yo..now that i got my cat removed and a straight threw muffler on my tona...when i slam it to the floor..it gets up to high rpms and it cuts out for a sec..then goes again..i got the 2.5 l and i thought my boost was only suppos to go to 8 psi and a bit of overboost or something..but now my boost goes all teh way up to 12.5/13 ...do you think it is my computer not allowing it to go past the boost limiter?..so it cuts my boost out for a sec..or is it something else...

and could someone plz tell me what happens when detonation occurs..i heard all bout it..duno exactly WHAT it does/is...thx guys..

Jaytona

detonation is a *bang bang* sound that means you are killing your engine. to simplify:

DETONATION = DEATH

also, i wouldn't talk too much about removing your cat, considering that is very illegal. i would, if i were you, look into getting a high-flow cat. if you get stopped for a roadside spot check, and are sans-cat, then you are totally screwed- that's an expensive fine, AND a repair ticket.

just a suggestion ;)

Don't worry about the cat, I've NEVER been inspected. EVER. It sounds like what's happening is your hittng max boost and after the pre-set time limit it's being reduced to lower cylinder temps for a few seconds.Which will help to prevent detonation. I think it's until you let off the gas a bit. It's all normal stuff your logic module is taking care of. As long as you're at WOT the timer doesn't count down to allow "full" boost again though. There are ways of tricking the map sensor to only "see" the 8psi but still run 14-15 all the time but if you don't have the fuel system to compensate for it don't even think about it! The margin for error is very small when tricking components that normally work in harmony with each other.

Ok,
What did you do with the O2 sensor?
I didn't think you did anything. now change it.
Remove the air temp sensor in the intake and replace it with a 100K resistor.
Check your TPS too, along with almost all of the other sensors.
be damn sure your intake air hoses are sealed tightly and that they dont swell or collapse. I recommend replacing then with pipes, but the stupid rubber hoses will work.

You NEED more fuel volume and a reprogrammer kit....!!! Or, drum up an old Direct connection turbo II computer from Carrol Shelby...

Detonation is bad, but fortunately, you don't have a Civic (not fond'a honda) or an eclipse ( e-clips?!! either way you're shafted!!). Never seen a 2.2 or 2.5 die from detonation. I have seen an eclipse die from daytonation (being wasted by a daytona... mine!).

Enough fun for one post...

Slantsixness

LOL dunno about that resistor though, won't it make him run a little more lean? Good for HP bad for detonation... Yeah I ran tons of boost with a secondary 5th injector right on the limit of the green lights and never had a problem with detonation either. The mains ended up giving in first. That and the hydraulic adjusters couldn't keep up. :mad:

Detonation is bad, but fortunately, you don't have a Civic (not fond'a honda) or an eclipse ( e-clips?!! either way you're shafted!!). Never seen a 2.2 or 2.5 die from detonation.

hunh, didn't know that... never got around to FI on any of my dodges so i never had to worry about detonation

whassa mattah slant, been whupped by too many small-displacement H bombs? i love my car, i'll probably drive it to death several times over. i like my dodges too, and even my old ford crap-wagon has some fun parts. no reason to go hatin' on something that beat you just because you can...

after all, bet you don't mock that 'vette that just passed your ass like you're standing still :cwm27:

hmmm...ok..so my problem doesnt sound like detonation cause my engine aint makin a bang bang..so im guessing it would be my map sensor doing its job. a 3 bar map sensor will eliminate this correct...would a stage 2 calibration from fwdperf. eliminate the problem as well?..i plan on gettin an intercooler before turning boost up to 14 or so thou..so...yea

and do you figure my turbo gage is reading wrong when i reach 12.5 psi when i should only be reading 8 or so?..when i got a flow threw exhaust it seemed to have turned up a bit..oh yea..and you were talkin about my cat stuff..not that it would help me if i got pulled over and inspected, but i got flanges on all my pipes so i can remove straight pipe and put on my original cat pretty simple..im off to school..lata

Geeko-

I don't race anymore, certainly not on the street. The point was it's rare to have a 2.2 or 2.5 die from detonation.
You like what you like: I like what I like.
What I like is just faster.

And I've never been passed by a 'vette like I was standing still, unless I WAS standing still.

I'm not in the racing scene/gang/group anymore. I have a wife, daughter and a life, that keeps me from that waste of money. There was a time when I would dispute that to the end of the 1/4, but not anymore. I want to be around for another 40 years... or longer.

Slantsixness

My 2.2 has seen a couple headgaskets but it's otherwise bulletproof. I don't believe you can kill these 4 cylinder Chrysler motors...

As a 2.2/2.5L thread this has become, I've had lots of them. Good motors, BAD carburetors. Fuel injection works well. MPF injection is really good. Turbo version aren't bulletproof, they suffer from chryslers "Turbobyebyetis", where the turbine comes unglued and sends all your oil into your intake, but that can be dealt with if you know when to shut the motor down! (like the moment the white smoke comes out... )
Use intercoolers and VNT's or aftermarket turbos and WOW!

I had an '87 shelby Charger,'90 daytona ES 3.0L, '90 Daytona ES 2.5L (VNT, intercooled and NOT factory), '79 TC3 (originally a VW 1.8L until the 2.2 turbo drivetrain), a Lebaron GTC, about six K-cars, an Omni 4dr (pre GLHS), and two turbo 2.2 Caravns (one was a 5 speed manual!) These were daily driver cars except the shelby and the '90 daytona. Unfortunately all but the second '90 daytona (the VNT) are gone down the road, and my father in law has the daytona now (his GM car died, kind of funny-he had his mid-life crisis and ended up with his son-in-law's last non-family sedan ride!). I'm looking to maybe squish a 3.5L mitsu motor and two VNT turbos (it will fit...)in another Daytona when my wife let's go of my arm...and some dough!

