European and Japanese "exotics". That's crazy...

I don't think you'll be disappointed with a boosted Civic either, though. Any car + boost = a lot of fun.

Originally posted by sohcvtecrx
hey phat si, where can you get the turbo adapter plates that fit on your stock or hf manifold. and also do they really stand up to the heat like the aftermarket turbo manifolds

They stand up pretty well, you can get them from Gary and Randy at:
Their Webpage (Http://thenew.gamesbbs.com/~turbosi ) , just email them!

- Phat_Si

my friend has the 2002 yellow Z06, that car is sooooooo nice. It is the same one that was at that big auto show in WA a few months ago.

I turbo'd my 99 Civic. Check it. I think it'll answer your questions about cost, ease on installation, and results (the video page).

http://home.satx.rr.com/importvelocity/

i saw you people wanna beat v-8's. that shouldn't be hard to beat some v-8's. all u need is a turbo kit. but for the harder Z06's, and engine swap should be needed for this. my first performance upgrade for me will be a h22a engine swap in my 92-95 civic with a mugen exhaust and a turbo kit w/ a T3/T4 hybrid turbo which comes with the turbo kit

well if $$ is some what of an issue you won't make good power without some sort of forced induction. All motor is great, but requires a lot of borring, or stroking, and a lot of head work such as port and polishing and all that. As far as realiability . . . . anything can be realiable just depends on the builder. I personally think that you should either turbo a LS Motor or just turbo the y8 motor. It's even better to whoop some ass with a SOHC Vtec motor :-p As far as gas goes well . . . when you are not in boost you should still maintain your current gas mileage that you receive now, but once in boost you will eat up more gas ofcourse, so that part is all in how you personally drive.

i wish i still had the honda. it would be paid off and seein some major work. but i totalled it just over a year ago. now i got my s-10.

Hey white97, I was just reading this post and it sounds like you're a little confused about the vtec system. You keep talking about fuel economy like that's what vtec's primary goal is, I think you have it somewhat wrong. A frankenstien motor is one where you slap a vtec head on a b18 or b20, but the main porpose of the head is not neccesarily to gain fuel economy. The Vtec head, usually had from a b16 of some sort, flows much better than the stock head from a b20 and the vtec nets you Power more than it is used for fuel economy. Its probably easier if you know that there are many types of vtec.

The mainstream Vtec that you hear of is a camshaft with 2 grinds on it, the (low) grind is used for everyday driving and of course also so the car will idle nicely. But when Vtec 'engages', it switches over to the other grind witch is much more preformace based, its usually a more "racey" cam, that has duration and higher lift modifications.

Dual (Dohc) Vtec, just what the name implies, a vtec lobe on both the intake and exhaust cams.
"regular" Vtec, generally the mainstream vtec is only applied on the intake cam (or possible the only cam in an sohc motor), maybe becuase it's cheaper? I'm not exactly sure why they aren't all dohc vtec, assuming its a dohc motor...
Vtec-E, this is the fuel economy one, it leaves one of the intake valves with very low lift when you're crusing and not using much power, this saves your fuel economy
I think there is another one, but I can't remember what its called right now, I recall reading about one that used vtec and vtec-e together, tell me if I'm crazy...

I hope that clears things up some, frankenstiens aren't bad...
The b20b and b18 dont have outrageously high HP numbers, the b20b4 I think is 126hp and the b18b is like 130, but especially if you're a domestic guy, you know that 126hp w/100ft-lbs (just an example) is not the same as 126hp w/133ft-lbs (b20b4). Most of the higher horsepower 4bangers are low on the torque side but make up for it by revving high and using vtec. 160hp is impressive for a 1.6L, but when you only have 110ft-lbs it makes you wonder how they got there...