Slantsixness

Geeko-

I don't race anymore, certainly not on the street. The point was it's rare to have a 2.2 or 2.5 die from detonation.
You like what you like: I like what I like.
What I like is just faster.

And I've never been passed by a 'vette like I was standing still, unless I WAS standing still.

I'm not in the racing scene/gang/group anymore. I have a wife, daughter and a life, that keeps me from that waste of money. There was a time when I would dispute that to the end of the 1/4, but not anymore. I want to be around for another 40 years... or longer.

Slantsixness

hey, i'm in agreement- i'm on the front of the hill going up, and don't want to spend the rest of my life in a wheelchair, or worse.
*shrug* i'm probably overreacting- just sick of people either making fun because i've got a honda and it doesn't have a bunch of body kits and crap, or people making fun because i drive a honda and want to increase its performance. i don't race- at all right now, probably not much if i ever do- and not on the road. i like to drive- and i drive hard. i like it when my car reacts to my desires- a complete melding of man and machine (cliché, i know, but true) brings me happiness.
all in all, that's what matters- that you are happy with your ride, and enjoy driving. so run some FI on that teeeeny honda moter, or rev up all 454 cubic inches of that monster under the hood of your charger!

~cheers~

I thought a 454 was a bowtie motor...I get the point though, and agree...

craap... can't believe i did that, my buddy would kill me >.<

okay, the 454 under the Camero hood.

my dream car is a '69 Supersport, cherry red, black ragtop, with a freshly rebuilt 454 under the hood :D i'm a long way away from that with my civic... but who wants to daily drive a 454 with gas at 2 bucks a gallon?

I'm an A-body (dart/duster/swinger) man. Although I've had some B-bodies (charger/GTX/Roadrunner etc) but they didn't do as much "warm fuzzy feelings" as a 12 second A-body. Plus, the A-bodies are easier to park...!
I originally bought into the fact that the Later charger and daytona's were going to give me that "warm Fuzzy feeling" back, but I had a lot to learn about the 2.2 and 2.5 and even a little about the 3.0(dog). So, in the efforts to make one of these newer FWD cars scream, I've wasted 10 to 15 times the amount of money it costs to make a 12 second (ok, 12.49 @ 104mph.. still call it a 12!) street legal car. I was able to beat the average Z28/iroc camaro's and 5.0 mustang's with the FWD cars, which did give me a warm fuzzy, but I have always been disappoointed with the lack of real recognition the FWD cars get, and even the "muscle car" mopar freaks don't give the FWD cars the recognition they deserve.

Sadly, the most interesting thing coming out of the pentastar-benz company now, is either way overpriced (viper), or way underpowered (ptcruiser convertible 2 door).

I'm lucky my wife let's me keep what I have. And she has a camry (although it is a V6....) Her first choice was a honda Accord.....!
So, I'm not immune to working on, and liking the ricers either, but I still don't think they'll ever give me the warm fuzzy's!!

too much time on the soap box!

Later,
Slantsixness

FWD sucks for performance, i'll agree to that. it's just NOT as much fun as RWD (or AWD, for that matter) in a performance vehicle. no matter how fast you accelerate, or how powerful the car is... it just doesn't feel the same. when i had my '90 Dodge ramvan 250 LE (318 baaaby, wooo) it was fun to kick 'lil fart-can's asses on the gravel lots.

handling, of course, was a different matter entirely.

i got the honda through a deal- i didn't choose it, although i can't say i was unhappy with the car that i got. but i think it's my duty as a car-geek to make it as fast as i can :D

this has turned out to be a fairly long thread, that's kind of gotten off the track... did anybody notice that Bowza can't spell Daytona...?

HA!

oh... heh. i thought it was a euphimism- like i've heard them called Gaytonas (typically when they are having problems with a car :D )

what is more interesting is the fact that the title to this thread makes very little sense, unless you are high or very, very drunk :lol:

A guy with a 5.0L Mustang GT awhile ago (summer of'93??) called my '90 VNT a "Gay-tona". I ripped him a new behind in the 1/4.... so maybe that was gay? I didn't try to influence my car's preferences, but it always seemed to keep it's ass out in front of everybody!
(mind you, "everybody" was everybody I raced. I knew well when the car was well out-classed....)

:)

It was amazing how many excuses the guy came up with as to why his ruststang lost...

my name is jay..i drive a daytona..Go Figure how i put Jaytona together

the title, if you had read my initial post, states that my car is cutting out after i reach 13 psi or so at wot..im just wondering if it is my map sensor or whatever regulates my psi doing its job..or is it something else..i found it to make alot of sence..but sorry you couldnt help me at all..and iono how this turned out to be a completely off topic thread..but anyways..cheers

Bowza
You need more fuel, and more air mass. consider a riser plate for the throttle and an adjustable Fuel regulator. maybe a reprogrammer for the computer could help too, but the fuel air ratio is probably what's killing you @ 13psi. There are a LOT of other things tou can do, but it's gonna cost you a LOT of dough to do it.

regardless that we've mooched your original thread, we've all had fun!

Slantsixness

Youre in overboost territory. It shuts off the fuel to prevent destroying the engine.

Overboost,
I'm having visions of the guy who gives you a leg-up and instead vaults you over the horse......hmmmm

overboost.... nah....
More fuel.... Must have more fuel.... Must have larger Air intake volume....

15-17LBS of boost? you'll have a better chance of hurting something. 12-14 is manageable... If it's REALLY 12-14. Bowza's lucky it isn't more like 10.5 realistically. Turbo guages usually just suck.

Ok, so you disagree? Don't be so naive. You just have to know how to control what you do.

Destroy a 2.2/2.5L? Highly unlikely if you did things right.

Stay away from NOS. It's just making YOU too happy.

Slantsixness


And geeko's "mystery ride" sounds like a delivery truck, or a tractor trailer. Hell, maybe its a tour bus!

*notes that Slantsixness says his dodge engine is "indestructable"*

so... if i run 15lbs of boost through it, and a 300 2-stage shot of NO2, and it blows, you do the repairs, right? :p

having a semi to cruise in would rock... actually, i've been looking at a retired greyhound for an RV/car hauler conversion.

my "mystery" ride also gets infinite MPG (of gas)... it's an old-skool Schwinn racing bike ;) good for when the gas hits $2+ per gallon. i'm quitting my job that's 70 miles away, and going to work 1/4 mile from where i live. that's like 200 bucks more a month i have to spend on car parts! :lol:

Im serious we saw it many times in the dealership with faulty wastegates. The engine controller monitors boost at the map sensor and shuts it down to protect the engine. While it cant actually limit boost it can keep it from getting too high by shutting down the engine, so you get a stutter of on and off.

Geeko,
NO NOS NO NO NO.
I said "STAY AWAY FROM NOS, IT's JUST MAKING YOU TOO HAPPY"
In case you didn't know, Nitroous Oxide is "Laughing Gas" from the old days. (it was a Joke)

You got me on the Mystery ride... but I had to guess!

You run NOS in a 2.2 or 2.5L turbo, you will be sorry, unless there's so little you actually use that it's just for show so you can look "cool" with a bottle strapped under the hatch.....

Crash-
How many BMW's have Chrysler 2.5L turbos?
There are several aftermarket proceedures, hints and kinks that chrysler and Carroll Shelby still don't know.
So, you're an automotive technician.... and maybe you used to work for Chrysler...? Point is, if one of my turbo cars had ever been back to a "dealer", they would have said my computer was missing (what was that big yellow box...?, that I voided my warranty when I put that turbo on there, and that there was far to much polished aluminum under the hood.

While the wastegate Stutter is a common problem, you can set up the 2.2/2.5's and their respective turbos (and aftermarket ones) to perform fantastically, beyond the so called "overboost" or "default limits".
You think Chrysler made a factory setup perform at it's optimal limits?


everybody else,
I have spent many years, and many seasons with about 12 different chrysler FWD turbo cars. The Daytona/Lebaron is the best overall performer for handling (when modified) and consistent performance.
Now, it's 2004, the 2.0 is a POS, the neon makes me want to gag.
But that's not t he reason I DON'T do this anymore.
I have a wife, a wonderful daughter, a life and a great job. No time for turbo cars, and the huge amounts of money spent on them.
I'm lucky I get to spend time on my Dart GTS clone, which, for you people interested in old muscle, I hate to disappoint you, but it's a slant six (well, the short block is), and not a 383....
But why is there fuel injection, a big blue box, two throttle plates and two big round things in the exhaust, and what are the two extra "radiators" for...?
I'll tell you in about two years when the suspension and body are finished. By the way, it's street legal, too.

Slantsixness
(Old School with new tricks)

Geeko,
NO NOS NO NO NO.
I said "STAY AWAY FROM NOS, IT's JUST MAKING YOU TOO HAPPY"
In case you didn't know, Nitroous Oxide is "Laughing Gas" from the old days. (it was a Joke)

You got me on the Mystery ride... but I had to guess!

You run NOS in a 2.2 or 2.5L turbo, you will be sorry, unless there's so little you actually use that it's just for show so you can look "cool" with a bottle strapped under the hatch.....

well... my only dodgemobile is a 4D, not a hatch... and you DID know i was kidding, right? NOS is fun... but only for a quater-mile at a time... i go for lasting power ;)

"There is no old school, there is no new school... there is only car school, and schooling wannabe's"

Sorry 'bout the "hatch" thing. This did start as a daytona thread..... jaytona actually.....

I did know you were kidding.... but there are scary people out here that might think you weren't......

How did your 2.5L end up a being a Mitsu engine.....???

Sorry 'bout the "hatch" thing. This did start as a daytona thread..... jaytona actually.....

I did know you were kidding.... but there are scary people out here that might think you weren't......

How did your 2.5L end up a being a Mitsu engine.....???

the 3L v6 model had an admitted mitsu engine in it, and afaik the engine in the 2.5 is mitsu in design & fittment, and (maybe) dodge in manufacture. mitsu and dodge have been sleeping together since the early 90's, and have ended up with some serious bastard offspring :D

Okay, so I'm assuming you have a stock Mitsu turbo. If you do then that's your problem. With the stock T1 turbo you can't open up the exhaust without getting some boost creep, which is probably what's happening to you. If you want to fix it you can either switch to a Garrett turbo out of a TII, or you can put some sort of restriction in the exhaust. If that still dosen't do it then go to turbododge.com and browse through there for a wile. You should find what you need pretty quick over there.

my name is jay..i drive a daytona..Go Figure how i put Jaytona together

the title, if you had read my initial post, states that my car is cutting out after i reach 13 psi or so at wot..im just wondering if it is my map sensor or whatever regulates my psi doing its job..or is it something else..i found it to make alot of sence..but sorry you couldnt help me at all..and iono how this turned out to be a completely off topic thread..but anyways..cheers
wastegate is not working properly. fix it.