HTH,
Buzz1167
Jon N

it doesnt matter what you do ls vteck turbo or supercharger its still a honda with no power. i know its fun having a little 4banger n actually dusting a bigger better car of the line but at the end its not worth it spending all that money. when you do one thing you have to due the other like your basically rebuilding the hole car! if your add a turbo and run stock boost which is about 6psi, sooner or later your gonna have to rebuild the engine and once u rebuilt the engine than you might be putting to much horse power for ur suspension so thats another upgrade you have to do. like i said before its fun BUT THERE IS NO REPLACEMENT FOR DISPLACEMENT!! even if u do the lsvtk, the compression is to high so you have to spend more money to lower the compression especially if you want to go force induction. the h22 the walls are to thin so u have to sleeve it out and change ur suspension to hold the weight. in my opinion, if you want to spend your money right don't go honda( only if u want to save gas money). i dont give a shit what anybody says but anybody who has own a highly modify honda knows that yes its fun but sooner or later the engine or turbo will give out. the life span on a fully built engine its not worth all the money your spending. save your money an buy a car that has a stock turbo or its a rear wheel drive.


look up ebay n u'll see highly modify honda for sale. why? cause they finally realize that it doesnt matter what you do, a honda its a honda n will NEVER COMPARE TO A REAL SPORTS CAR. i guess some owners saw the light n want to sell their cars to buy a real sports car.

the b18b (integra ls) motor has a 142hp @ 6300 and 127 lbs-ft @ 5200

also you said you where looking in to getting lower compression pistons this isnt something you have to do, lower compression is safer when using a turbo but you make better hp per psi of boost with higher compression

i fully understand vtec and how it works. i understand that it flows better on top end making more power. but the general goal of vtec or any variable valve timing system is to provide low end fuel economy. while still providing a decent power band. if the ex civic didn't have vtec it would not be rated at the 127 horse power. it would be down around the dx's 107. vtec is not the part of the system that provides the fuel economy. it is the stack, lower rpm lobes that provide the fuel economy. it is the vtec lobes which provide the power up top. also something i've learned from visiting www.theoldone.com a good tech site for any honda fanatic. that rpm stands for ruins peoples motors. on a street car. sustaining high rpms is not exactly a good thing. you ultimately would like the power band brought down to a more usable rpm. if you have all the power in the world at 9000 rpm and the guy beside you has 3/4 the power in the world available at 4000. my money is on 4000. his power is in his usable power band. is attained quicker. and his motor isn't going to blow to peices

im not really sure what you are trying to say

i think what your saying is if a car with lets say 1000hp @ 9000 rpm is racing a car with 750 hp @ 4000 rpm that the guy with 750 hp would win becuase he's making his power at a lower rpm

please expain yourself

basically yes. it is nothing guaranteed. it is all about usability of the power band. if you have to wrap your motor to 9k to hit peak power. and the guy beside you only has to hit 4500 he does it in half the time. and will, logically require less power. because he is attaining it faster and is able to stay in his power band for a longer period of time. but we all know that logistics dont necessarily apply to cars. because logically a car with 4 cylinders shouldn't be able to beat a v-8. but they do. it was just kind of a comment. nothing proven. it all relies on so much more than just the placement of the power band.

Yea, you got it right, it's just that - that's the reason that people are advocating you to swap in a different motor, the b18 and b20 both have power in a "usable rpm", to use your words. If you're going to swap the motor anyway, there's really no reason to put back a d16 if you can afford something else and plan to turbo it. Sure you can turbo the crap out of the d16 and win yourself over with horsepower, but the low end "usable" power isn't so easily gained. You will gain some torque with the turbo, of course, but a b18 or b20 in your car would be more enjoyable, I know I would like it more, especially off boost right off the line.
I haven't ever done the d->b series swap, but I hear its A Lot easier than the h22 that you were contemplating, it will end up handling better too. A B18 will have more room for boost than the h22 will also. I hear people talk about turbo'ing their d16's all day but, its still a smaller motor. There's alot of pride that goes into getting tons of HP out of a d16, but its easier to start with something bigger, I think you'd be happier, but do whatever you want, it's your car.

Buzz1167
Jon N

well. i dont have the car anymore. hehe. i totalled it. now i have a s-10. it has the 2.2 litre four cylinder. once it is paid for im gonna swap in a v-8