2.5 and 2.2 are NOT mitsubshi motors. 3.0 V6 IS mitsu. :disappoin

Garrett's are great! But there are better..... :evillol:

Your wastegate is not the problem. :nono:

I'll shut up now. :)

Slantsixness

well... crap.

what about the 2.3 in the R/T?

yes, i WOULD kill for one of those. even just then engine & tranny. :naughty:

2.5 and 2.2 are NOT mitsubshi motors. 3.0 V6 IS mitsu. :disappoin

It's still a 2.2 in an R/T, just a twin cam and tons more power*

Yes i was dealership mech. still am. and the factory limit in the engine controller was conservative. point is he may still be running the factory controller with its limit on boost. to get around it you need either a different controller or modified controller. and BMW cars dont need turbos to make big power.

It's still a 2.2 in an R/T, just a twin cam and tons more power*

not *just* a twin cam... the head was designed by Lotus... who is fcsking the shite at this stuff.

site about the R/T: allpar (http://www.allpar.com/model/spiritrt.html)

uuuuuhhhh... yeah baby i'll take one :naughty:

Any body ever seen a Phantom? (mexican R/T (2.2L 16V))

224 BHP for the Spirit R/T was conservative. if you use a 2.5L block and a turbo III cam and a little computer hacking..... hmmm... dyno stuck at 275 BHP @ 3650 RPM... how'd that happen....?
You don't want to know how much it cost!

But it'll blow your mind.
Unfortunately, It blew up, eventually. Now it sits on my garage floor waiting for another $3K rebuild. how sad. I wasn't even driving it.
Freinds don't let freinds drive 275 Hp turbo cars....

I was waiting for someone here to find out about the 16V head...

There are amazing things the can happen with these little FWD cars.... if people would give them the chance... I know I'm not the only one who ever squeezed 275Hp out of a couple 2.2's and 2.5's. I know, I was beaten many times by people who had a whole lot more than me to spend, although I would say I spent a whole lot of time and money trying to catch up to them!

I'll say again, at the present time I have no desire to race (on or off track) anymore. I want to see my kid(s) grow up and go to college, which costs too damn much these days...:)

Slantsixness
Ever seen a twin turbo 24valve fuel injected slant six?
You will.

There was a guy on Moparts.org that hopped up his 225. Now it's awesome.

My buddy's Eagle Talon is wicked fast. It has a bigger turbo than stock on the 2.0, along with the all wheel drive and everything, it's just about invincible in the wintertime. He still has this car, but he drives his 1996 GT Mustang all the time. I give him crap about it all the time, how that Talon would still smoke this Mustang all day, but he won't let me race the Talon against his Mustang. I'm sure the Talon would waste it. It's so fast.

hint hint, Eagle Talon == Mitsubishi Eclipse.

and the AWD model did, indeed, kick ass.

hint hint, Mitsubishi Eclipse == Eagle Talon.

My buddy has a Talon, I know they're just like the Eclipses. I don't get what you mean here.

I've never liked the DSM cars, except the Starion/Conquest, which were pretty cool, but not quick enough and RWD.

I agree they can be pretty darn fast, but I just don't like the way they look. I don't care what badge they're wearing either. they're kind of like honda's and Acura's. Just something I have never liked....

We got off the subject again.

so what :)

subject? there was a subject here?

My buddy has a Talon, I know they're just like the Eclipses. I don't get what you mean here.

most import manufacturers excel at boosting the living hell out of a small-displacement engine. doesn't mean that domestics can't either, but that there would be the source of the talon's "kickass-ness". not that it makes it any less fun to drive ;)

I thought this was all about Jay's fuel starved, computer robbed daytona....?


Kicka$$ness?
Slantsixness!

I wonder if he solved his problem..?

Geeko- I wasn't underminding the R/T's powerplant just noting that even with a twin cam head ( whether lotus OR maserati) it's still a 2.2 not a 2.3. I wish I had the damn thing to start with in my Z. Would've been a more powerful base for the billions I've spent, than the T2 I have. I can't complain though, I am pushing over 400hp and 380ft/lb to the wheels. Oh BTW it IS streetable and pretty reliable too! (No more replacing head gaskets every couple months :banghead: ) Lots of time and trick work to get me there though.

naw man, 's cool, 's cool. just as long as she goes fast, that's all that matters ;)

yeah... hey jay, you fix your car or what, man? not that we're going to un-hijack this thread or anything, but seriously, you get that problem fixed?

Hmmmm....

A T2 at 400HP...
A 2.2 twin cam motor....
hmmm.....

A VNT with a twin cam and 2.5L block, oh yeah that's right, a 2.5L.

It's zippy I tell you, zippy.... and then it got on a dyno.... hmmm..... having problems with that 400 HP mark from daytonaT2....
but hell, it's been six years since I've done any imporvements. What sux is that it's sitting on the garage floor, with a narcoleptic 2.5L in the daytona so it runs for my father in law, but there the damn burnt out bitch sits.... two wiped cams, bad followers, and possibly an unrepairable crack in an unreplaceable head. More or less, I'm just F$%^ed. My wife wants me to scrap it, since the car runs fine with the NA 2.5L, (but I left a T2 MPI on it anyway... just no turbo..)
sometimes I miss this sh!T. I'll probably scrap the motor here soon, which after about $4K of work is a damn shame that my freind blew it up. (Jeff, if you read this, you're still not off the hook...even after 5 years..)

Oh well,
DaYtOnAt2 (or however you spell that..)
How'd you come up with 400 HP? I don't care about the torque, really, I'm not trying to launch the F$$%er into outerspace like the original TV commercial said in '90,(boy that was dorky, anybody ever see that?)
Just curious,

Slantsixness
(Now, the slant six in the GT is another story altogether...)

It all started about 4 years ago when the lifters failed... Honestly the list of shit I've done is as long as I am tall, and I'd probably still overlook some stuff. These numbers are NOT attainable with simple bolt ons...well maybe for a few runs but not reliably. Put it this way, no bolt was left unturned. I'm currently using a reprogrammed ecu from fwd and still bleeding past their "preset" boost cutout of 18. With two seperate secondary injectors, I see 24-25psi in high boost setting on a regular basis. It does run a bit rich at idle and off boost due to 52# primaries but you know, "sacrifices" my friend. A custom T3/T4 makes it all happen from around 3200-7000. The .70ar compressor housing causes the lag but when you shift to second your not already halfway through the useable power anymore.Forged wiseco's and custom billet rods along with the stock forged crank keep it all together in the bottom. While the deck is o-ringed for the insane pressures. The head is the fourth one I've ported and polished myself (just to try new approaches not because anything was wrong with the others). A taft S5 profile regrind seems to do the trick but believe it or not i'm thinking of trying a stock roller T2 this year with the current head config. and maybe softer valve springs. It seems like I'm losing the boost through the exhaust valves at low rpm's. (The overlap is 48 deg.)No big deal though. My current setup does not "feel" as powerful as the previous but the power is more flat rather than spikey. This thing has no problem smoking centerforces DF cluthes in a few months or so. I've seen these things make over 500 with only a few different things here and there. Bigger IC and dual BOV's for safety, and most likely stand alone management. I dunno, I'm really not interested in redoing this all over again. After about the second year of having parts made rather than buying off the shelf, it becomes more annoying than anything else. I originally was shooting for a low 12 high 11sec car without completely stripping it and without having to make the suspension undriveable on the street. I think I'm there, and when I get back from vacation in florida in a few weeks I'll be off to the track to see. BTW I don't recall dodge using the 2.5 with DOHC in anything. I guess I didn't get the point to what you were getting at there.

I did the 2.5L and the DOHC 2.2L motor merge. Suprizingly, your block sounds pretty close to mine, except I had to have a custom crank forged at a local shop. My daytona did hit 12.49 once, but usually it was tuck in the 13's, which is bad enough to scare the camaro/mustang RWD crowds. Centerforce clutches do that to you , too? I went to the automatic 3 speed and, regardless of their poor reliability, it rocked out the 12.49 with it.
I let a freind run it several times, when I was out TDY one season, and after about (he said)10 runs, he wasted the cams and I think cracked the head, where I can't fix it.

When I put it together, there weren't a lot of options for cams and followers, especially for the Lotus head, so they were custom ground, too. I don't have the specs in my head, but I was fresh out of college when I built it and I had a mech engineer/mopar buff freind do the math (i'm an EE). I never got the thing to do well with boost higher than 16-20 psi, but it was "spikey" as hell. max power was around 6300, and It's been to 8000 several times without turning the bearings into steel wool! (but I don't recommend this!)
The bottom end is still good, and it still ran when I took it out of the car, but compression is way off in #2 (63#) and the cams I know are lunched, after I thought that was the problem. Even after it took a crap, it still pulled a 14.40, with the half dead cyl!
But that's been 6 years ago.
I did all the intake modifications, turbo and electronic managements. I built my "own" computer from a bastardized SMEC and a couple FPGA's (programmable Gate array Ic's) I still use the computer programmer design for my present cars, but I haven't attacked the Durango yet, besides, my brother's gonna buy it anyway!

If you read through the rest of this, you already know that My father-in-law has the daytonanow, with an MPI 2.5L in it (T3 intake) with no turbo. The turbo and the spare turbo are slated for the Slant six Dart project. I find the older cars more fun, although considerably heavier, they're "nostalgic" and so's the slant. I never have liked having somethng everybody else had! Even if it doesn't turn out that fast, it sure makes people wonder what the hell is in there that looks like that.

Slant, it might be time to find new friends. If one of my buddy's did that to me I'd make them buy me a new motor. Were you guys drunk or what?

that really sucks, slant... yet another reason why i'm nervous about my friends driving my cars. everyone wants to drive my car, but it's like letting someone hold your newborn baby- "okay, you've held her, NOW GIVE HER BACK!" :D

To make a long story short, I didn't forgive Jeff for toasting the motor, but he did help me build it, and I got sent to Germany for Gov't business for 6 mo's, and I had already registered the car for the season, so I trusted him. He did quite well with the car until it toasted. It's not like we can find another head and get new parts ground for it, so I just went back to a straight 2.5L with a T2 head and intake. Deleting the turbo was my choice, since my Father in law needed a bulletproof car to commute with.
Of course, I got over all this almost 5 years ago! At the time it blew, I had a 3.0 daytona (An IROC) that I was considering converting to a twin turbo, but I sold it to buy a new minivan..(can't fit anybody in those back seats!)
I went on with the twin-turbo/ DOHC slant six/ dart GT project, which to me, is more interesting now, but I don't get a lot of time to work on it lately.

As for my buddy Jeff, he moved to Orlando FL with his wife, so he's a long way away, and he's fooling with old Datsun Z cars now, (guess he likes rust!) :)
I see him about twice a year, when I go down there, and when he comes up here.
inevitably, we'll end up in my garage and he'll apologize again for the dust covered 2.5 under the workbench!

slant- have you checked with the local machine shops? Sometimes they can get things you wouldn't think they'd be able to, like that head that's creamed. BTW If you're aware of the 2.2's potential why did you question mine? There's really no point to me trying to BS you. Good luck with the slant motor though, from what I've heard the bottom end is bullet proof on those things out of the box. And you're considering a TT setup? I must know more... :evillol:

the twin setup is functional, and this is the second time I've done it, although the first time I'll be using the DOHC head, to give you a small hint, the spark plugs are in the center of the chamber....:)

Nonetheless, the twin setup is done with the 3.0 twin turbo setup, injection and basic computer from a VR3000GT. But, making this all work on a slant six is no small task.
Custom manifolds (4 of them), custom head (aluminum!),custom ground cams,forged crank, custom pistons and rods, enlarged oil passages (and two turbo oilers) and a host of other necessities.
With some luck, and a little help from my freinds, the thing should rock.
It is mated to a 904 automatic, although I'm not sure it'll stay that way...

It's not a real high compression motor, nor do I plan to take it to it's limits every saturday night.
I'm planning to leave the A/C on the Dart, too.

I know I could find a shop to "fix" the 2.5L, and I don't know whether the head can be "fixed".At one time, I thought it would be cute to throw it in the Dart, with a dakota trans, but sanity won out!

Presently I dont have a car to use the 2.5L in, and when I get the Daytona back from my father in law, if ever (he could wreck it) I'll consider putting it back together again, but right now there's no room with the Dart in the garage for another project! Lucky for me, my wife doesn't know it's a whole motor, that's why it's hidden under the bench, and considered "Dart Parts", or she'd have my a$$! ( i promised her I wouldn't put the Daytona back together as a hot rod, for her dad to drive!)

Slantsixness

Back to the original question::

Jay, Your car is hitting overboost. As was said before, if you have an '89 or newer TI 2.5 liter engine, it has a tiny mitsubishi turbo on it. (Don't believe me? rip off your airbox and look!) You do have a wastegate problem. The problem is that the valve inside it isn't big enough to control the boost on that motor/turbo combination with opened up exhaust. Mine creeps with a hi-flow cat and full 2.5" system.

Also as was said before, pay a visit to turbododge.com there is a wealth of knowledge there.

I use the mitsu turbo as a doorstop in my garage.

Come to think of it, it's probably still good, too. (not that it ever was "good"....)

That's the future job of my mitsu, too. Or maybe I'll find a second one and TT my ranger....

Have a garrett ready for a rebuild....

I have a SBC for a doorstop.

I have a SBC for a doorstop.

ROTFLMAO!!! :lol2: :lol:

I'm not kidding.

SVT-I have my old t2 garrett if you need a second for your "TT ranger". Lemme know. It's still in good shape, but could use a freshening. No leaks that I'm aware of(wasn't smoking). And has only very minimal shaft play. O2 housing is removed (2.25" :frown: )but you can have that too if you need it.

I just had to keep this ridiculously long thread going. :)

no, really... that's all I wanted to say. :)

haha yea im back..like i said.(maybe i said)..i was going to start doing things to my car once i get money..now that im workin in teh summer..its going to start happening(i hope)..its not like i NEEDED to fix the overboost just yet..it only happens when i get past 120km..and those are only when i feel heavy footed..i honestly dont even no what a wastegate is..so i wouldnt no how to fix that in the first place..im gonna start lookin for a t2 intercooler/radiator combo(anyone got for sale?)..cause im guessing thats still the easiest install compared to other IC's?..then get a fwdperf ecu..bigger injectors..(804 or the 20% ones..i have no clue?)..and then rely on your guys feedback to tell me what i need to make me kill rice without breakin anythin...thx

If you have a normal muscle car you'll be able to kill rice without breaking anything, except their pride.

My stock t2 IC/rad is up for grabs. (87 Daytona Shelby) I've got all IC tubing (plastic O.E. stuff) air box and fan too if needed. K&N in the air box goes with it & is still in good shape, needs cleaned though. Haven't used this stuff since the old setup about four years ago, and everything was in good working order and should still be. Lemme know when you're ready and I figure you a price...

If you have a normal muscle car you'll be able to kill rice without breaking anything, except their pride.

rice, hell yes, bitch-slap those stupid chrome muffler tips and "snake eyes" washer tips right off of them.

a good sport compact, though, you'll have to work at. but if you don't live on the west coast, or in new york/chicago/LA, you probably don't have to worry too much about these guys, as most people you see will fit nicely into the "rice crap" category :loser:

geeko,
an HTX-252? you got a license for that?

I do...

geeko,
an HTX-252? you got a license for that?

I do...

most definitly, i don't think i'd like a 30-thousand-dollar fine, and 2 years in prison (or more, can't remember) :eek:

always fun to find another operator out here on the net ;)

been a ham for 24 years. Had to give up the license and let it expire (lived overseas '75-'78) then came back to the U.S. and got a different call in '79.

I've got mostly Yaesu and Kenwood radios with two Icom's thrown in for I guess diversity.
Do you ever do any HF work? (or can you?)

'73
Slantsixness
(in 4 land, FM18)

i'm still working on my CW, but that's all that stands between me and HF (well, i'll need a rig...) i participated in the last field day, and that rawked! i had hits on 15m with the Virgin Islands, Puerto Rico, and a really sweet contact from the radio room of the USS Missouri (The Pearl Harbor memorial ship). That was sweet.

SVT-I have my old t2 garrett if you need a second for your "TT ranger". Lemme know. It's still in good shape, but could use a freshening. No leaks that I'm aware of(wasn't smoking). And has only very minimal shaft play. O2 housing is removed (2.25" :frown: )but you can have that too if you need it.


I was thinking of using twin mitsu's actually. Should be about perfect with two feeding a 2.9 liter V-6. Almost free, too!

The Garrett is getting a rebuild from turbosunleashed with a .63 exhaust housing and an S60 compressor wheel, then it's going on my '89 C/S.

I am looking for a usable garrett for a buddy, though, PM me with a price or e-mail cobramccurdy@yahoo.com

svt..do u no how much hp u running with your cs at 15 psi..any other significant mods done to it?..thats sorta my goal..

daytona2..read pm plz

I'm not real sure. I'd guess somewhere in the 175-185HP range. Stock T-II's are supposed to be 176 HP with a smaller motor but flowing more air through a garrett turbo, and I have the TII IC setup (would like to do a dual core IC) but a tiny mitsu turbo. I also have a TAFT Stage 1 cam, and the computer is FWD-P spec tuned for 15 PSI even though the boost itself is controlled by a G-valve. It's also an auto, but it works very well with the turbo. I could get a little more HP if I switched from the super turbo muffler I have on now, but I don't want to be included with the local "domestic rice" crowd. I'll let the turbo make all the noise.

I'd like to push over 200 HP @ 18 PSI with the Garrett turbo when I get it built up. I think I have the fuel for it with +20's and an AFPR. There's a guy with a stock '93 Supra (turbo/auto) that's talking smack about my 'Stang, I'd like to hand him his azz with the 'Tona to really edumucate him.

when i slam it to the floor..it gets up to high rpms and it cuts out for a sec..then goes again. Rev limiter? I think SO...

Rev limiter? I think SO...

eww, ignition rev limiters SUCK :/ i muchly prefer fuel-cutoff limiters, where you rev up, and the computer retards the amount of fuel going to the engine to starve it down... you just drift up, and then back down, no slamming.

yeah, lean out a turbocharged engine at high RPM instead, that's the ticket!

I use MSD ignitions BECAUSE they have ignition-induced rev limits that are non-engine destructive.

If you are holding an engine agains a rev limiter you need to learn to drive and quit playing Gran Turismo. (2step users are exempt from this remark)

heh, yeah... only time i've ever felt my rev limiter has been when i wasn't paying attention to my shift points and let the car get faster then 42 in 1st or 65 in 2nd... doesn't happen much, 'cause it sucks when it does!

Rev limiter? I think SO...
i no what the rev limiter feels like..its not..its still just the fuel cutout/boost cutout that is doing it..im pretty sure..i think :smokin:

It should be similar to the 119 mph speed limiter-lose all power and boost goes to zero. Sometimes they are more violent, though.

But, is it cutout on his Jaytona?

Bowza,

Have you tried an aftermarket adjustable fuel regulator yet?

Why not?

holy crap, THIS thread is still alive? great!

hey, is your Jaytona ODB II complient? i just had a thought... if you can interface a computer with it, you can run black box programs, and WATCH to see what's killing the power. easy way to find a source- then you just have to find the problem, and the solution!

yea..very wierd how this topic is still goin..haha anyways..oddly my car has very rarely been doing it lately..so i havnt been worrying about it enough to get it fixed right away. gladly thou i had just paid off the car to my dad..and i can actually spend money on it now with the money i make..although my dad isnt 'down' for me tryin to make my car go faster cause he thinks it will be the end of me..so i think i will just have to buy parts online or something and install em myself or get em installed without him knowing(yet he gets to drive his SS el camino with so much nice handwork done to it, its not even funny :grinno: :iceslolan ..ahha..anyways thats it for now..ciao

*cough*

so... how's the car running now?


heh, i just *can't* let this thread die ;)

your stock fuel system can only support 14.7 psi of boost after that you will kill your motor
these are not bulletproof - i have killed 2 motors
you will also need bigger fuel inj. a adjustable fpr, and a bigger fuel pump along with the 3 bar and cal.
come check out www.turbododge.com

if you are hitting boost cutout, it should feel like alot of boost, then it violently shuts down for a sec. then starts going again
kinda like a miss in the engine but longer
the map tells the ecu to shutit down at 14.7 psi so you do not damage your motor.
i had the wastegate unplugged on my turbo caravan and i accidently shot to 16psi blowing a small chunk out of the top of the piston- straight through to the ring.

Gotta weigh in on this Bowza, I would bet your father has many more years driving experiance than you, I did some really dumb things driving in my teens, fortunatly none were serious enough to get me killed, always figured my guardian angle worked a lot of overtime, I have four kids, I worry everytime they get behind the wheel, I taught them best I could but like you, Dad is stupid and I know better, fortunatly no ones dead or mamed yet altought the oldest tried, rolled a 95 Mazda pickup at 70, walked away, talk about angle working overtime ..... ok off the soap box

I found a link explaining how to wire around the cat. sensors....what effect would have if you think it worked?
http://www.miragelinx.com/howto/exhaust1.htm

I found a link explaining how to wire around the cat. sensors....what effect would have if you think it worked?
http://www.miragelinx.com/howto/exhaust1.htm

what possesses you to think that this has any pertinence on the discussion at hand?

is that really an issue considering no one has had anything to say, in about 5 days.......and since there was already a forum about cats. , why not just throw it in there...

why would you want to wire around the cat?

it suppossedly turns off your little warnin light in the gauge panel if you have taken the cat. off....i was just wandering if anybody had ever heard or seen of such.

personally I don't, get a high flow cat, do your part for clean air, when you have kids you will understand my stance, I want my to be able to breath when they are older

personally about 5 months ago my cat was dented when i slid over an embankment while rounding up cattle...so as a temporary fix i just tacked a piece of pipe in ...im awaiting on shipment of a magnaflow cat currently.......and as far as future kids , do you really think a handful of cars here and there that dont have cats. is really an issue when compared to the people producing our fuel...take for instance exxon which turns out more pollution in a day than the entire car world....so what difference does it really make if i dont have a cat...and besides you drive a 1989 spirit according to your profile, which in my opinion is quite ironic if you are concerned about your kids welfare... and more than likely my kids will never have to worry about it such a dilema...and if the time does come, technology is advancing so fast that it would not be an issue

"let the future deal with it" eh? what a stupid idea. we ARE the future, to people 30 years ago... and we're dealing with the remainders of DDT, nuclear waste, millions of tons of garbage in landfills... yeah, we're taking care of it all right.

and as far as future kids , do you really think a handful of cars here and there that dont have cats. is really an issue when compared to the people producing our fuel...

YES. every. little. bit. hurts. If you were the only car that didn't have a catalytic convertor on it, it wouldn't matter much. but there are millions of cars on the road, and there are certainly plent of people who think "meh, one car can't hurt". one car doesn't hurt. but 1 car times ten thousand people DOES hurt. and as much as you'd like to think you live in your own little world, what you do affects everyone.

take for instance exxon which turns out more pollution in a day than the entire car world....

Reference please? and not some guy's website, but a .edu, or better yet a book reference to these numbers? I'm sure Exxon does turn out quite a bit of toxic waste every day- but they are also subject to rather strict EPA requirements that restrict what they can pump into the air.

besides you drive a 1989 spirit according to your profile, which in my opinion is quite ironic if you are concerned about your kids welfare

i don't see how him driving a family car has anything to do with his kid's welfare? a 4-door spirit is a relatively safe family car, that's reasonably good on gas milage, and easy to drive in bad weather. sounds like a good choice to me. You, however, ostensibly have a 2003 Dodge Ram, and a 1973 Chevy 2500 (25? i thought they hadn't added the 00 to them yet in '73). while i can't talk about the '73 much, except that i'm sure it guzzles gas, the other chevy is big, unsafe at speed in bad weather or good, and very fuel-inefficient.

and more than likely my kids will never have to worry about it such a dilema...and if the time does come, technology is advancing so fast that it would not be an issue

see the beginning of this post. and please, for what little hope your kids have, pay attention.

and one more, from a previous genious post...

is that really an issue considering no one has had anything to say, in about 5 days.......and since there was already a forum about cats. , why not just throw it in there...

oookay. Numbah one! this thread is NOT about cats, a cat, or even anything relating directly to the exhaust on a car. Numbah two! you contridicted yourself by saying that your question should be in the forum about catalytic converters, and then put it in Dodge > Nonspecific... i believe the answer here is self-explanitory.

Before you write back some middle-school flame of a reply, think about these things. Think long and hard... and then go put your hair out, your head is on fire.


*written because slantsixness isn't around to do it.*

Go Geeko !! Agree 100%, I wonder if speed freak feels that way about litter ...... but I do want to know the point about my Spirit?

haha...what a bunch of tree huggin hippies

haha...what a bunch of tree huggin hippies

sorry, but you're a fucking idiot. some of us would just rather have the place still around after they're gone.

speed freak, when you change your oil, do you just pour it down the drain? So tell me the problem with my Spirit?

We're off the subject again.
Is it cutout on his Jaytona or what?

I've been gone for awhile overseas and got back to see this darn thread still going.

Hmmm what's all this hippie and tree hugger SH!T?

I agree with pollution control, but not the "pollution control" that they have imposed on cars. There's really no point in reducing emissions more on Gasoline fueled vehicles equipped with catalyst systems. You can only go so far and reduce the emissions so much before fuel economy and power suffer the consequences of pollution controls. Alternative fuel vehicles have a better chance, but fuel cell electric vehicles are what has the best chance to keep us breathing and living here without the greenhouse gas effects, or just dropping dead and leaving the earth to the cockroaches...

Now, with that said, I will say that I have 1 "gross polluter", namely a '72 winnebago motorhome (a resto project). It's getting a fuel injection system from a 93 B250 Van, with the Cat and all the pollution goodies. The block, however is going to remain a 72 318-3 truck motor with the forged crank to avoid the "14,000LB vehicle Vs. wimpy crank syndrome" that's common in later 5.2's.

Now, if I could only find a couple extra turbos and some pipe.....

Slantsixness

Does that make me a hippie?

Hey, one more reply and we'll be at 100 for this thread! (the most replies of any Mopar thread at AF....) We should get an award! Ha!

heh. how's the FI changeover going? i've heard that those can be "fun".


"fun" meaning a brain-wasting pain in the ass.


i'm no tree hugger, but we should really leave the emissions stuff as intact as possible on our cars (unless you're doing something to REDUCE emissions.)

FI in the slant 6 is done and works perfectly as does the garrett. I have some fuel delivery crap to deal with, so the boost is lower than expected (runing out of fuel at around 3200 RPM under load). It's a sick sound, as I listen to the turbo wind up, to hear the fuel starve and the slow droning turbo unwind... wah. Need new fuel pump....

FI changeover in the motorhome will be without turbos, but It'll be next spring until that gets done.

Slantsixness

Oh, I sold the twin turbo Dart GT and the '93 DOHC 2.5L Mexican Turbo. Had to make room for the motorhome. I got more than I expected from the car and the two motors. Almost broke even!